True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
I think what Mr. Binu Nair is asking the readers who are participating in this story-line thread to provide examples as shown below:
Rajshri Pictures released two movies “Taqdeer†and “Jeevan Mrithyu†in 1967 and 1969. Both these films were directly dubbed into several Indian regional languages.
In Malayalam “Taqdeer†became “Vidhi†and “Jeevan Mrithyu†became “Jeevitha Samaramâ€. Rafi and Lata’s songs tuned by Laxmikant Pyarelal were re-recorded in Chennai by LP’s top assistants. In Malayalam language, Yesudas and S. Janaki rendered the same compositions of LP with no change to the song structure and orchestration. The lyrics were re-written to fit the original compositions. The same songs were recorded with SPB and S. Janaki in the tamil versions. I don’t know who sang these in Telugu and Kannada. Perhaps, others can elaborate regarding this.
The Malayalam songs were superbly rendered by Janaki and Yesudas. “Mujhe Bhool Jaaye†became “Priye Pookku-killae†and “Jab Jab Bahar Aayi†became “Amritham Pakarna Raathriâ€. Yesudas maintained the exact tonal quality, range and feelings that Rafi Saab brought out in these songs. These two Malayalam songs could be considered to be in the top 50 songs that Sri. Yesudas has rendered in Malayalam. Janaki also did full justice to the Lata Mangeshkar songs in Taqdeer. Similarly, a few years later “Jeevitha Samaram†came out. The hit Rafi-Lata duet “Jhilmil Sitaron Ka†became “Chinnum Venn Tharathil†by Yesudas and S. Janaki and is still a very popular song in Kerala. Again, this song could be considered in the top 10 duet songs sung by the duo. A comparison of these songs between the hindi versions and other languages is justified in terms of singing ability, range, scaling and total wholesomeness of the song. Did the other singers capture the same essence of the songs similar to the way that Rafi Saab had interpreted them and rendered for LP ? This is the question to ask. I have to tell you that both these singers rendered these songs extremely well and the story goes that music directors LP were fully satisfied with every aspect of these recordings for the regional dubs.
The next point is make here is with the immortal song “O Duniya Ke Rakhwale†sung by Rafi Saab in Baiju Bawra (lyrics by Shakeel Badayuni and music by the legendary MD Naushad). Composed in Raag Darbari Kanada, this is a hallmark song in Hindi films and as everyone knows it clearly moved Mohd Rafi to the forefront as the dominant male singer in Hindi films during the 50’s and 60’s. It is considered to be one of the finest adaptations of a classical raaga in Indian film song history. What readers of mohdrafi.com may not know is that a song from a Malayalam movie “Nadhi†that came out in 1969-70 timeframe had possibly the best Malayalam song ever recorded named “Aayiram Padasarangal†by Sri. Yesudas. This song also in Raag Darbari Kanada is considered by known musicologists to be even better than “O Duniya Ke Rakhwaleâ€. Both Naushad and Rafi Saab upon hearing this song declared that “Aayiram Padasarangal†was a notch higher. Lyrics written by late Sri. Vayalar Rama Varma and set to music by ace MD G. Devarajan (he passed away in March 2006), the Charanam (first and second verses) of this song is considered to have fully captured the “essence†of Raag Darbari Kanada. Devarajan was clearly inspired by the Baiju Bawra song when he composed “Aayiram Padasarangalâ€, but he was able to tune it in such a way that no other film MD can ever touch this raaga again.
As a by-line to the above story, Sri. Yesudas rendered “O Duniya Ke Rakhwale†at the prestigious 1970 Filmfare Awards (correct me if I am wrong; this is the same year that LP won for “Jeene Ki Raahâ€) to thunderous applause. Mohd Rafi Saab was in the audience (I think Kishore won the best Singer Award for Aradhana at this Award show) listening. After the song was completed he rushed backstage, and with eyes brimming in tearful joy, he hugged Yesudas several times and declared that “you have surpassed my renditionâ€. I am so happy !! I am so happy !! That was Mohd Rafi Saab for all of us.
Mohd Rafi’s superb song “Jis Raat Ke Khwab Aaye†from the unreleased shelved movie “Habba Khaatoon†set to music by MD Naushad was re-recorded in 1987-88 timeframe by Naushad Saab himself for a Malayalam movie “Dhwaniâ€. The solo was converted to a duet and was sung by P. Susheela and Yesudas as “Anuraaga Lola Raathriâ€. This song is also considered as one of the best duets rendered by Yesudas and Susheela. Both singers fully captured the feelings rendered by Rafi Saab in the original song and MD Naushad was very pleased with the recording of “Dhwaniâ€. Every song in this movie can be classified as a classic and the entire music of “Dhwani†can be included as one of the best ever made for the Malayalam Film Industry.
The last point I would like to make is that the Indian film music industry is a very tough place to compete. Not everyone, even with a superb voice can succeed. The sound proof studio (recording theater), the recording equipment – high performance mikes, cables, recording instruments, tape machine players (in the 50’s till early 80’s) with large reel-to-reel tapes should be able to capture every part of the human voice when the sound gets captured on to a magnetic tape (in the old days).
For most humans, only about 50 to 60% of the voice is captured. This is the reason that many highly qualified singers (very accomplished in their particular field of music) leave recording studios dejected and empty-handed because their sound could not be properly transferred to tape. Besides the high level of classical music training, singing lessons, daily riyaaz, long practice sessions, superb voice control, breath control, timing, parity with orchestration, an ear for music, faith in the divinity – all the singers that we discuss often such as Mohd Rafi, Lata, Mukesh, KK, Asha, Manna Dey, Talat, Hemant, Suman K, Ghantasala, Yesudas, SPB, P. Susheela, S. Janaki, Jikki, P. Vasantha, Chitra, Sujatha many other leading singers in Kannada, Telugu, Bengali, Gujarati, Marathi, etc., plus the current singers since late 1980’s and onwards – all have the unique talent whereby their voice is captured on recording media at 95 to 100%. If this is not possible, none of these singers could have sustained and ruled the music world for these many years. They would have been pushed aside by more capable singers.
Also, during the 50’s till 80’s recording studio fee structures were so high – that everyone had to be fully accomplished when they came to the studio. Usually, there was very little time for long practice sessions and retakes, since the producers would get charged by the hour. Everyone had to work in unison to get in, record the song, and then get out. Music Directors were very careful as to who they selected to sing their songs and the musicians they required to play the background instruments.
There is no doubt that music is a god-given gift and that great Indian Film Industry singers are very special individuals, no matter whether they are from Punjab, Bengal, Andhra or Kerala.
My feeling is that replies posted back to articles we read in mohrafi.com require a lot more careful thought and preparedness before hitting the “submit” button.
Raj again replies with confidence pl.
first, Ramakrishna ji, vasu ji, other telugu readers
kudos for introducing ghantasala. I heard his voice today and the songs stated by sri vasuji/ramakrishnaji. I heard siva sankari – an excellent master classical piece indeed. it is marvellous and I was spell bound. I heard other songs also as stated by vasuji/ramakrishnaji and found them super and excellent – good talent show put up by ghantasala ji – a perfect male and majestic voice.
Coming next – binu nair ji and ramakrishna ji
i am not ashu or ashwini but raj. Don’t take me lightly. i won’t move unless I too have proved my point. Kishore kumar’s voice is more majestic (like that of ghantasala) than compared to rafi ji. Rafi’s voice is not complete manly. It tilts towards some female type. However some melody in his voice overcomes this defect. Many people are not able to analyse this point properly.
If you give list of rafi songs, I too give list of great songs sung by kk
1. jindagi ek safar he suhana (see vocal gimmicks – did rafi ever do that)
2. kora kagaz tha ye man mera (aradhana)
3. mere sapno ki rani kab aayegee tu (aradhana)
4. ye dil na hota bechara (jewel thief)
5. Ek shayar ki nazar – dream girl
I have observed past few days you people (Binu ji and ramakrishnaji) that you are writing in such a way as if you are capable of judging everything. least you understand that you are discussing about rafi, an old singer who died long back. KK was the voice of younger generation. Now it’s placefor younger generation only. no more old people like rafi pl. I am not bothered by you people words as I am motivated by KK song in amar prem
Kuch to log kahenge, logo ka kam he kehana, chodo yeh bekar ki baaten.
Ramakrishna ji and binu nair ji,
Binu nair ji – thank you very very much, I will wait for your eminent views pl.
Ramakrishna ji – my excuses for the mistake.
Hope to continue our discussions pl.
Dear Vasu ji and Ramkrishna ji:
I agree with your points and look forward to listening the
great songs of ghantasala master in the days to come. Our country
has produced the greatest talents and we are fortunate to have
born in this great era.
binu nair.
ref post -494,
vasu garu,
my answer to your first paragraph — ‘ a true Rafian is always benevolent & he does not make any comparison rather praises the worthy’
your last paragraph says ‘ You may not like accent of rafi after you hear the great ghantasala, but I can assure you that rafi’s melody is quite good in telugu songs’. here again you have diverted your compromising statement which you made in the begining of your letter. Please dont drift like this.
1. please note Rafi sahab is a Panjabi by birth. His accent is different. neverthless he sang in Telugu & made it melodious. Ghantasaala garu is telugu. Its natural that the diction will be better. We cant compare like this. In a similar way if Ghantassala garu would have sung in Hindi then it would have been the unpalatable. That may be the reason Ghantasaala garu did not sing in hindi.
2. You have addressed Rafi sahab as ‘ rafi ‘ only & Ghantasaala garu as ‘ great Ghantasaala ‘. It pains me very much.
It is for your information that we the rafians give respect to everybody. We address as Rafi sahab, Mukesh jee, Manna daa, Hemant daa, Kishore daa, Mahendre Kapoor jee, latha jee, Asha jee like that. We are inspired by rafi sahab to address like this.
I am sorry if I have hurt you. I love you.
Dear fans,
we can’t stop people who is not honest with true as some of KK fans said that KK is more famous than Mohd Rafi!!!!!
I will not say anything abount Sri GHANTASALA boz i don’t know anthing abount him jest i want to ask if he is great as Mohd Rafi Exp:in bollywood people said that music born in late 1940’s was child in 1950’s was young in 1960’s was old in 1970’s and no good music after 1980 if we are honest we will see all that boz of Mohd Rafi became in 1940’s became famous in 1950’s he singed most songs in 1960’s and it didn’t sing music in 1970’s as he singed in 1960’s and after 1980 we all agree there is no good music in bollywood.
People like Naushand,Shammi Kapoor,Madan Mohan,O P Nayyar,Ravi,Manny Dey,Raj Kapoor and many more what they said abount Mohd Rafi ever some one like them said for ur Sri GHANTASALA?????????waiting for answer plz don’t do what KK fans done before
Binu nair ji, ramakrishna ji & others,
It is quite happy that we have together placed ourselves at the same level at last i.e. as true music lovers of great legends. Indeed great.
Binu nair ji, i request you kindly to refer to my post 464, wherein I have brought in the details for hearing ghantasala songs. You may kindly follow that pattern pl. As said by sri ramakrishna ji, kindly first hear siva sankari song from the film jagadekaveeruni katha 4th film in the index; hear song naa paata nee nota from film mooga manasulu (1964); then hear from the film aaradhana 2 the song naa hrudayamlo nidurinche; and lastly the song chelikadu ninne from film kulagothralu (sung by ghantasala and p suseela)
We were also talking of padyams ( a unique telugu composition verses sung in dramatic style). I would also like to introduce you to one of the padyams of the legend. Kindly hear ‘bhalira’ a padyam from the film srikrishnaarjuna yuddam and give your views please.
In the same site, you will also feel happy to hear mohd. rafi songs in telugu from films such as Bhale tammudu, akbar salim anarkali etc. You may not like accent of rafi after you hear the great ghantasala, but I can assure you that rafi’s melody is quite good in telugu songs.
Kindly don’t forget to post your views after hearing the legends.
Regards, vasu
Rafi cloned is born in Holland you can lisent …www.amarsinger.com
the boys is born 31-07-1980 Rafi is Backkkkkkkkk…. the boys have the styl and voices and feeling…of Rafi saab…
ref post – 491, binujee I agree with you. let the people choose what they need. its their fate.
regarding the songs you wrote binujee i have a number of CDs where in I have a good collection of solos & duets of rafi sahab. but i will tell you a very comfirtable way.
please go to http://www.dishant.com, then go to ‘ old favourites’. you will get the alphabetical list of movies. Click on the movie name. you will get a number of songs. click on the ‘ lyrics ‘ to note down it or click on ‘ play ‘ to play the song.
my personal request go to the movie ‘ Mai Baap ‘ click on the song ‘ main hoon Mr johny’ sung by our legend. close your eyes & listen to it . you will feel Johny Walker himself is singing and there is no trace of rafi sahab at all.
and for Ghantasaala songs go to ‘ regional telugu’ . there you will find the names in similar way. but its my request go to movie ‘ jagadeka veeruni katha ‘ there you click the song ‘ siva sankari ‘ . listen to it. next go to ‘ mooga manasulu ‘ in that click ‘ naa paata nee nota ‘ & listen to it. I will recall this movie was made in hindi in the name of ‘ Milan ‘. this song in hindi is ‘ saawan ka mahina , pawan karey shor ‘
pls be in touch if you need any more information. me, murty, srinivasan, padmanabhan are with you from hyderabad .
Dear ramkrishna ji:
Please let the music lovers select their oranges, apples and grapes.
It is their right to do so.
Personally : I have a habit which I wish to reveal to you.
If ever a lad of even seven years go to the stage and say a few words
my applause for the lad would be the loudest. Why? Because he has
the guts to go up there. The same way I will respect any artiste –
for surely they will have some great USP in them.
And, since I am only a learner : can you please send me few songs
on the lines of : Bhagwan: oh duniya ke rakhwale; tu ganga ki mauj
mai nadiya kinara; mana re tu kaahe na dheer dhare; aano hai to
aa, koyi dher nahin hai, bhagwan ke ghar mein der hai andher nahin
hai; mujhe tum se mohabbat hai, magar mai keh nahi sakhta; Tum
ne mujhe dekha hokar meharbaan..; baharon phool barsao : the
hindi and english version ; Mai zindagi ka saath nibhata
chala gaya and the poetic essay : Mera man tera pyaasa : sung
by any singer including shri ghantasala – in their mother tongue.
As said earlier as a learner I would like to enlighten myself with the
works of great men. Besides: I will send you a sufi composition sung
by a 86 yearold singer from pakistan : which recently moved music
lovers to tears at a listening session.
binu nair. mumbai..
ref post – 488.
binu jee, I agree with you the lovers of Rafi sahab dont wear black glasses, because they dont get any infra radiation from anywhere in the music field where rafi sahab is absent.
They have an iorta of humility which probably they have inherited from Rafi sahab being his pujari. They dont critise or abuse any other artist emphasising the strength of rafi sahab only. again this quality also they have earned from rafi Sahab.
The basic reason for all this is ‘ a rose is a rose wherever it is ‘ and secondly ‘ the elephant is huge & stands tall wherever it is’.
But its so gentle. and thats our rafi sahab.
Hi raj:
After reading your post 485, certain doubts crept in to my mind.
Why are you giving your identity as a maharashtrian in this
forum. Is the reader interested in your origins? This is a
Mohd Rafi forum and Mohd rafi saab fans are least interested in your
origins/opinions – as you are a kishore kumar fan.
More: I want to know whether you are the same ashu/ashwini/etc
who used to visit this site in different disguises and write about
kishore kumar being better than mohd rafi and writing thrash about
legends including composer shankar-jaikishan . Your language in the
post is identical to that of ashu/ashwini/etc. etc. etc. (Post 485)
This ashu/ashwini ran away from this site when the heat became
unbearable and when shri haldar and anmol singh asked a few
questions about few kishore kumar songs and the raags associated
with them.
After a few months : like the proverbial dog’s tail and as expected
this ashu/ashwini/etc. etc has resurfaced again in the disguise of raj,
I presume.
If you are not the same ashu/ashwini/etc etc. as we now presume and
a genuine music lover as the case may be; you ought to reveal your
true identity along with your contactable adderesses.
Again , let me guide you to the Kishore Kumar forum which provide
ample scope for Kishore lovers to air their – often jaundiced views.
And : this is a serious international forum of rafi lovers; your
bluffs will not easily work here – again.
binu nair Mumbai
Mr. raj :
There is a kishore kumar site in which you have all the freedom
to write about Kishore ji a great talent of our times. In that site
there is lot of censorship : hence I have stopped visiting it.
Please also know well that Mohd rafi lovers do not wear black glasses;
they respect other artistes who have given their best to music lovers
besides believing that Mohd rafi is their best singer.
As for the comments on shri ghantasala, I request writers to pen
indebt articles on shri yesudas : another living legend; ghantasala
himself , balasubramanian , mohd rafi, k.l. saighal, talat mehmood
and other artists. This will benefit music lovers , I am sure.
binu nair.
ref post- 485. Mr Raj jee,
i dont know which post of you was erased & why . anyway I have nothing to comment or emphasise on this.
now coming to the comparison between Rafi Sahab & ghantasaala jee i agree with you that both are great.
now coming to the topic of comparison between Rafi sahab & KK I am mentioning the following points. Please go through them. Its not my intention to braiin wash you my friend.
1. Rafi sahab was the play back for KK in films like Shararat, Ragini etc while KK himself is a good play back singer.
2. Please listen to the CD ‘ tere bharosey nand lal ‘ . all bhajans rendered by Rafi sahab.
3. Now please listen to the following numbers of rafi sahab.
‘Aaj kal mani dhal gaya’ from beti bete. ( shankar jaikishan )
‘ Babul ki duaen leti jaa ‘ from neel kamal. ( Ravi )
‘ tujhko pukarey mera pyar ‘ from neel kamal. ( Ravi )
‘ sawan ki ghata chayi’ from kashmir ki kali. ( O . P. Nayyar )
‘ o haseena zulphon wali ‘ from teesri manzil. ( R.D. Burman )
‘ main zindagi ka saath ‘ from hum dono. ( Jaidev )
‘ main hoon mr johny ‘ from mai baap. ( O.P. Nayyar )
‘ Japan.. Love in tokyo ” from Love in Tokyo ( Shankar Jaikishan )
‘ Chalkaey Jaam ” from mere humdum mere dost ( L.P.)
‘ Hari Om ‘ from Baiju Bawra ( Naushad )
‘ Jaag diley diwana ” from oonche log ( Chitragupt )
‘ Jeet hi lengey baazi hum tum ‘ from Shola aur shabnam ( Khayyam )
‘ Rang aur Noor ki’ from Gazal ( Madan mohan )
‘ Jab bhi yeh dil udaas hota hai’ from Seema ( Shankar Jaikishan )
‘ Yeh desh hai veer jawanon ka ” from naya daur ( O.P. Nayyar )
You have mentioned only one song of KK but I have mentioned 15 songs of Rafi sahab which is just like a drop of water from the ocean. In these songs please listen to the melody, diction and throw of the words. On the silver screen when you see you will forget Rafi Sahab & visualise as if the actor himself is singing . Its unique.
Ghantasaala, KK, Hemanth, manna dey, Talat, Mukesh, lata, Asha, geetha dutt are very very good.
But Rafi sahab is an all rounder. He is divine & irreplaceable.
This is my view.
ref post- 482, binu jee
i have not taken this issue personal. i request you pls dont take that way.
your post – 473 you have mentioned Rafi Sahab excells in all languages. he has rendered marvellous in hindi while his mother tongue is panjabi. i agree with you my dear friend binu jee. i love you for this view of yours as I am an ardent pujari of Rafi Sahab since my very childhood.
but in your way of comparison i found that you are putting your opinion that apple excells orange.
i can say that Rafi sahab represents the state of a cloudless sky on a full moon night when there is a soft breeze & Ghantasaala garu represents the state of a cloudless sky on a new moon night with billions & billions of twinkling stars smiling at us.
both these states are mindblowing.
Hello publisher, My message also has been erased similar to ramakrishna ji. I agree with mr. Ramakrishna ji that binu nair alone is not having right to comment. we too have same rights please.
I was mentioning I am from Maharashtra and of the firm view that kishore kumar is better than rafi. Hear bane chahe dushman jamana hamara, you will note that kishore sang more beautiful than rafi.
Coming to ghantasala, though I don’t know him, as stated by some friends, i read his encyclopaedia from google. com and could understand his greatness. It states that a recepient of padmashri in the 60’s and a man with the most majestic voice. Upon reading, I think he might be one of the greatest singers in India, perhaps more than rafi. After all, a recepient of padmashri that too in 60’s and that too from the south, cannot be taken lightly. If I get opportunity I will definitely hear voice of ghantasala. Kishore kumar though eligible for padmashri was denied due to some political reasons. Kishore’s voice is more attractive than rafi.
I also agree with mr.vasu (post 484) that you have to compare based on voice, melody, skill, talent etc. and language is not a bar there. So I feel comparison between ghantasala and rafi is not wrong.
Mr.Binu Nair,
You have not exactly caught the meaning in our words. I want to frankly bring to your notice that there is a general impression among the north and west public that rafi’s voice is the voice of the millenium, greatest voice etc. But our intention is only to throw light that before judging that you have to conduct research on other voices of India. With this intention I had written about ghantasala, who possessed a majestic, melodious and golden voice and was the southern films singer (mostly telugu) from 1944-74
If you say rafi voice as true voice, then voice of ghantasala has also to be taken as true voice of india or millenium. The comparison is based at voice level, melody level, talent and skills at music level. This does not require comparison between hindi or any language. Talent can be compared without giving way to language. I wish to quote one point in this regard; The great emperor krishnadevaraya of vijayanagara empire who knew almost all languages of india, declared telugu as the best among all languages. So to be a scholar in telugu language and ghantasala being a telugu language singer is indeed unique. Our intention is not to underestimate rafi, but only to enlighten so called people who are being carried away by wrong impression that rafi alone is a man with melodious voice. As quoted by ramakrishna ji, kindly don’t erase messages pl.
Sir RAMAKRISHNA,
as wrote by Sir Binu the comparison of apples and oranges was mean that u should compare Mohd rafi with some one from Bollywood not hollywood or some place else.
Sir India is so big country maybe more than 20% they don’t know who is Mohd Rafi(as I thinK).
Sir plz try to compare him with telugu singer and compare mohd Rafi with Hindi singer u will see that there is no one can be compare with Mohd rafi as said by Manny Dey and many more greatest people who know abount music.
There many who said that KK is better than Mohd Rafi and some compare Mohd Rafi with Lata ji boz they are sure and there is no male singer can be compare with him now it is same going on to compare Mohd rafi with a singer from other language singing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
ramkrishna ji:
Instead of getting personal I will appreciate if you would read
my comments again and give your views based on it.
binu nair.
hello publisher I am sorry my comments you have erased. does it mean that binu can write anything just because he is the main person for the foundation . we too are there. i wrote whats this comparison of apples and oranges. after all we are discussing between two great playback singers of India. Does binu think that rafi sahab is apple and Ghantasaala garu is Orange, or vice versa. this is a very cheap way of comparing … I am so sorry. if i would have written like this then the same binu would have commented in a much more bitterway than what I did. I am sorry to say this. this is a forum for all Rafi sahab’s fans , so no partiality please.
Sastry garu, Murthy garu, Vasu garu and others,
Firstly, what makes me very happy and also pleasantly surprised is that my second favorite singer out of all male and female singers, namely Sri GHANTASALA VENKATESWARA RAO garu, has such vociferous support even in national forums such as this.
Murthy garu, we are not discussing wheether SPB is great or Ghantasala is great, as you tried to make out at one place! Ghantasala is at least 3 times greater than Balu! But, Balu is great enough and greater than all here to give the verdict!
Now, on the main issue, I never said (nor Balu ever said) that Ghantasala is not great! He is indeed very, very great. Look, friends, even at the cost of sounding immodest, I need to say this. Many people become Rafi fans and claim that they know Rafi Saab based on some 70 to 100 of his very popular and well-known songs! Rafi Saab has sung for nearly 250 MDs (a world record!), not just for Sj or SDB or LP Or OPN. To know him fully, one should know Husnlal Bhagatram, A.R.Quereshi, Ghulam Mohammed, Ghulam Hyder, Sajjad Hussein, N.Datta, not to speak of the likes of Iqbal Quereshi, Lachhiram, Babul, G.S.Kohli, C.Arjun, Vinod, etc. The list is endless!
In all humility, let me say I have collected/heard/studied over 1500 songs of Rafi Saab in addition to another 500 which I know, have heard, but have not collected. I still do not claim that I know Rafi fully because there are still many rare numbers of his that I do not know. But, even out of these 2000, there are about 150-200 ‘divine’ songs, about 700-800 ‘very good’, ‘great’, ‘excellent’ songs and another 300-400 ‘good’ songs. I am sure no other male or female singer can match up to these numbers in each category!
Now, Padyam is a song form that is unique only to Telugu and none can deny that Ghantasala is the Master of that. Only the other day, I had uploaded in HF that heart-rending Padyam of his in Film:Sarangadhara for NTR, “Jagamu Naa Seelamu, Satyammu Gamaninchi Nannu Doshiganenchakunna Chhalu”, peened by Samudrala (Sr.).
But, it should be nobody’s case that Rafi Saab didn’t sing Padyams and so he is not as great!
Simply put, based on the 2000 songs that I know of Rafi Saab, I can assert, affirm with conviction that there is no other singer with SUCH TREMENDOUS QUANTITY OF SONGS OF SUCH MIND-BOGGLING QUALITY AND OF SUCH UNIMAGINABLE VARIETY/VERSATILITY. Period.
The keywords above are Quantity, Quality, Variety/Versatility. And I canot help adding to this his superior voice modulating ability and his ease in throwing in ‘sangats’ even in very light songs!
This is not to say that my second favorite singer, Ghantasala is not great. He is indeed very very great. I often use MD:Ravi’s quote that one needs to hear Rafi Saab with one’s heart and not just ears. Quite frankly, I feel that this prescription applies even to Ghantasala in a large number of his “Manasunu Kadilinche” songs!
Venkat
Previously it was a discussion on Kishore vs rafi; now its rafi vs
ghantasala.
Music lovers : please compare apples with apples and not with oranges.
What I mean to say is : When u are talking about hindi film music;
pls do not divert to your language/linguistic feelings. Please talk of
hindi language singing.
also I am sure that rafi ji would have excelled in any language with
a little practice. Hindi is not his mother tongue; its punjabi. Yet, how
well he sang in hindi.
rafi just had basic education. Yet, hear his english numbers : they are
impeccable, haunting and melodious. These were recorded some 40 years
back and its fresh as a flower : to this day. Any language under the sun
rafi ji would put in the effort and come out trumps.
So, my friends please compare apples with apples and oranges with
oranges.
Binu Nair Sargam Music The rafi foundation Mumbai.
Dear venkatadri ji,
i continue pl. I missed one point. In the film Khandaan, (starring sunil dutt) in Hindi, one bhagavad geeta sloka, Yada yada he dharmasya, was sung by ghantasala followed by rafi song. Similarly, in suvarna sundari hindi film sanskrit slokam lakshmim ksheera samudra raja tanayam was sung by ghantasala whereas other songs were sung by rafi. This is the speciality of ghantasala. I think you have not properly analysed ghantasala as a whole and comparing only with songs of rafi ji. Observe the sharpness of voice of ghantasala along with melody when it goes to high pitch. I don’t think rafi can be similarly compared. You were also mentioning SPB. Do you know that ghantasala himself selected SPB in 1966 ? SPB was also referring to only songs of rafi ji. If SPB were to deal with padyams, he cannot compare rafi with ghantasala. Does rafi have any song equivalent to siva sankari or rasika raja (from jayabheri film) of ghantasala in terms of classical or speed etc. I don’t think so. so, My dear friend, analyse ghantasala from all corners, songs, padyams,slokams etc. You will know the versatality range. I have many hindi friends who acknowledge voice of ghantasala on par with rafi though i personally rate ghantasala more due to his extra talent as described above. But surprise to me is, being a telugu man you have not been able to throw light on this special point.
for hindi/other language friends simply go to google. com and type ghantasala. Read his encyclopaedia. You will know all about him.
Dear Venkatadri and others
I am also a telugu person and equal in age i.e.above 50 and brought up equally in telugu vs. hindi songs. Rafi no doubt sings quite well with melodious voice. But as said by some friends, i fully agree that while coming to padyalu or singing slokams in sanskrit, rafi is no where near ghantasala. This perhaps you will also agree. Hear padyams of ghantasala where he is incomparable. His voice is so melodious and sharp and quick that it is unimaginable to catch the beauty. You have missed this point and comparing only songs. Pl. note.
Dear Ghantasala fans,
i don’t want to say anything abount Ghantasala because I don’t know anything abount him but jest i want to say something abount singer was compared with Mohd rafi by media with mohd Rafi before, there was Talat Ji but Talat ji said abount Mohd Rafi that his voice is the gift of God and Mohd Rafi made his voice to the God,Compared with Manney Day and Manny dey said that he can not be compare with Mohd rafi boz Mohd Rafi is the better than him,with mukesh said that he is fan of mohd Rafi,yesdas is better than Mohd rafi but yesdas said that Mohd rafi is the best,some said that SPB is better than Mohd Rafi but SPB said when he listen to Mohd Rafi he feel that he is not half singer.with KK fans and many said that KK is better than Mohd Rafi we can’t stop any one to say that!!!!!!
I don’t know abount music but i want ask who said that he know abount Music May I ask them they know more than Naushand Ali or Madan Mohan or O P Nayyar boz Naushand said that Mohd Rafi was 50% of his music,Madan Mohan said he should not be paid when Mohd Rafi singed for him,O P Nayyar and Shammi Kapoor said If there was no Mohd Rafi there was no O P Nayyar and same said by Shammi Kapoor.
plz give me big names who said that some one is better than Mohd Rafi who know what is music mean not like KK fans one them said that Rajesh Khanna said that KK is the best singer and Rajesh Khanna said Anwer can sing better than Mohd Rafi who is Rajesh Khanna in world of music?!!!
plz be honest
Mr. murthy ji, Mr. ASR Murthy, Mr.Venkadri, Mr Ramakrishna and
other esteemed friends and readers
I feel happy to receive all your comments. I have given my own views and happy to note your views.
I am also equally happy to note that some non telugu people even somebody from United states have acknowledged the greatness of voice of ghantasala; this is indeed great. When other language people have expressed wonderful feelings about ghantasala’s voice it is indeed heart rendering.I feel that one of the supreme voices have also reached to people who do not know him. Good.
Mr. Murthy ji, one small request pl. We are discussing here in open and balanced way. Some people out of emotion without knowing the greatness of genius, may spell something but I think we should not lose balance. Kindly don’t criticise SPB or any singer and the comment by balamuralikrishna garu, I am not aware, since I feel that if I am A in music, the giant is Z in music. Anyhow thanks for your comments on my analysis. Thanks to all.
Mr. Venkatadri
I agree that s p balu has said the statement. OK. But have you noted vasu’s observations i.e. singing padyalu and slokams which is only unique in sanskrit and southern languages i.e. mostly telugu. i 100% feel when it comes to padyalu no body can match ghantasala. You have to see the talent and skill as a whole not restricting it to some areas. Mr. Vasu has covered the same in his commentary in more analytical way. Even I think, SPB cannot dispute this fact.
One fact I should tell which elders used to tell in olden days that the great carnatic giant balamuralikrishna had said that SPB has not sung the songs in sankarabharanam in a proper way rather he also committed some mistakes. I am not a musician so I cannot comment on this but this is only for information. You know despite his experience SPB cannot even sing today padyalu even to the extent of 1/4th of ghantasala. SPB might have referred to the beauty in songs of rafi ji, mr. venkatadri may kindly note.
Mr. Vasu,
You rigtly think that you are qualified to give the judgement and equally, I too rightly think I am qualified to do so.
So, let us see what S.P.Balu’s view is on this issue. Everyone should agree that he is more qualified than you, I and, in fact, more qualified than all the posters here!
S.P.Balu said many times, on TV, in personal discussions among friends and associates, as follows. (Mind you , he keeps saying this again and again, purely on his own, without being asked by anybody!)
He says, “Ghantasala Mastaru, Inka Endaro Goppa Gayakulu Unnaru. Kaani, Rafi Garu Andinchinanta ‘Theeyani Badha’, ‘Theeyani Sukham’ Evvaru Ivva Ledandi!” It means, “There are very great singers such as Ghantasal Mastaru and others, but the ultimate sweet pain and sweet happiness were not given to me by any other singer!”
And, my quote of S.P.Balu and also his overall view are nothing new! It is well known to all keen music lovers!
If Rafi Saab is 100, Ghantasala is about 92!
Venkat
ref post – 463,
dear Murty garu,
we cant say Rafi sahab is great in rendering romantic numbers where Ghantasaala garu lacks & Ghantasaala garu is great in rendering Bhakti geetham where rafi sahab lacks. Its alrogether two corners.
rafi sahab’s ‘Hari om’ number from baijubawra vibrates us similar to ‘Chitapata chinukulu padutu vuntey’ of Ghantasaala garu. So both are equally great.
if you ask my opinion I will say I respect Ghantasaala garu where as I love Rafi sahab. I bow my head to Ghantasaala garu where as I wish to hug Rafi sahab.
I respect Ghantasaala garu where as I love Rafi sahab. I feel as if I possess him.
I am a bengali person currently employed in Andhra Pradesh. I do not know telugu but well conversant with Hindi. My wife always tells me that she can’t imagine anybody singing better than rafi and so am I though I am little open. But reading the interesting discussion going on, I want to share one of my recent experiences.
I happened to hear one telugu cassette titled ‘Naada Brahma – Ghantasala’ recently given by a telugu colleague. In that record I came to hear two songs of ghantasala as mentioned by our esteemed readers here. One is the suvarna sundari film song (hayi hayiga in telugu & kuhu kuhu in hindi by rafi and lata) and the other is siva sankari of ghantasala. Though I didnt know the lanuguage I was spell bound by the voice of ghantasala. The song in suvarna sundari telugu one by ghantasala is more controlled and commanding than rafi ji. It even perhaps dominates lata mangesh-kar’s bit in hindi. And the other one siva sankari – it is really wonderful. My wife was also perplexed. I think siva sankari is one of the classical masterpiece of ghantasala. I have shared my experience. In a nutshell, I conclude that WHEN YOU YEAR GHANTASALA, HE IS THE BEST, AGAIN WHEN YOU HEAR RAFI, HE IS THE BEST. BOTH ARE EQUALS/LEGENDS
Hi friends,
I am from US and was delighted to view this site and the discussions going on about who is best singer. I am from Andhra Pradesh and settled in US. I am having with me collection of many songs of both rafi and ghantasala and equally enjoy both singers, whom I consider each of them best in their own fields. As someone observed if romance comes beautiful in rafi ji’s songs, devotion attains supreme importance in ghantasala songs. Even some musician sri vasu has compared in analytical way based on musical talent, the reading which is quite interesting, and perhaps might be true since I am not eligible enough to comment since I am not a trained musician. I may also state that my hindi friends can judge ghantasala only after hearing his voice which is quite melodious and majestic. I have made my US friends hear some of best of ghantasala songs who do not know any language only but english, and I feel proud to say that they felt spell bound on hearing voice of ghantasala. Their simple remark was : what a melodious voice ; indeed rare.
Dear vasu,
i think u should not compare the same song singed by both singer and one singer singed that song 50 years ago and other 30 years ago,only u can compare if both songs are same and singed same time and same words used in both songs.
Why people said that music born in late 1940’s was child in 1950’s was young in 1960’s was old in 1970’s and no more in 1980’s?if u think honestly all because of Mohd Rafi.
There was some famous actor in 1960’s but where was they when they didn’t used mohd Rafi voice in 1970’s?
Plz give only one flim name in which RD Burman gave music ans all songs are hit without Mohd Rafi ?
why u want compare Ghantasala with Moh Rafi not with KK or other singer?
post 463
Dear A S Murty ji,
I don’t agree with your view. that is not the way to compare two legends. The view of comparison by sri vasu in post 460 & 466 appears to be more balanced pl. Pl. carefully read what he says, he is impartial in his discussions on both singers. If you say romanticism in ghantasala songs is less than rafi ji, then it can equally be said that the devotional talent of ghantasala in his devotional songs is far supreme that rafi ji and this you cannot deny it ; hear bhagavad gita etc. you know it. so don’t compare two legends like this. you are focussing only on one particular area
but comparison should be made in an analytical & balanced way as made by sri vasu. i fully agree with views of sri vasu
I also state that I am a big fan of rafi ji and believe that if rafi is the voice of the north, ghantasala is the voice of the south. that is it.
My dear friends,
I feel very happy and thankful for participating in the debate. I had in my earlier analysis earnestly requested all the friends and readers to give a patient reading to my discussion but it appears that without giving detailed and patient reading to my commentary people are hurrying on with their views. I already said that I am myself a big admirant of rafi ji & his many beautiful songs. But here I state that I am openly discussing i.e. neither as a fan of ghantasala or fan of rafi ji, but as a person possessing knowledge of music, good knowledge of both languages and my research as a musician of many other singers in different languages. With my extensive research, I thought fit to openly compare these two singers of India, whose voices appeared supreme to me in the Indian film world. No reader is clearly able to clarify the points which I have mentioned. I had clearly requested to hear the songs which were sung by both singers and said that you can yourself decide. I never said that rafi is not a good singer or he cannot do justice to a particular song. He is a very well trained student of hindustani music. I clearly stated that when comparison is made it should be made at the talent and presentation level which analysis can be made as i feel only by experts such as people possessing good knowledge of music etc. I was clearly mentioning that when you hear a particular song in a particular raga, the beauty of raga appears to be more majestic in the voice of ghantasala than rafi in that particular song. that does not mean that rafi is singing with imperfection. That is why i have clearly used the word in a narrow and thin range. I request readers and friends to give patient reading of my earlier analysis and also to give patient hearing to the same songs sung by both singers; that is the way to compare. Lata Mangeshkar, acclaimed to be best among female singers, has herself in 1969 stated that voice of ghantasala is incomparable. Why I am stating this is because as i Have earlier said only experts can decide comparison.
I again repeat, I am equal admirer of both singers, both are experts and legends/masters in their own respective fields and this is purely and open discussion without any impartial feeling. But I feel some of our readers are bent upon supporting their own feelings or their own interest. That is not my view pl.
all the singers are good. we cant say who is good or who is not good. they are definitely better than us as they have been blessed by the almighty with this beautiful art of music. but coming to the rationalisation & rock bottom analysis we go on streamlining with a selection depending upon the situation. a situation of joy, sorrow, melancholy& spiritual state. in this way some touch us with a momentary jerk, some touch our feelings,some touch our heart & finally only one touches our soul. and that becomes his permanent haven. for me its non other than RAFI sahab & am very sure that it holds good for all my rafian friends.
and at the emotional angle I have the vibration that RAFI sahab is the elder brother of my mother. my mother is aware of this sacred feeling of mine. whenever I tell this to my mother she gives a very very open hearted smile. for me the smile of such magnitude from my mother is invaluable.
I bow my head to you RAFI sahab for germinating this feeling within me.
Rafi saab visited Kerala from 1958 onwards with his dear malayali
friend shri ahmed bhai who is now settled in calicut and passing on
the magic of rafi saab to any music lover who cares.
That rafi did not sing a “malayali song” is a – mystery to me. Is it
because rafi saab could not give perfection to the proposed number?
Remember : I have yet to find a rafi song that has been sung imper-
fectly by the genious.
binu nair : Sargam Magazine : the rafi foundation – Mumbai.
Dear friend,
Chal ud ja re panchi sung my Rafi ji is sung as Paya ninche o chiluka by ghantasala in telugu film kuladaivam
Kuhu Kuhu koyal gaye by Rafi & Lata in hindi film suvarna sundari is sung by Ghantasala and Krishnaveni from telugu film suvarna sundari
Hear siva sankari telugu song sung by ghantasala from telugu film jagadekaveeruni katha and compare with rafi’s any top classical song. You will yourself decide after you hear this song what is the talent and skill of ghantasala
You can hear this songs free on dishant home music i.e http://www.dishant.com/telugu-albums-index.html or alternatively go to google. com and type dishant home music which contains songs of hindi, telugu, tamil, bengali etc. hear from there by clicking on the film names stated above.
I have been watching this debate over who is the better singer Mohd Rafi Sahab or Ghantasala. I too, like many more who have commented earlier, am a Telugu person and from Hyderabad. I too, like Mr. Vasu, have studied in Kendriya Vidyalaya and have more than enough knowledge of both Hindi and Telugu. I too, Mr. Venkatadri, am past 50 years of age and have seen the best of both the singers. I agree with Mr. Venkatadri that Mohd. Rafi sahab is atleast two to three notches above Ghantasala. Nay, I would go on to add that Mohd. Rafi sahab is on a different level altogether and despite Ghantasala’s verstality and range, the latter can only be pale shadow of the former. Ghantasala could not have rendered some of the romantic songs like Mohd. Rafi sahab did. Surely no other singer from the Hindi-belt could put those extras in the romantic songs that Mohd. Rafi came up with in song after song. Ghantasala too did not have that very special feeling and he sang in similar notes and tones for all the actors. Rafi sahab was different. One can easily identify a song belong to a film from Dilip Kumar based on the style of singing that Rafi had presented. So also is true for Shammi Kapoor, Jitendra, Dharmendra and sometimes even for Devanand. Ghantasala at best could sing in a particular style for N.T.Rama Rao and also for A. Nageswara Rao. But there again, the styles were limited only in imitating their respective voices. But the depth of romantiscism was sadly absent from Ghantasala’s songs.
Post 460
Dear Vasu,
You have probably brought the details of Rafi saab and Ghantasala garu in an analytical way. Being south indian I have heard the bhava geets n bhajans of Ghantsala garu but yet to hear any hindi/urdu songs of the legend.
I think it is fair to compare a hindi legend with hindi based films songs only and a southindian legend with south based film songs like SPB garu n Yesudasji. In hindi it can be Lata Vs Asha and so on so forth.
Next if u analyse properly Rafi saab was at a great disadvantage because of a Punjabiyath Urdu and those who know both Punjabi n Urdu well and have not learnt Sanskrit well will definitely struggle with Sanskritised hindi songs.
But Rafi saab inspite of these issues came out best in many songs of Baiju Bawra,Basant bahaar,Mrig Trishna,beti bete,Jai Hanuman,Ramayan,Har Har Mahadeo,kalpana and many more film songs. Even in non-filmi songs Rafi saab came out the best.
So let us enjoy the two legends separately like PB Srinivas garu or SPB garu would have ,for whom both the legends are awe inspiring till this date.
Dear Ghantasala fans,
chal ud jaa re panchi in film bhabhi, was singed by Talat ji first then it gave to Mohd Rafi boz it was not good as MD want.
Ghantasala would some one give me link of song chal ud jaa re panch singed by Ghantasala and othere songs, as some one said that Ghantasala as know southern rafi in yesteryears if it is true it mean that he is less than Mohd Rafi,What said by people who know abount music abount Mohd rafi I don’t think these words can be used for other singer.I think in there are many who don’t know who is Ghantasala offourse it don’t mean that he was not good singer but as i think singer like Mohd Rafi never born again as said by many MD.
Friends,
The topic has become quite interesting one. I am a telugu person & I wish to give my personal and humble views on this discussion on Ghantasala Vs. Rafi, both acclaimed to be great singers. I am well trained in classical carnatic music and equally conversant with hindi songs also since I have studied in Kendriya Vidyalaya from Hyderabad and with all humility I feel that I am eligible to comment since I feel I possess some knowledge with regard to music as well as both languages. I have done sufficient research on both singers by comparing their number of many type of songs and I personally feel that at least in a narrow & thin range Ghantasala scores over rafi. I will substantiate this with the following examples. I feel friends can give patient reading to these points.
1. Question of versatility & talent: Ghantasala was not only a singer in telugu language but he also sang tamil and kannada songs with excellent command, clarity and melody in those languages. Even in a telugu film panduranga mahatyam, compositions were in Hindi and Marathi, which ghantasala rendered with perfection. On the other hand, you yourself will agree that Rafi could not do proper justice to telugu songs. Hear Ghantasala singing Bhagavad Gita in sanskrit and you feel as if Lord Krishna is talking. Such was his talent in singing in different languages. Besides he was a leading Music Director as stated by some of our friends.
2.Being a musician, I have observed Ghantasala singing some famous ragas such as Sankarabharanam, bilahari etc. carnatic ragas, and siva sankari and some Bhakta jayadeva songs in hindusthani styles which are quite exemplary and beautiful. His talent (perhaps due to his majestic voice) perhaps rendered beauty to those ragas. Even accomplised carnatic classical singers could not do justice to the ragas which appear quite attractive when ghantasala sings. Hear ghantasala singing Manikya Veena in Mahakavi Kalidasu at a high pitch and compare rafi with him. You will yourself decide. I have carefully heard rafi ji singing Madhuban me radhika nache re. Compare the same with Nee Madhu Murali song from Bhakta Jayadeva of Ghantasala which is more majestic when you concentrate on the raga and music.
3. As our friends abserved, Hear Hayi hayiga amani from telugu suvarna sundari sung by ghantasala and the same song sung by rafi and lata in hindi suvarna sundari. The sung was first sung by ghantasala and subsequently sung by rafi. It was told that Music Director Adi Narayana Rao stated that rafi himself claimed that despite numerous practice, he is not able to sing and do justice akin to ghantasala and requested adi narayana rao to twist the versions in the song in a more comfortable way and this was done. You can compare both of these songs and you will yourself decide.Not an exaggeration but a fact. Similarly Rafi ji first sang chal ud jaa re panchi in film bhabhi, the same was sung by ghantasala subsequently as paya ninche o chiluka in telugu film kuladaivam which I say is more melodious and in high pitch and beautiful. Rafi ji himself commemorated ghantasala on this. This was reported in Eenadu telugu newspaper one day.
4. Ghantasala was adept in singing slokas and padyams ( a unique versions in dramatic style) where he is incomparable especially when singing in special ragas such as sankarabharanam, bilahari etc. The ragas appear so beautiful when heard in his voice. Perhaps instruments may also not render beauty to such ragas.
5. Last but not the least is the bhava factor i.e. feeling one should get when one hears a song. Hear ghantasala’s devotional songs; it appears as if a great devotee himself is singing; hear his tragedy and emotional songs; it appears a person in great tragedy is himself singing; hear his comedy songs and it can be clearly made out that a comedian is singing and so on. Hear his song siva sankari and note the talent and devotion. This is in hindustani style and note the speed and high pitch in the song. That is all.
As some our friends stated, it is beautiful, I repeat the same words of my friends here:
People are able to compare rafi ji with kishore kumar etc. But it is not an exaggeration to say that no body can compare anybody with Ghantasala even till today. Such is his majestic voice. As stated by P B Srinivas, leading singer of south that Ghantasala’s voice is Kanchu Kantha, meaning the impregnable voice. The famous hindusthani singer raghunath panigrahi has sung with ghantasala in the telugu fim jayabheri in song Madi Sarada Devi and you can yourself decided the strength in the voice of ghantasala and his concentration and doing justice to the kalyani Raga.
I am an equal admirant of rafi ji, whose songs give immense pleasure when heard, no doubt about it but i again feel that rafi ji can do full justice in medium and slow ranges but in high pitches and in bhava factor he falls back behind ghantasala.
Any how both are great singers and enjoy both voices at all times
These are my humble views. Readers can listen to above songs which are freely available these days in internet and give their views pl. Hope it is an intersting discussion.
Friends,
I am just seeing this Rafi vs. Ghantasala discussion. Let me give my take on the subject.
I am a Telugu peson, who is past 50, who was born and brought up on Ghantasala’s telugu songs along with Rafi Saab’s Hindi songs!
All I can say is this. Ghantasala is a very great singer. Like Rafi Saab, he too has excellent voice range and is equally comfortable at extreme low and extreme high pitches. Under some of the greatest MDs of Telugu, he had rendered hundreds of excellent, ever-lasting songs. What is more, he himself was one of the leading MDs of Telugu too!
But, on balance, Rafi Saab is at least 2 to 3 notches higher than Ghantasala as a singer. Ghantasala is versatile, but not as versatile as Rafi Saab. In voice modulation and bringing in ‘vocal gimmicks’ (also commonly known as Rafi Saab’s Harkatein/Adaayen), Rafi Saab clearly scores over Ghantasala!
Bringing into this topic Rafi Saab’s Telugu songs is irrelevant, because my above comparision is based on Rafi Saab’s Hindi songs with Ghantasala’s Telugu songs. I belive Rafi Saab’s Telugu songs, that way, are no great shakes! Even Rafi Saab had sung his less than 10 Telugu songs quite reluctantly and because of utmost pressure from NTR and his brother-in-law, who was the producer of Bhale Tammudu (1969).
Incidentally, someone earlier was saying that Rafi Saab had sung Telugu songs only after Ghantasala expired. It is not true. Rafi Saab had sung his first Telugu songs for Bhale Tammudu (1969), even as Gahntasala was alive!
In sum, Ghantasala is very great, but Rafi Saab has got to be greater!
Venkat
Dear Magic master,
When we are talking about ghantasala venkateshwar rao, the golden singer of the south as superior to Mohd. Rafi ji, why are you bringing in kishore kumar songs with rafi songs. I think the topic is irrelevant. Just hear Ghantasala songs (read 4 to 5 articles below) and you will yourself decide what to say. It is not an exaggeration but a fact. You have to decide after you have heard ghantasala.
Mr BOND007 for KK site under article “The Darker Truth” we rafi fans are not denying the facts you are denying all contributions of rafi saab after 1969 there are lot of hit songs which u ignored, taste has been changing at regular intervals or timr to time it doest matter, matter is that who is more tallented rafi or kishor could kk sing O duniya ke Rakwale, have kk song in his entire life like madhuban mein radhika, no never here I can say you word What does Monkey know a smell of Jasime above all u counted that kk was young stars choice then why my dear kk couldn’t sing Nafrat Ki Dunya why on that time Rajesh Khanna not chose KK, my dear this is the fact and u deny we appreciate all of them not like u a testless and blind fan
Another point I have missed please. As stated by our friend the song by rafi saheb from the film geet – mere mitwas was sung by rafi ji in 1976 i.e. after passing away of ghantsala. Kindly note.
Kindly hear the following songs :
1. chal ud ja re panchi by Rafi saheb in film Bhabi subsequently sung by ghantasala in telugu as paya ninche o chiluka which is in more high pitch and more melodious . this was stated by rafi ji himself
2. Hayi Hayiga Aamani from suvarna sundari telugu film sung by ghantasala & subsequently sung my rafi and lata mangeshkar in hindi. You will yourself decide after you hear this song. Rafi saheb in certain terms declared the telugu song as the supreme.
3. Also hear ghantasala singing sanskrit sloka lakshmi samudra raja tanayam in Hindi Suvarna Sundari and give your conclusions.
4. Last but not the least hear the song siva sankari of ghantasala from telugu film jagadekaveeruni katha. This song is superior in all ways viz., classical, speed, high pitch with complete clarity etc. I feel rafi has no song equalling this song of ghantasala. I had made some of my friends who do not know telugu language and from other parts of India, and they stood spell bound on hearing this song stating what kind of talent ghantasala possesses.
5. I admire rafi, do doubt, but his songs are quite excellent only in slow and medium ranges but in speed and high pitches his voice undergoes a change. But in case of Ghantasala the same clarity and melody is maintained in any type of pitch and any type of song.
Please hear rafi saabs telugu songs and one from the remake of
g e e t : Mere Mithwa, aaja tujhko pukaare mere geet re , mere meet
re…
binu nair the rafi foundation binus2000@hotmail.com
Friends, proper conclusion can be drawn only after careful examination. Whatever it may be, no body can match Ghantasala Venkateshwara Rao, the golden singer of the south with a golden majestic voice whether in terms of melody, high pitch, slow pitch, any type of song. Ghantasala was a master also in singing dramatic style verses and the Bhagavad Gita sung by him in Telugu is an immortal recording continuing to this day. One should listen to the voice of ghantasala who was 2 years senior to rafi ji and who was admired by both lata and rafi and people would simply conclude that they have not heard such type of voice. People are able to compare kishore kumar etc. with rafi, but as long as ghantasala lived (even after his passing away in 1974), till today there is no comparison to his voice. However, it is unnecessary to discuss at length all these issues, People can arrive at their own conclusions after listening to the master’s voice who ruled the southern film world like a colossus for 3 decades in yester years.
Ghantasala was known as southern rafi in yesteryears pl.
Hello to all rafi fans. I am from Andhra Pradesh, India and am equally conversant with telugu and hindi songs. In my opinion what our friends have said is true but it is to be known that Ghantasala was definitely the only southern & indian singer who could match rafi, perhaps exceed rafi in some songs as stated by our friends, but at the same time this was only restricted to the southern films that too mostly in telugu. Whatever it may be, as stated by siri, it is an immense pleasure hear both singers, whose voices are excellent, both being masters in their own respective fields.