True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
Dear Haldar Sir:
Please see my post #590 and respond
Hussein ji,
Kindly have a glance at previous 3 to 4 pages in this site i.e pages 18 to 23. You will yourself know who ghantasala is or else go to google. com and type ghantasala. You will know . In a nutshell I can tell he is one of the indian greatest film playback singer (mostly southern languages in particular telugu language) wherein he reigned supreme in his illustrious career spanning 3 decades. As rafi sahab is to north, ghantasala is to south i.e. it hussein ji.
Who is ghantasala?
Ahamed Kutty sahab,
The website titled project ghantasala is also quite active for many years and continues to function actively. I agree with your points. But some points I wish to share with you.
Recently, I had read in some newspaper that a temple is being built for rafi sahab in the west. That is great indeed. You know in Andhra Pradesh, (I could not exactly recollect the place, but I will tell the same shortly) a temple for ghantasala exists in which his songs are continuously heard. This has been arranged with latest technology. So this proves the similarity between both singers as far as the respect of their respective fans is concerned for both the singers. Even in the west, the telugu academy is quite active continuously every year and as and when occasion arises to conduct programmes and remember ghantasala. In Andhra pradesh, every year, ghantasala concerts and programmes are held on his birth/death day at many places. The details I will provide you as and when the occasion arises. Perhaps no other singer enjoys such popularity. Rafi sahab’s popularity is only 27 years but ghantasala’s popularity is 35 years old dear kutti sahab.
Rafians, get a glimpse of the aathwan sur in op’s recording room.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCyU2cNXjCs
We have singers who are masters to some extent only.Yesudas saabs “gori tera gav bada pyara” is one of the best songs in hindi.we will not be happy to hear such songs always.we have kishoreda who can sing maximum two or
three types of songs.we have mukeshji who also like that.then Mannadeyji
and Mahendra Kapoorji also same.here we can see the difference of mohamed rafi saab.nobody is having the flexibility what he is having.he sings
the great song “oh duniya ke ” as well as other types icluding for Johny walker
and junior mehmood.
other than religious leaders,nobody in world history brought any community
in any of the forms.but after 27 years of his death rafi saab became the
cause of a community”rafian community”and the members automatically
having some sort of brotherly connection.
personalitywise rafi saab maintained a very rare personality until his death.
one of the reasons he is having fans all over the world is the appearance.
he made people to sing his songs who do not know hindi or urdu.
As far as stage programmes are concerned, anybody can bring a programme
like his in Royal albert hall,london.Almost all singers favourite singer is
rafi saab.
Is any other playback singer’s(living or dead) web site is active like rafi saab’s.
we have no substitutions for his qualities.That is why we should not compare
with mohamed rafi saab with any other singer(male or female) as for above
qualities nobody is there to reach near him.
when frog got birth and came on the earth he saw a bird who was flying in the sky he tried to fly like the bird he tried a little bit but when he saw a dog he tried to walk like the dog as soon as he saw a duck in water he tried like duck and so on…… he tried every things a little bit so he is versatile but couldn’t learn perfectly anything and finally we see he is not able to fly, walk or swim. So Kishore Kumar is like a frog and Rafi Saab is like a lion
Murthy garu,
I am not able to understand how you could carve out such a research. anyhow it sounds interesting. But i don’t hesitate in saying one thing in straight forward way. Whatever it may be, how can you compare these people (rafi ji and ghantasala ji) with Sri thyagaraja swamigal or mirabai, tulasidas, bhakt jayadev etc. They are all spiritual giants and any comparison would simply amount to comparison between earth and sky. So pl. try to understand and my request is don’t try to venture into areas in which we do not even possess the basic eligibility to think rather than make comments on those great spiritual souls. Hope you take my message in right spirit.
Posts 582 by respected Haldarji and 590 by Anil ji invoke interest in me as to the technivalities of the voice. I am a common man who grew up listning to Rafi Saheb’s songs. I also recall my dad and other oldies praising KL Saigal saheb as I was very young then. The melody wise Saigals saheb’s voice also floated with lot of geniune feelings. Rafi Saheb took background singing to dizzy heights. No other singer, male or female could achieve that. I suppose this was because of his natural ability as described in 3D form by Mr Haldar. What range and with what ease he could modulate his voice and coming back from high pitch into normal singing in the same breath is unparrallelld.
You two are good at analysis, I heard Jagjit Singh on Star voice of India the other day saying that if the suction of a singer’s voice can be heard then he/she are short of breath. To me, this may be true for most, but Rafi Saheb does it on purpose in his hey days e.g; “Abhi naan jaao chhod kar”-hum dono.
Hello all favourite rafian friends specially binu nair ji of rafi foundation along with all other fans and music analysts and lovers
I was really astonished to see this ghantsala and rafi comparison in the past 5 to 6 pages viz., many people quoting different versions and some balanced individuals quoting both of them as equal legends (including myself). To know the reality, out of curiosity and enthusiasm, i adopted a different technique, altogether different and generally beyond comprehension of human minds which I am describing here. My request is that kindly do not misunderstand and ridicule me since I have tried a new technique which if all of you read will appear quite interesting.
I have approached a reputed astrologer with the horoscopes of both rafi sahab and ghantasala ji (based on their date of birth i.e 24th Dec. 1924 & 4th Dec. 1922 – derived from google. com and their related websites) for analysing their talents. I am summarising hereunder the conclusions of the astrologer.
a. Both the horoscopes have influence of beneficial planet jupiter and mercury prominent in relation to the 2nd house (ruling voice) thus establishing melodious voices for both.
b. Rafi sahab has a mahapurusha yoga with reference to 2nd house making him famous globally even in western countries, whereas ghantasala ji has a rajayoga involving the 2nd house (ruling voice) making him famous and expert in music at the regional level.
c. The planet associated with music namely venus is strongly associated with 2nd house in case of ghantasala, whereas in case of rafi sahab sun assumes prominence. This indicates, the classical depth and training in music is rigorous and exemplary in case of ghantasala than rafi sahab.
d. Both the horoscopes have the 8th house and planet of longevity damaged thus giving rise to short life (53 for ghantasala ji and 56 for rafi sahab)
The astrologer while remarking said that since it is a case involved with music and two top legends in film industry, he also passed a passing remark to sri thyagaraja’s horoscope (who is revered as the first in trimurtis of carnatic music) wherein sun, mercury, jupiter are completely prominent in relation to 2nd house (ruling voice), The sun is not only exalted but jupiter and mercury are also equally powerful. The conclusion by the astrologer was. a complete divine voice directly gifted by god and fully capable of creating original and spot music compositions without any practise and only voice capable of pleasing directly the almighty. He further concluded that both the film legends voice, depending upon the strength and position of planetary combinations, do not even rank at least even to the 1/10th of saint thyagarja ji’s combinations.
If anybody could provide tansen’s horoscope, it will be an interesting case to study.
The above research may seem quite different, some may not even approve this and ridicule me, but as i requested and said, so much discussion has been going on in the past 5 to 6 pages, so only out of interest and enthusiasm i have tried some new method. It is for the fans and readers to take it either in optimistic or pessimistic way. I have written without any prejudice on any part pl.
If any of the fans/readers are also astrologers here, my request is they may pl. comment and give their views.
Ref: Post 582:
Thank you Haldar Sir for the response to my post. Your analysis of the voice of various singers are really wonderful. As you rightly pointed out, Rafi Sir’s voice is so flexible than it’s nearly impossible to brand it. As for the singer-actor combos I’m not as well-informed (as a south Indian)as I’d like to be. Still I am aware of the fact that Rafi sir did modulate his voice a lot depending on the actor. That coarser feel is there in Barbad -e-mohabbat as well as Dard-e-dil.
However I’d like to mention here that my idea of sweetness is somewhat different to yours. To me, sweeter voices are the polished, smoother ones (eg. Rafi Sir, K J Yesudas sir and Talaat Saab). The booming, heavier voices (eg. Kishore da, Hemant da) don’t appear to me sweet, though they have a beauty of their own. I’d also like to mention that of all the voices, the most difficult ones to ape (for me) are Rafi Sir’s and K J Yesudas sir’s- the combo of smooth finish going with a heavy base is nearly impossible to replicate.
May I request you to explore a bit further on the harmonic axis, Mukesh ji’s voice and Manna da vis-a-vis “gayaki” (Is this a tech-term?)
binu ji
points noted on this side also
may be a slight misinterpretation of ur statement
thnx for the warning , i ll certainly look out
but one thing what i dont understand is why those fake writers are allowed to write such rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
anyway sir I request ur presence in our community also
have a look and u hope u ll not be hisheartened
regards
Post 584: Vasu ji..
god created many great things. i truly believe mohd rafi
to be god’s great creation.
this is a belief ‘shared’ by many knowledgable men , I come
across.
i believe them….
binu nair. the rafi foundation.. mumbai… ( binus2000@hotmail.com )
Aseer ji…
Points noted:
Orkut is a serious community , I agree. no ill will ‘ever meant’
aseer ji…
What I mean is that writers may please go to orkut , make a
community of their loved ones – I mean the singers and write
over there, their views. we will not be – bothered.
my views remain and i stand by it : that this is , ‘is’ a rafi saab
site. pl. do not make comparisons about rafi being inferior to
other singers here. it will be unending.
i too have my favourite singers and if i beging writing here , i
am sure of taking the confusion and disagreements further to
about 600 posts or more.
please get the meaning : that this is a mohd rafi site and please
keep the sanctity of it.
do not compare as mr.narayanan has observed; and be aware
of fake writers who come ‘in’ to create controversies herein.
this is the bottomline…
binu nair.. the rafi foundation….. mumbai…
binu ji
allthough we hail from different lands(orkut,mohdrafi.com etc)
we share one earth and passion is same(Rafi sahab)
remember freind the RAFIANs are one
good post nitish bhai(no 581)
Binu ji, I am again requesting u to plz stop insulting the true fans of Rafi sahab in orkut
we r serious community there and u cant find a single line of abuse there in the whole community whereas in this portal dedicated to Rafi sahab u can easily find insulting posts. Why these are being allowed?
You to prove urseelf a bigger Rafi fan is abusing others without even knowing that some fans in orkut may challenge the level of dedication u have for Rafi sahab.
What is happening in kk community is beyond our control but to prove our sincerity u cant even find a comparison based poll\topic there
Please refrain urself from making such comments which only highlight ur ignorance
Ramakrishna garu, greetings
Thank you very very much.
Hello all the esteemed friends and genuine music lovers, our earnest request is again to kindly pay small attention to our messages in 579 & 583 pl. This is make all people happy.
Binu nair ji, your post in 575 pl. I appreciate and admire your feelings about rafi sahab. But a small request pl. I personally feel you are quoting somewhat excess such as rafi alone, god creation etc. In fact you won’t disagree If I say that saint thyagaraja, the father of carnatic music, with his voice has invoked Lord Rama himself, i.e. the almighty. So your diction may apply to such great devotees, and certainly not to either rafi sahab or ghantasala garu. Both are equal legends in film industry and they will be like that only and nothing more. So my kind request is to kindly confine ourselves within our mortal limits while quoting our comments in respect of these legends.
ref post 579
vasu garu,
what an excellent & matured way of explanation. hope this brings down the arguements over who is the best & who is the second best.
if we consider music as the holi river ‘ ganges ‘ then rafi sahab is one edge & ghantasaala garu is another edge. the river flows swiftly taking along with it both the edges, and in my opinion all the rest of the singers bridge this gap between the two edges to keep the flow alive & make music ‘ divine ‘
i request all my rafian friends that let us not have any difference of opinion over this issue. in fact we are highly indebted to almighty that he has brought us to this world at that particular time when both the legends were making the microphones shiver.
one was ruling the entire south like a ‘ thick black cloud ‘ & the next legend was covering the entire sub continent like a ‘ cyclonic ‘ cloud.
and in both the cases the result was same. ‘ pure rain drops ‘
ramakrishna, hyderabad, 9949509592
sabnivis@yahoo.com
ref post 577:
mr. cherian, very good analysis of rafi saab’s voice. You are right that his voice depended on the type of song he sang. But there is another factor: the actor he playbacked for. Let me start with “dil par hua aisa jadoo” from mr. and mrs. 55 that he sang for guru dutt:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3_R0tsW5sig
He introduces more bass in this song than, say, the songs for Rajendra Kumar for whom his voice would waver a little more than usual. But if you want a heavier voice, try Raj Kumar; here is “sharmake yun na dekh” from neek kamal:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sYnDrP3im9Y
On the x-axis, if you plot “heaviness”, talat will be to the farthest left and hemant will be to the farthest right, just a little right of kishore. rafi will be somewhere in the middle, with manna a little to the left. yesudas will be very close to rafi. But rafi’s voice could easily traverse almost the entire axis, probably stopping a little short of kishore’s.
On the y-axis, let us plot “sweetness” of the voice. Hemant’s will be very high, given his saccharin-sweet voice. Yesudas will also be very high. Manna and Talat will suffer somewhat on this axis. If you like Kishore’s intrinsic voice quality — which I do — he would also score well here. Rafi’s natural voice is very sweet but this is where he used to purposely vary his voice given the actor he was playbacking for and the type of song. People keep talking about Rafi-Shammi, Rafi-Dev and Rafi-Rajendra Kumar combos. But how about Rishi Kapoor? You will notice that he uses a slightly coarser voice to go on Rishi Kapoor; because qawaalis are the flavour of the day, here’s “hai agar dushman”:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dLf5WPCniEc
In a 3-D space, you can conceive of a third axis, which I call the harmonics axis. There are only two players on this axis: rafi saab and a female singer (no, not the usual suspect). Now, if you plot the graphs, rafi saab’s voice will be an undulating hyperplane, shining in its sheer form, beauty and majesty, the likes of which you might see once in a millenium.
You will note that I haven’t mentioned mukesh. Mukesh is an outlier and that’s why he retained the perennial no. 2 spot; in short, he carved a niche for himself. Manna, being the closest to rafi in terms of gayaki, suffered the most.
Binu Bhai….
even on orkut pages , such comparision is not allowed, at least not at the largest community of rafi saab on orkut. I wonder how so much rubbishes is allowed on this great portal of the greatest singer. 815 entries for rafi-kishore and hundreds of entries here, for what? trying to prove that rafi saab is greatest? trying to compare the uncomparable? have we any confusion about the greatness of the rafi saab, not just as a singer but also the greatest human being of film industry? if so , then for what such rubbishes is allowed here? just to proof that we are from a democratic country? There are a lot of great singer everywhere but greatest is only rafi saab.
but here every a b c person came here , righting so n so singer is better than rafi saab and we get involved in proving each time that he is wrong.
when these people did not understand the divinty in the voice of rafi saab after hearing him , then how could they understand after reading such arguemants…
it is my sincere request not to compare the uncomparable.
telugu pride, maratha pride, punjabiyat, bengalee pride – all are
at work. all sectarians.. sorry for telling the ‘truth’.
this is a mohd rafi site and he sang in hindi. he is the ‘reigning’
badshah of music.. the sectarians have forgotten.
we are tired of these comparisons and raj from maharashtra
who visits this site in different names i.e. ashu/ashwini/ etc. etc
has again succeeded in ‘creating’ a controversy about rafi.
he is laughing , in the sidelines.
music lovers have again fallen in to his ‘trap’
we are tired of this . please stop this now. please visit the orkut
and write about your ‘sectarian’ singers there. there is ample scope
for ‘it’.
Leave this site for rafi lovers .. please..
binu nair. the rafi foundation…… mumbai…
All esteemed friends and music lovers
Discussions are taking undesirable turns. I feel arguments should be friendly, open and of pure thoughts without giving way to any unpleasant consequences as is happening. Myself and Sri Ramakrishnaji have many times stated the greatness of both legends. This should clearly set right all doubts. and another point all esteemed friends, i am unable to understand why some people are using words like blasphemy etc. Here no body is committing an offence everybody is expressing his own opinion according to own personal choice. After all tastes differ from individuals to individuals. And in my opinion as true fans and genuine music lovers, we should not lose our balance at any time. Some say ghantasala is great, this does not make rafi sahab inferior, similarly, if other says, rafi sahab is great, it does not degrade ghantasala. it is only the way of receiving/taking by people in the right spirit. i am unable to understand why some people (fans) are fighting over one another, when they (legends) themselves had great respect for each other as stated by venkatadri ji and others here.
Sri Venkatadri ji, a small correction pl. which i wanted to share with you. My father had met ghantasala in 1972 and spoke to him for 8 hours at Hyderabad. Ghantasala garu stated that when producers ask him to follow a hindi tune he used to follow it and he himself never had any interest towards any hindi tune. I hence feel your interpretation of copying/following to 90% seems incorrect. After all, A music director has also to keep the producers interest in mind.
Murthy garu,
I said Ghantasala that is my second best singer and I said it very clearly. You really didn’t understand it or have taken your liberties in twisting it!
I am very uncomfortable with misquoes and persons who do it.
Venkat
Since there’s been a lot of hue and cry about Rafi sir’s voice, especially comparing it with Ghantasala ji’s and Kishore da’s, I thought I’d (as some one who’s been trained in western music and who copies with reasonable success, the voice of most of our great singers) also go ahead with some comments. Rafi sir’s voice is not weak or light. It’s actually a perfect voice (So is K J Yesudas Sir’s voice). I request all those who prefer to think of Rafi sir’s voice as “not strong enough” to try singing like him. You’ll be amazed to find that it’s pretty deep and heavy (not too heavy and deep, though). It’s that polished top that gives it that soft and smooth feel. It’s the basic hevyness that keeps his voice masculine at those super- human notes (reaching up to d-flat in the 4th Octave). It’s also this heavyness that gives it that distinct punch in all those hi-energy songs (Dil ne dil ko pukara…, ni sultana re …nazar na lag jayee…and scores of Shammi Kapoor numbers), which’s lacking in a typical soft-voiced (gazal) singer. At the same time the soft-n-smooth top enables him to sing din dhal jayee..rang aur noor…zindagi bhar nahin…mujhe le chalo…and scores of other gazals as well as melancholic numbers.
To sum up, Rafi sir’s voice is strong when it needed to be, soft when it needed to be and that voice can be best described as soothing yet majestic.
post 570 Sastry garu,
Once again u r comparing a carnatic music with hindusthani music which are sung with different style.
pl compare Rafi saab singing in hindi films with Ghanatasala garu’s hindi film songs [ should be atleast 25 songs } because a language plays a very important role in diction.
U must be knowing that legend Rafi saab was a school drop out and knew only urdu but still he has managed to dominate in the bollywood thru sheer god’s gift, hardwork n best talent.
It is a bonus for his fans that he has sung in various languages including english.
So Sastry garu no doubt Ghantasalu garu is the best in sanskritised versions of telugu mythological songs where as the same singer would not have been able to imbibe the various harkatheins, versatility, all types of mood based songs. Kindly listen to pyaasa, kagaz ke phool, laal quila, and innumerable songs even not so hit banners it is only Rafi saab who brings the best.
Also playbacking was brought in a new dimension as we can predict who is the actor whether is dilip or shammi or johnny walker or rajendra or mehmood when Rafi saab renders so perfectly.
So pl compare bollywood with bollywood and tollywood with tollywood only.
This is the view of most of the music lovers who love vintage music in my group.
Post 568 Aseer bhai
we are with u if anyone commits blasmephy..
regards
POST 570 :
THE BEAUTIFUL number ‘Kuhu Kuhu bole koyaliya” was sung by
rafi-lata.
shri ghantasala recommended rafis name to the music composer
adi narayan rao.
sastry ji.. how many songs did shri ghantasala sing in hindi ,
english and other languages as rafi did?
Please do not compare rafi with any other singer as rafi is a
‘quintisential singer’ who could give ‘quintuple’ effect to any
number or deed he did.
If ever god could ‘sing’ it would have to be in the voice of rafi.
more, if ever god made a great human being with a golden
voice it has to be rafi and rafi ‘ alone ‘.
please write your views in the orkut pages as rafi fans here
are not ‘interested’ in any of your theories and comparisons
herein.
please be happy and leave the place. no thanks.
binu nair. mumbai
Sastry garu,
You have specifically addressed a post to me and asked for my views and I gave them to you. You do not have to agree.
Incidentally, just one small, but important, point. All the Telugu MDs including Ghantasala (Ghantasala is as much an MD as a singer!) used to closely follow all the old Hindi songs and used to copy them in their Films many a time. In this, Ghantasala was a forerunner.
It also so happens that 90% of such songs that he copied from HFM for his Films were by Rafi Saab.
Only some examples:
1.”Prema Kosame Wala Lo Padene Paapam Pasi Vadu” (patala Bhairavi) from Rafi Saab’s “Suno Suno Ae Duniya Walon Bapu Ki Yeh Amar Kahani” (Copied both the Mukhda and Antara)
2.”Samsaram Samsaram Prema Sudha Teeram” (samsaram–MDs:Ghantasala & Susarla) from Rafi Saab’s “Yeh Zindagi Ke Mele” from Film:Mela
3.”Jayammu Nischayammu Ra Bhayammu Ledu Ra” (Sabash Ramudu) from Rafi Saab’s “Kadam Badhaye Ja nazar”
There are many more of this nature from early 50’s right upto the early 70’s.
I will post a complete list (over 35 to 40 songs) later.
But, the point here is that it was Ghantasala who used to closely view Hindi Film Music and its MD’s/Singers. Rafi Saab was a great favorite of both Ghantasala and NTR. Rafi Saab and rest of the HFm hardly ever needed to be inspired by or copy from Ghantasala songs.
So, the above proves two points:
1. Ghantasala, though a very great singer, was just known to Telugu people like you and me. Even Tamil/Kannada/Malayalam folks do not know him.
2. Even your great favorite Ghantasala used to be inspired only by HFm and especially Rafi Saab.
One more point. I make my assessment in my own mind based on comparision of hundreds of both singers’ songs. Even on SOng-to -song comparision Rafi Saab has a clear edge, but it is a faulty way of doing it.
Finally, I have no idea of your knowledge of Hindi songs of Rafi Saab and hence would not like to continue this discussion with you.
Venkat
Here’s Telugu Rafi in action (original tune composed by two Gujaratis):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tFh2AM9e5M0
And here’s Punjabi Rafi in action (tune composed by a Bengali):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dlEEuNw-Kwc
Venkatadri garu
Sastry garu seems to be more generous. He is simply quoting. But I wish to bring to your notice that I feel happy that at last you have acknowledged voice of ghantasala as strong and booming than rafiji. You also fully accept that ghantasala had no competition and rafi indeed did face competition. As sastry garu said, there was no dearth of talent in telugu, and as sri anil cherian says about k j yesudas, he very much sang in telugu films when ghantasala garu was very much there but could not match ghantasala at any point of time leave matching rafi sahab who is the greatest singer on par with ghantasala. You also further acknowledge ghantasala as your best singer. I don’t know despite accepting all the above points what more edge rafi ji is having according to you, i don’t know. It seems from your analysis that despite accepting above points you somehow want to support rafi ji in some or other way i.e. by hook or crook depite accepting above points with reference to ghantasala. This is confusing. What do you say Mr. Venkatadri.
Mr anil cheriyan, i feel you are from south and I frankly admit that k j yesudas was definitely a great singer but as stated my many friends in these columns including music analysts, he ranks only next to ghantasala and rafi sahab.
Who are raj and sid? KK was just a joker, Rafi Saheb jaisa koi nahin.
Venkatadri garu,
I don’t feel convinced with your comments. Your view that hindi field has more talent than telugu counterpart seems misleading. There were indeed top singers such as p b srinivas, a m raja, k j yesudas also sang in telugu when ghantasala garu was very much there, and as you said mukesh, talat etc. are certainly not much great vis-a-vis aforesaid telugu people. The above referred telugu people are also equally multitalented as I have listened to many of these telugu as well as hindi singers. But none could match ghantasala at any point of time. I told you even during his last stages (71-74) when ghantasala was not well, then also he dominated the field due to his experience and voice. Even in such stage other singers could not match him. ghantasala rose like a colossus among all these singers only due to his majestic voice and his voice well ensured that no competition exists. Not that there is dearth of talent. What about raghunath panigrahi singing with ghantasala in jayabheri?
Why don’t you compare same songs of both? i.e. paya ninche o chiluka of ghantasala garu and chal ud ja re panchi of rafi. Will you not agree former’s voice has more attraction. Similarly in suvarna sundari song, hayi hayiga amani (in hindi kuhu kuhu koyalia) again ghantasala has dominated both in terms of presentation and melody. What do you say? Rafi might have sung in all moods. does that mean ghantasala did not sing. Certainly no. If rafi has sung o duniya ke rakhwale, then ghantasala assumes speciality in madhuram madhuram siva mantram in kalahasti mahatyam (note the devotion and sharpness in high pitch) pl. compare both. Similarly, take ghantasala’s song amma ani arachina in panduranga mahatyam or ye nimishaniki emi jaruguno and see the emotions there. The question here is not that who presented better talent but who possessed the most natural melodious voice. This might be temporary also and only at a certain point of time. I feel certainly ghantasala had that. I tell you pl. hear tenaliramakrishna picture song hare rama hare rama (nagaiah and ghantasala singing), the melody in the voice of ghantasala is all powerful there. Rafiji never expressed such melody in any of his 25000 plus songs.
Difference with reference to speciality in both voices is when a song goes from low pitch to high pitch ghantasala garu’s voice becomes more sharp and strengthened without compromising melody but rafi sahab maintains only melody but his voice does not become sharp or strengthened. This is the main difference between both and accordingly ghantasala definitely assumes edge. (pl. comment on symala dandakam of ghantasala in mahakavi kalidasu – this proves my above point)
I have nothing more to say.
Ref: post 553:
Dear Venkat Sir:
In the list of Rafi admirers, u seem to have missed out the great K J Yesudas (who IMO is the only singer that can be compared to Rafi Sir)
and rafi lovers please remember that ’some ‘ crazy men come
to this portal and start writing that so and so singer is better than
rafi.
binu ji, i have deep regards for u and also i m the moderator of the biggest Rafi community in orkut along with Mr Nitish Sinha….sir we take utmost care not to let any intruder defame Rafi sahab a bit. zero tolerance for such things. I invite u to plz visit it and make comments as we have a forum for that also. one slight indirect attack on Rafi sahab and BANG! a kick on his back and there he goes.
In orkut we r also dedicated fans sir and we have already developed a great website of our own.
plz visit http://www.eternalrafi.com
waiting for ur comments
Dear Raj,
Why are u so ingnorant my dear bhai? No where Manna da has said that Kishore da is superior to Rafi saab and he is only higlighting his expericences with ur fav singer and nothing else….
There was a interview of Manna da live one in Radio city all stations where he clearly mentions that if he wants to take rebirth he would like to be like another Rafi saab.
Also he mentions with great respect that any budding artiste will first offer respect to Rafi saab in male n Lataji in female category and keep a framed photo of the legend.
Either growup or tell facts do not distort them if u do not know….
As for Ghantasala garu he is the supreme in telugu films industry like Yesudasji in malayalam, and so on so forth..
But when it comes to bollywood it is Rafi saab n lataji followed by others….
I think we should not compare the two legends as they are from different languages and Ghantasala garu has not sung any hindi film songs to my knowledge….
It is like foolishly we are comparing hindustani exponent Bhimsenjoshi with carantic Balamurali krishna…
Or comparing Amjad ali khan with some one like Narayanaswamy a veena vidhwaan…
so do not be a blind fan like what Nitish sinha has mentioned
Some ignorant folks, who claim to be great music lovers, have been trying to interpret raju bharatan’s interpretation of what manna dey wrote in his autobiography. I’ll respond to Raju Bharatan’s piece later; he has been getting on my nerves for the last 40 years and I’ll give him a fitting reply. But for all the other raju’s and raj’s, here is a sampling of manna da’s comments; if they understand English, I’m sure they will understand what he means:
1. The singer comments on actors and contemporary singers with reverence. About his contemporaries he says, “Rafi and I shared a great rapport and I doubt if he shared this with anybody else. Rafi instituted a tradition by himself and his style remains unique. Lata has been singing for nearly 50 years now. She hails from a tradition very rich in natya sangeet, a convention with an amazing range of stylisations. Amazing also is her dedication.
2. I am indeed very lucky that in spite of the fact that there were greater singers than I, like Rafi, Asha and Lata, I was still sought after. I never cease to be surprised at the way these doyens sang. Their voices transport me to another world. I am honoured that I have been able to make a place for myself among them.
3. And here’s the advertising line for his autobiography:
“You listen to my songs; I listen to Manna Dey songs only,” the legendary Mohammad Rafi once said.
High praise indeed for the popular playback singer of Hindi and regional films. And praise which Dey treasured more than awards, which he looked upon ‘as an inconsequential form of recognition’.
dear sastri and raj sahab
first of all thanks for u compliments.
1)first of all,bollywood is the major source for all over the world,who cares telugu or other film industries?
2)if we listen savarana sunadi kuhu kuhu tell me who has sweeter voice?ghantsala or rafi?no doubt rafi has more melody that ghantsala while ghantsala has pace in my opinon.
3)secondly,who is more famous in world rafi or ghantsala?if u are immoveable then i can mention my punjabi songers more range than anyone in subcontinent.
4)secondly,be open minded every one has to face set backs in his life,career etc so u point is not valid.so ,the question is that who is better and verstile?rafi or kishore?
listen and enjoy
Sastry garu,
First of all, my sincere thanks for your appreciation of my knowledge, whether I deserve it or not.
You are aware that I am a great admirer of Ghantasala Mastaaru for his many divine and excellent songs. Fortunately, God had given me the opportunity to listen thorughly to almost all of them including private songs.
Now, your first question was whether I do not find Ghantasala’s voice ‘stronger’ than that of Rafi Saab. Let me reply firstly that I admire Ghantasala’s voice a great deal. But, ‘being strong and booming’ is not necessarily the only quality of a great voice. In fact, lovers of Rafi Saab, Talat Mehmood etc. do so, among other things, for their ‘Mukhmali’, soft voices. Especially, Rafi Saab’s voice has many many facets. To put it briefly, his voice modulates at will.
Secondly, you said Ghantasla did not have competition during his lifetime, but Rafi Saab did have competition. Yes, indeed. Even during his dominating period between early 50’s to early 70’s and again from 1976 till the end, Rafi Saab always had competition from the likes of Mukesh, Talat, Kishore etc. But, Ghantasala not having competition and Rafi Saab having it do not prove anything. For instance, Hindi Film Music industry certainly had more talent than its Telugu counterpart and that explains your point.
Well, Sastry garu, based on some many hundreds of songs of Ghantasala that I know and also many hundreds of songs of Rafi Saab that I know, I can say that Rafi Saab certainly had an edge over Ghantasala as a singer, considering talent, voice, variety/versatility, etc.
As I said in some earlier posts, my second best male singer out of all languages is Ghantasala!
Regards,
Venkat
Here goes the article abut the way the dicussion goes-
KKFan : It is obvious that KK was the best singer ! Better than
your Rafi !!
RafiFan : (perplexed) Obvious ? but how ?
KKFan : Of course. He kicks ass. And mightyly.
RafiFan : (still perplexed) But how does that say anything about
singing abilities ?
KKFan : I mean he pours emotions in his songs.
RafiFan : (slightly interested) Can you elaborate please ?
KKFan : Naturally. The way he laughs in between, his famous
yodeling, the way he could say “kukru kuku” etc.
RafiFan : But what about singing. What you said above, can be done
in a better way by Johny Lever. What about SINGING ?
KKFan : (annoyed) Come now. Have you ever seen him singing ? He
really used to dance while recording his songs.
RafiFan : But I prefer to HEAR somebody sing, rather than SEE him
singing. What about his singing abilities ?
KKFan : He was a genius. He could act, he could dance, he could
direct movies. He was ultimate. He had 4 wives, you know !
RafiFan : But my dear freind, let’s discuss SINGING please.
KKFan : You don’t understand anything about music. Your Talat
had a palindromic name.
RafiFan : (??) But I am a Rafi fan. I don’t care how anybody spells
a name. I would like to know why you think KK was better.
KKFan : Don’t dare you start a flame war ! Our KKFanClub has a lot
more members. You will be blasted off the net.
RafiFan : (amused) But let’s just discuss. eg. How good was KK while
singing classical based songs ?
KKFan : Ah ! I knew you would come to this point. We are well aware
that KK didn’t have a formal training.
RafiFan : But is it Rafi’s fault ?
KKFan : (trying to think) No .. I mean .. Yes. No. No. But he was
good in every other aspect. And why should everybody sing
those Naushad songs ? KK was more lively singer, he could
put emotions into every song. Remember that “kukru kuku” ?
RafiFan : (exasperated) There is no hope. I give up.
KKFan : You see, you see. I knew I would win. You Rafi fans have
no point on which you can argue. Ha ha ha, KK the greatest !
(shouts … shouts and just shouts … )
So dear KKfan, if you have anything more than this … 🙂 🙂
while drowning, a person try to save himself through different loads. if one load is not enough, he left that and try to grasp another load. so if singing of quality of kishore da was not enough to save his point from drowning, then statements of manna dey was taken..however when it is clear that that stuff gone against him then this ghantashala stuff and 1971-1976 era stuff and after this you will find some another stuff.
Because it is now clear that 1948-1971 era and 176-1980 era stuff is now worth of discussion for him………..
Interestingly no one will find such person discussing the ‘singing’ of kishore da… However i think one will find one or two good things in his singing, but all discussion are going like the following article I find on the net by some MR ABHAY..
Raj,
I am glad that my posts addressed to you had the desired effect on you! You have started defensive expressions such as “at least from 1971 to 1976” etc.! Ha ha!
I have nothing more to discuss with you.
Venkat
Venkatadri garu, Namaskarams.
I hope you remember me and my earlier messages. I am aware you are an elderly person almost equal to me and i have deep respect for you and have great admiration for your knowledge on both singers i.e. ghantasala garu as well as rafi sahab. Your earlier messages i personally feel that i am not fully convinced about the explanations given therein because you have skipped some points and covered only some points. I was asking you whether rafi sahab’s voice has the same strength of ghantasala garu voice as in jayabheri (madi sarada devi). The sangeeta swaras when rendered by ghantasala garu appears more dynamic, strong and majestic whereas when rafi sahab sings (madhuban me radhika for instance) with regard to such strength and dynamism, I don’t think his voice is powerful than ghantasala garu. What do you say? Moreover the carnatic music specialists have definitely edge over hindusthani specialists because carnatic music itself is more powerful than hindusthani. An adept in carnatic can render hindusthani with lesser effort whereas an hindustani expert has to struggle harder to render carnatic music with ease. That is why the beauty and strength in ghantasala garu’s renderings in siva sankari and hayi hayiga amani from suvarna sundari which carry hindusthani music stamps. These points I have heard from leading telugu music directors namely sri saluri rajeswara rao (he was not satisfied with any singer except ghantasala) , and I am not myself
quoting this.
next very important point, as mr. raj has said I too submit that ghantasala had no competitor and no body dared to compete with him as long as was alive. In fact, it is said when ghantasala entered chennai (then madras) all existing singers had to pack off permanently from madras for the next 3 decades. Another point i have heard from our elders, even you have to enlighten me on this, that ghantasala was adjuged as the best playback singer award by film associations for the entire 3 decades (i.e. every year) . No other singer got that award when ghantasala was there. Even it is said when Bhakta Tukaram film shooting was going on m d Adi narayana rao waited for ghantasala for so many days because he was not well at that time. Ultimately, he recorded top songs of ghantasala garu in that film. The leading singer p b srinivas has quoted voice of ghantasala as kanchu kantha (impregnable voice).
I dont think rafi sahab enjoyed the same status equivalent to ghantasala. He did face tough competition from kishore kumar. For aradhana kishore got best singer award. But as i said ghantasala was the best singer in telugu as long as he was alive and never the best playback singer award slipped from him.
I request your valuable comments after hearing my analysis above.
with best regards.
Mr. Venkatadri as well as Binu nair, Pl. carefully read word to word of mine.
A smell of leaf of a tree is enough to know about the tree. As stated my many people here, I have heard siva sankari telugu song of ghantasala in dishant. com in telugu songs and also his other songs. I had already posted this view of mine in previous messages, perhaps you might not have seen my message (message no. 499) This is enough to know the skill and voice of ghantasala. I may not know telugu or ghantasala but do you think I am writing here simply without hearing him. And also my immediate past messages regarding bhagavad geetha few slokas, the same are available on internet in mp3 download format. I think I need not tell you about this.
Regarding kk, you yourself state that kk was much sought after from 1971 onwards. If rafi’s skill is incomparable why was kishore sought after and what happened to rafi’s skill. Ok as per your words at least from 1971 to 76 why that temporary fall back for rafi. Thus rafi did face competition and competitor.
Binu nair, you were stating I start supporting ghantasala. One point I am asking you and venkatadri. could you reply. You yourself say kishore gave tough competition to rafi and rafi faced setback. But never in any of the messages of telugu and other readers seen that there was or has been any competitor for ghantasala during his lifetime and even after his death till today (as can be seen from raghavan sahab’s message rafi voice if comparable i.e. with kishore, whereas ghantasala incomparable means no competition for him)
This single point i.e a singer who had no competitor or no body dared to compete with him either during his life time or his passing away is enough to prove him as a superior singer. Hope your matured mind understands this. This point has been repeated from time to time by many telugu people here many many times.
if you think you are so well knowledgable, don’t forget to post clear cut replies to my above explanation.
raj, the determined fan of superior singer
“Rafi was a wonderful person , a trendsetter in singing , he evolved a style of his own which iI used to follow too!”
This was the statement made by MANNA DEY, in one of the most prestigious newspaper THE HINDU.
“I am a great admire of this wonderful person Mohd Rafi. maiN hamesha sochta tha ki aisa talent bahoot rare logo ko milta hai. bahoot respect bhi mai karta tha unko. Rafi sahab hamare hindustan ke sangeet jagat me male singer ki haisiyat se sabse bada gaane wala hai.”
(manna dey speaks in legend series of HMV).
There a lot of such articles, interviews video recordings of MANNA DEY about the geniousness of Rafi saab. but if one is DEAF-DUMB-BLIND how could one believe the reality. Better to say , if someone did not understand after hearing his divine voice, then how could they know the reality after reading these words of legends. I really felt pity for them.
In 70’s a friend of Kishore Da exclaimed before him”aapne to Rafi ki Chhutti kar di”
The singer replied him in the most perfect way=He give him a good slap on his face.
Therefore it is better for raj type of people that kihore da I not alive today. Otherwise such people would have get many a slap for making such dirty remarks.
Refering Comment 550, Mr. Raj Who r u to declatre do u understand meaning of of declaration what do u think about urself that ur president of India or ur donating ur personal properties. Mr. Raj various of manna da vedio clips are available in youtube u may c there that he says
1) what he (Rafi Saab) does in his songs it comes as al land mark 4 us…
2) I (Manna da) also tried too much to sing like him but alas….
and which anti rafi comments ur refering to read it is similar like raj = roy
Remove ur ears & mind garbage and try to understand real voice, sweet voice, round voice, high & low pitch voice, Class,classical & semi classical voice,sad voice, commedy voice, shardha voice and and intitute of voice and many more qualities of Rafi And only Rafi saab. Be a sensible music lover open ur mind why do u refer others comment write ur own
Is Raj from Maharashtra ko GHANATASALA Ka Spelling Bhi Yhain Se Pata Chali. And he passes verdicts on Ghantasala, his voice etc. Raj, tell me just 20 songs of Ghantasala that you ever heard! The fact is that you do not even know who Ghantasala is and you go around bluffing!
Venakt
Raj from Maharashtra:
Ur are a paranoid bug – raj.
one day u say Kishore Kumar is superior than rafi.
when someone writes that ghantasala is better than rafi ; you
jump over – to congratulate him and second him..
There is a KK website for you raj the imposter. we will catch your
identity soon.
remember impersonating is a cognisable crime under the indian penal
code.
and rafi lovers please remember that ‘some ‘ crazy men come
to this portal and start writing that so and so singer is better than
rafi..
my advice to these confused persons is to go to ORKUT and write
these absurd stuffs.
Surely this portal is not ‘meant’ for such confused music lovers.
binu nair..
Raj: from Maharashtra:
Hello, from Maharashtra which place? are u hiding ur identity
and faking your identity again? I was expecting u here and u
have arrived yet ‘again’ to creat trouble as u are ‘paranoid’ about
rafi saabs popularity.
Listen : whay Manna dey said to an interviewer when asked
“what he wanted to become in his next birth”. the journo expected
that he would say that he wished to be born as manna dey again.
No, he did’nt say that. He said : he wanted to be born as the
legendary mohd rafi..
there are video clippings to this effect.
Please reveal ur identity – or else we will seek u out raj and
remember we do’nt approve your slot as a “trouble maker”.
the other kk portal is open for u to give your paranoid views.
we are not interested..
binu nair… the rafi foundation… mumbai.,.
Raj and Sid,
A few more points. Manna Dey never said in that interview of yours that Kishore was a better singer than Rafi Saab. Now, considering that he was speaking on the Death Anniversary of KK, he said KK was a very good/ great /top singer, etc. We also do not disagree that he is a very good singer.
In contrast, day in and day out, not only during Birth/Death anniversaries, Manna Dey keeps eulogising Rafi Saab to the extent of openly saying that Rafi was a beter singer than Manna Dey himself and all others!
Add to Manna Dey the following. SPB, Ravi, OPN, Naushad, MK, Suresh Wadkar and tens of other celebrities.
Venkat
Raj and Sid,
Ridiculous is the way you both have tried to grab a piece of straw as support in swimming the Indian Ocean!
Raj, on your challenge, I read the complete interview uploaded by Sid. Nowhere in that interview did Manna Dey say that Kishore is a superior singer to Rafi Saab. All that he said and meant was that after 1971, with a couple of freak hits of KK, he has become more sought after for a few years in HFM, that too only upto 1976 or so. Rafi Saab had regained his numero uno position from 1977 onwards till the end. When he said “with the advent of Kishore on the scene”, he meant from 1971. Otherwise, KK was very much on the scene fro donkey’s years right from early 50’s or even earlier, but could not even scratch the surface!
Manna Dey also came out in that interview u/led by Sid that he himself was disapproving of Kishore’s temporary ascent as it was undeserved! Observe his words, “capricious ways of this transient world”!
Unfortunately, unlike we Rafi fans, you guys do not get even an iota of material anywhere in your support. That is why you guys were eager to pile on to that interview without properly reading it.
Now, finally, you are talking of interviews. Forget it. I have with me on the hard disc a video of Manna Dey saying “Hum Sab Bhi Gaate Thhe, Lekin Rafi Saab Ke Nazdik Nahi Aa Sakte Thhe”. In that Video, he even said “I never had any hesistation in admitting that Rafi Saab was a better singer than myself”. And, he considers himself way way above KK! In that video he talks further about Rafi Saab’s voice modulation, expression, enunciation, etc. too in glowing terms.
If Pradeep Ji allows, I will upload that Video here!
I appreciate that you have waited so long for replying, as you yourself said. But, you need to wait indefinitely and endlessly!
Venkat
ref post 549
roy sir,
good to learn that you are in hyderabad. i too. pls give me your tel number. mine is 9949509592.