Mohammed Rafi – Kishore Kumar : Great Legends : Greatest Friends – “Bane Chahe Dushman Zamana Hamara Salamat Rahe Dostana Hamara”
By D.P.Bijoor
Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar
The Hindi Film Industry of musical entertainment since its inception over 7 decades, has undoubtedly given music lovers especially in India and in general, all over the world the pleasure of listening to lilting and soulful melodies composed by eminent lyricisits of the byegone era and embellished by the golden voice of Immortal singers whose memories can never be erased with the passage of time.
Friends, from among the handful of most precious pearls unearthed from the depths of the Ocean as it were, – two musical GENIUSES come readily to mind both of whom have created a niche for themselves in the industry and in the minds & hearts of their innumerable fans & admirers as “GREAT LEGENDS”. Yes, I definitely mean two of the “GREATEST FRIENDS” – Kishore Kumar and Mohammed Rafi to be very precise, both of whom are alas, no more with us today.
As is commonly known, Mohammad Rafi & Kishore Kumar were born on 24th December 1924 and 4th August 1929 respectively. During their relatively short life, the two friends were associated in almost 59 songs approximately of which, 33 songs have been recorded as duets and the balance 26 songs can be categorized as multiple voiced songs comprising of 2 or more singers. Rafi Sahab started his career in the year 1944 with the Punjabi film “Gulbaloch” whereas Kishore Da started his career in the year 1948 with the film “Ziddi” with the song “Marne kee duwayen kyoon mange” picturized on Dev Anand with music scored by Dada Burman.
In my (very earlier years when I was young ) younger days I always carried a (very wrong impression) misconception that since Rafi Sahab has sung for Kishoreda, he automatically was the greatest of the two, however when I had the opportunity of personally meeting these 2 legends I became aware of my misplaced views.(the exact situation) In the year 1958 in the film “Raagini” the lovely song “Mana mora bawara nisadin gaaye geet Milan ke” was the first song which Rafi Sahab had sung for Kishoreda. The erroneous belief (wrong impression) created for this song was since it was a classical based note it was offered to Rafi Sahaab, but the unknown fact behind this move was that initially the hero of this film “Raagini” was Bharat Bhushan and accordingly this song was recorded in Rafi’s voice to suit the actor mainly considering the stupendous success of Baiju Bawara. Subsequently the lead role was enacted by Kishore Kumar and to save on the expenses of re-recording the song all over again in Kishoreda’s voice it was decided to retain the earlier version sung by Rafi Sahab in this film. The other songs sung by Rafi for Kishore were “Ajab hai dastaan teree hai zindagi” from the film Shararat in the year 1959, “Hume koyee gam hai” & “Masiha banke bimaronke chale ho kahan karke jee bekarar” from the film Bhagam Bhag in the year 1956. Friends the main reason for Rafi Sahab singing these songs for Kishore is believed to be family unrest prevailing in Kishoreda’s house in those days which were so genuine that Rafi Sahab used to be present unfailingly (come running ) for the scheduled recordings of his close friend Kishoreda.
Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar
Such lovely incidents never created any professional envy or misunderstanding between these 2 gentlemen but in-fact immensely helped in further bonding their friendship & relationship to grow stronger!!
I would like to quote an incidence to prove my point of view –
After the stupendous success of “Aradhana” – Kishore da became immensely popular and this led to organizing various “Kishore Nite “ programs in full swing. During a similar program scheduled in Kolhapur, a large group of Kishoreda’s fans & admirers had gathered at the hotel to meet him and to obtain his autograph. One of his admirers had carried a transistor in which Rafi Sahab’s song was being played and seeing Kishoreda in front; the said admirer immediately switched off the transistor which Kishoreda minutely noticed and requested the admirer to again switch on the radio and quietly listened to Rafi Sahab’s song being played. Kishoreda remarked that it gives immense pleasure to hear Rafi’s songs and he further exclaimed “In our film industry will you ever find a sweet voice like Rafi Sahab’s?
This gesture on the part of Kishoreda indeed proves the great respect for each other.
Rafi Sahab & Kishoreda came together in many duets beginning with the film “Malkeen” in the year 1953 which was produced by the popular comedian of that era Gope. The music for this file was scored by Late Roshan and the lovely duet was “Kahee se oonchee kahee se nich sadak jamane kee sambhal ke chalna babuji”and this song was pictured on Gope & Yakub.
Other popular duets:
| SONG | FILM | MUSIC DIRECTOR | YEAR |
|---|---|---|---|
| Aadhi tum khalo aadhi hum khale | Fifty Fifty | Madan Mohan | 1956 |
| Chal shooroo ho ja | Humjoli | Laxmikant Pyarelal | 1970 |
| Halka halka sa rang gulabee | Khoj | Usha Khanna | 1971 |
| Yoon na sharma faila de apnee | Parwana | Madan Mohan | 1971 |
| Yaadon kee baarat nikali hai | Yaadonkee Baarat | R D Burman | 1973 |
| Saa Re Ga Ma pa dha nee sa | Chupke Chupke | S D Burman | 1975 |
| Tera jalwa toba hai tera jalwa | Aap ke Diwane | Rajesh Roshan | 1980 |
| Tumko khush dekhkar main bahot | Aap ke Diwane | Rajesh Roshan | 1980 |
| Ek raasta aha aha do rahee aha aha | Ram Balram | Laxmikant Pyarelal | 1980 |
Friends, when Rafi Sahab left us for his heavenly abode on that devastating night of July 31, 1980 it was Kishoreda who was seated at the feet of Rafi Sahab for hours together weeping & crying inconsolably like a child.!! Was this the mark of the great bonded relationship OR Enmity?
Indeed, both were GREAT LEGENDS of their times & Of course, DEAREST FRIENDS !!! How true then, that they had together, rendered the popular number in their inimitable voice………..
“Bane Chahe Dushman Zamana Hamara Salamat Rahe Dostana Hamara”
This small article has been penned by Mr D P Bijoor but would not have been possible without the help & able guidance from Mr Mohan S Murdeshwar.
The comparison between Rafi and Kishoreda has been shown in a very bad taste. No doubt Rafi sang a few very great songs but out of his thousands of songs so many songs are so bad that Rafi fans also never ever try to remember them. It is quite apparent with the songs which both the singers have sung altogether that Kishore has sung them in a better manner and his singing ability commands over Rafi. Though, Rafi was talented but he was given more preferences because he belonged to a special community. This can be easily seen in cases of other performers in our film industry who despite of their poor ability are enjoying super-stardom whereas many more, better actors/singers/performers have been struggling as they are from a different community. As our film industry is being ruled by the underworld/mafia, belonging to this particular community the performers belonging to this community have been given more and more coverage since years together. The same thing has been experienced in the case of Rafi and Kishore where under the influence of the said lobby Kishore has always been put in bad lights despite of his better singing abilities and mannerism. AND….. in a country like ours we believe and digest everything put forth by the media and publicity agencies playing at the hands of this particular lobby. We just not only believe but also keep on dancing to their tunes without realizing their motive of doing so. If anybody still has any doubt about this he must immediately listen and compare the songs sung by both the singers altogether.
continuing my comments I will add that much before Aradhana Kishore’s song in Suhaagraat ‘dharati ki tarah tu sahati jaa’ gave an example of this pathos and zing which Kishore’s voice developed all of a sudden and which clearly put him much ahead of Rafi sir in the song ‘tum bin jaoon kahan’ in Pyaar ka mausam.The accidental success of Aradhana and the emergence of Rahesh Khanna wave just added wind to the Kishore flame.I am sure the way Kishore’s voice started deteorating due to constant singing and age factor,if he had lived for another 5-10 years he too would have been sidelined by Kumar Shanu, who was sounding much younger and better.It is a law of nature before which we all have to surrender.Because of this today an Alka Yagnik sounds better than Lataji
no doubt MohdRAFI WAS A SINGER PAR EXCELLENCE but we must bow to the laws of nature which commands that what goes up also comes down with time.In his time my late father was sure that Sehgal was last word in male singing and noone could replace or excel him but in his life time Rafi,Mukesh Talat overtook him[Sehgal] IN TASTE AND FOLLOWING.This also happened with Rafi Saheb though in his case he was overrun by a person who was at the end of the race for 15-20 years and was an ‘also ran’ for most of the time.I carefully analyzed this strange phenomenon and have this reason to offer.By his prolific and constant singing thro’ 50s and 60s the vocal chords of Rafi Saheb took a beating of time and in late 60s he started sounding flattish.The zing in his voice had started deserting him and due to an unexplained miracles Kishore who had a flattish voice althrou his life till late 60s got the zing in his voice and he started singing better.
Dear musiclovers and rafi fans,
All gentlemen on this thread who are reading me, I want to bring something to light. You must have noticed that the kind of songs and music that are being made today. Its a shame. Quality music is dissapearing.
I think the only way we can help improve the quality of music today is to educate our children with good quality songs. We should expose them to the khazana of music that our predecessors legends have left us with . I have noticed that youth today does not even know about legends like Rafisaab, Kishoreda and Mannadey. I mean, literally young generation doesnt even know the “names” of our legends. Infact, they find it old-fashioned when an old melody is played in front of them. Why? Thats because they have never been taught about these legends by their parents. Its very shameful.
I think the only way is to expose our children with this quality music at an early age, so that they develop an interest and love for these legends. Its then that they would be able to understand that whats quality music.
I hope all of you gentlemen here are with me for this cause. If we want to preserve our music and prevent it from getting effected by westernization then, we all need to do our duty and propagate this into the life of today`s generation.
Thanks and Adaab!
Fazal
Yeh Qhudrat ka karishma tha, jo Rafi Sahab aur Kishore Sahab jaise funkar duniya mein aaye, yeh hindustan ki khusnaseebi hai, ke donon ne aise misalein pesh ki jis par saari mausiqi ke chahne waloon ko naaz hoga, aur mera yeh man’nah hai ke, yeh Qudrat ka tohfah jo duniya ko mila, woh phir aur kabhi nahin mil sakta.
this is regarding post 17 and etc. again authentic interview of pyarelal in magazines and on net vialable. pyarelal totally denioes that “nfarat ki duniya ko ” a singular song penned by rafi in hahi mere sathi was first offerd to mkishore na djhe could not render it. he categorically says that the song was created with rafi in mind. kishore was never called tor rendition of this song! lp consisitently used rafi but some of theior best numbers were designed for kishore like “yeh jeevan hai”, ruk jana nahi. laximkant pyarelalin intervioewws always maintained that rafi is the best singer. but pyare;lal in recent interview has also said that ” kishoe ” comes as a veruy closed second!
also the same laxmikant said that whenever he composed a male song he would mostly hum it in voice of rafi . in the samere interview he said that while composing “mere dil me aaaj kya hai” in his ears trhewre was alwys vodeep voice of kishore sounding!
the same lp used kishore to sing for “rajendra kumar ” in tumko bhi kuch ” as laxmikant’s decision!
the samere lp used kishore on khnnna immediately after sdb on the tragic song “mere nasib me “. it is the decision of md bbased on whuich song suitsa which!
it was clear that LP even had recoginytion of the necessity to use the voice of kishore when it is needed and they were also decided on it.
both lp and ka said that kishore had done a graet justice to their siongs respectively ” vada tera vada” and salame ishq ” though kishore falsely and modestly beleived he could not do full justice. he saifd to the composers call rafi for these songs they suit him better.
allthese are authentic interviews in literatuyre in madhuri and filmfare .
but lp maintains that according to them the song sis just superblty rendered by kishore and they had designed it for kishgore
man re rendition of kishore is live and the natara is very beautifully rennderd alebit better than rafi . the mukhada in initial stage apperas flawed probably due to poor live rcording . again this iis impartial assesment.
as far as ragini is concerened true that opn called rafi but he did it to teach kishore a lesson as said by opn in his interview. surely rafi and manna de were more adept at classical songs.
as far as sharaart song is concerened the real superhit song is sung by kishore only. these are secondary songs! one can not raad too much from them . lets be impartial . both weere legends and there wqere different kind of songs which suited to their voices best!
listen to many inteviews of laxmikant pyarelaal. the line on maitabh in parda hai parada was rendered by kishorekumar. they mentioned that they were apprehensive whether kishore would just sing one line. but they approached kishorre and kishore agreed immediately. this is the song inmovie it has this line sung by kishore authentically as confirmed from Lp. saee pyarelals recent interviews! i am not sure about the recored version whether there is such a line in it!
If singing capability was solely judged by sur & taal, Ustad Bade Ghulam ali khan wud be the best singer in the world. But singing (specially playback singing) is more importantly about communicating the essence of the song with accurate feelings, soul and expressions. In sugam sangeet, it is far more important to capture the right feel rather than show your ability to take a alap or sargam. With all due respect to Rafiji, Kishore was undoubtedly superior in the former art. The quantum change expressed in kishoreda’s voice and expressions in sad, serious and philosophical songs (vs his normal songs) are testimony to his mastery. Sorry, but technical abilities are not the best barometer to judge a playback singer’s greatness.
Post 88, 89 and 90….
very wise and nice. thank you.
==========================================
Last July 2010 there were 9400 musical in remembrance of mohd rafi saaheb.
this dec.24 too mohd rafi is being remembered very very affectionately by rafi lovers – in different corners of the world.
In mumbai…many events are happening… please follow these pages for a detailed report on the many birthday events in memory of mohd rafi saabs – 86th birthday celebrations.
if the music is good, the heart will sing.
When mohd rafi sings, millions will sing…
binu nair
founder, the rafi foundation
mumbai
e.mail : binus2000@hotmail.com
cell : +09833 250 701.. mumbai
i need to correct a sentence in my earlier post: ‘ no matter who you compare him to” not ‘with’. sorry for error.
rafi saheb was singer par excellence ; kishore da was artist par excellence ( after all he was so multi-talented: producer, dirctor, writer, music director, story writer, actor etc). that kishore da was also a great singer, tilts the comparison (as artist) in kishore da’s favour. so one needs to be clear what the comparison is about. if the comparison is just as singer, rafi saheb is the last word; he was and has remained so. in my humble and personal view, rafi saheb is the greatest singer in human history, no matter who you compare him with. but i do pray to hear a singer greater than he. i would be nice to see how ‘God/Nature’ can improve on rafi saheb. thank you everyone.
The writers focused only that Rafi sang for KK was merely incidental … but there are many other songs … what should be the fact that even lesser known MD like Vipin used Rafi’s voice on KK’s lips?
Main is masoom chehre ko, Rafi sings for Kishore Kumar MD – Vipin Babul
http://www.24listen.net/yShjtsP4fa8/main-is-masoom-chehre-ko-rafi-sings-for-kishore-kumar/
there is no end to this long discussion. simply Rafi Saab was Rafi Saab , no comparisons , no parallels , no match nothing. He himself was a great convenor of the friendship, simplicity, love and harmony; drawing comparisons will certainly diminish the philosophy of the soul. Once Biswajeet had said in an interview that Rafi was a messiah and had a divine link. Similary Naushad described Rafi- “Mausiki ka payyambar”- the prophet of singing and in the words of Shammi Kapoor ” people like Rafi appear on this earth one in a life time.” what else ?
post no. 85,
thanx for the information.
the voice in that line does sound amazingly like kishore’s (kishore’s voice for amitabh bachchan). of couse i have mainly heard this qawali in the film sound track/movie.
regards.
Ref – Post No.84
Dear Nafisa Madam
The marvellous qawwali song ” Pardah hai Pardah…” is totally sung by our beloved Rafi Sahab alongwith chorus singers!
Thus, this song was released ” as it is ” in records of Polydor ( the then name of Music India Ltd / Universal ).
Please listen to this song from gramaphone record/cassette/ audio cd in which rafi sahab singing as ” Akbar MERA naam nahin hai…”.
But for this very song and for this particular line , the director Manmohan Desaiji while picturising it on Rishi Kapoor , got dubbed/rerecorded the line as ” Akbar TERA naam nahin hai …” by some other singer but NOT by either Rafi Sahab nor Kishoreji !
This was done as in the movie ,this particular line was filmed on Amitabh Bachchanji and thus to give a new twist to this qawwali also !
Hence, if you see the movie/ DVD/VCD , you will listen the line as ” Akbar TERA naam nahin hai…” ( for Amitabhji portion ) .
I think for this particular line , most probably a mimicry artiste or one of the music directors(laxmikant pyarelal) has sung it .
Best Regards/ A.T.M. Salim
post no. 80,
i was mistaken, regarding the qawwali from qurbani.
also about the qawwali from The Burning Train, i know it is rafi and asha, i have confirmed it now. it being a group song, there were a lot of actors, i had a notion of having heard kishore also in that qawalli (being a RDB composition)
this particular qawwali is a true gem among all great film qawallis(alongwith hai agar dushman from hum kisise kum nahin).
what about “para hai parda” from amar akbar anothony, in the middle of it a line by kishore is ‘akbar tera naam nahin hai”. i am 100% sure it is niether asha nor anwar .
Mr Bijoorjee please accept my sincere appreciation and thanks for a lovely little article on 2 of the legends of the Indian Screen in the sheer form of Rafi Sahab and Kishore Sahab. The lovely piece itself speaks volumes on the greatest friendship of these legends and there was hardly any need and necessity for a few of the dear admirers and fans to raise an unwanted issue or controversy on the subject. I definitely agree with Mr Mohanjee in his comments as posted above
A few of them have also doubted the authenticity of the article on what basis I for one am unable to understand. As far as the authenticity subject goes it may please be clarified as to which individual on earth can boast of being an historian possessing up to date knowledge especially considering the voluminous Indian Film Industry. Are there any?
Earnest request to please put an end to this monger making and instead try and understand the subject and act judiciously.
For the last few days, I have read with consternation the great debate generated by admirers of RAFI SAHAB particularly in regard to the lasting friendship that existed between two of these titanic icons of the hindi music industry namely, Mohd Rafi and Kishore Kumar. I think enough has been said and the whole issue of “who is greater” has somehow assumed an increasingly acrimonious chaos among the fans. Instead of trying to impose our views and opinions on others, it is better that we continue to respect these two wonderful human beings for their artistic superiority and the musical charm and pleasure that they have bequeathed to all the music lovers for ages to come. Comparisons lead us nowhere and we must realize that each of the two had unique and unmatched qualities of the head and heart which endeared them to millions of their fans and admirers across the world. We must realize that these two, like their many in the industry commanded great love and respect not only for their singing talent, voice but more so because of their humane qualities. It would be in the fitness of things to keep this upper most in our minds and not to allow irrational views to cloud our mind and argue endlessly on matters that are too trivial as compared to the ones which require our attention and devotion. We must remember and respect the many untold sacrifices that they have made to warm our hearts through every situation in life while they have suffered innumerable setbacks in their personal life.
LONG LIVE THESE TWO GIANTS of the Hindu Music Industry. Let us all SALUTE the Memory of both RAFI SAHAB AND KISHORE KUMAR and thank their family members for bearing so much pain and discomfort for the sake of millions of music lovers in this country and elsewhere.
Post No 80: I agree what you said. In qurbani “Kya dekte ho surat tumari” was sang by rafi and asha bhosale, but many of them was misunderstood that the song “Qurbani” the title song was sang by rafi/kishoreda. but nobody knew it was rafian clone Anwar who sang it. The song was Rafi’s but this humble singer gave a chance to the new dynamic singer Anwar with kishoreda.
Post-74
Dear Nafisa Madam
The title song of ” QURBANI” -‘ Tujhpe qurban meri jaan …’ is sung by Kishore Kumarji & Anwar and not at all Rafi Sahab -the Badshah of all playback singers !
I am surprised how you being a Rafi Sahab’s fan , can’t distinguish between the golden voice of Rafi Sahab and Anwar !!!
Secondly, the qawwali duet -‘ pal do pal ka saath ‘ of ” The Burning Train ” is sung by Rafi Sahab & Asha Bhonsleji and not by Kishoreji & Rafiji.
Regards/A.T.M. Salim
The singers like Rafi, kishore, mukesh, mannadey, hemantda and others are all legends where nobody can take their place in this film industry. Just like singers music directors were also unique. Take instance from the song “badi door se aaya hai” from samjautha how rafisaab and mukeshji sang this song in such a dedication as an yaar the way kishoreda and rafisaab sang the song “bane chahe dushman” from dostana. there is only 2 singers who sang along with rafisaab, mukeshji and kishoreda. In both the songs all 3 singers were great in their performances. So, i hear this song again and again from Amar Akbar Anthony where the 4 grt8 singers sang “Humko tumse hogaya hai pyar kya kare” by Laxmikant Pyarelalji. I feel how there was the environment in the recording studio where all 4 grt8 singers were present, mostly lovely environment was it be. Kishoreda has to respect rafisaab and mukeshji more than other singers. when mukeshji passed away kishoreda cried and just said he was genius same happened when rafisaab passed away kishoreda once again cried and said rafisaab was genius. So all 3 was grt8 human beings although they were competitive in the music field. I say that mukeshji also had grt8 respect on this 2 singers also. Rafisaab sang although all the singers at that time whether suraiyaa, geetadutt, hemantda, mannada, SDBatish, Durrani and also new singers with grt8 enthuastic he was indeed a genius singer as well as humble human being.
shashank
Post 69
Mohd is life the sun light and others like stars and moon as you know moon light more powerful than stars which comes from sun I mean for that singers who copied mod rafi there voice greater than others .
How u can forget to put mukesh name on the list and how kishore da became before manna da. Don’t read what said or wrote on news but listen by your ears and see by your eyes, Manna da can sing any song but kishore da nort like that
Kishore was great actor and singer but not be compare with Dilip Kummar or Bachchan as actor or singer as mohd rafi or manna day
Mohd rafi 100 %
Lata 90 %
others start from 80%
Sir Binu
U know more than me about mohd rafi but opn said on many interview that is biggest mistake to record songs with mohd rafi voice for two years.as he said that he is because of mohd rafi if there was no mohd rafi there was no opn……..
Post 74 Nafisa ji
Well said and the director legend Manmohan desai has quoted it in one stroke
Rafi Sahab Gayiki ke Khudaa hai and if God has any voice it will be Rafi Like
Aur iske aage kya likhen
Jai Rafi Sahab
Narayan
Baar Baar Rafi Fan Club
Bangalore
Ref Post 59: Binu Nair,
I give thanks to u for this lovely piece of information which nobody knew it. Only C Ramchandra want not one, Madan Mohan also was given chance by Rafisaab when the great composer was in bad period. I want to ask you one thing did you met Mr. C Ramchandra when he in Mumbai, because he has to stay in Poona before he left us. But another thing I want to tell that Rafi had a major competitive with Lata Mangeshkar. Rafisaab gave chance to Mahendrakapoor also some other songs when his fan was not given the chance also.
POST 67.. jkb
PLEASE NEVER MIND THE ‘MAD’ PEOPLE IN THE ENVIRONMENTS… THEY ARE PEOPLE WITH THE “grapes are sour” mentality. they will always exist.
i too have met people of this category. i have also met some very ” nice ” – people too and some very good singers. this is a very big list.
but sorry to say that i have also met some very “crude” people and singers among music lovers.
they, claim they are mohd rafi saab lovers. they can’t sing half a line properly – but still carry himalayan attitudes. they take the name of mohd rafi saaheb but have not even two percent qualities of the great rafi saaheb. nor, do they understand the great rafi saaheb.
U would be shocked to know that – few singers and jobless persons are now – going around and asking “royalties” for singing and presenting golden era songs.
what “many” have is attitude and grapes are sour mentality. ignore them is the call mr jkb .
some more songs sung by two greats
1. tuzh pe qurbaan meri jaan (Qurbani) music: kalyan ji anandji
2. pal do pal ka saath hamaara (the burning train) Music : rdb
all rafians, we should desist from making derogatory comments about other singers. Rafi is the greatest of all time. koi kuch bhi kahe usse rafi sahab ki greatness mien kuch kami nahin aa sakti. jo playback singing ka khazana woh is duniya mien chod kar gaye hain, usko sun sun kar rehti duniya tak singers sikhtey or us level ko chooney ki koshish karte rahenge.
As far as i can understand, rafi sahab himself was not a person to try n prove his superiority or greatness. he had no notion or idea that he is something extra ordinary. he just felt whatever was granted to him/achieved by him was ‘allah ki rehmat aur karam” . such humbleness and innocence in his personality which compels people (mainly celebrities) who worked with him, to pay rich tributes.
SAL
It is legend@mohdrafi.com please
Post 62
SAL
please send to this website home page email id
Narayan
Posts Nos. 54, 57 and 60 ur comments are fantastic and great, keep posting more such responses. you guys have put Rafi’s greatness in the right perspective !!!
Jai RAFI !!!
SALAMAT RAHE DOSTANA IN DONO KA (IN HEAVEN, WHERE THEY MUST BE SINGING TO GOD !!! )
this is the fact that Rafi Saab was a singer of par excellence.But it’s not fair to under estimate kishore kr. and lata ji too……….don’t use word like sun and candel…….for making comparison .as for as my music sense is concern i would rate singers in the following way…………..
1.Mohammed Rafi…………………..100%
2.Lata Mangeshkar ………………….99%
3.Asha Bhosle…………………………97%
4.Kishore kumar………………………95%
5.Manna dey……………………………90%
6.Suman kalyanpuri…………………..90%
dear rafi saab fans i have uploaded rare songs of rafi saab in you tube channel you will find,documenty ,tribute,interview of rafi saab here,also you will find some nice duet of rafi saab and kishoreda,kindly visit this links,take care
http://www.rafifanblog.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/user/mohamedparvez?feature=mhum#p/u
regards
mohamed parvez
Today (13.10.2010) India beat Australia in cricket test at Bangalore by 7 wickets. Sachin Tendulkar played a stellar role in this magnificent achievement. In fact he has been doing it for many many years now. I read a few blogs on rediff.com on this story. One person wrote that it is good that tests are over and in ODIs this selfish cricketer (Tendulkar) will not be seen. I tried to analyze the psyche of this guy. How can anyone be so critical of someone as great as Tendulkar? I realized that there are some people like that only- saying certain things for some sadistic pleasure. In the same category are some handful of (not all) Kishore Kumar fans who indulge into similar bad mouthing for Rafi saab. One such joker has written in that forum: “Bane chahe dushman – the punch is more in kishore’s voice than rafi, that makes the difference. Such type of songs require the tone and timber of kishore to make the song attractive. Just pronouncing syllable with perfection does not make the song attractive, there should be proper punch as well, which kishore displays well than rafi. Rafi fans, I can understand, the problem with them.”
It is the blatant and shameless display of a wretched mindset. The hidden sadistic pleasure that this guy is drawing can be judged by the last line he has written. This guy would not even know what this lofty terminology ‘punch in the voice’ means.
These guys use all the tools to show Rafi saab in bad light. One such guy wrote in that forum some time back that compared to Ghantasala Rafi’s rendering of ‘Kuhu kuhu bole koyaliya…’ is pedestrian. Someone needs to have thoroughly deep rooted anti-Rafi D.N.A. to use derogatory words like ‘pedestrian’ for his singing.
Basically these handful of Kishore fans have very little or no idea about Ghantasala, but they simply use this legend as a tool to give vent to their anti-Rafi mentality.
And over and above these jokers have the audacity to call themselves ‘decent’ and well behaved.
-J.K. Bhagchandani
This is for Shri P.Haldar. Thanks for writing a “samajdhari” wala article/piece. Some people just write for the heck of writing. A lot of thought has to be given before replying/refuting to someone else’s views, and one has to be truthful to oneself firstly and then only to the rest of the world. It also helps if one has knowledge about the ‘subjects’ of the article.
Haldar ji I thank you again for your knowledgeble views. Just for my curiosity, I would like to know as to whom you were refering to as Rafi sahab’s only rival, in terms of singing talent.
HEARD LATA MANGESHKAR SAYING IN AN INTERVIEW… mohd rafi saaheb had a divine voice. she had accepted that rafi saaheb was no ordinary individual.
some one said that kishore kumar defrauded the govt of taxes. the fact remains that raj kapoor, lata mangeshkar were booked for serious tax violations. but, kk was caught very badly in the web. others escaped.
the nightingale was caught with lacs of rupee currency at home. she said that it was a loan taken …. some hundi things and all that.
kk was unlucky. many of his marriages failed so he re-married. his last marriage lasted very well.
please talk of his singing, not of his personal life. thanks
MR D P BIJOOR ji, post 58, nothing could have been more modest than your presence on this website. Sorry, if my words were not gentle but that were not written on personal context but only for Rafi sahab, and I`m sure you know it for sure.
we r here only because we all love our Rafi more than what words can express it.
Bijoor ji,earnestly saying, me Really looking forward for many sweet articles from you about the sweetest maestro.
post 60 – andrea correa,
thanx – with all my grey matter – i could’nt have said it better.
in one sentence – i would describe the message in your above numberred post as –
” the lime you squeezed – has no juice left “.
thanx a billion for having written my thoughts too.
ramesh narain kurpad
rafiaarenkay@gmail.com
rameshkurpad@gmail.com
(0) 94484 55164
To the post 49.
As mentioned on my earlier post. Rafi Saab is incomparable. Legend of legend or God Sent, divine any which way you call it.
I am not saying this just because of I am a die-hard Rafi fan but like everything else in my life I do justice. I cannot make derogatory remarks on anyone else just because he overshadowed Rafi Saab for some time.
Now when you say only Lata Mangeshkar can be compared to the Great, is just does not make any reason since all people who knows music knows that Lata has her LIMITATION in singing. Even Asha is better when it comes to singing skills. You agree I guess.
Then like everything in the nature male talent is much higher than the female talent in any area (sports, singing, strength etc.). So even the best of female singer cannot come close to best of male singer, simple.
I am writing an article of my view on Rafi Saab (in fact not completed for a long time now) and will publish it in this forum (BTW who can I send this to, someone please help). That article is analyses Rafi Saabs caliber against others.
Post 51 – You said it right. A legend will have a quality in all the areas of his personality as well.
Post 54 & 59 – Binu thanks for the secret facts you brought out. Sad but true. But you know that or nothing cannot hide a real legend. Even now the trend is the same that a lot of youngsters do not know Rafi Saab but KK!
Post 57 – Good analysis, I agree with you. Your last two paras have my opinion exactly on it.
Yes……you cannot compare a torch to Sun…….never.
Rafi Saab the greatest of all singers. I bet I can prove.
Post 51 and 53 …you guys are the best.
ENJOY UR MUSIC AND SONGS. please do “compare” and also “read” between the lines. you would realise the facts.
kk was the proverbial candle . he mainly sung for two main heroes : rajesh khanna and amitabh where as mohd rafi sang for 41 years, for many actors and character artistes. pls note that mohd rafi also sang some good songs for rajesh khanna and amitabh too.
mohd rafi sang for three generations of actors namely the kapoors. it included prithviraj kapoor, raj kapoor and rishi kapoor.
no one would ever come near to mohd rafi who has created un-erasable benchmarks in playback singing.
mohd rafi during his tenure sang some 8000 songs. the other singer sang one third of it.
its isn’t nice to put oranges and apples in “same” baskets. its also nice not to compare the sun with some burning candles.
as said earlier enjoy your music and do “sensible” comparisons…
THIS IS to inform mohd rafi lovers that : rafi saaheb had the best of “regards” for each and everyone.
there were some “who” acted and behaved rather un-generously with the farishta. i know many such incidents from mohd rafi friends and admirers.
here again, rafi saab never kept any rancour or ill feelings towards them.
two examples:
o.p. nayyar saab had stopped calling mohd rafi for recordings after the latter was late for a recording.
opn had also declared that he would make one more mohd rafi. opn had failed in creating another mohd rafi.
when mohd rafi saab was in london, the phones rang . the person calling was op nayyar himself, requesting a date for a song to be sung by the farishta.
what did the farishta do ? immediately, he called his secretary and gave a date and consented to sing for opn.
another time – c. ramchandra’s career was in doldrums and he had sided with a singer with dangerous consequences – during his good times. the relations with rafi saab were less cordial as everyone now knows.
a telugu film producer came to the farishta. he in turn, recommended the producer to take c.ramchandra as the composer for the movie.
c.ramchandra was stunned by this good and mighty act of mohd rafi saaheb. c.r. cried and said you are a god for me.
this is the reason why c.r. was one of the composers who cried and cried saying “aamche rafi gele” in marathi on the departure of the farishta from the scene.
I take this opportunity to thank each one of you who have contributed their valuable views, comments and suggestions in respect of my article.
Special thanks and admiration are also due to didi priya sanyaljee for her posts 19 & 43, Harvinderjee for his post 33, p haldarjee for his post 46, binu nairjee for his post 54 and makarand sarafjee for his post 57, mainly since these posts & views has indeed given me the extra confidence in prepairing myself for other sweet articles on rafi sahab in the near future.
I sincerely value your great suggestions and expect the same cooperation from all of you in the near future.
Thanks & High Regards
This is with regards to the post no.46 by Mr.Haldar.What he says is absolutely true with regards to popularity and greatness.Kishore Kumar though was talented as a “Singer” cannot by any yardstick termed as “Great” and lets stick to “singing capabilities” only if we have to make any comparisons between Rafi sahab and Kishore.
I would like to just expand on what Mr.Haldar has said in his article.He mentions the names of the Music directors during the period in which Rafi sahab worked and if we have to look at individual contributions of these MDs vis-a-vis Kishore and Rafi then it would go something like this,there would be obviously “three” groups in this regard- one for whom Rafi was the only singer as far as male playback singing was considered and the other group who considered Kishore as a singer and the last one who never considered Kishore as a singer (so Kishore being the no.2 playback singer for them does not arise at all)
Group 1.-Rafi was the best singer for them
Naushad,Shankar- Jaikishan,Husnalal -Bhagatram,Laxmikant-Pyarelal,Roshan, O. P. Nayyar,#Madan Mohan, Jaidev, Khayyam, Chitragupta, Ravi, S. N. Tripathi, Sonik- Omi, Usha Khanna and then there are the numerous small time music directors who could never make it to the “Big League”, names like Iqbal Quereshi,Bipin-Babul,C.Arjun,Sardar Mallick,G.S.Kohli,Nissar Baazami ,Jamal Sen,Snehal Bhatkar and many many others, all names cannot be mentioned as the list is virtually endless.
All these small time composers owe a lot to Rafi sahab for making their compositions popular and all time classics.
Group 2:For whom Kishore was a non-entity as far as playback singing was considered:
Naushad,Shankar- Jaikishan,*Laxmikant-Pyarelal,Roshan, O. P. Nayyar,Madan Mohan, Jaidev, Khayyam, Chitragupta, Ravi, Usha Khanna ,C.Ramchandra and there are many others in this group for whom Kishore never existed on the playback singing radar they only used him when he was the actor himself for his songs.
*Laxmikant -Pyarelal used Kishore as a playback singer in the 70s after his rise to popularity primarily as a tool against R.D.Burman as has been documented religiously on this as well as other forums.
#Madan Mohan-He had once thrown Kishore out of the recording room the incident which everybody is aware of
For the composers in this group when Rafi could not be afforded or was not their first choice because of “Non-singing” reasons their first choice was always Mukesh,Talat or Manna Dey,Kishore was never even considered at any point of time if Rafi was not available.
Group 3: For whom Kishore was also a “Singer”
This is the smallest group of them all which includes people like
S.D.Burman:He had the “Bengali soft corner’ for Kishore which shows from his preferential treatment to Kishore in Dev Anand’s films even in the fifties but he never used him outside the Navketan banner before the 70s and for him Rafi always remained his “best and pet singer” till Aradhana happened
R.D.Burman: He “never cared for Rafi” but it was through Rafi and Shammi that he got the Biggest and first hit of his career in the form of Teesri Manzil and Ironically it was through a R.D.Burman composed film that Rafi made his grand comeback through Hum Kisise Kum Nahin in 1977
Salil Choudhary: Like S.D.Burman he also suffered from the “Bengali soft corner Syndrome” when it came to Kishore but he dared not use Kishore for playback for the fear of spoiling his songs so you find Kishore for Salil as a playback for himself only and whenever the actor was not Kishore it had to be Rafi or Talat for him depending on the actor.
Kalyanji-Anandji:
There are very few other composers who can be mentioned in this group and as you all can see the margin of victory as mentioned by Mr.Halder for Rafi being 3:1 can be safely said to be in the ratio of 10:1.
Of all the music directors mentioned above there was not a single one who would have put their money on Kishore for playback singing for performing upto their expectations and standards.They knew in their minds that he simply could not deliver the goods when it mattered and thats what Rafi was able to do for all of them consistently in his long 35 year career-deliver the goods when it mattered no matter what the genre of the song,no matter the type of the song and no matter who was the actor on whom the song was to be picturised and no matter how difficult the rendition was.He made careers of many small time MDs and actors only through his magical singing and in this regard Kishore can be said safely to be a non-entity ,you cannot simply take a name of any actor or music director and say that he was made by Kishore and because of his singing of a particular song for that person.In the case of Rafi it was exactly the opposite.He made careers of so many actors and MDs that if you have to write in that regard then you will have to make a full article on that and which has already been done by some reverred Rafians here.
I as a Rafi fan and admirer have no problem with people calling Kishore great or being a good singer but my problem with these so called Kishore fans (and i am sure there are many Rafians who will second my thoughts) is when they start comparing him to Rafi as a singer and the height of this stupidity is when they start calling him a better singer than Rafi.
There simply cannot be any comparison between the two. you cannot compare a torch with the Sun and as far as playback singing in the Hindi film industry is considered there is only one Sun and that is our beloved Rafi Sahab.No second opinions on that ,there simply cannot be.
dear bihoor
we need this kind of article ,we have to work like fevicol not like seccissor
mohd sabb and kishore da are great and we have only voice of them both
good article true article
A lot of anecdotes spread across both electronic & print media, one was such that – Kishore da and Rafi saab had maintained excellent relations all along, as such Rafi saab used to call Kishore kumar as ‘Dada’ which is normally referred to elders in Bengali language. Kishore Da did not like Rafi calling him as ‘Dada’ since Kishore Da was younger to Rafi saab by 5 years, but Rafi saab had lots of respect for him. Moreover, Rafi saab clarified to Kishore da that he always referred to all his Bengali friends as ‘Dada’. Rafi saab always reiterated that he liked Kishore’s voice because according to Rafi saab Kishore da captured the mood of the song very accurately, thus making it very effective. And Kishore da also had lots of respect for Rafi saab. Kishore da always knew he will never be able to match Rafi’s classical numbers. Moreover, Rafi saab was classically trained whereas Kishore da did not have any classical training. And even without any classical training Kishore finally made to the Top during his lifetime. One should note Rafi saab statement, after listening to song Dukhi Man Mere from the Film : Funtoosh (1956). After listening to this song, Rafi Saab was very much impressed and told Kishore da he could not have sung this song the way Kishore sang with deep emotions.
WHY WAS A PROMINENT SINGER telling the great composing duo of the seventies : ‘ AAP ACHE ACHE GAANE, ROFI KO DETE HAI ‘………….
this must be due to competitive spirit, i gather.
bijoor saaheb : no discussion on the mr-kk relationship would be complete without taking facts re: their competitive spirit . no doubt, this competition proved immensely beneficial to the listeners and their fans – ultimately.
both mohd rafi and kishore kumar were great competitors. they naturally – respected each other . the world “loved” mohd rafi saaheb for his immaculate singing, politeness and simplicity.
if mohd rafi had any real competition it was “only” from manna dey and this was stated in many write ups and interviews especially, since manna saab had an edge over mohd rafi in classical renderings. it was a tough competition all along between the male singers.
monopoly was still – far behind in actual terms. mohd rafis world tours each year also meant songs for singers which would have been sung by the farishta.
as rightly said, by s u h a n a , “post 44” , there were some high scale manipulations and corruption – during the seventies by a clique. sadly, some “eager” singers also tuned to playing “olympic level politics ” too had joined the cause.
the press led by raju bharatan played it up and received rewards in the form of explosive sales of their magazines. some radio announcers were handsomely rewarded too – for playing songs of a particular group – a vividh bharati regular announcer “told” me this recently – by which i was sad and shocked.
there was an unofficial censorship of mohd rafi songs – many, many had felt.
what we listeners could not understand “was” – how a singer of mohd rafi’s calibre would lose his singing prowess – so suddenly?
the answer was provided by the badshah himself and he also proved some singing points in the final run-up – that quality “never” fails.
from 1977 onwards there were hits, hits and hits parade of mohd rafi songs – once again.
in the months preceding rafi saabs departure in 1980, sixty % of mohd rafi songs – played in the binaca geet mala.
with the main actor of playback singing leaving the field after four decades, the quality of music also began to “leave” – its felt.
Who is Kishore Kumaaar by the way?
post 39.. MOST HONOURABLE VIKAS SHARMA… PLEASE NOTE THAT YOUR BRAIN IS LEAVING YOU. PLEASE GET A CHECK UP DONE FOR HALLUCINATIONS BY YOUR GALLI DOCTOR.
WISHING YOU GOOD TREATMENT AND TERMINATION OF THE DISEASE AT THE EARLIEST. yes. we never were missing you – silly dude.
As death and time wipes out most of the vices ordinary people gets elevated to the ranks of legends and greats.
WHO can deny that Kishore Kumar was after money, a serial womanizer and was jailed for tax frauds?? in those days state awards were not available for a dime a dozen. thus KK lost out and today the likes of saif ali khan gets it effortlessly.