The Rafi-Kishore saga
The following article appeared in The Statesman,Calcutta, on Aug.7 th 2005. It will give more food for thought to the ongoing debate about the Rafi personality and magic – Mohan Flora .
Mohd. Rafi was the greatest playback singer, asserts Ranjan Das Gupta as he pays tribute on the melody kings 25th death anniversary. Rafi was a classically trained singer while Kishore was naturally endowed with excellent resonance. The latter was a versatile genius, singer, music director, actor, writer and director all rolled into one. Both were proficient singers but had separate individual styles.
In the 1950s Rafi literally ruled the roost. He was the most favoured singer for veteran composers like Naushad, S.D. Burman, Shanker Jaikishan, Madan Mohan while Kishore was preferred by S.D. Burman and Salil Choudhury who was playback mainly for Dev Anand and his own films. Rafi on the other hand could balance his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
It is an astonishing fact that O.P. Nayar used Rafi to sing for Kishore Kumar the unforgettable tune Man Mora Bawra in Ragini in 1957. Shanker Jaikishan also had Rafi to sing Ajab Hai Dastan in Shararat in 1958. Says record museum owner Vinod Santhalia, It is simply amazing. Imagine Mohd. Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films Kishore himself acted.
Shanker Jaikishan commented, No doubt Kishore Kumar is a good singer. He sang beautifully for me in Rangoli. But Ajab Hai Dastan was simply not Kishores cup of tea. The mukhdas and antaras required a singer of Rafis range and classical background.
Although Kishore Kumar felt bad about this, he could only marvel at Rafis brilliant rendering of the two songs. Rafi characteristically remarked, No one else except Kishore could sing Dukhi Man Mera in Funtoosh so well.
Salil Choudhury was not favourably inclined towards Rafi at one point of time, but even he was compelled to use Rafi for the unforgettable Tootey Huey Khuabo Nay in Madhumati and Koi Soney Ke Dil Wala in Maya and confess that Rafi was indeed peerless.
It is generally known that Rafi and Kishore went through a bad patch in their relationship. Yet it is also true that both liked and respected each other. S.D. Burman openly admitted to Kishore that the three solos in Guide by Rafi could not be matched by any singer. On Dev Anands special request, he composed the Kishore-Lata super hit duet Gata Rahe Mera Dil for Guide. Similarly, Rafis numbers in Teen Deviyan and the haunting duet with Lata Mangeshkar in Jewel Thief were far superior to the Kishore numbers in these films.
In the late 60s when R.D. Burman composed the melody for Tum Bin Jaaun Kahan in Pyar Ka Mausam, he experimented the same solo with both Rafi and Kishore. True, Kishore sang this number by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. But in the romantic number, Rafi scored over Kishore in melody.
The 60s was also considered Rafis decade though Kishore matured considerably as a singer during this period. The Jungle Mein Mangal number Woh Din Ke Baat Sharan Karo had both Rafi and Kishore together but is somehow not remembered that well. But Shanker Jaikishans Hanste Gate Jahan Se Guzar in Andaz by Rafi quite eclipsed Kishores entire Zindagi Ek Safar in 1971.
Madan Mohan also used both Rafi and Kishore in the song Yu Na Sharma for Parwana in 1972. Kishore sang the happy rendition for hero Navin Nischal. But there was Rafi again to do full justice to the Are Hansnewale, the melancholic aspect of the same song for Amitabh Bachchan.
In the 1970s the Kishore Kumar wave took the Hindi film music by storm and was backed by R.D. Burman. Some critics felt R.D was partial to Kishore and avoided using Rafi. The Rafi Kishore duet Yaadon Ki Barat from the film with the same title in 1973 turned out to be a superhit. But it cannot be categorised either as an exclusive Rafi or a Kishore gem for both sang in perfect harmony.
Subsequently, R.D. Burman opted for Rafi again after four years as no other singer could have rendered so skillfully Chand Mera Dil and Kya Hua in Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin; that too in a film with many Kishore Kumar superhits like Mil Gaya and Aa Meri Jaan.
When Rafi sang Darde Dil for Laxmikant Pyarelal in Karz in1980 based on a single note, he proved melody was indeed God-gifted to him, remembers upcoming singer Sujan Bose. Kishores Ay Mere Umar Ke and Ek Hasina Thi could not touch that level. The same can be said for Rajesh Roshan’s Yarana where Rafi’s Aare Re Aisa Tarana completely surpassed Kishore’s Sara Zamana and Tere Jaisa.
Mohd. Rafi left for his heavenly abode on 31 July, 25 years ago. Remembers author Nabaran Bhattacharya, The photo of a silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
As Kishore himself said when Jagjit Singh criticised the Rafi gharana, How dare these so-called ghazal singers criticise an icon that Manna Dey, Mukesh and I dare not criticise. Rafi was unique.
Dear KK Friends,
I don’t know about Pakistani Music and I don’t see Pakistani TV channels but u can say by mistake I was looking to Pakistani TV,there was a programm about a Pakistan singer and his style of singing was as Mohd Rafi and they say about a song which he(Pakistan singer)singed”THIS SONG ONLY CAN BE SINGED BY HIM(PAKISTANI SINGER)AND MOHD RAFI NO OTHER SINGER CAN SING IT”HOW DO U FEEL DEAR Avi IF U R INDIAN??!HOW DO FEEL THAT WE ARE NOT INDIAN AND WE LOVE INDIAN MOHD RAFI?
Dear Nair
It has no nationality in music but when some one say that KK is better singer than Mohd Rafi?what should be in my mind when some one say that???!! because when some one show u that is the SUN at Day and u say no it is MOON!!!!
KK WAS GOOD SINGER BUT NOT BETTER THAN MOHD RAFI.
REALLY I DON”T UNDERSTANT How some one can say that KK is better singer as Mohd Rafi??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dear Shambu,
this site is for everybody who loves music they can right what they want but by honest way and when someone like dear Avi said that Mohd Rafi better singer than KK and the same man said no KK is more Famous!!!!!I don’t know about Indian as u r an Indain Do u think that KK is more famous as mohd Rafi in India?
After reading some of the comments above, I have come to the conclusion that our dear friend Avi is “in denial”.Even though he knows that Rafi is the better singer, he refuses to believe so. And this refusal makes him vehemently say that Rafisaab was inferior. A music lover should have an open mind and have the mindset to enjoy all genres and singers without being biased. I don’t know what he is trying to prove or what he will attain by trying to thrust his opinion on the fans of this web-site.In these days of multi-track music, having a one track frame of mind makes people very bitter and irritable as is being proven by his comments on Rafisaab.Dear Avi, don’t deny yourself the pleasure of enjoying Rafisaabs music with open heart, open door and open mind!
Music is God. It has no nationality or citizenship. It is everwhere and belongs to all.
dear avi,
u write ur opinion and let ppl write there opinion,this site is for everybody who loves music.
ur writing things that ppl will never believe and u become angry for that why?
Dear Avi,
I don’t think that Sanjeev kummar or Naseerudin Shah are better Actor than Amitabh Bachchan,
U didn’t answer Who is the best Mohd Rafi with Lata or KK with Lata?!!!
Dear Avi it is not mean that what I like it should be the best Dear Avi please send us jest a website in which some one who worked with Mohd Rafi and KK and he said that KK IS BETTER SINGER THAN MOHD RAFI??!!!There are many who said that KK is great singer but I don’t think there is one who said that KK IS BETTER SINGER THAN MOHD RAFI.
Sorry Dear Avi if I hurt 2 saying that u r Indian and mohd Rafi Indian,but what I think that Mohd Rafi is better than KK like Black and white because any one know these two colours which is the black and which is white.
why not we said an email to Bollywood to answer us who is the best male singer ever born in Bollywood?
Dear Avi Black is black and white is white sorry again dear Avi
Dear shambhu,
I am differ. According to me in all songs, sung by KISHORE n RAFI, KISHORE sang beautifully and definetely had edge over RAFI. I don’t have nay doubt. I am writing these things after “pura
soch samjhakar”
Dear Ali,
According to me Kishore had temendous edge over Rafi n i don’t have any doubt. Since Rafi was trained singer so i can believe technically he might b correct but he did not have the same depth n pain which Kishore had and i believe that is 100%required to reach to common people and KISHORE had everything.
I wrote many time as Sanjeev Kumar/Naseeruddin Shah who were/are technically better as critics says but AMitabh is AMitabh.
Dear Ali, I am an indian and KISHORE was also indian. for your information So pls. don’t poke ur head in a wrong place.
these are Mr JAWAID NASEEM word for Mohd Rafi
Rafi saheb ke bbare mein itna kuchh kaha jachuka hai ke ab alfaaz bhi saath nahi dete bus apni jaanib se apne alfaaz ko yuun bayan karta hoon ke…..
Ek zamin ek chaand ek suraj
aur naghmon ka Khuda ek RAFI
Tujhse pehle na tere baad koi
gar koi hai to faqat ekRAFI.
dear Avi,
please ask P from LP The song nafrat ki duniya ko chod ke it was made for KK and it is singed by Mohd Rafi You said that Mohd Rafi is better singer technically than KK in this case I think it mean that is right.
These are u r word that Mohd Rafi is better than KK as technically it mean that Mohd Rafi can sing better than KK in any song,
Dear Avi,I am not Indian for me Mohd Rafi is Gold but as u r Indain it mean “GHAR KI MURGI DAAL BARABARâ€.
DEAR AVI ARE U SURE THAT MOHD RAFI IS BETTER SINGER AS TECNICALLY?!!!!!!!!!!
dear avi,
apni apni pasand hai,
apna apna khyal hai,
kaun acha hai
kaun bohot acha hai,
mushkil bada sawal hai.
u think kk was better in these songs but for me it is opposite,Rafi sang them the way it should be singed.(TUM KO KHUSH DEKH KAR)this song starts whin mohd rafi sings(TUM NE KYA KHEHDIYA HUMNE KIYA SUN LIYA) before that it is only noise coming out from the speaker ,Iam sorry but just go listen to this song again and also (BANE CHAHE DUSHMAN ZAMANA HAMARA) and after that think as i said before(socho, samjho,parko)phir dushman par hamla karo,
what I mean is that these two songs are sang by two friends,know tell me whose voice is more friendly(Rafi for sure) kishore was only singing the song but Rafi was undestanding the song and singing it the same time.
Dear Anmol,
I am very sad to read ur analysis.
My comment on ur folowing analysis:
========================
RD Burman paid a heavy price by giving most of the songs to Kishore in the ealier part of his career. Mid seventies saw the rise of LP which compelled RD to give some preference to Rafi apart from Kishore. But Rafi’s death saw further down fall in RD’s career. He was just dependend on Kishore. Bappi Lahri also gave competition. Kishore death completely put an end to RD’s career.
For not using Rafi effectively in early 70s and going against his father in Aradhana costed him very severely. He was almost without job in late 80s & 90s. I wish if Rafi could have lived at least for another 5 years it could have saved RD Burman’s career. Rafi Saab’s voice did suit his westernized composition quiet well.
================================
I can understand that you could not digest Kishore’success over Rafi.
Until KIshore was alive, RDB on top, sharing the same position with LP.
After KIshore death, noone was there who can do justice to RDB songs and that cause him much.
Dear friend Anmol, Saagar released in 84 and KISHORE got award for this in 85 and songs composed by RDB.
There are many songs with films released in 80’s till KISHORE was alive and composed by RDB.
1. KAALIA
2. SATTE PE Satta (Tum saath ho jab anpne, Pyar hame kis mod pe le aaya)
3. Saagar
4. NAMKEEN AND SO MANY..
Dear Anmol, if you remember there are many newcomer came in late 70’s and 80’s, i mean Rajesh Roshan, Bappi Lahiri whose 90% songs are sung by KISHORE.
because of KISHORE only people rememeber RDB and i m sure Rafi was not capable to do justice to his songs. Od couse Rafi had sung few beautiful songs for RDB.
My dear friend, u talking abt existance of Rahesh Khanna and Dev Anand because Kishore sang for him ehy u forget AMitabh, 80% succesful songs of his sung by Rafi. If existance is paramameter then where is Shaami Kapoor and Dilip Kumar, Is it mean Rafi was poor. No my dear friend, ur anaysis is 100% wrong.
Abt RDB, After KISHORE death, he made many good composition which could be great if KISHORE would have given his voice. For e.g Parinda, 1942 Lovr Story, Paale Khan and many more….
dear Anmol, the ndtv link which u published is written by people like you.
Best platform to judge them is to listen abt them from music composer and player because they are the right person.
I heard/saw many interview where few MDS said KISHORE was uncomparable and few said RAFI. Again “Nafrat ki DUNIYA” is just story and if u read my prev. blog, i wrote of RAFI incapability to sings SJs composition n it is said by SHANKAR from SJ due.
Just listen songs sung by both legends
1. EK mahal ma chhamchaam karti
2. Kya mousam hai
3. Bame chahe dushaman
4. Tum ko khush dekhar
and many more…
KISHORE was tremendous and sound/sing better than Rafi.
You can’t just excuse of RAFI’s downfall by stating his health.
Thanks Mr Anmol Singh ,
I hope that mr Avi agree with this http://ndtv.com/mb/readreplyRetro.asp?topicid=335&tablename=Music&id=564693
Our dear friend AVI has asked for evidence and proof to prove Rafi Sahab’s superior over Kishore. After doing a search on google on Kishore Rafi some astonishing facts have been found out.
For the song, “Nafrat Ki Duniya†from “Haathi Mere Saathiâ€, Kishore’s failure has been mention at many discussion forums.
http://ndtv.com/mb/readreplyRetro.asp?topicid=335&tablename=Music&id=564693
When Kishore Kumar went off key recording Ajab hai dastaan teri ay zindagi for Shararat, Shankar Jaikishan summoned Rafi to lend his voice for Kishore Kumar.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040808/mailbag.htm
Besides Kishore Kumar, Talat Mahmood used Rafi’s voice for the Lala Rukh number Hai kali kali ke lab par teray husan ka fasana. Neither Talat nor Kishore objected to Rafi’s voice being used for them— such was the virtuosity of Rafi. This speaks volumes for their on-mike camaraderie.
It is fact the Rafi was finalised to sing all the songs for Aradhana. As SD Burman fell ill RD Burman took full advantage of the situation and brought Kishore into reharsals. The following article speaks of how the Burmans ditched Rafi at the cost of Kishore.
http://inhome.rediff.com/movies/2000/oct/31burman.htm
Though the above article accusses SD Burman along with RD Burman for sidelining Rafi, but looking at the era of 1971 -1975 SD Burman did try to do justise to Rafi Saab. But may be it is his son’s success and conditions put by film makers to use Kishore over Rafi could be the factor, plus his detoriating health.
In fact there were many others part of the anti-Rafi conspiracy. Possibly Rajesh Khanna & Dev Anand and a league of film makers. They used Kishore as a weapon to completely suppress Rafi, trying to use Kishore beyond his capability and providing Rafi Saab sub standard songs.
It would be interesting to know that SD Burman composed Gata Rahe Mera Dil from Guide on request of Dev Anand. It was not a part of the original film script. Later on in the 70s when RD Burman & other music composers scored music for Dev Anand stared films like Warrant, Hera Panna, Johnny Mera Naam, Des Pardes, Hare Raam Hare Krishna & Tera Mere Sapne none of them a single song sang by Rafi. Most of Dev Anands films in the mid and late 70s can be considered second rated as compared to 50s and 60s when Rafi Saab made the maximum contribution to his films.
Same can be said about Rajesh Khanna also after the success of Amitabh.
RD Burman paid a heavy price by giving most of the songs to Kishore in the ealier part of his career. Mid seventies saw the rise of LP which compelled RD to give some preference to Rafi apart from Kishore. But Rafi’s death saw further down fall in RD’s career. He was just dependend on Kishore. Bappi Lahri also gave competition. Kishore death completely put an end to RD’s career.
For not using Rafi effectively in early 70s and going against his father in Aradhana costed him very severely. He was almost without job in late 80s & 90s. I wish if Rafi could have lived at least for another 5 years it could have saved RD Burman’s career. Rafi Saab’s voice did suit his westernized composition quiet well.
It is a law of nature “WE REAP WHAT WE SOW”. One can imagine where Rajesh Khanna & Dev Anand stand today.
LP used both Rafi and Kishore effectively unlike SD Burman, therefore were consisted till the end.
Dear Avi,
AS U SAID “GHAR KI MURGI DAAL BARABARâ€. I think u r doing same with Mohd Rafi voice because all over the world none Indians Like Mohd rafi voice and u an Indian don’t like it!!!!!
The song nafrat ki duniya ko chod ke it was made for KK and it is singed by Mohd Rafi You said that Mohd Rafi is better singer Technically than KK in this case it mean that is right.
dear Avi I think who is not good technically i think he or she can’t sing any tape of songs but who is good technically he or she can sing any song????
Dear Avi,
What Mr Rajesh Khanna said he is some one like u and me who don’t know about music but what Anwar said about mohd Rafi or Mohd Aziz said,In Dubai in stage programm people said Mohd Aziz 2 sing Mohd Rafi song he siad that he is nothing in the front of Mohd Rafi only he try 2 sing but not the same great as Mohd Rafi sing it but Mr Kummar sanu and other who copied KK they never said that kk sing better than them,please give me one MD you said that kk better than Mohd Rafi??RD like Mohd Rafi and Lata more than ASha and KK as a singers
Dear Avi U didn’t answer,who is the best Mohd Rafi with Lata, Asha, Geeta or KK with Lata,Asha,Geeta.Please be honest dear AVI please Please,Please Please be honest with yourself.
Are u sure that KISHORE is far-far ahead of RAFI?If u mean that as actor I am with u but if u mean that as a singer I think kk by himself never dreamed it.
I don’t think that SJ made song and Mohd Rafi can’t sing it!!! but if it like that but it mean there was no other singer can sing it and changed it and singed by Mohd Rafi not other singer,
Please asked Pyara from Laxmi-Pyare’s about that he will tell is it true or not.
Dear Avi
Ajab Hai Dastan in Shararat.Do u know why it singed by Mohd Rafi not KK?Do u know what Sj said about that?
Do u know what SPB and Yesudas said about Mohd Rafi?
I consider SPB and Yesudas in many ways higher than Kishore. Sorry Avi…..this could be a wrong notion like what you have abour Kishore. Rafi excels all, which has been acknowledged by SPB and Yesudas.
dear avi,
har baat ko jako farko har ko na tolo
jis baat ko na samjho vo baat na bolo
us baat ki keemat jano jo baat zuban par aaye
jo baat banana chaho vo baat bighad na jaye.
do u want us to believe u? no way.about (nafrat ki duniya ko chod ke) yes before 20 years I heared that kishore failed to sing this song.u said there is story that SJ asked Rafi to sing one song and his voice was breaking in the songs(He was unbale to sing) so Jaikishan had used the same voice in different way. It is true and said by Shankar from SJ dues. COULD U TELL US WHICH SONG WAS THAT,I DONT THINK THERE IS ANY SONG LIKE THAT because SJ or who ever wher not able to compose music that rafi couldnot sing it.
Rajesh khanna(we know about his taste, he prefered kk to sing his songs so from that we knew that he dont know about music) HAMSE KYA BHOOL HUI JO YE SAZA HUMKA MILI,when this song starts until it ends did u hear a single line he didnot sang on Rafis style.
so dear avi khud socho aur khud samjho kya sahi hai aur kya ghalat.I am not saying SJ didnot say that may be he said but WE WILL NOT BELIEVE THESE THINGS,because we know Mohd Rafi and his ability for singing.
Dear Unknown,
You look very immature when u say KK send AMit to Manna Dey for learning music. Yes it is true because there is saying in HINDI “GHAR KI MURGI DAAL BARABAR”. I don;t know how old r u but if u r father or son, u must know child always listen to outsides(teachers even though u r great in the same field), that is why parents send their kids to school or tution so that they can learn.
Boss ur analysis is 100% wrong.
Dear Ali,
As you remember for “Nafrat ki Suniya”, i must say this saying is created by some rafi fans. There is no story like this but there is story that SJ asked Rafi to sing one song and his voice was breaking in the songs(He was unbale to sing) so Jaikishan had used the same voice in different way. It is true and said by Shankar from SJ dues.
You remember, some said that KUMAR SANU was better than KISHORE but u don’t remember 🙂 🙂 Rajesh Khanna said after “JANATA HAWALDAR” song sung by ANWAR, he sang better than RAFI.
Song is “HAMSE KA BHOOL HUI”
Before saying anything, lets get the proper proof and present in the forum. South Indian says SPB is better than KISHORE and RAFI so is it true?
There is only one parameter to measure success and greatest personlity is popularity and rememberance and in both parameters KISHORE is far-far ahead of RAFI.
Now you will say HIMESH is also famous but boss u should never forget he will become great only if he existat same stage after 15-20 yrs.
Everyday KISHORE rise in film industry like KUMAR SANU, ABHIJEET, etc but how many exist last longer. NOone.
KISHORE da ki jai HO…………
KK sings for Rafi fans
Kuch to mere fans kahenge
Inka kaam hai kehna
Chodo bekaar ki battom mein
Kahin beet na jaaye Rafi Saab ka gaana
Rafi Saab ko jo taane dete hain
Yeh khoye hein shor aur awaaz main
Hum ne unko bhi chup chup ke
Sunte dekha Rafi Saab ki gaanom ko
Rafi Saab sings with KK on side:
Chale the saath milke
Chalenge saath milkar
Duniya ko ruk na padega
Hamaari awaaz sunkar
Ooooh hamaari jaan lengi
Tumaari yeh debates
Humein jeene na deegi tumhaari yeh silly quarrels
Samagh lo baath sur ki
Tumein denge duaayein
Then fans of both legends take over:
Bada pyaasa hai yeh dil
Inhe gaanom se madhosh kar do
Phadak udhe hai shole
Inhein surom se khaamosh kardo
Hamaara hosh le lo
Humein behosh kar do.
Dear Avi,
You was speaking about award that KK is the best because kk had filmfare award more as Mohd Rafi had but u r wrong now who do u like Mr bachchan because Mr Dilip Kummar had more than Mr Bachchan!!!!!!!!?????
I think u like Asha more than Lata because Lata had only 5 award and Asha had more!!!!!?????
Dear Avi Are u agree that KK is better singer than Mohd Rafi???!!!!!!
U r the first in the World who said that he know Mohd Rafi as he know KK and he said KK better singer than Mohd rafi!!!!really i don’t beleave it that u know about Mohd Rafi.
Dear Avi
Why Mr Kummar sanu and other who copied KK they never happy when some one said him that they copiend KK ?
Dear Avi
some said that in Ashique Kumar Shanu was better than Kishore da and Abhijeet singing better than Kishore in Yes Boss.Is there anyone can say that Mohd Aziz or sonu sing better than Mohd Rafi????
Dear KK fans do u know about this song from Laxmi-Pyare’s Nafrat ki duniya ko chordkar from Haathi mere Saathi.. Rafi sahab sang that song in 10 minutes. Kishore-da requested the composers to lower the music scale and Mr Rajesh Khanna also want that song 2 singed by kk.Are u still beleave that KK is better singer as Mohd Rafi?!!!
dear Avi
there are 100 of site which says KISHORE is better than RAFi and i agree to it but about Mohd Rafi is better than KK we can’t acount it because not only 100’s or 100000’s I think more than that,Please give me one name who said that KK is better singer than Mohd Rafi
Dear Avi u want us 2 say that KK was I great singer sorry Avi I can’t say that because I think Manny Day is better singer than KK,If u don’t think so than why kk send Amit(son of KK)to learn from Manny Day??!!!.
Dear All Indian friends,
Is it KK more famous than Mohd Rafi in India as Avi said?!!!what I know around the world the Mohd rafi is more famous than there on local singers(ofcourse the countries where they know Mohd Rafi or they know Hindi)
Whoever accepts it or not, the fact is that Indian film music is identified with Mohammed Rafi in the Orient as well as the Occident. It is a matter of pride for Indians that we have had such a wonderful singer with a golden voice. He made Indian music far richer.
Dear Ali,
As i said Rafi is better singer Technically as Sanjeev Kumar is better actor technically.
But noone can touch KISHORE and AMITABH. understand my words.
Dear Rajan, I am not intruding and of course there are 100 of site which says KISHORE is better than RAFi and i m agree to it.
I am putting my comment in the forum because this is on RAFI_KISHORE saga and let all the people know the truth.
Reason for wrting in this blog is for those who don’t know ABCD abt rafi and KISHORE, after reading this blog by RAFI Fans should not get inclined toward RAFI.
So i wanted to tell the truth. And Rajan, I am not intruding boss. Since it is on RAFI-KISHORE SAGA so i m putting my point. No need to get hurt.
Dear Anonymous,
🙂 🙂
Thanx
Thanks mr Avi,
As u said that Mohd Rafi better singer than KK
Very mature comment. Hope the advise is followed and decorum of the site maintained.Enjoy and share information without passing caustic and harsh comments that hurt the fans. We should follow Rafisaabs advice,” Burra mat suno, burra mat dekho, burra mat kaho,” lip-serviced by He-man Dharmendra!
dear Avi,
This website is a tribute to the legends of legend in PLAYBACK SINGING AND THIS FIELD RAFI SAB IS THE SUPERSTAR BECAUSE HE DOMINATED THE FIELD FROM 1950 TO 1980 TILL HE PASSED AWAY. This was inspite of great singers like Mukesh,Talat,Hemant in the early decades. Only phase where Kishore dominated is post Aradhana in the 70s but from 76 it was only Rafi n Kishore till their unfortunate deaths.
But again I n Many connousiurs of Music consider legendary Shanker-Jaikishen,Madanmohan,Naushad,LaksmikantPyarelal,Kalyanji Anandji,S.D.Burman,O.P.Nayyar and R.D.Burman as the best.
Now INFER N ANALYSE THE COMPOSITIONS OF ALL THE ABOVE GREATS U WILL FIND ONE FACTOR DOMINATING EXCEPT IN A SMALL WAY IN R.D.B. U WILL COME OUT WITH AN UNBIASED ANSWER RAFI SAB ALL THE WAY. But if u look at a very Jaundice eyed view then god save listeners like u.
Kindly go to the 50s 60s and listen to all the Golden Music. I am ardent Rafi Bakth but that doesnt stop me from enjoying Kishore s songs with R.D.B,Hemant with S.D.B, Manna dey n Mukesh with S-J, Talat with Salil da etc.
After this also u keep intruding and hurting Rafi fans then it is PLAIN BAD MANNERS N HOPE U UNDERSTAND OUR SENTIMENTS.
Like a true Rafi fan we will pardon ur comments but we cannot say Kishore is the greatest. No doubt he is a good maverick n talented singer and I enjoy some of the songs.So u can KEEP UR COMMENTS TO U OR OTHER WEBSITE AND NO ONE CAN STOP U FROM THAT.
Regards and suggestion to listen to the classics I am sure u will enjoy them as millions of Music Lovers relish them very much
Rajan Iyer
Mein shayar to nahin
Magar Aye Avi……
Jab se dekha meine aapka (comments on rafi Saab)
Mujhko shaayaree aagayee
Joking Yaar
humko haste dekh zamana jalta hai
chor bano ya more yahan sab chalta hai
dear Nair,
People are commenting on Amitabh for endorsing so many products. He is charging for it, does it mean he is second? NO sir, NOOOO….
Shambhu Saheb, Anonmous shair nahi hai, shair wo jo
khud ka kuchh likhe,
na ki dusro ka chura kar
masala lagaye….
Aur jo janate nahi wo e kahe “WAH KYA SHAYARI HAI” :):)
Dear Shambhu, I have not done any “BURAI” against RAFI. He is Legends, I accept it but this is the problem with immature Rafi fans who just look into one direction and keep saying RAFi is GREATEST n blah blah.
We don’t mind if you say Rafi is greatest but same time say KISHORE is also greatest, you can’t look inferior to KISHORE.
for rafi,
Burai teri gar zamana kare
Baian koi jhootha fasana kare
Utaye ye kasmen hazaron magar
Yakeen kaise tera dewana kare.
wah wah anonymous bhai kya shair hai (mukarar)
Dear Avi!
To quote you: “why should he not charged, he was not there to do SAMAJSEVA”. That’s it! You hit the mark. Kishore was doing business with muisc, but for Rafi it was tapasya and he sang for the public – samajseva.
dear Aninymous,
I am happy to know that u know KISHORE songs:
Ghungroo ki tarah bajtaa hee raha RAFI
Kabhi SJ ki pag mein
Kabhi NAUSHAD ki pag mein..Kabhi koi na mila to LP ke pag me..
Bandhtaaa hee chala RAFI Bechara
Ghungroo ki tarah bajtaa hee raha KK
Kabhi SD ki pag mein
Kabhi RD ki pag mein
Bandhtaaa hee chala kk
Dear Anonymous,
KISHORE can only lose to KISHORE only.
KISHORE says: HAMASHE NA JEETA KOI HAMASA Na HOGA KOI.
Sings KK
Duniya se jeete par Rafi se haare
yun khel apna hua?
Dear friends,
It is very sad that you people don’t know the difference between AMITABh and KISHORE.
KISHORE was sampoorna KALAKAAR and Amitabh is nowhere.
KISHORE was/is/will always be the best among all singers. You can listen TV/FM or other musical media. Everywhere atleast you can find one KISHORE songs but not RAFI. It is truth and u people have to accept it. I can’t do anything if you denied this reality but somewhere your heart must be agreed to it.
Nodoubt Rafi was great but he was predicatble and most of his unfamous songs are pathetic which is not same in case of KISHORE.
On Pay:
Dear unknown, i know u r biased toward Rafi but when u r talking abt KISHORE then you shoud have proper info abt him. He did not charge for film “AAshirwad”,”Zameer” and many more…. Boss, I don’t undrstand why should he not charged, he was not there to do SAMAJSEVA. Unknown, I know or even evrybody knows that Lata did not sing for O P Nayyar, it doesn’t mean LATA is worst.
In my last comment,i said AMITABH is one of my fav. but boss don’t forget there are many actors better than him like Sanjeev KUMAR n Naseeruddin Shah. AMITABH can’t touch their stature but still he is great.
So KISHORE is like AMITABH and Rafi is like Sanjeev Kumar who was great but not as famous and vesatile as KISHORE. This is the truth.
Dear ALi,
Pls. talk with real facts, it will definetely help you to gain more info on RAFI and KISHORE, this is with reference to the Pay. In last blog, you said RAFI was high Paid and now u r saying he was low paid.
Truth is he was 2nd highest paid singer during 70’s to till his demise. KISHORE always charge 1 rs. less to LATA only in duests. It was his greatness because she is “SARSWATRI”.
Dear Unknown,
“Zamana jab talak ghata rahe ga Mohd Rafi har waqt yaad aata rahe ga” very much TRUE but he would be remembered after “KISHORE”.
Its upto you to believe or not.
HUM KAB NA HONGE TO RO-RO KE DUNIYA
DHOONDHENGI Mere NISHAAN……….
Mr Avi
As u said that Rafi was great human being but media did not projected KISHORE as good human being I think u r wrong because media is who made kishore da and RD in one film they became super star,If there is honest media u will see that SJ,Nausand,Madan Mohan and mohd rafi these was more as they in Media.
Dear Avi
That is good that u like Bachchan do u know that Bachchan has only 3 or 4 best Actor awards Is it mean that he is not great actor????!as u said that kk is greater than Mohd Rafi because of awards!!!!!!!
In RD first film all songs singed by Mohd Rafi.
Zamana jab talak ghata rahe ga Mohd Rafi har waqt yaad aata rahe ga
Dear friends,
Both Mohd rafi and KK are great singers but what I think that KK was a great singer but Mohd Rafi was is and will be great singer.
some of friends said that some music directors don’t want 2 use new singer as Kishore was like O P Nayar,Do u know that the great Lata never singed for O P Nayar and O P Nayar is the man who gave us or show us Asha ji and many other female singer in the place of Lata ji,Yes as male he used Mohd Rafi but there was no need to use other singer in place of Mohd Rafi because as O P Nayar said that Mohd rafi was not only great singer he was greater human,How it comes that I have a great singer and a great human and look for some one else.
SJ was one of the greatest MD bollywood had when mohd rafi giving them hit why they should go for some else and as female singers they used few new singers.
some like RD but if we are honest he will be not in best 5 greatest MD,the five SJ,Naushad,Madan Mohan,LP,SD,and some others.
some of friends said that RD back 2 Mohd Rafi because LP and Mohd Rafi was better than RD and KK,RD changed 2 Mohd Rafi be RD Mohd Rafi Vs LP mohd Rafi.
There are few people in bollywood we should not compare them 2 any one because they are the best,Mohd Rafi,Lata,Dilip Kummar,Bachchan,Pran,SJ,Naushad Ali ,Madan Mohan and maybe few more.
LIKE BACHCHAN WILL COME AFTER HUNDREDS YEARS ,LIKE PRAN AFTER 1000″s YEARS BUT LIKE MOHD RAFI NEVER WALK ON THIS EARTH AGAIN.
Zamana jab talak ghata rahe ga Rafi har waqt Mohd Rafi yaad aata rahe ga
dear Avi,
My dear friend, Last month in CNN asha said KISHORE was matchless I don’t think that She mean as a singer .
Do u know about film Laila Majnu?because they want KK 2 sing in this film but MD(MADAN MOHAN)said that if he gave music only Mohd Rafi going 2 sing,please put KK in this film Laila Majnu
Many said that KK has his on style and mohd Rafi his on I think they are wrong about Mohd Rafi because Mohd Rafi is 100% singer abou KK yes as I think KK has a style which make him famous,
Yes a agree with at People can become MOHD. RAFI after getting good trainig but they can’t become KISHORE, do u know why?????because they will be better than KK as a singer but they maybe like Mohd Rafi as u siad but not better than Mohd Rafi,kk was not a singer he was actor same as Aamir khan and Mr Bachchan as a singer,sorry dear Avi if I hurt u.
If some one said that kk paid more than Mohd Rafi yes if for some songs only because Mohd Rafi singed many songs low paid for small films and MD.
Give me one song that KK singed it without takeing money for it?????!! about Mohd Rafi there are many songs in some jest 1Rs
Dear Avi,
You have given your opinion but if u ask the music lovers of vintage era there are only 2 best singers Rafi n Lata. This is the era known as the golden era in Hindi film music from the 1950s to 1970 totally dominated by these two doyens of film industry.
In fact Lata has quoted recently in Etv Marathi that whenever she has Rafi as the co-singer it is like ” barabar ka muqabla hoga aaj “. This was also expressed by our late Rafi.
I dont know but u should listen to some of the best songs during this era like suhani raat dhal chuki, Chaudavin ka chand ho, Pukarta chala hoon main,tere ankhon ke siva duniy mein, kar chale fida, jaane walo zara, pardeshiyon se ankhiyan milale, sau baar janam lenge, dil ka bhanwar, din dhal jaaye hai, chal ud ja re panchi,meri awwaz suno to name a few. If you are an unbiased true music lover you will enjoy these songswhich will take u to the world of happiness n enjoyment.
The classics of this era will never come back as legends like Rafii
is not there with us.
I also like kishore s songs from piya ka ghar, Kati patang,Amar prem,Aandhi,Abhimaan,Imtihaan,Dream girl because they are hummable n melodious .But unfortunately the melody got deteiorated as listeners liked ” khayke paan banaraswala type songs.
Today Himesh Reshmiya is singing songs as if he has taken purgolax or castor oil which is my opinion but youngsters like them. This is true ofthe other singer who has play backed for Hashmi.
Todays yougsters who are true music lovers n admire our indian raagas always admire and are simply crazy about Rafi n Lata .
In fact Manna dey has quoted in the Bangalore Radio city that aspiring singers in male keep Rafi as their idol n female keep Lata as their idol.
Padmanabhan
“People can become MOHD. RAFI after getting good training but they can’t become KISHOREâ€. This is probably the funniest remark ever made. Even Kishore would not have dared to say this. Dear Friend, please honestly try to understand the greatness of Rafi, as we are all doing with Kishore. Rafi is a singer whom the country has honored with Padmasri way back in 1964. If your intention is to hurt the Rafi fans with false and arrogant remarks, then we are helpless.
Dear Ali,
I respect ur feeling and ur like. Ali, sorry to say ur information on package is wrong. In one interview Shailendra Singh said, He stopped getting work after KHEL KHEL MEIN n BOBBY because there was rumour that he is charging more than KISHORE and that time KISHORE was high paid singer. This is not my word, this is Shailendra’s word.
My dear friend, Last month in CNN asha said KISHORE was matchless and she had to do homework before singing with LATA and KISHORE. This was telecast in CNN again.
Ali, Rafi was great human being but media did not projected KISHORE as good human being. I personally went to his bungalow in JUHU and there i saw a board “THIS IS LUNATIC ASYLUM”. I think only exception guy can do this.
In one word, People can become MOHD. RAFI after getting good trainig but they can’t become KISHORE.
But i like one thing…One thing common between u and me is AMITABH
FOr me 3 best personalities:
1. KISHORE
2. PANCHAM
3. AMITABH
Thanx.
One word about the so alleged “feminineness†in Rafi’s voice. Feminineness is something which is in Lata Mangeshkar’s voice. What is mistakenly called as feminineness in Rafi’s voice is the boyishness as well the youthfulness in it. The same is in Sonu Nigam’s voice. In Naseeb, Amitabh Bachan looked too old for Rafi’s youthful voice. In 1980, it looked perfect for Raj Babbar and Rishi Kapoor. In Laila Majnu, the crew of the film strongly preferred Rafi’s voice for all the songs picturized on Rishi Kapoor, as he was enacting Majnu for whom soul-stirring and love-stricken renditions were required.
Dear Avi,
There is no one in the world who said bad about some one on TV, Yes Lata ji like KK more than Mohd rafi but what she said about Mohd rafi”like Mohd rafi singer never born again”.do u know what SP,M day and Yesudas said about Mohd rafi of the TV.Asha B said that no one can win Mohd rafi in singing.
It is not mean that what I love it should be best If love Pakistan creckit team it not mean they are the best in the world or better than Indian Team.
KK was a great Actor and good singer but Mohd Rafi only a greatest singer no way to compare Mohd Rafi with KK as a singer.
Would u please answer me that in 70’s why Mohd Rafi MD’s paid from Mohd Rafi than KK for a song???because What I know that MD’s paid for a song 25000 Rs for Mohd rafi and for KK 15000 to 20000 ??????!!!!!!!!if I am not wrong.
If i am not wrong that Mohd Rafi don’t like films line as people who know Mohd Rafi said
There are many great people in Bollywood but I think there are 3 who are the best 1, Mohd Rafi 2, Mr Bachchan 3, Lata as I think
Dear Rajan,
You are absolutely right in few of ur comments and i am agree to it. Rafi and KISHORE, both are my favorite and i hate when somebody try to compare them.
Both were great in their style. NoOne can beat them in their style. As you like Rafi most, I like KISHORE most. KISHORE is always fvorites for Carnatika, If you had heard Mr. Srinivas interview, He said lot of good things abt KISHORE.
In one word, both are incomparable. I hurt if Rafi fans try to show that he is the only great which is not true and its proven also. Sir, Many my Tamil friend, after hearing Rafi songs they said it is famenine voice. I know they are wrong but it is their opinion.
On Rafi Portrait,
He kept Rafi portrait to just remind himself that he is not only great in indian film industry. There is another legend who is in the same league. Dear Rajan, I have seen 13 episode of KK interview with Lata in DD where LATA asked him who is the ur best singer after Saigal(he was KK Guru), KISHORE replied “AMI” which means “I” and LATA was agree to it.
Dear Rajan, Both legends respect each other thats why they are/were great. Sir, Today youngster likes HIMESH but at the same time they listen KISHORE very much.
Dear sir, We should not shy in appaluding deserved guys. I am not fan of HIMESH and i don’t listen to him but i appreciated his work in “BANARAS”. Just listen u will also appreciate if u r really a genuine music lover. I don’t think there is any difference between SONU and HIMESH because both r predictable in their songs. Both sound similar in all songs. In today music, My fav. are SUKHVINDER n HARIHARAN.
Before ending my quote, I must say pls. started listening the quote made by SP, SUresh n Yesudas for KISHORE in “GAATA RAHE MERA DIL” program which was air in 1993-94. It was fabulous.
Dear Rajan, Still you are not accepting the fact and secretly you are comparing the great KISHORE with HIMESH which is not acceptable. HIMESH may/will go out tomorrow but KISHORE ruled for 18-19 yrs. (69-87).
I have great respect for Rafi and i admire the way he bounced back in 1977 but that time KISHORE was already on the top and he shared the same top chair as He (RAFI) could not managed to lower his success.
dear Avi,
Iam not against u or ur choice of favourite singer but pl get all the facts right before hopping to comment.
Iam also a south indian like you but I have got totally different opinion on the 2 singers with my friends who are spread across T.Nadu,Kerala,A.P and Karnataka. Infact some of the ladies who listened to Kishore da thought that the voice suited for older men.(Again no intention of hurting anyone). These people have not listened to hindi film music like u n me.
These examples shouldnt be quoted but u are trying to prove that K.k is the best. Kindly avoid ur jaundiced views and let us enjoy the music of both the legends.
Both Rafi sab n Kishoreda shared good n professional relationship that is the reason Rafi sab charged just 1 Rupee in Chalti ka naam Zindagi.
Amit kumar Kishores son was encouraged by Rafi sab and gave lot of tips to the budding singer.
In London after a programme Rafi sab took both Kishore n Amit for a feast in his house there where they shared some joyous time.
May I ask u why in Kishores house Mohd Rafi s potrait is kept along with K.L Saigal ?
All these proves that both of them respect each other and let us enjoy the lovely melodious music of yesteryears.
Today as rightly pointed by Mohan Flora Himesh Reshmiya is very popular that doent mean that Sonu n Udit are jobless.
Dear Shankar,
Your analysis of some of the comments are good but again you are saying that Ghantasala has sung better than Rafi in ku ku bhole song which I disagree. In a typical Carnatic connotations Ghantasala may have rendered better but how can u compare the art of singing in different styles
? It is like comparing Bhimsen Joshi hindustani singer to sing in carnatic like Balamurali Krishna. Hence pl do not compare in one song of Telugu with the hindi version. Infact few years back Dr Narayan Reddy had told in Etv that he felt happy whenever he hears Rafi sab singing in Telugu songs.
Our S.P.Balasubramaniam and yesudas always listens to a Rafi song regularly which they have commented in Gemini n Kairali channels respectively.
Regarding more farmaish for kishore over Rafi it depends on the programme and the listeners it caters to. If todays youngster is after Himesh then how can they listen to Rafi n Kishore or even Mukesh.
It all depends on the quality of music n their listeners but If you take from 1945 it is always the dominance of the GOLDEN ERA which every music director n singer talks about that was dominated by Rafi, Lata,Mukesh,Kishore,Talat,Manna dey,Hemant kumar,Asha and Geeths Dutt.
P.Narayanan
1980 has a good amount of beautiful songs, both by Rafi and Kishore under LP. Rafi’s rendition of the song “John, Jani, Janardhan†in Naseeb is truly amazing. In his later days Rafi sounded more and more youthful. We must accept that Kishore was also remarkable in “Saagar Kinareâ€.
How do the music dynamics change?
Example: Sonu Nigam- Nowhere! Himmesh Reshammiya- Everywhere!
This is what happened in 1971-1973.
Does what is happening now make Himesh Reshammiya a better singer than Sonu? No! Popular? Yes!
History repeating itself?
Well written, Nair Sir!
Like I have commented earlier, KK did dominate the field of playback singing in the early seventies due to the support of RD and the Rajesh Khanna wave. After his and Dada’s Aradhana, he gave hits after hits with Kishore in films like Kati Patang, Budha Mil Gaya,Hare Rama Hare Krishna, Mere Jeevan Saathi, Amar Prem, Jawani Diwani,Parichay, Seeta Aur Geeta, Do Chor, Rampur ka Lalshman and so on. During this period, RD had little or no use of Rafisaab. What kept Rafisaab going during this time was some patronage he received from other MD’s notably LP.However, RD started losing steam and mediocrity set in with scores in Raja Rani, Shareef Badmash,Joshila, Jheel ke Us Paar,Bandhe Haath.His musical interludes were repetitive and the rythms became stale with Ishq Ishq Ishq becoming the super bore track of his downgradation. How far could his dependence on repetitive western interludes take him? LP also used KK to give super music using interludes and dhol beats with indian appeal and in the process went on to supercede RD with hit scores in Daag, Roti,Imtihan,Dost,Shor,Anurodh,Prem Kahani,Amir Garib,Majboor,Manchali,Aakraman etc. RD kept going down with the onslaught of LP’s dhols. They had used KK to outdo RD, the creator of KK.Like they say, “Lohe Ko Loha Kaat ta Hai! It was in fact RD’s use of the same beats, singers and interludes which had started irritating the listeners and producers and they welcomed the relief that LP brought from RD’s humdrum drone!The moment LP saw that they had the upperhand in the musical chairs, they brought Rafi to the fore and very blatantly. Why was it that RD, who had almost ignored Rafi in the most fruitful phase of his career, had to depend on Rafi in the later phase in films Hum Kisise Kum Nahin, Abdullah,Chandi Sona,Mukti,The Burning Train,Shaan,Phandebaaz,The Great Gambler,Devata, Kaalia,Duniya Meri Jeb Main, Zamaane Ko Dikhana Hai, Daulat Ke Dushman and so on.Why was Rafi again in his favor? Had Rafi become a better singer in the last three years that he was ignored by RD? What had happened to his most favored KK? No Sir, Rafi was the same and KK was the same. It was just that the dynamics of film music had changed. LP were now boss and since they were using Rafi more and churning out hits after hits with him, RD had to bow to the trend. Lp never looked back after the late seventies and by the early eighties RD had reached the nadir of his musical career(Have you heard the KK backed songs of the then invincible Amitabh starrer,Mahaan”? Just pathetic!) I don’t want to sound biased. It is music business dynamics. Rafisaab, Kishoreda, RD and LP were all great and all enjoyed tremendous success. Everyone has some ups and downs in a long career. All were popular and will remain so, no matter what we write. As i wrote earlier, I love both Rafi and Kishore. I also know that in a certain period of time, Kishoreda enjoyed mor popularity than Rafisaab, but I also know that except for those few years in the early seventies, Rafisaab has always been the more popular and revered singer. At the time of his death Rafisaab knew,and we know, that he was back at the top. Kishore Kumar also knew that he was tops when he breathed his last. If only Kishore had given more time to music during the Golden Period of Hindi Film Music-1950’s and 1960’s-would we able to know his full potential under the grand old MD’s of Hindi films. But he was an acting star during that time and Rafi shone very brightly as musical star.
From 1970-76 Mukesh won 3 filmfare awards and one for KK . I think this does not make Mukesh a better singer than KK, though he was also good in many respects. So Rafi’s one award in the 70s does not make him a singer inferior to KK.
It must be admitted that 70-76 was Kishore era. However, Rafi made a grand come back after 1977, and by 80s film music was turning towards more tunefulness – I mean those songs with strong base on the fundamentals of music, though not pure classical – which required a singer like Rafi very much. Yet, KK also was very much in demand because he also had matured to sing such songs. It was neither a Rafi era nor Kishore; both stood equivalently. Unfortunately, destiny took Rafi away. We must note the kind of influence he is exerting even after 26 years of his death; he is as popular and perhaps a bit more than Lata Mangeshkar. Had Rafi been in this world for a few more years, he and Kishore would have made the world of music richer.