True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
Singh saaheb and rafi ji lovers : i would love to hear shri ghantasala
sir as i am a music lover . i know his voice has great qualities.
but, few ghantasala fans have “put me off”, “irritated” me and i have hence decided “miss” this singers songs – due to the misguided representation and comparisons being done with rafi saaheb.
i know that to sing in hindi like rafi ji, ghantasala would have to take another birth. but, alas these few handful 3 persons will not realise this fact and continue their “trouble making” sojourns in these threads. mr.khan please do not tire, we are used to your stupid remarks by now.
binu nair. mumbai.
Mr. Hussein sheikh garu,
I feel you have not heard ghantasala garu and simply bluffing about the singer that you have heard him, his songs, this and that. This is not fair pl. Because you are the only person who have written such remark against a singer who is appreciated at all times by all the musicians.
post 835 – binu nair saheb, – pranams
Thank you sir, for sharing my message on same lines of humour as i wanted here. Sir, we are pure and true music lovers and indeed writing what is true. We have nothing to do with any people who bring forth contorversial issues. Sir, whatever issue it may be, it will be focussed on our beloved unparalleled rafi saab only. What do you say sir.
Let us continue to play and create records sir.
Post 841 – Mr. Hussein sheikh
Sir, i personally feel you have to revisit your comments. Because great musician like khan sahab, ramakrishna sahab, vasu sahab, our friends and rafi fans here, who have analysed the songs of ghantasala and rafi have written in a very dignified manner about the greatness of songs posted here. Not only these, even other rafi fans have written similarly.
I can say with certainty,you are the only person who have made a unpleasant comment here and this will only project you as a person making wrong statements and will in no way give any credit for you. In fact you are degrading yourself sheikh saab. Pl. do not write such horrible and unpleasant statements in future.
Mr. hussein sheikh saab, posts 834 and 841
I am surprised. i can understand you are talking out of your love for the great rafi saab, who is indeed my greatest favourite singer. But pl. mind you, it does not befit a rafi fan, to support unparalleled rafi saab , you have to stoop to write degrading comments against a great singer like ghantasala ji. If you are capable, make healthy arguments. Otherwise pl. keep quiet. Are you not having a taste for music. You were mentioning not even 10%. Could you pl. clarify what are the areas in which the telugu rendering accounts to 10% pl. Is it high pitch, (all telugu songs are in higher pitch than hindi renditions pl.) Is it musical notes. (pl. note ghantasala ji, is much more trained in classical music than rafi saab – as stated by some telugu friends here) Is it melody. (Rafi saab has himself acknowledged the telugu songs as more melodious and great) Is it your taste of music (you might not have any taste of music), Is it love for unparalleled rafi saab (rafi saab had great respect and love for other singers, not like you pl.) All points you are wrong sir, Pl. do not take offense, but such comments against a great musician shows the low mentality of a person, whom certainly the great rafi also will not accept.
Mr. Hussein sheikh
Sorry sir, you are not a true rafi fan. Because our great rafi saab does not except rafi fans to comment like that. I do not know about your taste of music. I have heard shri ghantasala for first time from post 825, the song chali chali re patang meri, and chal ud ja re panchi and are quite great renditions, on par with rafi saab as shri singh remarks. And the suvarna sundari song, kuhu kuhu bole koyaliya, in telugu is indeed stupendous. And similarly, the number shiva shankari, which is indeed amazing and incomparable. So ghantasala fans, we are extremely thankful for introducing another gem like our great rafi saab in these pages.
Hussein sheikh sahab, I do not know how you have made bad comments against such great singer from the south.
My remarks have nothing to do with rafi saab, as our beloved rafi saab is always rafi saab and unparalleled and unequalled singer in hindi like shri ghantasala in the south and we along with rafi saab have always great regard and respect for other singers.
I personally apologise to all our southern friends on behalf of hussein sheikh saab, for such bad remarks against a great singer, as it is equivalent to insulting our great rafi saab himself, who was an example for outstanding humility with respect and great regard for other musicians (specially shri ghantasala), and which factors sadly, so called fans like hussein sheikh ji are bringing down.
Husseing sheikh ji, pl. try to be balanced, blind faith may bring the curtains down. Our rafi saab is always greatest, try to learn things from our beloved rafi saab. Our rafi saab even did not want padmashri, such was his humility and humbleness you know. Rafi saab had perfect ethics and respected principles and he followed them throughout his life with true spirit. Sheik ji, try to imbibe the qualities of our dear rafi saab, rather stooping down to a degraded level pl. I feel, no friend here, either our beloved rafi saab fan or shri ghantasala fan will appreciate your gesture.
I have heard those songs by Ghantasala in Telegu, they are great, but he doesn’t match up to Rafi as a singer. Ghantasala is definitely a great singer, but as Ilayaraaja said, “Rafi is Rafi”, there is abslutely no comparison. The Siva Sankari song is not as difficult as the song from Laila Majnu, Rafi has sang many classical songs with ease similar to the one from that film, and also many classical songs that are much tougher.
I would like to see a Ghantasala song in the same league as “Likhar tera naam zamin par”. If there is one, I still would not put him in the same class as Rafi, but since Ghantasala fans claim he is as good as Rafi and can sing songs that are similar to Rafi songs, it would be interesting to find a song similar to this.
Mr. Hussein sheikh
Are you greater than rafi saheb and true rafi fan. Rafi saheb himself complimented ghantasala for chal ud ja re panchi and suvarna sundari song and said that both songs were beautiful than hindi versions. By making undignified statements you are insulting and insulted the feelings of the great rafi sahab and by insulting a singer who has been acclaimed by greatest musicians. This shows the respect you have for rafi saheb’s feelings and also towards other musicians like spb, lata mangeshkar who have great regard and respect for ghantasala. Never had any fan of ghantasala written such derogatory remarks against any singer, but the argument was purely healthy and on technical aspects. I am sorry for your bad understanding of music and technical capabilities of singers. I am astonished how you have become a false fan of rafi when you are not able to respect a acclaimed singer. The great rafi saheb will feel extremely sorry to note that such fans who have no respect for great singers are his followers these days.
Regarding your 10% remark, friend, i advise you pl. to get your ears checked by a doctor, because your rafi saheb and i feel that your ears are not properly working to listen properly to a singer and analyse his capability.
Even binu nair, the leader of rafi foundation and rafi fan in true spirit in line with feelings of rafi saheb, addresses ghantasala as shri ghantasala and has great regard for the singer. Pl. learn from binu nair, how to respect a true musician.
With your derogatory remarks, you have proved that you are greater than rafi saheb (leave ghantasala or others) by making statements which rafi saheb never dreamt of.
All rafi fans, apologies if i have talked excess, but i had to comment seeing these bad remarks by a false and egoistic fan of the great and immortal legend rafi saheb. Will rafi saheb appreciate such remarks. Had he been alive today, he would have simply thrown this hussein sheikh ji out.
I am sorry for telling the plain truth, hussein sheikh ji, because i have told you in line with the feelings of great rafi saheb. Never try to post such derogatory remarks, and pl. desist from doing such things.
Have you.. Ghantasala fan’s lost way off? Here is your home … http://www.ghantasala.info/ . Please go back to your family.
Re. Post 827: Just heard the telugu version of Chal Udjaa Re Panchhi… and I don’t need to repeat again, this singer cannot touch Rafi Saheb. That’s all and I do not need to hear Ghantasala any more. Long Live Rafi Saheb.
Recently, we have seen in websie that rafi foundation is establishing chapters at other places of india. This is indeed a good development. All rafi fans can join under one umbrella and carry the greatness of rafi saab.
this is a exclusive rafi saab site. discuss about only rafi saab and enjoy only rafi saab songs pl. we do not have wrong intentions towards other great singers, in fact we have great regard for other greatest playback singers like ghantasala and others. But this site is for rafi saab only, so kindly enlighten us about rafi saab on continuous basis.
Whatever it may be rafisaab is the greatest for rafi fans. Other singers like ghantasala may be greatest but for rafi fans rafi is the alone greatest. So please stop comparisons and enjoy rafi saab only in this site. Comparison discussions may pl. be initiated in a separate site but not here pl.
Rafi ji being associated with the national language, was more famous. Not only ghantasala from south, there may be other golden hidden singers who may not be available because of their environment and circumstances. Rafi fans hence cannot conclude that rafi is the greatest at all times. Today among the known and available singers, he is one of the best. Had he been with a regional language what would have been the fame of rafi ji – similar to that of a regional great like ghantasala. Is it not. So music lovers should enjoy music of singers at all times rather than always comparing.
Post 828 : thanks to khan and two others this thread is taking a great “lead” and i wonder how much “thick skinned” is mr. khan – to public-ly undermine rafi saaheb in favour of his favourite singer.
binu nair.
post 821 singh saaheb: yes this topic : has indeed won the match and i enjoyed the “lighter vein” attributed to it. should we now take the score ahead or declare the innings….
no, we should wait until another “burning and controversial issue” comes back in these spaces.
binu nair, mumbai….
Re. Post 825: I have just listened to Ghantasala singing telugu version of the Hindi song ‘Chali Chali Re Patang Meri Chali Re…’ from the film Bhabhi, I am very sorry Mr. Singh, he’s not even 10% to Rafi Saheb. I request all true Rafi Saheb fans to listen to Ghantasala singing telugu version of the Hindi song from the film ‘Bhabhi’ and pass on your comments. I request all Rafi Saheb fans to stop discussing Ghantasala here in this site. He’s nothing in front of Rafi Saheb. I just wasted my time to listen to Ghantasala. Come on friends, Rafi Saheb se kisi ka muqabla nahin…..
melodiousrafi@yahoo.com
I too have heard siva sankari song by ghantasala ji. Indeed it is amazing and extraordinary and certainly incomparable from a classical style. I feel any classical musician can render it. Ghantasala being a classically trained person has rendered it with ease.
That is ok
But what does it has to do with rafi’s extraordinary voice which has swayed millions the world over and continue to do so.
Each exceptional singer has his own speciality which cannot be surpassed by another. Each is best in his own way.
myk sir, again pl.
siva sankari song by g-ji, is such a divine rendering by him and such exalted composition, that a singer who has sung it can render any song of any genre with comfortable ease.
myk sir, i continue pl. as i missed one point.
Post 787 by rakesh malhotra is inspiring. he is a rafi fan pl. kindly hear what he says sir.
Mr. Myk post 824 pl.
My similar friendly challenge to you sir? can you show one difficult and challenging song like siva sankari by ghantasala not only by mohd. rafi but in the entire bollywood by any singer at all times pl.
I guarantee sir, it simply No. Because such composition does not exist in bollywood.
If you want to hear the song ref. post 787 by Malhotra for the link pl.
Friends,
Rafi is more famous and known all over than ghantasala ji. But please note that Ghantasala ji is known as mohd. rafi of south and was a fan of rafi.
This does not mean otherwise, Rafi too had great regard and respect for ghantasala ji.
MYK garu,
Rafi ji is a very great and incomparable singer in his own style and ways. He is the one whose voice could attract most of the people. Moreover being from bollywood, his fame has spread beyond India also. Undoubtedly, a great singer.
Sir, as rafi has made a everlasting influence, in telugu also ghantasala has made such everlasting influence. Millions of telugu people continue to hear his songs till date and continue to be mesmerised by his great voice.
Leave indentical songs, wherein both have reigned supreme in their own way, but as you hear rafi singing his own individual songs, if you hear ghantasala also for his individual songs in a musical way, you will change your statement.
To prove my credential, i post a super song of ghantasala ji, it is from the telugu film jayabheri. I hope you will appreciate it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQYLMktBE2I
myk sir, post 825
Ref. post 823 pl. suvarna sundari song telugu link is posted by singh saab. I have heard it. Definitely in this song ghantasala ji has an edge over rafi. Moreover this song was first sung in telugu by ghantasala ji. Similarly, other song duet also, is excellent and ghantasala surpasses this is the one chali chali re patang by rafi and lata from bhabhi. I have also heard chal ud ja re panchi telugu version from some earlier message here; there too ghantasala has an edge. No doubt about it.
Myk sir, i am posting the telugu link for chal ud ja re panchi here for your hearing pl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nra86TX__hc
Ref: post 815.
Let me add something about Ghantasalaji’s voice… it’s the kind of voice which appealed to the South Indian MDs as well as listeners in the 50s and 60s, infact almost all the leading singers in the South had this kind of voice… (eg. TMS, PBS)… it’s a kind of natural, full-throated, almost rustic kind of voice sans the smooth polish and resonance associated with Rafi sahab and Yesudas sir… I would say Mukeshji’s voice would also fall within this broad category.. this is why we find people who are fond of Mukeshji’s voice taking a liking for Ghantasalaji’s voice too. And that voice suited the speaking voice as well as the physical features of most of the South Indian heroes of that time..
Manish kumar and others
To substantiate my credentials i hereby post two identical songs of the two legends where in it proves that both are unique and greatest. Nobody till date has posted this song. (i do not know telugu but a telugu friend has given me this link)
hindi song by rafi (duet)
tw.youtube.com/watch?v=2vsvUxpXZoU – 53k –
same telugu song by ghantasala (duet)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z2kbFNSviA
This is the telugu link for suvarna sundari song by ghantasala which you have asked pl.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuxnuuX_hZQ
Hope after these hearings, discussions will stop who is great.
Friends have to agree with my view, both are unique and greatest and god gifted singers to this earth. Pl. enjoy music to heart’s content.
Ghantasala sang two Rafi songs in Telegu in a good way. I don’t think they surprassed the Rafi versions, but they were nice. This does not mean that Ghantasala could sing any Rafi song, because the truth is he could not have. What this does show is a case of Ghantasala handling two songs greatly in his own way, that’s it. Like I said, these are just two examples, which are exceptions, and any other exceptions can be there as well, it doesn’t mean he comes close to Rafi in any way, it just means he sang those versions nicely too in his own way.
Saying Ghantasala could have sung all of Rafi’s songs is crossing the line into nonsense, because that is absolutely impossible.
Can any Ghantasala fan on this forum point me to a Ghantasala song that is as difficult or as challenging as “Likhar tera naam zamin par” ?. The film version of this song is cut, if you want to listen to the full song, then you have to listen to the album version.
Ref Post 813:
Rafi rendered the Suvarna Sundari song in a great way. I think Rafi’s version of “Chal uda re panchi” was better. There are so many songs by Rafi that Ghantasala would never dare to even attempt. Ghantasala has sang his versions nicely, but these are just two songs, it definitely doesn’t prove that he could have sang all of Rafi’s creations.
What is this idea about Rafi songs being rendered by Ghantasala in similar fashion ?. Ghantasala did not have the capibilities to render songs that Rafi sang, so to say he could have sang these Rafi songs in similar fashion is wishful thinking. I have seen many people ruin Rafi songs the most, and many do not even attempt Rafi songs because they have such a high degree of difficulty.
Have you noticed that pretty much every singer is compared to Rafi-saab ?. Why is that ?. You can answer that yourself. He is truly the benchmark in playback singing, nothing will change that.
————–
Ref Post 814:
I would like to see any Ghantasala song or any song from any singert that comes even close to “Likhar tera naam zamin par” from Laila Majnu. There are so many scale changes in that song that only Rafi could have rendered it. The last alaap before the songs ends confirms Rafi’s superiority over all other singers, no singer can reach such territories.
Btw, I have heard that this song was composed by Jaidev after MM passed away. Jaidev songs usually had steep scales, however this song has the MM touch.
Re. Post # 805: I do not need to hear to Ghantasala, I know he’s not even close to Rafi Saheb. Chal Ud Jaa Re Panchhi….. in the voice of Ghantasala……., what a joke! Even if he sang it, he can’t be compared to Rafi Saheb who is far far miles ahead.
Binu Nair and other friends,
Congratulations to all. We have finally won the match. This site has beaten the other site at last i.e rafi-kishore saga which has only 815 messages. The rafi-ghantasala saga has overtaken rafi-kishore saga. Anyhow rafi is the focal point.
My observations, i have great regard for both ghantasala ji and rafi ji, as I have heard both and consider both unique and greatest playback singers from all playback singers in India from all angles. It is really difficult to say who is great. Both are greatest.
Anyhow, I am enjoying both the legends at all times.
My last point is:
People who are arguing in favour of rafi ji are missing ghantasala ji and people who are arguing in favour of ghantasala ji are missing rafi ji, whereas intelligent person like me is not missing both but enjoying both.
Well said Kapil ji, Myk ji, Unknow and other Rafi lovers,
Rafi sahab ki jai.
Dear rafian1 and music lover,
The top ‘play back singers’ India has ever produced
1-will be Mohd Rafi
2-is Mohd Rafi
3-was Mohd Rafi
Post 807 rafifan : i am with u. these three disrespectful people
are indeed trouble makers and they have done this before “too”.
they lack manners and protocol .
i again, say that why they cant make a site for shri ghantasala and
enjoy his “popularity” and take it forward.
why they have to enter the mohdrafi.com and throw their rubbish
here and why rafi lovers have to see their rubbish.
i again say that it’s bad manners to enter this thread and say
rafi saaheb is a secondary singer.
rafi saahebs popularity is “such” that his songs will run for centuries
as the range and quality of his works are unparelleled. these three
wise men will again write “nonsenses” but rafi lovers pls dont mind
them as they are unaware what they are doing. ignore them .
theyare actually bringing “down” the acceptance of shri ghantasala
by their “profound ignorance” and bad manners.
binu nair….. mumbai.
rafi’s range cover all the genres of playback, such was his range with matchless expressions and great melody, plz don’t compare rafi with anyone…
i just want to echo these words of suresh wadekar::
“bhagwan ke bheje hue aadmi the wo, tabhi unke gane sunne mein itna anand aata tha”
…
@812
Exactly, my friend. Nice to see you placing our own (I’m a Keralite) Yesudas sir right up there (very rightly too).
I just hope people start differentiating apple from orange….
Ghantasala has an advantage over Rafi in the purely technical aspect. Just like Mannade. This isn’t to say that he doesn’t have advantages in other areas – I’m simply not aware of them as I haven’t heard enough of him. However, for voice itself, Rafi Sahab is my favorite.
Not that this proves upmanship or anything like that but I am told that after hearing the original Telegu version of “Kuhu Kuhu Bhole Koylia” – Rafi insisted on Mannade to sing render it. The MD did not budge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ6sTjW2-O8
My question is – was Ghantashala the original Telegu singer? If so – can anyone provide a link? I’m sure that this song, which requires a great deal of technical prowess, Ghantashala would have an edge.
I had created a list of 20 famous Rafi songs to guide Ghantashala fans of what songs to recommend me for the latter. I deleted them because this woudln’t be fair – Rafi Sahab and Hindi music lovers were blessed to have two dozen outstanding music directors. I doubt Telegu music had the same caliber of MDs, which is unfortunate.
@809,810
Good write-ups and nice to see the mention of Laila-Majnu. What terrific songs those were, “likhkar tera naam zameen par” is the pinnacle, according to me, in the Indian male play-back singing.
Dear rafian friends,
Rafi is a very great singer. No doubt about it. But absolutely not the ultimate. MYK sir says rafi can render any genre with perfection. Then why was he not able to render the song from suvarna sundari with the same attraction as that of ghantasala.
Similarly how could ghantasala render the chal ud ja re panchi in telugu with more attraction than rafi.
Any ghantasala song, if sung by other top singer, can be either equivalent to ghantasala or less than him but cannot be more beautiful than him.
On the other hand, other singer’s songs be it rafi or anybody, if given to ghantasala, certainly ghantasala excels in that. (see similar songs by rafi and ghantasala)
I have seen many hindi musicians in rafi concerts rendering rafi songs beautifully, but from many south indian film musical concerts which i have attended, I have not seen anybody rendering ghantasala songs at least near equivalent to him in beauty, leave alone other technical musical aspects till today.
Ghantasala’s voice gives not only 100% perfection, but gives originality creation to the song he sings, which cannot be overtaken by anybody, not even by mohd. rafi. This does not mean rafi’s songs do not possess originality, they have their own beauty. But i feel the edge tilts towards ghantasala.
According Music experts,highly rated MDs,Technical Analyst all will agree
with the following points(Excuse me Ghantasala fans)
The top ‘play back singers’ India has ever produced(Note the word ‘Play back ‘ please)
are
1.Mohd Rafi
2.K.J Yesudas
3.Lata Mangeshkar
I am sure since India having highly rich heritage in music should have better singer than these 3.Especially in Classical Music.So I think Shree Gantshaala will be among those category which includes highly rated Classical Singers like Ms SubbaLakshmi etc.
What makes Rafi saab unique is his GLobal acceptance and immense respect he gets from music lovers,Music directors & Singers and Ordinary people.
So we are back to square 1. Now this thread is all set to beat the rival.. waiting to celebrate it.
Now for the comments ‘Like you only, Rafi sahab was my most favourite singer, now also he is for me, but i cannot say that he is greater than ghantasala sahab and it cannot be from anyone whosover hears ghantasala sahab’. This is only a personal view and cannot be a generalised assessment. I have listened to Gantasalaji several times and let me say he isn’t as captivating as Rafi sahab. And I have spoken to several Telugu friend (many of them musically inclined) and none of them think Gantasalaji to be at par with or even near Rafi sahab. Gantasalaji was a learned Carnatic musician who also happened to have a filmy (esp. from a South Indian point of view) voice, that set him apart from the other great “Bhagwatars”. If someone hasn’t listened to a better representation of a particular raga, what I can suggest is to stay back in the South 4 a few weeks, attend some concerts of Dr. Balamurly krishnaji and other greats, listen to some recordings of Chembai sir, M.S.Subbalaxmiji and others masters.
For common folks like us (who doesn’t care too much for the ragas and technical finesse) Rafisahab remains the ultimate, with a voice that’s divine, elastic and loaded with emotions, and a style that’s so simple and smooth which makes one wonder how on earth can anyone sing like this. No wonder Yesudas sir and SPB sir (who both grew up listening to Gantasalaji) rates Rafisahab as the pinnacle and consider themselves to be his disciples.
If someone says Rafi doesn’t have a manly voice, it should be ignored. Rafi had the best manly voice, it was such a unique and versatile voice, rich in tonal quality, vibrant, golden and unique. It wasn’t nasal, nor shrill, it was just perfect. His voice had the right amount of bass as well, not too much and not too less, just perfect. Rafi’s voice was truly a once in a lifetime voice.
Ref Post 804:
Why should anyone accept Ghantasala as the best when everyone has the right to acept whoever they want as the best. It has already been proved without a doubt that Rafi saab was and is the greatest singer of all time. A few songs from Ghanstasala will not make a difference.
Ghantasala has not sung many of the similar types of songs that Rafi has sung and he hasn’t even attempted as many genres. Rafi had much more range than Ghantasala, its an open fact no one could touch Rafi when it came to not only singing in a high pitch, but from low to high as well. There is a wide difference when it comes to voice quality as well, whereas Ghanstasala had a one dimensional voice that could suit only selected genres, Rafi had the most perfect, golden, rich in tonal quality, and unique voice that could sing songs in any genre.
In response to the comment:
“i can say with 100% certainty that same will be said by any musician be it carnatic one or hindustani one.”
Well, the majority of musicians, singers and musicians from all over India have said many times that Rafi is the greatest, so are you going to say their opinions are not correct ?.
There is absolutely no comparision. I would like to have seen any singer (including Ghantasala) even attempt a theme like “Laila Majnu” in 1976, music by Madan Mohan. The truth is no one can except Rafi. This is just one of the very many themes and aspects that makes Rafi stand out from the rest.
ref to 804::
khan sahab,
here what you said-“I have never heard in my life any musician singing darbari kannad rag (siva sankari) akin to ghantasala sahab, not even rafi sahab, my favourite singer.”
but i think best ever song composed or sung in darbari kannda is “o dunia ke rakhwale”, range where no one ever reached, beautifully sung by rafi, and this is a most famous song of the respective raaga(it’s a fact) ….
by the i way listened to the ghantasala, and all i can say that he was classically more trained than rafi ji, ghantasala sounds like trained in a karnataka classical whereas rafi in hindustani classical…..
but still as a play back voice he comes no where close to rafi… mention any song by ghanta sala from rock ‘n’ roll, quawalli, gazal, pop genre,playfull mood songs(if there is any from these genres) which can surpass rafi’s song from repective genres…
as a playback singer ghantasala is nowhere close to rafi, remember that rafi was not born to sing just darbari,malkauns, bhairavi … he could sing anything ranging from pop to classical.. rock ‘n’ roll to quwalli …
rafi was ustaad of every possible genre of playback….
To Rakesh Malhotra, Khan & Vitthal:
This site is for Rafi lovers who follow the protocol of not attacking other singers. You guys are inciting us to scoop down to your level. We will still restrain. You may have your opinions and likings which you can take elsewhere and crow about Ghantshala or any other singer whom you like we have not even heard of.
I did hear the Shiva Sundari song that has been showcased so much in your comments. This raga darbari song should be compared with Manna Dey’s Jhanak Jhanak Tori Baje Payaliya. In my opinion Manna Da did a far better job than Ghantshala. His voice does not become metallic at high pitch as does Ghantshala’s. I like Manna Da’s rendition and its presentation in the film Mere Huzoor a lot better than the Shiva Shankari clip that looks like a third rate theatre presentation. Of course, I understand the words of Jhanak Jhank; which increases my enjoyment.
Comparison should not be made between singers of different languages as the lyrics are an integral part of the songs. A comparison of Frank Sinatra and Mohammad Rafi will be as ridicules as that of Rafi and Ghantshala.
@post 795:
Could you explain this comment a bit. ‘I prefer a “manly†voice as it were to a more traditionally meloidious voice’. Do u mean to say Rafi sahab has a traditionally melodious voice and Mukeshji a ‘manly’ one? If it’s so, I think there’s something wrong somewhere for in the preceeding sentence you opine like this: ‘but the voice (Rafi sahab’s)had this, bass’. Can a voice with bass not manly?
Mr. Hussein sheikh
Only one question. Have you heard siva sankari, suvarna sundari, chal ud ja re panchi by ghantasala. Kindly give clear cut answer and kindly do not escape.
Next, is your analysis and knowledge greater than khan sahab, vasu garu, ramakrishna sahab, rakesh malhotra sahab – almost all of them being rafi fans besides being great musicians.
All Rafian friends : kindly give a patient reading to this small para.
One case i want to tell you. Kindly read with patience pl.
In 1959, pandit bhimsen joshi was selected for a telugu film jayabheri to sing the musical composition songs in the film. After hearing the great bhimsen and his recordings, great telugu music director for the film, pendyala nageswara rao, not satisified, sent for ghantasala and recorded songs for jayabheri film. Jayabheri is a great musical film with ghantasala’s songs at peak similar to siva sankari song.
The song madi sarada devi by ghantasala etc. in jayabheri film is considered great by one of our esteemed friends here i.e. Mr. venkatadri garu,( a great fan of rafi sahab) even greater than siva sankari song.
Even great pandit bhimsen joshi’s voice was eclipsed by ghantasala.
Similarly ghantasala’s voice eclipsed even padmavibhushan balamuralikrishna’s, the great carnatic musician in the entire country.
Is rafi sahab greater than bhimsen joshi. Now you tell who is who pl.
Rafi sahab is a immortal singer, so is ghantasala with a little edge over the former.
Rakesh Malhotra sahab, post 787 & 795
I am thankful to your views on my earlier comments on ghantasala sahab’s range with rafi sahab’s range. I concur to your views and your true analysis in terms of musical talent and ability. For sharing of information, you may know me as a seasoned hindustani musician with experience in music of some 35 plus years with participation in over 250 concerts.
I fully agree to your views in your above posts which were also completely supported by other seasoned musicians (carnatic friends) here viz., vasu sahab and ramakrishna sahab. you may pl. refer to their messages on ghantasala sahab’s talent.
Indeed i again say siva sankari by ghantasala sahab is the best and I can say with certainty again that no comparison exists for the song. I have never heard in my life any musician singing darbari kannad rag (siva sankari) akin to ghantasala sahab, not even rafi sahab, my favourite singer.
Indeed I am surprised binu nair sahab has not written any review about the siva sankari song. Had he heard it or deliberately escaping comments after hearing the incomparable song only god knows. As a true rafian and leader of rafi foundation, he should openly accept the truth.
But my humble request people should be open and pure. Accept ghantasala sahab as great, beacuse he is really great. That too pl. accept only after hearing his songs.
Malhotra ji, same case as I have clearly mentioned, siva sankari is incomparable par excellence at all times, the other ones suvarna sundari and chal ud ja re panchi also ghantasala sahab has a clear edge over rafi sahab not only in melody but musical talent and presentation also. Indeed a rare and divine voice likewise rafi sahab.
Like you only, Rafi sahab was my most favourite singer, now also he is for me, but i cannot say that he is greater than ghantasala sahab and it cannot be from anyone whosover hears ghantasala sahab. Moreso, I cannot lie after hearing the musical talent, skill and high pitch of ghantasala sahab and his majestic voice. This is true whether people believe it or not. It is upto them. And i can say with 100% certainty that same will be said by any musician be it carnatic one or hindustani one.
here is the magical duet by rafi ji-lata ji, music by naushad ji…….
movie- mere mehboob…. i rate this duet among 10 best duets of rafi ji….
http://youtube.com/watch?v=c1rBzjcM848
here is another very soothing rafi-lata duet, music by sochin deb bormon…..
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bTDEbAb6eng
here is another great song by rafi-naushad combo
movie -dil diya dard liya(1966)
lyrics by shakeel badayuni….
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vlDC0UqWGlE
Re post 794 :
variety is the spice of life and people love variety in life as well
as in music.
we listen to many singers of our choice but to come in to
a mohd rafi site and say rafi saaheb is a second grade singer, is
unacceptable and bad manners.
beware of mischief mongers and trouble makers in this site
rafi fans.
binu nair…. mumbai.