Mohammed Rafi – Dilip Kumar – Naushad & Shakeel Badayuni = Combination Par Excellence & the Greatest Ever
By Mr D.P.BIJOOR & Mr MILIND BIJOOR
Mohd Rafi and Naushad Ali
In the year 1967 when the Colossal & Classic film Ram Aur Shyam was released, I was at my tender age of 10 and considered myself fortunate enough to witness the sheer magic of Dilip saab. The scene which really captured my mind and of course the minds of millions of fans was the song “Aaaj kee raat mere dil kee salami lele kal tere badmase diwana chala jayega shamma rahe jayegi parwana chala jaega” enacted by Dilip saab with great ease and confidence. A film I cherish all my life.
No doubt it was the sheer magic of Dilip Saab. But no less was the contribution of the other three great maestros Rafi Saab, Naushad Saab & Shakeel Baduyuni Saab. Their contribution, though not visible to the eyes, can be noticed whenever this great evergreen hit is played or heard. It sounds like pure magic pouring out and which has mesmerized millions of music lovers till date across the world. And will continue to do so for the next generation too. Truly a terrific combination of the greatest artists & performers which the film industry has ever seen
We are all aware that the great singers like Mukesh, Talat Mahmood, Manna Dey, Hemant Kumar and Mahendra Kapoor have all sung great songs under the baton of Naushad saab. But in how many films? Mukesh sang for films Anokhee Ada, Mela, Andaz, Sathi, Talat Mahmood for Babul, Aadmi & Love & God, Manna Dey for Mother India, Shabab & Love & God, Mahendra Kapoor for Sohoni Mahiwal & Aadmi & Hemant Kumar for solo song in Ganga-Jamuna & a duet with Lata Mangeshkar for the film Shabab. The list is not that exhaustive.
But with our beloved Mohammed Rafi Sahab, the entire picture changes. He has sung with his magical, honeyed, soothing voice for almost 41 films comprising approximately 149 songs under the music baton of Naushad saab.
DILIP KUMAR THE TRUE THESPIAN
Dilip Kumar alias Yususf Khan who was born on 11th December 1922 at Peshawar is undoubtedly one of the greatest actors the Indian Screen has ever produced. He started his film career in the year 1944 with the film “Jwar Bhata” and almost retired in the year 1998 with the film “Qila”
A flourishing career spanning almost 54 long years he was associated in almost 62 films and in the vicinity having won 8 Filmfare Awards for his excellence coupled with 19 nominations to his credit. He still holds the unique record of winning the coveted Filmfare trophy for the most times in the best actor category i.e. 8 times which comprises almost 13% as compared to his total films and 19 nominations which comprises almost 31%. Indeed an incredible & unbreakable average/percentage of all times.
Awards:
8 Filmfare Awards
- Daag in the year 1954
- Azaad in the year 1956
- Devdas in the year 1957
- Naya Daur in the year 1958
- Kohinoor in the year 1961
- Leader in the year 1965
- Ram aur Shyam in the year 1968
- Shakti in the year 1983
Other Posts & Awards
- Sheriff of Mumbai in the year 1980
- Padma Bhushan in the year 1991
- Filmfare Life-Time Achievement in the year 1993
- Dadasaheb Phalke Award in the year 1994
- NTR National Award in the year 1997
- Nishan-e-Pakistan in the year 1997
- CNN-IBN Indian of the year – Lifetime Achievement Award in the year 2009
SHAKEEL BADAYUNI THE TRUE CURATOR
Shakeel Badayuni was born on 3rd August 1916 at Badayun, Uttar Pradesh. His inclination towards poetry was not hereditary like the other shayars. Since one of his distant relative Zia-Ul-Qadiri Badayun was a religious shayar, Shakeel was influenced by him and the contemporary environment of Badayun led him to Sher-o-Shayari.
Shakeel Sahab had an altogether different taste – his poetry was more often not romantic and close to heart. He always used to say:
“Main Shakeel Dil Ka Hoon Tarjuma
Keh Mohabbaton Ka Hoon Raazdaan
Mujhe Fakr Hai Meri Shayari
Meri Zindagi Se Juda Nahin”
His first film was “Dard” with Naushad in the year 1947 produced by A.R.Kardar and the songs of this film proved to be very successfully especially the song sung by Uma Devi (Tun Tun) and the words were “Afsana Likh Rahi Hoon”
Only few are so lucky that they attain success in their very first film but Shakeel Sahab deserved success which started with Dard and thereafter continued on over for several years.
3 Filmfare Awards
- 1961 – Chaudhvin Ka Chand – Ravi
- 1962 – Gharana – Ravi
- 1963 – Bees Saal Baad – Hemant Kumar
Shakeel Sahab penned numbers for almost 89 films approximately and in addition wrote many popular ghazals which are still popular. He shared a very close friendship with Naushad, Ravi and Ghulam Mohammed. Shakeel Badayuni ultimately succumbed to chronic Diabetes complications at the age of 53 years on 20th April 1970.
RAFI & NAUSHAD THE SUPERLATIVES
In the year 1944 with the film Pahele Aap and with the song “Hindusthan ke hum Hindusthan hamara” was the first hindi song of Rafi Sahab with Naushad. But before this song under the music supervision of Shyam Sunder Rafi had sung “Ajee dil ho kabu mein tho dildarki ho aaisee taisee” from the film Gaon Kee Goree and in fact this song was actually recorded before the song from Pahele Aap but since Gaon Kee Goree was released later in the year 1945 it was considered that the song from Pahele Aap was Rafi Sahab’s first ever hindi film song.
In the same film “Pehele Aap” the other couple of songs which Rafi Sahab sang were “Tum Delhi mein aagaye mere dil se nikale hai” and “Bekhabar jag jara, kiskee aulad hai”. In all these 3 songs Shyamkumar the then actor/singer of those times had also lent his voice.
Mohd Rafi and Naushad Ali
After “Pehele Aap” Naushad & Rafi came together in the titan film “Anmol Ghadi” (1946) with the master-piece rendition “Tera Khilona toota balak tera khilona toota” which can be considered as Rafi Sahab’s first solo song under the music supervision of Naushad. In the year 1948 with the film “Mela” the superlative composition “Ye zindagee ke mele duniya mein kam na honge afsos hum na honge” and in the year 1949 with the 3 films namely “Chandni Raat”, “Dillagi” and “Dulari” where Rafi Sahab was on the platform singing for the heroes of these films. In the first 2 films namely Chandni Raat & Dillagi the hero was Shyamkumar whereas in the third film Dulari the hero was Suresh. Who on earth can ever forget the great songs “Dil ho unhe mubarak jo dilko dhundthe hai” from Chandni Raat and “Tere kuche mein armanonkee duniya leke aaya hoon” and “Iss duniya mein dilwalon dil ka lagan khel nahee” from the film Dillagi and the superlative song “Suhani Raat dhal chukee na jane tum kab aaogee” from the film Dulari.
It was in the year 1947 that Rafi Sahab started singing for the Thespian Dilip Kumar in the film “Jugnu”, followed by “Shahid” with music by Gulam Haider and “Nadiya ke Paar” with music by C Ramchandra. However the actual start of this greatest combination started with the gigantic film “Deedar” in the year 1951 and thereafter the voice of Rafi Saab automatically became the voice of the Tragedy King Dilip Kumar. Who can ever forget the great and unforgettable melodies from the sheer voice of Rafi Sahab and the melodramatic role enacted by Dilip Kumar from the film Deedar? “Meree kahani bhulne wale tera jahan aabad rahe”
After the stupendous success of Deedar it was Mehboob Khan’s “Aan” in the year 1952 and what great songs the film carried. “Muhobbat chume jinke haath jawani paon pade din raat”, “Dil mein chupake pyaar ka toofan le chale hum aaj apne maut ka samaan le chale”, “Maan mera ehsan arre nadan ke maine tujhase kiya hai pyaar” and “Dil ko huwa tumse Pyaar”
In the year 1955 it was another milestone “Udan Khatola” produced by Naushad himself. (The other 2 films which were produced by Naushad were “Babul” (1950) and “Maalik” 1958 with music score by Ghulam Mohammed). The super hit renditions were “Muhobbat ke rahonpe chalna sambhal ke yahan jo bhee aaya gaya haath malke”, “Oh dhoor ke musafir humko bhee saath le le re hum rahe gaye akele” and “Na toofanse khelo na saahil se khelo mere paas aawo mere dil se khelo”.
Dawn the year 1960 and it was “Kohinoor” with superlative compositions by Naushad Miya and to be precise a few of the songs were “Madhuban mein radhika nache re giridhar kee muraliya beje re”, “Do sitaronka zameen par hai Milan aaj kee raat sari duniya najar aati hai dulhan aaj kee raat” and “Koyee pyaar kare pankha pasare jara mankee kiwadiya khol saaiyan tore aage khade”
The year 1961 brought forth a colossal film by Dilip Kumar himself in the sheer form of “Gunga Jamuna” and the song “Nain lada gayeen hai manawama khatak hoyee bekaree” became a stupendous hit. Rise the year 1964 and it was yet another gem in the form of “Leader” in which the songs were super duper hits for e.g. “Apnee azadi ko hum hargiz mita sakhte nahee”, “Hamee se mohabbat hamee se ladayee arre maar dala duhayee duhayee” and “Mujhe duniya walon sharabi na samjho main pita nahi pilayee gayee hai”
“Dil Diya Dard Liya” was yet another milestone when it came to the melodies in the film concerned. “Dilruba maine tere pyaar mein kya kya na kiya”, “Gujare hai aaj ishka mein hum uss makam se”, Koyee sagar dil ko behelata nahin”. Dawn the year 1967 and it was the fluent classic namely “Ram Aur Shyam” in totality my own base film. The songs in this film were terrific “Ayee hai baharen mite julma sitam”, “Aaj kee raat mere dil kee salami le le”
The year 1968 brought 2 great films namely “Aadmi” and “Sanghursh” and the compositions were superlative: “Na Aadmi ka koyee bharosa na dosti ka koyee tikhana”, “Aaj puranee rahonse koyee mujhe awaz na de” and “Main tootee huwee ek naiyya hoon mujhe chahe jidar le jawo” from the film Aadmi.
“Jab dil se dil takarata hai”, “Mere paironme ghungroo pehena de tho phir meree chala dekh le” and “Ishka diwana husnbhi ghayal” from the film Sanghursh
Starting in the year 1948 from the film Mela to Andaz, Babul, Deedar, Aan, Amar, Kohinoor, Mughal-e-Azam, Ganga Jamuna, Leader, Dil Diya Dard Liya, Ram Aur Shyam, Aadmi and Sanghursh etc were Dilip Kumar films with music by Naushad. In almost all these films Rafi’s voice was definitely there but in Mela, Babul, Andaz, Amar & Mughal-e-Azam it was not picturized on Dilip Kumar. In Mela & Andaz Mukesh had sung for Dilip Kumar, whereas in Babul it was Talat Mehmood. In Mughal-e-Azam the song “Zindabad Zindabad” was picturized on the character artiste M Kumar whereas the song “Insaaf ka Mandir hai ye Bhagwan ka ghara hai” was a background score. Similarly in the film Babul Talat Mehmood sang “Chod Babul Ka Ghar” initially and immediately thereafter the death scene of Nargis the lovely & soothing aalap was sung by Rafi Saab.
It was from the year 1951 to 1968 between these 17 long years the master blaster Naushad Miya never ever thought of utilizing any other voice than that of Rafi Sahab exclusively for the Thespian Dilip Kumar with enjoyable and evergreen lyrics by Shakeel Badayuni.
“Shakeel Badayuni would dearly pen down the great notations/words in the form of sheer lyrics, Naushad would beautifully weave these golden words/lyrics into immortal compositions, Mohammed Rafi would at his ease & ever best recite the compositions in his incomparable velvet touch of class and Dilip Kumar would create magic of these renditions on the silver screen/celluloid with great ease”
The combination has bagged total 18 Filmfare Awards with Dilip Kumar winning the highest 8 awards followed by Rafi Sahab with 6 awards, Naushad with solo 1 award for “Baiju Bawra” and Shekeel Badayuni claiming 3 awards.
Friends I for one always consider myself to be an ordinary mortal who can never ever visualize the unforgettable & tremendous contribution put forth by each one of these immortal legends and probably YES may be the actual reason as to why I consider this combination as the Greatest Greatest Ever!!!
haldar ji
thanks for the post. the nayyar argument is the most potent argument against blind lata fans and i am not the first one who have used that. not only salil, i have heard that anil biswas once said that he did not consider rafi a singer. so far as c. ramchandra is concerned he acknowledged the worth of rafi, but he could not use him more because he had a very sweet relationship with lata. she treated madan mohan as brother and also tried to influence him, but he refused to be guided by her in professional matters and the result is for everybody to see.
i would like to respond to one para of yours in post 39, which is given below for remberance:
“Among the big three, there was only one star who really understood music. Unfortunately, it was not Dilip, though I’d say he was better than the one who can’t differentiate between a geet and a ghazal and keep saying that “kishore was his voice”. Fortunately for him, Dada had the power to veto his choices and that’s you have some of the best Rafi songs from 1958 till 1967.”
i know you are a true fan of rafi and sdb and so am i. so far as your comment about music sense of the trio is concerned, i would say that all had better music sense than you or me, because of their long association with film industry. what is the use of raj kapoor’s music sense if he ignores the greatest playback singer of all times. some might say he really believed mukesh was his voice. that is bull-shit. rafi proved that he could adapt his voice to suit every actor, this fact should have been known to raj kapoor of the great music sense. yet he did not try even to mix it up. he might have used rafi more on other characters. he used manna dey in chori chori when mukesh was not available.
but, the most important thing which i want to point out is the sheer untruthfulness of your statement that dev anand thought kk was his voice and dada had the guts to stop him. the truth is quite opposite sdb was the only reason kk ultimately came to be set as dev’s voice. you will remember that i had raised the double standards of sdb’s behaviour towards rafi in the thread ‘did rd burman really preferred kk over rafi’. you read my posts and responded so you know the facts stated by me then. for those who do not know them i would advise them to read my relevant posts nos 743, 749 and 847 and the other related posts of others including haldar ji.
i had showed sdb’s figures for both rafi and kk by bifurcating them in 3 time zones to show sdb’s maltreatment of rafi. those figures i am giving below:
sdb’s figures for rafi are
– out of 33 films upto 1956 rafi got a meagre 7 (2 solos) songs
– out of 30 films from 1957 to 1965 rafi got 73 (45 solos) songs
– out of 26 films from 1966 onwards rafi got only 13 (3 solos) songs
sdb’s figures for kishore are
– upto 1956 kishore got 21 (11 solos) songs
– from 1957 to 1965 he got 35 (15 solos) songs
– from 1966 onwards he got 60 (29 solos) songs
kk was out of sdb’s recording room, except for those films where he was the hero for 7 years from 1958 to 1964. kk figures for middle period include 7 songs given to him in 2 films in 1957 and 5 songs given to him in 2 films in 1965.
my figures make it clear that sdb maltreated rafi once he had made up with kk and after he had used rafi for launching of his nalayak son in teesri manzil.
i would give further figures to prove that it was not dev who insisted on kk but it was sdb who was trying to fix kk as voice of dev. if we peruse dev anand’s first 46 films till 1957 we find that kks voice was used in 10 films and out of them sdb composed music for 9. the 10th was tamasha in which there was just one song for kk and the reason for that was that kk was himself the actor and that song was picturised on him. sdb gave music for one more film afsar, but that was suraiyya dominated film and there was no scope for kk.
it is amazing that dev anand did not tell any of the mds of the remaining 36 films that kk was his voice. whenever he came face to face with sdb only then he remembered that kk was his voice. there is also circumstancial evidence that initially dev refused to let sdb use kk on him, that is why sdb used hemant for jaal, and house no 44 and talat for taxi driver simply to avoid rafi’s voice being set on dev (at least in the recording rooms of sdb).
between nau do gyarah the last film when kk went out and teen devian and guide when kk finally returned, there were 21 films in which dev acted. sdb gave music for just 4 and the remaining films had music by other mds. dev anand did not insist on kk to them also. finally kk went on to use rdb for his purpose and the combined attack of both father and son finally forced dev to use kk on him. even after 65 dev allowed other mds to use rafi for him in films like pyar mohabbat, kahin aur chal and duniya.
so these facts show that the truth is not what you claim. i hope you will change your view.
post 90:
You said: “if a singer had such influence on the commercial success of the movie, producers would have paid the singer more, not a few hundred bucks.”
Where do you get your facts from? Lata and Rafi were making Rs. 5,000 per song in the 60s when it was worth more than Rs. 5 lakh in today’s money. Read Walijah saab’s article on the Dosti song and you’ll realise how small producers were apprehensive about approaching Rafi. Because of his generous nature, he used to waive the money off when they couldn’t afford it. He even used to offer the fees he used to get to new md’s.
I’m afraid that someone who keeps saying that music didn’t matter in the success of hindi films does not really have a full grasp of the facts. The mds, lyricists, singers and music arrangers all played a big role. In fact, before a film was released, a couple of songs were given to the distributors for publicity.
You are a Dilip Kumar fan; I also love his acting. Why don’t you create a website in his honour and write articles on him to present your views, like we do here? See how many takers you get.
This site attracts so many people, including people in their 20’s and 30’s. People somehow find it difficult to believe his popularity, more than 30 years after he has left us, remains intact. In an MTV survey done over five years back, youngsters rated Rafi as their No. 1 favourite. Some FM channels, especially during the late hours, devote entire hours of programming to Rafi’s songs.
Unlike some people on this form, who keep taking cheap shots at me — though I haven’t said a single word against them — I love all Rafians, though I may not necessarily agree with them always. This is one big tent and we shouldn’t promote internal divisions. In that spirit, I’d request you both — toufique bhai and hans ji — not to unnecessarily extend this debate.
Regards,
P. Haldar
abhishek ji
‘ignorance of law is no excuse’ does not apply here. that would mean that everybody has to know the endless information available in the world. trying to apply that here would be childish. that is just about applicable in crimes or offences committed in society. if you commit a murder or rape or grab somebody’s property you cannot go to court saying i did not know the law about it. suppose a child goes in the first grade and the teacher asks him about who was newton and punishes him if he doesnt tell giving the reason you have mentioned. i hope you understand that.
so far as bade ghulam ali khan is concerned i know about him what you may know. i was giving an argument to a person who was demeaning rafi. i did not mean disrespect to either bade ghulam ali khan or dilip. believe me i am a fan of dilip so much so that i have enjoyed most of his films from andaz till the end. the only ones i did not watch were hulchul, sangdil, shikast, footpath, insaniyat, musafir and sagina and that is simply because i could not lay my hands on them. of the 10 films prior to andaz i have watched jugnu, shaheed and mela.
my criticism of dilip was to irritate toufique which i have achieved. so far as my comment on these stalwarts of music that they have dynastic tradition is concerned, is true in most of the cases. in fact in indian society there have been this bad behaviour of gurus towards their chelas in the matter of transferring knowledge in every field if he is not one of his dynasty has been the cause of a lot of material info being lost. i dont know whether you are ignorant about such matters, but i will not accuse you if you dont know, because i dont believe in the applicability of the maxim ‘ignorance of law is no excuse’ in other matters.
Hans ji wrote in post 95:
“anil biswas was in hfm since the mid 30s, c. ramchandra since early 40s and salil came almost simultaneously with op nayyar. but any of them could not dislodge naushad from no. 1 spot how hard they tried because they hated rafi. the fact that they used your greatest lata of the 50s did not matter.”
Truer words have not been said. This is the Bengal-Nagpur Railway (BNR) axis I’ve been referring to. What hatred they had towards Rafi! Salil is the worst; used him for such beautiful songs and then used every opportunity to undermine him. As for OP, Rafi saab himself summed it up well: “Yun to hum ne lakh composer dekhe hai, tumsa nahin dekha”.
Hans ji,
“common people like me are not concerned who sings malkauns better. such things are for great people like you. i only know that commoners have never heard even the names of the likes of bade ghulam ali khan, but, rafi’s songs have entertained one and all through decades. most of these musical stalwarts have kept dynastic control on such titles.”
This is ridiculous. It is like criticising one’s parent straight, who had provided direction to the child. Bade ghulam ali khan was guru of rafi saheb. It is none other than a great surprise if identity is recognised for the single individual without giving importance to the entity which has provided a platform/direction for such individual. If one does not know that it means : ignorance of law is no excuse.
post 90 contd..
“producers would have paid the singer more, not a few hundred bucks”
lata had demanded share in royalty and if rafi had not declined to collaborate with her, they would have got more share such was there clout. you can very well bath in your ignorance. rafi and lata in later times got 25000 for each song of 3-5 minutes.
“Dilip got filmfare nomination for best actor”
use some better arguments. everybody knows the reality of the awards whether it is filmfare or bharat ratna or any other award. ‘jai ho’ got oscar for the best music and song, but the whole golden era of 50s to 70s went unnoticed by oscars.
“You wrote ‘both came to limelight together.’ The timing may be the same, but not the extent”
this i had written in reply to your argument that dilip was already number one when rafi came, but you are so shameless that you are still persisting in your falsehoods. in jugnu rafi sang two songs, search for the second. and dilip’s acting was just pedestrian. about noorjehan i would say i am not a great fan of her acting or singing though see had given some good songs. still she was a big star and that tells about the reality of our film industry, propaganda works and that is why dilip and amitabh are hyped so much.
“Another important figure is mehboob khan, the producer/director – who was probably the most influential person in the 1940-60 era (had immense impact on naushad and dilip’s career – so indirectly on rafi’s career).”
use some brains for research and you will find mehboob khan doesnt fit in your assertions, unless you agree to my view that aan gave number one status to both dilip and rafi. mehboob did not use naushad before 1946 and they had just 7 films together of which dilip acted in 3 (andaz, aan and amar). rafi had 3 solos and 1 duet in aan and 1 solo in amar. if you add to that 3 solos and 5 duets in anmol ghadi, mother india and son of india (the last 2 films were post aan when you agree rafi was number one).
“That’s because rafi depended too much on naushad.”
now you are talking like a shit-head. my argument was just to show that everybody got his first film. now you are using that brainlessly for your ulterior motives. naushad used him for just 120 songs, who gave rafi other thousands of songs. i would say the reverse is true naushad depended on rafi more. initially he made rafi stand in chorus in pehle aap and shahjehan and in the initial 5 years he gave him just two songs ( 1 solo each in anmol ghadi and mela) before giving him 1 solo and two duets in dulari. it was naushad’s compulsions and rafi’s talent which forced him to take the services of rafi. more than shammi rafi himself acknowledged naushad’s influence on his career.
i have great respect for naushad’s music, but, let me ask one question, if naushad was such a music god why did not he create another rafi in his long illustrious career. so stop your bullshit which is clearly directed at demeaning rafi. there were many great and successful mds in the golder era of hfm but there was only one rafi and that tells the whole story.
“did dilip ever blame rafi? If dilip is such a non-entiry, why do you guys cry for dilip’s recognition of rafi. Does rafi need that? No. but you guys are actually belittling rafi.”
yes dilip did not blame rafi, but, you could have told this to those who attacked dilip instead of attacking rafi. we are not belittling rafi it is just your insane imagination which goads you on to believe this. it is the persons like you who are trying and it is the duty of every rafi lover to show you the mirror.
“false, simply because 1950s belong to lata, she was incomparable – anil biswas, c ramchandra, salil, roshan, sdb, sj – everyone relied on lata that time. Lata had more songs in dilip or rajkapoor’s movies – and those movies were not female dominated.”
i have a doubt whether you have a brain at all. female dominated just means more songs were composed for female characters in the film. i gave you figures show this, which you have failed to understand because you does not have a brain.
anil biswas was in hfm since the mid 30s, c. ramchandra since early 40s and salil came almost simultaneously with op nayyar. but any of them could not dislodge naushad from no. 1 spot how hard they tried because they hated rafi. the fact that they used your greatest lata of the 50s did not matter. but, op nayyar, who hated lata, floored naushad totally in 3 years by 1957 with musical hits starting from aar paar(54), mr mrs 55(55), cid(56), tumsa nahin dekha and naya daur(57) and that despite naushad having a blockbuster like mother india in 1957. nayyar was a total rafi man then but did not have lata and that was in 50s when you say lata was supreme. then rafi mds like sj, ravi, madan mohan, roshan took over.
the rest of your post is not related to rafi so i will not reply. it is otherwise also futile to re-argue (i have given my arguments and you have nothing new in your reply) with useless people like you.
post 90
my last posts were kept mild in tone with a hope that you would realise your mistake, but you have continued in the same vein and repeating falsehoods. so i am free to use some harsh terms.
“What do you mean by ‘latent ill-feeling’ for rafi and a ‘willingness to malign’ him?”
i think there is nothing latent in my statement and the meaning is crystal clear.
“So you can’t judge me.”
But, you can judge rafi and all other legends.
“Obsessions lead to misleading observations or conclusions”
That is very true in your case. your obsession with dilip have led you to attempt maligning of legends.
“On YouTube, you can find comments like rafi sang malkauns better than bade gulam Ali khan.”
common people like me are not concerned who sings malkauns better. such things are for great people like you. i only know that commoners have never heard even the names of the likes of bade ghulam ali khan, but, rafi’s songs have entertained one and all through decades. most of these musical stalwarts have kept dynastic control on such titles.
“If you see the opening or end credit of a film, you can see how much importance are given to singers.”
your effort in searching for arguments for belittling the role of singers shows to what an extent you may go in propagating your theories. when rafi’s impact on films is mentioned you talk the insignificance of singers’ role, but you readily acknowledge lata’s impact on a film in your post. so far as credits are concerned, i doubt if anybody watches them. but, i remember that in old days when a film was being shown in a cinema hall, the cinema people used to advertise with the help of posters loaded on various types of vehicles and records of the songs of the film were played.
in indian films there have always been vital role of music and its success or failure depended on music and that is why the trend of paying share in royalty started.
“dilip became number one in 1948, he did not need rafi. He was number one until 1963.”
neither did rafi need dilip for being no. 1. on what basis you claim that dilip became no. 1 in 1948 and remained so till 1963. there are so many claims and counter-claims in film industry that you cannot come to a conclusion. trio dev anand was certainly people’s choice, whose films made the most money. amitabh’s chamchas kept claiming no. 1 spot while all his films were coming face down and meanwhile dharmendra’s films were doing good business, but he never came to be known as number 1 at any point of time.
“But if a singer has songs in the number one star’s movie, he gets more attention.”
so you want to say that rafi gained attention on the handful of songs in dilip’s films and the thousands of songs on other minor heroes, which are heard even today had marginal impact. was bharat bhushan a star before baiju bawra or was he made one due to the film. meena kumari was an also ran before that film.
“ram aur shyam was hit because of dilip. The main drawback was music. After ganga jamuna, naushad could not generate any good album for dilip.”
the bijoors have started there article with ‘aaj ki raat mere dil ki’ and you say music was drawback in that film. there were a number of rafi songs which were on the lips of every commoner in those days. you have in your mad obsession for dilip started demeaning naushad also about whom you say you have every tune with you. you have become shameless in propagating dilip. in every film of the 5 for which naushad gave music after ganga jamna the music was top class. they failed because of dilip and only dilip.
“you can check the box-office report online.”
these reports are made sitting in ac rooms by people like you. if you need i can give you examples of gross blunders. mera saya was a total flop but still it is shown at number 17 in 60s list and better than dosti, ek phool do mali, guide, arzoo to name a few. in the yearly lists only 20 films per year are listed when there had been at times between 200 to 400 films released per year.
“Radio had been there for the whole period”
ask some old timer and improve your gk which is very poor. you can know by googling when radia ceylon or vividh bharti started service dedicated to songs. in the initial years radio was very rarely available in cities, what to talk of villages.
contd..
Mr Vitthal,
“what do you have to say on the films of leading actors which failed at the box office, but the songs are huge hit from the film?” – that doesn’t contradict my point. that means the film’s success is independent of the success of its songs. sholay can be a classic example – average score, but a highest grosser. in the post 1990 period this has become pretty common.
“similarly, there are instances, where the film became hit due to musical scores – this is also a exception.” – rattan, anmol ghadi, baijubawara, barsat or ashiqui from the 1990s. for a musical the main credit goes to the music director. for baijibawra, bhat (the director/producer) had dilip in mind. but naushad insisted casting a lower ranked star. his fear was that a leading star can divert the focus from music.
“my view is combination of many factors contribute to success of the film, though it is agreed that the main character of the film has a much bigger role in success of the film.” – true, that’s what i’m saying. and given the role of the play-back singers they have less influence on the success of the film (compared to director, actor/actress, music director, screenwriter and cinematographer).
if we look at Talat’s career we see that, Talat lost naushad he lost his career. talat was still getting songs from sajjad, c ramchandra, anil, salil, or even sj – but he lost the race because he did not have naushad on his side – he lost the big banner.
anil and mehboob were regular collaborators in there initial days. in the early 1940s, mehboob offered anil a long term contract which anil refused. mehboob then approached naushad. naushad accepted the contract with the proviso that he would be allowed to score outside mehboob’s banner. anil created some good music in the 1944-55 period but could never be a threat to the number uno naushad.
toufique ji,
What do you have to say on the films of leading actors which failed at the box office , but the songs are huge hit from the film ?
Similarly, there are instances, where the film became hit due to musical scores – this is also a exception.
My view is combination of many factors contribute to success of the film, though it is agreed that the main character of the film has a much bigger role in success of the film.
my dearest rafi sahab fans/bhakts,
i am simply amazed at the length ( number of words used ) of some of the comments made, well surpassing an article and yet sadly expressed which may not be read and followed by all.
i do not wish to mention names but in this very same thread there are a few who are capable of moving one and all to sheer joy and tears – if they channelised their engergies and thoughts towards a singular subject.
unfortunately they write long spiraling comments and in the process getting entangled in most unfortunate arguments and counter arguments.
this dedicated rafi sahab webiste needs young minds to centralise their energies into positive – creative – meaningful – purposeful writing in this endless nectar called music – and the music of yester years of the 40’s 50’s and 60’s has it in abundance.
i urge the youth who visit this site to contribute constructively with a thought provoking ARTICLE on our singing avataar rafi sahab.
if one sincerely sits down with rafi sahab in the mind – the thoughts and feeling will be endless and could keep pouring days on end.
here’s wishing all fans/bhakts to come forward and write highly impressionable articles.
with a lot of warmth and love for music,
ramesh narain kurpad
“Rafi had a big influence on dilip’s career which is undoubtedly true.” – the reverse is not only truth, but also a fact. What do you mean by ‘latent ill-feeling’ for rafi and a ‘willingness to malign’ him? Respect, love and preference are things that one can’t measure. So you can’t judge me. May be I like rafi more than you do, or maybe you like rafi more than I do – it’s inconclusive. But to be obsessed with someone is not something that can be appreciated very much. Obsessions lead to misleading observations or conclusions. On YouTube, you can find comments like rafi sang malkauns better than bade gulam Ali khan. Rafi himself would have been ashamed if he heard something like this.
“nobody ever claimed that every film with rafi’s songs was a hit, yet rafi was the biggest impact on hfm”. You did not get what I wrote. Rafi is the most influential singer. In a film, stars (actors/actresses), director and music director play much greater roles than a singer. If you see the opening or end credit of a film, you can see how much importance are given to singers. See the opening credit of baijubawra, and check how rafi’s name appear there. That’s true for all singers. It doesn’t matter if it is rafi or lata or asha – the singers’ job is such that in a film they are much less important.
As I said, dilip became number one in 1948, he did not need rafi. He was number one until 1963. Rafi was number one until 1969. Dilip’s reign ended before rafi’s. if rafi had the power, dilip could still be number one. rafi (or a singer) doesn’t have that power. But if a singer has songs in the number one star’s movie, he gets more attention. One can’t ride on a dara sing, you need a dilip/raj/dev. Leader and bairag were flops for dilip, ram aur shyam was hit because of dilip. The main drawback was music. After ganga jamuna, naushad could not generate any good album for dilip. Leader, dil diya dard liya, sunghursh, aadmi – the songs were not very popular (that doesn’t mean they were bad).
‘it is a miracle that leader and gopi were semi-hits as per your terminology’ – not as per my terminology, you can check the box-office report online. Personally, I don’t like any of those films.
‘ram aur shyam became a hit just because of the theme of the film’ – you are not giving credits to dilip. He pulled the movie alone (in an interview, waheeda rehman told that).
“of the six flop films sagina did not have a single rafi song, while dastan had one song and bairaag had 3 duets. by now due to radio the success of songs had almost delinked from the film, so all the great songs of rafi remained hits, while not so great films of dilip failed.” – so now it’s radio! That’s funny. Radio had been there for the whole period. people went to the movies to see the movie stars. Not to hear rafi’s song. if a singer had such influence on the commercial success of the movie, producers would have paid the singer more, not a few hundred bucks. It’s a very simple equation: price reflects one’s importance/contribution/work-value.
‘‘in fact, of the trio of dilip, raj and dev dilip gave his last hit in l967 and raj in 1964 and only dev continued to provide hits for a long time and was rightly called the evergreen hero. actually raj and dilip (to say in hindi) ne bahut se producers ki lutiya dubo dee apne aakhri dinon men.’’ Raj and dev had their own production houses (dilip produced one movie). So they were always in the limelight. Let’s look at ‘post-ganga jamuna’ dilip (until 1976). Dilip got filmfare nomination for best actor for Leader (won), Dil Diya Dard Liya, Ram Aur Shyam (won), Sunghursh, Aadmi, Gopi, Sagina and Bairaag – so it looks like dilip did his job just fine. When dil diya dard liya flopped, dilip did not take his fee (it was a r karder’s film).
In jugnu (dilip’s 4th movie) rafi sang a duet with noorjehan. And you are giving too much credit to a duet. Noorjehan had some great solos. She was a bigger star than dilip but if u see the movie, you will know that this boy can act and that girl just can’t act. You wrote ‘both came to limelight together.’ The timing may be the same, but not the extent. Dilip’s performance outshone noorjahan in the movie. If she was not an actor-singer like siagal, she could never be a star. ‘careers of both rafi and dilip progressed almost simultaneously’ – true but almost independent of each other until deedar (1951) – when dilip was already the number one. rafi became number one in 1952, after simultaneous success of baijubawra and aan. Another important figure is mehboob khan, the producer/director – who was probably the most influential person in the 1940-60 era (had immense impact on naushad and dilip’s career – so indirectly on rafi’s career).
‘so far as naushad’s dumping is concerned it can be said for everybody.’ That’s because rafi depended too much on naushad. Naushad shaped the singer rafi we know (even shammi kapoor says that). Naushad was equally succesfull with karder/mehboob/sunny and with or without rafi, dilip gave hits with mehboob/sunny/amiya and others and with or without rafi. Rafi had to wait until 1952. Even in naushad’s own production babul (1950), rafi virtually got no song. ‘he was not the one who had blamed dilip, then why you dragged him.’ – did dilip ever blame rafi? If dilip is such a non-entiry, why do you guys cry for dilip’s recognition of rafi. Does rafi need that? No. but you guys are actually belittling rafi.
Naushad considered mughal-e-azam as his best creation. Now you tell me how much role did rafi play (compared to lata)? Zindabad is probably the worst song of the movie. That movie did not become a hit for zindabad. In mela, mukesh was the lead singer. That one title song by rafi did not make the movie hit. That’s more true for yahudi. Those songs had minimum impact on the movies’ success. In mughal e azam and amar dilip did not need any song to show his acting prowess. “your analogy of without rafi on lip is just hollow when you see the impact of songs like ‘zindabad-2? ‘aana hai to aa’ ‘ye duniya ye duniya’ ‘ye zindagi ke mele’ on those films.” Since its dilip-rafi, rafi’s song on dilip’s lip made more sense to me. Since you are not concerned if the song is on dilip’s lip or not, let me tell you one thing, in all of dilip’s movies – lata had a much greater role than rafi.
‘why he composed more songs for lata, because some of the films were totally female dominated and it was the director who gave situations for songs and not naushad’s decision for whom he would compose. ’ false, simply because 1950s belong to lata, she was incomparable – anil biswas, c ramchandra, salil, roshan, sdb, sj – everyone relied on lata that time. Lata had more songs in dilip or rajkapoor’s movies – and those movies were not female dominated. In the 1960s rafi relatively got more song than lata. But in the 1950s, it was lata all the way. And everyone knows that naushad lost his number one status in early 1960s.
“here also no force in your argument of 21 hits till baijubawra and 8 hits later because till 1952 naushad had given music for 33 films and after that till the end of 60s he gave music for only 19 films.” Look at the percentage and you will know what I meant. So your counter argument doesn’t stand.
“the above statement was made by you in reply to post 29 in which kn kumar had just mentioned these names with an etc. added and he had not said anything against dilip. i am surprised why you chose to demean these actors. it means you will target anybody whose name is taken along with dilip.” Demeaning? That’s what you are doing. Prithbiraj or ashok cant be compared to dilip. Who follows Prithbiraj/ashok’s acting style? No one. because it doesn’t work in film.
“about prithviraj, tell us how you think he was theatrical and where did you see him acting in theaters. i have not seen his earlier films but he was simply superb in historical roles in sikander, sikander-e-azam, rustom sohrab and also mughle-azam in which he gave a much better performance than dilip.” Looks like you like theatrical acting.
“about ashok you have not said when his later years started. we know his ‘kismat’ broke all records and that surely was not his later film nor was ‘mahal’. he was known for his natural acting style, which was not the case with dilip whose acting looked forced because he tried to be too methodical. motilal told him that on the sets of devdas. ashok never tried to overact like dilip. there is such a long list of top films both in lead role as well as as character actor that it will far outnumber dilip. he provided a lot of variety in his roles. in bandini he was 52 but he did not look rotten like dilip in his last years as hero.” Dilip’s aan was the highest grossing film ever for 3 years and muhgal e azam was the highest grossing film for 15 years. As a character actor, dilip gave much bigger hits (kranti, vidhata, karma, shakti, saudagar). If you don’t like method acting that’s different. but it’s really funny when someone compares marlon brando and cary grant or Humphrey bogart with Claude Rains. Nasiruddin shah is a better actor than dilip or amitabh – let alone ashok or prithi. But he is not a hero, he is a character actor (same is balraj). The movies that you mentioned ‘do bigha jamin’ and ‘kabuliwala’ were bimol ray’s films. He did not pick sahani for madhumati, devdas or yahudi. Why? Even nasir thinks dilip is better than amitabh. Except, probably, dev anand, everyone accepts that dilip has been the greatest actor to grace the Indian screen. For rafi (in the singing arena), more than 50% would say the opposite.
‘i would say dilip has got too much hype just like amitabh.’ That can be said for everyone. But dilip is not hyped. He is leading a kind of retired lifestyle.
“try to see a dilip film and hear a rafi song simultaneously and you may find yourself mesmerised by the rafi song before dilip would open his mouth for delivering his dialogue (yes he took so much time which was also the speciality of his brand ambassador manoj).” Here you tried to demean dilip. I listen to songs, I don’t watch songs. When I watch a hindi movie, I fast forward the songs. Dilip’s pause was famous and that’s part of good acting – just see amar. He acted worse in later films (though better than most actors). On youtube you can see videos where BR Chopra and Amitabh are talking about dilip’s pause. Your comment just pissed me off.
Read any book on hindi filmi music published by any respectable publishers and see how they evaluate the singers/mds.
Nasiruddin shah:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjtZYWE2AVo
“I do not believe in superstars. For me the only superstar has been Dilip Kumar and he will always be. I don’t consider anybody after him as a superstar,” said Bollywood actress and MP Jaya Bachchan in New Delhi, while interacting with Indian Women’s Press Corps.
http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/mar/27/dilip-kumar-is-the-only-superstar-in-india.htm
post 89: “take many facts and twist them to suit ones viewpoint is perhaps – the sure shot at arriving at anything but the truth.” – well said and that applies to all.
I thought this thread was closed and I was happy. I will not reply to any future comments unless I am forced to. Good luck.
Take many facts and twist them to suit ones viewpoint is perhaps – the sure shot at arriving at anything but the truth.
there is lot of work at hand for mr.toufique, author of post 31 in replying to hans in posts : 87 and 88.
Needlessly its felt that he raised an issue about dilip saaheb when so many rafi fans are great fans of dilip saaheb too.
post 31
“prithviraj was a great theater actor, but his acting doesn’t work in film. it’s too theatrical. ashok did act better in later years. he is not great in any way. sahani is a good actor, but he is a character actor, not a hero.”
the above statement was made by you in reply to post 29 in which kn kumar had just mentioned these names with an etc. added and he had not said anything against dilip. i am surprised why you chose to demean these actors. it means you will target anybody whose name is taken along with dilip. i had not commented on this in my earlier post, because it was not related to rafi.
about prithviraj, tell us how you think he was theatrical and where did you see him acting in theaters. i have not seen his earlier films but he was simply superb in historical roles in sikander, sikander-e-azam, rustom sohrab and also mughle-azam in which he gave a much better performance than dilip.
about ashok you have not said when his later years started. we know his ‘kismat’ broke all records and that surely was not his later film nor was ‘mahal’. he was known for his natural acting style, which was not the case with dilip whose acting looked forced because he tried to be too methodical. motilal told him that on the sets of devdas. ashok never tried to overact like dilip. there is such a long list of top films both in lead role as well as as character actor that it will far outnumber dilip. he provided a lot of variety in his roles. in bandini he was 52 but he did not look rotten like dilip in his last years as hero.
same is the case with balraj sahni. you have perhaps not seen his films with lead role or have turned a blind eye. he came into films at the age of 33 and chose his roles as per his status in age. yet in 1960 anuradha he looked as young as anybody. yet he was not the one to stick to playing a hero with pendent cheek bags. can you find 5 films of the level of ‘do bigha jamin’ ‘seema’ ‘bhabhi’ ‘anuradha’ ‘kabuliwala’ in dilip’s list.
i would say dilip has got too much hype just like amitabh.
try to see a dilip film and hear a rafi song simultaneously and you may find yourself mesmerised by the rafi song before dilip would open his mouth for delivering his dialogue (yes he took so much time which was also the speciality of his brand ambassador manoj).
reply to toufiquenama
your initial objection was to the phrase ‘rafi shaped dilip’s career’ which appears a bit far-fetched. but that came from a fan of rafi irked by dilip’s behaviour and is pardonable and may be they did not mean it and only wanted to say that rafi had a big influence on dilip’s career which is undoubtedly true. but you have gone over the top and resorted to such statements and arguments which betray a latent ill-feeling for rafi and a willingness to malign him. this is the reason rafi fans have behaved aggressively towards you.
now to your arguments. you say ‘rafi had immense impact on shammi’s career, the same is not true for dilip’, which is not true as will be shown. you say all dilip’s films after ganga jamna were flops except ram aur shyam. it appears you are a big blind fan of dilip, so you must know that upto ganga jamna in his 16-17 years he had appeared as hero in 35 films, but after that in his 15 years as hero he appeared in just 9 films. nobody ever claimed that every film with rafi’s songs was a hit, yet rafi was the biggest impact on hfm. in ‘leader’ dilip was 42 and in ‘bairaag’ was 54 and his age really showed added to that his habit of overacting in those days, it is a miracle that leader and gopi were semi-hits as per your terminology. ram aur shyam became a hit just because of the theme of the film. of the six flop films sagina did not have a single rafi song, while dastan had one song and bairaag had 3 duets. by now due to radio the success of songs had almost delinked from the film, so all the great songs of rafi remained hits, while not so great films of dilip failed. in fact, of the trio of dilip, raj and dev dilip gave his last hit in l967 and raj in 1964 and only dev continued to provide hits for a long time and was rightly called the evergreen hero. actually raj and dilip (to say in hindi) ne bahut se producers ki lutiya dubo dee apne aakhri dinon men.
you say ‘when dilip and naushad were number ones, rafi was nothing compared to them. if naushad has dumped rafi in 1944, just think what would have happened? you should know that dilip and rafi made their debut in 1944 and in jugnu – when rafi came for the first time on dilip’s lips and it was not naushad’s film – both came to limelight together. dilip’s earlier 3 films were flops. jugnu’s success was attributed more to noor-jehan, who was then an established star. this i have pointed out to show that many persons/situations make impacts on filmi careers. careers of both rafi and dilip progressed almost simultaneously and reached their pinnacle in 1952, dilip’s with aan and rafi’s with aan and baiju bawra. so far as naushad’s dumping is concerned it can be said for everybody. if dilip was not given jwar bhata or naushad was not given prem nagar. your this line shows your ill-feeling towards rafi. he was not the one who had blamed dilip, then why you dragged him.
you have given a list of dilip hits with or without rafi and for convenience coined a new category with or without rafi on dilip’s lips. your intentions for creating this category become clear when we see that of the 17 films you listed without rafi on his lip 6 are those without rafi on his lip. if the simple category of dilip hits with or without rafi is taken then they will move to the other side. so of the 17 we can reduce 6 and 3 more came after demise of rafi and dilip was only in character role. thus we get only 8 hits without rafi. if we add these 5 (i have excluded kranti because in that dilip was not a hero) to 10 and also add madhumati, it comes to 16 and after adding amar and naya daur, conveniently forgotten by you we get 18. if we add jugnu and leader which were certainly semi-hits it is 20. now it is 8 against 20. your analogy of without rafi on lip is just hollow when you see the impact of songs like ‘zindabad-2’ ‘aana hai to aa’ ‘ye duniya ye duniya’ ‘ye zindagi ke mele’ on those films.
you say ‘he started with naushad in 1944 and had to wait for 7 years to become naushad’s lead male singer (lata started in 1947 and became the undisputed queen by 1949. even when rafi became naushad’s lead male singer, naushad was composing more songs for lata than for rafi’. you also said ‘before baijubawara naushad had 21 jubilees (silver/diamond/golden), after baijubawara, after baijubawara only 8.’ and you said you have each and every song tuned by naushad.
may be you have naushad’s whole collection but you have not analysed your collection. if you had, you would have known that naushad did not discard his singers so easily. lata was used by him in dulari for the first time but other female singers continued to get recordings from him he used suraiyya, shamshad and asha quite a lot. shamshad was a regular till mother india and asha continued with him till the end. he also used shanti mathur on the male child in son of india with the unforgettable ‘nanha munna rahi hoon’ and two other songs. but, after rafi came to the fore other male singers made their presence just for namesake. as per my stats he composed 264 songs for males including duets and 435 for females including duets. of the 264 rafi got 120 (more than 45 per cent) and lata got 157 out of 435 (36 per cent). why he composed more songs for lata, because some of the films were totally female dominated and it was the director who gave situations for songs and not naushad’s decision for whom he would compose. from the earlier times female songs have been much more than male songs. to give you a view in 1940s naushad composed 241 songs for 26 films of which 186 were solos (out of which 133 went to females and only 53 to males) and 55 were duets (in which 50 male and 61 female singers were used). so you see females got about double songs than males. in the 1950s naushad composed 141 songs (13 films) of which 110 were solos (35 for males and 75 for females) and 31 duets (26 for males and 44 for females). in the 1960s he composed 112 songs (13 films) 86 solos (33 males, 53 females) and 26 duets (27 males, 26 females). so you see throughout females dominated, though the gap got reduced in the 60s. there also no force in your argument of 21 hits till baijubawra and 8 hits later because till 1952 naushad had given music for 33 films and after that till the end of 60s he gave music for only 19 films.
i hope you will change your opinion.
Great work…DP saab….for someone like me who belongs to the generation of 80’s-90’s….I could never quite enjoy listening to the songs of Rafi Saab and especially with the combination you mentioned. Thankfully my father encouraged me to listen to songs of Rafi Saab, Kishore Saab and the other great singers of yesteryear and to this day I remain in awe of these masters.
Coming back to your article….all 4 of the mentioned greats have contributed a great deal to cinema in India and I only hope the next generation also gets to enjoy the ‘anmol ratan’ that these masters left behind!
Namaskar!
walijah sahab,
thank you for closing this anamoly and truly understanding me as a human being who has rafi sahab in him.
i ask you one simple question – if you were in my shoes what would you have done ?????
did you feel that a dangerous situation was created to appear like the
” cat is set among the pigeons ”
walijah sahab – post 81 was born to avoid a situation like that – do you understand waht i am reffering to. ??????
it is sad that the best bhajan in HFM was made by three dedicated human beings ( baiju bawra ) – and they need not have done it in the first place
if they were the type to set the cat among the pigeons.
today we live in a complicated world – it does not take much to excite a volatile youth.
i am truly hurt and never expected rafi fans to behave in such a fashion.
in the garb of rafi fans – they truly behaved like some from the neighbouring site.
hence forth – i feel i should not react or throw th kind of punch – i intend to, as it this age i cant take this kind of nasty behaviour and unwarranted rhetoric.
thank you very walijah sahab – may the almighty bless you with the very best.
ramesh narain kurpad
Ref. post: 81
Dear Ramesh ji, the great bhakt of Rafi saab
I am flattered and totally flat before you as we need not bow before anybody, we should bow before the one and only Almighty whom we call Allah, God, Bhagwan, since nobody is perfect in this world. Everyone is having many imperfections internally as well as externally. Please continue to write, I personally wish to read your comments and write ups. You are the one among many rafians whom I admire from the bottom of my heart.
With my deepest warm regards
H.A.K. Walijah
To Post 51: Ramesh-ji
I have just seen your comments in response to mine of Post 49. All I can say is: thank you very much sir. I really feel honoured by your compliments, and your suggestion to write an article here. Ramesh-ji, the truth is I find everyone who writes articles on this site so very knowledgeable. I wish I had that much talent. The most I can do is pass some comments when I feel a response rising within me to the articles or to the comments that others write. But thank you again. Inshallah, one day I will try and write an article.
But I would like to say Ramesh-ji, your utter devotion to Rafi Saab is evident in every post of yours. Your love for him is undeniable.
To Post 79 Haldar-ji: Very nicely written. I was particularly impressed by the last 2 paras, and especially the last line that Rafi Saab’s life “followed the path of a fakir like the fakir who induced him to embark on his musical journey”. Beautiful and so true. And while I write this, a line from one of his songs keeps going on in my head “mohabbat ki raahon mein chalna sambhal ke, yahan jo bhi aaya gaya haath mal ke”.
Shayad Rafi Saab agar “sambha”l ke chalte toh aaj tak is duniya mein rehte. Lekin is duniya mein woh ho ya na ho, hamare dilon mein woh zinda hain aur hamesha hamesha ke liye zinda rahenge.
Mr Ramesh Narain Kurpadjee Adaab Rafi,
It has always been a great pleasure to read your articles & comments in this beautiful site dedicated in the loving memory of the Greatest Legend Rafi Sahab, You, Haldar Sahab, Binujee & P Narayanan have all contributed in such a way that the comments & views from each one of you has totally brought a sea change in my writings and I have again cultivated a liking in this lovely site. But one small request to please please stop this prolonged debate which ultimately brings forth a negative approach amongst the genuine Rafi Lovers and ultimately they stop/discontinue their flair for writing. It is my very very personal request to all the worthy Rafi Lovers to put an end to this debate.
Thanks & Warm Regards
respected walijah sahab,
since there is a grave misunderstanding in a few young youth, but none from your end, i still feel, i should address this unfortunate anamoly through you, as you are the writer of this view point.
you had made a reference in your view point as under an i had made a thin jocular reference to this view point, in lighter vein.
my jocular vein was never directed towards some goo names mentioned initially by you.
hence, this sad mix up – should now stand solved – as i am truly sorry to have created this kind of mix up and i now come to realise that it i quite possible a point of view could be twisted and thrown at you inadvertantly due to these kind of mix ups.
i am quoting what you had written and i had referred.
quote :
You will find further the following people are in the waiting list:
N.Chandrababu Naidu
S M Krishna
Karunanidhi
Jayalalitha
Chief Ministers of Maharashtra
Chief Ministers of Haryana
Laloo Prasad Yadav
Unquote..
truly sorry for the mix up. bhakton it was never my intention to hurt anyones sentiments in the first place.
what was said in a most jocular vein – sadly turned out to be a mix up with angering many of our fans/bhakts. truly sorry for the same.
jai ho rafi sahab – tussi vakai great ho.
adaab rafi
ramesh narain kurpad.
Ref: post 62
I strongly condemn what is being called “ Jokers” to the so called dignitaries (Dilip Kumar, Amitabh Bachchan and Shahrukh Khan and the rest). It is not proper to write in intoxication of too much bhakti that certainly leads to extreme ends and thereupon no one can see what is around, what utterance follows from the mouth, and what the word the hand writes etc..
With no regards
Kabeer Aman
Dear friends,
This constant bickering among us has to stop. Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, we say things that we do not mean. Bharat Ratna is an emotive issue for Rafians and I’ve stayed away from the discussion so far. But if Sachin Tendulkar and Vishwanathan Anand are conferred the award, I’ll be one of the happiest persons, just as I was when Satyajit Ray, Lata Mangeshkar and Ustad Bismillah Khan were honoured. I do not believe that any of the present-day politicians merit such an honour.
Let me first discuss Ray and Lata because I’m very familiar with their work. If you consider their contributions to film and music, respectively, they deserve the award solely based on those contributions. I don’t think I need to comment on Ustad Bismillah Khan’s contributions, except to say that the No. 2 shehnai player in India during his time was a very distant second. There was no one even close to him. But what I admire him about him most is his simplicity and his refusal to leave Benaras in his final days, even when the government was willing to provide him with all the luxury in Delhi, because he wanted to remain in his own surroundings (Kashi Vishwanath temple, the ghats, etc. etc.). To his last day, he remained a symbol of inter-faith harmony and peace.
I’ll talk about another famous music personality, who is considered to be the father of modern North Indian classical music — he is Baba Allaudin Khan Saab, who gave us Ali Akbar Khan, Annapurna, Ravi Shankar and Nikhil Banerjee, each a star in his/her own right. He was a symbol of inter-faith harmony — can you imagine naming his daughter Annapurna and bequeathing her in marriage to his star student?
Why hasn’t he been awarded the Bharat Ratna? I’m raising this issue because I am not sure if the honour can be conferred posthumously. Has anyone received the Bharat Ratna after he or she died? If the award can be given posthumously, then Rafi saab deserves the award more than any other personality from the Hindi film industry. His songs alone, like the nightingale’s, qualify him for the award. But more than that, it is his compelling life story — succeeding in the face of all odds, his simplicity, his honesty, his generosity, his willingness to help other people (irrespective of caste, creed or religion) and his belief in the innate goodness of human beings. And how can one forget some of the most famous patriotic songs he has delivered for the country?
If Rafi saab were alive today, thousands would have queued up to get his darshan. Just a glimpse of him would bring tears to their eyes. In that sense, he is much above any sports or film star we have seen. But I will tell you one more thing — if people wanted to turn him into a godman, he would have gone into exile. There are two ways I’d love to describe him. First, despite being an integral part of the film industry, he remained an outsider. And second, his life followed the path of a fakir, like the fakir who induced him to embark on his musical journey.
Regards,
P. Haldar
bhakton,
i have nothing to add or delete from what i have said and considering my long years of life i do not find it prudent to get into this kind of a situation with probably some people less than half my age or equivalent to being my sons.
i would appreciate if walijah sahab reacts and if i have said anything to hurt him personally i would react accordingly.
BHARAT RATNA – flip the pages of history and have a good look at all the distinguished people who have been conferred this coveted highest indian civilian award – take note of their age at that time and the quality of achievement for which they received it – then and then
close your eyes and you will find only one who truly truly deserved this award long back and the world is still heavilly burdened with this not having happend.
sad as this is for me – i do not wish to be more sad with all these kind of talk.
hence – walijah sahab – if you respond – i am there – otherwise – i have nothing to say.
jai ho jai ho jai ho rafi sahab – tussi great ho.
ramesh narain kurpad.
Ramesh ji – 62
Sorry, your intention might be pure, but the way of conveying is surely in a changed track. Going by your post, it is quite clear, that you have clearly called the names mentioned by sri Walijah ji as jokers, which I, as a rafi fan, strongly condemn it. Even by mistake, it is difficult to point finger at legends like sachin tendulkar, viswanathan anand etc. If the message is conveyed to fans of sachin tendulkar or others what will be the consequence ? I personally feel and request, such remarks should be immediately stopped. I do not think your post 73 issues sufficient clarifications which appears contradictory to post 62, where you have used the term jokers and contradicting that you have not mentioned any name ? I am really surprised to note that a personality like you, association with ISCKON could post such comments ?
Abhishek ji, rafi fan 1 ji, Almas ji – I agree with you, there was certainly some excesses in post 62 from certain angles – however, the great regard and love for the great rafi of Sri Ramesh ji is highly acclaimed and respected, of course, which cannot be made use of for pointing towards other great legends.
Ref. Post 59, 64, 67 – Dear Walijah Sahab,
You have very nicely explained the prevailing circumstances and your above posts have balanced opinions. I appreciate your posts.
Post. (62) Ramesh Ji,
I strongly object your calling the respected and well known personalities ” Jokers”, you being a fan of rafi saab have hot any authority to call with such derogatory term. I think you realise what you have written which a true rafian will never accept.
I appreciate the post of Abhishek ji and Rafifan1 too with great sense of admiration.
Best regards
A. Almas
bhakton,
this is especailly to those misplaced individuals, who do not understand the attitudes of the sarmayedaars towards consdering a individual worty of any particular award.
when i used the word ” joker ” – did i mention any name – no – so that settles it.
i had already written to walijah sahab stating i am in total agreement with his all his mails in general, because he is a highly balanced individual – like – p.haldar sahab, bijoor sahab, etc. hence i care how they react to their own views / counterviews.
everyone is intelligent enough to refute and rebutt effectively, otherwise one should refrain from writing in public forums.
hence, understand first, then react. !!!!!! :))))))))
the almighty came into this mortal world during various times ( yuga’s ) as an avataar.
it is known that krishna was there during a certain period of time.
it is known that rafi sahab too was there during a certain period of time.
i consider rafi sahab a singing avataar.
one can be in disagreement with my views – but its absolutely blasphamous to condemn it.
it is public knowledge that i am a die hard rafi bhakt not just a fleeting fan.
for me everything to do with rafi sahab is a grave matter of concern.
it is never anyones intentions to hurt any one, hence kindly try to strictly avoid spreading ” negativity ” – due to misconstruing and inability to understand a stated point of view.
everything written in this beautiful rafi sahab webiste are just meagre individual view points – hence nobody sits in judgement.
its prudent not to be judgemental.
as an author myself – i strictly react to my own article myself and satisfy every querry raised.
ramesh narain kurpad.
I take strong exception to the post of Ramesh ji in his post 62, wherein he has mentioned names some established legends in their fields as jokers. Walijah sahab – janaab, great a very balanced post of yours has not been properly understood, I repeat not properly understood. Myself a admirer of rafi and others as sachin tendulkar, viswanathan anand who are the greatest ever legends in their respective fields are being called as jokers. Where is this discussion heading into ?
Abishek ji, you have rightly protested, I appreciate your post.
Dear Rafisahaab’s Fans,
Why demand Bharat Ratna? Rafisahaab has already got the love, respect, adoration and fan following of millions of people, who love and enjoy real music, across the globe. And none of it was ever demanded or bought or arranged for, it just came spontaneously, just from the heart. And this is much much much more and above the Govt Sponsored Awards. Rafisahaab is much above all this. He lives and will always live in the heart of these millions of his fans. A fact which a very few Bharat Ratna Awardees can ever even boast of.
Rafisahaab is on such a high pedestal in the lives of the millions of music lovers that Bharat Ratna or No Bharat Ratna – It is not going to affect.
This nation belongs to the millions of fans of Rafisahaab and he belongs to this nation. As very rightly sung “Jahan Dal Dal par soneki chidiya karti hai basera – Woh Bharat Desh hai Mera, Woh Bharat Desh hai Mera”
Post 62 – Ramesh ji
You call yourselves as a devotee of Lord Krishna and call some established names as jokers. Regrets to hear such points. I think I need not enlighten you that the lord resides in everybody equally – everybody has that divine spark. A true devotee has no attachments towards anybody and anything. He praises none except the almighty. It is not easy to win over the arishadvargas.
Walijah sahab – a great post, I agree with your points. Mahatma gandhi also should find place in the list.
every indian proud to raise their heads to the world one of the reasons i.e. we have blessed with such a magicianist singer like mohamed rafi sahebs for his solo, filmy,bhajans, desh bakthi songs etc. All his songs are touched in the hearts directly itself.
Janab Walijah Sahab, ASA,
Thanks for sharing, Daily Times article on Dilip Sahab.
With regards to all Rafi lovers,
Dr. Khaja Aliuddin
there are two appearances the almighty made in the blessed land of bharat and every bharatvaasee never refutes and protects it with a smile ( irrespective of religion caste creed colour ) simply because in both the appearances the birth life and death was in bharat itself.
krishna
rafi sahab
ramesh narain kurpad
bijooor sahab, haldar sahab, walijah sahab,
in total agreement to all that you all say – ” muddey kee baaath karo ”
woh toh vanhee kaa vanhee rehgayaa
pointing fingers at any one individual is like ” flogging dead meat “.
merey liye mool muddaa vanhee rehgaya
rafi sahab and bharat ratna.
ramesh narain kurpad
Dear Rafians,
I fully support the views expressed by our great rafian friend Mr. P. Haldar about the thespian – Dilip Kumar. I request the fellow rafians to read this article appeared in “ The Daily times” – ANALYSIS: Dilip Kumar turns 88 — by Ishtiaq Ahmed dated 28 Dec. 2010. Here is the link for this article.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010%5C12%5C28%5Cstory_28-12-2010_pg3_2
At one place Dilip Kumar praised Rafi Saab : “About the great Rafi sahib he told me that a gentler human being than him was difficult to find”.
Best regards
H.A.K. Walijah
Email: hakwalijah62@gmail.com
Dear friends,
I’m requesting everyone not to vent our anger on Dilip Kumar saab for not being more vocal in his praise of Rafi saab. I wholeheartedly endorse what Mr. Milind Bijoor has said in post 63:
—
“We, Mr. D.P.Bijoor and myself, are of the opinion that the real recognition, real respect and the real tribute ever given to Rafisahaab is by the common man, jo kal bhi aaj bhi aur kal bhi. aapna dil thamke aapne Rafisahaab ko sunta tha , sunta hai aur sunta rahega hamesha ke liye. What more do we need, friends just go through the everincreasing list of fans and that too from such listeners across the world, many of who were born after Rafisahaab’s untimely death. Is it not the sheer magic, the sheer power of his voice?”
—-
Yusuf Khan saab is the son of a fruit seller who used to vend his produce on a cart in the Peshawar region. To reach the status he achieved requires not only extraordinary talent, but a tremendous amount of dedication and hard work. He has always been a thorough gentleman. Our emotions sometimes cloud our objectivity, and we should not let those emotions dictate us to say negative things about someone who has had such a long and fruitful association with Rafi saab. I myself am guilty of the crime.
Let’s enjoy the music that the Shakeel-Naushad-Rafi team created for Dilip Kumar and bring an end to this acrimonious debate. But I’d love to hear your responses to my questions in post 60.
Regards,
P. Haldar
Some more food for thought :
Hindi film music fans in general and rafi fans in pariticular:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMJdG6gjLsE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zslcMFPf1k&feature=related
(containing some rare photos of music fraternity)
post (62) – Dear Ramesh ji,
As you said “the ground reality will not change – the sun will rise in the east and set in the west only.” Likewise what I expressed my views in my post (59) is also true, in other sense the names I mentioned therein are not JOKERS. Their names meant a lot to others and in their respective fields, (politics, sports and entertainment). It is out of your sheer love on Rafi Saab that you speak like that but at the same time you can’t sidelined the truth. Bharat Ratnas had given earlier and will be given to others in the later coming years. Now I doubt whether Rafi saab name is there in the waiting list or not? The outcry of million of rafi fans is just falling on deaf ears, this rafi fans’ clamour will give sympathies but will work???
I am sorry if my simple prose hurt you, just I want to tell the prevailing truth and its significance. Nothing personal at all. As you know I love Rafi saab as you do, We are just the fans, we can do nothing more than to blown away our outbursts sometimes…….
With lot of respect and love to our dear Ramesh ji
Best regards
H.A.K. Walijah
Dear Rafisahaab’s Fans,
At the very outset I would like to thank all of you for posting ur comments and views on our article. And the entire credit for this beautiful article goes to Mr. D.P.Bijoor.
Why are we debating on whether anyone has appreciated or acknowledged in public about Rafisahaab’s greatness. Some people may not do so in public but we are sure that they all love and respect Rafisahaab.We all know what wonders Rafisahaab’s voice has done for their careers. His voice has been Sone Pe Suhaga for the careers of many a great artists, actors and music directors.
We, Mr. D.P.Bijoor and myself, are of the opinion that the real recognition, real respect and the real tribute ever given to Rafisahaab is by the common man, jo kal bhi aaj bhi aur kal bhi. aapna dil thamke aapne Rafisahaab ko sunta tha , sunta hai aur sunta rahega hamesha ke liye. What more do we need, friends just go through the everincreasing list of fans and that too from such listeners across the world, many of who were born after Rafisahaab’s untimely death. Is it not the sheer magic, the sheer power of his voice?
So just relax and enjoy listening to the eternal voice – RafiSahaab.
With regards
Milind M Bijoor
haldarji – post 60 and walijah sahab – post 59.
haldarji – a nice intelligent from you. may not sound funny from many angles ( unless we force ourselves to do so – as you goad us in a friendly manner ).
1) lovers of these PBS may think differently and give you us a list of songs if rafi sahab could even think of singing it.
2) the songs would get badly mauled – mutilated and may sound something else – as they entire genre of singing has to be replaced.
3) most important point i wish to ask you is much against popular belief that the word ” impossible ” should be removed from the minds of the human beings and the english dictinoary – ” are you trying to give it a more nastier meaning by asking the legendary singers to do the impossible ” ?????
walijah sahab – with great respect to your vehement outpourings – the ground reality will not change – the sun will rise in the east and set in the west only.
hence rafi sahab will always stand tall ( irrespective of your mentioning names of some jokers ) and the award in question will never achieve its true strength – aura and greatness till it is conferred upon our dear dear rafi sahab.
fans / bhakts love and devotion for rafi sahab is not so very feeble or glassy to fade away or vanish – the way you are saying.
your views well taken and understood in toto.
ramesh narain kurpad
Wah Wah Haldar Babu:
I could not stop laughing reading your post. You could not have picked another voice that is more unsuitable for each of the songs you have mentioned!
Now on the serious side – if one voice could bring the best in all of these songs of different genre, it was only the one chosen by the music directors. Sometimes I wonder whether the music directors would have even ventured to score a tune like “Jaag Dile-Deewana, Rut Jaagi Wasle Yaar Ki” if they did not have the luxury of having a velvety voice of our favourite singer.
Dear friends,
The discussion is getting a little heated, so I thought it is time for comic relief. How about other singers playbacking for Dilip Kumar instead of Rafi? I’ve provided below a list of songs that Rafi sang for Dilip; given that there are some folks who think Rafi hardly had anything to do with Dilip’s success, can the knowledgeable folks here point out how each of the songs would have sounded (worse, same, better) in the specified singer’s voice.
Madhuban mein radhika (Kishore)
Mere pairon me ghungroo (Talat)
Meri kahani bhul ne wale (Mukesh)
Nain lad jai re (Hemant)
Koi sagar dil ko (Manna)
Eagerly awaiting everyone’s responses.
Hi Friends,
Please stop beating around the bush for Bharat Ratna for rafi saab. The rat race has begun, you can find a number of luminaries seeking the prestigious award for themselves, we really do not know where our Rafi saab stand in this `Q’ as the list goes like this.
Dilip Kumar, Amitabh Bachchan, Shahrukh Khan and
Sachin tendulkar, The Maharashtra government has urged the centre to confer ‘Bharat Ratna’ for Sachin Tendulkar for his landmark achievement in the cricket world, and making the nation proud. And affirmed that Sachin’s contribution deserves the highest civilian award and he would like to request to the centre to grant him the award. Tendulkar’s record breaking double hundred in ODI has made his fans go crazy for him. Not only that even the politicians and prior cricket legends believe he deserves the highest civilian honour, i.e., the Bharat Ratna. Sachin himself is exited for the achievement but says his focus will remain on the game. He hasn’t finished with his career in cricket yet, who knows how many more records he will break in future. Shall the jury wait for some more time or shall he be presented with the honour soon?
Viswanathan Anand, the undisputed world champion since last few years in a game of Chess which is played by more than 150 countries. He deserves a Bharat Ratna first than any other sportsman.
Also, there is a certain Atal Bihari Vajpayee who didn’t get it. But MGR did!!!
Sri Nitish Kumar is a Great Son of India and a modern saviour of the Bihar, which was drowning in crimes, kidnappings and casteism and coulld have become a national problem. Nitishji is the ‘modern Gandhi’ of Bihar and if he can do this kind of development for five more years – I think India ought to salute him with Bharat Ratna!
You will find further the following people are in the waiting list:
N.Chandrababu Naidu
S M Krishna
Karunanidhi
Jayalalitha
Chief Ministers of Maharashtra
Chief Ministers of Haryana
Laloo Prasad Yadav
Only Beggars of India can be honored as Bharat Ratna because they beg honestly and live honestly and they need not speak any lie for their survival as everything is transparent and they have no asset in any swiss banks but still they never complain about their fate.
What is your opinion on this ????????????????
A person’s own good work and achievements, recognition by society, leaving behind a legecy of good deeds, acknowledgment and adulation by own alma matar is the highest honour one can get. Because there is something for all to see, all to benefit. It is more honourable than the Bharat Ratan, or for that matter any other honour. These Sarkari honours system has dubious process of nomination, shortlisting, and selection.
But it is certainly not a nice thing to hear that Rafi did not get his due in his own country, and that he had to be content with a Padma Shri while his contemporary Lata Mangeshkar was honoured with the Bharat Ratna, India’s highest civilian accolade.
Till date no actor has received the Bharat Ratna award. In 1992, acclaimed filmmaker Satyajit Ray was the first person from the entertainment industry to have been conferred the honour.
Music greats like Carnatic music vocalist M.S. Subbulakshmi, sitar player Ravi Shankar, singer Lata Mangeshkar, shehnai maestro Bismillah Khan and classical singer Bhimsen Joshi became its proud recipients.
Best regards,
H.A.K. Walijah
Bijoor sahab, extremely sorry that I posted my other comment first and on your wonderful article later. You have given us a very fine commentary on the foursome – Shakeel, Naushad, Dilip Kumar and Rafi Sahab and I fully agree that this was the greatest ever combination in hfm. I have missed out on some good articles on this website in recent past due to other preoccupations, and I am glad I spotted this one today. Thanks for the great analysis on a combination which has always fascinated me for the lyrics, the wonderful music scoring, exceptional singing by Rafi Sahab (to justify some of the compositions of Naushad, it requires super human effort which Rafi Sahab was easily adept at) and good acting by Dilip Kumar. Keep us enthralled with more from your pen.
Rameshbhai, comment no. 56. Fully second what you have stated about Dilip Kumar. We need not seek his help for the cause. If it comes on our own efforts and through the good offices of any other film personality and political groups then it is alright. Dilip Kumar did not have the courtesy to acknowledge the contribution of Rafi Sahab to the actor’s popularity. Minus the songs in his movies which were rendered so excellently by Rafi Sahab, Dilip Kumar would have been reduced to an ‘also ran’ despite his good acting. We have had several very good actors, for instance a Balraj Sahni (an actor par excellence) but without the support of some great singing behind him, he was never in the reckoning when compared to the mainstream heroes of his time.
nasreenjeee n nafisajeee,
rafi sahab not conferred upon bharat ratna – everything else is passe.!!!!!
suddenly, ( shockingly ) naushad sahab and shakeel badayuni sahab are missing from the quartet in our discussions. yes, i agree, three are not living and the only one still living as expressed by you all is too camera and stage shy ( though he is a thespian, colosssuss, and a yester year smashing acting legend ) to even support rafi sahab for his worth.
does yusuf khan – dilip kumar – also has a inner burning of his own self receiving the coveted award – as a die hard rafi bhakt – i will support him after he admits rafi sahab’s role in his success and that he owes it to him.
it is not for binuji or any one to go and beg yusuf khan to support the cause of rafi sahab being conferred bharat ratna.
that tantamounts to begging. – no – period – we are not begging !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
approaching dilip kumar to support rafi sahab is sheer begging. he is no authority who holds powers to go and request or beg – he is just one of those beneficiaries of rafi sahab who gained out of rafi sahab’s divine singing.
rafi sahab did not sing the way the stars acted – the stars acted the way rafi sahab sang. – that is the legacy.
i just love dilip kumar and his stupendous acting – but – he is nothing – if he forgets the various causes for his success – a great part of it being rafi sahab.
reel life is different from real life – that we know – probably some pretend not to know and glide over the tide without a skate.
this does not hold water.
bijoor sahab has written a great article – a lot of truth in it – so far as histrionics is concerned – beyond that – as it is expressed in rafi sahab’s website – it has stood the test.
imagine the weight of rafi sahab – standing the test of time and yet – standing apart – a simpleton – unheeded.
nasreenjeee nafisajeee – thanx for giving me an oppportunity to say so much about dear dear rafi sahab.
a dedicated webiste for legendary dilip kumar would showcase him better – in this rafi sahab website he is just one among the many players and a guest.
rafi sahab is the one and the only one.
jai ho rafi sahab – tussi great ho.
ramesh narain kurpad
Rameshkurpud sahab (Post 51) and Kamath sahab (Post 52),
I am truly overwhelmed and humbled by the praise and approval. i do not deserve such superlatives.
I take liberty to twist a famous shair(Urdu) :
Taarif us khuda ki jis ne mohammed rafi banaaya….
usko farishta sifat, hum sab ko rafians banaaya….
being a rafi fan from child hood i can understand the anguish expressed by Rameshkurpud sahab. I also feel that if anyone deserves Bharat Ratna it is Mohammed Rafi sahab.
I dont think, we all are privy to all the things being said and spoken by everybody, Mr. Dilip Kumar included. I have seen him talking about rafi in some short clippings uploaded on Youtube by some rafi fans, (Rafiology, Legendrafi, etc.)
A documentary on Mohammed Rafi saheb produced by Films Division of India, may shed some light on this.
Please do not despair , there is always light at the end of the tunnel.
If someone has direct access to Dilip saheb, perhaps a letter of support to the cause can be obtained, if possible, maybe Shri. Binu Nair ji is the correct person to try this route.
Nasreen ji, (Post 49),
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
In my point regarding rafi sahab and dilip saheb being contemporaries, i said both did significant work with each other and without each other.
Dilip Kumar has often been called an institution in himself, and just as u said when he speaks the world listens. not just due to his excellent voice modulations or diction, but the fact that he has spoken fewer words in public than any other superstars (Actors) in public and in front of media.
He was a great performer in front of the camera, but he was stage shy. I have seen him on some award functions, years ago on TV, and felt he is not comfortable addressing live audience. I may be mistaken.
He is also only actor of his period , who had a magazine dedicated to him, if some old timers remember it. It was an urdu magazine called ” Gulfam “. every issue will feature dilip kumar on the cover and articles on him.
Anupam kher once said on tv that dilip sahab is the reason why we became actors.
As pointed out in earlier posts may be he is an egoist, even then the success of another legend in another sphere of the same industry should not be cause of insecurity.
it goes without saying that the great “KHAZANA” of hindi film songs is the true cultural, artistic and even humane wealth of our nation. Let us hope and pray for the govt. of india will finally wake up and reward mohammed rafi with Bharat ratna award, for his great contribution to the indian music industry.
Regards to all rafians.
i am posting it again as a precautionary measure as it may have been lost in spam mail.
rameshkurpad Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
January 13th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
post 49 – respected nasreenji,
you sure do possess a heart of gold and did make me weep like a small child ( i am all 62 years ) – you covered the subject in question – you covered the basic differences in question, you covered the sweetness of both the legends in question, did everything so very well, yet you ensured that the truth prevailed high in the sky for all to see and rafi sahab came out the clear winner.
how i wish, i could write so nicely as you have written especially the chronolgical pattern of dissection and sheer intelligent analysis – putting all readers into an easy chair feeling and th turmoils at complete rest.
i think – i am in for a double treat – as nafisaji too is to react – and i hope and pray her reply is sweeter than yours.
i am really proud to be in the company of such gracious and intelligent ladies.
god bless you nasreenji and keep writing often – abhee aapsey ek acchhee seee article kaa aashaa paidaa hochukaa – umdeed kartaa hoon – aap hamey niraash nahee karengey.
rafiaarenkay@gmail.com
rameshkurpad@gmail.com
ramesh narain kurpad
mera post no.51 posted at 2.20pm is not yet cleared/moderated by the author or the moderater. please do needful.
ramesh narain kurpad.
Nafisajee great analysis on the greatest thespian Dilip Kumar Please accept my compliments for the same
There has been a slight offbeat comparison mainly against the likes of the 2 greatest ever legends Mohammed Rafi Sahab & Dilip Kumar Saab. The reason for the same is better known to the erstwhile fans who have posted their views in this respect however the subject of the article and the article itself in question by the great exponent bijoors never does say a word on this issue of comparison.
Yusuf Khan alias the greatest Dilip Kumar is undoubtedly one of the finest actors the Indian screen has ever ever produced “aur unhe aaena dikhana hum bachonka khel nahee hai janab”. By and large this gentleman as many are not aware is in totality has soft spoken mannerisms, great charisma and till date possessing a handsome personality “jo acho achonko sharminda kar de”. Rafi Sahab has rendered innumerable songs & renditions for Dilip Sahab which was definitely not because he was against him or vice-versa. There should be ample of love & respect in one’s mind and in one’s inner core of heart rather than go shouting around the bushes which I presume was not Dilip Kumar’s cup of tea at all.
Friends it was Bimal Roy at the making of classic “Devdas” had openly remarked if Dilip Kumar is not interested to do this film I am not interested in making this film at all. Thereafter it was history created with Dilip totally mesmerizing the likes of the great Motilal in the same film, taking Raj Kapoor in the corner in the film “Andaz”, leaving Ashok Kumar nowhere in the film “Deedar”, and poor Dev Anand found grasping in “Insaniyat” . Come “Sanghursh” and it was yet another cool blow for the great Balraj Sahni. How many films to name & how many roles to narrate? 8 filmfare awards to his credit and no one to equalize it till date and just view the overall percentage ratio in the article of bijoors one should get a clear picture as to what Dilip Kumar was and is.
Undoubtedly Rafi Sahab, Naushad Miya & Shakeel Sir were the greatest ever in their own self esteem. “Charag lekar duniya bahr dhundo phir bhee inn charonkee talash nahi hogee”
post 49 – respected nasreenji,
you sure do possess a heart of gold and did make me weep like a small child ( i am all 62 years ) – you covered the subject in question – you covered the basic differences in question, you covered the sweetness of both the legends in question, did everything so very well, yet you ensured that the truth prevailed high in the sky for all to see and rafi sahab came out the clear winner.
how i wish, i could write so nicely as you have written especially the chronolgical pattern of dissection and sheer intelligent analysis – putting all readers into an easy chair feeling and th turmoils at complete rest.
i think – i am in for a double treat – as nafisaji too is to react – and i hope and pray her reply is sweeter than yours.
i am really proud to be in the company of such gracious and intelligent ladies.
god bless you nasreenji and keep writing often – abhee aapsey ek acchhee seee article kaa aashaa paidaa hochukaa – umdeed kartaa hoon – aap hamey niraash nahee karengey.
rafiaarenkay@gmail.com
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ramesh narain kurpad