Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?
This article is written by Mr.H.V.Guru Murthy.
A regular browser to web site mohdrafi.com, having gone through the letters of Rafi lovers would assume that R D Burman did not utilize Rafi properly, instead he preferred Kishore Kumar. Because of this reason, Rafi Fans are still upset with RDB even though he passed away a decade back.
Yes, it is true that RDB preferred KK over Rafi during early seventies. For that matter, which Music Director or Actor or Producer or Director will not have his preference. It was well known that Raj Kapoor always preferred Mukesh, Manoj Kumar preferred Mukesh or Mahendra Kapoor, B.R.Chopra films had Mahendra, MD Ravi also had plenty of songs with Mahendra so also O.P after he broke with Rafi. Similarly OP always had either Asha or Geetha Dutt and never Lata. Salil also used all other Singers. Director Subba Rao insisted on Mukesh for SAATHI even though the hero was Rajendra Kumar and MD Naushad, two Rafi Fans. Even Kalyanji Anandji had many films with Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and KK even though Rafi was instrumental in their raise through JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE, AAMNE SAAMNE, etc. LP, by all means Rafi Bhakts, used KK regularly in the early seventies even for Rafi heroes like Jeetendra, Dharmendra, etc. SJ also switched over to KK in movies like MAIN SUNDAR HOON, DIL DAULAT DUNIYA, KAL AAJ AUR KAL, etc. Of course, the music standard came down a notch or two in that period. But, well, it is their prerogative to have whomsoever they wanted though I am sure in heart of heart, why even openly, they would have admitted the superiority of Rafi over all other Singers. Similarly, RDB also used KK for almost all his movies in the early seventies as perhaps he had some special chemistry with him.
However, let us not forget that RDB used Rafi extensively during late sixties as his main playback singer right from the first movie. He gave hit music with Rafi in TEESRI MANZIL, NAQLI NAWAAB, CARAVAN, PYAAR KA MAUSAM, THE TRAIN, ABHILASHA, ADHIKAR, RATON KA RAAJA, etc. Later during late seventies he returned to Rafi and gave hits like SHAAN, HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, ABDULLAH, ZAMANE KO DIKHANA HAI, etc. In between, he had Rafi in CHANDI SONA qawali with Mannadey (Ek Shok Hasina Se), YADON KI BAARAT (Title song and who can forget the duet with Asha Chura Liya Hai Tumne), DIL KA BAADSHAH (this Raj Kumar starrer had all songs by Rafi), THE GREAT GAMBLER (Raftasa Mera Naam), SHEHZADA (Solo Tere Attaroo and duet with Lata Kaahe Ko Bulaya), etc.
If a person cannot appreciate the greatness of Rafi, then it can be safely concluded that the person does not have a sense of music. Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc. RD would have definitely known the great qualities of Rafi, the Singer. Just because he did not use Rafi extensively as one would expect, let us not degrade this MD who gave us some good songs in CHANDAN KA PALNA, PADOSAN, HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA, MERE JEEVAN SAATHI, AJNABEE, AMAR PREM, SANAM TERI KASAM, BHOOT BANGLA, BAHARON KE SAPNE (Rafi solo Zamane Ne Maare), PARICHAY, KINAARA, APNA DESH, ZAHREELA INSAAN, RAMPUR KA LAKSHAMAN (Pyaar Ka Samay with Lata, KK and Rafi), 1942 – A LOVE STORY, KATI PATANG to certain extent, etc. though he gave some very mediocre music in films like DEEWAR, SHOLAY, KITAAB, ZAKHMEE, RAFOO CHAKKAR, NAMKEEN, DHARAM KARAM and BIWI O BIWI (so un-RK film like), etc. so many forgettable movies as for as music was concerned.
The irony of RDB was either he gave good music or petered out to a very mediocre music in so many films. I read some where that Shashi Kapoor called RD as National Anthem Music Director. In those days, theatres used to play National Anthem at the end of the movie and the Hall doors used to be shut till the completion of the Anthem. As soon as the Anthem used to commence, our in-disciplined people used to rush to the Hall Door and wait for the door opening. Similarly, whenever RDB songs commenced in most of the movies, people used to rush to toilet.
Still, it is not fair that we use harsh and sometimes, un-parliamentary language against any body if they differ with our views. We cannot forget the contribution of all these MDs, Heroes, Singers, Directors, etc. in making the Indian Film Music so rich.
ref p 591 & 592
mr.myk,
yes of course sj made the best use of accordion, infact they had the best in this business, V. Balsara, Goody Seervai, Enoch Daniels … all of them played wonderful accordion for them, and of course pancham’s madal was his signature precussion instrument, homi mullan did the great job on madal for pancham, how about “tabla” and “pakhawaj” player bhawani shankar from pancham’s group?? now a days you will find him with none other than pandit jasraj… and what abt that great flute player from sj’s camp panna lal ghosh,(hari prasad later joined pancham) …. s-j and pancham bagged almost all top class musicians, of course these musicians assisted others too like naushad,salil,dada but their impact with sj was more.. what about someone like great ali akbar khan who played sarod for s-j and blessed taaleem to pancham.. s-j had van shipley as hawaiin guitar player and pancham had bhupi, and both were ace guitarists, infact shankar was always known for his generosity towards musicians, he also denied the music industry when later decided to cut his orchestral strength…
other than sebestian and dattaram.., Enoch Daniels, Uttam Singh, Dheeraj Kumar were also there in s-j camp as an arrangers, please throw some light on them…
now regarding orchestra of sj and rd, i personally like sj’s orchestra , very well balanced and embellished orchestra, pancham’s orchestratin was nice too but he used to keep his rhythm very loud, he emphasized on rhythm more, pancham’s violins were cool but sj were way ahead in this aspect, sj’s violins were class, always complementing the tune e.g. “kaun hai jo sapno mein aaya” … sj’s and mm’s violins were really class …
on the other hand pancham was rhythm and guitar expert, he also used trumpet, trombone and saxophone really well, he very well exploited the lords and his ace assistant manohari who occasionally also played other instruments for pancham, like mandolin in “tum bin jaoon kahan” and flute in “kaanchi re”.. regarding rd’s reply- they were never fitting, primary reason was wrong selection of singers ..
regarding rr, sorry but i don’t know much about his team members neither he himself revealed much anywhere but his orchestration was nice too, he never kept his rhythm loud like pancham, his use of violins was excellent too, yes you are right his violins sometimes give the feel of sj too,and ya if you noticed that rr’s orchestra never outweighed the singer(but it happened sometimes with sj,rdb and l-p ), rr’s orchestra was soothing…
Re. Post # 595: KKs voice never suited a bhajan or ghazal. Whereas Rafi Saheb was an allrounder world know this fact.
Ref – 594.
->RDB kishore combo beats rdb rafi many times.
For Mr.Anil Pedgaonkar:
You seem to be confused about a lot of things. For one thing your idea of high pitch is far off-target. The highest note in ‘Mere naina….’ would be about d flat in the third octave, a note reached by any ametuer singer (myself included) without any hassles. Rafisahab’s range was d flat in the 4th octave (an entire ovtave higher), hope I’m making myself clear. By the way i like this song a lot and the way Kishoreda rendered it. However, having heard SPB sir singing it live, I’m totally convinced that this song would have reached an alltogether different level in the hands of Rafisahab… for one thing he would have sung it in a higher scale.. he would also have improvised a lot at the higher parts (ab sochoon nahin phooleein…) as his wont.
You also seem to want to brand Rafi sahab as someone who could sing only ‘khoya khoya chand..’. May be you need to listen to more songs.. before jumping into conclusions.. Several well-informed gentleman have already discussed about the various kinds of songs Rafisahab has sung in his illustrious career and I don’t wish to go into those yet again. Rafisahab is beyond any branding/tagging and if you want to brand him anyway, I suggest you may think about this one- ‘the most complete singer ever’.
By the way I wanted to reply to your similar posts in Kishoreda’s site but the moderator never let me an entry.
REF : 594,WHAT IS THERE AFTER THE 5 NOS.OF RDB & KK.HERE IS ALIST OF RDB KK COMBINE PLEASE MENTION ANY ONE GEM FROM THIS LIST.
1. SAA BHI KABHI BAHU THI
2 BADA KABUTAR
3 CHHALIA
4 DO PHOOL
5 DOUBLE CROSS
6 HEERA PANNA
7 HIFAZAT
8 JAISE KO TAISA
9 JHEEL KE US PAAR
10 JOSHILA
11 MR.ROMEO
12 NAFRAT
13 5 DUSHMAN
14 RAJA RANI
15 RICKSHWALA
16 SHAREEF BADMASH
17 DIL DIWANA
18 DOOSRI SITA
19 GOONJ
20 IMAAN
21 ISHK ISHK ISHK
22 MADHOSH
23 MANORANJAN
24 SHAITAAN
25 TRIMURTI
26 ZAHREELA INSAAN
27 DEEWAR
28 KALA SONA
29 DHARAM KARAM
30 KHEL KHEL MEIN
31 RAAJA
32 WARRANT
33 BALIKA BADHU
34 KHALIFA
35 MAH CHOR
36 CHALA MURARAI HERO BAN NE
37 CHALTA PURZA
38 CHANDI SONA
39 KARAM
40 CHOR HO TO AISA
41 HEERA LAL PANNA LAL
42 NAYA DAUR
43 BHALA MANUSH
44 SALAAM MEMSAAB
45 AANCHAL
46 BULUNDI
47 ALIBABA AUR CHAILIS CHOR
48 DHAN DAULAT
49 GUNEHGAAR
50 QATIL KAUN
51 PHIR WOHI RAAT
52 TAKKAR
53 BIWI O BIWI
54 DAULAT
55 DHUAN
56 GEHRA ZAKHAM
57 GHUNGROO KI AWAAZ
58 JAIL YATRA
59 KACHCHE HEERE
60 MANGALSUTRA
61 RAKSHA
62 SATTE PE SATTA
63 AAMNE SAAMNE
64 ADHURA AADMI
65 ASHAANTI
66 BMISAAL
67 DARD KA RISHTA
68 GANGA MERI MAA
69 SWAMI DADA
70 YEH TO KAMAL HO GAYA
71 AAN AUR SHAAN
72 BINDIYA CHAMKEGI
73 BOXER
74 FARISHTA
75 KAUN KAISE
76 MAHAAN
77 MAIN AWARA HOON
78 MAZDOOR
79 PUKAR
80 RANG BIRANGI
81 ROMANCE
82 SHUBHKAAMNA
83 ANAND AUR ANAND
84 ANDHAR BAHAR
85 AWAAZ
86 BHEEMA
87 DUNIYA
88 HUM DONO
89 HUM HAIN LAJAWAB
90 JAGIR
91 JHUTA SACH
92 KARISHMA
93 YEH DESH
94 ZAMEEN AASMAAN
95 AAR PAAR
96 ALAG ALAG
97 AWARA BAAP
98 BOND 303
99 EK SE BHALE DO
100 HUM NAUJAWAN
101 LAVA
102 RAHI BADAL GAYE
103 RAM TERE KITNE NAAM
104 OONCHE LOG
105 SHIVA KA INSAAF
106 ANOKHA RISHTA
107 JEEVA
108 PALYA KHAN
109 SHATRU
110 APNE APNE
111 BELAGAAM
112 DACAIT
113 HIFAZAT
114 INAAM DUS HAZAAR
115 ITIHAAS
116 MARDON WALI BAAT
117 AAG SE KHELENGE
118 DOST
119 BAHURANI
120 JOSHILAY
121 JURRAT
122 CHOR PE MOR
123 DUSHMAN
SOME MORE MOVIES I COULD NOT ADD.PROBLEM IS BARING MAXIMUM 25 SONGS OF RDB & KK THERE IS NOTHING AND ATLEAST ANOTHER 100 MOVIES OF RDB I AM NOT ADDING AS IT NOTHING BUT WASTAGE OF SPACE.
MY REQUEST TO RDB KK FANS .PLEASE UPDATE FROM THE ABOVE LIST & COMPARE THE ABOVE MENTIONED MOVIES WITH SJ,OPN,NAUSHAD SAAB & MADAN MOHAN SAAB AND THEN YOU WILL KNOW WHAT IS THE POSTION OF RDB.
a)anil pedgaonkar : u are at the ‘wrong address’ sir. B) gate crashing in to a mohd rafi site and writing nonsence is deplorable. c) Kishore Kumar ji sang chingari koi badhake : very badly, with his thick voice attacking the inner lining of the ears very badly and if rafi ji would have sung it, it would have been a masterpiece like guide songs.
lastly, i compliment dada burman for giving three masterpieces to rafi saaheb in the film guide and not to his favourite singer kk.
we have heard ur parrot like comments before too and may i say that without the ‘grand lobby’ of the seventies, KK era would have finished much earlier along with rajesh khanna. r.d.b-asha-kk team ensured that rdb pack his bags and go home to the jet bunglow – alone earlier than expected.
binu nair.
RDB kishore combo beats rdb rafi many times. who can forget the classics ” ho mere dilki chain”, aanewala pal, rimzim gire sawan , pyar diwana hota hai mastana hota hai, mere naina sawan bhado 9 deep voice of kishore exceeled at high pitch in shivranjani raag the song is poular even today and impacrts in kishore’s voice), tum bin jau kaha, kahana hai aaj tumse pahil bar, muze aur jeeneki chahat na hoti, o manzi re. ach and every song is a gem and has much more variety than above mentined songs of rafi. aanewala pal is a type never sang by rafi. people who say rafi can sing all types bhajans etc should note this. if u note rdb rafi songs are mostly light ( kya hua tera vaada is light) as compared to ” chingari koi bhadake” and mostly only of romantic typr. the mere naina sawan bhado variety is sang only by lata and kishore( lata had numerous numersof this type). YEh shyam mastani hollow beats many of the rafi numbers. the best rd rafi song is “tumne muze dekha” and “chura liya hai ” in duets asha score over rasfi. instead of creating magic in “maine pucha chandse” like khoya khoya chand ( rafi’s best song) rafi disappoints with an old voice. Yesudas or kishore would have done justice to it. in fact rdB and lp never gave any songs to YEsudas as he was thret to rafi as a second singer. true pyarela prefered rafi and so “madan mohan ” also roshan. but favorite singer of RR was Kishore. almost every grat tune is to kishore . who can forget immortal rendition of “kab tak andhere manko chalenge” here there is almost no background music . the song simply sails on kishore’s soft soothing voice. almost all RR greats are with kishore to name few ” chookar mere manko, ik rasta hai zindagi, dil kya kare, thoda hai thode ki, sara jamana, koi roko na ” and all with variety of moods. The only really grat rr rafi song is ” logo ka dil agar yedil jeet hi lena ho to ” where op style rhythm is used by rr. It is a fact thatpost 70 kishore was used for main songs by all composers except for lp and KA ( initially). But lp have failed to produce gems with rafi. howsoever they may prefer rafi yet their most offbeat gems are with kishore . Also most offbeat gems of rd are with kishore . kya hua tera vada may be popular but hardly a gem . chura liya hai was a gem. kishore sang bhajans. in fact in a movie where lp used rafi for many songs they used kishore for bajan “muze prem ka rog laga!”. infact bhajan singer anup jalota’s style is lot based on Kishore. he himself said it in interview. kishore sang ghazals as well( mere mehbbob kayamat hogi dil aaj shayar hai) and had electrifying characterstic kishore taan “aankhoe humne aapke sapane sajaye hai ” duet with lata ( khayyam composer) and jab bhi koi kangana bole pyal khamnak jaye ( RD burman). kishore wanted to do an lp of bhajans of kabir privately just bfore he died. Also ghazal is famous for words there is lesser scope for music qawwali Is group singing. rarely quawwali’s form offbeat scores. kishore expressed “hume tumse pyar kitana” in a soft voice and specialpronounciation . in fact lata said she cant excel the impact of kishore’s rendition ( which was first) and suggested RD burman to get the mujra recoreded form classicla singer “parveen sultana” to match the effect of soft voice with classical nuances. no other singer in india has sung a full song whoose other version is sung by classical singer. The voice of Kishore in songs like “kab tak andhere chalate rahenge”, “yeh jeevan hai” zindagi ka safar is unimitable and immortal. such types of songs are not listed in types above . his singing for “mere sang sang aaya teri yadoka mela ” is modern and has ditict style
kishore sang bhajans. in fact in a movie where lp used rafi for many songs they used kishore for bajan “muze prem ka rog laga!”. infact bhajan singer anup jalota’s style is lot based on Kishore. he himself said it in interview. kishore sang ghazals as well( mere mehbbob kayamat hogi dil aaj shayar hai) and had electrifying characterstic kishore taan “aankhoe humne aapke sapane sajaye hai ” duet with lata ( khayyam composer) and jab bhi koi kangana bole pyal khamnak jaye ( RD burman). kishore wanted to do an lp of bhajans of kabir privately just bfore he died. Also ghazal is famous for words there is lesser scope for music qawwali Is group singing. rarely quawwali’s form offbeat scores. kishore expressed “hume tumse pyar kitana” in a soft voice and specialpronounciation . in fact lata said she cant excel the impact of kishore’s rendition ( which was first) and suggested RD burman to get the mujra recoreded form classicla singer “parveen sultana” to match the effect of soft voice with classical nuances. no other singer in india has sung a full song whoose other version is sung by classical singer. The voice of Kishore in songs like “kab tak andhere chalate rahenge”, “yeh jeevan hai” zindagi ka safar is unimitable and immortal. such types of songs are not listed in types above . his singing for “mere sang sang aaya teri yadoka mela ” is modern and has ditict style
I would like to add that both SJ’s and RD’s orchestra’s were very modern, and they both popularized fusion music a great way. Both SJ and RD combined the best of the east and west and if SJ were the pioneers in western music and took it to great heights, RD also took western music to great heights too. Then when RR zoomed in, he also brought a new style of fusion music which was excellent. All three, SJ, RD and RR brought something new to HFM, as did many other composers as well.
Mr XXX, who in your opinion had the better orchestra, S-J or RD ?. How would you rate RR’s orchestra ?.
Ref Post 590:
Mr XXX,
You brought up the interesting point about the orchestra members of both SJ and RD. These musicians definitely were a part of two magical camps. You have asked me a very tough question, and my answer is I think they performed well under both camps. SJ’s orchestra was purely magic, one just has to listen to their music to know that they were rare talents, and they pioneered many of the techniques and finesse that others would emulate later on, including Pancham. Pancham’s favourite musicians besides his father were SJ. The story goes that Jaikishan called Pancham and congratulated him on the score for TM, and Pancham was so happy and kept on telling everyone that Jaikishan called him and gave him compliments. SJ also had probably the finest arranger of them all in Sebastien, and they had Dattaram as well who was an expert rhythm master. How about the likes of Goodi Servai, Kawas and Kersi Lord, Abdul Karim, Manohari etc. who all played wonderful under S-J. They were truly the orchestra masters and I think S-J used much more instruments and made them more popular than RD did. For example the accordion, no one used it better than S-J, then the transicord, saxophone, bongo’s, congo’s, tabla, dholak, guitar all became famous under S-J. Also, counter-melody became prominent under S-J as well as the use of bass lines.
Moving on to RD’s orchestra, this was also in a class of its own. I think RD made the guitar and the bass guitar very prominent and people like Tony Vaz flourished in his orchestra. RD’s bass lines were more prominent, and although SJ pioneered the use of the guitar, I think RD took it to new heights, otherwise many of the instruments he used, SJ had already used and made popular. The one instrument that RD made popular was the madal, which was his trademark instrument for his rhythm section. If S-J had Dattaram who used many great and innovative rhythm patterns, RD had Maruti Keer who also was a master at rhythm and had assisted Dada Burman as well.
You are right, Jaikishan and S-J as a team won many competitions in reply to RD’s scores in the late sixties to early seventies. Also, RD had a chance to work with the newer technology, whereas S-J did not and had they I am sure they would have come out with flyfing colours. It doesn’t matter theough, because S-J scores sound so clean and clear with the tech of that time that they didn’t need to use the tech that came out in the late seventies. It would have been interesting to see SJ scores in stereo recording.
A reply to Caravan would have been interesting, had Jai lived and S-J kept their banners, somewhere in those 35 odd productions we would have probably seen a reply to Caravan as well as HRHK. SJ could have continued their Dev Anand streak of films, and we also would have seen replies to YKB, HKKN and other RD films. How about looking at it the other way ?. Did RD produce fitting results in reply to SJ albums ?. What do you say Mr. XXX ?.
Indeed RR produced many of the finest male duets, as you mentioned. I also found his orchestra of those days to be in a class of its own. Mr. XXX, have you heard of Amar Haldipur ?. He used to play the guitar and also arrange RR’s music. I have also heard that Basu Chaterjee from RD’s camp also used to help arrange RR’s music too. Do you know who else used to play in his orchestra ?. I have always found RR to be in the SJ mould when it came to his violins, they had this symphony like charm, as if a symphony conductor was at work. An example, check out the song “Pal bhar mein yeh kya hogaya” by Lata from Swami and look at how the violins have been used and at what scale. There hasn’t been that much written about who used to play in RR’s orchestra, but it would really be interesting to find out who did. RR also was creative when it came to using different instruments in his music, just like SJ and Pancham.
I haven’t heard a great deal about the relationship between RDB and RR, although it should have been good considering as you mentioned their fathers were great friends. It would be nice to know if they had a similar friendship.
ref to p 589 of mr.myk,
i am totally agree that sdb composed some of the finest sad songs, what about “tere bin soone”? and his sad songs with other great singers– “jaayen to jaayen kahan” & “bharam teri wafao ka” with talat, “teri duniya mein jine se” and “jane wo kaise log the ” with hemant, “poocho na maine kaise rain bitayi” with manna and “dukhi mann mere” with kishore …
now coming back to rr, his another achievement is some of the finest male duets, you mentioned about his rafi-kishore duets in other forum, how about kishore-amit duets?? “roll roll bhakuni sa” from khatta meetha or “aaj bhari mehfil ” from des pardes, earlier i mentioned “roz roz aakhon tale” by pancham as amit’s career best duet, what about “na bole tum na maine kuch kaha” by rr, its probably the second best duet for him..
could you tell us something regarding the relationship shared by the rdb and rr, i mean their fathers were great friends, infact roshan was great fan of songs like “hum bekhudi mein tumko” & “thandi hawayen”, also pancham once mentioned in radio that— “roshan sahab mujhse aksar kaha karte the ki pancham apni ye kala sambhal ke rakhoge to bahut aage jaoge”.
means their relations were good but i never heard pancham or rr complementing each other in public .. infact rr was not even there in the funeral of rdb, ravindra jain was there and paid his part of tribute as well but i think rr was not there…
now coming back to pancham again, we all know that all the ace musicians like uttam singh, kersi lord, bujji lord(vibrophones & rhythm players ), kawas lord, manohari,shiv-hari, dilip nayik,tony vaz who used to be in sj camp later shifted to the rdb camp, what do you think, under whom they performed better?? i mean pancham also used these musicians really well(from tm-hkkn), but i think jaikishan won the competition many times, true that rdb composed trendsetting duets from tm, but reply frm sj(aaj kal tere mere, badan pe sitare) is more famous and became signature tunes for shammi, jaikishan composed “zindagi ek safar” pancham replied “chala jata hun” but earlier one is signature tune for kishore, jaikisha composed “jane kahan gaye wo din” in raag shivranjini and pancham composed “mere naina sawan bhado” in same raag but mukesh’s rendition is better than kishore’s .. any guess, what would have been reply to “carvan”, “hrhk” and “hkkn”.. tue that pancham lost many a times but in that race he composed many gems, “gulabi aakhen” is a one of them……….
Mr. XXX,
“Naazon Ke Pale” is a great song by Talat and Burman Dada, it has a great tune and the music has a nice flow and complements Talat’s voice and singing well. However I would rate “Zamane Ne Maare” higher because of Rafi-saab and the magic he brought to that song. Also, Rafi’s rendition has more punch compared to Talat’s, but both songs are excellent. The violins in the Talat song are similar to Rafi’s song, in the sense that they both have the pathos effect. Pancham surely picked up traits from this father when composing such songs. After all his father was a master at the “sad song”, who can forget “Din dhal jaaye haaye”, or a ghazal with a touch of sadness “Kahin bekhayal hokar”, and then “Hum bekhudi mein tumko”, or a “Dekhi zamane ki yaari”, all these songs brought to life by the one and only King Rafi.
I totally agree, those Rafi songs you mentioned and many other Rafi songs composed by Pancham were the life time achievements for Pancham. How about something like “Tumne Mujhe Dekha”, did Pancham ever create a tune like that later on, or with anyone else ?, definitely not, and he could only create something so memorable because he had Rafi by his side to sing it.
RR was indeed a prodigious talent, and his best work was indeed with Rafi and Kishore where he came out with masterpiece creations. After 1981 he did produce gems, right until now, but overall it never matched up or has matched up to his earlier work. He left a mark in HFM with outstanding numbers with not only the legendary voices (Rafi, Lata, Kishore, Asha) but also with other singers as well. For example, Usha Mangeshkar’s biggest hit to this day remains “Mungda Mungda” from Inkaar, and he gave her a chance in other songs as well. How about Anwar, he sang great songs in Janta Hawaldar and other films, and then Suman Kalyanpur also got great songs from RR. Mukesh has sung a few songs for him too, but I think he didn’t get a chance to work with him more because Mukesh passed away in 1976. Had Mukesh lived, I am sure RR would have come up with some more excellent songs for him as well. Also, I feel, that the earlier work RR did was enough to make him the last great of the previous era. He brought a unique freshness to HFM that has lasted till date. He was also a trend-setter, and very innovative and creative.
Here is what RR had to say in an interview:
“If I have one regret today, it is that my favourite singer Rafi is not there and Lata is not singing much.”
ref to p 583
mr.myk,
i think songs like “zamane ne maare”, “tumhe dekha hai maine”, “vaadiya mera daaman”, “pyar hai ik nishaan kadmo ka” were the life time achievements for the pancham,…
the song “zamane ne maare” is a great song, you are right, pancham’s use of violins is beautiful, what i think about this song is pancham recreats the magic of his father’s “naazon ke pale(superbly delivered by talat ), the mood of both the songs is almost similar, by the way which song do you think is better??? “naazon ke pale” or “zamane ne maare”, or how would you compare them?…
rafi’s expressions in “zamane ne maare ” is more than excellent, something which other singers can’t attain … antras of this song are nice too…
regarding “aag hai lagi hui”, its a nice high pitch song, rr’s use of violins is superb, and look at how well rafi ji delivered those dialogs in between, and that marching band interlude is also nice, rr was really talented one, i don’t know what went wrong with him post 1981, but his songs with rafi and kishore from those six years were really nice …
Ref. 579 – BTW, What’s this word “PAOTYAS”.
ref. post 579
what do you think? only kishoreans are indian? if you are thinking that Rafi Sahab was muslim and who ever support him must be pakistani, you are really mentally sick. Please go through post 538 of Mr. Sanjay and obey his sincerely advise to go for medical check up. May god help you.
I for one who is also among the millions of Rafi Sahaab’s fans feel let down by R.D. Burman because of his forgetting that it was the magic of Rafi Sahaab that had lifted CHHOTE NAWAB which was RDB’s first musical direction credited to him. Who could have put that that child-like innocence and pleasant lisping of ILLAAHI TU SUN LE HAMAALI DUA with heart-rending pathos.
Now the question is why did RDB ingore Rafi Sahaab altogether in a certain phase when the former was rising and the latter had cut down his recordings for reasons which form a totally different subject-matter. The answer to this too harsh and will, perhaps, never be written at least for the next ten years for reasons that are obvious. But some other facts are not lost on Rafi Sahaab’s fans, viz., the emergence of the axis of RDB-ASHA-KK-RK and the rampant commercialisation of music industry in the Seventies. Only a stalwart of the stature of Rafi Sahaab could have faced this terrible storm sheerly by the fact that there was no greater playback singer than him. Nor will there be for at least a thousand years. It’s only when the RDB music got repetitive, boring, and music directors like Madan Mohan and Laxmikant-Pyarelal firmly stood by Rafi Sahaab, that RDB came back to him and with success. Anyway, this is a long story.
This question is also indirectly answered by the legacy we have today. For example, in one of RKB TV shows, Asha Bhonsle categorically stated that for filmy music she listens only to Kishore Kumar (and of course her sister Lata Mangeshkar)and no one else. While there may have been certain reasons for her saying so, and she has the right to choose whom to listen to, yet at least I’m baffled by her assertion and hurt too, especially since she has sung so many beautiful duets along with Rafi Sahaab. How could she have forgotten them? In short, for a discerning viewer it is evident that the leftover of the Seventies still continues in the 21st century against the Legendary Rafi Sahaab.
Nasir
Would like to add to my previous sentence. It should read as:
“Absolutely right, the RD-KK combo never produced songs that could match the calibre of a “Barbaad-e-Mohabbat†or a “Rang Aur Noor Ki Baraatâ€, or a “Caravan Guzar Gayaâ€, and countless other songs.”
Mr. XXX,
Absolutely right, the RD-KK combo never produced songs that could match the calibre of a “Barbaad-e-Mohabbat” or a “Rang Aur Noor Ki Baraat”, or a “Caravan Guzar Gaya”.
What is your opinion on “Zamane ne maare jawan kaise kaise” from Baharon Ke Sapne ?. I think this is one of Pancham’s best compositions, very under-rated, but it definitely beats a lot of the best of RD-KK songs. Rafi-saab with his magical voice makes this song a masterpiece, the music is fantastic, Pancham has employed the violins in a grand way. The rhythm is also great adding to the haunting effect of the song.
Since we were discussing RR, what about “Aag Hai Lagi Hui” from Swarg Narak ?. This is another gem with great music, effective use of the violins, and check out the interlude where RR employs “marching band” music. Rafi-saab is ofcourse outstanding, adding so many emotions to the song. A fine creation from the RR-Rafi combo. Please also write your views on this song as well.
An appeal to all Rafi (and obviously music) lovers.
It has become a favorite pastime for several guys to wander into our midst and throw in casual observations, just to create sensationalism and I don’t know what else… Let’s simply ignore them and continue with our healthy and enlightening discussions… pls.. let’s not respond to these people, for that’s what exactly they are looking for.
my previous link is not working i think so here is link to the barbaad-e-mohabbat..
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eXzUvvbbN7U
ref to p 575::
rdb-kishore & bappi-kishore were made for each other to deteriorate the hfm, rate of qualtiy songs of rdb-kishore is not more than 50%, however with bappi its not more than 10%. infact rdb performed better with others, his quality rate with rafi,lata,mukesh,buhpinder is more than 90% … his rate wd asha is good too..
rdb-kishore golden period was 1970-75, they gave many golden numbers there but still i don’t think that this combo ever came up with the quality songs like barbaad-e-mohabbat even in their golden phase…
here is youtube link::
Barbaad-e-mohabbat
that anand composition by salil was very melodious but rafi could sing these type of songs in his sleep, this song would have been much more melodious, had it been delivered by rafi…. but mukesh did great job too…
kishore never reached the divine standards in singing attained by rafi … rafi was god’s voice … kishore was great singer but nowhere close in quality when compared to rafi…
Mehboob, Sharif seems to be pakistanis! Also most of the people here seem to be very good PAOTYAS!
Please dont’ disgrace Rafi!
Manish,
I doubt that the excerpt you mentioned about SDB threatening to replace Kishore with Rafi for Aradhana is true. SDB had already recorded the two Rafi duets before Rafi left town, and it was clear that Rafi was SD’s first choice for Aradhana. Rafi was SDB’s “first serve”, and first choice for all films, and Aradhana was no exception. While Rafi was out of town, Shakti Samantha wanted the other songs recorded right away, so SDB went to an alternative, and Kishore was lucky he got those songs. Had Rafi been there, I am sure he would have sang the rest of the Aradhana songs too.
r.d.b. / kk team gave many a hit and great flops too; tell us how many flops rafi/r.d.b team gave us. this is directed at fans who harp about the great rdb/kishore jodi.,
and this silly statement of rafi taking more time for rehearsals is all thrash as we know of many rehearsals in which kishore failed to grasp and rafiji called at 4.00 p.m. and walking out at 6.30 p.m. “after” recording the song.
binu nair. mumbai.
ajv & bristol (behroopiya meaning same person with different names):
I was seeing a video on http://www.eternalrafi.com of kishore kumar ji, ur favourite singer. he acts fine. pls. see that. pls hear the songs, its by the one and only Mohd Rafi.
there are 11 songs of rafi saaheb picturised on kk. (not one or two).
after seeing the video close ur ears and eyes and wonder what has struck u. no , i wont suggest u to go to a mental asylum for treatment of hallucination, at this juncture.
binu nair, mumbai.
The greatest difference between Rafi and KK was RD Burman. No matter how great a singer is; it is the melody in the song that attracts people. Singers don’t compose; they can bring value to the song with their voice but composition does make a huge difference. For instance if you see all these remixes still it makes money; the value proposition is in composition and of course the lyrics!
Every singer has their own strengths and of course weakness. For instance the song “Kah door jab din dal jaye” by Mukesh is simply awesome. Not even KK or Rafi could sing like mukesh for this song.
RD is a guru and i feel nobody could do justice to RD’s tunes better than KK. RD and KK were made for each other. Rafi fans accept the fact that KK did deliver immortals songs just like Rafi. KK and RD set a new platform for music which nobody could do. Their combo was terrific. I can’t imagine indian music industry with out KK & RD.
ajv/bristol : the fact is when a “thousand: Kishore Kumar will come and go, one Mohdmmad Rafi is born.
Now, listen to your thrash 800 songs and start counting from one. come on start.
binu nair, mumbai.
Ref. post 560 – You can’t digest Rafi Sahab’s songs because his songs are very sweet like “Kheer”. And you must know that “Dogs only can’t digest Kheer”.
I fully agreed by the comments of Mr. G. S. Sagir “ur taste is worst cheque ur tounge n 4 music check also ur soul and ear because it seems u prefer gobar instead of malaie”.
ref 559
riteshmallik: Rafi’s output was prolific and versatile in many genres. He worked with 250+ different MDs in his career. An excellent fraction of his songs were of very good quality. The last sentence is a subjective opinion of mine and millions of music lover. He satisfied even the most strict composers like Naushad or Madan Mohan. All this was possible because Rafi was apt in picking up songs. A lot of the MDs that Rafi worked with would always praise Rafi’s ability to pick up a song quickly.
Sure there were occasions. A song like O Duniya Ke Rakhwale or Man Tadpat Hari Darshan *innately* require absolute perfection and practice. There were a few halla gulla songs in the 50s that Rafi didn’t always understand what the MD wanted. However, I can’t think of a SEVENTIES song – where Rafi’s ability to pick up a song was challenged. He may have been in poor health at times but that’s a different matter. 70s songs were much easier.
You can’t compare Kishore Kumar picking up a 70s tune versus Rafi practicing extensively for a song like Man Tadpat Hari Darshan. There is nothing wrong with a singer like Kishore or Rafi to practice extensively to get the song right. It should be lauded. Here’s an excerp from Kishore’s biography by Derek Bose:
But then, there were also times when he could not get a simple note righ and woud spend nights on end at home practising, before reporting for the recording. Composer Anil Biswas once turned him away from the studio when he could not render the Husn bhi hai udaas udaas number from Fareb. Not one to give up, Kishore cloeseted himself at home rehearsing the lines till he got the tune to perfection. An almost similar siutation arose with Aradhana when Sachin dev threatened to replaced him with Rafi. Kishore shut himself from the rest of the world for more than a week, practising the songs again and again, until the composer was satisfied.
Then there was his song Yeh Jeevan Hai from Piya Ka Ghar, which composers Laxmikant-Pyarelal were initially not happy about, even after the recording. Pyarelal explained: “Kishore-da, this song gently and gradually unfolds the philosophy of life. Sing it slowly, with profound emotion, so that it touches the heart of the listener.” Rather than dig in his heels, Kishore asked for a chair and re-recorded the song with such feeling that Pyarelal was later to remark that his “voice sounded like a melody of angels”.
end
All these things I described are more reason to praise and admire Kishore da. No matter how talented you are – you *must* work very hard to reach anywhere near the heights these greats did. I think you’re generalizing very specific, unoften occurrences. Rafi was very good at picking up songs (in general). So was Kishore.
ref post 560:
ajv from bristol,
i am honoured to be called a fanatic of Rafi saab.
If there’s any fool on this site, it is you.
And yes i have heard many KK songs of which i only like a handful.
I sometimes wish Rafi had sung those songs as they would have been even better but never the less they are good KK songs but on the whole he has sung too many poor songs that are an ache to the ears.
If you prefer KK songs over Rafi that is your choice but dont talk bull shit by trying to prove that KK was better than Rafi sahab.
KK comes to Rafi’s ankles, Mukesh, Manna Dey and Mahendra Kapoor probably come to Rafi sahab’s knees and Lata comes the closest.
But truly speaking we shouldn’t even be comparing any singer with Rafi saab.
He was miles ahead of all of them.
Why is that that everyone tries to compare their favourite singer with Rafi, because they all know that Rafi was and still is the BEST. A lata fan or a Mukesh fan wil not compare their favourite singer with KK or Asha or MK, or anyone else, the comparison will always be with Rafi.
The probelm with you is in the heart of heart’s you know the truth that Rafi was the best but you guys can’t take it and try to spread your crap.
Ref post 559 if u say Rafi Saheb took so much time in reharsal than KK?
I agrree with u but that means Kk was commercial and Rafi Saab… u can imagine….
There is a recording interview of Rd, always broadcasting by radio regarding song “Mere Naina Sawan Bhado”
Rd said in his interview KK was getting problem to catch ragaas (in reharsal) then he requested us to record this song with Lata first
Uske Baad main ye gane ko rat kar ga doonga, RAAG KI AISI KI TAISI
U all KK supporters rely that he is God and etc. Ur god
said RAAG KI AISI KI TAISI u can imagine what he has respect about music in his mind isn’t he was 100% commercial not professional
Ref Post 560
If u dont digest Rafi Saab Voice Why did u coolect his 800 songs. I think u have been suffering fron dehydration. We all Rafian bless for u
Ref – 560
When the actors of 50s & 60s became old KK gave playback for them. Prior to that Rafi was the main voice. Classic example Dev Anand. See the Dev of 70s and the Dev of 50s, 60s. You can judge for your self.
Rishi’s main voice has been Rafi in the 70s. Initially RDB tried to fix Shailendra / KK has the main voice for him. But the success of Laila Majnu changed every thing there after.
Post 564: Very well said Mr. Sanjay Arora, Rafi Saheb was BAAP of Kishore Kumar.
Re. Post 559: Hey mister, where were you all these days? Collecting fake news??? Rafi Saheb is|was a true and complete singer with full knowledge of music. Can you put here a link where RDB said that Rafi Saheb took so much time in reharsal than KK? C’On you guy, don’t fool us.
Re. Post 560: A rotten joke again written by this chap, who even doesn’t know what’s music! As someone said, Rafi Saheb is from # 1 to # 10, Ki(shor)e Kumar is no where to Rafi Saheb. By writing such nonsense comment, this chap is insulting KK, and not Rafi Saheb. KK’s all time favourite was Rafi Saheb. Hey Mr. UK wala, do you want to prove KK wrong? Very funny comment by this chap!!!
ref : post 560,let me clarify ,RAFI SAAB WAS BAAP OF KK AND NOT UNCLE,THE COLLECTION YOU ARE BOASTING OF KK MERELY CONSISTS OF TRASH OF RDB & KK OF 70`S AND 80`,WHEREAS THE GEMS OF RAFI SAAB SEEMS YOU HAVE NOT EVEN HEARD.PLEASE CONFIRM FROM YOUR COLLECTION EVEN 10 HIT SONGS OF KK UNDER MADANMOHAN,SHANKAR JAIKISHAN,SDB,RAVI,NAUSHAD( ONLY 1 SONG),OPNAYYAR,.PLEASE DO NOT SAY YOU HAVE NOT EVEN HEARD NAMES OF THESE GIANT MUSIC DIRECTORS.
LOL, ajv bristol, who really cares how many songs of each artist you have. To say that the majority of Rafi songs are less in quality or poor and that Kishore has more quality songs, is nonsense, and shows how much knowledge you have. You may think so, but you definitely haven’t heard many Rafi songs, and I doubt you even have as much songs of Rafi as you claim you do. You are entitled to your opinion, but KK’s repertoire is no where even close to Rafi’s repertoire, the only person being a fanatic and foolish is you.
Sorry to say, KK’s voice is no where near to Rafi’s golden voice. KK has many a times sounded as if an old person is singing, whereas that was never the case with Rafi, he always sounded young.
As I said before, please don’t post your nonsense on this site, the KK site has enough, please go and post over there and add to their nonsense.
ajv_bristol_uk: each to his own my friend. that’s really the end all.
Post 560 bristol : pls write your often repeated “nonsenses” in the Kishore Kumar website and please clean up your “damaged ears”.
some people may never appreciate quality things in “life” and you are one of them. It’s entirely your loss and please get out of this site alongwith your garbage.
binu nair. mumbai.
Mehboob,
You sound fanatic and foolish. How many songs of kishore-da have you heard till now? It is unfortunate you can’t enjoy kishore-da songs. I have almost 800+songs of rafi, 2000+ songs of kishore-da and 900+songs of Lata and many others. I just cannot digest Rafi songs. He just sounds like a 50 year old! Kishore-da songs are really magnetic and his voice is bliss. Some of the rafi songs are awesome but majority of his songs are average poor quality songs. Rafi sings like an Uncle.
My post of 3rd of aug 2007 generated few debates and i cdnt read them.sorry 4 being so late in reply..first of all i will like 2 clear few things….
1..im one of d biggest admirer of mohd rafi saab.I consider him as d best singer dat has ever walked on d planet.I consider himeven higher dan Lata..
2..i also rate kishore as a very great singer…
3..Rd was no doubt a very talented music directors and did give us many beautiful melodious music..
…Now lemme get back 2 d topic…I had read an interview of Rd as 2 whom he like most rafi or kishore and his answer was kishore .D reason he gave was dat “kIshore doesnt need lots of practice 2 record a song whereas Rafi takes 30-40 rehearsals 2 ok a song…””
…….dis isnt a hidden fact dat Rafi was a perfectionist and he use 2 take lots of time b4 giving his nod 4 d recording..Dats y we get 2 hear amazing classics in Rafi saabs voice dan nebdy else…Mohabbat jinda rehti hai,,o duniya ke rakhwale,,chal ur jaa re panchi,,apni to har aah,,and many oder songs r just few examples 2 show d phenomenol talent he had..
………One of d mailers had asked me 2 get back into years and listen 2 melody..I wd like 2 tell him widout ne malice dat Ive heard a lot and lot and lot of quality aswell as not so good music..Music is something dat i alwys keep thinking about ….
………..RD did gave some stunning melodies in dose eras..But if i believe my music sense den Rd was no where close 2 his mighty father SD or naushad saab or madan mohan…I have problems when he is termed as D GREATEST..D westernisation of indian music by him was one of d cause of d decline in music quality..D likes of Bappi lehris started plagiarising western songs and serving dem 2 audiences..Post RD music directors started taking lots of works and so dey didnt give much time 2 create exceptional music
..
..
By this title I am 100% agree, My answer will be YES!
When RD got break he used only Rafi Saab in CHOTE NAWAB more than five songs because that was one and only RAFI period. Mean while he also used KK in Bhoot Bangla bot they worked together rarely When Listner taste changed as usual he started prefer KK It was al monoply Mostly industry person used Rafi Saab in his success .
If you ignore quantity Is there anybody to answer me to whom RD Hit Raio is more? IS TAHT
RAFI OR KISHOR ?
Didn’t RD know this fact insted of this he was behind (Prefered) KK
Ref post 538 ur taste is worst cheque ur tounge n 4 music check also ur soul and ear because it seems u prefer gobar instead of malaie
REF POST – 538.
SIR I APPRECIATE YOUR VIEW THAT WE NEED NOT PRAISE RAFI SAHAB FOR HIS EXCELLENT PLAYBACK SINGING. THANKS FOR THIS VIEW OF YOURS. AND MORE OVER RAFI SAHAB NEVER LIKED ANY PRAISE. HIS SON SHAHED RAFI IN ONE OF HIS INTERVIEWS TOLD THAT IF ANY ONE PRAISED RAFI SAHAB THEN INSTANTLY RAFI SAHAB USED TO RAISE HIS HAND & POINT HIS FORE FINGER TO THE HEAVENS. THATS ARFI SAHAB.
AND COMING TO THE SECOND PART OF YOUR STATEMENT REGRADING THE DECLINING QUALITY OF RAFI SAHAB I DONT AGREE WITH YOU SIR. PLEASE LISTEN TO THE QUAWWALI OF ‘ HAM KISISEY KAM NAHIN’
I GIVE A LOT OF RESPECT TO ALL THE THE SINGERS. I TELL THEY ARE ALL AS SWEET AS ‘ SUGAR’ BUT I SAY RAFI SAHAB IS ‘ HONEY’
SHAKKAR BANTAA HAI AUR SHAHAD JO HAMEIN KUDRATSEY MILTI HAI.
BAS YAHI FARK HAI JANAAB.
Janab Sudhir Rao Sahab, Adab Araz Hai,
I would appreciate, if you e-mail me few good Telugu songs of Rafi Sahab. I love to listen those songs. My address is HolyFamilyDr@Aol.com.
Shukriya in advance.
Long live rafi Sahab,
Dr. Khaja Aliuddin,
Chicago.
Re. Post # 551: Shankar, Ravi…… switched over to KK and they never survived!
ref to 551::
yes quality was not that much great when those albums compared to his own earlier work, but in my view what ever sdb composed from 1970-75(in frail health) was meldious than the big guns of 70s- l-p, rdb, ka…etc
ref: 538
I WOULD SINCERELY ADVICE YOU TO GO FOR A FREE MEDICAL CHECKUP,BECAUSE THERE SEEMS TO BE NO HEART & EARS.
IF FREE CHECKUP IS NOT AVAILABLE,PLEASE CHARGE ME FOR EXPENSES
Ref. : 545 : I appreciate yr. observation, but shall fully agree with me that all the films u had mentioned did not have the s.d.burman touch, like films Mili, Zindagi Zindagi, for lthat matter Jugnu. A man who could give music to films like kala bazar on one side and kagaz ke phool or pyassa on the other side had to compromise with melody. Why he took shelter in kk when mohd.rafi was ever loyal to him. Thus explains his switching over..
As a matter of fact , why only pinpoint s.d.burman, even shankar of s.j . and ravi all switched over to kk. in their sinking period.
Nobody is loyal in this industry, For survival and money sake they can change sides.