True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
To post 2445
Bhushan Ji
I understand your concern in your post. Let me tell you in this way. you heard P.Susheela in Telugu, her voice resides in your sub-conscious mind and you also hear Rafi in Hindi singing, even that also in your sub-conscious mind. when you listen both the singers what you feel P.Susheela is redering in correct diction whereas Rafi who is alien to the language you feel odd about it where your sub-conscious mind will accept Rafi in Hindi only and other than Hindi you feel as if it is an odd thing not perfect as telugu singer. this only language wise but in singing technicalities no doubt the supremacy of Rafi is always there and his singing prowess can not be doubted.
Even the samething when S.P. Balu sings in Telugu and at the same time in hindi with lata ji I feel the same thing that balu’s diction is not as perfect as Lata ji. it is psychology, there is nothing wrong about it.
Even I listened Rafi in Hindi and when I heard him in Telugu I myself personally feel not as perfect as Ghantasala whose telugu singing is residing in my sub-concious mind where I recognize both the things perfectly. Likewise I hear S.P. Balu in telugu and it is in my subcocious mind that his telugu songs are perfect but when he sings in hindi I feel him odd in Hindi, it means I will not appreciate him as much in Telugu rather in Hindi. It is general psychology only nothing more than that.
But once you come up above all these things just listen to these singers as unbiased music lover you feel the difference and will not have any feeling. This is just my observation and opinion. I do not want all should accept this thought.
2445- Bhushan ji and Walijah ji
Rafi ji’s telugu song – Naa madi ninnu pilichindi ganamai – venu- ganamai from film Aradhana (telugu film) -1976 – Rafi ji separates the word venu and ganamai which is diluted if one looks at the essence of the song from the telugu angle – venuganam word should be pronounced in one word in that song – otherwise the essence and flow of song is missing there. It does not matter whether the raga or tala adjustment needed that (due to which the wording was adjusted – i am aware of this) but the essence is diluted due to that. Ghantasala would have adjusted that word bringing tala into adjustment there as he did such experiments in mayabazar (sundari nee vanti song – to adjust tala he introduced a laugh for relangi in the last para along with savitri without compromising on the words) – Being a music director, that was an advantage for ghantasala – for the words adjustment as well.
contd… forgot one point,
subsequent greats in the southern music had to compulsorily adapt to such style which was first created by ghantasala in playback singing i.e. mixture (playback vs carnatic) – one will find spb, kj yesudas and others in the south following such style.
Walijah ji and dear friends,
Both ghantasala and rafi were evergreen legends. But I find the difference in one special way. Classical musicians (reputed ones specially) do not generally appreciate playback singing – it is looked as cheap when compared to classical singing – true as it is the mother of playback singing, which has its base from classical singing only. the difference I could find is that ghantasala made classical music very interesting to a common man and equally made playback singing too very interesting to a classical musician (who generally looks down upon playback singing) – this is the main reason ghantasala is appreciated equally by common man as well as classical musicians. He created that charm by successfully creating a style – perfect playback singing with a mixture of excellent classical technical rigour charms – He gave classical style attractions to playback singing without compromising the requirements of playback singing at any point – that was his unique style, which made his renditions to be appreciated by both sections. One do not find such favour for any hindi playback singer from reputed hindusthani musicians, neither is any common man from hindi language is so interested in classical hindusthani music – as such mixture of attraction created by ghantasala in southern music, was not created anywhere. That is the difference I note.
Anil Cherian
I do not feel anything about K J yesudas when I hear rafi singing, to be precise rafi is clearly more attractive than kjy (he is a great singer, no doubt about it in malayalam film music) but I do not think both need to be compared, if compared, if one listens to kjy hindi songs – rafi is quite ahead, no doubt about it. According to me, rafi and ghantasala were well matched, and the latter had a voice which definitely had the style of kishore as well as rafi (in various of his songs depending upon the requirement) as some pointed out here and songs requiring technical rigour/specialisation, ghantasala was quite ahead of all others (putting together his special voice factor). I had heard that KJY is also very well trained in carnatic music, but I have never heard KJY singing any song which is technically very difficult like the one’s siva sankari (this one is not only composed in 3 octaves but is a mixture of wonderful taans with great speed and high pitch rendition) or syamala dandakam of ghantasala in films – even in malayalam film music. It would be interesting if you share songs of such nature from KJY – just for listening as music lover. Of course, individual tastes differ, some might term it as subjective etc. but when I hear chal ud ja re panchi by rafi and telugu version of ghantasala, i loved ghantasala’s version better, probably due to the punch and technical style he puts in that song as compared to rafi – the ending taan in the song also ghantasala has lot of punch as compared to rafi, and ghantasala rendered it in a very sophisticated way. This is only my observation, one may like or dislike that. I do not think KJY has shared any common song with rafi, as rafi and ghantasala shared.
Walijah sir ji, salaam
You are grossly mistaken sir. I was talking about the Bhale tammudu issue in 1969 – Not akbar salim anarkali in 1979 – I do not think rafi matched p suseela in diction as well as pronounciation both in bhale tammudu as well as akbar salim anarkali. Sipahi o siphai song – P suseela is simply marvellous as compared to rafi. I won’t say rafi was off the track, but he was as well not that attractive in the song, if compared with his hindi style of singing. His hindi style/culture itself is found in telugu songs too, which actually should not be. The style and culture should be one of telugu style and culture, which is clearly missing in his songs, as compared to p suseela. That was what I was meaning and I never pointed out rafi from his hindi style – never. I think I am able to make the things clear sir. I had even mentioned that even some telugu singers could not be fully effective, so no point need to be made against rafi ji.
Harvinder,
Good post – 2444 – you are correct, both kishore’s as well rafi’s voice was a mixture of ghantasala’s voice which he was gifted with and with his style created a edge through rigorous musical training. Very few observe this point. Our friends, kishore fans also , at kishore forum made this point many times.
2439 = Trichmeer
I am surprised that a person calling “Who is Ghantasala” has the courage to write in this forum. I am neither a singer nor south indian. But when I listen to Sir Ghantasala’s voice, he stuns me with the heavy but fluent voice. He had heaviness of Kishore da and smoothness and melody of Rafi Saheb.
Telugi version of Chal ud ja re panchi – Bhabhi song by Rafi Saheb and another classic sung by both makes me rate him equal if not higher than rafi saheb in Telagu atleast.
To: post: 2442 > Anil Cherian Ji
I fully agree with your post.
To post (2439) – Bhushan said – “ I however, disagree with the diction issue – as rafi was not upto the mark in telugu renditions, diction wise and many shortcomings are there when separation of words are involved – this will become another issue, – If one listens to p suseela singing with rafi in bhale tammudu – there is a lot of difference in the diction and pronounciation. You can clearly notice the difference there. One song, I could not remember clearly, perhaps in bhale tammudu (?) where rafi pronounced mashi instead of manishi – the record is clear, there are other issues like this, so let us close that here –“
Bhushan Ji,
Again you are mistaken of Rafi’s diction. Let me clear you here. Rafi Sahab had sung in many languages being not much educated but when it comes to the languages he was a perfectionist. Better you hear his songs in English two songs that everybody knows, Hindi songs, urdu songs and also Telugu songs. For example I want to quote on song in Akbar Salim Anarkali (1979) which was a poor remake of Mughal-E-Azam. You can hear all those songs and then tell me. I specially want to mention one song where Rafi Sahab had clearly pronounced the word “ nenu firdousi na mari kalidasuna” here there is no word firdousi in Telugu, what I guess Dr. C. N.R. wrote piradousi where Rafi Sahab pronounced it Firdousi which he knows there is no word piradousi. Like that you can see the diction perfection of Rafi Sahab being alien to telugu language. The song is “ Tane Meli musugu teesi”. You just listen all the songs in this movie, you might change your opinion about the telugu diction of Rafi Sahab.
There is another example when Mere Mehboob recording was going on, for the title song, Naushad Sahab was little bit hesitant because Rafi Sahab Punjabi dialect influence will ruin the title song of Mere Mehboob which was in chaste urdu, but contrary to the hesitation of Naushad Sahab, Rafi rendered that song superbly. You can feel it while listening that song to enjoy Rafi’s mellifluous voice. Rafi was a perfect perfectionist in his singing.
Walijah sahab,
I have said this before, but I have to repeat it. Rafi sahab’s greater popularity is not solely on account of Hindi-factor. Ahmed Kutty sir has already written about the fan-following Rafi sahab has in Kerala. For a typical Keralite, Hindi is not exactly more followable than Telugu. From what I know about Tamil film music fans (who again doesn’t follow Hindi much), Rafi sahab has a lot of fans among them;may be much more than what Ghantasalaji has.
Rafi sahab’s voice and style tend to attract listeners, whether they follow the lyrics or not. He doesn’t sing like a ‘pandit’; the smooth, free-flowing style will have its followers everywhere.
@Dr.Chandrasekhar,
Very few in Kerala fights/debates whether Yesu Das is better or Jayachandran is. Yesu Das sir is the undisputed monarch in Malayalam movie music for the last 40+ years, we recognise Jayachandran sir as the undisputed second-best; that’s it.
I think you have earlier mentioned something about M G Sree Kumar. No serious music followers in this part of the country mentions his name in the same breath as the above-mentioned two.
For your information, the only singer who the Yesu Das fans (most of them) think can rival Yesu Das happens to be Rafi sahab. The only (serious) debates I have seen Das fans engage in is Yesu Das V Rafi. Yesu Das V SPB is a fav debate subject for the SPB fans but not for the Das fans.
walijah ji
a small correction to last para in previous post first line – “were so popular”
Walijah ji,
I accept the error in presentation. What I meant was rafi’s original influence in hindi vs his telugu rendition and not otherwise. The real litmus test to prove my statement as “not successful” would be that rafi did not sing any tunes which are composed in telugu style – the songs which he has sung are purely from the style/copy of hindi tunes, which P suseela could clearly attempt and succeed with rafi and who could not do justice similar to P suseela. Hope the mis-understanding clears. Other points, they are well known, so no issues on that front. Yes, due to rift between NTR and ghantasala, NTR searched for a singer who could be a attraction, and he found only rafi suitable for such level (in terms of status) – this was due to rafi’s position as a top singer in 60’s in hindi – naturally NTR looked upon the top most singer in the national language, but NTR realised that he cannot continue with rafi after bhale tammudu, when he had to again rely on ghantasala (despite rift) as there was no other option for him. And rafi ji is understood to have met ghantasala for taking tips to sing telugu songs for bhale tammudu, which the former humbly advised rafi. This was a great thing. It was during this time SPB wanted to take advantage by falling on feet of NTR for some songs, but was not accepted despite such trials. I however, disagree with the diction issue – as rafi was not upto the mark in telugu renditions, diction wise and many shortcomings are there when separation of words are involved – this will become another issue, – If one listens to p suseela singing with rafi in bhale tammudu – there is a lot of difference in the diction and pronounciation. You can clearly notice the difference there. One song, I could not remember clearly, perhaps in bhale tammudu (?) where rafi pronounced mashi instead of manishi – the record is clear, there are other issues like this, so let us close that here – even many telugu singers are not upto the mark in telugu songs due to the technicality of the language, so one cannot put a blame upon rafi ji. For e.g. Ramakrishna das – his pronounciations in words such like Kallalo etc. just falters. Hope I am clear sir.
I do not think bhale tammudu songs were popular (as you say) as no song from the film or the film was recommended for any award -The best films in 1969 (which won awards by govt. of AP) were Kathanayakudu and Aatmeyulu – and ghantasala won the best singer award (he was for all 30 years) and no song of rafi was ever considered by the jury of awards. Bhale tammudu was not even considered as a film fit enough to be recommended for any award.
To posts – 2435, 2436
See as popularity wise Rafi is more popular than Ghantasala, it is as much truth as the Sun. Because of Hindi national language. Rafi known to hindi as well as telugu people who know s hindi language. Whereas Ghantasala is well known to his land people also those who know telugu language. So ultimately when the question arises who’s popular, then all must say Rafi is more popular singer due to singing in national language.
Post: ( 2437) Bhushan – you said “Rafi ji tried in telugu, but was unsuccessful, as he was no match for ghantasala there”.
I do not accept your words unsuccessful attached to Rafi for his Telugu songs. You know that Rafi is not telugu speaking person, so obviously he was not raiding telugu industry to sing or compete with Ghantasala. The reasons the most known better than me, be it Bhale Tammudu, or Aradhana. It was rift between NTR and Ghantasala that lead to sing Rafi for the movie Bhale Tammudu. Even NTR might have thought the only legend that can withstand with Ghantasala is Rafi, so he invited Rafi to sing in Telugu. Even you hear the telugu songs of Rafi you can not pin point mistake in his diction, it is one of the merits of Rafi. For example if Ghantasala had sung any Punjabi song, all Punjabi people would have told the same thing to Ghantasala unsuccessful in Punjabi. There is lot of influence in diction and pronunciation as well as singing in own mother tongue. The songs of Bhale Tammudu were most popular songs in those days sung by non-telugu singer i.e. Rafi.
I think the comments must be unbiased and true in the sense, so please try to comment honestly.
Post 2430
– post for you Mr. tirwedi ji, True music lovers of both legends to excuse.
I acknowledge your respect for rafi and ghantasala. Few points would like to clarify.
Two legends from two different platforms are compared – you cannot say one is best and other is second best. Rafi cannot be best in telugu where ghantasala is. So I presume your statement is not correct. Rafi is more popular due to the national language issue, otherwise, it is doubtful whether he would have been as famous as ghantasala in the south in 50’s & 60’s – Ghantasala was well known to many hindi people and hindi singers in 50’s & 60’s – As time passed, due to regional factor, the importance certainly decreased in terms of fame and popularity other than andhra pradesh. Both lata and rafi were admirers of ghantasala – perhaps very few hindi people know this fact. In fact, lata was one of the chief guests in 1967 for a function organised to felicitate ghantasala, when she stated, there is no comparison to ghantasala. The govt. of AP felicitated ghantasala in 1970 on completing his 25 years film career at lal bahadur stadium hyderabad – More than 30,000 people attended that function (wikipedia reference) – just see the following. There was a continuous 51 day concert last year in andhra on him, on his songs. No music shop in Andhra pradesh can be found without his songs. Every day all india radio telugu channels cannot go without songs of ghantasala. His famous rendition “Bhagawad geetha” is played daily in tirumala temple. None could stand before him for 3 decades in his industry. Rafi ji tried in telugu, but was unsuccessful, as he was no match for ghantasala there.
Which playback singer in the country enjoys such status after 37 years of his demise ?
Hi tirwedi ji
I agree with siva ji above. There is in fighting/debates in hindi film world over who is great between rafi and kishore kumar.
Similarly in malayalam, whether k j yesudas or jayachandran
in tamil, sounderarajan and sirkazhi govindarajan etc.
But in telugu – no such issue – it is only one ghantasala “endowed with most majestic voice” without any peers and competition – for 3 decades – No indian playback singer has achieved that (ref: wikepedia, encyclopaedia on ghantasala) That itself confirms his skills and talent.
Fame and popularity are different, rafi would not have known at all if were in telugu field similar to ghantasala, he would have been like other singers who were just waiting for 30 years to get songs in telugu.
Trichmeer – Your name confirms that you cannot utter names properly of even great people. S P Balu, do you know who is – better than telugu people ? Where from you have come Mr. Trichmeer ? You are trying to educate telugu people about s p balu, who was a infant before the legend ghantasala.
@ kirankumar trivedi
Hi kiran,
Its not about how poular its about how good.
I can see your love for Rafi is very clear in your words saying “Ghantasala” alone and saying “Great Rafi sahab”.Which shows your love not the truth. Telugu people had the taste of Hindi movies and Hindi songs equally as our mother tounge if not the entire population atleast 1/4 th of it. But how many of Hindi speaking people know telugu or telugu songs.There is no surprise in it coz Hindi is the national language where as telugu is spoken in just only one of the 28 states. Its an unknown taste for you. Just like North Indians don’t eat spicy food as much as we south Indians do. You don’t have any idea what so ever about Ghanatasala garu then how can you rate his quality!
I has seen coomments asking who is Ghantasala? If you go outside India leave Bangladesh and Pakistan coz they speak hindi. No one will know Rafi and just like the comments written above they will ask who is Rafi?
Plz Tell me who is the greatest between “Rafi” and “Elvis presley”. Though Elvis is known world wide You will still say Rafi sir coz you know the beauty of his voice ignoring the fact you don’t know how beautiful Elvis sounds coz you were born and brought up with hindi and you are full of it. If you make a poll the whole world says Elvis except we hindi speaking people whether its India, pakistan or Bangladesh.But do we say Elvis is not a great singer.If we say so we will sound ignorant as anything.
Now replace “Elvis Prseley” with Rafi sir and “Rafi sir” with “Ghantasala garu” You will get the poll in favor of Rafi sir coz The whole India knows Hindi and only Andhra people know telugu.
There is also a debate for who is the greatest among Kishore kumar and Rafi and also between Rafi and some other singers. But there is no such thing with Ghantasala. He ruled for 3 decades without any comparisions. Thats how good he is in Telugu.
Its undebatable that who is the greatest, they are great in their own rights.If Rafi doesn’t sound beautiful then why we telugu and other south Indians are listening Rafi’s songs.We know the beauty of Telugu as well as Hindi. So we had the measure of both to some extent
I am not here to say anyone of them is the greatest, coz i dont want to see any debates. We love both and we enjoyed both their songs. Plz show some love and respect for others as well otherwise it’s a meaningless world.
I thinks its quite unfair to compare the great Rafi Sahab with telugu singer Ghantasla. Rafi is known in the whole world, but Ghantasla only by south people
Rafi was the academy of singing. Ghantasala the best Telugu singer
Although my name is kishore kumar, but i don’t like his singins. people who comapre KK with Rafi Sahab, does know nothing about music. KK I heard in his last interview with Lataji, himself admitted that he knew nothing about singing and has no idea of Saregamapadhaanee sa. Plz listen to this interview readily available on youtube, Rafi was simply the best.
Ever since Rafi recorded his first song, in Gul Baloch, he has sounded great, his range is marvelous, even all his songs give you another taste, I heard a song he sung in 1948, which was a Classical song, and he had such a great control throughout the song, he was such a great talent. He has sung in maximum moods. Rafi is indeed matchless. Huwe hum jinke liye burbaad, then yahoo, then pukarta challa hun me, look at his diverse voice, even Lata could not sing in that great variety. He was infact the king of bollywood playback singing. A true sensation.
Rafi is the best, Ghantasala is the second best.
Who is Gandusala by the way? Never heard of him. SP Bala is the best in South Movies.
Ghantasala was a classical singer, his voice suited classiacal singing and Telugu songs, but his voice was never suited for Hindi songs, but Mohammed Rafi’s voice was the most ideal for Hindi songs, He was far more accomplished singer than Ghantasala, as G would only sing his own compositions while Rafi had more successes to his credits as he had more nice songs to his credit. Moreover, Rafi had smooth silky voice which was matchless, Ghantasala is a little behind singers like SP Bala Subramunium who sings much better than Ghantasala. SP is the University of singing of which Ghantasala a poor student only.
1. Rafi
2. SP
3. Ghantasala
dear music lovers,
once noted play back singer kavitha krishnamurthyji
told in a radio interview (i think it is on 31st July 2010)
her experience with rafi saab while recording a duet
song.eventhough she is very junior to him, rafi saab
had treated her in a very respectful manner.
it shows rafi saab’s humble behavier even to a junior
artist.so friends,gantasala saab is a very respectful
singer and while giving respect to him we are respecting
the music world as well as the telugu speaking brothers.
kindly refrain from such bad comments.
Dear ghantasala fans and music lovers,
I strongly condemn the posts 2418 and 2419 of Mr. Bharat shah bhosan & Mr. Dilip kumar – They are not knowing what they are talking. I appreciate the dignity of ghantasala fans by responding patiently and in a dignified way truly expected as music lovers. Never mind dear music lovers, no true music lover and rafi fan is going to tolerate such posts. I know many of our telugu friends here did not respond to the said posts because they know they are foolish posts and they have maintained dignity.
Dear moderator ji, – I too am with Mr. Vitthal ji and Mr. Ramesh Kurpad ji – unwarranted posts in the nature of 2418 and 2419 should not find a place here.
Dilip kumar and bharat shah
Rafi and ghantasala respected each other in a way no body expected. You both are not even eligible to talk either of rafi or of ghantasala, the great legends of indian music. As man mouji ji says, it is better you just skip away from this site and do not create disturbances here.
Man mouji ji – post 2424
Pl. accept accolades for the post. The writers in 2418 and 2419 – false rafi fans and intruders to create disturbances.
ghantasala gave his first interview to all india radio in 1971 (to my knowledge) My request to Mr. Dilip kumar and Mr. Bharat bhushan – can please have some training classes from ghantasala fans before commenting on the great legend.
To post 2418 (Bharat Shah Bhosan)
you seems to be new on this thread and also you pose as if know more about the legends specially Rafi Sahab and Ghantasala. If you know a little music you should not utter such nasty comment ” phata hua dhool” to Ghantasala, the great musician and singer of Indian music. you should be ashamed of insulting the Legend Ghantasala. You such people want to create rift among music lovers and create unnecessary discussions. Please go through all the posts starting from 1 to 2423 then you will be able to understand what is music and what is singer and legends. I pity you and your knowledge about music. First learn to give respect to the legends.
To post 2419 (Dilip Kumar)
You are hereby invited to produce the evidence of the interview either in print media or electronic media. If not shut your mouth and do not talk about legends.
there are so many die hard fans of both the legends visiting this website and paying their tributes. A true music lover never ever insult the legends.
May God give you sanmati to follow the correct path.
Dear vitthal and bhushan ji,
Television found way in the year 1972 in the country and as far as my knowledge goes, in 1976, it found way in indian homes.
2418 and 2419 – all lies, only to support rafi.
Already in post 2415 ramesh ji has requested moderator ji to some unwarranted posts with lot of trash – the thing continues here – 2418 and 2419 continue to be examples of that. It is better if such posts of false facts are stopped forthwith.
Bharatshah and dilip kumar – 2418 & 2419
You need not quote lies for speaking in favour of rafi. Please let us know the television interview (pl. provide the link) of 1969 so that we are interested in knowing the facts.
I feel sad to note that some rafi loving people started telling lies also to support rafi – a sad state of affairs. Further, as bhushan ji states, without knowing the singer, wrong comments are passed. Please do not degrade rafi by resorting to unnecessary comments – of course, nothing is going to effect rafi sahab due to such irrelevant comments.
Posts 2418 & 2419
” interviews given in 1969 to Telugu Television broadcast in 1969″
Can anybody confirm whether television existed in 1969 ?
Let people get satisfied by telling lies – we feel happy if others feel happy. Without knowing about a singer, I think no comments should be passed.
Ghantasla is a telugu singer, he was only good for those people who can understand his language.
The diversity of Rafi Sahab in Hindi music is matchless, no singer can come near his talent, his versatility, his melody, his softness and his sweetness that he had rendered in each of his songs. Very few people know that Ghantasala was a great admirer of Rafi Sahab, for this you can listen to one of his interviews given in 1969 to Telugu Television broadcast in 1969, in which he clearly mentioned Rafi’s superiority over his singing. In that interview he said that i have to Riaz for a 1000 years to sing as beautiful as the legendry Rafi Sahab. If few fans love Ghantasala it does not mean that they should let Rafi’s caliber of singer down, Ghantasala like people are born each decade but Rafi like singer can not be there for ever. One simple word, Rafi is the Best.
Ghantasla is known by telugu speaking people only, He is not such a great singer like Rafi Sahab, Talt Mehmood or Kishore Kumar. He sounded like a Pathha Huwa Dhool.
Vitthalji,
I share the joy of victory with you.
regards
Musharraf
Dear music lovers
India is champion of cricket – congrats for winning world cup 2011.
moderatorjee – your attention is being drawn to the most unwarranted posts that have been floating around in this thread which is being undully tarnished with a lot of ” trash “.
a strong objection to the name of Late Swaminathan Iyer ( author of – true voice ) being so badly tarnished by all these bad posts.
moderatorjee please look into it and have this stopped forthwith.
adaab rafi,
ramesh narain kurpad
Dear fans really I don’t know why we compare mohd rafi with other singers!? Spb said that when I listen to mohd rafi I feel that I am not a singer, sbp is mohd rafi fan so how we compare a fan of the singer to the singer!!? L from LP the music director when some said that kumar Sanu sang 8 songs more than mohd rafi who sang 6 songs under your music the answer was they need to sing 25 songs to compare that days to today’s and in India there is only the singer who can do it he is sbp…the music director ram laxman asked that ur using Lata ji to be famous the answer was no I am using all the singers not only Lata ji and he named many but when he said even mohd rafi sang for me and I feel pround that mohd rafi sang for me…..
Dr. Chandrasekhar
Really funny situations – things have come to a extent that people who do not know about music start making comments on musicians – mysterious way of mind functioning. Like the example of SPB commenting on musicians. SPB was criticised by none other than the carnatic giant Balamuralikrishna for singing notes in music. SPB starts making comments on musicians – what a Joke ?
2409 – Noniskia
Pl. refer post in this blog 2208 in reply to your post 2409 – as you have copied the matter from the article above. That should be a sufficient enlightenment to you.
2408 – Noniskia
A childish comment – the post is just like knowing abcd and claiming to have knowledge of writing big english sentences.
Who is the best should be decided by musicians, not you and me – just have the views of musicians before deciding such “judgemental opinions”
For your kind information and many others – SPB is also not trained in music to decide on a musician and their technicalities – if he thinks like that I am really sorry for his thinking like that – as these days I was seeing reference of some SPB comments on rafi.
Next, bade ghulam ali khan and ghantasala – perhaps you do not know that the former was purely a classical singer and excelled only in classical arena – the latter excelled in both – playback as well as classical – However I do not wish to state much on this as Bhushan ji (himself a musician) states you are not aware of the difference between a playback singer and a classical singer and with zero knowledge on ghantasala – surprising, with such knowledge, comments are passed on legends of legends.
Noniskia – 2408
“How can you compare a classical-singer with a Play-back singer”
Your statement confirms that you do not know the difference between a classical singer and a playback singer – Why do you comment on ghantasala without knowing about him ? Is is fair ?
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Ghantasala is a good-singer, but Rafi is the best. How can you compare a classical-singer with a Play-back singer. Rafi is matchless. If you start comparing Ghantasal with Ustad Bude Ghulam Ali Khan Sahab, then Ghantasala would sound so flat in front of him. This is like you compare a Hindi singer with a chinese one. How two singers who sings in different languages can be compared.This is just bull-shit. Rafi was, is and will be the Graetest of all the HINDI singers, (male and female), that is as simple as that. If a few people love Ghantasala singing, it does not mean that they should start comparing an ordinary odor with the fragrance.
Rafi is Rafi, the One and the Only.
Bharat sen ji, -2405
Thanks for your post, I am happy you liked my post and the songs shared therein.
There is absolutely no comparison – rafi vs spb – I agree, Every body will agree that both were not contemporary singers as well. So comparison is not possible. SPB’s main domination was in the 80’s (in the south ) when rafi ji was not there and even as long as kishore kumar was there (upto 1987) , SPB had no much significance in hindi, it was afterwards he sang some songs in hindi – Maine pyar kiya, hum aapke hai kaun etc. etc. I feel as I read in one of the posts here stating that in tamil forum (from where this article is reproduced) some reference was there for spb’s superiority and to counter that the author of the article has put it in that way and nothing beyond that. It should not be taken as comparison factor.
I hope I made your point clear, Musharaff ji might answer you more.
The golden era of music has no comparison at all – sen ji.
Musharaff ji,
Thanks for your post. You tube songs, you should wait until it downloads completely and then you have to hear the song. Otherwise there will be frequent pauses in between and you cannot enjoy the rendition.
Vitthalji,
Unfortunately here at Dhaka most of the internets is very slow so we are not able to listen to U-tube songs without frequent pauses. So I could not listen to Ghantasala,s portion. But now after great difficulty i have listened to the whole song. Ghantasala has again displayed his classical mastery. Specially his Taans at the end. I have really enjoyed it.
Vitthal ji, Musharaff ji and others
This article very well highlights the importance of rafi sahab – but I strongly feel, that comparison of rafi with spb is simply a childish thought – i really feel surprised to see such comments in the above article (due respects are however due to the author for his love for rafi sahab) I do not know how such thought has come – comparison of rafi sahab with spb – Many posts I have read here, not much importance has been laid on this particular point – many of the music lovers have not raised this issue. Whether it is possible to put up SPB with rafi – never and no way. I am quite aware that SPB is also simply no match or close for/to ghantashala ji and I know that no comparison of SPB is ever made or possible with ghantashala ji, but how come SPB is compared with rafi ji – cannot agree at all. Even I have noticed, the author has carefully and cleverly avoided only ghantashala ji in the article, that is fine and understood as SPB & co. was no way comparable to him, but this rafi-spb comparison issue was a childish view. SPB himself is a admirer of rafi ji as well as ghantashala ji and as I have read, has just learnt singing keeping these legendary singers as benchmarks. Really felt surprised on this comparison of SPB with Rafi. Is such comparison possible – never in my view.
Vitthal ji, the song which you shared – qawali number of ghantashala ji was very nice to hear – as musharaff ji says P suseela has sung it also very nicely. But ghantashala ji steals the show, dominating and commanding as usual.
Vitthal ji – your post on hindusthani and carnatic music point is very interesting. The jugalbandi factor which you have mentioned is present even among instrumentalists from the hindusthani and carnatic counterparts, that is a really very very specialised field, unless one is really a master in the respective forms of music, it is very difficult to participate in such type of competitions. That is the main reason why top and great artists from the respective forms of music alone participate in such type of difficult compositions. Thank you very much for the link of pandit bhimsen joshi ji and balamuralikrishna ji – they are stalwarts of respective forms of music with masterly command.
Thanks Vitthalji,
Real good songs. P. suseela sounds so sweet and melodious.
Regards
Dear Musharaff ji,
contd… was in a hurry in the morning, so could not complete the post.
Actually, what is popularly called jugalbandi – there are programmes where famous carnatic and hindusthani musicians have sung on a common platform. One such incident was between Balamuralikrishna, the great carnatic musician and late pandit bhimsen joshi – here is a glimpse of the video – I am sure you are going to enjoy it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWPFHYvGav4
Very few discussions were made in this forum on qawali songs for which rafi and lata were quite popular from hindi films. Moreover, famous hindi music directors composed very beautiful qawali numbers, rafi being preferred much by many of them. Rafi had indeed sung a qawali number in telugu film as well. Even in southern films qawali numbers have been composed in films, but I feel that hindi films qawali numbers have achieved more importance.
Just wanted to share a qawali song from telugu film – composed by ghantasala himself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HJCX-OwoiU&feature=related
Musharaff ji,
Thank you very much for the post.
Just see how close were musical artists – both hindusthani and carnatic as can be seen from that article –
Dear Vitthalji, Post-2398
Thanks for the article on Ustaad Bade Ghulam Ali and sorry for the late response. It is no wonder that Ghantasala developed acquaintance with Bade Ghulam Ali. The latter must have been impressed by the classical talents that Ghantasala possessed. As I have always said, although Ghantasala was an accomplished playback singer, his classical versatility always put him in an entirely different level.
Regards.