The Rafi-Kishore saga
The following article appeared in The Statesman,Calcutta, on Aug.7 th 2005. It will give more food for thought to the ongoing debate about the Rafi personality and magic – Mohan Flora .
Mohd. Rafi was the greatest playback singer, asserts Ranjan Das Gupta as he pays tribute on the melody kings 25th death anniversary. Rafi was a classically trained singer while Kishore was naturally endowed with excellent resonance. The latter was a versatile genius, singer, music director, actor, writer and director all rolled into one. Both were proficient singers but had separate individual styles.
In the 1950s Rafi literally ruled the roost. He was the most favoured singer for veteran composers like Naushad, S.D. Burman, Shanker Jaikishan, Madan Mohan while Kishore was preferred by S.D. Burman and Salil Choudhury who was playback mainly for Dev Anand and his own films. Rafi on the other hand could balance his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
It is an astonishing fact that O.P. Nayar used Rafi to sing for Kishore Kumar the unforgettable tune Man Mora Bawra in Ragini in 1957. Shanker Jaikishan also had Rafi to sing Ajab Hai Dastan in Shararat in 1958. Says record museum owner Vinod Santhalia, It is simply amazing. Imagine Mohd. Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films Kishore himself acted.
Shanker Jaikishan commented, No doubt Kishore Kumar is a good singer. He sang beautifully for me in Rangoli. But Ajab Hai Dastan was simply not Kishores cup of tea. The mukhdas and antaras required a singer of Rafis range and classical background.
Although Kishore Kumar felt bad about this, he could only marvel at Rafis brilliant rendering of the two songs. Rafi characteristically remarked, No one else except Kishore could sing Dukhi Man Mera in Funtoosh so well.
Salil Choudhury was not favourably inclined towards Rafi at one point of time, but even he was compelled to use Rafi for the unforgettable Tootey Huey Khuabo Nay in Madhumati and Koi Soney Ke Dil Wala in Maya and confess that Rafi was indeed peerless.
It is generally known that Rafi and Kishore went through a bad patch in their relationship. Yet it is also true that both liked and respected each other. S.D. Burman openly admitted to Kishore that the three solos in Guide by Rafi could not be matched by any singer. On Dev Anands special request, he composed the Kishore-Lata super hit duet Gata Rahe Mera Dil for Guide. Similarly, Rafis numbers in Teen Deviyan and the haunting duet with Lata Mangeshkar in Jewel Thief were far superior to the Kishore numbers in these films.
In the late 60s when R.D. Burman composed the melody for Tum Bin Jaaun Kahan in Pyar Ka Mausam, he experimented the same solo with both Rafi and Kishore. True, Kishore sang this number by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. But in the romantic number, Rafi scored over Kishore in melody.
The 60s was also considered Rafis decade though Kishore matured considerably as a singer during this period. The Jungle Mein Mangal number Woh Din Ke Baat Sharan Karo had both Rafi and Kishore together but is somehow not remembered that well. But Shanker Jaikishans Hanste Gate Jahan Se Guzar in Andaz by Rafi quite eclipsed Kishores entire Zindagi Ek Safar in 1971.
Madan Mohan also used both Rafi and Kishore in the song Yu Na Sharma for Parwana in 1972. Kishore sang the happy rendition for hero Navin Nischal. But there was Rafi again to do full justice to the Are Hansnewale, the melancholic aspect of the same song for Amitabh Bachchan.
In the 1970s the Kishore Kumar wave took the Hindi film music by storm and was backed by R.D. Burman. Some critics felt R.D was partial to Kishore and avoided using Rafi. The Rafi Kishore duet Yaadon Ki Barat from the film with the same title in 1973 turned out to be a superhit. But it cannot be categorised either as an exclusive Rafi or a Kishore gem for both sang in perfect harmony.
Subsequently, R.D. Burman opted for Rafi again after four years as no other singer could have rendered so skillfully Chand Mera Dil and Kya Hua in Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin; that too in a film with many Kishore Kumar superhits like Mil Gaya and Aa Meri Jaan.
When Rafi sang Darde Dil for Laxmikant Pyarelal in Karz in1980 based on a single note, he proved melody was indeed God-gifted to him, remembers upcoming singer Sujan Bose. Kishores Ay Mere Umar Ke and Ek Hasina Thi could not touch that level. The same can be said for Rajesh Roshan’s Yarana where Rafi’s Aare Re Aisa Tarana completely surpassed Kishore’s Sara Zamana and Tere Jaisa.
Mohd. Rafi left for his heavenly abode on 31 July, 25 years ago. Remembers author Nabaran Bhattacharya, The photo of a silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
As Kishore himself said when Jagjit Singh criticised the Rafi gharana, How dare these so-called ghazal singers criticise an icon that Manna Dey, Mukesh and I dare not criticise. Rafi was unique.
Dear Avi thanks ,
as u said that 80% KK and 20% Mohd rafi as i think if u asked to the people who is the best singer u will get 80% for Mohd rafi and 20% for KK.
I don’t know that u saw the vote on the best male and female The Vote was around 70% Mohd rafi and 30% other all singer about female lata was around 45% if i am not wrong and othere 55%.
u said that I have to ask LP.Do u know what LP said about Mohd rafi?Do u know what said RD,SJ,SD,OP,LATA,ASHA,and many more about Mohd Rafi.
when I was under 20 years old KK was my best singer and I think same as u,may I know how old are u?because when u will be around 30 years old u r best singer will be Mohd Rafi i am sure about it.
The people like Mr Bachchan songs than Mohd rafi or KK is it mean that Mr Bachchan is the best singer.
about Madan Mohan liked Mohd Rafi and Lata more than an singer.
I know many people they Like KK more than Mohd rafi but when we speak about best singer they all agree that mohd rafi is the best,Sorry dear Avi if i hurt you,
Dear friends,
I don’t want to hurt you guys and i don’t have intention to do so. Here we are just exchnaging our thought on 2 legends.
Answer to ur question, to get someone who don’t know KK and Rafi. My dear friend, I have many south INdian friend who just heard abt them but never heard their songs BUt i let them to hear both personlaities songs and you would be disaapointed to hear that KISHORE got more edge over RAFI. ANother exmaple is just listen “FARMAISH songs” on TV or FM, you can find KISHORE songs are playing more than RAFI(80%(KK) and just 20%(RAFI)).
Dear Ali, I think only LP could answer why he asked Rafi to sing for Amitabh in Dostana and he could also answer why he asked KISHORE to sing for Rajendra Kumar “Tumko-2 bhi to aisa aisa hi kuchh” with Lata whereas all songs sung by RAFI in same film. So my dear friend, it is upto MDs’s comfirt and their tuning with singers which get them together.
But i must tell you one thing that everyone has their own like and dislike.
Dear Rajan, As you can’t hear anything against Rafi so as we can’t hear anything against KISHORE and this debate is never ending. I will last long even after you and me.
ON Filmfare awards:
=============
My dear friend, How many filmfare award Rafi won in 1970?
Dear friend, Rafi got only one award in 70-80 whereas KISHORE got 4 and he(Rafi) got award for RDB composition. Before 69, he(Rafi) was the one man show(singer) in the industry but it would be appreciated if he had got the same no. of awards after getting great competition with KISHORE but he(Rafi) could just managed one. And for that credit goes to RD BurmAN.
Please find the link as evidence:
http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Awards/Filmfare_Awards/
As you said KISHORE da missed the legends MDs (SJ, OP Nayyar, Ravi etc.), you are right because these legends did not want to take rest and they alway played safe game by signing RAFi,MANNA (Trained singer). They always took trained singer for their songs but KISHORE changed that trend also after 68.
SJ singed him for LAAL PATHAR, Jungle me Mangal, ANdaz and many more..
Madan MOhan signed him for PARWANA, Ek MuTHI AAsman and few more…
So friends listen both and appreciate both legends.
dear KK fans who said that KK has more award from mohd rafi,if i am not wrong before 1980 Mohd Rafi have got 6 award and KK only 3 it mean 50%
http://filmfareawards.indiatimes.com/articleshow/articleshow/368676.cms
Look for Nominations for films award you will see that like Aamir Khan who don’t know any think about music and if I am not wrong it song was number 2 in 1998.
dear Avi
Dear are u still sure that films fare award go 2 better singer?If like that I think Mohd rafi should has around not less than 25 awards and kk without a Award.
Daer Avi
why Mere Dost Qissa Yeh (Dostana ) singed by Mohd rafi not KK,If I am not wrong all other songs in this films singed by KK for Mr bachchan why not this songs,Do u have any answer?
Dear Avi,
Are you in dreaming?if u r dreaming i don’t think that some one can dream like this.
How is voice best the .please take song which singed by Mohd rafi and KK and 2 some one who don’t know who is Mohd rafi and KK,After haveing answer please be honest 2 tell us the answer,try 2 take best song of KK and any song of Mohd rafi that u don’t like.Dear Avi we waiting 4 u r answer.
Take out from KK songs RD,SD,Rajesh Khanna,Bachchan u will see how these people make KK famous.
Dear Avi,
You have got ur logic wrong on Rafi sabs getting filmfare awards less than Kishore. Please note that during 1950s filmfare awards for the best singer started combining Male n Female and hence then leading singers Rafi n Lata were competing with each other.
Hence if u just single out only male singer category those days Rafi sab should have got 6 more adding to a total of 12 numbers which is more than anyone.
Regarding few songs which u feel of Rafi sab which u didnt like kindly keep it to u as this debate is gettting heated up unnecessarily because Rafi fans including me would get hurt n retort to point out so many loud songs of ur favourite singer.
Regarding Dilip Kumar giving lip service for Sagino Mahito the only film where 2 of them have worked together because the film was bi-lingual Bengali n Hindi.
I still feel that Kishore da missed outTHE LEGENDS LIKE SHANKER JAIKISHEN,NAUSHAD,MADAN MOHAN,O.P.NAYYAR WHO CAN BE CONSIDERED PILLARS IN CLASSICAL MELODIUS MUSIC ALONG WITH BURMAN DA ( who took Kishore n Rafi both). Only R.D.B used him but the legend also has great hits with Rafi sab. Regaeding another legend duo L.P who clearly preferred Rafi sabs voice and in case of K.A the spoils between the best singers were shared depending on the film.
Dear Rafi fans,
let us avoid controversies and explore this wonderful website of the GREATEST SINGER RAFI SAB which will enrich our knowledge very much and exchange positive ideas.HATS OFF TO RAFI SAB
P.Narayanan
Dear Friend Avi,
Your logic is amazing. What you are trying to prove is that national awards are meaningless, and the reason is that an average singer like KK cannot get it. All the national award winners are real maestros; musicians (Rafi, Yesudas, SPB, Mukesh, Mannadey, Balamuralikrishna et al.), whereas KK with his unpleasant voice and inherent flaws is a mere playback singer, who existed because of the “glorification of mediocrityâ€. The national award of 1970 for the best male playback singer went to SD Burman for the song “Saphal hogi teri aradhana†from the film Aradhana….Was it a bad choice? National award normally goes to “songs†not to the five minute noisy affair for which KK is good at.
Hope that these discussions are very positive and brings out the best points of both singers.
Nair
Dear KK fans,
Please give me one name who said that he became famouse because of KK?I have the answer if(KK fans)you want IS it RD or SD or Rajesh Khanna or Mr Bachchan or Anjaan(semeer father) how wrote most of songs for KK,who wrote for film Don and many more films and he(Anjaan) said that he became famous because of Mr Bachchan not KK If I am not wrong most of KK best songs written by Anjaan for Mr Bachchan films.
About award as our friend Nair and other friends said that to have award not be best song,IF u know about film Sholay how many Award it has?Yes Sholay has award only in 2005 the best film ever made in Bollywood if i am not wrong!!!!!!!!
KK fans please asked 2 the people who know about music to who is best playback singer from number one to fifteen as I think KK will be not in the list.
Mr Avi
As I think the great KISHORE and the great Mr Bachchan are same in singing only the think is not same that KK singed for other and Mr Bachchan for himself,I think that all songs which singed by mr Bachan are famous,Do u think(kk Fans)that Mr Bachchan is the best singer?
NO WAY TO COMPARE GOLD(MOHD RAFI) WITH IRON
Mr Kummar sanu and other who copied KK they never happy when some one said him that they copiend KK but If go to the people who copy Mohd Rafi they said that they are happy some people said that they sing like Mohd rafi
i don’t understant when some one say that Rafi could not adapt KK style because both were different personality.
Zamana jab talak ghata rahe ga
Rafi har waqt yaad aata rahe ga
we can’t compare Mohd Rafi with Mohd rafi when we said that in which style was Mohd rafi better then other.
Dear Nair,
No Never, If you heard “KHAIKE PAAN BANARAS WALA” songs then you must realize that because of his singing (Acting..sang better than amitabh act) song became hit and tell me who can sing that song in that style, noOne but KISHORE only.
Dear Nair, Your knowledge abt KISHORE is very little whereas my knowledge abt Rafi is very much :), For evidence, KISHORE acted in more than 100 films in his 20 yrs, before AARADHANA n after that he acted in nearly 10 films. Person who acted in more than 100 films as Hero is not ordinary.
*** Reply on Rafi sang for KISHORE:
===================================
IN old era, MDs did not want to experiment and did not take risk apart of 2-3 MDs and of course KISHORE was very much busy in his acting career, though he was not happy with it.
***On National/Filmfare awards:
===================================
Before 2000, only art films were categorised in this, and tell me how many good films got national award. Filmfare is award from masses and classes. I rate FILMFARE better than NATIONAL. Dear Nair, there are few people who decide National but not same in Filmfare.
FYI AMITABH got one and only national award for “AGNEEPATH”, it means he is worst, no my dear friend, He deserver much more as KISHORE does.
I must add that now filmfare also become like National award. I am talking abt Filmafare before 90’s.
***ON “PAAN BANARAS WALA” again:
================================
Rafi tried to sing similar kind of song in “PYAAR KIYE JAA”, my friend just listen it, i have never heard any pathetic song like this in HIndi cinema.
SOng bol is like this “RAMLALA Murdabad….”
KISHORE deserved award for “AMAR PREM” as Amitabh deserved award for “DEEWAR” and many more…..
NOTE: I am also happy that HE(KK) did not get National award and i m also happy that he got hugh award from public and he made RAFI to sit amost workless for 6 -7 yrs.
Dear Mr. Avi!
Your observation about the National Film Awards is interesting. So filmfare award goes only to those who deserve it? Is that why KK got for Khaike Paan Banares Waala – which cannot even be called a song? And KK, like ever, sounded pathetic. It’s like making mockery of music. Even if filmfare is the real criterion of versatility then Rafi bagged it 6 times; I hope that KK was not on vacation to another planet then. Now, KK fans have an excuse that he was busy with acting then – having a movie once in a blue moon is not “busyâ€. The fact is that the songs then were beyond KK’s low range and unpleasant voice. But given the lack of classical training, KK’s singing talents are amazing. This does not mean that he has an edge over Rafi or other male playbacks.
Regarding the depths of “sur†and “taalâ€, I did not understand those having depths. My understanding is that a rendition becomes perfect when there is a parallelism of both. I do not know what is meant by depth of sur and taal?
“But I am happy that he [KK] did not get [National Award]â€. Does this characterize sour grapes?
Regards
Nair
for rafi,
Burai teri gar zamana kare
Baian koi jhootha fasana kare
Utaye ye kasmen hazaron magar
Yakeen kaise tera dewana kare.
Mr. Ali,
For you, may be Rafi sound good in “Muqqaddar Ka Sikandar” but it is not so. I have different opinion.
You can’t compare one jolly song with sad song. Kishore sang Happy song and i am sure he would have done justice to sad song as well.
For e.g. In Sholay, “E dosti hum nahi chhodenge” jolly song but after Amitabh dies, same song sung in sad mood by KISHORE which is fabulous.
Mr. Anmol, Dada also made Kishore to sing for DILIP KUMAR, he used 4 singers for DILIP KUMAR. If you see “SAGINA”, DILIP kumar could not do justice to his songs.
Mr. Nair, I have never said anything against Rafi, He was legend and we are nothing to say anything against KK or Rafi.
If you are comparing singers with depth of sur and taal then noone can touch Manna Dey, Ghantsala, be real n practical, but here we are talking abt playback singer where KISHORE always has edge over RAFI n other male singers.
On National award:
There are so called intellectual people who doesn’t know the meaning of Natinal award and they end up with giving these award to SAIF ALI, Ajay Devgan and many non deserving people. Naational award is based on 8-10 members opinion who doesn’t know their job.
Mr. nair, Earlier National award were made for only art film, bhajan song or patriot song and KISHORE did not sang these kind of songs in this category. But i am happy that he did not get. RAFI got national award for “KYA HUA TERA VAADA”, what a pathetic song :). Tell me dis he desrve National award for this?
Manoj,
I’m 100% sure Manna Dey would never give numbers like kk is 1% of rafi’s calibre etc. In fact, the same manna dey in an interview that appeared in “Swagat” magazine that i read in an July-aug. 2004 IA flight from hyd. to delhi said he thought kk’s and hemant da’s were the most god-gifted voices he heard.
He also said that he was so mesmerized by kk when singing “yeh dosti …” song in sholay that he almost missed his cue.
also, regarding rafi being the greatest male playback singer in india, having the best voice in india etc., that is UR OPINION. pls don’t say it as if it’s a fact.
For me, ghantasala’s voice is better sounding than rafi’s and he has as much versatility, range, and feeling as rafi, and is classically leagues ahead of rafi. if u don’t believe me, listen to his original, telugu version of “kuhu kuhu bole koyaliya …” (that rafi and lata sang in hindi), in this link:
it’s the third song (hayi hayiga …) in http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/27/s/movie_name.6586/
somebody else might feel Yesudas’s voice is best etc.. but bcos they sang in telugu/malayalam etc., u don’t know about that.
if u don’t believe me, also listen to the “siva shankaree” song in the link I posted in my previous post, and that i’m posting again below. listen to how many times he covers from low to high pitches, how many “gamakams” he turned out and how effortlessly he sang such a difficult song.
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/27/s/movie_name.6079/
so, rafi is a great singer, yes. but the greatest ? hardly, there are legends in many other languages in india. so, if that’s ur opinion, so be it. pls do not state it like it’s a fact and insult other great singers, some of whom were senior to rafi.
I don’t know whether you guys have visited the other articles on this site. There is one such article written by Raghav,”Rafi Sahaab ,the greatest singer ever,” and another by Binay Bhushan,” Rafisaab vs Lataji.” Just read them- posted July 2001- and you still find them so fulfilling and informative. Rafi saab makes the day. No doubt about that!
Hey Shankar,
Let me tell you that I was just quoting Manna Dey that Rafi holds the positions from 1 to 10 in the world of playback singing. So, you should be against him and not me 🙂 If you ask me personally, I think Manna Dey was being a bit generous to others. I feel that Kishore, as a singer, can’t even be spoken of in the same breath as Rafi, and I feel that it’s just ludicrous to compare Rafi to any other playback singer. It’s true that Rafi has also sung some songs where he hasn’t sounded at his very best, but just listen to the body of work that he has left behind, and you will learn and realize what I am talking about. Just his superior voice quality, and his ability to modulate his voice, puts him at a higher pedestal than any other male playback singer ever. Add to that his range, his versatility, his variations and you know that he was/is the greatest male singer ever.
Dear all,
Although I am not an artist, but song is my everyday sleep. Basically, I love both KK’S & MR’S MUSIC very much. I am very crazy after their music. All the way I can say they both r legend. There r no difference I can find betn them.
REGARDS.
MANASH NATH
Dear Avi, Message to Kishore da fans
Your comments in this open forum is downright immature when you talk about Rafi Sahab jobless. Please note that Rafi Sahab is that giant and fantastic legend loved n respected by all legends.
Latadi,Asha tai,late Geetha di from the hindi film music and S.P.Balasubramaniam,Yesudasji two of the greatest legends consider Rafi sab as their favourite.
Leading music directors O.P.Nayyar sab,Ravi, todays sensation Annu Malik,Himesh Reshmiya,Ismail Durbar,Jatin-Lalit feel and miss Rafi sabs very much.
Current leading singers Sonu Nigam and Udit Narayan proudly announces that they belong to Mohd Rafi school of music.
Please also note that when Rajesh Khanna was popular in the early 1970s Rafi sab was quite busy with regaling his innumerable fans abroad that is why he is very popular even in Carrebian,Male,Fiji to other countries like N.R.I s from U.S.A, Cananda, Europe to Australia n Singapore.
I personally feel that Kishore da missed the melodies of legends like Shanker Jaikishen,Naushad,O.P.Nayyar,Madan Mohan who preferred Rafis voice only. Even S.D.Burman da who can be called as mentor of Kishore gave many exotic songs sentimental to Rafi sab as only he could do justice to them. Examples Guide,Kala Bazaar, Kala Paani,Bombai Ka Babu,Tere Ghar ke Saamne.Pyaasa, Kagaz ke phool etc.
Even R.D.Burman was fortunate to use Rafi sab in Teesri Manzil,The Train,Caravaan,Adhikar,Yaadon ki baraat,Hum kisie kum nahin,and many others which all became superhits.
Kindly note that even in the few years of lean period Usha Khanna, Sonik Omi and the greatest legend duo L.P used the melodious voice of Rafi sab to become hits.
Every music lover is aware of the great come back of Rafi sab in 1976/77 and won the national award for the Kya hua tera vaada song. The trend continued till his unfortunate death in 1980 but for the crores of fans RAFI SAHB LIVES IN THEIR HEART AND WHENEVER WE ALL HEAR TUM MUJHE YUN BHULA NA PAOGE …… IT IS TRUE THAT WE CANNOT FORGET TILL OUR LIFE TIME AND WE PRAY TO BE REBORN AS RAFI SAB FAN ONCE AGAIN…
Rajan Iyer,Kalyani Usha and Ganesh
Dear KK Fans,
Follow a thump rule.
Requesting you to listen to all the compositions of S D Burman (Dada) where he has used both Rafi and Kishore very effectivily. Do not listen any other music compostions. Try to analyze why Rafi has been used for a song and why Kishore has been used.
One information I would like to provide you is that Dada has used 5 singers for Dev Anand and 3 for Amitabh.
You very get the answer.
Regards,
Anmol Singh.
dear kk fans,
Zindagi Tho Bewafa Hai, Ek Din Tukaraayegi, Maut Mehebooba Hai Apne Saath Lekar Jaayegi,this song singed by KK and mohd Rafi and please be honest who is the best ,
“No one can touch Kishore”. Yes! That is why national award or Civilian Honours like Padmasree decided not not to touch him. Please! if you cannot appreciate Rafi, at least do not degrade a legend like him by telling things like KK’s fimfare awards made Rafi jobless. Please note that most of those awards came to KK after Rafi’s demise. Then, If Rafi sounds pathetic, then it is implied that KK’s songs are one degree below that pathetic state.
Nair
ALi,
FYI i am 31 yrs. old and enough mature to differentiate between KK and RAFI.
I heard AMITABH ineterview he said “KISHORE Da is not only great singer but he is a great actor”. My dear friend u forget to write “NOT ONLY”. Hope you understand meaning of “NOT ONLY”.
Whatever you said in your last blog, i was also saying the same. I said singer can’t influenced HERO. It is upto MDs to select as per his comfort. I think u did not get my point.
My friend, Even today if u ask to vote for best singer, one and only KISHORE will win.
ALi, my friend, your information is wrong abt pay.
KISHORE was highest paid singer and whenever he sand duets with Lata, he used to charge 1 rs. less.
This is told by Shailendra Singh(Singer-Bobby Fame)
NoOne can touch soul as KISHORE did. So He and Only he is the best and greatest among all 3 legend singers.
Dear shanked,
the people understant hindi in all our the world but telugu jest in small part of India if am not wrong.I think teluge singer can sing in Hindi but hindi they don’t mostly,
The topic is who is the best singer Mohd Rafi or KK and as I think there is no way 2 we speak about othere topic,there should be one answer Mohd Rafi or KK and why?
I hope that u know about people vote for singers Mohd rafi got about 70% and KK jest less than 20% and 10% other singer.
As football player some siad that Mardona is the best player ever played football but some not but all agree that as footballer he is one of the best ever born in footballer.
Dear avi ,
sorry for say that I think u r under sixteen years old and If u give 2 child GOLD he will not understant the prize of the Gold.
If u speak about one song of KK for Shamm Kapoor became famous I think u r right,If we go for the best actor had songs in his films I think he will be Shamma Kapoor and more than 90% singed By Mohd rafi,If we go for Rajesh Khanna all songs which singed by Mohd rafi was famous and about other super sat Mr Bachchan jest Mohd Rafi singed for him around sixteen songs and most of that songs are famous,Mr Bachchan said about KK that he was not good as singer as actor.
Why they paid for Mohd Rafi more than KK for a song?if i am not wrong they paid for Mohd Rafi 25000 Rs and for KK around 15000 Rs.
Sorry dear Avi if u mind.
When I was a less than 20 years I was a big fans of KK because of Mr Bachchan films.
The Topic is who is the best Mohd Rafi or KK and please jest be honest on that.
Dear Rafi Fans,
There is a song in the film Pyaasa which is pictured on Guru Dutt sang by Rafi Saab. The uniqness of this song is that it has no music in background.
If any one is aware of the lyrics of this song, requesting to write me on my e-mail ID anmol_india@hotmail.com
Thanking You,
Regards,
Anmol Singh.
also, i find it funny when people say rafi saab or lata mangeshkar is the best male/female singer in the country, as if hindi is the only language in india.
i’m a telugu and i can tell u that ghantasala is as great and as versatile a singer as rafi saab. similarly, jikki, susheela, s.janaki, chitra are all excellent female singers comparable to lata.
if u’ll listen to “siva shankaree” by ghantasala from the site below, u’ll see his range:
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/l/27/s/movie_name.6079/
similarly, someone like dr.balamurali krishna, who has composed raagas of his own, who is a stalwart in carnatic classical music, how can someone say rafi saab is a better singer than him.
Hi all,
I’ve seen most of the posts on this article and site. Now I’m not disputing that rafi saab is technically a better singer than kishore da bcos he definitely is. However, I’m against people like manoj or prakash who try to quantify the difference between the two like rafi saab is 10 times a better singer, or kk is not 1% (or one-hundredth) of rafi saab.
u say rafi saab is a better singer than KK, i agree. u say u love rafi saab more than KK, i agree. but i don’t agree to people who give some numbers like 10x, 1% etc. u needn’t put down other singers (and some are technically, classically better than rafi saab like manna dey, balamurali krishna) in order to praise rafi saab.
A clarification! In one of the clips I had erroneously mentioned Rafi’s song in the indie film Ghostbusters. Sorry ! It should have been ‘Jaan Pehchaan Ho’ in Ghostworld (2001). What a hit! after nearly 40 years. Awesome, Rafisaab.
dear Ali,
Surprise to read that you don’t know the difference between the great KISHORE and AAmir.
KISHORE won 8 fimfare award and that is higest till he was alive and he made RAFI to sit idle without work.
If you remember there is song in “VIDHATA” and in unreleased “PYAR AJNABI HAI” where KISHORE sang for SHAMMI KAPOOR and both were super duper hit so Mr. Ali, MDs always influenced singer. There are many songs Rafi sang for RAJESh KHANNA and few are hits but KISHORE became the voice of first SUper star and his successor super star.
Once again i said singer never makes superstar. Many Rafi fans regeret that if ARADHANA songs sung by Rafi then KK would never came in the limelight, this prove that MDs always makes singer.
Another example, There was a time when not a single movie released without KUMAR SANU in ANU MALIK composition but now because of bitterness in their relationship all songs are going to SONU NIGAM.
Latest example i cn give, personally i feel in “FANNA” film one song sung by SONU NIGAM and CHOUHAN, “MERE HAATH ME TERA HAATH HO”, i feel this song suit better to UDIT and ALKA but song is hit.
Just listen RAFI in Ghar (Bootle se ek …), Aandhi (AArti devi…)
and one song in Priyatama including one song in PYAAR KIYE JAA, all are pathetic. It is my personal view and many view.
According to me, noone can touch KISHORE
Dear avi ,
I do think that Rajesh Khanna became superstar because of KK OR SD OR RD,he was superstar when he had Mohd Rafi songs.
As u said that singer never makes hero andSinger always become great with the help of Mds and Lyricist ,I think dear u r wrong if we speak about Mohd Rafi ,Please jest i think Shamma Kapoor without Mohd Rafi songs and as MD O P N,Yes Naushad show us Mohd Rafi and Lata yes that is right.
Why we don’t have any other Mohd Rafi from greatest Naushad?
Shanker Jaikishan the greatest Md commented ” Ajab Hai Dastan” from film Rangoli it is simply not Kishores cup of tea as they said.If I am not wrong Shanker Jaikishan is one of few best MD,
dear if we compare Mohd Rafi with KK or any singer I think there is one answer.
please go for Mohd rafi with Lata or asha songs and KK with Lata or Asha,where do u get the best?
Go for Naushad or O P nayar or Shanker Jaikishan or SD or RD or LP or Madan mohan or any one do like from MD If u will see that they have there best songs with Mohd rafi not with KK or any other singer.
A man like Manny Day one of the best Play back singer said that Mohd rafi is the best Male singer no one can be like him and there are many more.
Some of us said that some songs singed by KK that can’t be singed by Mohd Rafi as KK singed dear friends I think we are wrong because any song became famous we think about that it singed great way no other singer can sing it as it singed,
O N Nayar (MD)said once if there was no Mohd Raf there was no O P Nayar and O P Nayar said that Mohd Rafi was More great as human as a singer.If u know that O P Nayar is the man who show us Asha as singer as Asha herself said.
There is one KING and one QUEEN I mean Mohd Rafi and Lata.
Mr Bachchan all songs which he singed are famous and hit is it mean that he is the best singer?Aamar Khan singed a song it because 2nd best song of the year Is it mean that is the best singed?yes that is because of MD not to Mohd rafi and Lata.
THERE IS ONE WORLD AND ONE MOHD RAFI.
Dear Rafians,
Iam greatly releived to note the website forwarded by our friend Anmol Singh which clearly states that Jagjit Singh loves our Rafi Sab like any other music legend. Also this was mentioned by another friend P.Narayanan who mentioned earlier in this forum that Jagjit Singh paid rich tributes to Rafi Gharana in the Legend Special where all Legends like Naushad,Lataji,Manna da etc paid tributes to Our Immortal Rafi sab. My kudos to both of them and request this point of controversy to be removed from this lovely article and excellent website.
Rajan Iyer
Dear P. Narayan,
I will follow up on your request when I return home in a few days. As it pertains to Rafi saab’s songs,they will be free and you can burn them for your friends.Wait for my mail!
Dear Music lovers,
Like my previous comments I sincerely request all not to compare Rafi Sahab with anyone. I personally feel that two legends cannot be compared and we should concentrate on this fantastic websit in the discussion forum wherein we all can go deep into so many aspects like for instance I learned from one hon member Prince Ali that Rafi sahab has sung 50% of the songs composed by the musical wizard and the music legend Shankar-Jaikishen. Further there are so many thrilling moments like very rare songs,articles,etc on Rafi Sahab only a true Rafian can enjoy to the max.
This is for Ali who feels that Pakistanis rever Rafi sahab more than indians which is totallt WRONG. During my marketing career I have visited each and every town from U.P to Kerala and from Gujarat to Andhra Pradesh and had interaction with friends,contacts and have listened to music in mofussil buses, taxis,paan shops,music programmes etc everywhere Rafi Sahab lives AMONGST ALL OF US. Maybe in disco where D.Js play where youngsters dance there are remixes but again here also Badan pe sitare,
is very popular number. Also I would like to mention that not only in the sub continent but also in U.S,Canada,U.K,Netherlands,Carribean,Africa,Middle east,Srilanka,Singapore,Malaysia etc Rafi Sahab is very popular and there is craze for his songs.
Dear Mohan Flora I shall be thrilled if you can arrange to send the unique non filmi song of Rafi sahab details to bangaloreconsultancy@hotmail.com and I would like to buy them. Please also inform me where I can get the bio-graphy of this great legend Rafi Sahab which was released in Hyd.
Iam also interested to hear Guru Baani sung by Rafi Sahab which are revered prayers for the sikhs which is out of stock in Bangalore.
LET US NOT TALK ABOUT ANY COMPARISON BUT USE THIS WEBSITE TO IMPROVE OUR MUSICAL KNOWLEDGE N WORSHIP THE HUMBLE MELODIOUS RAFI SAHSB TILL WE LIVE.
P.Narayanan
Mr. Ali Baluch,
You should know that singer never makes hero. For your information, Rajesh Khanna came to industry after Kishore and To make Rajesh Khanna superstar, KK and RDB and some extent SDB played important role.
It is upto music director to sign singer based on their comfort (90%), style of songs and whom it is going to picturise.
My friend Ali, NoOne become great because of Rafi or Kishore but yes Rafi n KISHORE became voice of few superstar.
Singer always become great with the help of Mds, Lyricist and To make Rafi great, credit goes to Naushad who suddenly saw Rafi in Chorus and gave him chance.
KK fans,
really i don’t understant how we compare a singer with Mohd Rafi!!!!
when i was a child i liked Mr big B sound more than Mohd Rafi and songs with singed by KK for big i liked it much more than Mohd Rafi which singed for Shamma Kapoor!!!!!!
KK was a great singer but when we compare him with Mohd Rafi we should be honest,Please don’t ask 2 u r heart jest ask u r mind,please ask 2 the people who worked with Mohd Rafi and KK.ask P from LP,Ravi or anyone who know about music as I thing if there are 100 person I think they will vote 200% for mohd Rafi because ever one of them will put his both hands up for Mohd rafi.
we should not compare Mohd Rafi and with anyone but when compare we should be honest.
as said about Mohd rafi
Utha Surahi Yeh, Seesha Woh Jaam Le Saaki,
Aur Uske Saath Khuda Ka Bhi Naam Le Saaki,
Mr Raj kapoor jest have few song which singed by Mohd rafi for him he said that Mohd rafi is the KING without crown.
Dear KK fans jest give me one name who said that he became hit because of KK but i can give many name they because great because of Mohd rafi songs.
JEST give ONE NAME PLEASE BUT THERE ARE SOME NAMES WHO MADE KK GREAT AS I KNOW ARE SD, RD, BIG B,Rajesh KHANNA
yes KK was the greatest as all in one but not as a singer as I think
Sorry Mr. Avi, I meant SD Burman not RD Burman…It was a typing Mistake.
Dear Rafi Fans,
This is confirmation through the following web link which clearly states that Jagjit Singh never criticised Rafi Sab.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/enc3/mohammed_rafi
As the famous ghazal singer Jagjit Singh mentions, “Rafi was extremely versatile and could take on the personality of the Shammit Kapoor or for that matter any other hero on whom the song was picturized.”
Regards,
Anmol Singh.
Mr. Nair,
You are absolutely right now. I meant to say both KK and RAfi are greatest in theor own style. KK couldnot adapt Rafi or Rafi could not adapt KK style because both were different personality.
I am disagree with you on RDB part.
Mr. Nair, As a human being we always like to work with the person who can add his points or view to get our job better.
There was great bonding between KISHORE and RDB.
We should not blame RDB for KISHORE success.
Both are great in their indivisual songs.
Mr Avi,
By saying that a song originally rendered by Rafi, obviously in an inmimitable style, would sound better in KK’s voice, you are failing to admire a legend like Rafi and lowering him….also going for comparisons. Man re tu kahe na dheer dhare is a song meant for Rafi….not for KK. That’s why Music Director had chosen Rafi for that song. Now, I would not argue that certain KK songs like “Kora kagaz tha ye man mera” would sound better in Rafi’s style. It is a KK song….specially tailored by RD Burman for KK.
Kishore kumar is certainly a versatile singer….but does not mean that a Rafi classic would sound better in KK’s voice and style. As per your logic, “O duniya ke rakhwale” should be more soothing in KK’s voice and style? All he needs is a recording room and harmonium?
Regards
Nair
Hey guys…..KK was an alright singer, and did sing some good songs. Having said that, I don’t think that KK, with his various flaws as a singer, is even one-hundredth of a singer Rafi was. Just look at the body of work that Rafi has left behind, just listen to his unbelievably classy voice, just focus on the nuances and subtleties of his songs, and you will realize that there is no other who even comes close. It’s not even a competition!! Rafi has been the greatest male singer, by a huge margin, to have ever come out of the Indian suboontinent.
Mr. Shambhu,
I like ur blog but i am big fan of Rafi and i can’t differentiate both.
Whatever songs u have mentioned r fabulous and very tough and RAFI did 100% justice to that songs.
Few KISHORE songs from low to High
1. Na Hasna Mere Gham pe (it start with low and last antara is high)
2. Pyaar Hame kis mod pe le aaya (very low note to very High)
Again, i m not comparing but i m just mentioning both are untouchable.
Thanx
dear kk Rafi fan,
Idont think u are a fan of Rafi if u are u would knew that songs like Pag gungroo band meera nache de was not a big deal for him . and from low tune to high tune and high tune to low tune speacily broghted for him, before rafi there were alot of singers like Talat,KLSigal, Pankij Maliketc, they used normal tunes u can say little high or low,but when the music industry knew there is a person who can sing in very high tune, every body wants to get advantage of this voice to make thier music imortal. I also give u a list
1. Mujhe le chalo aaj us gali mein(very low tune)
2.Maa tujhe dhondun kahan(from high to low) when he say Maa shouting and direct come down and say Tujhe dhondun kahan,very difficult to sing.
3.Who dont know about O duniya ke rakwale.
4.Akber mera naam nahin hai(playing with his voice in this qawali)
this is not about insulting the legends, kk and Rafi they will be legend until the end,but ppl should know what is the reality and they can tell thier opnion what they think. for me this is not insulting anybody.
I have just copied KKRAFiFan/KKRafi blog n send it. I hope both are same person. 🙂
Anyway I am 101% agree with this gentleman/s.
Mr. Nair,
Its ur opinion that KK is far away from Rafi in tribute song “MAN re tu kahe na dheer dhare”
I feel if KISHORE could have sung the same song in recording studio, it could be better than Rafi version n of course it would be in different style. I must say KK sung beautiful on Harmonium in LIVE concert in KHANDAWA.
See the greatness of KK, he was givin grespect to another Legend but what you people are doing.
Pls. admire both. Both are great and greatest in their own style. They are uncomparable.
I have seen all the comments and quite disappointed by reading them.
I am great fan of KISHORE DA and RAFI Saheb. There should not be any
comparison. Those who are comparing them, they are wasting their time and insulting 2 LEGENDS.
I feel whatever songs KISHORE sang RAFI can’t do justice to them and vice
versa.
Rafi fan will not digest it but since i am greatest RAFI fan so i can say
this.
KK songs:
1. TUNE ABHI DEKHA NAHI
2. MAIn SHAAYAR BADNAAM
3. EK Ritu aaye ek ritu jaaye
Rafi songs
1. Sukh ke sbh saathi
2. Dil ki awaaz bhi sun
3. Tu ganga ki mouj me
Both are uncomparable and unmatch.
Since i am great fan of KISHORE DA and RAFI Saheb, i can’t digest Yesudass
and SPB are better than KISHORE pls. consult physician. You can put Yesudass
and sPB in same league of SURESH WADEKAR, SHALENDRA SINGH, JASPAL SINGH.
So pls. for God sake, don’t spoil them.
“Utha Surahi Yeh, Seesha Woh Jaam Le Saaki,
Aur Uske Saath Khuda Ka Bhi Naam Le Saaki,
Utha Surahi ……….
Phir Iske Baad Hame, Trishnagi Rahe Na Rahe,.
Kuch Aur Der Murabbat Se Kaam Le Saaki,
Kuch Aur Der………
Phir Iske Baad Jo Hoga Woh Dekha Jaayega,
Abhi Toh Peene Peelane Se Kaam Le Saaki, Abhi Toh Peene……and so on”
The above is a portion of Rafi singing in his inimitable”peeyakar” style in a non filmi album. The effect on the people listening to the song is electric.Whether they understand or not the meaning of the lyrics but the alcohol consumption is threefold/fourfold with encores. I don’t play this song in my parties anymore. I have the CD of songs and wouldn’t mind passing on to the bhakts! Jai Rafi!
Zamana jab talak ghata rahe ga
Rafi har waqt yaad aata rahe ga
Hi All,
I have seen all comments and quite disappointed by reading it.
I am great fan of KISHORE DA and RAFI Saheb. There should not be any comparison. Those who are comparing they are wasting their time and insulting these 2 LEGENDS.
I feel whatever songs KISHORE sang RAFI can’t do justice to them and vice versa.
Rafi fan will not digest it but since i am greatest RAFI fan so i can say this.
KK songs:
1. TUNE ABHI DEKHA NAHI
2. MAIn SHAAYAR BADNAAM
3. EK Ritu aaye ek ritu jaaye
Rafi songs
1. Sukh ke sbh saathi
2. Dil ki awaaz bhi sun
3. Tu ganga ki mouj me
Both are uncomparable and unmatch.
Since i am great fan of KISHORE DA and RAFI Saheb, i can’t digest Yesudass and SPB are better than KISHORE pls. consult physician. You can put Yesudass and sPB in same league of SURESH WADEKAR, SHALENDRA SINGH, JASPAL SINGH.
So pls. for God sake, don’t insult these 2 LEGENDS.
Mr Ali Baluch:
What I said was this:
“So SPB and Yesudas are better than KK now. Please!!!”
Did you notice the “Please!!!”? That gives a whole different meaning to the statement.
Anyways If you havent understood me by now, I will reiterate my opinion again. I think Rafi is a better singer than KK any given day when it comes to classical elements but KK is overall a more versatile,spontaneous and popular singer. SPB and Yesudas are great singers but not in the same league as Rafi or KK. I hope you get my point now.
The general statement that “teenagers like KK” is too naive. There is no authentication for that. The fact is that a considerable majority of them are Rafi fans. Another point is regardng the rendition by KK of the rafi song “Man re tu kahe na dheer dhare” as a tribute to Rafi in a live concert. It was not even a million miles near Rafi’s original rendition. However, the statements made by KK before that rendition show how much respect he had for Rafi.
Nair
mushkile sangeet vo muskara kar jelta
perta ragon ko lehron mein suron se khelta,
Hi,
This is my first comment in this forum. I am big fan of KISHORE and RAFI.
Nobody can beat them. Someone in this forum trying to compare Udit with Kishore, i have doubt in his music sense. Where is Udit now? hardly he is singing. Nowadaya playback singing life is less. What happen after Kishore dies, Kumar Sanu rules for 5 years, he is out and same thing happend to Udit. And same will happen to SOnu Nigam who is hot nowadays.
U people should understand that these 2 legends sustain and remained on the top till they die.
There are few songs which KISHORE sung and i am sure nobody, even Rafi can sing as good as KK sings.
for e.g
1. Pyaar hamei kis mod pe le aaya (from low to high)
2. pag ghungharoo bandh and many more.
AND Same with Rafi, there are many songs which KK could not sing.
Friends, there should not be comparison.
I have advice for Rafi fans (excluding me 🙂 ), They should not deny proven things. for e,g. if they don’t like KK, fine but they should not say anything against him.
Even i strongly believe, trained singer can easily sing all the songs sung by Rafi, of course not 100% but no trained singer can sing Kishore songs. It is proved, if you can watch all musical reality shows.
For e.g. Karunya from Indian Idial try to sing “Ruk jaana nahi”, it was so cheap that i chnaged the channel but he sing well “Dukh ke sabh saathi”
So friends, don’t fight. Both are great and they are not comparable.