True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
Badshah of Melody, mohd rafis song ” ek pate ke baat bataao, sun mere humjoli, sabse meethi, sabse sundar, boli prem ki boli ” of the seventies tuned by r.d.b. in a creative mood and picturised on amitabh bachaan is one song which has not got it’s due – during the times of “loud music” aped from western tunes and instruments.
the makers of aradhana “forgot” the essence of the musical aradhana and thus flooded the ears with western and aped music, often loud which we call – the cacophony of sounds, all in the name of music.
yes, it paid rich dividends to the composers and producers but in the long run the people were ‘missing’ the musical essence of melodious original songs.
the rise of ghazals in this phase is noteworthy.
generally speaking the quality of hindi songs took a nose-dive in the seventies with competent men like sahir, madan mohan, sd burman, shankar jaikishan, op nayyar and many gifted men either going to the other world or drying up their skills.
truly, melody took a beating especially after the advent of the angry young man known as shri amitabh bachaan and the success of films like zanzeer.
binus…. rafi foundation, mumbai. binus2000@hotmail.com
Dear Sudip,
Thanks so much for especially mentioning these songs: “Sanson Mei Kabhi”, “Akhion se tumne nindiya”, and “Ho Koi Pyar Se Tohe Deke Saanwariya”
All three are new favorites for me even though I’ve heard them only once for first time! I always get really happy when I discover a new “favorite” from the treasure troves of HFM. Rafi Sahab (and Asha) sang all three to perfection but I equally enjoyed the brilliant compositino of RD Burman in “Sanson Mein Kabhi” & LP for the song in Nirdosh. Very refreshing and evergreen tunes! Chitragupt’s composition and Rafi Sahab’s singing in the Bhojpuri number has foot tapping energy & vibrance! Great stuff!
haldarji
a relevant quotation from shakespeare is :
There is a tide in the affairs of men, which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries. On such a full sea are we now afloat. And we must take the current when it serves, or lose our ventures.
“There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.”
— William Shakespeare, Julius Caesar
And when the flood came in the form of the rajesh khanna–r. d. burman wave, kishore took full advantage of the tide. But it’s not easy; very few singers could actually do that.
Ref. Post 1973:
P. Haldar, I couldn’t agree with you more. As for Kalyanji-Anandji, their output with Rafi was spread over a period of time, just like RD. In terms of number of songs, RD has more songs with Rafi in the late 70’s/early 80’s than do KA, but KA also do have many songs with the Badshah even in that period. Also I think if you take the 70’s alone, RD would have more songs with Rafi than KA.
After Gambler, there was the qawwali “Is mulaqat ka bas maza lijiye” filmed on Dev Anand in Jaaneman composed by L-P. So we have a total of three Rafi songs filmed on Dev from 1970-1980. What a shame, after giving him jewels like Guide, Hum Dono, TGKS, Kala Pani, JPKHH, Asli Naqli, Maya, Sharabi and many more, Dev Anand decided to ignore Rafi. Look what happened when he did, the quality of his music went down the drain. I find it very hilarious when some RD fans consider scores like Ishk Ishk Ishk to be among RD and Dev’s best (and most under-rated scores). I wouldn’t be surprised if they start calling Shareef Badmash or Warrant the next great album.
I still find it surprising that SD gave Rafi only eight songs between 1970-75, whereas RD-Rafi came out with many songs and hits during that period. True, SD was not in the best of health during that period, but giving just eight songs in five years to a man who helped you reach such a high status, and helped your career in a big way, is totally unfair. I only wonder what SD would have done post-1975 vis a vis Rafi. I think he would have started hitting aces with his “first serve” once again.
Naveenji:
Thanks a ton for the prompt and detailed response. I think now I can visualise what had been going on in that phase.
Haldar sir:
Good to read your post.
Speaking of ‘mehabooba teri tasweer..’, the tune is akin to a typical “Mappila paatu” (a branch of Muslim wedding song that’s popular in Kerala.). Wonder whether SDB (or RDB) ever travelled to Kerala or they had some close Mallu friends.
May I ask you a question? What exactly caused RDB’s downfall in the mid-’70s? Was it the monotony (of voice and style) or was it the strong counter attack by LP?
Thanks Sudipji, for all the songs, many of them are new to me and some others (like aye mere mann….) I’m listening to after some gap.
Do you know when did ‘Do khiladi’ got released? Rafisahab sounds very good in the song.. young, fresh, energetic and sweet.
Speaking of Bappi and his early music, I’ve read an interview of his where he blames one producer (of a Mithun flick) for ‘westernising’ his music.. This gentleman, it seems, wanted Bappi to create music for a hero ‘who could dance like Travolta and fight like Bruce Lee’.
I’ll join you in searching for those hidden treasures….
mr. cherian,
there are several rafi songs from the 70s that were not only very popular but were qualitatively very good too. The song that heralded the 70s was ka’s “aaja tujhko pukare mere geet” (there’s a duet version with lata too) and there was no indication that rafi was not on top, even after aradhana. rd composed several hits for rafi during 1970-71, including chartbusters in films like the train and caravan. lp were always there by rafi’s side composing beautiful numbers such as “jhilmil sitaaron ka”. sj showed their class in songs like “jab bhi yeh dil udas hota hai” and “unke khayal aaye to”. And then there was sd composing that beautiful “mera man tera pyaasa” for gambler dev anand, who conveniently forgot the magic that rafi had created for him for 14 long years and turned blindly to kishore, till rajesh roshan reminded him that “logon ka dil” wanted rafi back. And what can I say about madan mohan? One after another, in heer ranjha, dastak…, he composed gems for rafi.
It’s only in 1972 that rafi’s fortunes started sliding downward and that continued till 1975. In 1976-77 he came back with a bang in laila majnu, hkkn and aaa. pancham had started his second innings with him, and a host of rafi loyalists including ravi, chitragupta and usha khanna were happy to see their man on top. For lp, rafi was pitri-saman and you could see how cleverly they were trying to switch amitabh to rafi.
The only composer who did not turn to rafi in a big way was surprisingly kalyanji anandji. I find this rather odd given the phenomenal success they had experienced with rafi in the 60s and early 70s. They hitched themselves to the amitabh bandwagon and were content to let kishore lead the way.
People can cite a number of reasons for rafi’s “lean phase” during those four or five years, but to me there are only two major factors: rajesh khanna and r. d. burman. Without either of them, there is no way kishore could have come out on top. I give full credit to kishore, though. he is the only singer in history to have given “the phenomenon” a really tough time but to me, without those two factors, there is no way he could have reached the top. All the other factors — bgm, raju bharatan, etc. etc. — are mere manifestations of the rajesh-rd-kishore wave that swept the early 70s. I feel like quoting Shakespeare here but I’d let dhani ram ji do that.
I personally don’t care about which songs were popular or not in the 70s. To me what matters now is what songs from the 70s I love to hear; they include, but are not limited to, the following:
tum jo mil gaye ho (madan mohan)
tumse kahoon ek baat (madan mohan)
kahin ek masoom nazuk si ladki (khayyam)
aaja tujhko pukare mere geet (ka)
mera man tera pyaasa (sd)
jab bhi yeh dil udas hota hai (sj)
unke khayal aaye to (sj)
door rahe kar na karo baat (ravi)
yeh duniya yeh mehfil (madan mohan)
tu is tarah se (usha khanna)
mehbooba teri tasveer (sd)
aaj mausam bada (lp)
… and many more songs by lp, ka and rd from the early 70s. And I am only talking about solos here. If you include duets, there’s a feast: jhilmil sitaron ka (lp), patta patta buta buta (lp), goriyan kahan tera desh (rd), chura liya (rd), yeh dil diwana hai (sd), teri bindiya re (sd), snaason mein teri (rr), meri hasraton ki duniya (shyamji ghanshyamji), mohabbat rang laayegi shar-a-a-a-b ahista ahista (anu malik)…
My biggest problem with the 70s is that good songs were sidelined. Even Md Rafi of the 70s is better known for Yadon ki Baraat or Amar Akbar Anthony or Hum Kisise Kum Nahin than for Amanat or Ek Nazar or Laila Majnu.
The same songs would have captured the audience of the 50s and 60s. There could be lot of sociological reasons for that. In any era, the youth predominantly defines the cultural prevalence. Being from Bengal, I can well appreciate a particular essay that talked about how the angry young Amitabh inspired the Naxalites. On similar spirit, I would not be surprised if Kishore’s style and personality inspired the rebellious romanticism of the 70s.
Here is another golden song from Kaanch aur heera (MD: ravindra jain)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU0Pi3TDmyA
It surprises me that even from movie Samjhauta, “Samjhauta Ghamon se karlo†outpipped “Badi door se†and “Koi raha na mera†in BGM.
Anilji,
Trying to answer your questions based on my own perception, some data and films made in that era.
1)
I don’t think people wanted to hear only Kishoreda in that era. Besides Rafi, Mukesh,Mahender Kapoor and to some extent Manna and SS were going strong in that time in the HFM. Rafi’s decline only appears magnified because of his prior near monopoly in the HF scene
2) Considering Rafi Sahib dated again seems to me as media generated buzz. I think section of media was busy in doing that for their own interest. In 2000 when Hritik’s first movie became a smash-hit a lot of hype followed for a year or two where media started picking on SRK .It took a few films to restore sanity….Same happened with Himesh a couple of years ago. Currently there are Aamir-SRK-AkKi wars.Tabloids have to come up with something juicy,something controversial which catches people attention…Back then I believe it was more or less the same… I again think that Rafi being such a simple person did not have a successful PR like others and let mischief mongers in media manipulate him/his works.
3) I think BGM was a good marketting and promotional program. People had lesser choices..besides watching the movies and listening to other radio programs there wasn’t much of an outlet…So around the time of movie release BGM played a critical role..Ameen Sahni in that sense was very powerful in what he played. Eventually movie’s box office results and also music sales gave the true saleability of the artist or a work…And in that sense Rafi was doing reasonably well if not the best.
4) All the songs you mentioned were hits and people enjoyed them.It is not that they were discovered years latter.Aaj Mausam and Teri Galiyon were even on Binaca Annuals in their respective years. Teri Galiyon was perhaps at a respectable no 10 or so and Aaj Mausam towards the late twenties of that year. It is no secret that Ameen Sahni was not very receptive to Rafi’s works in those years , but when the films also do too well there is a limit to what he could do. For Hathi Mere Saathi , the promotional song was Kishore’s Chal Chal Mere Haathi was scored top 3 or top 4 on BGM, but having said that other songs including Rafi Nafrat Ki Duniya were also popular. To give you an example when we think Dil Se of 1998, Chanya Chanya was catchy and a popular number but the fact is that all the songs too were popular too.There is a also a limitation for the charts to pick up a number or two from a movie. Can you imagine My Name is Anthony Gonzolves was not in the annual Binaca charts of 1977 while as Amar Akbar and Anthony song was.So I think BGM mostly served as an initial promotional entity and often times there is an element of subjectivity involved in there.
5. Well if you look at the most successful movies of that time, KKs success was somewhat alloyed and ….many hit movies of the time barring a few had multiple singers on board that just KK. He may have been the spice but not necessarily the only staple of the movies made during that phase.
top 5 movies from 1970 to 1976 illustrate the point.
1970
Johny Mera Naam Kishore
Sachaa Jhutha Rafi Kishore
Aan Milo Sajna Rafi Kishore
Purab Aur Paschim MK, Mukesh
Jeevan Mrityu Rafi
1971
Haathi Mera Saathi Rafi Kishore
Mera Gaon Mera Desh Rafi
Dushman Kishore
Maryada Rafi Kishore Mukesh
Andaz Rafi Kishore
1972
Seeta Aur Geeta Kishore Manna
Pakeezah Rafi
Raja Jani Kishore
Beimaan Mukesh, Kishore, MK
Gora Aur Kala Rafi Mukesh
1973
Bobby Shalider Singh, Manna, Chanchal
Jugnu Kishore
Daag Kishore
Zanjeer Rafi, Manna
Yaadon Ki Baraat Rafi, Kishore
1974
Roti Kapada Aur Makaan Mukesh, MK
Chor Machaye Shor Rafi, Kishore
Dost Rafi, Kishore
Prem Nagar Kishore
Bidaai Kishore
1975
Sholay Kishore Manna
Jai Santoshi Maa- Manna,MK
Sanyasi Mukesh
Deewaar Kishore
Pratiggya Rafi
1976
Dus Numbri Mukesh/Manna
Laila Majnu Rafi
Nagin Rafi Kishore MK
Hera Pheri Kishore MK
Charas Rafi Kishore
Thanks
Naveen
Naveenji:
I have some querries about ‘that’ phase of HFM. If you don’t mind, let me ask some of them:
1. Did the common HFM listeners want to hear only Kishoreda?
2. Was Rafisahab considered dated (by the common folks)?
3. Was BGM and other such programmes the only medium of judging the popularity of songs, those days?
4. Did the common folks sing/hum songs like ‘aaj mausam…..’, ‘nafrat ki duniya…..’, ‘tere galiyon mein…..’, ‘dukh mein sab saathi…..’ etc.?
5. Was it generally believed that KK songs could make hit films and/or Rafisahab songs couldn’t?
Thanks in advance.
Few others:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VlY5pEYFDI (a favorite of mine)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rosl6zfzS4Q (a typical RD tune used later in Izazat)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj7cFVVWZig (I posted this earlier..Vibrant and youthful voice)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sW__AbC70oY (beautiful blending)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26m4vKhGAqM
Post 1787,
Sudipji…thanks a ton for sharing these great songs.Rafi Sahib’s works never fail to amaze me.Whenever I think that I might have heard him all, I nonetheless find some
great ones coming my way. My desire is to listen to all the recordings of Rafi Sahib
in my lifetime. That Bappi Lahiri SJ style song and Bhojpori one was new to me.Thanks
to you again
However I have couple of comments to make:
1) Only two songs (Sanjeev Kr songs) are from 72-76 period. So reference to Kishore seems misplaced in the songs posted by you. Of these two Nayi Din Naya Raat is only a movie in this time period which is worth a recall.Kishore also had Krishna Krishna Bolo in this movie. None of the songs created a craze though. Rafi song in this movie was good .Kishore’s okay as well.Same goes for Lata and Asha numbers.Overall a week score.Sanjeev’s acting was praiseworthy.
2) I think Kishore wave was reinforced and magnified by Amin Sahni’s Geetmala program. Songs from Amanat have been ever popular right before the movie was late released.It is another matter that Binanca Geetmala might not have played them.But again considering Amanat songs vis-a-vis Kishore wave is not perhaps a fair thing to do…the texture of the song was essentially of sixties. That leaves an exception of Tum Jo Mil gaye hoo.This is Ameen sahinis goof up.It is not that this or other Rafi songs from Haste Zakham became popular latter.They were popular even at the time of release. Ameen and Binaca grossly misrepresented Rafi on the charts those years. Binaca program served more as a marketing too .Even Kishore’s best songs were sacrificed over some mundane ones.I think data from music collections and box office collections far accurately gauges popularity of an artist.And in that regards Rafi still had managed to remain second most sought after male playback singer in that period (71-75). Like Rafi songs in this era which went unnoticed there are tons of Kishore’ songs too which didn’t get noticed. Perhaps some of them deserved to be. The reasons like quality of the composition,box office fate of the movie et al all contribute to the fate of a song. And yet there are some like Shankar Hussein songs which just on the strength of the composition and rendition remain perennial favs even though of a highly selective audience.
Thanks
Naveen
I am trying to dig up how many beautiful Rafi songs got submerged in the Kishore wave of 72-76.
Binuji/Anil: it will be great if you can find producers to release some of them in popular movies (starring Grade 1 actors, otherwise they will again be left in background).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jiyUKV8bQQ (typical LP number)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNs9aUE_gq4 (SJ re-run of Ajeeb Dastan hai yeh..I am not sure what happened in this rather obscure movie, but the music was shared by SJ and Roshan. Did Jai die in course of this?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agq4Aul8u34 (though an 80s number, superb composition)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2mdN3i8DF8 (60s style blues number, surprisingly by Bappi Lahiri)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPm_h9gKBag (Need I say more about this beauty)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC5tH8DXQFc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IViTkddPdaI (to me, the best sung Bhojpuri number. In terms of the exhilarating spirit that Rafi brings out, this is even ahead of Nain lad jai hai. Picturized on Sanjeev Kumar )
It is tragic that numbers like ‘Door rehkar na karo” or “Tum jo mil gaye ho” were also impacted by the KK-craze.
Talat Mahmood sings a song of Mohd Rafi or i can say Mohd Rafi sung Talat Mahmood song because it was sung by great Talat Mahmood sings before great Mohd rafi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zslcMFPf1k&feature=related
and KK sings Mohd Rafi song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd1_yG9k11w
dear fans I don’t want you to compare but jest enjoy both songs
KK tribute to Mohd Rafi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd1_yG9k11w
toufique sahib
manna da is very great,sincere and honest indeed. a very great singer himself and thoroughly versed in classical music,he is a very keen judge of music. he knows where merit lies and doesn’t hesitate to proclaim it. in interview after interview he has eulogised rafi sahib. he has never suggested even by an innuendo that he was rafi’s equal in any genre including the classical.it is recognition by a very great artist of the true merit of another artist of towering stature like whom the world may never see again.
Binu sir:
One can’t really blame the Mallus for mistaking Raviji as one of their own, Raviji’s songs had the best “Malayalam flavour” of all the songs composed around that time. I’ve read an interview by our beloved poet ONV (who is a big-time Rafi-fan, by the way), where he describes his first meeting with Raviji. ONV thought Raviji had come to Malayalam film industry with a handful of tunes (AKA Salilda), but it turned out that he wanted to create fresh tunes which were typically ‘Malayalee’ and jolly me, what great pieces he created for us.
Here are a couple of them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAe2AoKtuig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMtpERmnj_M
Composer Ravi Shankar Sharma’s distinguished neighbour:
The next door neighbour to Vachan : composer ravi’s residence is the “distinguished” bunglow of veteran shri shakti samanta.
the samanta named bunglow is today has an eerie silence for the household owner is seriously ill – old age of course and in Nanavati Hospital. We pray for him.
the hit musical Shammi starrer china town had music by neighbour composer ravi . the producer being shri shakti samanta.
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Jai ho, Jai ho…………
i think the oscar goras only understand and have musical ears for “european style music” which we term as “WESTERN’.
THIS is the reason why, why asian music has not got any oscars previously. and, by the way there are hfm songs that are twenty times more soulful than jai ho, jai ho. aar knows this.
we will not know the fate of Jai ho Jai ho, six months on – but we are sure that many songs of our golden era music will go on for many decades more.
jai ho golden era of hindi film music.
binus..
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Ravi Shankar Sharma, Dhaniram ji and all my music friends: March 3rd was a day of bliss and happiness for us.
for, it was the birthday of shri Ravi Shankar Sharma popularly known as composer Ravi. ( Keralites know him as Bombay Ravi and also think that he is a Keralite, a malayali – for he has given some great songs akin to chaundvin ka chaand to malayalam films.)
the singers to benefit is yesudas, the mohd rafi of the south. and chitras first ever song was recorded by Bombay rafi and the song being : Manchal prasadaoom nethil chaarthi, a runaway hit .
back to ravi saahebs birthday. we met him at 1.30 p.m on march 3rd and the 80 something composer greeted us with choice sweets like barfis and some kheer.
then the discussions started. about chaudvin ka chaand song and many of his compositions.few lines of his malayalam songs by yesudas was sung by “yours truly” and ravi saaheb was pleased. (it was the first ever effort and it passed muster).
composer ravi is loved by malayalees and i am sure that there would be a stampede in kerala, if ever the composer sets his foot in kerala.
the discussions centred around music and mohd rafi. there are two songs of ravi saaheb and they are birthday songs, very popular sung by mohd rafi. which are they ? music connossieurs may write in.
it was a pleasant afternoon on march 3 after meeting a legend whom the world will never forget.
binus
Manna Dey on Rafi:
Those who can read bengali, can enjoy the following interview of manna dey. it was published in a prominent bangladeshi daily. here he talks about his life, hindi music, tagore’s songs etc.
http://www.prothom-alo.com/archive/news_details_fcat.php?dt=2009-03-06&issue_id=1211&cat_id=&nid=MzYxNzc=&fid=MTY=
i m translating the portions related to rafi.
” — there hasn’t been any singer like rafi in the indian subcontinent. i m talking about light music — there is no singer like rafi. thats why i took it for granted that if i had competed with rafi i could have gone a little further, but ultimately i could not have won. —and rafi – his gayaki, his style – was fantastic.—”
about favorite singers, ” mohammad rafi and lata mangesker. i would say that in the world of music there hasn’t been any singer better than rafi. —-“
Ref Post 1772,
“In my opinion film makers like Bimal Roy, Rishikesh Mukhrejee, B R Chopra & Shakti Samant in the 50s and 60s are far more appealing”
This is too much my friend (a hyperinflated appreciation for those four filmmakers). May be since all of Satyajit’s movies are in bengali, you did not realize that. Art is not all about social issues. Portraying a monster as a monster is not art, portraying a monster as a human being is art (ex, The Godfather).
I have seen most of the movies of those four. they are entertaining. But art? No way! In the list of world’s best directors he is ranked 26th (kuroswa 6th).
And let’s face it: most of the people in india are poor. how come we exclude them from filming? srk,aamir,salman,hrithik naver played a rural character!!!
post 1776 , in my home tv the electronic media blares out more masala and controversies about raakhee sawants, deepika padukones, amitabh his son and daughter in law along with his wife and amar singh, shah ruks javed khans and many others.
they rarely ever discuss the works of satyajit ray, mohd rafi, bimal roy, naushad, majrooh sultanpuri, sahir, s.h.bihari, kaifi azmi, balraj sahni, guru dutt, talat mehmood, k.l. saighal and many of our legends.
what’s wrong in discussing about legends who workd with the great singer and philantrophist shri Mohd Rafi.????
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In my complete retirement (if it happens) i will see all the works of shri satyajit ray – for they are bliss.
and it will take me many a birth to enjoy the complete works of kl saighal, talat mehmood, mohd rafi , lata mangeshkar. i pray for this.
binus…..
anilji and singh sahib
thanks for your illuminating posts. i am trying to pick up some telugu and malayalam only to be able to enjoy music in these languages. i find that many malayalam songs of today also are very good.yesudas’s voice i can recognise at once and have heard many of his songs.my younger brother who is thoroughly familiar with both southern and northern music ( having lived in north india for the first 30 years and thereafter in tamil nadu till this day at the age of 55 ) is a great fan of rafi and yesudas.he adores both of them. he keeps supplying me cds of southern music so that i have a reasonable collection of ghantasalaji and yesudas sir.i enjoy listening to both of them without understanding a word of what they sing.
recently i have started listening to bengali songs also.that is a more familiar turf.i can understand a bit of bengali. and i find that bengali music too is sweet. still i am veering round to the view that south indian music is of a superior quality as it is much closer classical tradition in spirit. in any case,in the midst of sweetness,there is that monstrosity called today’s songs. on hindi channels it is just english music ( or just a repulsive hybrid ) in hindi language.quite often i have to strain myself to catch words of the songs. it is just screaming,shouting and yelling. i am reminded of a beautiful rafi number: teen kanastar peet peet kar gala phad kar chillana yaar meere mat bura maan yeh gaana hai na bajaana hai.
again i am glad that some indians have honoured with oscars but as binus sir has said indian music has been insulted.binus says that every third song of the great maestros of hmf would qulify for oscar nomination. let me go a step further: every second south indian song deserves nomination for an oscar. and bengali music is not to be left behind.
All of us seem to enjoy only controversies. earlier it was Rafi vs Kishore, and now this site which is supposed to be only about rafi sahab’s songs is now going into Satyajit Ray!!!!!!!
Many people like me may feel like moving out of this site altogether.
For God’s sake please do not go into such contoversies-our electronic media is already taking care of this by airing non-stop idiotic controversies.
Sorry if I have hurt anyone ,but I feel discussing Satyajit Ray in Rafi sahab’s site is absolutely irrelevant,
siva
Dhaniram Sir:
The golden rea of Malayalam film music starts somewhere in the mid-60s and ends somewhere in the late’70s (though we’ve had some terrific music in the ’80s and ’90s as well).
Let me provide links to a few songs for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qA1lqa5psE
This one’s composed by Devarajan (master). He to Yesudas sir is what Naushad saab is to Rafisahab. The lyrics are from our great poet (and not just film lyricist) Vayalar Rama Varma and the voice off course you’ll be able to recognise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgRcaC8Acy4
Another gem from the same trio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYiKWrha-40
This one’s originally from a late ’60 movie, reproduced by the same singers (Das sir & Janaki) in a concert. The composer is Baburaj (whose songs have a distinct ‘Hindustani’ touch). I’ve read that Naushad saab was so much impressed by this song that he hugged Baburaj when they met somewhere.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trk5pFilsns
This is a Salilda composition (he was quite prolific in the ’70s in Malayalam film industry).
post 1771 – Dhaniram ji,
I fully agree with your views. I appreciate your view on telugu cinema. Let me share the views which have been provided by various analysts.
You are correct about the telugu cinema and its great playback singers and I endorse your views therein. I also agree that special focus was certainly laid on religious and mythological factors and N T Rama Rao, who was an incomparable specialist in roles such as Sri Rama, Sri Krishna, made a distinct contribution. Other very great actors such as S V Ranga Rao, Savitri etc, also fit into the same description. The area of religious and mythological themes is altogether a different league and has a distinct specialisation in its own way and it can be said with certainty, (as earlier swamy ji and others have mentioned), that the only telugu cine field excels in this area. Moreover, these themes had a great lyric and singing culture which are called padyams ( song form sung in a dramatic style and which requires special training as it is one of the special forms of music). Some of the telugu films have 100-150 padyams in one single movie (just a astonishment) and NTR was a specialist in dialogue delivery of these renderings too which no other actor excelled. And padyam rendering ghantasala was obviously supreme followed by p b srinivas and others. And also as you said the classical style of concentration in film playback singing played a special role (many producers opted for that may be due to ghantasala specialisation/attraction factor in this regard). This was not only in telugu, but this classical factor you will find in tamil, kannada and malayalam too (jesudas influence factor subsequently)
A Nageswara Rao was a classic in doing social & romantic movies and he did not fit into religious and mythological roles unlike NTR, SV Ranga Rao etc. NTR was well placed in both social as well as religious movies. Telugu film world was thus a mixture of everything, of course, with special effect on religious & mythological themes as you rightly said. So all put together, this great era in telugu films was from 50-70 where all combinations came together and produced genius contributions special in their own way.
On the other hand, hindi films had a distinct specialisation from romantic and social point of view while concentrating lesser on religious and mythological themes ( I have seen mahabharat wherein vyjayanthimala acted as draupadi, veer bheemsen, mahabali hanuman etc. in hindi) and as many said the distinct contribution in hindi too lands in between 50-70 with great actors ranging from kumars to kapoors and great singers ranking from rafi ji to kishore kumar etc. And specially the romantic compositions of hindi during this period wherein rafi ji was obviously the leader has a special contribution. The rafi – lata duets from that period continue to mesmerise even today as we all know. Whether in hindi or telugu, the original talent and distinct contribution from films was supreme in its own way in the 50-70’s and it has no comparison. That is all.
Hi Sudip and Toufique,
Good posts. Ray’s Apu trilogy is the story of a poor family but it never feeds off the poverty. Also, it must be kept in mind that the Apu trilogy was made in the mid-50’s when the living conditions were vastly different from what it was in the ’90’s and ’80’s.
“Pather Panchali” is one of the most poignant movies I have ever seen, in any language. It’s beautiful and a masterpiece.
Comparing Mira Nair to Ray is a travesty.
Ref – 1769 Sudip Ji,
I have seen most of the Satyajit Ray films. I my opinon film makers like Bimal Roy, Rishikesh Mukhrejee, B R Chopra & Shakti Samant in the 50s and 60s are far more appealing, since they make films on social issues that best incorporated with power full music of course.
Plus Satyajit Ray perhaps is more famous compared to the above mentioned film makers, may be he got a lot of appreaciation from the West. In terms for work and success in film making, I rate the above film makers no less than Ray.
singh sahib and others
during the past six months i have dovoted a lot of time to listening to telugu (mainly) and malayalam ( some ) film music.despite linguistic barrier i have enjoyed south indian music immmensely. as with hindi music, it seems to me the goldern era of telugu music was in 50s and 60s with ghantasala,suseela,s janaki, srinivasa etc as its leading lights. i have noticed one thing more.south indian film music is quite deeply steeped in classical tradition which gives it a distinct character. is it because of a large number of movies on religious and mythological themes ?
kishore kumar is the “compact disk” which is the outcome of
jelous people who want to vanish rafi saab from hindi cinema
at that time.that is why these people did not hear and dont want
to hear good music.according to me as far as voice quality is
concerned,kks successor kumar sanu’s voice is better than kk
and even his son amith kumar’s sound is better than kk.
Anmol Singh,
Half a knowledge is a dangerous thing. You have no idea of what Satyajit Ray films were about. You are drawing impression from the Apu trilogy which showed the beauty of human relationship in the midst of poverty. It was not a documentary on poverty only.
Have you seen Charulata or Jalsaghar (Music room) or Seemabaddha ( Company Limited)? All three had to do with the rich..
Or for that matter, Jana Aranya (The Middleman) or Mahanagar (the Big City)? Those had to do with the middle class.
Or Sakha Prosakha ? Or Agantuk ? Both had to do with upper middle class.
If you have not seen these, I suggest you do. Ray was generations ahead of any other Indian film director. The poignancy in his art was exemplary..
Comparing Mira Nair or anyone else with Ray is like comparing Munna Aziz with Rafi.
ref no post 1761.
I can’t agree with you regarding Satyajit ray. He did not show poverty. his films are like portrait, when you see you do not see the poverty, you see the inner beauty — you see the stamp of an artist. i watched all of his movies and quite confident to claim that among all the asian film directors he is only second to Kurosawa. Satyajit’s movies have very different storylines. they are not about poverty.
AAR GOES TO NAUSHAD SAAHEB: AR REHMAN KNOWS “WHO” CAN make good music, real music. more, he is a very humble and god fearing man.
few years back aar got a film offer from a big banner . it was a movie with a muslim background. aar knows his limitations and he approached naushad saaheb to partner him in the movie. naushad saaheb politely declined to partner aar but assured him that he would guide him “free of cost”, he would go to chennai at his cost and support aar.
the movie would have been “Jodha Akhtar” i presume.
Anmol Singh had made a perceptive point several months ago when explaining why music in the 80s went downhill so fast. MDs today are somewhat limited by the movies they are composing for. “Yeh Mera Prem Patra” has no place in a movie like “Paap”. I’d give this consideration when evaluating AR Rahman.
Hi fans,
I don’t know why you people speak about Awards!!!!!!!As I think the true award is come by God as our Mohd Rafi got it because if you ask who don’t like Mohd Rafi when was the best music in Bollywood and from when stopped coming good music the answer will be the best music was in 1960’s when our Mohd rafi sang most of songs and when good music stopped the answer is in 1980’s…………….
There was/are many great singers and there will be but God gift like Mohd Rafi never be………..
As we know about Lata Ji is great but I don’t think she is greater than mr Bachchan or Pran or Naushand Ali or Madan Mohan or SJ or Mohd Rafi or KK or Mukesh or Raj Kapoor or many more in the list of bollwood but these all great people they never received Bharat Ratna award but Lata Ji got it!!!!!!!!I think if some one in this site will agree that Lata Ji should has award before Mohd Rafi I think that person will not agree that Lata Ji should has it before Bachchan or Raj Kapoor or……………but lata jo got it………
As I think if we put by numbers the who should get more award in Bollywood as I think it should be like this 1,Mohd Rafi 2,SJ 3,Bachchan 4,Lata Ji 5,Naushand Ali 6,Madan Mohan(as I think)
Well done All White Marketing Men of Slumdog Millionaire. u all have done your jobs quite well, very competently.
it’s a lesson to be learnt for aamir khan, shah rukh khan and many others craving for the o s c a r s – that they employ whites as their marketing pointsmen for ‘effective lobbying’ and bringing many more oscars to this land.
and, in the changed economic scenario, the goras would be ready to work for half their previous charges. cheers. its advantage from all corners. long live the republic.
binus…. mumbai… cell :+9122 – 9833 250 701
I’m no fan of ARR. I like Indian music as well as Western but not the kind churned out by ARR. He has composed some nice songs like ‘kannalane…’ (kehna hai kya in Hindi) as he emerged into the scene. But his contribution to Indian film music for the last 7-8 years is nothing great if we speak about quaity or even variety. Additionally, he has removed a major ingrediant of the Indian film song- the voice and style of the singer- from the scene. A ARR song is a ARR song, not the singers’ song.
Singh saab and other music lovers, greetings to all.
It is a long time since we have exchanged views. Nothing was more bigger as a joke when I saw the oscar drama. Perhaps oscar like awards are fit only for “such presentations” which were presented at the ceremony.
Golden filmy playback singing, as some have said here, is only from 50’s to 70’s. I agree with shri singh saab too (for telugu). Gone is gone and the golden era cannot be replaced or compared with any subsequent times. I am sure the oscar committee will forget about the awards when they hear the Indian music of the golden era. After the oscar event, I felt convinced in myself thinking that the golden era of music is like a divine revelation to the music world and the same cannot be counted or compensated for so called not anything than smaller awards……..
Ref to Post – 1758
Apart from Mira Nair even Satyajit Ray also falls in the same category. Plus he has also been facilitated by an Oscar for life time achievement for showing poverty in his films.
Music lovers,
Nothing prejudice or personal against Sri A R Rehman or slumdog millionaire. With due respects to A R R, I wish to state that he has not even a single hit song in telugu films. A R R was a flop in telugu, he hardly did 2 to 3 movies that too without any lack lustre. In fact, no telugu man even cared when this oscar award was announced. A R R might have got credit for few numbers in tamil but even with those numbers, many past music lovers are not comfortable, Anyhow, it is a fact, that the golden era of 50-70’s of music be it hindi or telugu, has its own stamp and charm and no artist / other connected organisation(s) of today whether Indian or foreign has the capability or skills to ever come nearer to that era. Getting recognition is a different matter, which may not always happen with ” real true and accomplished talents in an golden and accomplished era”.
The OSCARS : Re : Post 1753 on this topic – between the lines I did’nt say that our golden era songs would have got the OSCARS. Every “third” song of our great composers would have been “in the race” for oscars. winning is a distant thing dear music lovers.
My heart says that : Shankar-Jaikishan, salil choudhury, naushad, madan mohan and many like them created unique, immaculate and innovative “background scores” coupled with immortal songs during their time which wil survive for ages.
the oscar winnner “Jai HO” is sure to be forgotten, buried in the shortest time but lata’s : aayega, aayega, aanewaala will last forever.
sure, great songs will not get big awards, sandeep nadkarni saaheb. one reason for this is that there are not “goraas”, i mean whites in the marketing business to promote the great songs sung by our legends and composed by legendary composers.
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai: binus2000@hotmail.com
The Oscars are manipulated and lobbied, just like any other award. But, because they re hosted by the USA, they carry more weight than other awards. And that is indeed unfortunate. At the Univ. I am in, in California, one of my American colleague told me how the lobbying is done.
Personally, I couldn’t care less about these or any other awards.
Slumdog Millionaire is not made by an Indian and is therefore not an Indian movie, at least for me. It just reinforces the White man’s impressions of India – a country full of slums, poverty etc. But, personally, I am more disillusioned with our own film directors like Mira Nair who exploit these impressions and make movies that highlight poverty, struggle, slums etc. and then gain international recognition and win awards.
post 1753
please don’t lose your head binuji. afterall mediocrity is the virtue of asses and an old saying in hindi loosely translated means a monkey cannot enjoy the taste of ginger. this is what happens where/when idiots abound. some day, i am sure someone will come and teach us what hindusthani music is all about.
Post 1753 – Dear Binujee
It was nice to read your views on the OSCAR awards. Since the past 50 long years there is hardly any contribution from our Industry worth the Oscar committee assumptions & hence as per their criteria no Indian has ever won the coveted award which is self explanatory.
Then why such hue & cry on the subject Mr Binujee I for one cannot understand
On the very simple terms when our own Government & the industry as a whole have been unable to recognize the true talent & appreciate the hard work put in by several great artists why do we expect the Oscar Committee to felicitate these greats.
Simple equation when Slumdog can win so many Oscars then in that case Aamir Khans Tare Zameen Par & Lagaan should have won the Oscars in almost all the departments
Binujee of late even the Oscars are observed to have been manipulated like the ones our several hindi film awards stand today. They hardly have any worth the caliber.
For the matter of fact is an award the only criteria for ones good & hard work ? My answer will be big NO
sudipji
thanks for pointing out the article.wherever there are cognoscenti,rafi is held supreme.lata’s own sister usha mangeshkar also considers rafi to be matchless.
@ binu ji:
jai ho was a mediocre song in my opinion…
if they had listened to the songs of guide they would have gone mad.
SHAMEFUL : OSCAR AWARDS COMMITTEE (all whites) have insulted Indian Music for the last fifty years when they failed to “listen” to “Original” indian compositions.
If they had cared to listen to indian music, every third song of Naushad ji, Shankar Jaikishan, Roshan and many others would have been in the race of the OSCARS Awards – for original music.
Every third song of K.L.Saighal, Mukesh, Lata – Rafi , Talat-Manna Dey would also have been in the race for quality and unsurpassed singing.
Alas, there was no white producer and the alll whitee Marketing Personnel in the above mentioned period to listen and promote our ‘ORIGINAL MUSIC’.
Only Gandhi and Slum ka Kutta – millionare had it. enjoy, celebrate and allow them(the whites) to go smiling to the banks at the cost of indian music.
cheers……………..
binus
Prabhanjan:
It’s no surprise that Kishoreda never won the National award. For one thing he wasn’t taken very seriously as a singer per se by the ‘class’. He was mostly considered as a great entertainer who was a big hit with the mass. And his better songs (mostly) came out in typical run-of-the-mill films which never really came into consideration for the award. Among his clones, it’s Abhijeet who had some semblance of a chance to win a National award (He was the only one who had a tolerable voice and who could sing, somewhat).
KK winning a National award had to be as unlikely an event as Rajnikant winning one.
Speaking of KK clones, it’s sad his son couldn’t sustain his career. To me, he’s better than the others (Sanu, Rathod, Sudhesh Bhosle et al)
And you are right regarding Kumar Sanu vis-a-vis KK. Sanu’s time came after Kishoreda’s demise. In the mid-late ’80s it was Rafi-clones (Aziz and Shabbir especially) who shared the stage with KK. I don’t think these two were eating into KK’s share, rather KK was being rather choosy (the way Das sir and SPB sir have been doing of late).
P.S: No disrespects meant to either Kishoreda or Rajnikant. These two have entertained millions and will continue to do so.
post 1742 .if neyyer sab had given the song manu mora …to kishore kumar it would have been a great blunder to his music carrier. firstly kishore had no classic background secondly his sound quality is very poor compared to rafi,mukesh, talath, mahendra and mannadey