True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
Hello binu nair ji and others,
I hope you remember me. I am raj from Maharashtra. You people riduculed me when I declared kishore kumar is better than rafi. Pl. read sid ji’s message below about manna dey’s interview in hindusthan times wherein in certain terms manna dey declares kishore kumar as better singer than rafi. Hope this clears all doubts about rafi’s talent. I was waiting for my time to come and it has come. I now expect full apologies from you and ready to forgive all of you for having uttered all undesirable words.
other comments
Other viewers, roy, vasuji, narayanan, raghavan all esteemed sir’s, I am also fully with you. Ghantasala is the best no doubt about it. After reading raghavan and vasu, I too heard some slokas of bhagavad geetha rendered by this great legend from internet and found them to be magnificient and mind blowing. Indeed ghantasala voice is divine in this master piece of his and stated by roy, this magnificient voice of ghantasala is supreme indeed. So magnificient, i can say even better and supreme than my favourite singer kishore ji.
Ultimately, rafi sahab ranks only next to these singers (ghantasala and my favourite singer). Thanks to manna dey for enlightening the rafi fans.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=8b324057-dea9-4b0a-a355-b19f63224112&&Headline=EMBees+saal+baad%2fEM
Manna Dey interiew…he talks abt Kishore and Rafi:
http://hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/Print.aspx?Id=8b324057-dea9-4b0a-a355-b19f63224112
Hello readers and music lovers,
I have written earlier. As I have already said I am a Bengali person with no knowledge of telugu but on advice of hyderabadi friends have heard the melodious voice of ghantasala ji. I have already stated this earlier. But after reading raghavan sahab’s message, I purchased a CD of Bhagawad Geetha sung by ghantasala ji from music world in hyderabad and myself and my wife together heard it yesterday. What a divine rendering, it is simply marvellous and incomparable. The voice of ghantasala is simply divine. I and my wife were simply thrown into a pleasant ecstasy while hearing the song divine. Extremely beautiful that is what I can say. The classical base, strength and depth of music in his divine voice is extremely strong.
As I have said earlier, myself and my wife are ardent lovers and fans of rafi sahab and could not even in dream think of any better singer.
But my conscience forces me to say though reluctantly that after hearing ghantasala ji, our opinion undergoes a change. I had to compromise with myself by saying that rafi sahab’s songs have given me immense pleasure directly hitting at heart. But when I heard bhagavad geetha of ghantasala ji, my state of mind reflected that this voice of ghantasala ji is irreplacable, and cannot be substituted, duplicated, replaced or replicated.
My Hindi friends, leave language, but to know the top voices in the indian film industry, and also to enjoy music to hearts content they should definitely listen to this south indian legend with his most beautiful voice, especially his bhagavad geetha, which has got no comparison, as I feel. So raghavan ji and vasuji, you r ultimately right and thanks for giving me such a divine pleasure. Kindly enlighten more on continuous basis so that we can derive such pleasure always.
Dear raghavan sir,
I am in this site after a break. I feel extremely happy to meet you and my friends here viz., binu nair ji, ramakrishna ji, narayanan ji and others.
I fully agree with you. As I have already written earlier, the Bhagavad Geetha, sung by ghantasala in sanskrit and translated in telugu ranks top and number one and no body can deny it. It is a fact. The divine voice of ghantasala simply enthralls the listener. Thank you very much for bringing out this fact.
I also request binu nair ji to hear bhagavad geetha of ghantasala as I have missed this point earlier in my messages while requesting binu nair ji to hear songs of ghantasala.
But, raghavan sir, for your other comments, I stick to my earlier words in my earlier messages pl. which i humbly repeat for information i.e. Both rafi sahab and ghantsala master are the greatest playback singers which the country has ever produced, and both are legends and eyes of indian music i.e Rafi sahab in hindi and Ghantasala in telugu. As many readers pointed out, it is an immense pleasure hearing both singers. So let us continue to enjoy both of them at all times.
With warm regards
Shri binu nair ji, narayanan ji, ramakrishnaji,
Extremely thankful for your views. I fully agree with you. apologies from my side if i have written excess. hope you all can understand.
Narayanan ji: I agree with you. thank you.
Ramakrishnaji, : very happy to note your poetry. keep it up pl.
binu nair ji :
a small request, i feel i need not introduce ghantasala venkateshwara rao to you, as i think all esteemed friends in this site have written about him and I am sure you must have read the same.
I would request you to kindly read the messages in 492 & 494 post by ramakrishnaji and vasuji (who has not responded to my view; of course he has already written earlier) wherein in detail the route is explained for hearing ghantasala. Kindly revert after you hear him.
regards and thanks to all.
Post 541: Raghavan sir..
Ur points noted. yes . gnantasala ji is no. one in telugu; rafi saab
is unparalled in hindi .
rafi saab has sung in telugu few songs. please let me know whether
ghantasala too has sung in hindi.
rafi saab has sung in many many languages, including 2 nos. in
english, a foreign language to him ( he is a school-drop out )
according to my sources.
How many songs in different languages he has sung? this will
add to my knowledge.
frankly, i have not heard shri ghantasala hence i will not comment
but i believe u and shri narayanan whose knowledge is nearly
similar to me.
I will appreciate if u can give me more details of shri ghantasala
in my hotmail i.d. so that one of these days i will listen to some of
his classics.
As a matter of fact the rafi foundation respects and honours various
artists and u may refer to the KK website for some samples of what
we have to say.
Binu Nair..////////the rafi foundation///////// S A R G A M magazine///////////
ref post 541
raghavan sir,
i reciprocate your deep respect for both rafi sahab as well as ghantasaala garu.
sir, again i say both are invaluable and we are very fortunate that we were born during that period when both the legends were struggling to give us their best outputs, so that we can sit comfirtably , listen to them, relax, enjoy, praise & what not.
i have written already & I am repeating once again that , one is like a clear sky on a full moon night & the other legend ( I have no guts to write as second therefore I am mentioning as other legend ) is like a clear sky on a new moon night. both are extremely beautiful, mindblowing & a state of divine beauty.
Raghavan sir,
Again invariably you are starting a raging debate. Pl do not as both Rafi saab n Ghantasala garu are legends n revered by all.
As a south indian brought up in Mumbai I had the opportunity to listen to both. Yes u r right the Bhagavat Geetha rendering by Ghantsala garu is the best but u should also hear some exclusive ghazals film n non film of Rafi saab it is simply spell bounding.
Or if u want to add more Rafi saabs songs pl listen to Aadmi,Babar,Bheeghi raat,Kala Bazaar, Lal killa [ Sir there is no interlude or background support practically], Miss Bombay,Mirza Ghalib, to just name a few it is spell bounding n outstanding which no one could have rendered perfectly.
Sir what about Pyaasa or even Kagaz ke phool? perhaps u would not have heard about all the songs.
SO FOR HEAVEN SAKE DO NOT COMPARE.. GHANTASALA GARU CANNOT BE COMPARED IN SOUTH BASED FILMS SONGS AND RAFI SAAB IN BOLLYWOOD..
dear music fans
i feel i have missed this site for long. I am from tamilnadu and had been an ardent lover of indian film singers from all the south indian languages and hindi from the north and bengali from the east. I have read the comments of many of our esteemed readers here and felt that I should also participate. Mohd. rafi is a very great singer no doubt about it and he is also famous. This may be attributed to his being associated with hindi language being the national language and so it is but natural that he became famous. This itself does not make him number one. I have heard other singers also and as stated by many people in this site I also wish to re-iterate that hindi and other language people should listen to the voice of ghantasala venkateshwara rao, the golden singer of the south before stating that rafi ji is number one. I feel hindi friends are agruing without examining evidence. I throw only one challenge. Pl. hear the bhagavad gita sung by ghantasala in sanskrit. (leave language but hear the voice because i feel ghantasala’s voice is more melodious and majestic than rafi ji) Then you comment. Hindi readers say many music directors have declared rafiji as no.1. But I want to tell one point. People will be astonished to note it. Even some telugu analysts might not be knowing this. The great carnatic legend, sri balamuralikrishna garu, who is credited with many creation of compositions in many unheard ragas, who is the no.1 carnatic giant in entire India, a guru of lata mangeshkar and recepient of padma vibushan award has said once that voice like ghantasala does not exist and is simply incomparable. As I have read in some articles of our friends, even lata mangeshkar has declared voice of ghantasala to be incomparable. What more evidence is required.Hindi friends should make comment only after hearing ghantasala in the manner as stated by some of our friends here viz., ramakrishnaji, vasuji, sastry garu etc. in the previous 3 to 4 pages. I state that in india ghantasala ji stands as no. 1 followed by rafi ji and others. I even feel that ghantasala’s voice is the greatest voice in the last century. Hindi friends might riducule me but i say I am open to such challenge only after they hear ghantasala’s bhagavad gita. As stated by some friends here, voice of rafi is comparable, but voice of ghantasala venkateshwara rao is incomparable.
I also appreciate the openness of sri binu nair of rafi foundation for his opinion on ghantasala venkateshwara rao and would like to compliment him for the same.
This with reference to comment 500
the gentleman did not say about the songs of rafi saab converted to malayalam
“tere mere sapne” from Guide,”suhaani raat dhal chuki” from dhulari and “dhil ke jaroke me tujko” from Brhmachari all sung by Yesudas saab. but theses songs in malayalm nobody noticed even.We can see the difference of “Jilmil sitarom ka” in hindi and “chinnum ven tharathin” in malayalam.The way rafi saab is singing and yesudas saab singing.The malyalam song also sweet.But the effect of the style of rafi saab is entirely different.Once yesudas saab told I put garland to my “Manasika Guru” before rendering the song “Aane se useke aaye bahaar” from film “Jeene ki raah” infront of rafi saab and not “Oh duniya ke rakwale” and please see the song of Yesudas saab “Harimuraleervam” when he singing in high pitch how the sweetness is changing but at the same time even at the top level how sweet rafi saab’s sound in “Oh duniya ke rakwale” and “Parda hai parda”.
We cannot imagine a singer singing “Oh duniya ke rakwale” is singing for Johnny walker in various films and for Junior Mehmood in “Brahmachari” song “Me kale hai to tere dilwale hai”.It is a fact that we should be proud that we could be a part of India which is having singers like Rafi Saab,Lataji and Yesudas saab.But while comparing singers we should be very careful.We can see the olden era before rafi saab come in to picture the style of our film music.He and Naushad saab changed the style through film baiju bawra and given life for so many artists.Rafi saab fit for anythig.classicals,gazals,comedy songs,happy songs,sad songs,Khawalis,patriotic songs,high pitch songs and stage programmes.
We are common people nothing infront of noted singers.Almost all singers favourite singer is rafi saab.these veterans will not treat rafi saab as good since they also worked with them.once Mannadayji told when singing duet songs with rafi saab i watched him and noticed the style of his singing “in the light way of his singing and moreover he told in “Screen” in some duet songs even Lataji’s voice not suitable to Rafi saab’s voice.We have singers who have sweet voice but flops in stage programmes.Moreover please contact one porter in alleppy who is conducting “rafi night” every 31st July with his hard earned money.Who ever it is or whatever his qualities,we will not accept him if his personnel life is bad.that is why people are telling rafi saab is on top of all singers in everything.so please think before pressing the submit button.
Ahamed Kutty
ahamedkutty9@rediffmail.com
Unknow1 is a complete and unadulterated Rafi devotee. A “go over†of his past posts, one can sense his fondness for Rafi Sahab even amid his weak [yet sincere] narrations. He has maintained the decorum of the forum, even when many intruders abused him, with out any resentment or complaints. His language is language of the heart, which makes his posts the best among all the posts. Kindly encourage him Sirs!
Dear unknow and unknown 1 : some one is up to some mischief
with your name hence please come out with a new name ..
binu nair.
There are mischief mongers here too : but remember that there
is a well oiled and efficient “watchdog” who will catch these
mischief makers.
From the polished english I had my doubts of post 525 : but waited
for a day : and the reply came from our original rafi saab fan.
so, mischief makers please understand that – someone is watching
you – always.
Binu Nair.
really i don’t understant who it can be some one was Mohd rafi fans can say what said in post 525?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i wrote in fast in name of unknow and unknow1 but what wrote in post 525 that is not me.it is better to be unknow for music lover boz music has no religon when we said other names it mean we are from that religon but unknow mean only music lover,i never spoke that any singer bad only i said that no one can be Mohd rafi and that not said by me,that is true my eglish is not good and my hindi but i had no other who i listen else than Mohd rafi,offourse i like some KK songs,muklesh Ji many other singer only at radio but i never paid money to buy songs of other singers else than Mohd Rafi and also i have’t got any CD for any other singer>
BINU NAIR PLEASE TELL ME WHAT CAN I DO TO ACCESS THE SARGAM MAGAZINE I CAN GIVE MY POSTAL ADDRESS IF U SAY AND I WUD PAY ANYTHING TO GET MY HANDS ON THAT PRECIOUS GEM.MY WARM AND HEARTILY WISHES TO PEOPLE LIKE U TO DO SUCH GREAT WORK FOR THE MUSIC INDUSTRY.I REALLY ADMIRE UR EFFORTS MAY BAJRANG BALI BLESS U DEAR.WE ALL R PROUD OF U
WHAT AN AMAZING NEWS FOR ALL THE CRORES AND CRORES OF RAFIAANS THAT A MAGAZINE IS TO BE LAUNCHED IN RESPECT OF THE IMMORTAL AND UNCOMPAREABLE RAFI SAHIB AND IT IS TODAY ONLY THAT I HAVE COME TO KNOW OF IT. PLEASE BINU NAIR IF U CAN TELL ME HOW CAN I SUBCRIBE OR ACCESS THAT MAZ AND WHAT I NEED TO DO TO GET IT.MY E MAIL ID IS – VK23_VICKY@REDIFFMAIL.COM.
I LIVE IN JALANDHAR(PUNJAB)
I M A DIE HARD FAN OF RAFI SAHIB,I THINK BY NOW IT IS APPROPRIATE TO SAY THAT I M A RAFIAAN.
Dear unknow Ji… :: we have suffered and tolerated ur brand
of broken english for long.
ur english writing stay : unknow to us. so please give us a
break.
thankyou for the same.
Binu Nair…. mumbai..
post 525 Unknow is different from Unknown who writes often but no one can comprehend for example the latter writes singed for sung….
So pl ingnore the post 525 who is just an immature person with better english…
But pl encourage the Unknown ….. who has been commenting in this blogs since inception of this website and he is a big fan of Rafi saab with not so good english knowledge….
Yes I fully agree with Makkadji,Gurumurthyji,Ramaswamyji that all of us should not fall prey to evil designs of an immature person.
Also the Unknow of the previous post is different from Unknown who I feel belongs to Baluchisthan and hence the latter’s english is not good but he is a a big Rafi saab poojari.
pl do not get mixed with the Unknow n Unknown…
This unknow has commented wrongly few notches before my this posting…….
RAFI SAAB WAS THE SUTRADHAAR OF HINDI FILMS FOR 40 YEARS !
i think we all know and realise the greatness of rafi sab as a singer and as a human being.
why then do we allow people to misuse his man’s name on a war like the ” rafi – kishore” one ?
where is the war? and why?
its just that while kishore da was a multifaceted genius , rafi saab was a multivoiced genius, which is where he scores over kishore da as a singer.
my fervent plea is that please do not use abusive language on this site and belittle the name of the great man whom we rever.
ref post 525,
hello ‘Mr unknown ‘ dont you have a proper name or you are afraid of disclosing ?
coming next ,you tell that, you dont have any interest in music, then I can say you are a hypocrite of the first order to come here and give your comments. We never move out in the field in which we have no interest. Its a mere waste of time. Instead of preaching us, why dont you mend your self first.
They say, ‘ GADHAA KYA JANEY ADRAK KA SWAAD ‘
We are discussing about music, the raagas, scales & instruments etc. In this process its natural that we discuss about the artists whether they are in their mortal frame or not. We discuss about their hardwork, dedication & contribution so that you & me can sit comfirtably, relax & enjoy the fruit of their hard work.
It is just to kill our tension & relax us from the routine of this materialistic life. If the almighty would have blessed you with that sence you would not have ventured to write like this.
First of all it shows your poor english, lack of respect for the people who are much more superior to you by way of their talent & finally uncultured way of expressions.
At the end can you tell what are your contributions or research work done in any field other than music in which you have no interest?
This forum is for healthy & happy people & not for the’ mentally challenged ‘. As fellow human beings we rafians feel sorry for them & pray GOD to rectify them.
I have not heard from some of our regular contributors in this
forum for some time.
I remember them and extend my best wishes and salaam to all
these ” music and rafi saab lovers “.
Binu Nair the rafi foundation mumbai.
Dear unknown : Post 525 :
Your comments are noted : doctor : ” please practice what u preach
in your concluding lines first ” , and also stop preaching to us music
lovers.
The world is full of preachers like you and we have absolute contempt
for such people. Man : u are a person without even a ” proper name
and identity” and your views correspond well with your name which
is ” unknown “.
please remember that for mankind : food , clothing , shelter ,
and music are the four most essential and basic “needs of life”.
Please find some other forums for preaching : as this is a very
popular and growing forum for music lovers.
and please give your identity when u preach : to your subjects, else
you will be open to great ridicule.
binu nair. mumbai.
AN APOLOGY :
SARGAM MAGAZINE IS DELAYED AND MY SINCERE APOLOGIES
FOR THE SAME. SARGAM WILL NOW BE RELEASED ON SEPT 29
AND THE NEXT ISSUE WILL COME OUT IN DECEMBER.
READERS AND RAFI SAAB LOVERS WHO WROTE TO ME CAN CONFIRM
THEIR MAILING ADDRESSES TO ME BY MY E.MAIL AND SEND THEIR
SUBSCRIPTIONS.
I WILL REQUIRE RAFI FANS PHOTOGRAPHS AND ABOUT 150 WORDS
FROM THOSE WHO WISH TO WRITE ON THEIR” LOVE FOR RAFI SAAB”
IN THE MAGAZINE AS BASICALLY SARGAM AND THE RAFI FOUNDATION
IS WORKING TOWARDS – BRINGING ALL RAFI SAAB FANS ON A
COMMON PLATFORM and under a common umbrella.
IN THE NEXT ONE YEAR WE NEED THE FOUNDATION TO FUNCTION
IN 50 COUNTRIES. IN INDIA : WITHIN A SHORT SPAN WE ARE IN
OVER 10 INDIAN STATES. WE WILL GROW AND SHOW TO THE
WORLD THE MAGIC OF RAFI SAAB.
SO RAFI FANS : PLEASE WRITE AND GIVE YOUR THOUGHTS:
e. mail: binus2000@hotmail.com : tel: cell :+ 9833 250 701..
binu nair the rafi foundation mumbai.
Hi rafi fans, ghantasala fans, KK fans, and other fans.
I have been reading these messages for the past few days and have been observing the views of many of our fans. ek prashn puchna chahata hu mein meaning one question i want to ask all the rafi, ghantasala, kk fans. why are you fighting who is the best singer. I didn’t know music and strictly speaking I don’t know either singer much. I have heard few rafi songs in radio but I interested only in modern songs. I comment that what is the use discussing about old singers who died many years back may be 25 or more years back all people died as I can see from the messages of the fans. Is anybody gifting any property to you people for better discussion of the singers. i feel you people are simply wasting your precious time on people who died long back and discussion on those people now will not serve any purpose. Thik Hai, rafi accha gaye, ghantasala acha gaya, kk acha gaya, aur paise khub kamaya, aap sabko kya mila. my sincere advise, concentrate your talents on doing something to developing the country than discussing on something which serves no purpose.
ref post – 519,
Parveen jee,
salam alaikum.
Al humdu lillah I am fine. My e mail address ‘ sabnivis@yahoo.com ‘
Binu jee, Anmol singh jee, Gurumurty jee, Narayan jee, vasu jee, & Ramaswamy jee .
I was going on responding to that ‘ mentally challenged fellow ‘ just to show him the sun light .
Thanks that all of you have joined & made all efforts to drive away that ‘ mad dog ‘ spoiling the sanctity of the premises of our beloved ‘ saint ‘
vasu garu,
thx for your responce. i request you to join Mohd Rafi foundation. If you are in Hyderabad please contact me for further details. My tel no – 040-40150116 & GSM no- 9949509592 ( hyderabad).
We are wasting our time in picking up arguments with people who do not understand the greatness of Rafi. Let us ignore them and concentrate on the KHOOBI of Rafiji. Of course, I am not telling that other Singers are no good. Each had their own plus points, whether it was KK or Mukesh or Hemantha or Talat or Mahendra or Saigal or any other Female playback Singers. We have enjoyed many of their wonderful songs. But if one listens to all these Singers and analyse the various types of songs they have sung, then one can realise the great versatility of Rafi. This forum should be exclusively for discussing the various facets of Rafiji’s talents and capabilities.
Mr. raj says ( post 499 ) is a confirmed name chucker and a fraudster
in this site. The mischief maker says Mohd Rafi’s voice tends to be
feminine.
For saying this he needs to be banished to ” a mental asylum ” for
a period where ” no”sound will exist. He is a confirmed music hater and
this treatment may perhaps cure him of his ” very genuine mental
deformity “.
binu nair. The rafi foundation
dear ramakrishan jee
walikum asalam
how are u?can u give me u email adress?
Hi, eminent friends and music lovers,
I could not participate yesterday, because I was busy watching the India – England interesting cricket match which India however and finally won chasing 316 (sachin and uttappa made it)
O K that’s happy, let us continue our discussion.
Ramakrishna ji, I am quite happy to meet you here and introduction as a personality associated with music. Regarding me, as I have earlier said, I am only a in music. I can humbly state my small achievements in this field. I have completed my 6 years diploma course in veena (1991-96) in carnatic music and was performer in many live concerts in All india radio, hyderabad from 1998-2004. Now, I still continue to practise music as it gives immense happiness. We also used to practise melodious songs of rafi sahab and songs of ghantasala mastaru along with his padyams also. (do you know padyams cannot be easily played). Anyhow this is only for sharing of information.
Raj ji, your comparisons confuse me. I should thank you for requesting my comments here. i wish to inform that as I have informed in my earlier mails, with my little knowledge of music, I have done research on the voices of many bollywood singers viz., amar gayak rafi sahab, melodious singer kishore kumar ji, sweet singer mukesh ji, original singer saigal ji, sundar gayak talat mahamood ji etc. and from the south apart from amar gayak ghantasala master, t.m. soundarrajan of tamil, k.j.yesudas of malayalam, jayachandran of kannada, p.b.srinivas ji, apart from the versatile SPB. I have also gone into the voice of sri balamuralikrishna garu whose voice pitch exceeds the notes present on the instrument. With my little knowledge as i have earlier said, rafi sahab and ghantasala master voice appeared supreme to me in the indian field. I did write much about ghantasala ji because I wanted only to enlighten my hindi and other friends about the great talent of this genius and not to give intention that rafi is a inferior singer. I consider both of them as eyes of indian music. I can tell you some interesting quotes which our elders used to say. People especially our muslim brethren and friends in 60’s used to affectionately call ghantasala as andhra rafi sahab, similarly t.m.soundarrajan used to be called as tamil ghantasala in tamil. This does not mean that one singer is superior but if you study inner meaning it says as rafi sahab is to bollywood, ghantasala is to andhra people and t.m.soundarrajan to tamil people and k.j.yesudas to malayalis and so on. All are talented people and enjoy god’s gift of music. So regarding your quote on kishore kumar, it is your personal choice. I can say only that bollywood is fortunate enough to have given birth to great two sons viz., rafi sahab, the elder brother and kk the younger brother.
Pl. close the chapter. We are only wasting our time and energy by answering immatured kk fans. For any music lover, music starts and ends with Rafi Saab. In one of the shows I attended on the occasion of death anniversary of our beloved Rafi saab, wherein Amitkumar was the chief guest, he started like this ” Mohd.Rafi Saheb, Duniya ke Greatest singer” has sung some beautiful melodies for my father KK, and as a tribute, himself sang Ajab hai daastan hai meri Zindagi from film Shararat and said Galti hua to maaf kardena. Rafi saab to Rafi saab hai, the greatest singer.
I can write many quotes and comments offered by various film personalities on Rafi Saab on his every death anniversary and teach all kk fans but it is like holding the hand of the child and taking the child to school where if we leave him for a second, the child runs away. Sheer waste of time.
To quote Manna Dey saheb, wherein he was asked “in a scale of 10, where you will place Rafi Saheb”, his immediately reply was all 1 to 10 belongs to Rafi Saheb only. For others, it starts from 11 only. Now, kk fans will u please understand? I too like KK but the top position is always Rafi Saheb.
Hi Raj,
Your interpretation of male and female voice is basically your own state of mind, but not the reality.
As per u Rafi voice is suitable to older generation and KK’s to the younger. Again this is your own state of mind. The fact remains Rafi suits to people of all age group. In fact KK is more suitable to older actors. Classic example is Dev Anand of 60s and 70s, you can judge your self.
Plus we have observed many KK fans know very little about KK’s ability. I suggest please do research on KK’s entire career. That is only possible provided you are able to understand Rafi first.
Sir Binu,
we know Raj is the same but we should not stop to answer him boz we got the answer but he don’t,
when KK went to mr Bachchan to play role in his Flim but Mr Bachchan said that he will not work for free but Mohd Rafi singed from hime only for 1rs for two songs.
Dear Raj I know u will say that KK had 8 award and Mohd Rafi 6,I know u like mr Bachchan as i do If we will go for awards Mr Bachchan had less awards from many Actors.
plz go back to award history will see that who got must award in 1970’s u will find Mukesh if i am not wrong.
Dear Raj,
plz compare Rajesh Khanna with Shammi kapoor who had best music in his flims also count songs which singed by KK for Shammi Kapoor and who many songs singed by Mohd Rafi for Rajesh Khanna?the answer is no song was singed KK for Shammi Kapoor but there are many hit songs singed by mohd Rafi for Rajesh Khanna.plz don’t say that KK singed one song for Shammi Kapoor I know that plz be sure when was that.u r speaking abount awards why not u speak abount best 20 songs in last 50 years in Bollywood?Do u know who is K.J.Yesudas?
ref post – 508,
Parveen jee,
salam alaikum.
You are a person with a very very fine artistic mind. Please be in touch by way of interaction through this beautiful forum.
Khuda haafiz.
Joy saab:
Thanx for the analysis. Excuse me to state that I am a music
lover and love the great artistes this world has produced.
To honour such veterans we have started SARGAM MUSIC in
bombay.
rafi saab leads from the front in content, quality and popularity
in the field of playback singing.
Yesudas has very less competition in south india. He is one of
the great geniouses of this land. But in hindi his accent became
a little liability.
Only ravindra jain and to some extent salil da could
take out the ‘correct diction’ from his vocals. Truly, yesudas himself also never tried improving his hindi diction.
And as they say : you cannot stop a tide. This tide could never be
stopped in the south indian states but in the hindi heartland it
was a different tale.
binu nair.
Mr. raj :
U are confused . Kishor kumar is a great singer. No one disputes
that. But he spent more than 20 years in the wilderness – acting and
doing c grade movies.
During these 20 years : rafi saab and the golden era writers and
composers were weaving unforgettable gems .
All male singers had virtually given up and accepted Mohd Rafi
to be the best singer – for his range and versality.
Even Latas disagreement with rafi could not touch his popularity
and output. Lata lost songs to asha and suman kalyanpur.
The same song recorded seperately in male and female version had
the voices of rafi or lata. Invariably : rafis song climbed to the top
position and remembered even today.
And in 1980 – June july period : rafi saab had 12 toppers out of
16 songs in the popular binaca geet mala. Yes: he went away from
us as the no. one singer of our era. and Mohd rafi lives on through
his great works. Yes. u will not agree this as your thinking then will
have to drastically change.
Also , a music composer did announce that mohd rafis time is over and
worked overtime and boasted about it along with a caucus supporting
him – after few of his films did exceedingly well. He was drunk with
ego and what not …. this was post 1972 period.
soon, his films and music started failing; he became unemployed and
hit the coloured water in frustration.
But, alas you will not accept these facts sir.
Yes. Kishore Kumar had his time.
He was a great personality. No doubt about it. He respected
rafi saab : but your wearing coloured glasses will never enable you
to see these facts ; which we fully understand.
After all – all fanatics have their reasons for their fanaticism. We can’t
help…..
binu nair….. the rafi foundation mumbai.
Rafi remains the greatest ever singer in India.
K.J.Yesudas was denied chances by the other singers, because they thought he would conquer the hindi world, especially in the Hindi hearland. Jealousy has no medicine.
Indian play back field lost many semiclassicls in the absence of Jesudas.
We pray that another Rafi be born again in this subcontinent.
Joy
ref post – 507,
raj ji,
now matter is becoming interesting day by day. i really enjoy it. when Kishore daa got award for aradhana, we dont deny it. rather we are happy. you asked where was rafi ? Rafi sahab sung ‘ Gunguna rahain hain Bhawarain ‘ & ‘ bagon main bahar hai ‘ for the same film.
its not the question of getting awards. do you know how many awards Rafi sahab got & how many Kishore daa ?
now coming to music aspect why dont you discuss? why are you taking the help of Vasu jee & others ” are you a parasite ? dont you have musical knowledge? dont you have musical sence at least if not knowledge ?
do you know what is low ‘ f ‘ & high ‘ e ‘ ? do you know raagas & their thaat ? do you know what is the meaning of thaat ?
for your information I am not a great commentator so also Binu. We are normal people of course not special like you who moves round & round, finally comes back to the same place like a mentally handicapped.
I pray GOD to bless you to grow, attain maturity & prevent you from becoming blind, idiotic & foolish.
Dear rafi lovers:
u have again fallen in to this mischief maker ashu/ashwin/ash and
now raj trap who is a kishore kumar follower.
he is the same person in different disguises and he has said the
same things in this forum. He is a bluffer as far his identity is
concerned . the dogs tail has come to its original size – again.
Please leave him alone as he is of great nuisance value. Please spend
your time in some good pursuits – than following this dogs tail;.
binu nair.
dear raj saab
how are u?
i am from paksitan.we have many musical giants like u.i am mentioning them king of ghazal (mehdi hasan) melody queen(noor jehan just compare her with lata) but we lack only one man and that is mohd rafi.for kishore,we have rushdi.in qawwali no one can dream to win against nusrat.
as u said that kishore has no classical numbers,so he can not be compared with ghantasala ,so why are u comparing him with rafi?or rafi had no classical numbers also?secondly, u mentioned has nothing particular voice effect.it is very simple tune.if u deny then compare” hum teenon ki woh yaari”
give me kishore one song equal to below
yeah duniya yeah mehfil mere kaam ki nahin
thanks
Ramakrishna ji,
I should accept your nature of reverting back so promptly. Did not you see pradeep kumar’s message stating kishore kumar was adjudged as the best play back singer for film aradhana. Where was rafi then. Was he not famous then. You must note that as telugu readers have described (in many messages) ghantasala might be a singer without any competition in the south ( of course, I can accept this because I heard his melodious voice) but you must note that rafi was not without competition. Tell me one fact, did rafi’s fame started fading or not after kishore kumar’s fame started rising from aradhana. Simply quoting some songs does not make anybody great. I again tell you to hear bane chahe dushman jamana hamara and you will yourself accept that kishore’s voice is more beautiful than rafi. I hence regard KK as top singer in bollywood.
My other hindi friends puch rahe the ki, whether Kk is greater than ghantasala. I say certainly no. because I have not heard KK singing any classical masterpiece such as siva sankari of ghantasala which is superb. But again I say that kishore is better than rafi.
Musical knowledge people such as vasu and others may comment on kishore’s voice. Then only our great commentators binu nair, ramakrishna etc. will know KK’s greatness.
post 499
Rajji,
Why do u think many legends including Kishore da revers Rafi saab and has installed potrait of two greatest singing legends Rafi saab n Saigal saab in his house? For kishore da Rafi saab was his icon after saigal saab
Do u know that Rafi-Kishore are having the best relationship more like bhai-bhai and Rafi saab charged a token of Rupee 1 as charges for Kishoreda’s music?
Kishore da himself would have slapped u if u degrade greatest but humble gaint Rafi saab… Such was the understanding between them…
I have many anecdotes quoted by Amit kumar and for ur knowledge I can go on and on in the next blog….
So to understand Rafi saab many music lovers have to listen to just Baiju Bawraa,Kohinoor,Basant Bahaar,Guide,Hum Dono,Sangam,Bramhachari,Professor,Arzoo,Dil Ek Mandir,Mere Huzoor,Neel Kamal,Pathar ke Sanam,Chauvdavin ka chand,Pyaasa, to name a few but for u probably u should go an buy a legends CD of the Rafi saab to start with.
Then u will realise the sweetness of Rafi saab.
U are talking as if Lataji is having a masculine voice when u have commented about Rafi saab….
Today also many young n old male or female rich or poor find Rafi saab’s voice magical,unmatched n immortal….
If u are one of the orkut babes pl grow up n listen to the classics n then realise the ocean of music which Rafi saab has left for all of us.
I think it is impossible to listen to all the gems sung by Rafiji in once birth but try to get the max enjoyment in what is available.
bye
Here a joke 4 u specially KK fans, There was some saloons in sme locality, to increase their business they sticked the sologans like that Amitab comes here to cut hair, then other posted salamn, then other Amir. shahrukh and so on. There was a barber who was very tensed that what he has to write on his sand board, and finally he wrote “ALL BARBERS OF THIS AREA COME TO MY SALOON TO CUT THEIR HAIRâ€
SO MY DEAR FRIENDS RAFI WAS/IS ALL SINGERS CHOICE
ref post – 499,
raj jee,
you have replied with confidence. fantastic.
your first paragraph — thanks for your complements.
your second paragraph,
1. Why do you have the fear that we are taking you lightly, rather we are taking you very seriously.
2.as you said, please dont move out till prove you your point. thats the spirit.
3. what do you mean, ‘ tilts towards some female type ? ‘ do you mean its feminine ? then wheather all the heroes like Shammi jee, Dharam jee, Jeetu jee, Biswajeet jee, Mahipal jee, Dilip jee, Raj kapoor jee, Dev anand jee and at the end Amitabh jee are all ladies, since rafi sahab sang for them ?. please try to write good english. you have a lot of analytical capacity, we agree. now you analyse this & tell us please.
4. in reply to me you have given a list of 5 songs of Kishore daa. now I tell all these songs are of one nature. they are all romantic numbers. I gave you 15 songs & each song is of different nature. so as a reply you should reciprocate with similar trend only , then only the actual comparison comes. Please note that we are not comparing , its you only who have started this issue.
5.We are not capable of judging anything and every thing. its your feeling only. dont feel like this . we are always open & expect others to be same also instead of being tangential.
6. No problem you have written , ‘ Rafi died long back ‘ . then what about K.L.Sehgal sahab, Kishore daa, Mukesh jee, Geeta jee, Mubarak begum jee, Shamshad begum jee, who have given us a treasure of melodies ? Are they alive ? With your level of english & maturity of mind you will say ‘ they have also died ‘ but I will say, ‘ they have left us ‘
7. Now coming to the younger generation, you are telling they prefer all Kishore daa’s songs then , why are they the singing old melodies of rafi sahab? Is it to show their talent or lady like voice ?
8. In your city please conduct a musical night at two convenient places for the audiance on the same day. One of Rafi sahab & the second of Kishore daa. Make it a ticket show. Then you see the result. I am pained to write this but since you are challanging I have to respond.
9. At the end if you say, ‘ kuch to log kahengey ‘ then I will say , ‘ Main zindagika saath nibhata chalagaya, har phikr ko dhuen mani udaata chala gaya ‘
10. I am sure , you are much more younger than me. So I take this liberty to tell you, GOD bless you raj jee.
ref post -498,
vasu garu,
I am very happy that you have replied . Pls dont ashame us by telling sorry. You are a man with a lot of music knowledge & we would like to know a lot of things from you.
You are most welcome sir.
We are here to discuss about the use of musical instruments, various raagas adopted by the music directors & the dedicated artists who have given their best by virtue of their talent & hardwork.
Some people do not understand properly & start revolting. Its not our intention to praise some body or to belittle another. We praise some body becuase we felt something about him & at the same time we invite the opinion of others regarding the artists whom we know very very little.
As for example about Ghantasaala garu people of north know little, so we educate them. But thats not the case with Rafi sahab. People keen in music from kashmir to Kanyakumari know this voice.
Of course the present generation since they are lost in the noisy drums & guitars, a sort of synthetic music, wont accept this fact. Its upto them & we are not here to force them to beleive what ever we say. After all each man has his own choice.
Therefore vasu garu let us keep our discussions live irrespective of our individual choices.
For your information I play Mouth Organ. I was inspired by Milon Gupta & madan Kumar to learn this instrument , R.D. Burman to know the technics of creating the chord effect & finally my greatest inspiration rafi sahab to play his songs.
GOD bless you vasu garu.
Dear music lovers :
Please listen to the songs that shri pradeep kumar mentioned in post
no.500 and give your comments. The songs were immaculate and
sweet to the ears. but, the originals of the same numbers take the
cake – due to originality, first-come-first-stays-in-the-mind theory
and due to its acceptability by a larger audience.
by the way yesudas is a living legend and in classical carnatak music
there is hardly anyone who can come near him. He is a christian by
birth: his father was a stage artist who groomed yesudas just the
way Dinanath Mangeshkar groomed lata mangeshkar..
Yesudas also studied sanskrit from a very early age and had genes
for music the same way as rafi, lata or any other legend possessed.
Yesudas has a great voice culture : it has the shrilness of k.l. saighal
and mukesh, the softness of mohd rafi and the playfulness of kishore
or our manna da.
just like rafi saab all communities in Kerala love him. and rafi saab
has blessed him and called him ‘bete’ which moved yesudas no end
at a recording rehearsal.
Yesudas publicly adores rafi saab and says : rafi saab is his – guru.
Yesudas’s dad translated : oh duniya ke rakhwale in to malayalam
and yesudas grew up singing both the versions.
Yet the legend had partial success in the hindi film scene. Why ?? ?
I request readers to respond to my why query and also to hear some of
Yesudas classics. Like shri ghantasala we have one more legend
near to our hearts and mins
For readers info: these days shri yesudas divides his time staying
in the u.s. and in india.
Binu Nair the rafi foundation
binu nair.
Dearest Raj,
do u think that K is better than Ghantasaala Ji ?plzanswer me.
to compare Mohd Rfai with KK i think even the son of KK Mr Amit Kummar will not said that my father(kk)was better than Mohd Rafi he said that my father was fan of moh rafi.as human I love my father more than any one else.
who is the best playback singer in bollywood not said by me or u it was said by people who know what is music it not the case who i like.I like Asha ji but i never say she is better than Lata ji.