True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
hansji!
wah wah wah wah wah wah, muqarrar
haye kishorefan
first kk, then gs, then saigal. kya irada hai.
is par chacha ghalib ka ek sher suno
ek se dil na bhara to auron ke kiye kya hoga,
ganimat isi men hai ke bazaar se ab uth jao.
Hans ji. post 3039.
——————-
Your valued comments are really an ocean of knowledge for the readers, & it is also worth noticing that fans of both the singers comparing, theirs with rafi sahab seems not that learned, educated, & informative. most of their discussions are illogical, biased, full of fabricated stories. people must have noticed that i have never been involved in this discussion. before this, i never commented on this ‘war of the word’. but now i am literally fed up with the stuff, they are penning down here. rafi sahab is simply the best, there is no question about that fact, & obviously, facts are facts. i am here because i want to know more and more about the love of my life, the singer of my dreams, rafi sahab. i do not need to know who mr ghantasala was & how good was he, or even kishore kumar, or any other singer, for instance. the voice of mohd rafi sahab is enough for me to pour all the melody & sweetness in my life. i simply do not like any other voice.
its also great that people like your kind-self, are bashing away those worthless & totally illogical comments, keep it up, they ran away before & shall always suffer humiliating defeats after defeats. their destiny has been written as such.furthermore, thanks for honoring my questions with your valued comments, ill be definitely seeking your help for my thesis, as i have found you extremely knowledgeable in general and about rafi sahab, in particular. i loved the songs you mentioned and loved these thoroughly.
in order to have a full flavor of rafi’s voice sweeteness, i think the ‘heer’ he has sung, probably in mera naam jokar, is the best example. hansji! i have posed another query and looking forward to you for your valuable and enriched comments on that also. please keep on praying for my bright future,
with very best regards,
maha devika
Chichore kumar ke fans ko kab aqal aayegi? waqqai afasoos ki baat. bechare kab tak pagalon ki tarah badbadate rahange……. yeh khud bhi nahin jaante
one thing more, had there been no amitabh bachan & rajesh khanna, there would have been no “ki-shor?-kumar”
kishorefan 3044.
so you don’t want to go to your “barren-site”
your words regarding rafi sahab is glittering with the utmost-jealousy from the best singer of indi, rafi sahab,
keep on burning your souls in jealousy and inferiority complex, saigal was very much there when rafi took over, it is a known fact that rafi ruled from mid 40’s to 80 till his death, because most beautiful songs were sung by rafi even in 70’s. your “shor-kumar” was not even worth of at least 1 film-fare award. that is his worth. as except rd burman, nobody considered him a singer, the fact “shor” himself accepted in his last interview with lata mangeshkar.
you just keep on humming, the pathetic yudliyooooooooooooooo
Hai rafi fans,
It was unfortunate that saigal passed away at early age – if we was there, singer by name rafi would not have been there in bollywood – this fact rafi fans know very well. Saigal had created a huge influence with so called only 185 songs in his career and who is continued to be respected to this very day, – and rafi’s influence with so many thousand songs does not stand anywhere near saigal.
It is surprising. My posts 2993 and 2999 is still under moderation while many later posts have appeared.
Request to moderator to look into it. If posts do not appear at the appropriate time the whole purpose goes in vain.
It is not important that who i like should be the best but when I like to compare who I like to some one better than who I like I should be honest.
Number of votes which mohd rafi got that also show his greatness also the best 20 songs of bollywood for all time…
Thanks visiting mohd rafi site that show how mohd rafi is great even kishore da fans they visit mohd rafi site more than kishore da,I don’t like to compare because I have got no name to be compare with mohd rafi,it is like some one say at mid night it is day time now and my answer will be yes but in USA.please be honest please please please…….
kishorefan – 3019
“he is searching some 5 year back posts”
how you know they are 5 year old posts.
ha..ha..ha you also went in search of the numbers i provided. i am loving it. i will not only take care of this gs but i will also destroy all kk questions you or others are posting. if you want to keep the honour of kk and gs intact, the best option is to run away.
varna….saari hawa nikaal doonga.
wait and watch for my further posts and take good sleep.
maha devika
i wanted to reply earlier but could not as i was busy in gs debate. your penchant for rafi songs and especially older ones is really commendable. you want to write some thesis and for this reading of older posts will be helpful as very knowledgeable rafians contribute in this site.
i give you two old songs which you will find on youtube.
1. kehke bhi na aaye tum, film safar of 1946, md c ramchandra.
2. jin raton men neend ud jati hai, film raat ki rani of 1949, md hansraj behl.
when you will listen to them you will find that both are real gems and particularly the second one is really a very difficult composition. there is minimal orchestra and only rafi’s voice is generating music. you will find that this speciality of rafi was there from the start. you will find that ‘jin raton men’ is not much less than ‘suhani raat dhal chuki’ the eternal gem of ‘dulari’ rafi rendered via naushad.
many if not most people believe that naushad made rafi. but i believe that the substance of rafi was with him from the start. i do not deny that various mds polished his talent.
so far as your question of rafi not getting more songs in the initial period despite having produced such gems is concerned, i think one of the contributing factor was that in those days most of the songs were composed for female singers. only exceptions were influential singer-actors like saigal or ashok. later when the trio of dilip, raj, dev got influential the no of male songs increased. dulari is a shining example where of the 12 songs lata had 7 solos, shamshad 2 solos, 2 lata-rafi duets and only 1 rafi solo. i had given some stats of naushad in the thread ‘mohd rafi- dilip kumar – naushad & shakeel’ in post no 87. you can make further study in this regard yourself if that reason appeals to you.
another reason may be the non-availability of radio in those days. the only source of publicity was print media and they gave importance to only hit films. that was the reason baiju bawra was so important for rafi.
Mr. Zaheendanish and others
Your nonsense posts will not be posted by any moderator, leave this moderator who is a good music lover. Mr. Hans has appeared again carrying out his foolish research only to get more confused – he is searching some 5 year back posts – Ghantasala has created such influence among rafi fans that they are just revolving around him – some by praise and some by criticism – whatever it may be ultimately ghantasala shook these rafi fans – they will never forget this in their life.
3004 – rafi fan1 ji
I have appreciations for your post – we do not have issues with rafi fans who recognise kishore kumar equally. Aapko hamara pranam- please accept that.
Mr. Sandeep Shrivastav,
To know what happend between 1969-76, you need to spend lot of time to read, understand ang grasp the contents which is more or less the finest chapters in the biography of Rafi Sahab. Tell me, if you are ready, then i will provide you links to read and stasify your self. it look like a quiz to you but for us it is a pleasant experience to read and re-read the biography of Rafi Sahab.
moderator ji
Even some of my posts posted yesterday and today still shows ” your comment is awaiting moderation” as such my posts are very much relevant here at this time. Please see what you can do the best to publish my posts.
contd..
now go back to post 449 of this thread. prior to that post a rafi-kk debate was on and after a prolonged exchange of ideas haldarji and anmol singhji had totally silenced the kk fans. at this time suddenly the post no 449 by some vasu appeared.
this followed with other posts in a chain (though smaller) attempting to engage rafi fans in gs vs rafi debate.
one vasu came in without any rhme or reason. he was followed by some siri and he by rehman and then by some ram and then followed murthy. this was a chain from 449 to 456, only interrupted by binuji by his post at 454.
after this the strategy has continued it is kk followed by gs followed by kk and so on. all anti-rafi brigade functions in conjunction. when one is in a tight corner the discussion is diverted to the other. i think this anti-rafi team is the same. they are neither fans of gs nor of kk.
raj (i will call all of you by the names you have taken in this thread) – 2702 and 2703
do you think i will be taken in by these gimmicks of yours. i know what the anti-rafi brigade has been doing and i will be exposing all of your scheming and strategies by the by. you should have estimated from my posts that i am well prepared and i dont talk in thin air.
you know that even i can post as raj or kishorefan. and some people have already shown that in this thread. so dont try to fool.
you say you are from kk forum, but where is that forum. just buried deep. if you are his fans, you should have cared for that forum instead of defending gs. he is due for more exposure by me as well as other rafians. poor gs he might not have even dreamed that his so called fans will land him in so much trouble. i may tell you that i have read kk forum also when i replied to another kk fan in the other thread in this site and i know there are names like raj, kishorefan and srivastav. but that does not signify anything. i will also be writing on kk.
you have referred to some swami’s posts. how is that connected to what you have done. any individual can post any number of posts in a short period. if you as raj had posted 50 posts in 30 minutes then that would have meant nothing. but, when some different people come in a chain or like relay race people that will certainly be part of some conspiracy.
and another point how did you come to know that swami had posted 20 posts in 30 minutes. they are not in the thread as they have been deleted. and only abhishek, bhushan, chandrasekhar and rafifan 1 were active and raj, kishorfan and srivastav were not active at that time. this also points to the same direction as was suggested in my post 2901.
contd..
rafi is unsurpassed, unparalleled
it is a known fact that salil chowdhury used to feel that manna dey was not given due respect in the hindi film industry. in spite of singing for raj kapoor (in fact most of his hit songs were sung by manna da) it was mukesh who was known as voice of rk. also the group of rafi and naushad were experts in churning out hits, and were at their peak. salil chowdhury has said that he felt that manna de was sidelined as he was a bengali and the music directors felt he would not get the nuances of urdu correctly and so naturally must have felt an animosity towards rafi, but fact remains that just 5 years ago in a concert, manna de said publicly that rafi was the greatest (the video is still there in youtube)
as for rdb, he always felt in awe of rafi as he was the chosen singer for his father sd burman, and when rdb came onto the film scene on his own, he wanted to create a distinct identity rather than being known as a clone of his father, and hence chose kishore kumar who was a close friend of mehmood who was rdb’s closest friend. he also changed most of the orchestration to sound different, and providentially his songs clicked becoz of the change, and kishore kumar had arrived.
nowhere has rdb ever said that kishore kumar was superior to rafi; in fact, i remember rdb’s last interview immediately after 1942 a love story, where he said that kishore kumar was his favorite, but any song that kishore sang, rafi could sing, but not all that rafi sang kishore could, eg. classical.
it is a known fact that salil chowdhury used to feel that manna dey was not given due respect in the hindi film industry. in spite of singing for raj kapoor (in fact most of his hit songs were sung by manna da) it was mukesh who was known as voice of rk. also the group of rafi and naushad were experts in churning out hits, and were at their peak. salil chowdhury has said that he felt that manna de was sidelined as he was a bengali and the music directors felt he would not get the nuances of urdu correctly and so naturally must have felt an animosity towards rafi, but fact remains that just 5 years ago in a concert, manna de said publicly that rafi was the greatest (the video is still there in youtube)
as for rdb, he always felt in awe of rafi as he was the chosen singer for his father sd burman, and when rdb came onto the film scene on his own, he wanted to create a distinct identity rather than being known as a clone of his father, and hence chose kishore kumar who was a close friend of mehmood who was rdb’s closest friend. he also changed most of the orchestration to sound different, and providentially his songs clicked becoz of the change, and kishore kumar had arrived.
nowhere has rdb ever said that kishore kumar was superior to rafi; in fact, i remember rdb’s last interview immediately after 1942 a love story, where he said that kishore kumar was his favorite, but any song that kishore sang, rafi could sing, but not all that rafi sang kishore could, eg. classical.
t is a known fact that salil chowdhury used to feel that manna dey was not given due respect in the hindi film industry. in spite of singing for raj kapoor (in fact most of his hit songs were sung by manna da) it was mukesh who was known as voice of rk. also the group of rafi and naushad were experts in churning out hits, and were at their peak. salil chowdhury has said that he felt that manna de was sidelined as he was a bengali and the music directors felt he would not get the nuances of urdu correctly and so naturally must have felt an animosity towards rafi, but fact remains that just 5 years ago in a concert, manna de said publicly that rafi was the greatest (the vdo is still there in youtube)
as for rdb, he always felt in awe of rafi as he was the chosen singer for his father sd burman, and when rdb came onto the film scene on his own, he wanted to create a distinct identity rather than being known as a clone of his father, and hence chose kishore kumar who was a close friend of mehmood who was rdb’s closest friend. he also changed most of the orchestration to sound different, and providentially his songs clicked becoz of the change, and kishore kumar had arrived.
nowhere has rdb ever said that kishore kumar was superior to rafi; in fact, i remember rdb’s last interview immediately after 1942 a love story, where he said that kishore kumar was his favorite, but any song that kishore sang, rafi could sing, but not all that rafi sang kishore could, eg. classical.
well said zeheen, you are actually,”zaheen” & have lot of “Danish”. both of these grouped together can not defeat rafians. in fact, sala & shor, even together are much smaller and kids in front of the musical giant, and the singing sensation rafi sahib
What these kishore fans are doing here, see the KK site is totally barren, even you can not find a fly there.
shoras and salas!
such a jealousy, complex from legendry rafi. yooooooooooodddddddddddddddddddddliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiyouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
raj 3003.
shor kumar will remain a clown wahtever you people say. rafi is the giant of indian music and shor-kumar is a dwarf, rather i kid, hence you better shut up. be jeolus and burn with all your inferiority complex
Sandeepshrivastav post 3003!
From 1969-1976, the golden epoch of hfm, was virtually at and culmination and bad nous for music prevailed. thats where ‘ki-shor’, who had been strugling to acquire some chance for worthy songs came to attention. the religious prejudice towards rafi sahab was too underway.
one of many dissimilarities amongst legendry rafi sahab and ki-shore, was that it was rafi’s huge vocal prowess that boosted the carrier of so many actors for whom he offered his voice, but in divergence the prodigious acting abilities and appealing personalities like amitabh bhachan and rajesh khanna facilitated ki-shore career, and people started giving him some standing. Maximum of his songs were composed by rd burman, a close acquaintance of ki-shor.
even i can refer to the most mellow songs of rafi sahab during 70’s, which remained more euphonious and eminent than ki-shore songs. this is in fact a dishonest hoopla by shor-kumar immature supporters, that 70’s belong to ki-shor.
if rafi sahab would not have passed away so early, ki-shor would have plainly wiped out from musical scene.
You people can never overcome the jealousy in which you are burning, and also many have religious grudges against the greatest singer of india, mohd rafi.
Endure in your subsidiarity & inferiority – complex and hang onto your delusions that you can ever proof shor-kumar dominance over the unsurpassable rafi sahib.
“khwab dekhne pur koi pabundi nahhen”
still some people adopting dual policy or say sailing in two ships, such tendency is not fair, come to one side either be rafian or a kk fan or Gs fan, it does not sound nice to tilt all sides, a rolling stone do not have any mass.
post 2999 continued.
I don’t know why my posts 2993 and 2999 are still awaiting moderation although they have been posted long back. continuing my post 2999 I would however like to say, that I unintentionally overlooked the point that post 1970s was largely dominated by Kishore Kumar although which was again interrupted by Rafi in the 1980s.
However, both were great legends who dominated Bollywood during two different times. Regards.
Kishore fans
I think you all in COMA, that’s why can not listen properly and even talk proplery. Get out of coma first, listen this song ” Zaindabad Zindabad aye mohabbat zindabad (from Mughal E Azam) you will really find the differnce between high pitch beauty of Rafi voice and kishore shouting even in lower pitch songs in (Dekha haye socha re in – bomaby to goa) like a clown is weeping before a corpse .
Kishore kumar lovers
Kishore kumar was a great singer – in fact -another great singer remembered along with rafi, whenever hindi film industry is remembered for playback singing. What we rafi fans state is that in terms of versatile achievements and melodious voice, rafi had created more impact than kishore, not to undermine kishore in any way and he had his own great contribution, but only to convey that rafi was rafi and no replication or replacement for him. I know you people who are admirers of a great singer such as kishore kumar, are intelligent enough to understand what we wanted to convey.
Your respect for ghantasala is highly respected and I know you have good knowledge on this great legend of the south, as there was some great discussion in the kishore forum long back, – nevertheless you will appreciate that he was from a different industry and hence cannot be discussed for the hindi industry specially in relation with rafi and kishore kumar. However, I support you for wrong comments by some disguised rafi fans on legends and you will note that I have also condemned such wrong comments. There are people in every forum who cross their limits of decency, as has been happening recently by some people, and it is our duty to forgive them for their ignorant comments made without knowing facts. Good day kishore fans.
Rajinder tirwedi
What happened to rafi from 1969 to 1976 ? Can you clarify ? Who was the singer who overtook rafi then? A quiz for you.
Tirwedi
you are famous than all the singers – accepted, – just try to upload a song of yours so that all people can enjoy your singing. Just shut up and be in your place, you are commenting on singers who is famous or not.
Mr. Tirwedi & others
Keep all stuff to yourself, nothing is proved with your post, you are copying all the great quotations which have been used for ghantasala and kishore kumar – for rafi – please do not do such things for an ok singer. Even anil biswas comment is enough – you people call rafi as singer who can satisfy everyone – what happened in case of anil biswas and other music directors? Just do not argue out of ignorance. What has been stated has already happened & cannot be changed and your shouting has no effect – it is like rafi shouting in high pitch songs.
it is on record that initially rafi sahab and anil bisvas were going along very well, but a rift was then created by a famous personality of india, and do you know who this person was, our beloved singer, lata mangeshkar. any how this is true that anil biswas actually said and do note it carefully, i can give you the link, ‘rafi was not my kind…..repeat….my kind of singer”. so does this make him some lesser a singer. if op nayyar says, lata voice is very thin and i needed a rich voice for my compositions, does that mean she was an inferior singer, no. this means her voice was not ‘suited’ for op nayyar. op nayyar as a result never recorded even one song with her. and let me tell you, op nayyar was a much accomplished and well known a-grade music composer, who worked with rafi sahab for so many songs.
what about the leading m.d. naushad, sjk, sd burman, madan mohan and all others who had loads of regards for rafi sahab. now you will be dumb, and would not answer my question. anil biswas later said that he did not say anything like that and these were newspaper gimmicks in order to sell their newsprints, and for cheep popularity.
now “ki-shore” fans you will have no answer. what about mannaday saying that kishore kumar was not even considered a singer in the music circles, and they nicknamed him as shorr-kumar, now you won’t have any reply.
now no such remarks against ghantasala, hence all salans remarks are made about people who are famous, and ghantasa was never a famous singer and is not a famous singer, rather an unknown singer beyond this forum. people were jealous from rafi as he was the greatest singer and they could not take from him that elite position. they were not jealous from sala ji because he was not that famous a singer from whom people would have jealousy. now got my point.
hence both of salan and shorr’s fans, burn in your own jealousy and the truth that rafi is the best singer of india is quite bitter for you and truth can never be changed.
congratulations all “rafians”. we have reached 3000 posts today, most of them have been in the praise of the greatest playback singer of india, mohd rafi sahab, whome i just love.
my one question to the learned analysts is that why is it so, as whenever a same song is being sung by a male and a femal, the male voice sounds more melodious and gorgeous than the females”. there are many examples where the male voice has left an ever lasting impact, and the song is remembered as the song of the male. one example is “zindagi bhar naheen bholeygi wo bursaat ki raat”- rafi, lata, “mere naina sawan bhado”, kishore, lata, then, ‘kabhi kabhi mere dil mey” mukesh lata.
waiting for the comments from our learned commentators, plz
why shor kumar fans are hiding behind a local singer ghantasala. They as kk fan should believe in their idol. their singer was bigger than the regional singer. have they accepted the defeat and have no arguments to save kk from humiliation, any more?
imo, kk has sung some brilliant songs, such as “merey naina sawan bhado, phir bhi mera mun piasa”. I think he sounded better than the nightingale lata.
but when it comes to singing against rafi, such type of singers are just kids and those people talks in contrary to what i believe, doesn’t have musical sense. they just very superficially hear the song and comment. as far as the essence of a song is concerned, rafi was matchless.
The hypocrites do not have any loyalty to anyone, they actually do not belong to any idol, their job is just to create chaos. Such people have assembled here at this Rafi site and calling themselves “music lovers”, they simply tilting to all sides like “thali ka baingan”. such people are very dangerous and lethal. Beware of them and deal with them very skilfully. Sometimes they praise rafi to receive sympathies from rafi fans, make believing rafians, sometimes they praise Kishore Kumar to get the sympathies from KK fans, make believing KK fans, then finally they turn back to their original devilish nature.
The overwhelming responses from all rafi fans is the strongest proof that ” A Rafi fan will not sit back and enjoy the fun, but react with all available resources, it has become so inevitable to teach a good lesson for such warmongers who surfaced recently having jealousy in their burning hearts, as such all have seen such situation has risen here at present.
Thank you rafians for taking up the cudgels against such “dhongi music lovers”.
Rafifanji, post 2997.
Referring to your third para in your above mentioned post I think I already replied to the same observations made by Kishore Kumar fans in the site”An endless feud between fans of Rafi and Kishore.” I think you were also a witness to my post. Firstly I am not sure about the authenticity of the comments made on Rafi by Salil Chowdhury, RD or Raju Bharatan. Even if we assume them to be authentic can we really take those comments to be genuine yardsticks to evaluate the greatness of Rafi ? If Rafi would have been an just an okay singer how the other great MDs like, SJ, Madanmohan, LP, SD, OPN, Roshan and many others utilized the voice of Rafi which resulted in the creation of hundreds of legendary super hit songs the fragrance and beauty of which are still afresh today even 31 years after death of this great legend? If Rafi was an only an okay singer how could Rafi dominate the most competitive national forum of Indian playback world, Bollywood for long twenty years uninterrupted? Some Kishore fan even passed a remark that if Kishore was classically trained it would have been a clean sweep for kishore. I had dealt with such remarks too. I told that classical training definitely gives a singer the ability to sing songs of different types but that can not be a guarantee for success in the play back singing world. Manna Dey was was believed to have an edge over rafi from the classical angle. Even then Manna Dey could not surpass rafi in the domain of play back music. The reason was the extraordinary god gifted voice structure of Rafi which enabled him to sing all types of songs including very high pitch songs. True if kishore would be more classically trained he might have been able to sing more varied types of songs but that could not change his voice structure. That is why we do not find any high pitch songs like “Duniyan ke rakhwale” or ‘Zindabad, zindabad” to the credit of manna Dey or Kishore Kumar.
In this context I would like to mention here that Kishore is one of my favorite singers too.
However, I don’t understand one thing. Although these are all settled issues why still such questions are being asked? Tell me honestly can one change history? The supremacy and recognition that Mohammed rafi has achieved and the devastating influence that he has cast has crossed the national barriers and transcended in to the international arena and no playback singer dead or alive has been able to reach the position that Rafi had reached. This is now a historical truth that no body can change.
I would therefore request all distinguished music lovers to stop this endless discussion and let us all enjoy the artistry of all legendary singers with due recognition and respect for each one of them.
Regards.
post 2994….Nameless ki-shor fan: pls read this carefuly: Pls do not ever come in here and write fiction and imaginary things and provoke music lovers. u can do this on the barren pages of your hero over there.
read this attentively :
a mrs shikah vora is on record saying that anil biswas ‘never’ did say anything like what you have imagned about mohd rafi saheb. shikha vora is the daughter of anil biswas and holds many music shows on diff. subjects.
mrs shikha who stays in delhi is a rafi lover and has organised several programmes to tribute mohd rafi.
even, anil biswas had told before leaving for delhi that ‘he’ never did say such a thing ever and the press has played it up because his favourite singer was talat mahmood. the group members have recorded this and they are still alive and living in mumbai. pls come and see me ki shor fan. we will enlighten u on this.
b) i have met salil choudary few times. salil da had high words for mohd rafi saaheb. salil da had rehearsed mohd rafi at his residence for the song O sajna, barkha bahar aayyeeee. the rehearsed part is still available with music lovers and with salil da’s family.
salil da had high regards for mohd rafi and we have spoken about it many a times.
dont bring ur bull shit here and show your ignorance and make people laugh at you – shor fella.
Musharaff ji
In my previous post I have mentioned the era of rafi as irrreplaceable and incomparable, Do you expect anything more? I have condemned only some wrong languages and facts used by some quarters, and which I will continue to do if the same happens for rafi too (which I have done earlier and will continue to do – I have not seen any ghantasala fan using any derogatory language – they are just arguing for their singer, so that is why you might not have seen me pointing fingers at ghantasala fans, like I have done for some disguised rafi fans.)
You have supported rafi and I have supported you, because the way you present your language and facts can be discussed, and that is the reason you have been appreciated by ghantasala fans too, you know that. And no ghantasala fan has ever pointed finger at you specifically, you can understand that.
Next kishore kumar fans – Musharaff ji and others to clarify and resolve – what is the rationale behind this Mr. Raju bharatan’s comments and salil, anil biswas, R D Burman etc… comments on rafi? What is the motive behind such statements by such music directors ? This has become a focal point for kishore fans and they are putting up the same point towards rafi. Could any expert rafi fan clarify on this?
Musharaff ji,
We both have similar views, hope you have forgotten our discussions long back. I have already clarified you “very clearly” in my previous post, what my intention was – false facts need to be outrightly condemned that is what I have done and will continue to do – and which I have also done similarly for people who have mentioned such facts for rafi, My previous post mentions rafi was an musical incarnation sent to earth by god – what more you want for rafi ? Is it not the highest statement ever possible by a rafi fan and can there be a greater statement than that ?
We never called rafi a muslim – or never commented on religious backgrounds – again all lies. Behave properly rafi fans – you are not knowing what you are talking. Just go and ask salil, anil biswas, pancham etc. – You have not clarified my point – are you greater than these music directors. Why do you slip away from my questions ? next, such comments by any musician are not found for ghantasala – why do you not respond for that ? why rafi was commented like that ? Just think you will have answers, jealous rafi fans.
Rafi sang Jaane kya dhundti rehti hai with 104 degre fever.
and, he after he sang : Ishwar allah tero naaaam, he gave his earnings from the song (rs.10,000) to the studio liftman for his daughters marriage.
besides, rafi has helped so many people in need. a divine singer takes birth ‘just’ once in many many centuries.
the frogs can croak and do jungle dance at the most – nothing else and die of jealousy. there are absolutely “no” cures invented by modern science for this – thus far.
while, true music lovers will celebrate the music of mohd rafi and legends, frogs will come and try to jump, fall and fail in their endeavours.
this, trait of jealosy – will never go away tooo sooon.
The hypocrites do not have any loyalty to anyone, they actually do not belong to any idol, their job is just to create chaos. Such people have assembled here at this Rafi site and calling themselves “music lovers”, they simply tilting to all sides like “thali ka baingan”. such people are very dangerous and lethal. Beware of them and deal with them very skilfully. Sometimes they praise rafi to receive sympathies from rafi fans, make believing rafians, sometimes they praise Kishore Kumar to get the sympathies from KK fans, make believing KK fans, then finally they turn back to their original devilish nature.
The overwhelming responses from all rafi fans is the strongest proof that ” A Rafi fan will not sit back and enjoy the fun, but react with all available resources, it has become so inevitable to teach a good lesson for such warmongers who surfaced recently having jealousy in their burning hearts, as such all have seen such situation has risen here at present.
Thank you rafians for taking up the cudgels against such “dhongi music lovers”.
Maha Devikaji,
Thank you once again for providing the link to one of my most favorite songs of Rafi shaab, “Saaj ho tum awaz hoon main”.
One will marvel to observe this bold expression of love, a manifestation of love whose influence his beloved can’t ignore, “Rok sake to rok lo apni payel ki jhankaar”. See the sharpness of Rafi’s voice and the amount of modulation that Rafi generated through his magical voice, shifting effortlessly from note to note, from one pitch to the other.
No one but the greatest Mohammed Rafi can bring such expression to such type of songs.
You are right. lata Mangeshkar has, in an interview with “The Hindu” commented about Rafi that with his unprecedented range of voice Rafi could outclass any singer, whether it be me, Asha, Mannada or any other singer.
In an another introductory speech in remembering rafi Sahab Lataji told” Yeh mere khush naasibi ke maine unke saath sabse zayada gaana gaya, aise kalakar baar baar janam nahin lete”
Long live Rafi sahab !
regards
Rafifanji, post 2852.
I may be a little late in responding to you. But there is off course a saying “Better be late than never”.
I think you get me all wrong. There are two very interrelated concepts, “Impartiality” and “loyalty”. Impartiality essentially means to be to be neutral and unbiased while approaching a problem or making a judgement while loyalty means to be honest and sincere to the person or thing to whom you have pledged loyalty. This two concepts are not contradictory. A person may be neutral and unbiased while making qualitative judgement without being disloyal to his idol. That is exactly what I had been doing in all my posts while making musical analysis among legends at the same time showing all the respects to these luminaries. Now in the face of the sudden outbreak of arguments between Rafians and Ghantasalans my loyalty towards Rafi Sahab naturally demanded me to share some points of arguments with my fellow Rafi fans in order to reply to the arguments of Ghantasalans logically and effectively. So what is harm in that? What makes you question my impartiality in my musical analysis? I am a great admirer and a fan of Ghantasala too. But that does not in any way affect my loyalty towards Rafi sahab.
Now it is the question of your loyalty towards the great legend under whose label you write yourself “Rafifan 1”. It is not only my observation but of other Rafians too who had earlier than me observed you tilting towards Ghantasala and coming up with an immediate post praising Ghantasala equaling him with Rafi whenever any praise is written about Rafi. However, I do not mind that. It is your basic fundamental right to support Ghantasala or any other singer , write any praises about him, and put forward your arguments to defend him as I as a Rafian do for Rafi. But my question is why do you do that under the banner of “Rafifan 1? Whose fan you are then basically?
And for your information sir, I am from Bengal and speak Bengali and am a fan of Rafi as well as Ghantasala and Kishore Kumar. So it is not necessary to be a Telegu speaking person to be fan of Ghantasala.
Regards.
t is a known fact that Salil Chowdhury used to feel that Manna Dey was not given due respect in the hindi film industry. In spite of singing for Raj Kapoor (in fact most of his hit songs were sung by Manna da) it was Mukesh who was known as voice of RK. Also the group of Rafi and Naushad were experts in churning out hits, and were at their peak. Salil Chowdhury has said that he felt that Manna De was sidelined as he was a Bengali and the music directors felt he would not get the nuances of urdu correctly and so naturally must have felt an animosity towards Rafi, but fact remains that just 5 years ago in a concert, Manna De said publicly that Rafi was the greatest (the vdo is still there in youtube)
As for RDB, he always felt in awe of Rafi as he was the chosen singer for his father SD Burman, and when RDB came onto the film scene on his own, he wanted to create a distinct identity rather than being known as a clone of his father, and hence chose Kishore Kumar who was a close friend of Mehmood who was RDB’s closest friend. He also changed most of the orchestration to sound different, and providentially his songs clicked becoz of the change, and Kishore Kumar had arrived.
Nowhere has RDB ever said that Kishore Kumar was superior to Rafi; in fact, I remember RDB’s last interview immediately after 1942 a love story, where he said that Kishore Kumar was his favorite, but any song that Kishore sang, Rafi could sing, but not all that Rafi sang Kishore could, eg. classical.
This tribute from Lata was published in the August 1st, 2009 edition of the Hindustan Times newspaper (Hindi edition)
Rafi has sung more songs than all playback singers put together. He has given more hits than any other singer and was on the top of his game for 35 years. He could nail any type of song and was the only singer who could sound like the actor or the screen, he could modulate his voice with ease. Like KK said Rafi could sing a song in a million ways and I could sing only in one. No arguments, Rafi is the king of playback singing.
Rafi, Lata, Kishore, Asha, Mukesh & Manna Dey are all legends of the Bollywood playback industry. However, if you purely judge the vast bodies of work that these singers have left behind without any biases, it is easy to judge that Rafi was the ultimate greatest of all Bollywood playback singers.
No wonder, most of the other fellow legends of that era like Lata, Manna Dey, Kishore, Mukesh, and a host of other MDs have gone on record and proclaimed none other than Rafi to be the best of all Bollywood singers.