Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?
This article is written by Mr.H.V.Guru Murthy.
A regular browser to web site mohdrafi.com, having gone through the letters of Rafi lovers would assume that R D Burman did not utilize Rafi properly, instead he preferred Kishore Kumar. Because of this reason, Rafi Fans are still upset with RDB even though he passed away a decade back.
Yes, it is true that RDB preferred KK over Rafi during early seventies. For that matter, which Music Director or Actor or Producer or Director will not have his preference. It was well known that Raj Kapoor always preferred Mukesh, Manoj Kumar preferred Mukesh or Mahendra Kapoor, B.R.Chopra films had Mahendra, MD Ravi also had plenty of songs with Mahendra so also O.P after he broke with Rafi. Similarly OP always had either Asha or Geetha Dutt and never Lata. Salil also used all other Singers. Director Subba Rao insisted on Mukesh for SAATHI even though the hero was Rajendra Kumar and MD Naushad, two Rafi Fans. Even Kalyanji Anandji had many films with Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and KK even though Rafi was instrumental in their raise through JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE, AAMNE SAAMNE, etc. LP, by all means Rafi Bhakts, used KK regularly in the early seventies even for Rafi heroes like Jeetendra, Dharmendra, etc. SJ also switched over to KK in movies like MAIN SUNDAR HOON, DIL DAULAT DUNIYA, KAL AAJ AUR KAL, etc. Of course, the music standard came down a notch or two in that period. But, well, it is their prerogative to have whomsoever they wanted though I am sure in heart of heart, why even openly, they would have admitted the superiority of Rafi over all other Singers. Similarly, RDB also used KK for almost all his movies in the early seventies as perhaps he had some special chemistry with him.
However, let us not forget that RDB used Rafi extensively during late sixties as his main playback singer right from the first movie. He gave hit music with Rafi in TEESRI MANZIL, NAQLI NAWAAB, CARAVAN, PYAAR KA MAUSAM, THE TRAIN, ABHILASHA, ADHIKAR, RATON KA RAAJA, etc. Later during late seventies he returned to Rafi and gave hits like SHAAN, HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, ABDULLAH, ZAMANE KO DIKHANA HAI, etc. In between, he had Rafi in CHANDI SONA qawali with Mannadey (Ek Shok Hasina Se), YADON KI BAARAT (Title song and who can forget the duet with Asha Chura Liya Hai Tumne), DIL KA BAADSHAH (this Raj Kumar starrer had all songs by Rafi), THE GREAT GAMBLER (Raftasa Mera Naam), SHEHZADA (Solo Tere Attaroo and duet with Lata Kaahe Ko Bulaya), etc.
If a person cannot appreciate the greatness of Rafi, then it can be safely concluded that the person does not have a sense of music. Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc. RD would have definitely known the great qualities of Rafi, the Singer. Just because he did not use Rafi extensively as one would expect, let us not degrade this MD who gave us some good songs in CHANDAN KA PALNA, PADOSAN, HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA, MERE JEEVAN SAATHI, AJNABEE, AMAR PREM, SANAM TERI KASAM, BHOOT BANGLA, BAHARON KE SAPNE (Rafi solo Zamane Ne Maare), PARICHAY, KINAARA, APNA DESH, ZAHREELA INSAAN, RAMPUR KA LAKSHAMAN (Pyaar Ka Samay with Lata, KK and Rafi), 1942 – A LOVE STORY, KATI PATANG to certain extent, etc. though he gave some very mediocre music in films like DEEWAR, SHOLAY, KITAAB, ZAKHMEE, RAFOO CHAKKAR, NAMKEEN, DHARAM KARAM and BIWI O BIWI (so un-RK film like), etc. so many forgettable movies as for as music was concerned.
The irony of RDB was either he gave good music or petered out to a very mediocre music in so many films. I read some where that Shashi Kapoor called RD as National Anthem Music Director. In those days, theatres used to play National Anthem at the end of the movie and the Hall doors used to be shut till the completion of the Anthem. As soon as the Anthem used to commence, our in-disciplined people used to rush to the Hall Door and wait for the door opening. Similarly, whenever RDB songs commenced in most of the movies, people used to rush to toilet.
Still, it is not fair that we use harsh and sometimes, un-parliamentary language against any body if they differ with our views. We cannot forget the contribution of all these MDs, Heroes, Singers, Directors, etc. in making the Indian Film Music so rich.
bristol & u.k. : pls do not compare chalk and cheese. rafi ji is way ahead of any singer and comparing rafi ji with any other singer is most “absurd”.
its like saying himesh reshamiya is the singer of this century. please dont expose ur hearing problems in this thread.
Binu Nair.
mumbai.
ref post 538.
‘unfortuntely the truth is Kishore da songs are far superior compared to Rafi’s songs.’
these oneliners are most stupid(so its posters!) things here!
Kishore kumar was nowhere near rafi saheb and this fact was well known even to kishore kumar itself.
RD opt for the voice of rafi saheb only for the two reason, first when he find that his composition is very weak and only the voice of rafi saheb can make it hummable.just like his songs ‘YAMMA YAMMA’.and second, when find that his compostion is really tough and no other singer cd do justice with that song.just like the song ‘PAL DO PAL KA SAATH HUMARA’.
I feel bristol has a point here, esp. the fact that Rafisahab’s calibre wasn’t really put to best use in many of his ’70s songs. I also feel his voice wasn’t always at its best in several ’70s (esp. late ’70s) songs, the voice seemed to lack that innate heaviness in some songs while in some others it was heavier (and thicker) than usual. However I wouldn’t subscribe to the opinion that Kishoreda’s songs were far better and more touching. Infact Rafisahab did sing some wonderful numbers in ’70s too like Laila Majnu songs, though Kishoreda, generally speaking, got the better songs in mid-70s.
ref to the post 540 of mr.myk,
yes you are right, mm was much more than the gazal composer, here are two such examples, both the songs are classy as well as popular::
1.http://youtube.com/watch?v=tHuWwlL3Erc
2.http://youtube.com/watch?v=FmIUtuIvcB8
infact i love the song #2 by asha, compare it with any western based rd-asha number, this song will beat any of the over hyped rd-asha western number. manohari’s sax is treat to listen…
song #1 is best song ever picturised in vijay anand(as i think..), rafi ji’s melody is excellent….
ref to the post 540 of mr.myk,
yes you are right, mm was much more than the gazal composer, here are two such examples, both the songs are classy as well as popular::
1.http://youtube.com/watch?v=tHuWwlL3Erc
2.http://youtube.com/watch?v=FmIUtuIvcB8
infact i love the song #2 by asha, compare it with any western based rd-asha number, this song will beat any of the over hyped rd-asha western number. manohari’s sax is treat to listen…
song #1 is best song ever picturised in vijay anand(as i think..), rafi ji’s melody is excellent….
ref to p 544::
sudhir ji,
sd burman never deteriorated the hfm, he was as classy as popular, perhaps the only one among truly greats who could well mix class and mass into his music, …. no matter whom he utilised his music was always nice … and as far as quality is concerned, for me sd’s music was next to and very close to the class of mm’s music from 70s, mm gave great quality tunes to 70s followed by sd burman, here are few great albums of sd from 70s::
1.ishq par zor nahi
2.sharmilee
3.abhimaan
4.milli
5.chupke chupke
6.anuraag
7.tere mere sapne
8.gambler
9.zindagi zindagi
10.prem pujari……..
Dear Hussieni Shiekh : Ref.539 : I support yr comment on kk completely. the de-grading of hindi music started from the advent of kishore kumar. Barring few songs kishore sang all thrash songs without tune, melody or meaning. And to help kishore kumar do this sin of degrading music in hindi films, we had stalwarts like r.d. burman, bappi lahri and s.d. burman(sorry for including s.d.burman though he is my favourite music director who ditched mohd rafi in the end, because he wanted to be in the limelight and who compromised on melody and gave all noisy music) S.d. burman was a man whose favourite singer was mohd rafi and not kishore kumar. he would go out of his orbit to have mohd rafi in his films. Sometimes he succedded and that is why we have so many melodious of rafi and s.d. burman.
But money and fame and name was ruling the roost and that is why music directors were opting for kk for some time. and thus started the de-gradation of music. Why, even a man like naushad was compelled to take kk and also recorded a song with him. Actors like rajendra kumar, biswajeet and others who attained star symbol only becuase of mohd rafi, switched to kk thus ending their own carriers.
So, let us not forget that rafi had sung long time back `paise ke pechan yahan insaan ki keemat koi nahin`
Ref post 538.
Ajv from Bristol,
You need to clean your ears and stop talking bull shit.
All in music industry know that Rafi was far superior in all types of songs and voice quality than any other singer. KK doesn’t even come second.
Even KK himself considedred himself below Rafi sahab.
You KK fans are full of bull shit.
Start talking some sense and you will be taken a little seriously.
As i think we should not speak about songs if it was singed by other esle than Mohd Rafi..Mr Bachchan and dilip kummar they are great actors but they can’t be in all flims.
we can speak about songs one singer was not able to sing that song and other singer did that there are many Example of that…..
KK was one of the best singer ever we had.
People speak why Mohd Rafi didn’t got Bharat Ratna it so easy to answer because Bharat Ratna more smaller than God gift from more than 50 years still at the top…..
post 538 ajv: we all know the limitations in Kishores voice. his songs in many movies bombed bringing the career of r.d.burman to a halt. No doubt he is a great singer with very great limitations.
The hoarse voice in many songs “trouble” the ears; and it has very minimum melody.
k.l.saighal and rafi ji had melody in their songs which kk lacked and this is the reason why KK regarded these two singers as the “greatest”.
Have u listened to rafi’s : ae nargis – e – mastana, and see how he has said the words: aee………………………. one word is enough to get the bliss and beauty of the whole number.
KK was the bestseller no doubt with the rajesh khanna wave and when the wave went down; rafi ji was back with a bang. i would add herein that some of KK songs are gems and marvellous and rafi saaheb would accept and compliment the singer as a true sportsman. but rafi i think lacked the p.r. and relied only on “quality singing” with no politicking.
the sisters too backed kk to settle some scores with rafi-ji along with a “caucus” in the music industry.
this proves the point that most of kks songs were “hyped” and “not” naturally popular howmuch ever u may sing “otherwise”.
binu nair, mumbai.
Ref Post 538:
Saying KK songs are far superior to Rafi songs is like saying Bappi Lahiri was a better composer than RD Burman. Please don’t spread utter nonsense on this site, there is already more than enough on the KK site, so leave it at that.
Rafi’s songs and voice quality were never motonous at any point in his career. They were both of the ultimate high quality, rich and golden in all aspects. On the other hand, KK’s songs and voice quality were not of the same level and standard as Rafi’s, and he was never consistent in those aspects because he did not have those capabilities.
——————-
Mr. XXX,
Thanks for your write-up, I fully agree, RR exploited KK’s voice differently compared to RDB and others. There is a duet from BBM, the title song, Kishore with Asha, “Suniye Kahiye”, where RR again makes Kishore sing in a soft way, and the results are great. I also agree that RR’s best came with Rafi.
You said it perfectly, Kaifi Azmi is indeed “24 karat gold”, and Gulzar cannot be placed in the same league as him and other greats. You are right, none of the second generation composers came close to MM in terms of quality in the 70’s. Remember the song “Mushkil Hai Jeena” from Sahib Bahadur sung by Lata, it is a masterpiece, and shows that MM was always great till the end, just like Dada Burman. MM’s orchestration was outstanding, his violins were pure class as you mentioned. As a ghazal composer he was in a league of his own, but MM was much more than just ghazals. He could compose in any genre as he proved, but people sometimes tend to associate him only with ghazals.
Re. Post # 538: Most of KK’s songs after 1980 were cheap and bogus. His voice had turned fron bad to worst. During that period, singers like Shabbir Kumar and Mohd. Aziz were recording more than KK. Rafi Saheb’s voice remained melodious and sweet till he passed away.
Binu,
Nobody needs to justify the singing quality of Rafi. Rafi was a great singer even if you don’t spell it. But unfortuntely the truth is Kishore da songs are far superior compared to Rafi’s songs. Rafi’s songs and his voice quality was montonous in late 70’s. Infact many of the rafi songs doesn’t utilize his sheer talent.
Sometimes it is a matter of taste! Kishore da songs just touches the soul.
ajv
bristol,uk
Re. Post 536: I am not against KK, but I meant KK could not have sung it, as it was a high pitch song, and Mr. Sudhir Rao, you may be right too. RDB knew that KK was not capable of the said song!
Post 532: hussein ji : kishore regarded and treated rafi saaheb as his elder brother and as the greatest singer.
more, kishore ji used to summon rafi to the studios many times if the song was difficult and the examples are (few) Mukaddar ka sikander title pathos song; ajab hai dastaan teri yeh zindagi and many others according to industry musicians who are ever willing to share anecdotes with rafi followers in the rafi foundation.
a composer also reported : kishore called rafi in and left after telling the producer : this is rafi’s song and he will sing this song. the musicians were confused : how rafi ji is here when the song is to be recorded in kishore’s voice.
binu nair…. rafi foundation…..mumbai.09833 250 701
kIND ATTN. MR.SHIEKH : Thanks for yr observation of r.d burman not taking kishore kumar in `yamma yamma` from film `shan` but i want to correct yr observation. U had observed that kk did not have guts to sing this song, but the fact is that r.d. burman did not have guts to take kishore kumar in this particular song as both their voices,ie kk and rd burman, would have made this song very noisy and very un-melody. It was rafi`s silken and golden voice which lifts the song to its melody. i am sure u will agree my point of view.
Ref – 530
I don’t think KK could have rendered this song either with Rafi or RDB. Its is very high pitch song at certain points, were RDB had give Rafi the upper hand. Perhaps the reason the snycronization betweem the two is perfect.
Dr. Khaja Aliuddin ji,
Maa ka aanchal was great score my madan mohan, and great lyrics by kaifi too..
asha sung some of her best songs here, rafi ji sung “maa hai mohabbat ka naam” which was great too…
here is the link to the song::
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eFC3IpAXuLE
Re. Post 530: Kishore Kumar had no guts to sing this song.
Janab HV Guru Murthy Sahab, Adab Araz Hai,
I totally agree with you and Janab XXX. Kaifi Azmi Sahab is a great poet, no doubt about it. Please listen to his songs in Shola aur Shabnam and Maa ka Aanchal. These are the collector’s items sung by Rafi Sahab. There is a beautiful song on “Maa” in the movie ” Maa ka Aanchal”. Very sentimental song, beautifully rendered by Rafi Sahab. Whenever I listen this song, I cry for my mother.
Looking forward to hear from both of you and all Rafi lovers.
With regards,
Dr. Khaja Aliuddin
Chicago
Can anybody explain why r.d.burman preferred mohd.rafi in the duet song `yamma yamma yamma yamma hai kubsurat samma` from film `shaan` with
mohd rafi and r.d. burman singing together. This song became a melody only because of rafi`s voice otherwise a thrash song. Imagine r.d.burman and kishore kumar singing the same song.
Dear Rafi fans : Mohd. Rafi was the greatest singer the world has ever seen. But what makes this man be remembered by his fans everyday in and out. It is hard to explain this, but I feel Mohd. Rafi was a great human being, he was never involved in any controversies,was a spotless character, with no qualms singing with any junior artists, always punctual in the recording room, always more than willing for re-takes till music director and himself were fully convinced of the song.
A man is remembered for his skill and quality but is worshiped if he has human virtues also. Mohd. Rafi is such human being who had both in abundance. Sometimes I wonder whether he was a better singer or a better human being. Did he become great singer because he was a very good human being or he became a very good human being because he was a great singer? I say this because a singer can sing better if he has learnt music but how will you explain `MOHD RAFI` who surpassed everybodys expectation in all the songs he has sung and each and every song of his has become an example or `MISAL` For this to happen he must be a great singer as well as great human being. Mohd. Rafi had only one challenge to face and that challenge came from within himself. It was not his effort to sing better than other singers but to sing his best.
By giving his best Mohd. Rafi broke all the barriers in playback singing and became an institution by himself thus telling the world the true meaning of singing is in expressing the lyrics with intense feeling.
I agree with post 526
RR’s use of KK was great, perhaps LP should also be included. LP’s use of KK was very extraordinary, especially when it comes to songs of ‘Anoroodh’. All the songs are outstanding including the classical number “Aao Ke Anoroodh”.
Mr. XXX,
I fully aree. Kaifi Azmi was 24 carat gold, where as Gulzar though good, is not in the same bracket. The beauty of Kaifi was the lyrics were simple, meaningful without usage of complicated words, where as Gulzar’s, you always need a dictionary. I have a cassette of Lataji’s, singing Kaifi’s songs, about 10 to 12 songs, all wonderful songs, but standout being, “Betaab Dil KI Tamanna Yahi Hai” (Hanste Zakhm) and “Zarasi Aahat” (Haqeeqat). The other songs are “Baharon Mera Jeevan Bhi Savaron” (Aakhree Khat), “Chalte Chalte” (Pakeezah), “Do Dil Toote” (Heer Ranzha), “Milo Na Tum To Hum Ghabaraye” (Heer Ranzha), “Hai Tea Saath Meri Wafa” (Hindusthan Ki Kasam), “Aaj Socha To Aansoo Bhar Aaye” (Hanste Zakhm), etc.
mr.myk,
you summed up really very intersting points regarding rr, i agree that he exploited kishore in different way altogether than pancham, infact he chose a very different scale for kishore which was not kishore’s scale and he sung with false voice but still the songs were very catchy, however pancham used kishore in his original scale where kishore used to crack his voice to reach the high notes(e.g “chala jata hoon kisi ki dhun mein” ke antare), and when there was no scope to crack the voice, we can feel his inconvenience(“mere naina sawan bhado ke antare”). kishore stressing on those notes where rafi used to reach with ease.. rr used kk brilliantly in his original scale too(pardesiya ye sach hai piya, do aur do paanch bana de, lehro ki tarah yaadein).. i think khatta meetha was also great album by rr, all the songs were nice and very fresh, this movie was one of the best by basu chattarjee and rr gave nice modern melodies here, refreshing music by rr….
also notice that how well rr exploited full throated voice of kishore, whether it was “bhakuni saa ” from khatta meetha aur hoti hai ye raat hone do from “do aur do paanch” and many others. but i think his best compositions came through rafi, as mentioned by you those six songs, all those compositions are really very nice..
regarding kaifi and gulzar, i like both of them but kaifi is 24 karat gold for me like {sahir,majrooh,raja mehdi,hasrat,shailaindera,shakeel}, we can bracket kaifi among these greats but we can’t bracket gulzar among them…
kaifi’s work with madan mohan was outstanding,its nice that you placed madan’s “tum jo mil gay ho” among the top ten, i would also like to place at least 4 if not more by madan among top 10 from 70s…
if we look at the madan’s work from 70s, i think quality wise none of the composer from 2nd genration came close to the madan mohan, madan mohan’s loss was vast blow to hfm, it took out a class out of the hfm..
it was only after madan’s death other gazal singers became popular, mehdi hasan, glam ali, jagjeet.. all of them sung great gazals but when compared to the madan’s gazals than definitely there is a lack of emotions and melodies…
madan’s gazals with lata & rafi were great mix of emotions,melodies and most beautiful orchestration, you will definitely find melodies in mehdi hasan and jagjeet.. but when compared to madan’s gazals, emotions and orchestration are lacking in a great amount comparatively.. how about madan’s use of violins in his gazals .. it was sheer magic… madan mohan ji was great…
RR composed “Kya Karoon Sajni” from Swami sung by Yesudas, a nice classical-based song which shows RR’s ability to compose in the classical genre. Also, there is a Lata song from Man Pasand which is also classical-based, “Suman Sudha Rajnigandha”.
ref 522 : Myk: yes rajesh roshan was the trend setter with lilting songs in the seventies. he never did forget rafi saaheb and created the song : saj rahi gali from kunwara baap and all time “different” song in which rafi saaheb added all the splendour needed to garnish the song.
r.d.b gave us some “great” works but i always wonder how such gifted composers “lose” their way and the ground.
only, s.d.b. and madan mohon ji gave us hits till the end of their lives and composed “great tunes”
binu nair. rafi foundation, mumbai
It’s not as if RDB was not successful in the 75-80 period, he definitely was, with Rafi by his side, but others like RR were successful as well.
How about Usha Khanna in the 70’s who had been there since the days of Dil Dekhe Dekho. She gave Rafi many of his finest songs, and some of their outstanding 70’s/80’s gems are:
Teri Galiyon Mein Na – Hawas
Boonden Nahin Sitare – Sajan Ki Saheli
Tu Is Tarah Se Meri Zindagi – Aap To Aise Na The
Kaise Jeet Lete Hain – Sajan Bina Suhagan
Jhoomta Sawan Dekho Aaya – Do Khiladi
I always wonder what MM would have produced had he lived longer. His Mausam and Laila Majnu were his last golden albums in the 70’s. I’m sure he would have continued to produce wonderful music. The Rafi-MM combo produced special songs, and they would have continued to produce magic after 1975. MM’s music was in a class of its own, very fresh and modern, and he was a composer who changed with the times.
“Tum Jo Mil Gaye Ho” is one of the ten best song of the 70’s (imo). Mr. XXX, what do you think of Kaifi Azmi, and how would you rate him compared to Gulzar ?.
Mr. Nair,
Thanks for your post. I agree, RR’s music did have a novelty aspect to it. He inherited his father’s musical genes and talent, and he assisted the great L-P for five years. Laxmikant termed him “The Last of the Originals”.
RDB went on over-drive with Kishore and ended up hitting his SUV against a brick wall and damaging not only the outside, but the interior as well. Had he made better choices, his music would have been better. Anyhow, his music is still great, and Rafi brought melody and class to RDB’s music, something no other male singer did, including Kishore. Also, no matter what happened, Rafi is still an integral part of RD’s career right throughout, and RD’s best came through Rafi.
RR didn’t get a chance to work with Rafi as much as other composers, but whatever they did is excellent. RR’s best definitely came with the legendary voices.
There is a qawwali composed by RR from Jay Vijay sung by Rafi and Aziz Nazan, “Badi door se chlkar aayai hain”, its a good song. Roshan Senior was the King of qawwali’s and after him the best qawwali composer was Pancham. RR mentioned in an interview that he didn’t get a chance to compose for qawwali’s that much, but I think what he did compose in this genre is enough to show that he was skilled here too.
There are two songs that remind me of Roshan Senior, composed by Roshan Junior, they are both Suman-Rafi duets, from Jay Vijay and Unees Bees. One of them, “Naraazgi yeh aap ki” has an excellent tabla with a classical touch.
Mr. XXX, Sur Sangam was a fantastic album, one of the best of the 80’s decade, L-P yet again showed their skills in classical music, but I wish Rafi was there to sing those songs, he would have enhanced them by miles. The songs are still very good though.
I agree, “Humein tumse pyar” by Parveen Sultana is a gem, its better than the Kishore version which had to be modified.
Mr. XXX,
Thanks for your write-up. Excellent point, you are right, many associate only RDB as Kishore’s best MD because of the great work that they did from 1970-75, and forget about others like RR who contributed a lot to KK’s repetoire. In fact, I would go a step further and say that RR was able to extract a different sound from Kishore, a softer side that RD could not. If you take a sample of songs by Kishore from RD and RR, you will see that KK sounded different under RR. Although Kishore did not have a wide range compared to Rafi, RR tapped into his full abilities as a singer. I agree, Pancham composed better for Lata, Rafi, Asha rather than KK 1975 onwards.
One thing if you observe about early RR songs, is their high-pitch singing. He liked to make singers cover various notes, and he was lucky to work with all the great voices, and fully exploit their abilities. Besides Kishore, Rafi and Lata, he used Asha in a great way as well. There is a song from Priyatama, “Cham cham barse ghata” in which RR used the multi-track recording, similar to what Pancham did, its an outstanding song, fully in RR style. The same year there was another multi track recording from Mukti by Asha composed by Pancham, “Dil Sajan Jalta Hai” which is also good but I think the Priyatama song is much better. This goes to show what kind of talent Junior Roshan had and what kind of an impact he made. His music can be considered a sister of Pancham’s music, but they are totally different and unique in their respective ways, and the multi-track effect shows RR’s ability to match steps with Pancham. Even a song like “Kahan tak yeh man ko” by Kishore from BBM with the single guitar and violins is where he matches steps with Pancham.
How about Usha Mangeshkar who received many chances to shine under RR, and then Suman Kalyanpur, who was once backed by S-J in the 60’s got the chance to sing under RR as well. We have Anwar who was given a break in 1979 with Janta Hawaldar and his beautiful songs from that film. He was a fair music director, and he brought out the best of Rafi and Kishore (and others) either together or individually.
I consider Doosra Aadmi to be one of RR’s most accomplished and polished works and one of Yash Chopra’s 5 best all-time albums. Each and every song is a gem, be it the three Lata-KK duets, “Nazron se kah do”, “Aao manaye jashn-e-mohabbat”, “Aankhon mein kajal hai”, then the best triad ever made in my view “chal kahin door nikal jaaye”, and Kishore’s under-rated “jaan meri rooth gayi” is great. RR even got Deven Verma to sing a nice song in the film as well. This album again showed RR at his creative and melodious best. I feel HKKN should have been awarded the Filmfare for that year and if not that film then definitely Doosra Aadmi.
Khatta Meetha is also a good score, the two standout songs are “Thoda hai thode ki” and “tumse mila tha pyar” by Lata-KK, and the rest of the songs are good too, but this album overall is not in the same league of Doosra Aadmi.
I agree, what Bappi did to Pancham in the 80’s, RR could have done earlier, but Pancham bounced back vis a vis Rafi. Even with this, RR managed to hold his own (with Rafi too) and come out with flying colours in the late seventies. I think during this time (1975-1980), with the exception of HKKN and a few other albums, RR was more successful than Pancham and the stage was set for the next round. Then Rafi saab passed away, Pancham was never the same, and RR was also affected big time too, and was also never the same, which was the same situation for all composers. Imagine a Rafi-RD and Rafi-RR battle royale in the 80’s, how wonderful it would have been.
It would be interesting to find out what was going through Pancham’s mind during RR’s arrival. Here was the son of a legendary composer, who also set trends, just like himself, and brought a totally new style of music.
Pancham was very versatile, his music was creative, his rhythm aspect was phenomenal, combining many different percussion instruments, and he composed in various genres. RR was also versatile but I don’t think he got the chance to compose for a solid classical-based album, though we have classical-based gems from him such as Lata’s “Aap Kahen aur hum na aaye” from des pardes which is a ghazal with a classical touch. He was no less creative and his rhythm and percussion was excellent, also combining many different rhythm instruments. Where Pancham scored on the guitar, RR was good in this aspect too, but Pancham was better, and RR had better use of brass and the violin ensemble (orchestra), even though Pancham’s violins and brass were creative too. Both were excellent in melody.
RR’s music from Julie indicated a storm arrival to shake the music scene, and provide an excellent alternative to the ruling trio of LP, RD and KA during that time. MM and Dada unfortunately passed away in the same year, but RR’s music was like a whiff of fresh air. Another thing about Junior Roshan is that he is a brilliant arranger, his interludes and music had this effortless ease about them, and like many MD’s he left his trademark stamp on the composition.
Mr. XXX, what is your opinion on these Rafi-RR songs:
Dil Ki Kali Yunhi Sada – Inkaar
Tume Nahin Pehchan – Ek Hi Raasta
Teri Palkon Mein Kajal – Jay Vijay
Naraazgi Yeh Aap Ki – Unees Bees
Bahon Mein Teri Masti – Kaala Patthar
Tumko Khush Dekh Kar – Aap Ke Deewane
really I don’t understant why some people when they speak about RD they put KK,if i am not wrong 90% of songs singed by Mohd Rafi under RD music are hit,if am not wrong LP had more hit songs with KK than RD,
who can give the list of RD hit flim as music from 1966,as we know and I think 90% songs was hit in 1970’s was because the flim was hit and songs became hit because of the flim not mucic made the flim hit but the flim made music hit..
Asha said that RD was great but she forgot that O P N made her famous olso she forgot the great music of Naushand ali,Madan Mohan,SD,SJ,LP and many more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????
Post 512 : myk : good research on r.d.b. and rajesh roshan.
rr had the novelty aspect to his creations and i remember julie to
be a runaway hit. kishore and yesudas were the singer of this
era post 1974 and during this period rafi ji was more on tours
giving live programmes. post 1977 rafi ji came back with a bang
with many hits and manmohan desai and laxmikant pyarelal playing
a “big role” towards this.
but r.d.b’s quality of songs were going down the hill “faster” than
expected and even dev anand switched on to l & p.
the second marriage ruined r.d.b it now seems. if this would not
have happened and rdb would have been independent, his musical
scores would have had the magic rdb effect.
the second reason being he relied on kishore ji too much without
going in for new voices. the third reason which is very sound is that
listening public did “not” appreciate rdb keeping rafi ji out of his
recording rooms for a – long time.
rafi – ji had to come back and rdb realised this a bit too late in his
life.
binu nair….rafi foundation, mumbai ; binus2000@hotmail.com
ref to p 514 of mr.myk::
of course that rafi-lata duet is more close to my heart, again nice composition by rajesh roshan … roz roz aakhon tale was nice melody, but both the singers did ok-ok job, asha’s sounding outdated to me,but sounding nice in this song and amit is not so good as usually but gulzar wrote excellent shayari in both the songs…
in mujhe chhu rahi hain both rafi ji and lata ji did the excellent job….
mr.myk,
you do have a point, rajesh roshan gave many excellent songs to kishore from 1975-81 period, i like rr’s music from this period, but kk-rdb songs from 1970-75 were so good that people believe that rdb was best to kk in whole 70s, infact pancham’s most of the great songs from 1975-89 were with rafi ji, lata & asha with some good and some excellent songs with kk here and there..
i love these three duets by rr::
1.chal kahin door nikal jayen
2.thoda hai thode ki zaroorat hai
3.suniye kahiye kahiye suniye…..
infact i think he could have been the worst nightmare for the pancham, but thanks to naseer hussain & rafi, pancham bounced back with hkkn, but unfortunately rafi ji was not there in 80s so bappi did the trick against pancham that raju bhai(rr)would have done much earlier..
by the way where do you rate l-p’s “sur -sangam(1985)” from 1970-89 period, i rate this album right there at top 20 albums by l-p, iam not including 1963-69 as i think whatever they did during this period was beyond ranking, sheer magic, they bagged three awards there(in the presence of s-j), and those albums were full of melody too…
regarding “chukar mere mann ko”- its a nice song but i think not upto the level of “humein tumse pyar”, i rate humein tumse pyar by praveen sultana upto the level of songs “mohe bhool gaye sawariya” by lata & “pucho na kaise maine ” by manna. note that these three songs were composed in the same “raaga”…
also throw some light on albums like “doosra aadmi” and “khatta meetha” where raju bhai composed like “baap ka beta” … although i don’t consider him “baap ka beta” as roshan was far more melodious and divine, he is among my most fav mds, i have a huge collection of roshan with me.. but we can’t ignore or undermine raju bhai’s good work…
XXX Ji,
The songs which you mention are good but below the RDB class of 70s. Just listen to the RDB-KK combo on 70s “O mere Dil Ke Chain”; “Yeh Sham Mastani”; “Yeh Jo Muhaabut hai”; “Chingari koi Bhadke”; “Mein Shaayar Badnaam”; “Dewaana leke Aaya Hai”; etc. you will feel the difference. This class of RDB-KK was totally missing in 80s.
Mr. XXX,
“Roz Roz Aankhon Tale” is an excellent duet by Asha-Amit. Amit Kumar gave a good performance, it is definitely one of his best songs under Pancham. If only Rafi were around in 1986, he would have given a better and out of this world rendition for this song.
The lyrics for that song are by Gulzar. Rafi-Lata did one better under Gulzar and RR in 1980, “Mujhe choo rahi hai” from Swayamvar. This is a classic song with Rafi saab taking center stage.
Now you tell me, which song is better ?.
In the second paragraph of my last post, the last sentence should read as:
‘but not as consistently “and” of the same level as before.’
This is in reference to his overall work in the 80’s, he didn’t produce as much good songs as consistently and of the same level as his work pre-1980. When I refer to the 80’s I am not including the work of Rafi-RD in the 80’s which was excellent, and only including Pancham’s work in the 80’s after Rafi passed away.
Some more great songs from Pancham in the 80’s:
Jaane Kya Baat Hai – Lata (Sunny)
Sili Hawa Choo Gayi – Lata (Libaas)
Jab Hum Jawan Honge – Lata/Shabbir (Betaab)
Tu Tu Hai Wahi Dil Ne Jise – Asha/Kishore (Yeh Wada Raha)
Kabhi Palkon Pe Aansoo – Harjaee (Kishore)
Mr. XXX mentioned “Ae Ri Pawan” from Bemisal by Lata. This song would go into my Top 10 Lata-RD songs of all time, its a beautiful creation.
Mr. XXX has a point, Pancham did produce lovelies in the 80’s as well, the songs mentioned by Mr. XXX are treats, however Mr. Haldar and Rafian1 also have a point, and that is Pancham’s work in the 80’s cannot stand up to his work from 1966-1980.
Those 14 years were the best composing years of Pancham’s life, where he set new trends, and was full of creativity and experimentation. He redefined what music was all about in those 14 years. I know of some huge Pancham fans who say that 1971-79 was his best period, and some say 1969-1984, and the list varies, but in my view, 1966-1980 (as Mr. Haldar pointed out as well), were his best years. Take any of his 80’s albums post Rafi, and you will find only choice exceptions that are in the same class as a Caravan, Teesri Manzil, Amar Prem, HKKN, Ghar, Mehbooba, HRHK, PKM etc. Ofcourse its a matter of personal choice if one likes certain albums over others, but pancham’s overall work pre-1980 is considered better, and is better in my view than his overall work post 1980. This is not to say he didn’t produce good songs in the 80’s and after, he did, but not as consistently or of the same level as before.
Rafi saab’s passing away made a huge difference. Notice how Pancham in the 80’s worked with the likes of SPB, Suresh Wadkar, Amit Kumar etc. trying to find a replacement, in the process he cut his work down with Kishore (compared to before). Had Rafi been there, this combo (Rafi-RD) would have been magical. Pancham always fell back on Rafi many a times, but this time Rafi was no longer there and Pancham truly missed him, as did the whole industry and the whole world. Their gems like ‘Maine poocha chand se’ or ‘Pal do pal ka saath hamara’ were a sign of things to come.
Mr. XXX, interesting choice of Kishore’s best song in the 80’s from Kudrat. How about ‘Chookar mere man ko’ from Yaarana, I would rate this higher than the Kudrat song, even though Kishore sings in falsetto, I still love this song. RR was inspired from an old bengali number here and created a gem of a song, one of KK’s best.
From 1975 onwards, I feel Rajesh Roshan was Kishore’s best MD, and not RDB. Take a pick from Julie, Baaton Baaton Mein, Doosra Aadmi, Des Pardes, Kunwara Baap, Priyatama, Khatta Meetha, Swami etc. The KK songs from these films and more are better overall than most of what Pancham composed for KK 1974 onwards. RR also was one of Rafi’s best latter day MD’s as well, we have a lot of gems from this combo too including the best triad ever made in hfm history (imo) with Kishore, Lata and Rafi “Chal kahin door nikal jaaye” (Doosra Aadmi).
One more aspect while I’m on Rajesh Roshan, he seemed to open up the voices of every singer, and fully explore their whole range. Kishore, Rafi, Lata, Asha and others all sounded different when singing for him compared to others. Ofcourse Rafi-saab sounded different under many composers, that was his genius.
In fact 1975 onwards, I feel Pancham composed better for Rafi than for Kishore. Look at the sampling, we have songs from Mukti, HKKN, TBT, Shaan, Bundalbaaz, Bulandi, Devta, Abdullah, Phandebaaz etc.
Post 1975, the Pancham-KK combo wasn’t the same as earlier, with only selected gems (as you mentioned earlier in one of your posts too) from Mehbooba, Manzil, Ghar, Agar Tum Na Hote, Saagar, Kudrat etc.
haldar ji,
try to listen these songs from 80s too, music by pancham,these were better than the most of the trash from 80s…
1.bhor bhaye panchhi dhun ye sunaye… lata… aanchal(1980)…
2.aey ri pawan dhoondhe kise tera mann chalte chalte…lata…bemisaal(1982)…
3.hawa ye prabhati….lata…subh kaamna(1983)
anmol ji , rafian1 ji & haldar ji
don’t you think that these four songs were better than the bappi’s songs and will always be featured in the very best of 80s, they were as classy as popular::
1.maine poocha chand se(abdullah-1980)
2.humein tumse pyar kitna(kudrat-1981)
3.tujhse naraaz nahi zindagi(masoom-1983)
4.mera kuch saaman tumhare pas(ijaazat-1987)….
kishore sung his best song from 80s under pancham::
1.humein tumse pyar.. kudrat(1981)…
amit kumar sung his career best duet under pancham from 80s::
2.roz roz aakhon tale… jeeva(1986)
lata also sung many wonderful solos under pancham in 80s, to name a few
1.tujhse naraaz nahi zindagi….masoom(1983)
2.tune o rangile kaisa jaadu kiya…. kudrat(1981)
3.jahan pe savera ho … basera(1981)
ref to p 502::
i never said or considered 80s as a great era, for me golden era ending up with heavenly bliss of sdb & mm, but there were few excellent songs from 80s as well,
haldar ji, try to listen these songs of rdb, hope you will enjoy these songs::
1.humein tumse pyar kitna… praveen sultana…kudrat(1981)
2.aur kya ehde wafa….. suresh wadekar…sunny(1984)
3.huzoor is kadar bhi na itrake chaliye… bhupi & suresh… masoom(1983)
4.hum jab ek sath hain fir…. rafi ji and asha… bulandi(1980)
and also try to listen sur-sangam(1985,by lp) & lekin(1990,by hridayanath)… songs from these movies will not disappoint you at all, and yes i agree with you regarding nikaah & umraao jaan, both were nice albums from 80s. but i also rate ijazat & libaas very highly because of their freshness, melody & excellent shayari….jagjeet singh’s arth was also an excellent album…
Ref to 504 & 500
I think we are just wasting blogs just for one silly issue of KK singing one song for Naushad. This one song sung by KK is a duet (not a solo) sung in 1975 when Naushad had already retired. If Naushad has composed approx 500 to 600 songs in his entire career span of 4 decades, this one song of KK forms 0.15 % which almost equivalent to zero. The song doesn’t list in terms of best of KK, so success is all zero. In order words if Naushad used KK in 40s, 50s or 60s, possibly he could have failed as a composer.
Rafi fans speak as per actual facts, there is no need for us to trash other singers. One should learn have a big heart to digest facts. 🙂
In the mean lets continue discussing Pancham.
Post 503-Anmol Singh ji
Well said.I too think that those songs especially the duet ‘Aawaz di hain’ is an out of the world song.Many times I wished if it was sung by Rafi saab and Lataji.One of my alltime fav songs which takes us to another world forgetting all our pain for few minutes.
Another Bappi song which I liked is ‘Pyar chahiye muje jeene keliye’ sung by himself.’Apnom mein menin begana'(Kishore Da) was also a superb song post 80.
manish kumar and abey john are same persons?? or they share their pcs??
ref 503
anmol singh,
i too had read my prior post and wondered what state my mind was in 😀 it happens 😀 i don’t think i’m repetitive. anyway, it just embarasses me when music fans tell me that the rafi site trashes other singers. i shouldn’t have to hear that. you stated that the fact is kishore never sang for naushad. i just gleefully (only for fun, not prove anything) contradict your commonly mistaken notion: they did do one song together. anyway, i’m just utterly exhausted from the recent posting activity (hahahah!) and need a break. once i’m rested, i will surely reply. in the meanwhile, be happy 😀
Abey John
Ref – 500
You repeat the same thing again & again. I was expecting some thing different. 🙂
Halder Ji Ref 502
Perhaps 80s was the era of the rise of many Ghazal singers. Jagjit Singh was one of them. Requesting u to listen to some of his best works in film – “Prem Geet”, “Saath Saath” & “Arth”. The ghazals sung by Jagjit under Kuldip Singh are outstanding.
Certainly Bhappi stands no where close to Pancham. But it is difficult to believe Bhappi’s score for “Aitbaar” – Kisi Nazar Ko Intezaar Aaj Bhi Hai & Awaaz Di Hai Ashique Nazar Ne. Both are sung by Bhupinder, one is a duet with Asha. Possibly this can be considered Bhappi’s career best work.
ref post 493:
xxx, I spent a lot of time listening to pancham’s compositions in the 80s. At the outset, let me confess that I don’t much about the post-80 period, so I may be wrong in my analysis. I am not aware of many of the songs that you have mentioned in your post. But I randomly selected around 30 of rd’s compositions from the 80’s sung by various singers (KK, Asha, Lata, Shailendra, Md Aziz, Shabbir Kumar, etc.) and I have to say that I was very disappointed. Most of them are pedestrian. I also listened to some of the songs you’ve referred to (e.g., izazat, libaas, etc.); they are good but nothing more.
In my opinion, some of asha’s best songs in that decade were for umrao jaan (md: khayyam). I am totally baffled as to why pancham’s fans fail to mention her songs in that film; those were outstanding ghazals. I’d also mention Ravi’s fantastic score for Nikaah; those salma agha songs are so refreshing compared to most of the trash from the 80s.
Based on rafian1’s recommendation, I also listened to yesudas’ song from haisiyat. That song is definitely better than most of the other songs I listened to. To my surprise, I found that boppi da has scored some great tunes for yesudas. I never thought I’d live to see the day when boppi da sounds better than pancham (now I know what anmol ji means). Jokes apart, there’s another song composed by Jaidev that I really like: seene me jalan (sung by Suresh Wadkar).
I grew up with pancham’s bangla tunes in the 60s. And I loved his compositions in hfm during the 1966-80 period. That is what I’d like to remember him for. Now it’s time to listen to Pankaj Mullick, K. C. Dey and Saigal.
Dear RDB fan.
It is not my opinion that music quality went down in late 70/80s.If you are able to read the screen weekly(Older editions) there was a series called ‘melody in music’ where they evaluated the hfm music year by year from 50s to 90s.It statistically showed the quality of music began to decrease after the year 1974.So don’t jump on me and see and read the anaysis from music analyst first.
Go through my post and you can see that I did n’t criticise any MD but I criticised those who consider the thrashes from RDB as gems(Of course there were thrashes from LP/Bapi,but their fans are few and they never says that those songs are gems).So see the things on a music fan’s perspective than a blind RDB fan.
Dear Rafi fans.Download the ALbum Tere sur or mere geet(live) here.
http://www.4shared.com/dir/5622357/a9e0a26d/Rafi-Mere_Sur_Tere_Geet.html