The Rafi-Kishore saga
The following article appeared in The Statesman,Calcutta, on Aug.7 th 2005. It will give more food for thought to the ongoing debate about the Rafi personality and magic – Mohan Flora .
Mohd. Rafi was the greatest playback singer, asserts Ranjan Das Gupta as he pays tribute on the melody kings 25th death anniversary. Rafi was a classically trained singer while Kishore was naturally endowed with excellent resonance. The latter was a versatile genius, singer, music director, actor, writer and director all rolled into one. Both were proficient singers but had separate individual styles.
In the 1950s Rafi literally ruled the roost. He was the most favoured singer for veteran composers like Naushad, S.D. Burman, Shanker Jaikishan, Madan Mohan while Kishore was preferred by S.D. Burman and Salil Choudhury who was playback mainly for Dev Anand and his own films. Rafi on the other hand could balance his melodious voice for diverse stars like Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand, Guru Dutt, Rajendra Kumar and Shammi Kapoor.
It is an astonishing fact that O.P. Nayar used Rafi to sing for Kishore Kumar the unforgettable tune Man Mora Bawra in Ragini in 1957. Shanker Jaikishan also had Rafi to sing Ajab Hai Dastan in Shararat in 1958. Says record museum owner Vinod Santhalia, It is simply amazing. Imagine Mohd. Rafi sang for Kishore Kumar in films Kishore himself acted.
Shanker Jaikishan commented, No doubt Kishore Kumar is a good singer. He sang beautifully for me in Rangoli. But Ajab Hai Dastan was simply not Kishores cup of tea. The mukhdas and antaras required a singer of Rafis range and classical background.
Although Kishore Kumar felt bad about this, he could only marvel at Rafis brilliant rendering of the two songs. Rafi characteristically remarked, No one else except Kishore could sing Dukhi Man Mera in Funtoosh so well.
Salil Choudhury was not favourably inclined towards Rafi at one point of time, but even he was compelled to use Rafi for the unforgettable Tootey Huey Khuabo Nay in Madhumati and Koi Soney Ke Dil Wala in Maya and confess that Rafi was indeed peerless.
It is generally known that Rafi and Kishore went through a bad patch in their relationship. Yet it is also true that both liked and respected each other. S.D. Burman openly admitted to Kishore that the three solos in Guide by Rafi could not be matched by any singer. On Dev Anands special request, he composed the Kishore-Lata super hit duet Gata Rahe Mera Dil for Guide. Similarly, Rafis numbers in Teen Deviyan and the haunting duet with Lata Mangeshkar in Jewel Thief were far superior to the Kishore numbers in these films.
In the late 60s when R.D. Burman composed the melody for Tum Bin Jaaun Kahan in Pyar Ka Mausam, he experimented the same solo with both Rafi and Kishore. True, Kishore sang this number by melodiously incorporating his inimitable yodelling. But in the romantic number, Rafi scored over Kishore in melody.
The 60s was also considered Rafis decade though Kishore matured considerably as a singer during this period. The Jungle Mein Mangal number Woh Din Ke Baat Sharan Karo had both Rafi and Kishore together but is somehow not remembered that well. But Shanker Jaikishans Hanste Gate Jahan Se Guzar in Andaz by Rafi quite eclipsed Kishores entire Zindagi Ek Safar in 1971.
Madan Mohan also used both Rafi and Kishore in the song Yu Na Sharma for Parwana in 1972. Kishore sang the happy rendition for hero Navin Nischal. But there was Rafi again to do full justice to the Are Hansnewale, the melancholic aspect of the same song for Amitabh Bachchan.
In the 1970s the Kishore Kumar wave took the Hindi film music by storm and was backed by R.D. Burman. Some critics felt R.D was partial to Kishore and avoided using Rafi. The Rafi Kishore duet Yaadon Ki Barat from the film with the same title in 1973 turned out to be a superhit. But it cannot be categorised either as an exclusive Rafi or a Kishore gem for both sang in perfect harmony.
Subsequently, R.D. Burman opted for Rafi again after four years as no other singer could have rendered so skillfully Chand Mera Dil and Kya Hua in Hum Kisi Se Kum Nahin; that too in a film with many Kishore Kumar superhits like Mil Gaya and Aa Meri Jaan.
When Rafi sang Darde Dil for Laxmikant Pyarelal in Karz in1980 based on a single note, he proved melody was indeed God-gifted to him, remembers upcoming singer Sujan Bose. Kishores Ay Mere Umar Ke and Ek Hasina Thi could not touch that level. The same can be said for Rajesh Roshan’s Yarana where Rafi’s Aare Re Aisa Tarana completely surpassed Kishore’s Sara Zamana and Tere Jaisa.
Mohd. Rafi left for his heavenly abode on 31 July, 25 years ago. Remembers author Nabaran Bhattacharya, The photo of a silent, sad and grief-struck Kishore in the newspapers portrayed very well that no one except him understood what an irreparable loss had taken place in Indian film music.
As Kishore himself said when Jagjit Singh criticised the Rafi gharana, How dare these so-called ghazal singers criticise an icon that Manna Dey, Mukesh and I dare not criticise. Rafi was unique.
Dear Sagar,
Again one info for u, it will help u to grow because it seems like u r 24-25 yrs. old, looks little immature.
YAHOO word is sung by PRAYAAG RAAJ.
Tell me one song where RAFI shout in sur
for e.g. last line from BACHANA E HASINO,
KISHORE sang ” CHAK CHIK CHA CHA CHA CHA” in very high peach.
I know you people will say it is all BAKWAS.
Dear Anmol
This is ur comment
================================
Same as music composer his compostions were brillant certainly superior that the C grade music composers like S Mohinder, Iqbal Khurashi, C Arjun, etc of that time.
==============================
Do you really think KISHORE composition was just better than C grade composer. I should get away from RAFI shadow n listen that composition as music lover, u will find it is genious work.
There is echo sound in “AA CHAL KE TUJHE MAIN LE KE CHALU” song, i may be wrong but i have never heard this kind of experiment in any prev. movie of that time.
Dear Sagar,
I have sympathy with you and on ur knowledge.
In Yaado KI BAARAT, i feel KISHORE sounds/sings better, same in song
“MERE MEHBOOB KA BANKAPAN”, though this is full urdu song, Pls. listen the way KISHORE says “ALLAH ALLAH”, mind blowing.
In same movie there is another urdu lyrics “SARKATI JAAYE HAI RUKH SE NAQAB”, KISHORE sang better than LATA. Pls. listen it.
For ur information, KISHORE sang for SHAMMI, film VIDHAATA, “superhit song “SAAT SAHELIYA KHADI KHADI”.
Boss pls. build some knowledge in music and then write comments.
KISHORE sang patriotic songs in film AAKRAMAN, it is equally better as other songs. “DEKHO VEER JAWANO APNE KHUN PE ILZAAM NA AAYE”
Sagar, pls. get some more knowldge on ur RAFI and of course the Genious, KISHORE.
Dear Avi we have no problem when u said that KK was a great singer but the problem is that when u said that KK is BETTER singer than Mohd Rafi.
Please read these word said for Mohd Rafi from Naushand Ali,how true are these words.
Tujhe naghmon ki jaan ahle nazar yoon hi nahi kahte
Tere geeton ko dilon ka humsafar yoon hi nahi kahte
Dukhi the laakh fir bhi mutmain the dard ke mare
Teri aawaz ki shabnam se dhul jate the gham sare
Teri tano me husne zindagi leta tha angdai
Tujhe baksha tha allah ne andaze maseehai
Tu hi tha pyar ka ek saaz is nafrat ki duniya me
Ghanimat thi teri aawaz is nafrat ki duniya me
Mahfilon ke daman me sahilo ke aaspas
Ye sada goonjegi sadiyon tak dilon ke aaspas.
Dear Friends,
Hello to all and Thanx to Rashid for replyin.
I would like to appologize for the inappropriate words used for KISHORE , LATA , ASHA , R.D. But the truth doesnt change even if I do not use bad words. Forget that it won’t happen again.
Avi my friend it is absolutely wrong that u consider Rafi and Kishore at same height you need to take some rest , eat fresh and think fresh . I will give you one example now listen and read.
1971 MELA film the song RUT HAIN MILAN KI , this song has some punjabi words in it which are to be said in between the song which Rafi and Lata did , did you noticed that when in high pitch note LATA’S voice was torn she was not able to say the words and sing properly it was Rafi Saab who took the flow of the song properly.This you would understand only if you know about music.
Another example 1972 Yaadon ki Barat the title song , please hear the song its a duet between Rafi and Kishore , just check how Kishore lost his temprament in between as if he is barking in that song , again Raf Saab took away the melody.
Another example which i think is important , plz tell me how many Bhajan’s and Patriotic songs have Kishore sung ? The answer is ” 0 “.
One more example , Suresh Wadkar the famous singer who is preferred by Illayaraja , has got his training from Rafi Saab for few years.
One more example Shammi Kapoor never used Kishore’s voice , listen to Yahoo !!! from Junglee , the word Yahoo !! is spelled by Rafi Saab so intensly that no one can dare to say it.
One more example ” TU IS TARAH SE MERE ZINDAGI ” just listen the vibration of Rafi Saab’s voice in that song.
My dear friend Kishore got good songs which were initially for Rafi Saab , but Kishore didnt used his intensity his voice is versatile but has no base just goes on and on without flow.
Friends this post is not offending now.
Dear Rafians one more time : enjoy our own Rafi Saab
Regards
Sagar
Hi Shankar,
Thanks for your compliments. I will certainly try to listen KK numbers which you mentioned. In my office all these linkes are blocked, at home I do not have internet. In future I will certain listen to them provide my view. You can provide for e-mail ID.
Most fans are inclined and baised to listen to a certain rythmn. This is the case with actor-actress also many are inclined to a specfic instinct. There are many who only appreacite Mukesh, there are many who only non-film Ghazals they don’t even know you Madan Mohan is. Perhaps how ever small an achievement an artist has under his/her credit we have no right to criticize any one as such, many don’t even achieve that much also. Yes there can be comparisons , analysis, etc. Who knows there could be even far superior singers living, but they never got a chance.
It took me a very long time to appreaciate KK because bais of classical was there in my head. Once the bais was gone in fact I appreciated other singers as well.
KK’s intial setback in 50s could be his inability to shape himself as per the market demand. Example – Urdu pronounciation – infact Rafi had a problem initially. Range of operation which we discussed. Twist and Turns which KK mastered later. Many other factors. The result which when KK tried different things like acting, Comidy, humor it brough him in comparison every where, thought he can never be considered in the category of BAD in any one them.
As an actor his co stars where A great Actress like Madhu Bala, Nutan, Vijantimala, Meena Kumari, etc. But since there were Dilip Kumar, Dev Anand & Raj Kapoor most of his works were over shadow.
Similarly as a Comidian there were Jonny Walker, Mehmood, Om Prakash, etc who were specailists in their area. Keshto Mukherjee just did one silly act through out his career, but he charises mass appeal for that till date.
Same as music composer his compostions were brillant certainly superior that the C grade music composers like S Mohinder, Iqbal Khurashi, C Arjun, etc of that time.
Because of these comparisions which KK faced he was not able to charish mass appeal in any area as such. Most artists whethere singers, MD, actos, comidians, etc they concentrated in one area knowing their limitations and putting extra efforts on there strong factors. This was not the case with KK in 50s and 60s.
In late 60s and 70s KK concertrated only on singing, so one can see the results. Since KK charied mass appeal a singer in 70s his all previous achievements as an actor, commiden, film maker, director, music composer, song writer, etc. will be looked upon as great quantities of a singer by history. That makes him a legend.
Refering to Shiv Khera’s book on ‘You Can Win’ there is a line ‘Winners Do not do different things but they do it differently’. So looking at the varitions , senstiveness, twits & turns which KK provides in 70s, he creates a slot for himself which defines the KK trademark. Lets not try to compare whether other singers can do this, do that, etc. and respect KK for this achievements.
Dear Rafi Fans,
I think you people are not understanding me and Shankar. Even i feel from bottom of my heart that there is no comparison between them and everyone has their own likes. few likes KISHORE and few like Rafi.
But my dear friend, if u read the blog from start, u will know that Rafi fans are using rediculous words against KISHORE to prove Rafi is great.
Thats what prompt me to write. I don’t have any issue if u say Rafi is greatest but don’t say he is better than KISHORE.
According to me, Both stood at same height.
Hope it helps u to understand.
Hi Sagar
This is Rashid here i got your sms thank you very much for your sms and I have read your comments for KK
let anybody tell anything , but we are Rafi Sahab’s fan and Rafi sahab were never any passing any comments to any body
we must follow the Rafi sahab’s way
If others are telling that they are great singers let them tell
The whole world knows who is the greatest amongst all i.e Rafi sahab
So my dear freind don’t use any bad words to any any singer , I request you
Dear Avi: Sometimes truth hurts. When a batsman is declared LBW, typically he blames the umpire for a bad decision. You are like that cricketer, who doesn’t want to face the fact. Kishore was simply an ordinary singer. He had no real talents, except mimicking comics, and looking stupid, which he did very well. Rafi was was a true singer, not indulging in stupid acts like Kishore comedy antics like the songs of Chalti Ka Naam Gadhi, but singing gems like ” Oh duniya ke Rakewale, Barsatt ki Raat, Chaudwin Ka Chand, Muduban Me Radhika, Mere Mehboob, Tere Mere Sapne, Aap Ke Haseen Rukh par, Tareef Karoon, Yun to Hamne lakh haseen dekhe hain etc. Be truthful Avi, can Kishore really close to matching the greatness of Rafi. Mr, Avi, you are like the cricketer who has been given out LBW, but does not believe he is out. So be a sports and and go to the pavillion, and listen to some great Rafi songs. May then truth will come out. I can only hope.
Dear Shankar,
As us said that KK singed in 1948 after 4 years Mohd Rafi became the King i mean from 1952 until 1970 and from 1977 to 1980 as sam kk fans said you,Avi and Shankar as u said that Mohd Rafi was workless because kk singed more than Mohd Rafi from 70’s and what from 1948 to 1970 Is it right to say that KK was workless??!
You said that KK have no Music family background I think ur wrong because his elder brother(A K) who worked was a singer and Actor,he said that KK was small he cut his finger and cried all day for that his voice became good!!!!
Dear Avi and Shankar KK was great filmi singer but please if u want him 2 be great as u want please don’t compare KK with any trained singer or with Mohd Rafi never and never.
Really i don’t understand how some one can honestly say that kk is better SINGER than Mohd Rafi!!!!!!!!!!!!how it comes!!!!!!!!!????????????for me it same If u show some one at night the moon and he said no that is Sun.I hope u understant what mean,Raj Kapoor jest had few songs which singed by Mohd Rafi and Raj Kapoor said about Mohd Rafi that king with out crown,
sorry dear Shankar and Avi but this what I feel.
Dear Shanker,
I listened to the KK songs suggested by you. Very good. Thanks! In those songs, he is trying to be a Saigal clone, which many other singers also were practicing then. However, it is said that SD Burman once heard KK singing (probably his Saigal mimicking) and asked him to develop his own style of singing and he thenceforth helped Kishore in that. If this is true, then I must say (a personal feeling), it is SD Burman, by giving him too simple and comic songs, who spoiled KK’s talent who would have, if were under someone else, developed into a much better singer with a good voice and singing style. In that case, KK might not have [probably] become the rage as he was in early 70s, as he then would have been in a different and high genre. Again, RD Burman also might have used Kishore Kumar for popularizing his numbers at the expense of KK’s own musical development. Really, the Kishore Kumar whom I heard in those songs sounds different. Even then, it makes him at par with other trained singers, not Rafi, who is quite far ahead than the rest.
Regards
Nair
DEAR MR.AVI……
WHY ARE YOU SPOILING YOUR ENERGY ON SUCH AN STUPID DEBATE THAT WHO IS THE BEST AND MORE VERSATILE “MD.RAFI” OR “KISHORE KUMAR”???
SO FAR THE MUSIC WORLD IS CONCERNED…… BOTH OF THEM HAPPEN TO BE THE TWO PILLARS OF THE NUSIC WORLD. HINDI FILM MUSIC IS IN COMPLETE WITHOUT THESE TWO LEGENDS……….. DON’T YOU AGREE??????
KISHORE KUMAR HAS BEEN AN ALL TIME HIT SINGER……….. DON’T YOU AGREE?????
KISHORE KUMAR WAS THE HIGHLY PAID SINGER AFTER THE DEATH OF MD.RAFI…………… DONT YOU AGREE?????????
LATA ALWAYS APPRECIATED KISHORE KUMAR FOR HIS RENDITION………….. DONT YOU AGREE??????????
KISHORE KUMAR HAS THOUSANDS OF ADMIRERS IN KARNATIKA…………………DON’T YOU AGREE???????????
******************* I ALSO AGREE *************************
BUT………
YOU SHOULD ALSO AGREE WITH SOME MORE FACTS THAT……….
SO FAR THE PLAY BACK SINGING IS CONCERNED ‘MD.RAFI’ WAS THE LAST WORD IN THE BOOKS OF PLAYBACK SINGING.
MIND IT….. I AM TALKING ABOUT ‘PLAYBACK SINGING’
IT WAS MD RAFI WHO WAS CALLED ‘THE VOICE OF THE STARS’.
KISHORE KUMAR WAS ALSO PRESENT AT THAT TIME BUT ALL THE MUSIC DIRECTORS WERE BOUND TO WORK WITH RAFI SAHEB DUE TO HIS HIGH VELOCITY AND QUALITY,RANGE AND FLUCTUATION,RENDERING AND ACCENT, FLEXIBILITY AND MODULATION. RAFI SAHEB WAS NOT IN COMMAND TO ORDER AND FORCE EVERY PRODUCER AND MUSIC DIRECTOR TO TAKE HIM FOR THEIR PRODUCTS. IT WERE THE MUSIC DIRECTORS WHO ALWAYS GAVE PRIORITY AND PREFERENCE TO MD.RAFI NOT FOR A GRANT OR TO OBLIGE HIM BUT TO ENHANCE THE QUALITY OF THEIR PRODUCT AND TO GET MORE AND MORE OF THEIR TUNES.
YOU MUST BE AND ADMIRER OF R.D.BURMAN AND HIS FATHER S.D.BURMAN WHO GAVE A NEW LIFE OR I MUST SAY A COMMERCIAL AND PROFESSIONAL SUPPORT TO KISHORE KUMAR THAT TIME WHEN RAFI SB.WAS WORKLESS ACCORDING TO YOU.
BEING WORKLESS DOESNOT MEAN OR CONFIRM THE DEPRICIATION OF ONE’S QUALITY AND TALENT. CHANGE HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE RULE OF NATURE……. AFTER A LONG LONG YEARS OF LISTENING TO MD.RAFI IN ALL COLOURS ALMOST; PEOPLES ACCEPTED THE CHANGE WHEN IT CAME INTO THE VOICE OF KISHORE KUMAR. THE CHANGE WAS ACCEPTABLE AND APPLAUSABLE BUT ULTIMATELY THE REAL LOVERS OF MUSIC AND VOICE STARTED MISSING MD.RAFI ONCE AGAIN SND THIS IS THE REASON THAT HE CAME BACK WITH A BANG.
WHEN PARDAH HAI PARDAH, CHAND MERA DIL, MAINE POOCHHA CHAND SE,KIYA HUA TERA WADA AND MERE DOST KISSA YEH KYA HOGAYA CAME…. KISHORE KUMAR WAS PRESENT IN THE INDUSTRY WHY DIN’T THE MUSIC DIRECTORS APPROACHED HIM FOR THESE SONGS???? YOU KNOW THE ANSWER…. BECAUSE THE HEAVY AND DRASTIC VOICE WHICH CHANGED WITH THE TIME WAS NOT SUITABLE FOR THESE SONGS.
IT DOESN’MEAN KISHORE KUMAR GONE WORKLESS.
MY DEAR FRIEND I WOULD SUGGEST YOU NOT TO COMPARE THESE TWO LEGENDS FROM EACH OTHER. IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE YOU MUST BE HAVING THE FULL INFORMATIONS AND STUFF TO PROOF YOUR VERDICT SO FAR THE FACT IS CONCERNED……….
KISHORE KUMAR IS A FEVER……………………. WHO MAKES YOU HOT
BUT…..
MD.RAFI IS A VIRUS……………… WHICH RUNS WITH BLOOD IN YOUR BODY.
AND YOU KNOW A VIRUS IS ALWAYS MORE POWERFUL??
NAUSHAD, O.P.NAYYAR, SHANKER JAIKISHAN,LAXMI-PYARE TO SAPAN JAGMOHAN,SONIC OMI,MANAS MUKHERJEE AND NIKHIL-VINAY EVERY ONE OF THEM ARE TODAY ALIVE IN THE PAGES BECUSE SOMEWHERE MD.RAFI WAS THE PART OF THEIR WORKS.
CAN U IMAGINE ‘O DOOR KE MUSAFIR’ IN KUSHORE KUMAR’S VOICE??
‘ O DUNIYA KE RAKHWALE’ ‘ZINDA BAAD ZINDA BAAD AI MOHABBAT’
‘DEEWANA HUA BADAL’ NA TO KARVAN KI TALAASH HAI’ ‘YEH DIL TUM BIN KAHIN’ ‘JHILMIL SITARON KA AANGAN’ ‘UFF YEH ZINDAGI UFF YEH DAUD DHOOP’ AND THOUSANDS OF SONGS LIKE THESE??????
JUST LISTEN CAREFULLY TO THESE SONGS OR I AM PROVIDING YOU A LITTLE LIST WHICH WILL ENABLE YOU TO UNDERSTAND THE QUALITY OF MD.RAFI. MY FRIEND …. NO ARGUE, NO COMMENT, NO DEBATE JUST A REQUEST TO YOU IS TO LISTEN THESE SONGS IN A WELL EQUIPPED SYSTEM IN YOUR BED ROOM WITH LOW LIGHTS AND A DELICATE MOOD
WITH SHANKAR OR PREFERABLY ALONE………………………….. BUT NOT IN A CRITISING MOOD. LISTEN TO THESE SONGS,
1. MAIN KAUN HOON MAIN KAHAN HOON MUJHE YEH HOSH NAHI
FIL: MAIN CHUP RAHUNGI
2. JITNI LIKHKHI THI MUQADDAR MEIN HUM UTNI PEE CHUKAY
FILM: NAI ROSHNI
3. YEH ZULF AGAR KHUL KE BIKHER JAEY TO ACHCHHA
FILM: KAJAL
4. MUJHE LECHALO AAJ US GALI MEIN JAHAN PEHLE PEHLE YEH DIL
FILM: SHARABI (OLD)
5. KOI SAGHAR DIL KO BEHLATA NAHI
FILM: DIL DIYA DARD LIYA
6. MERI DUNIYA MEIN TUM AAYE KIYA KIYA APNE SAATH LIYE
FILM: DASTAK.
7. O’MERE SHAHE KHUBAN OH MERI JAANE JANANAN
FILM: LOVE IN TOKYO
8. AAJA RE AA ZARA AA, LEHRA KE AA ZARA AA
FILM: LOVE IN TOKYO
9. MERE MEHBOOB TUJHE MERI MUHABBAT KI QASAM
FILM: MERE MEHBOOB
10. KAL RAAT ZINDAGI SE MULAQAAT HOGAYI
FILM: PALKI.
AND HENCE, IF YOU ARE UNSATISFIED AND STUCKED ON YOUR VERDICT, I SHALL GIVE YOU SOME MORE LIST.
MY EFFORT IS NOT TO INSULT OR DEGRADE THE GREAT KISHORE KUMAR
BUT ONLY TO MAKE YOU REALIZE THAT WHAT “MD.RAFI” IS. AND MY FRIEND IF YOU ARE A MUSIC LOVER AND HAVE A KNOWLEGE OF VOICE AND PLAYBACK SINGING AND KNOW ABOUT MUSIC AND DON’T WANT TO BE COUNTED YOURSELF IN THE LIST OF THE ‘MUSIC BLINDS’,………… JUST KEEP AWAY YOUR RELUCTANT VIEWS OTHERWISE NOBODY WILL BE AMAZED UPON YOUR WORDS THAT
” HIMESH RESHAMIYA IS THE BEST SINGER OF THE MILLENIUM”
AND NO DOUBT AGRA WILL BE YOUR NEXT DESTINATION.
REGARDS
JAWAID NASEEM
jawaid77in@yahoo.com
09331052384
dear sagar81,
Nazar vo jo dushman pe bhi mehrban ho
Zuban vo jo ek pyar ki dastan ho
Rafi ne kaha hai mere doston
buri hai burai mere doston
Bura mat suno
Bura mat dekho
Bura mat kaho
pls for rafi Bura mat likho
dear unknow, it’s u who doesn’t know anything about kk and rafi.
for example, most of u who have bought the golden collection of kk or read about kk think that kk’s earliest songs were for s.d.burman, songs like “jeevan ke safar mein rahi”, “dukhi man mere” etc. but none of u might have listened to kk’s first song “marne ki duaen kyon mangoon”. it was from the movie “ziddi” in 1948, and he sang very well in mandra saptak. most of u might not have heard “husna bhi hai udas” from the movie “fareb” in 1953. u should listen to that song and u’ll see another facet of kk that was not utilized at all. he sings like talat and does very well. similarly, the kk-lata duet from the same movie (“fareb”) “aa mohabbat ki basti” is an excellent duet that again shows kk’s other side.
none of u might have heard “jagmag jagmag karta nikla”. once again it’s a difficult slow song in the mandra saptak.
the music directors for all the above songs were stalwarts like khemchand prakash, anil biswas, husnlal-bhagatram. actually, SD and RD typecast kk and prevented him from growing. LP, KA, rajesh roshan, and to some extent bappi lahiri, showed kk’s versatility.
dear anmol, since u r the more unbiased among people here, i request u to go indianscreen.com, scroll down and click on “songs page” (in big blue letters). then search for “husna bhi hai udas” and “aa mohabbat ki basti”. this is a sincere request. u’ll not be disappointed.
dear anmol,
thanks for ur inputs. u r the most unbiased among the rafi fans here. it’s good to see that u appreciate music. and a person who appreciates music will appreciate any singer who sings well, even if he has a personal favourite.
i am a rafi fan also though a bigger kk fan but seeing all the anti-kk blogs here made me angry. a true fan of music should be able to appreciate both.
Dear Sagar81,
As Ali said that as Mohd Rafi fans we should be good human as our Mohd Rafi was 2 not use bad words,I don’t thank that film Teesri Manzil songs are made for good singer KK and I don’t think at that time new MD will try new singer because there was only Mohd Rafi everwhere,Please don’t take what dear Avi and Shankar said because they don’t know much about KK and Mohd Rafi I think Mr Nair,PADMANABHAN, Anmol Singh and all of us know more than them.
Dear Sagar81,
Offourse no way 2 compare Mohd Rafi with kk but not good for us as Mohd Rafi fans 2 use bad word for any singer.KK was a good singer as Naushand said we are not better know than Naushand.
Thanks dear Anmol Singh and Nair.
DEAR AVI,
Hi i just read some of your comments above but after posting my previous one. Buddy I would suggest you that you should not come here on this site and waste your precious time in convincing or prooving what KISHORE MONKEY KUMAR was , as we all know what his category was , The music starts with RAFI and ends with RAFI , I hope this will help you if not then I would suggest you to listen ” YEH DUNIYA YEH MEHFIL ” and go to sleep or listen ” KOI NAHI HAIN MERA ” from SAMJHOTA . Avi I hope this clears you because it shows your immature and childish behaviour when you bring KISHORE MONKEYS songs to compare with RAFI SAAB . This is high par that we all are trying to come out of KISHORE MONKEY MANIA but u seem to be a hopeless case. If you want lessons on KISHORE MONKEY’S nature you may debate with me I will answer all your queries I hope you are satisfied now.
So my dear RAFIANS , listen and listen and listen to our very own RAFI SAAAB.
Hi Folks and Hello to all Rafi Saab’s ” DEEWANO ”
Well as we all know that in early seventies i.e. when 60’s was about to end R.D. Burman emerged as a music director when he got his hit from 68’s Teesri Manzil which he was adament that Kishore is going to sing all songs for Shammi Saab , but Shammi Saab refused to this and convinced Nasir Hussain the then director of that movie that Rafi Saab will only sing for him , and rest his HISTORY can we imagine the songs of Teesri Manzil in KISHORE’S VOICE , it will be a insult of music. Because KISHORE , LATA , R.D. ASHA are all culprits and are the one who are responsible for RAFI Saab’s fallback in the seventies but who can forget the KYA HUA TERA WAADA , LATA never mind that all people even today call her nightingle but she is a pissed lady and so her sister ASHA , because they were no match when they sang with RAFI SAAB in duet because there voice use to get loose infront of him so they prefered that IDIOT KISHORE KUMAR who use to do monkey dance . Naushaad Saab once said that KISHORE is a good singer but I can’t work with him because he doesnt know MUSIC.
I challenge even today that KUMAR SANU , ABHIJEET , SONU NIGAM etc should come up and sing O DUNIYA KE RAKHWALO from Baiju Bawra , all these singers will be paralyzed even if they try to go in high octane.
Madan Mohan once said that my songs with Rafi are only taken away with his voice no need to give music , I should not be paid , did ever KISHORE MONKEY got this compliment.
And also this IDIOT KISHORE has not sung any bhajan , patriotic song IN HIS MUSIC , FILMI CAREER , but Rafi Saab has did it.
Some time ago on ZEE TV they have this program called SA RE GA MA and they had invited NAUSHAAD SAAB and O.P NAYYAR SAAB , in the judges round the contestant asked what will be his song , NAUSHAAD Saab stood up and said ” GAA DO KOI RAFI KA HALKA GAANA ” , that asshole contestant was not able to do so and he had to compromize on KISHORE’S MONKEY DANCE SONGS.
In the same show SONU NIGAM sang the ” DIN DHAL JAAYE ” from GUIDE and folks you won’t imagine that NAUSHAAD SAAB’S eyes were filled with tears , I think this is the relationship we should have with a GURU it was truly mesmerising.
Rafi Saab’s fallback was only due to LATA , ASHA and KISHORE , RD. these bengali assholes came together and formed a group.But never Rafi Saab went to any one of them for songs.
Also want to point out that in today’s music shows no one and I mean no one dares to sing Rafi Saab’s songs because they know that their voice doesnt have that intensity to sing the songs.
Rafi Saab today is with god as good things have a small life, but I pray for Rafi Saab everyday.Folks just imagine if Rafi Saab would have been alive today he would have been around 86 years , still if he would have composed a single song with A.R.RAHMAN , just think what kinda true voice experience we would have enjoyed , but thanks to LATA , ASHA , KISHORE and R.D. they were jealous of Rafi Saab and today we have to suffer.
Guys please keep your love for Rafi Saab for ever he was a true human being . I have the priviledge to inform u all that I have more than 500 songs of SOLO RAFI , anyone interested can contact me my email is :
aries6271@excite.com.
Thank you friends
DEAR AVI,
WE KNOW U ARE GIVING BLIND N ALSO DEAF VIEW IN YOUR BLOGS,PL KEEP FACTS RIGHT, HOW CAN U SAY THAT MADAN MOHAN, ROSHAN AND KHAYYAM GAVE PREFERENCE TO MUKESH OVER RAFI.
EVEN A BACHA WHO HAS INTEREST IN OLD HINDI FILM SONGS KNOWS WELL THAT RAFI HAS SUNG FOR MADAN MOHAN AND ROSHAN MAXIMIMUM NUMBER OF SONGS OVER 90 %.
DO U KNOW THAT RAFI HAS SUNG MAX SOLOS WITH MADANMOHAN NOT NAUSHAD OR O.P.NAYYAR?. IN CASE OF KHAYYAN RAFI,MUKESH WERE PREFERRED FOLLOWED BY KISHORE,
HOW CAN U GET THIS FACT SO WRONG WHICH IS THE BLOOMMER OF THIS CENTURY. PL THINK BEFORE WRITING IN THIS WEBSITE OR QUIT WRITING .
WHAT DO U KNOW ABOUT RAFI SAHAB WHEN U CANNOT ANSWER MY QUIZ?
PL STOP N GROW EVEN IF UR 31YRS.
REGARDING THE FILM SONGS OF POST 1980 AFTER RAFI SAHAB LEFT THE QUALITY GOT DETERIORATED AND TILL TODAY ONLY VERY FEW SONGS CAN QUALIFY AS MELODY.
REGARDING FILMS FROM 1977 INSPITE OF GREAT EFFORT BY RDB. IN HUM KISISSE…. HE WAS UNFORTUNATELY FORGOTTEN AND IF U READ THE FILM ADS DURING THOSE PERIOD IT WAS L.P, RAJESH ROSHAN AND BAPPI LAHIRI DOMINATING THE FIELD TILL LAKSHMIKANTS DEATH. HOW SAD N FATEFUL THAT TALENTED RD.B WAS NOTRECOGNISED BY THE FILM WORLD AND HE CAME BACK IN 1942 LOVE STORY BUT HE WAS NOT THERE TO ENJOY GLORY IN THE LATE 80S. THIS IS SHEER BAD LUCJ.
UR QUWSTION ON INNOVATION MY SON WHO IS JUST 14 YRS CAN YODDLE LIKE KISHIORE WIHTOUT ANY STRAIN. SO IT IS NOT BIG DEAL AT ALL.
BUT WE HAVE TREASURES OF LOVELY MELODY WHICH RAFI SAHAB HAS LEFT INCLUDING THE HARKATEIN OF SHAMMI KAPOOR STYLE. DO U KNOW THAT FOR THE FILM EVENING IN PARIS SHAMMI WHO USED TO ATTEND ALL RECORDINGS COULD NOT MAKE IT N RAFI SANG JUST LIKE HOW SHAMMI WOULD HAVE IN THE PICTURE WHICH SHAMMI ACKNOWLEDGED IN RADIO CITY. ALSO IN KASHMIR KI KALI RAFI N SHAMMI CHANGED THE STRATEGY WHCIH WAS NOT ACCEPTED BY O.P.NAYYAR. BUT THIS EXPERIMENTATION BETWEEEN THE TWO BCAME GREAT SUCCESSS.
I CAN QUOTE SEVERAL SIMILLIAR EXAMPLES BUT FIRST U HAVE TO GO TO THE CD SHOP N PURCHASE THE MELODIES OF YESETERYEARS FROM THE FILMS DOSTI,CHAUDAVIN KA CAHND,DIL EK MANDIR,DEEDAR,TERE GHAR KE SAAMNE, MERE SANAM, AAJ AUR KAL, KAAJAL, NEELKAMAL,JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE,AADMI AND NAUNIHAL TO START WITH.
IF U WANT TO ENJOY THE GOLDEN ERA PL START WIHT THE ABOVE U WILL KNOW THAT IN THE HISTORY OF HINDI FILM MUSIC THERE WAS EMPEROR RAFI SAB N EMPRESS LATA WHEN THE MELODY WAS THE BADSHAH OF MUSIC.
IF U HAVE ANY SHAME LEFT U SHOULD APOLOGISE TO ALL MUSIC LOVERS N RAFI FANS IMMEDIATELY FOR THE BLUNDERS IN YOUR BLOGS.
DEAR SHANKAR,
I HAVE ONLY ONE POINT TO MAKE WHEN U SAY THAT MANNA IS BETTER THAN RAFI IN CLASSICAL SONGS. PL LISTEN TO BASANT BAHAAR SONG DUNIYA NA BHAYE MUJHE AB TO BHULALE , ANKHIYAN SANG ANKHIYAN, MADHUBHAN MEIN RADHIKA , MAN TADPAT HARIDARSHAN KO TO NAME A FEW THAT RAFI HAS MATCHED WITH MANNA IN THIS CLASSICAL DIFFICULT FIELD EVEN WHEN RAFI HAD VERY LITTLE TRAINING.
THOSE DAYS MDS VOICE OF STARS WAS RAFI N THEY DIDNT WANT THE SAME YOUTHFUL VOICE TO SING FOR SAY RAJ KAPOOR OR BALRAJ.
I AGREE WITH U THAT MUKESH FANS TELL HE IS THE BEST N SAME WITH RAFI-KK FANS.
BUT IF U R SAYING THAT KISHORE HAS SUNG MORE HINDI SONGS THAN RAFI IS HARD TO ACCEPT. PL PROVIDE CONCRETE PROOF CERTIFIED BY AUTHORITIES.
WE ALL RAFI FANS N MUSIC LOVERS FEEL THAT IN TERMS OF VERSATALITY FROM PATRIOTIC, BHAJANS, GHAZALS,KIDS,COMEDY TO ROMANTIC N SAD SONGS HE HAS REGALED US N TOUCHED OUR HEART BY THE MELODIOUS MAGICAL N ENCHANTING VOICE.
FOR AAM AADMI CHAHE KOI JUNGLLE KAHE, RAMAYYA VASTAVAYYA, BADAN PE SITARE, AJI AISA MAUKA PHIR KAHAAN MILEGA, YEH CHND KA ROSHAN CHEHERA, OH HASEENA ZULFO WAALI, PARDA HAI PARDA, KYA HUA TERA VAADA, JOHN JAANI JANARDHAN TO NAME A FEW IS SUFFICIENT TO MAKE RAFI FAMOUS, BUT FOR THE VINTAGE LISTENERS LIKE ME IT IS MAN RE KAHE TU DHEER DHARE, DHIN DHAL JAAYE HAI, SUHANI RAAT DHAL CHUKI, YEH DUNIYA YEH MAHFIL, AAP KI NIGAHEN MEIN KUCH KAHA TO ZAROOR, CHAHUNGA MEIN TUJHE LIKE SONGS TO NAME A FEW TAKE US TO THE HEAVENLY MELODIES N IT IS TRUE OUT OF WORLD EXPERIENCE.
THIS DOESNT STOP ME FROM LISTENING TO KISHORE SONGS FRON THE EARLY 1970S, MUKESH FOR R.K, HEMANT FOR DEV ANAND , MANNA DEY FOR CHARACTER SONGS. TALAT FOR DILIP ETC.
HENCE DO NOT MAKE ANY KIND OF WRONG STATEMENTS WHICH WILL BE LITTLE RAFI N KISHORE AND SHOW UR BUASED ONE SIDED VIEW. PL LISTEN TO THEM N EVEN IF U R TALKING THE SAME DO NOT DISTURB US AS WE ARE HERE TO GAIN COMMON KNOWLEDGE N BE IN THE MELODY WORLD OF RAFI SAHAB.
REGARDS,
PADMANABHAN
Regarding Rafi’s innovation. Have you not yet understood that the whole Rafi himself is an innovation? The most prominent is his ability to be one with the actor. This is not withstanding that every Rafi song has an identity – in terms of voice, in terms of flow, in terms of the character, in terms of the hero on whom the song is picturized, and in many other terms. I only assert his ability to live with the actor. In case of Mukesh, he sounds alike for all….be it Raj Kapoor, or Amitabh Bachan. This owes to Mukesh’s limitation in terms of range. The same applies to Manndey and Mahendra Kapoor. Even KK cannot escape this mold. Rajesh Khanna as well as Dev Anand sounds similar. Yodeling (the so called innovation) sounds same for all. Yesudas – the uncrowned king of Malayalam music – sounds same for all actors. However, he is so skilled in adapting the mood of the song, which KK is also good at. But when it comes to Rafi, a good connoisseur with a bit understanding of music and films can easily make out for which actor Rafi is singing….This is quite striking, particularly in case of Rajendra Kumar, Shammi Kapoor, and Rishi Kapoor. When Rafi sings “Teri bindiya reâ€, it surprisingly brings Amitabh Bachan in mind. The challenge of the singer in this aspect is so big. When Rafi sings for a new actor, as in the case of “Mein ek raja hoonâ€, he sounds totally different. However, it is very difficult to reach perfection in this aspect, for the singer has one voice and also many times the actors’ styles resemble. Another problem is with certain actors who are so “plain†with no characteristic features e.g. Biswajeet and Joy Mukerjee. Even for them Rafi adapted his voice…..please listen to “Bade miya deewaneâ€. During my boyhood, I used to wonder upon whom “gulabi aankehin†might have been picturized. I really could not make out; until I found that it was Rajesh Khanna, for Rafi really was different (this is the first song I had heard, which Rafi sang for RK).
Dear Shankar,
You are right many where from music families perhaps not all. Rafi was from a family of Babers. Initailly had a face a lot opposition from his father to pursue a career in singing. Later with support of his elder brother he seeked training under Ustads and Pandits. He sang in chors initailly in mid 40s for many songs under Naushad during K L Saigal era. Then Naushad use to give him 1 or 2 lines to sing along with K L Saigal and Noorjahan. Naushad made him toil for each and everysong of Baiju Bawara 1951.
Mahendra Kapoor was from a business family but had support from his
family. He was brought up in Bombay and studied in St Xaveirs college.
Sanskrit was one of his subjects which help him to sing tunes of Mahabharat.
Naushad was kicked out from his house along with his harmonium. Naushad sacrified his family and stayed on streets of Bombay for several years. He learned music under various Ustads and use to repair harmoniums for a living. Music was so disliked in his house that he had to declared himself as a tailor during his engagement. Surprising his own songs were played during his marriage. (Ref – Naushads Interview)
S D Burman was from the Royal family of Tripura. He sacrifried ever
thing for the love of Music because his family never approved . Perhaps
his sacrifice never went in vain, he ruled the masses perhaps not as
King of Tripura but as a King of Music. His every composition has a
Royal Touch.
Laxmikant was from a poor family, he used to play mandolin for many established music composers for a living. Pyarellel was from a muic and rich family background.
Madan Mohan was in Army and later joined all India Radio, Lucknow.
Before joined films seeked training under Ustad Fayyaz Khan & Ustad
Akbar Ali Khan. Possibly one can imagine what made him a great Ghazal &
patriotic songs Composer. The song “Kar Chale Hum Phidaa’ sang by Rafi
enlightens the spirit and makes us feel proud to be an Indian. Perhaps
his tunes continue to hunt even today after 30 years of his deathin the
film Veer-Zaara.
There are many more like that.
Most of songs sang in films are not pure classical but based on
classical. Pt Bhimsen Joshi & Ustad Bade Gulam Khan fall in a total
different category altogether. Infact Manna Dey also doesn’t fall in
that category. Perhaps ‘O Duniya Ke Rakhawale’ he would sing better than
Rafi as far as the classical part is concern, but in the Taar Saptak
when Rafi sings Rakhawale in 5 different notes this is where most
singers fail. Perhaps it will not be a cake walk for Manna Dey also.
But Mahendra Kapoor matches that, but will fail on the classical part.
Therefore the equation is Manna Dey + Mahendra Kapoor = Mohd Rafi.
Regarding the song “main hoon jhumroo†possibly you are emphasising on
the speed. In the song ‘Madhuban Mein Nache Re’ in the last antraa Rafi
sings with full speed with proper sware and Taal. The same can be said
the song ‘Lagaa Chunri Main Daag’ in the end the ways Manna Dey sings.
Speed as such is never a issue for singers like Rafi & Manna Dey. There
is duet which both have sang “Taqat Watan Ke Hum Se Hai” in Prem
Pujari. Its more like a marathon. I wonder why SD Burman didn’t use KK
for this when he used him for most of the songs for Prem Pujari.
Compared to the song “matwaale hum, matwaale tum†which you are emphasing I find “Hawaon Pe Likh Ko” & “Choti Se Ye Duniya” far more
facinating and better sung.
Dear Avi,
Seeing your comments I feel even KK himself would have felt very bad. Forget Rafi you can’t even understand KK very well, its really a pity.
I have been a Rafi fan for almost more than 2 decades, but I have a personal collection of KK as well, which I love listen again and again.
KK with SD Burman – The early songs 50s & 60s “Javan Ke Safar Mein Rahi”, “Dhuki Mann Mere”, “Manna Janaab”, “Ek Ladke Bhighi”, “Hum Hai Rahi Pyaar Ke”, “Ankhon Ne Kya Di”, “Chod Do Anchal” are my all time favourites.
In the late 60s “Gataa Mera Dil”, “Ye Dil Na Hota”, “Mere Sapno Ki Raani”. Early 70s – “Khilte Hai Gul Hayan”, Lata sings the songs at higher scale, but I like KK for the enthusiasum which he puts. “Pholoon Ke Raag Se” – I like the constant rythm & scale which KK maintains. “Dil Aaj Shayar Hi” – One of KKs most lively songs. “Badi Suni Suni Hai”.
KK with SJ – “Mann Ki Kaali”, “Choti Se Ye Dhuniya”. In early 70s “Zindigi Ek Safar Hai”. This was added in the later in the film which was instrumental in the films success. The film is Andaaz which launched Ramesh Sippy’s career. Here KK’s Yoodling looks effective with the song.
KK with KA – “Zindagi Ka Safar” one of KKs best works. “Pal Pal Dil Ke Paar” – KK sings slow Solo beautifully. “Mera Jivan Kora Kajaz”. “Salaame EshK Meri Jaan” – KK makes a late entry and dominates Lata here. Amitabh does a remarkable work on screen.
KK with RD – “Ek Ajnaabe Hasina Se” – a song which I personally love to sing. “Diwana Lake Aaya Hai” – KK sings the antara and returns to the Sthai Superbly. “Mera Hasini Kahan Udchali” – This is a song for someone you love. “Es Mode Pe Jaate” – Though Lata domanites the song both KK is no less. “Karwaten Badlte Rahe” – This song takes me to a different world. “Aane Wala Pal”.
Most of the above mentioned songs are quiet straight forward. But it is LP and Rajesh Roshan who give KK a different direction. LP put KK to test on the higher scale.
Mere Dil Aaj Kya Hai – KK sings with many twist and turns.
Hum Aur Tum – Beautifull Hounting Duet.
Sunja Aa Thandi Hawa – Nice catchy duet
Aap Ke Anuroodh Pe – KK sings at higher scale quiet well
Aate Jate Khub Surat – Nice Catchy Solo from KK
Jab Dard Nahi Tha – A Sad solo by KK at higher scale
Gadi Bulaa Rahi Hai – There is a line “Aate hai loog Jaate Hai loog”. KK sings the line slowly with great zeal and gradually catches speed. It’s like a train leaving the station and finally catches speed. The rythmn of Steam Engine in the song too good. There is a similar song by RD with train rythmn – “Hum Dono Do Preme” is also good. But earlier one better.
Ruk Jaana Nahi – This songs conveys KK own struggle and also has been a personal inspiration to me in real life.
Ye Jivan Hai – KK sings the number with great sensitivity.
KK with Rajesh Roshan
Aa Ree Aa Ja Nindia Tu Le – KK’s sad solo makes me emotional. Mehmood being a commedian provides a super performence.
Dil Kya Kare – KK sings the solo beautifully & varies the rythmn superbly.
Title song of Des Parde – KK sings the title song with great varition switches scale superbly.
Nazrana Bheja Kisi Ne Pyar – Another example of KK’s varition.
Thoda Hai Thode Ki Jarurat – KK sings with great refineness
Bhaton Bhaton mein Pyar – The duet with Asha is mind blowing
Chu Kar Mere Mann Ko – Another master performence
KK with full Power and Throttle
O Majhi Re – KK sings the song at high scale quiet well.
Mere Naina – Compared to Lata KK applies too much force, but still well sang.
Ek Hasina Thi – Another song which KK sings at higher scale with lot of varition and clarity of thought. Perhaps KK’s best performance at higher scale under LP. The other songs are composed by RD and are more straight at high scale.
These were songs sang by KK in the late 70s. KK’s voice cannot be pushed further higher. This has been a limitation of KK, there fore he had to do a lot of experimentation in the middle scale in 60s, 70s to make it look more effective. This is your claim for which you are trying prove the KK is the greatest. But because of his limitation to operate at high range never provided him work from renowed music composers in 50s & 60s, and above all why would music composers compromise on that factor. Please think over it.
Compared to RD it was LP and Rajesh Roshan who brought more varition to KK’s voice. Later Bappi Lahiri did compose few goods songs for KK in late 70s & 80s. 80s did see many good scores from KK but not like the ones he delivered in the 70s.
People who understand Rafi very well for them understanding any other singer is no big deal.
Note – There are many more KK songs which I have not coverd.
Daer Avi U r right about bit but it was between Mohd Rafi and Asha for song “AAJA AAJA MAIN HU PYAAr TERA”it was like that Who will say AAJA AAJA more time he or she will be loser,Asha said that many time,also she said that she knew that MOhd Rafi going win because Mohd Rafi said to Asha the winner will pay 500 Rs to the loser and Mohd Rafi won and he paid 500 Rs She said many time that no one can Win Mohd Rafi.
Never one said that this song “AAJA AAJA MAIN HU PYAAr TERA was not easy for Mohd Rafi but Asha by herself said she worked so hard 2 sing this song.
Dear Avi u said that who sing more he is better not me!!!!!that good that u said that Mohd Rafi with Lata are better than KK with Lata,O.P.Nayar said that Mohd Rafi with Asha better than mohd Rafi with Lata for type of music which he(O.P.Nayar)give.
My dear freinds Mr Shankar & Mr . Avi
I have read all the articles of yours , I agree that KK is a good singer , We are dyeing fan of Rafi sahab we are also saying that KK was a good singer , we like his song very much , But as compare to Rafi sahab , No one can touch that golden voice which Rafi sahab has.
Once I went to see a programme of Rafi Sahab at Shanmukanda hall , Bombay In that show , Amit Kumar (Son of Kishore Kumar) was there to sing a song , Amit Kumar sad my father KK was also a big fan of Rafi sahab .
We think all the singers are great , but Rafi sahab was greatest amongst all. no doubt.
G.M Ansari’s
Mohd Rafi Group , Bombay
G .M Ansari : 9833484837
Rashid Khan : 9869030908
Dear Referee, Keep ur decision with you.
There is not a single percent truth. You are like umpire JAYPRAKASH who raise his finger without knowing the ball pitch.
Rafi fans always think in one direction and trying to get away from the history.
FYI, IT was KISHORE who dared to compose music for his own film to prove everybody wrong and that has been already proved.
I asked one question to all rafi fans:
Is there any kind of innovation done by Rafi in SINGING field or any field.
Dear Unknown,
May be rafi sang 1000 songs with ASHA but ask anyone who is the best. They will say KISHORE-ASHA is always best. They have sung many remarkabale songs.
RDB said in TV interview that ASHA sang better than RAFI in “AAJA AAJA MAIN HU PYAAr TERA”. There was bet between RDB n Nassir Hussain on who will sing better. RDB said ASHA n Nassir said “RAFI” n finally Nassir gave some cash to RDB after losing this bet.
This has been said by Nassir Hussain and RDB in CNN IBN.
No one can beat KISHORE……..
Dear mohd Rafi fans,
Why should we answer to people like Avi and Shankar who don’t know anythink about Mohd Rafi and KK, What 2 say about some one who said KK with Asha better than Mohd Rafi with Asha!!!!!!!??As they said KK singed more songs in 70’s than Mohd Rafi because of that KK is better If they think by this way Why not they think that Mohd Rafi with Asha they singed around 700 songs and there no one who singed 700 songs togetter.
Who know about Mohd Rafi and KK He or she never say that Mohd Rafi was workless or KK is better SINGER than Mohd Rafi !!!!!
IF U BEAT A CHILD THEY WILL SAY U R BIG MAN AND YOU BEAT A CHILD !! IF CHILD BEAT YOU THEY WILL SAY U R BIG MAN A CHILD BEAT YOU!!!
Thanks mohanflora,Nair,Shanbu,Ali,Anmol Singh and many more for giving us great information about KK more than KK fans.
I like all good songs but when we compare I think we should take 2 names out to comparing(mohd Rafi and Lata)because who will be with Mohd Rafi and Lata they will be winners.
Rafisaab was not born into a family having musical background. He developed a liking for music listening to his village minstrels and fakirs and later honed his skills. Please read the the web thread,”The mammoth myth about Mohammed Rafi,” as provided above by anon. Great!
dear anmol,
thanks for ur version of kk’s early life and struggles. u r right that kk never could learn classical singing. but there is a reason for that.
rafi, lata, asha, manna dey and others were all born into families that had a musical background. lata’s and asha’s own father was himself a classical singer and so trained them when they were young. rafi learnt classical singing from his uncle/relative when he was as young as 14 yrs. manna dey learnt classical singing from his famous uncle when he was 21 yrs old, for 6 yrs. he mentioned that he had to practice for 6 hrs a day for a few yrs. kk, however, was born into a normal family with a normal background, like the common man. how much % of common man learn classical singing ? very small. yet, through his natural talent, he was a competent singer by his own rights.
most of the rafi fans and the public also think that kk’s singing career started off with films like “munimji”, “paying guest”, “chalti ka naam gaadi” etc. under s.d.burman. but most people forget that kk first sang in the film “ziddi” in 1948 for khemchand prakash. if u listen to that song “marne ki duaen kyon maangoon”, u’ll see how well he sang in madra saptak, with such control, even though he was just turned 19 yrs old. how many of u have heard the song “husna bhi hai udas” from “fareb” in 1953 ? if u’ll hear the song, u’ll be surprised how softly he sang. u’ll think it’s talat singing. similarly, the kk-lata duet “aa mohabbat ki basti” also from “fareb” ? how many of u have heard the song “jag mag jag mag karta nikla” ?
all of the above songs are sung immensely well in madra saptak. and the music director’s for these films were stalwarts like khemchand prakash, anil biswas, husnlal-bhagatram etc. if u listen to these songs, u’ll never say he didn’t have range.
also, very well trained hindustani classical singers like pandit bhimsen joshi, ustaad bade ghulam ali khan etc. can all sing “o duniya ke rakhwaale” or “madhuban mein radhika” etc., but they cannot make all those inimitable sounds in songs like “main hoon jhumroo”, “matwaale hum, matwaale tum” etc. kk made those inimitable sounds in perfect sur and taal to maintain the tempo of the songs. that’s why kk is unique, one of a kind.
Here is an interesting article “The mammoth myth about Mohammed Rafi”
http://www.screenindia.com/20020726/mcov2.html
OK, let us try to resolve this issue in a non biased manner. Rafi was an extraodinary talented and gifted singer. A man like Rafi is never likely to be born. His songs are gems, which can never be duplicated. Kk was a happy go lucky guy. I think he sang well singing the comedy songs. I really don’t think he could sing any of Rafi’s songs that had a high and low range variation. If you look at all the same songs sung by Lata and Rafi, such as Jab Pyar Kisi say Hota Hai, Ehsan tera hoga, Mere Mehboob Mujhey, and others, the songs sung by Rafi were far more popular, showing how great a singer Rafi is. Kishore is OK, but not great.
To the question, why did not Rafi sing the songs sung by other singers. This is somewhat illogical, yet it is a question. So the answer is; Rafi did not sing the songs sung by other singers because it was sung by them. However, one must note that there was a period when Talat, Mukesh, Hemant Kumar, and Mannadey together ruled the music world. Rafi was just one among them. After Baiju Bawara, it was the rise of Sun for the music world, which outshone the minor flickering stars. By early 60s, the brightness of Rafi was at such level that Hemant Kumar and Talat Mehmood virtually saw the death of their singing career, Mukesh could never regain his posture, although he managed a few awards during KKs dominance, and Mannadey has to cuckoon himself to classical numbers. The dominance of Rafi could not be compared to KK’s one, where Rafi also made his presence felt, although in a lesser degree relative to 60s. However, unlike Mukesh, Mannadey et al., Rafi made a grand come back……a powerful one…..remember the song….. “Hei agar dushman zamaana, gam nahin, koi aaye koi, hum kisi se kam nahinâ€. It was as if destiny had kept this song for Rafi in store.
I agree with Fedup too…Kishore makes me feel like throwing up. I have nothing against Kishore as a person, but I think that he was just a very low-class singer who got lucky after 25 years of trying. RDB & RK played a big hand in his change of fortune, when for 25 years almost all MDs knew that he wasn’t really cut out for singing. He had a loud voice, and had an extremely limited range as a singer. Plus, his constipated, laborious singing in an extremely nasal and bad voice makes it even harder to appreciate his work. His work just sounds too immature, unprofessional, insignificant and extremely cheap compared to Rafi, and even compared to other singers. Classical training or not, Kishore just wasn’t cut out to be a singer, and the fact that he became successful is only a testimony to his strong character that he tried hard against all odds to become at least an average singer, albeit with millions of weaknesses.
I completely agree with Fedup. Kishore was no match for Rafi. To all who say Rafi was jobless in the early and mid seventees, then I must say Kishore was jobless from the late forties till 1970 (20 years!!) ,as he had very few songs to his credit during this time, forcing him to make a few B grade films. Also during the time Rafi was alive, Rafi won 6 filmfare awards to KK’s 1. Now who is greater?
Asif
Kishore is not in the same class as Rafi. All Kishore did was to yodel like a silly person and you KK supporters think that is class. KL Saigal would turn in his grave to watch Kishore disgrace the art of singing. Kishore success in the seventees was because the MDs made tunes to suit a culture of loud music, beat, and cheap lyrics, where the singer’s voice or qualty did not matter. Kishore actually ruined the art of music by his silly antics and constapated singing style. He was absolutely horrible and makes me throw up!!
dear Anmol Singh and Nair good work.
Dear Avi
The people who know about music said please dear AVI read it and be honest 10% only
Mohd Rafi
MOHAMMED RAFI the paragon of humility, greatness and piety, all put together. A voice that left a landmark in the world of music. A stalwart who was unparalleled be it his style of singing, or the varying emotions he portrayed in the songs that suited every actor that he play backed for. 26 years have passed by and the reverberation of his voice or his songs continue like the waves that hit the seashore leaving behind a trail of finest silt of impressions in our hearts.
About KK
The Everlasting Voice still reverberating.. leaving beautiful ripples and memories that last with us forever. A powerhouse of talent in multitude.. be it singing, acting, composing or writing beautiful lyrics….Kishoreda continues to live in his reverberating voice.
Dear Avi,
If u see shammi Kapoor films and KK I think same style they have but only better in Shammi the Mohd Rafi voice,
Dear Avi As u said “Anmol is not music lover but he is definetely KISHORE hater” I don’t think so because when we read about KK there is RD,Rajesh Khanna,Bachchan and they are super stars, It same when u have a Football team all players are good but one is not in this case there be team work help it same worked with KK,KK became because of team work and Mohd Rafi is great because he is Mohd Rafi not team work helped him as KK.Sorry dear Avi if i hurt u.
dear avi,
I think anmol bhai knows kk very well by reading his articales and he is still a rafifan why?
dont tell u also know rafi as he knows kk,bcos these songs u r mentionig every time that rafi could not sing,will never said by ppl who knows rafi.
Dear Nair,
Anmol is not music lover but he is definetely KISHORE hater. I can understand it because Rafi fans have to justify everytime why Rafi is great.
According to him, Everybody is greater than KISHORE. He should really need a doctor treatment.
WHY SJ, O P NAYYAR, RAVI n other mentioned MDs did not give chance to KISHORE because they were scared of taking chance. They could only give songs to trained singer. It shows all MDs incapability not KISHORE incapability. BUt ultimately they bent in front of KISHORE in 70’s. I am not going to mention movie name.
dear Anmol. if
Dear Anmol, If u r a singer then i am sure u r attempting Rafi’s song. Pls. attempt a single KISHORE songs n ask somebody else to listen, i m sure u will be royally get screwed.
Boss, There are many people who watch PADOSAN, just to see KISHORE n his Mandali. Half Ticket adn CHALATI KA NAAM GAADI which is hall of fame in indian comedy cinema.
To be very frank, Kishore is only singer who touches the heart.
Tell me one thing
How many innovation Rafi has done in singing? Nothing because he could not able to do it.
See KISHORE, He came with Yoodling when so many SURMAS were there in this field n left everybody behind and made bother to many Rafi fans.
It was his idea to wear PADOSAN getup and to remain in the competition Mehmood had also chnaged his getup.
Dear Anmol, don’t write the same thing again and again.
Pls. answer me n ask any Rafi fans to imitate KISHORE as in
1. NA KOI DIl ME SAMAYA
2. KOI HUMDUM NA RAHA
I am very sorry for you.
Nice work Anmol. Only a person who understands the layers of music can write such a piece. Well done!
Dear Shankar,
Lets leave Rafi aside, I will analyze KK with other singers now one by one.
KK came to Bombay to become singer we no formal training. Its very surprising considering K L Saigal as his idol, KK never felt the need of any formal training in music. In 1940s and 50s training was considered a must for every singer. Lets leave classical singing aside.
Perhaps the reason KK failed as a singer in the early 50s, where as singers like Mukesh and Hemant Kumar excelled. Both were not classical singers but were properly trained as compared to KK.
Note – There is no knowledge on who were Mukesh’s Gurus. But most web sites on Mukesh do not mention that he had NO FORMAL TRAINING IN MUISC the way it is mentioned on KK websites.
Since KK was a failure in early 50s as a singer, he was forced to act by Ashok Kumar (Dada Muni). He failed as a serious actor as well, because there were Dilip & Bharat Bhushan in the league. Finally compelled to adopt some thing which other singers do not do i.e. ‘yoodling’ and act as a comic actor for survival. This was the result that KK had to do all this
because of lack of training. This so called quality did not last long in the 60s. Please refer to KK’s lean years in 60s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kishore_Kumar
Lets analyze KK with Hemant Kumar. Hemant studied under Phani Banerjee and Shailesh Duttagupta. Unlike KK Hemant Kumar had a
very limit range of operation i.e. low and Medium. C Ramchander is one who composed “Enaa Meena Dekha” for KK choose Hemant for Anarkali “Jaag Dard E Ishq’. SD Burman choose Hemant for Dev Anand to sing “Na Hum Tumhe Jaane”, “Ye Raat Ye Chandni”, “Chup Hai Dharti”. SJ choose him for “Yaad Kiya Dil Ne Kahan”. Why not KK for these songs? Because Hemant at low and medium range was just mind blowing and he gave play back to many actors. Apart from that Hemant Kumar was great composer as well. Singers like Rafi & Lata sang for his compositions. This is different between trained and untrained singer. If KK was a properly trained singer many Hemant songs could have gone to him considering his range of opertaion.
Lets analyze Mukesh with KK. O P Nayyar a Rafi loyalist choose Mukesh “Chal Akela Chal Akela”. Why not Kishore? Because apart
from Rafi it was Mukesh who could operate with ease in the Taar (High) Saptak. Another example is the song ‘Jane Kahaan Gaye Yo Din’ composed by SJ. These are songs beyond KK’s capability to sing. Mukesh was Salil Chaudhary’s favourite singer. Salil refused to listen to KK in the 50s and 60s. As most claim that early 70s for KK dominated by it was Mukesh who maximum wards between 1970 and 76 with much less contribution as compared to KK. Mukesh did this without singing for Rajesh Khanna. Its just a class of an aligance.
1970 Filmfare Sabse Bada Nadan Wahi Hai Pehchan Playback for Manoj Kumar
1972 Filmfare Jai Bolo Beiman Ki Jai Bolo Be-Imaan Playback for Manoj Kumar
1974 National Award Kai Baar Yun Bhi Dekha Rajni Gandha Background Song
1976 Filmfare Kabhi Kabhee Mere Dil Mein Kabhi Kabhee Playback for Amitabh
Lets analyze Mahendra Kapoor with KK. Mahendra Kapoor considered Rafi as is idol, and approached him when he was a teenager. Rafi advised not to immitate him and seek proper training. Why KK never felt the need of training when he was a teenager? Mahendra Kapoor’s classical vocal mentors were Pt. Husn Lal, Ustad Niaz Ahmed Khan, Pt. Jagannath Bua Purohit, Khan Saheb Abdur Rehman, Afzal Husain Khan and Pt. Tulsidas Sharma. His first song ‘Chand chhupa aur tare doobe’ under Naushad in 1958 was a big hit. Apart from Rafi he was favourate singer of O P Nayyar and Ravi. Mahendra sang limited songs compared to other singers because he was selective. Song like “Mere Desh ki Dharti”, “Chalo Ek Baar”, “Neele Gagan Ke Tale” are beyond KK’s scale. Mahendra Kapoor won an award in 1965, 1967 during the Rafi & Mukesh dominance and in 1974 during KK’s dominance.
1963 Gumrah Chalo Ek Bar
1967 Hamraz Neele Gagan Ke Tale
1974 Roti Kapda Aur Makaan Aur Nahi Bus Aur Nahi
Lets analyze Manna Dey with KK. Possibly it would be a disgrace to compare KK with Manna Dey. He won an award in 1971 during Kishore’s dominance.
Another singer Narendra Chanchal know for devotional songs won an award in 1973 during Kishore’s dominence.
Lets analyze Talat to KK. There is not need to analyze since Talat came much before KK. Talat as a matter of fact was also a trained singer and specialzed in Ghazals. Most Ghazals singers of today consider him their idol.
http://www.rediff.com/entertai/1998/may/16tal.htm
Coming back to KK, he entered the film industry to become a singer with out training. By late 50s he gets S D Burman as his Guru. He matured as a singer only by late 60s and 70s because of proper training under Dada Burman, which brought control & clarity in his voice and also improved his range of operation. “Roop Tera Mastana” did fetch him an award in 1969, but he never got any award during his prime period until 1978. In the 80s he got maximum awards since he was competing with new comers and untrained singers like Shabbir Kumar & Munna Aziz. With no Rafi, Mukesh & Mahendra Kapoor Manna Dey refusing to sing sub standard songs KK undoubtly was the best.
In order words there is no alternate to hard work and proper training. If we analyze Mahendra Kapoor between 1946 to 1958 it took almost 12 years for him to establish as a singer. It took almost the same time for KK to gain perfection under Dada. Because KK was talented Dada choose him to train. Perhaps his Yoodling, mimickry & comic acting put him into finicial
crisices in the 60s and he had wait till 1969 to established himself as proper play back singer when he gained perfection. Possibly if Kishore was a properly trained singer before coming to film industry there could have been no need for him to do all the mimckry and yoodlying. Infact Talat and Mukesh also acted in films but were successfull only as singers. As mentioned by Rafi in his interviews a person should be perfect in one area at least.
The song from Baiju Bawra “Mann Tadpat Hari Darshan” has a line “Bin Guru Gyan Kahan Se Paaun” is very much applicable for any successfull singer & music composer.
Coming to you analysis now
“i mean, a very well trained hindustani classical singer can sing “Oh duniya ke rakhwaale …†but even the most classically trained singer cannot sing “mein hoon jhumroo …â€. and that’s the greatness of kk.”
A classical trained singer can sing any type of song. Asha Bhonsle is a good example of that. The same can be said for classical dance also. Helen apart from cabry is also a great Bharat Natayam dancer.
Reasons I have explined above for what made KK do all such funny things and finally were he landed. These are analysis of actual facts from KK websites.
“O Duniya a RaKhwaale” has been attempted by many classical singer and many have failed to reach that level. Infact it took Rafi 28 days of practice to reached Naushad’s expectation initially. Later in 70s he sang with far more perfection and ease at Doordarshan. In a live concert at Royal Elbert Hall, London he sings the line “Mahal Udaas Aur Galian Suni” from the same song in 10 different ways.
“mein hoon jhumroo …†KK’s greatness!, it never establised him as a singer as such.
“matwaale hum, matwaale tum†– in the antara at high pitch KK replaces it with Yoodling. It is drawback not a quality.
Even if KK was a spontaneous Singer it never at all gave him recognition for that. It was only his hard work and perfection which paid him later. Thanks to Dada and elder brother Dada Munni.
Probably that there is a kind of simplicity in KK’s songs. Those are tailored in such a way that it flexes easily for an untrained singer. I am not a singer, although I try to grasp the conceptual part of music, however, when I try to hum a few lines, Kishore Kumar songs are easy for me. Public might have liked this aspect of music that was widespread in the early 1970s, whereas, songs given to Manndey, Rafi, Mukesh, and Mahendra Kapoor have a strong base on the scientific part of music. This does not mean that songs sung by Kishore are not based on ragas; all songs are based on one or another raga. But the intensity of those is more in Rafi’s like songs. The songs like koi hum dum na raha are so simple that it flexes before anyone who has an aptitude for music. This does not mean that anyone can become KK. I am just referring to the simplicity of songs
Daer Avi,
Thanks for information about Indian Football team,now I understant why they are not good in Football because they play cricket in the place of football!!!!I think u r Football team will win cricket world.
Jest I was looking Film called Garam Masala MD was RD(70,s Film)but there is no kk songs there was only MOhd Rafi and Ash?!!!!Is it mean that u r famous KK was busy or in the film there was small stars or kk only want sing for super stars as Rajesh khanna and Mr Bachchan?!!!.
I hope u Know Ravi(MD)KK singed many songs under Ravi,Do u know what Ravi said about u r point that Mohd Rafi can’t singed KK songs?!!!!
would u please tell us u r age?
Dear Avi,
If you really want to talk about being famous, you should know that Rafi is more famous than your Kishore across the world. As some other people have already pointed out in this forum, there has been a statistically done that proved that Rafi is the most played and requested voice on radio. So, Rafi is/was not only much superior to Kishore, but also more famous & popular.
You must be seriously deluded to think that Rafi couldn’t have sung the 3 Kishore songs that you have mentioned. Koi Humdum Na Raha etc. will be cakewalks for a singer like Rafi. Rafi could sing at any pace, any scale, and any octave unlike your extremly limited and poor Kishore. Just listen to all the songs that Rafi has left behind and you will know Rafi’s range.
Avi, you are fighting a losing battle. You can go ahead and have XYZ as your favourite, but it’s crystal clear and so black-and-white that Kishore is nothing in front of Rafi as a singer. It’s not even a fair competition!!
dear avi,
famous is always the best and thats why he is faomous. You will accept this if RAFI is famous but get constipation if KISHORE get famous.
Pls. answer why not any other singers stood in front of RAFI except KISHORE. There were many “TEES MAAR KHAN”. After 69, KISHORE not only become famous but pull Rafi’s fame down.
You people can’t change that. Tell me after KISHORE and RAFI who else stood as tall as both. We’ve accepted that but you people have some problem in acepting that.
dear ALI,
Pls. listen one song sung by KISHORE-LATA from unreleased movie, “MOUSAM MASTANA HAI” fantastic/Superb.
As i said honestly in my prev. mail, i can’t differentiate between RAFI-LATA and KISHORE-LATA but my dear friend tell me abt KISHORE-ASHA and RAFI-ASHA.
It will keep ur mouth shut. There are 100+ fabulous songs sung by them but not same in the case of RAFI.
Dear ALI, U r changing track by statihng Football n Cricket. This is old jumla and its doesn’t fit here.
CAN RAFI SANG:
1. NA KOI DIL ME SAMAYA
2. KOI HUMDUm NA RAHA
3. TUNE ABHI DEKHA NAHI DEKHA HAI TO JAANA NAHI
No my dear friend, Rafi would have fainted (u people r forcing me to write).
But tell me single Rafi song which could not have been sung by any singer.
Dear Ali, we definetely ask football team to practice cricket so that they can be master in both and win both.
Dear Avi and Shankar,
As u said many times that songs which singed by Mohd Rafi any SINGER can sing that song but which songs singed by kk no one can sing that songs Dear Avi and Shankar do u know Why?!! because if u take ur Indian Football team to win Cricket world,I hope u understant what I mean.
Dear Avi and Shankar I think u know that what is famous should not be the best al time,As u said that which songs singed by M Rafi or Lata are less famous as KK,dear please listen these songs again and say by honestly if u know about Music who singed these songs best way M Rafi and Lata or u KK???!!!!!!!!!
dear anonymous, finally u get the point i was trying to make. it’s ok to praise rafi, since he is one of the greatest playback singers in india ever, but it’s also important to realize that other singers have their own talents.
dear none, ur idea is correct but translation is wrong. comparing rafi to kishore is like comparing filtered water to spring water.
one is purified by constant filteration and method (rafi) while the other is free-flowing and naturally pure (kishore).
Comparing Rafi to Kishore is liking comparing diamond to charcoal.Both are singers, just like diamond and charcoal come from the same oar. But the difference is huge. Rafi is a diamond, and Kishore, well you should now know the answer.
Hei freind,
None of us are denying the versatality of KK. I myself wrote a paraody about the greatness of both singers. We are all unnecessarily debating, whereas we all accept and respect both the legends. Sorry, if the words I used to qualify KK’s songs offended you!