True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
a new book on legend rafi saaheb release:
Legend Mohe Rafi book release function at – Pune – at manohar mangal karyalay near Nal stop on 18th august from 5.00 p.m. to 7.00 p.m followed by lilting memories and songs of the legend.
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai, 9833 250 701
Hi all,
I was just browsing through this otherwise great website and chanced across this forum. I am greatly amused by these never-ending debates of who is the greatest singer between Rafi saab and Kishore da etc.
The debate was once actively taken up by us in RMIM (see posts from 1993-1995 etc.) , although it was a lot more friendly and lot more involved in technical aspects.
Although I enjoy a lot of great, superb renditions by Rafi saab during the golden era of HFM, I am at variance with claims by “rafians” that Rafi saab was as much at home in singing classical songs as he is in singing the Shammi Kapoor variety.
Rafi was anywhere but home as far as singing classical songs are concerned. His ability in that genre is very average. IMHO, he sold well because only he had the “screen voice” that could attempt classical numbers.
Most people who are uninitiated into classical music blindly look for the “taans” and “harkats” put in by the singer to judge their ability. But that is not the goal or motive of classical vocal training. The goal of any kind of classical training in vocal music is to achieve control of and mastery over Sur. If you do not achieve that, all the taans and other gymnastics you put in are irrelevant.
So, from that point of view in mind, it is impossible to say with any certainty that Rafi saab was better than Kishore. The effortlessness with which Kishore moves/switches from register to register is unmatched. No, Rafi saab couldn’t match it. Rafi has a tendency to yell when he goes above top Rishabh.
If you compare Kishore’s “Koi hamdam na rahaa, koi saharaa na rahaa” from “Jhumroo” with Rafi’s “Man tarpat hari darshan ko aaj” from “Baiju Bawra”, both the songs have the same range (Mandra Pancham to Taar Gandhaar for the Kishore song, Mandra Dhaivat to Taar Madhyam for the Rafi song), you will note that Kishore’s movement across the range is effortless, Rafi’s is more labored. And when Rafi hits that high Madhyam: “sun more vyaakul man” or “sab guNiijana pe”, it is clear that Rafi is yelling and he is outside his comfort zone.
People also claim that since Rafi can sing at an “absolute” higher pitch than Kishore, he is a greater singer. But anybody who knows Hindustani Classical Music knows that this is irrelevant.
The placement of the base note / tonic is irrelevant. I’m assuming that
the tonic is placed wherever the singer finds it comfortable. Given that
in Indian music, the octave is relative to the singer’s pitch, I don’t see why the fact that Rafi tends to sing at a higher pitch than Kishore should mean anything. If Kishore can reach and sustain *Kishore’s taar gandhaar* more comfortably and with more pleasant results than Rafi can reach *Rafi’s taar gandhaar*, then the fact that Rafi’s taar gandhaar is F or F# while Kishore’s taar gandhaar is merely D# or E is beside the point. It’s not like they are tenors being judged on the quality of their high C. In fact, using this logic, one could say that Kishore was a better singer because he could sing at a much lower pitch than Rafi could.
It could be argued that Rafi had a slightly wider vocal range (about 2 octaves) than Kishore (about 1.5-1.75 octaves), but, IMO, Kishore showed greater authority within his vocal range than Rafi showed in his.
Besides, technical mastery is just one and not the only criteria for judging singers. Kishore kumar was truly original. That he could do what he did with no training in music is truly inspirational.
सà¥à¤µà¤¤à¤‚तà¥à¤°à¤¤à¤¾ दिवस पर किशोर कà¥à¤®à¤¾à¤° का गाया हà¥à¤† à¤à¤• बेशकीमती और दà¥à¤°à¥à¤²à¤ गीत !!
ref my earlier post. the correct link to this rare song on india’s independence day by kishore kumar is available on the following link :
New Delhi, Delhi arrived from google.co.in on “गीतों की महफिल: सà¥à¤µà¤¤à¤‚� �à¥à¤°à¤¤à¤¾ दिवस पर किशोर कà¥à¤®à¤¾à¤° का गाया हà¥à¤† à¤à¤• बेशकीमती और दà¥à¤°à¥à¤²à¤ गीत !!”
one can find the link in the blog : GEETON KI MEHFIL under “Live traffic feed” which is on the left panel of the blog. The song goes on like this :
पनà¥à¤¦à¥à¤°à¤¹ अगसà¥à¤¤ की पà¥à¤¨à¥à¤¯à¤¤à¤¿à¤¥à¤¿ फ़िर धूमधाम से आयी,
à¤à¤¾à¤°à¤¤ के कोने कोने में खà¥à¤¶à¤¿à¤¯à¤¾à¤²à¥€ है छायी ।…… the blog author has however opined that the word Punyatithi is a misnomer here as it is associated with the death anniversary. however, the song throws up this question about who the other singer is apart from the credited kishore kumar.
I just listened to a private patriotic song by Kishore kumar and another voice that resembles that of rafi sahab. could anyone confirm if the voice in the song is that of rafi sahab apart from that of kishore kumar ? this is a very very rare song and the link is given hereunder for all knowledgeable rafi-fans to throw some light on it :
http://mahaphil.blogspot.com/2008/08/blog-post_09.html
i can see traces of rafi sahab’s voices in the other singer. other information on this private song is available on http://www.downmelodylane.com/nf_kishore.html
but no information is given on who the other singer is. it could be interesting to see what rafi-fans have to say on this.
rafi ke bare mein main kya tarif karoon unki tarif karna
suraj ki diya dkhane ke baraber hai
is duniya mein jo sab se badi gam ki baat hai ke md rafi saheb is duniya mein
nahi hai aur unse mulakat is duniya mein nahi ho sakti.
phir bhi unke gane amar hai aur jab tak duniya kayem rahegi unka nam jinda
rahe ga
md aftab alam
My dear friends !
Today is 31st July…an inauspicious day for all the music lovers.
Today, in 1980, we lost our beloved singer Padmashree Mohammad
Rafi Sahab. He was not less than an angel.
Let us remember him on this day and pray for his divine soul !
May God bless his soul eternal peace in the heaven !!!
Thanks.
-Raajkumar Akela
ज़मी से फलक तक सà¤à¥€ आà¤à¤– नम है
सà¤à¥€ के दिलों मे बसा à¤à¤• गम है
कहाठखो गया वो सà¥à¤°à¥‹à¤‚ का सिकंदर
बिना जिसके संगीत का सूर à¤à¤• कम है
-राजकà¥à¤®à¤¾à¤° “अकेला”
Rafi sahab ke bare me mere jaisa Git-Sangit ka angutha chhap ladka agar kuchh bhi kahe to vah unka apman hoga.
mai to bas saari umar unhe sunna chahta hu.
Good News for Mohd Rafi Fans
Mr. Farrukh doing great job at http://www.radio4fm.com/# and click on Listen Live there will be programs on Mohd Rafi from 267\2008 till 31/07/2008 from10 pm to 1 am Dubai time and in India time 11 30 pm to 2 30 am……from 2678 to 307\2008 from 10 pm to 11pm and on 317\2008 from from 10 to 1 am.
He is doing great job from few years, I hope people in media will be honest as he is as I think. also you can send sms msg at 0097504625891 from 10 pm to 1 am UAE(Dubai time)
Thanks a lot Mr.Farrukh for this great job
ref to 938::
Harvinder sir, pls don’t mind. i also respect chitragupt a lot for his melodies, he was great melody creator.
here is famous bhojpuri song of rafi-chitragupt combo,melody is great::
http://www.esnips.com/doc/7975915f-babb-40c6-8a95-31ded4f28f10/Sonwa-Ke-Pinjra-Mein-Band-Bhaile-Haye-Raam
and who can forget this great rafi number by chitragupt from aakashdeep::
http://www.esnips.com/doc/3c13855f-36ac-4c02-b79d-04bfc4fe7e61/Mujhe-Dard-e-Dil-Ka-Pata-Na-Akash-Deep
Yes, Mr.XXX, this is the one and thank you for posting it here. See how easily Rafisahab descends to the lower notes, while in some of the film songs of the same period (late ’70s) he was not too comfortable (by his standards) singing at lower notes. Perhaps the presence of his ‘guide’ at his side has something to do with it.
mr.cherian,
were you talking of this version, i got it from another rafi sahab’s site, its truly a gem of a song, rafi sahab did some improvisations as you mentioned in your previous post::
http://eternalrafi.com/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=343&Itemid=75
xxx and your post 935. I never ever claimed that chal ud ja re panchi to be the only or one of the few marvelous songs of rafi saheb for chitragupt. this was just an example. i have always believed and rated chitragupt and ravi higher than more popular md’s. both these md’s were very clean, indian and melodious in their compositions. it is shame that such fine md’s are not remembered much.
so mr xxx please do not think otherwise.
Thank you, Mr.XXX for the song. Never heard it before and it was some experience, listening to it. The finale is superb, isn’t it?
I serched in the youtube for the DD verson of ‘man tarpat…’ but can’t find it. Infact I heard it just once way back in the early ’90s. I liked it as much as the original film version. Rafisahab’s voice was naturally more mature in this version and he did make some improvisations too.
And thanks for explaining the reasons why Rafisahab wasn’t as prolific with SDB as he was with some other MDs.
Pyarelal ji’s recent interview, as usually he remembered rafi sahab also…
——————————————————————————————
I never called Rafisahab by name in all the years that I knew him. He was that kind of a man. If he sat in front of you, he would not look at you. If you praised him, he would raise his hands upwards as if to say Allah ki dua hai . On Id, he would personally drive up to our house and send up 2 kgs of mutton. There was never a dikhawa (show). He spoke very less.
——————————————————————————————
link::
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Lifestyle/Soul_Curry_Meri_dosti_mera_pyar/articleshow/3254875.cms
ref to p 933::
chitragupt ka jab bhi zikr hota hai to sirf “chal udd ja re panchhi ” ka hi naam kyon aata hai, he was much more than that, chitragupt-rafi ji ke aur gaano mein bhi prakash daale yahan sab log please…
here are some chitragupt-rafi gems,
ye sach hai dunia walo::
http://youtube.com/watch?v=I9WtnvcdTjc
kal hamara hai::
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jPOnOqsixEI
main kaun hoon:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lJ9ckiCzwYU
laagi chhotey na(duet)::
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UHb7_7y_R24&feature=related
and here is famous chitragupt number with lata, daga daga vai vai vai::
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Se6RTSrogHw
mr.anil cherian, ref to your posts 916 and 920::
no i haven’t watched or listened that doordarshan’s version of “man tarpat” yet. could you please provide me the link and plz jot down how it compares to original one…
regarding sdb::let us only talk of a golden era(50s and 60s),and in 60s from 1961-69 sdb did only 15 movies(very less, when compared to others) and most of them had rafi as a dominant playback singer, even in the movies like guide, teen deviyaan, dev was gaga over kishore but sdb emphasized on rafi, notice that kishore got all the duets from “teen deviyaan” but this might be due to rafi-lata rift otherwise i am sure that those duets would have also gone to rafi sahab.
i believe that to neutralize the impact of gems by rafi-naushad, rafi-sd and rafi-roshan from 60s requires a large no. of gems by other mds(keeping rafi ji-madan ji gazals in totally different class)
here is “dil ka dard niraala” music by sdb, lyrics by shakeel, movie-kaise kahoon(1964), singer-rafi sahab::
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ppguIG-Ugno
Post 927 Mr Haldar. I note with intrest that you rate Ravi saheb above KA and RDB for Rafi Saheb’s compositions.
In my opinion Ravi and Chitragupt are two MD’s who outshined RDB in terms of melody and quality of songs, not only for Rafi Saheb’s songs alone. To me they were quality whereas RDB was quantity and a smaller percentage quality wise- one quality was that he was SDB’s son and other being Asha Bhonsle’s husband to be remembered and popularised commercialy these days.
Genius of Ravi’s sweetness can be heard from Khandaan’s Tumhi mere mandir Tumhi meri pooja. What a composition. Listen to Kaajal and Nai Roshni songs by Mod Rafi Saheb.
ChitraGupt’s Bhabhi number Chal ud ja re panchhi or Lata’s number from Akash Deep – Dil ka diya jala ke gaya yeh kaun meri tanhai mein.
These are a few examples of serenity such MD’s gave to hindi songs.
Post 929 : raju saahab : re : the hits of rafi saaheb, your choice is mine – too. naushad, shankar jaikishan, op nayyar are the titans of hfm and they are followed by ravi, laxmikant pyarelal, usha khanna , sdb and roshan saaheb.
all these men and women used rafi saahebs vocals for 40 plus years.
due credit to chitragupta, hansraj behl and the many unsung composers of the music world.
binu nair, mumbai, rafi foundation & Sargam Magazine.
Ref. post 927
yes sir, ravi – rafi combinations excel. The video posted was a great song from the sixties. Nice to hear it and thank you for uploading it. Another great from ravi -rafi was chaudvin ka chand ho, a great melody.
Ref.post 929
Raju sir, thank you for your compliments. Your words shall definitely show the direction for keeping the rafi naam going up.
Rafi ji was a illustrious direction to all the other great singers even from other languages. Of course, for your comments, i agree with you same was the case with Shri ghantasala, who was like rafi ji and incomparable in his own field.
Ref. post 926
Producers have the final say. But on whole during 50’s and 60’s rafi was the sole leader in hindi film playback singing. Majority of the music directors did prefer only rafi sahab for majority of songs. Even same is the case with producers.
Mujhe bhool gaye kya!
Dear rafi lovers,
I am also a fan of rafi saheb. Rafi saheb’s voice is a magic voice and shall continue for a long long time as long as the film world continues. I am from hyderabad and i feel i have missed this site for long. In fact,this site gives a wonderful analysis of the contributions of the great rafi saheb specially to the younger generation people who do not know much about the legend’s greatness. I congratulate all the rafi lovers for keeping the name of great rafi saheb going. I was busy reading many messages in this site for the past few days and fascinated by the discussion and comparison of rafi saheb with other great singers in particular, shri ghantasala, who is generally adored by telugu/southern people as the telugu/southern rafi. (But i was sad to see the discussion culminating, of course at few places, in disgusting tones, which should not be the fact while discussing about two great incomparable contemporaries) In fact, as far as my knowledge goes, rafi saheb had great acclamation for other great singers also. I do not know about other languages, but i know one thing which i can tell. Mohd. RAfi saheb has sung some songs in telugu language also and while he was singing telugu songs, rafi saheb paid a visit to shri ghantasala’s house who in turn held rafi saheb in high esteem and rafi saheb in turn exchanged complimentaries. This was one of the great qualities of rafi saheb and shri ghantasala.
I have also read regarding sargam magazine by shri binu nair, rafi foundation. This is indeed a great boon for people who want to know about rafi saheb. I feel the magazine assumes its importance day by day and becomes successful in popularising the great rafi sahab’s contribution to the hindi film music.
Post 927 Mr. Haldar saheb
Rafi saheb’s great hits came from naushad, shankar jai kishan and o p nayyar. Though there are other music directors, i feel the 3 music directors have played a great role in rafi sahabs melodious numbers. Whatever a music director talent be, it cannot shine unless a great singer like rafi saheb or ghantasala is present to breathe life into the songs composed by the music directors. In fact, music directors have come into prominence by the great melodious voice of rafi saheb. We can observe till today, rafi saheb’s songs continue to enjoy immense popularity, the fact is we remember rafi saheb’s voice as the benchmark and the music director’s are next. I hope you agree with me.
well comments all others guys ,,,same these abilities have rafi in our personality…..and he has owner a lot epicure….specialy his voice has magic….and a very delicious vioce ,,,,,,,,i like his songs a lot of but speciall one which i like ”HUM TOU PARDASE” i do tribute…..
ref post 917:
I agree with mr. sanjay arora that o. p. nayyar’s contributions are immense as far as rafi saab is concerned. I’ve always included op in rafi’s “pancha ratna”. Rafi lovers should do a dispassionate analysis of the mid 50s to realise how important the sher-e-punjab’s contributions were towards rafi saab’s career. I am slowly starting to believe that if it were not for the competition from op, sj and sd would not have switched to rafi the way they did.
I also agree with mr. arora, mr. mehboob and mr. narayan that we rafi lovers always tend to underestimate ravi. Ravi ji was one of the biggest rafi bhakts and if he had his way, all his compositions would have gone to rafi saab, even in the 70s. We should always acknowledge that. I would have liked to place ravi in the top 5 rafi composer list, but it’s very difficult given the level of competition. But I’d definitely place him above rd and ka, and probably on par with lp. But when it comes to ghazals, he is no. 2 on my list, next to the ghazal king, the one and only madan mohan. Also, ask yourself the following question: In rafi’s top 50, how many would be ravi’s compositions? At least seven! And that tells you what a great combo the ravi-rafi combo was.
Here’s a ravi-rafi gem from nartaki:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=e8ReKM-djqU
POST NO.923
DEAR MEHBOOBJI
YES , YOU ARE RIGHT REGARDING PRODUCERS PRESSURIZED MUSIC DIRECTOR RAVI TO GET SOME SONGS SUNG BY OTHER SINGERS.
BUT NOT ONLY PRODUCERS , SOMETIME STARS ALSO REQUESTED/INSISTED TO GET A PARTICULAR SONG TO BE SUNG BY OTHER SINGER INSTEAD OF RAFI SAHAB .
AS AN EXAMPLE – THE SONG ” YEH DIL HAI MOHABBAT KA PYASA ….” FROM THE FILM : ‘ DIL NE PHIR YAAD KIYA ‘ WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SUNG BY RAFI SAHAB BUT AT THE LAST MOMENT DHARMENDRAJI INSISTED MD SONIK-OMI TO GET THE SONG BE RECORDED IN THE VOICE OF MUKESHJI . THEN MD SONIK-OMI REVISED THE WHOLE COMPOSITION OF THE SONG WHICH WAS PREVIOUSLY PREPARED FOR RAFI SAHAB AND GOT THE SONG RENDERED BY MUKESHJI .
THOUGH MD SONIK-OMI ( WHO ALWAYS USED TO PREFER RAFI SAHAB AND USED TO CALL RAFI SAHAB FONDLY AS ‘ KHAN SAHAB ‘ ) WAS BOUND TO TAKE MUKESHJI INSTEAD OF RAFI SAHAB !
THIS MATTER WAS TOLD BY MUSIC DIRECTOR OMI (OF SONIK-OMI ) – IN ONE OF HIS INTERVIEWS IN A VIVID BHARTI PROGRAME .
BEST REGARDS/ A.T.M. SALIM
Post 923: ravi tried kishore in film dharkan but it did’nt work out . the song was : mai to chala, jidhar chale raasta………….
ravi saaheb is on record saying : the success of songs made many decades back have come to stay forever and (quote) ” i never imagined they would last so long and give us so much appreciation (shohrat) even to this day.”
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai, 9833 250 701
post 921 narayanji
the song “aaj mere yaar ki shadi hai …” is from the film : ‘ admi sadak ka ‘.
regards/a.tm. salim.
Re post 921:
Narayan ji,
the song ‘Aaj mere yaar ki shaadi hai’ is from the film ‘Aadmi Sadak Ka’ picturised on Shatrughan Sinha.
Ravi ji is not talked about much and i feel he is under-estimated, but i love his songs with Rafi sahab (over 250 songs).
Ravi took other singers because of pressure from producers (in particular BR Chopra). If Ravi had it his own way he would have given all songs to his friend Rafi sahab.
In an interview he said ‘Agar Rafi sahab gaate to kuch aur baat hoti’ the english translation being ‘If Rafi sahab had sung, it would have been something else’.
I know that M.Rafi is the greatest thing to have happened to my EARS EVER
Post 917 Aroraji,
Yes Rafi sahab and Raviji were made for each other. Even in the 70s Dharkan Rafi sahab sung Mere dosth thujhe tera meeth mubarak and they maintained till the Badshah”s passing away in 80.
Infact apart from Chaudivin ka chand,Dus lakh,Bharosa, Aaj aur Kal,Do Badan,Neel Kamal,Waqt,Kajal and many others one song is mandatory for all marriage functions even today … Aaj mere yaar ki shaadi hai and I do not know the film name and I think Raviji has also sung with our Badshah
Mr.XXX:
‘Zindagi bhar….’ has some resemblance to ‘man tarpat…’, I suppose it’s only incidental being composed in the same raaga… “Man tarpat…” is richer, heavier and more complex. The ‘bhava’ is also different in both songs, the former is a sad/philosophical score while the latter is a spiritual one.
It’s nice of you to provide the links to ‘zindagi bhar…’. I am hearing it for the first time. BTW, have you listened to the ‘man tarpat…’ sung live by Rafisahab (and conducted by Naushad saab) for Doordarshan?
haldar ji:a section of the fickle minded film industry tried to “retire” rafi saaheb when he was alive first. then, after 1980 they wanted the public to “forget” rafi. i remember, rafi should have got the filmfare award that year for the songs listed by anmol singh, but some obsure song got away with the award. basic courtesy was “denied” to the king even in death.
and this made rafi loyalists to re-group and take forward the rafi legacy – forward – with a vengeance.
rafi saaheb lovers and music lovers always remembered rafi saaheb and for them rafi never did die.
rafi “resurrected” is for people who thought rafi days are over and mere noise and yelling could be “passed” on as melodious songs.
rafi resurrected is the signal of return of “melody” in to our lives once again.
and, yes rafi supporters will try and get the video footage of the programme.
binu nair, rafi foundation.. mumbai…
Sonu to sing Rafi’s songs in the UK:
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080619/jsp/frontpage/story_9432035.jsp
I personally don’t like the title “rafi resurrected” because rafi saab has not died; he lives with us every single day, every single hour, every single minute, every single second. There is no need to resurrect him. But this symphony orchestra is doing a great job in spreading rafiana and we should support these guys. They understand what our dear friend raju b. doesn’t understand. maybe we should all buy him a ticket to attend the show.
There are a lot of rafi lovers in the uk; would someone please attend the show and let us know how it went. Also, would it be possible for the rafi foundation to acquire a video of the show?
REF MAIL 904,RAVI SAAB NEVER SWITCHED TO KK,ONLY IN DHADKAN KK GOT 3 SONGS COMPARED TO RAFI SAAB `S 1 AND IN `EK MAHAL HO SAPNO KA` KK GOT ONE SOLO COMPARED TO RAFI SAAB`S 2 I.E ONE SOLO AND ONE DUET WITH LATA JI,ALL OTHER OF RAVI SAAB TILL 1980 HAD RAFI SAAB HAS THE MAIN SINGER.
MR.BINU NAIR AND ALL OTHER DIE HARD FANS OF RAFI SAAB,IT WAS THE MAGIC OF NAYYAR SAAB AND THE COMPOSITIONS OF CHITRAGUPT FROM 1955 ONWARDS SPECIALLY THE DREAM HITS OF NAYYAR SAAB FROM 1957 ONWARDS ,THAT WE ARE ABLE TO DISCUSS RAFI SAAB`S POSITION AS THE GREATEST SINGER EVER.RAFI`S GOLDEN PERIOD CANNOT BE COMPLETE WITHOUT THE GREAT SCORES LIKE `
1 KALI TOPI LAL RUMAL
2 ZABAK
3 OONCHE LOG
4 POLICE DETECTIVE
5 MADAM XYZ
6 CHAND MERE AAJA
7 NAACHE NAGIN BAAJE BEEN
8 MAIN CHUP RAHUNGI
9NAVRATRI
10 BHABI
AND OTHER MYTHOLIGICAL HITS LIKE SHRI KRISHNA BHAKTI ETC.
THERE WERE FRESH SCORES BY N.DUTTA,WHICH ESTABLISHED RAFI SAAB `S POSITION AS THE NUMBER ONE SINGER FROM 1955 ONWARDS.
MY REQUEST TO ALL THE CONTRIBUTORS PLEASE REVERT BACK TO 1955 ONWARDS ,THAN ONLY WE WILL KNOW WHO CONTRIBUTED WHBT IN RAFI SAAB`S CARRER AND THEN DECIDE THE LISTING OF COMPOSERS.
I WILL ALSO SUMBIT MY LIST SHORTLY ,BUT RAVI AND CHITRGUPT WILL BE DEFINATELY THERE WITH A BETTER RANKING .
Mr.XXX:
Yes, SDB created some true gems for Rafisahab, I fully acknowledge it. But to me SDB will not be there in the top 5 when we speak about the association MDs had with the ‘baadshah’. Let’s compare MM (or LP) with SDB, the former never ever swayed an inch from their conviction that the ‘baadshah’ was ‘the’ singer and only he could bring out fully and beautifully what they conceived and created. The latter made some absolute wonders with the ‘baadshah’ but only for a period (mid ’50s to mid ’60s) reaching ‘great’ status in the process and then switched over to another singer (a good one at that) and another style(?). I’d call this a marriage of convenience rather than mutual love and admiration.
To conclude ,SDB is a great composer, no questions asked but personally speaking, I’m not sure whether he was fair to Rafisahab in the overall picture and deserves to be placed ahead of OPN or LP when it comes to the associationship MDs had with Rafisahab.
Narayanji:
I am not too familiar with Rafi-Chitragupta combo. Could you list out some of the songs of this team?
But KA never really cold-shouldered Rafisahab, did they? True, they gave many good tunes to others but their best (mostly) went to Rafisahab (especially in the ’60s). One also has to take into account the fact that there are other characters at play when deciding the singer- hero of the film, producer et al and KA (I suppose) weren’t commercially big enough to always demand what they wanted.
My sentence should read as:
“Because I ranked Ravi/Roshan below K-A does not mean they came after, and vice-versa (if it was the other way around, Ravi/Roshan ahead of K-A), it was just how I ranked them at the time.”
Mr. XXX,
You brought up an excellent idea of ranking composers with Rafi saab, but in my view, all of them were excellent with Rafi saab that it is hard to rank them. You are right, Ravi/Roshan would both be very high on Rafi’s list, but I also rate K-A’s output with Rafi high as well. Because I ranked Ravi/Roshan below K-A does not mean they came after, it was just how I ranked them at the time. OPN may make it into the Top 5 for Rafi but for now I put him at 6, and the order can change. Mr. Narayan mentioned Chitragupta who had over 250 songs with Rafi, he would also merit recognition in the top 10, as would usha khanna, but there are many others as well, so it is very hard.
——————
Mr. Narayan
I don’t agree that K-A did not prefer Rafi-saab, they did prefer him. You are right that they preferred Mukesh, but it was along with Rafi. On July 31st 1980, in the male side, Rafi most likely had the most number of songs for K-A, followed by Kishore and then Mukesh. I think MK came next in line. The K-A chapter in Rafi’s book is spread from 1958-1980 and is consistent.
——————
Binu-ji,
Thanks for the info on SJ, Naushad and OPN “royalties”, its very interesting.
Here’s my list:
1. SJ (Arzoo, Suraj, Junglee, Janwar, Sasural, Raj Kumar, Mere Huzoor)
2. LP (Dosti, Aap Aye Bahar Aye, Anjana, Farz, Parasmani, Ayee Milan ki Bela)
3. MM (Ghazal, Chiraag, Haste Zakhm, Laila Majnu, Haqeeqat)
4. RAVI (Chaudvin ka Chand, Do Badan, Khandan, Neel Kamal, Aaj aur Kal)
5. NAUSHAD (Mere Mehboob, Bawju Bawra, Ram aur Shyam, Ganga Jamna)
6. SDB (Guide, Pyaasa, Tere Ghar ke Samne, Kala Bazaar, Talaash)
7. ROSHAN (Taj Mahal, Barsat ki Raat, Aarti, Bheegi Raat, Chitralekha)
8. OPN (Naya Daur, Kashmir ki Kali)
9. KA (JJPK, Geet, Hasina Maan Jayegi, Maryada, Choti Bahu)
10. RDB (HKKN, Mela, Pyar ka Mausam, Abdullah)
11. USHA KHANNA / CHTRAGUPTA / SONIK OMI
Who cares who the top MDs, song writers, actors, etc were.
All we care is that Rafi sahab is the singer.
MYK sir ur list almost matches with mine except that KA should come in 10 and all the Rafi loyalists Chithragupt ( had over 250 songs),Usha Khanna and Sonik Omi team safely at 7.
Pardon me as KA never gave pref to Rafi. Their all time favs were MK N Mukesh
mr.myk,
thanks for your list, however in my humble opinion, composers at #8 slot should be swapped with composers at #7, i think ravi/roshan association with rafi ji is much more memorable with superior quality comparatively? do you agree here?
mr.unknow,
where would you rate sd and roshan, who comparatively did lesser work with rafi sahab but did memorable work with great quality.
myk: u r choice is my choice re : the the first two composers, shankar jaikishan and naushad.
the third one is o.p. nayyar who without the support of big banners will give a fright to any composer and lead the charts.
and , these three composers get the highest “royalties’ from the music companies and this is supported by mumbai’s music historian c.m. desai.
binu nair…mumbai
Mr. XXX, here are my top ten composers with Rafi saab:
1. Shankar-Jaikishan: The variety is amazing, you have every type of song from every genre from this combination. There are many landmark songs, and together they ruled for a very long time. They probably created the best romantic songs of all time.
2. Naushad: The man who was instrumental in giving Rafi a break, and together they created many of the finest songs in HFM. “O Duniya Ke Rakhwale” and many more are landmark songs.
3. S.D. Burman: Dada’s best came through Rafi and their pinnacle was Guide. It was only with Rafi, that Dada could reach the heights that he did. An awesome combination, with many outstanding songs.
4. Laxmikant-Pyarelal: Rafi sang the most for this duo followed very closely by S-J. Again, like S-J the variety is amazing and this combo has so many classics. Right from 1963-1980, this LP record with Rafi churned out hit after hit.
5. Madan Mohan: This combo had so much “soul” and such a haunting feeling. MM’s output with Rafi is as good as his output with Lata. They have classics in each decade.
6. OPN: Amazing combination, this composer was able to create such fantastic songs because he had Rafi by his side. OPN was instrumental in Rafi’s success from the 50’s onwards, and in turn Rafi helped OPN zoom past the competition.
7. Kalyanji-Anandji: They also have greats in every genre. From 1958 until 1980, the KA-Rafi team produced winners and classics. A very under-rated combo, they arguably created the best Lata-Rafi duets. This combo was a mixture of sweetness and melody.
8. Ravi/Roshan: This position is a tie, as both combinations were brillaint. Ravi produced many more songs with Rafi, but the impact of each Roshan song was so good that it makes up for that.
9. R.D. Burman: Pancham’s best came through Rafi, whether it be with NH or at other times. From Teesri Manzil onwards, the combo splashed the charts with their classics.
10. Usha Khanna/Chitragupta/Sonik-Omi and others: I will do the same with Mr. XXX and divide this slot between other composers as its hard to leave them out when they created so many excellent songs with Rafi-saab.
As I think the best five are 1,SJ,2 LP ,3 Naushand,4 MM 5 OPN,maybe most of you don’t agree with me
mr.cherian,
thanks for your list, its a nice ranking, but i think its unkind to rank sd at 8, don’t you think that he should be right there at top 5?? i shall give examples to you that what magic they bring together, sd should be at top 5, by the way, please listen to this rafi sahab’s number. beautiful composition by hans raj behel::
http://www.esnips.com/doc/2821c1b3-5f5d-4928-9ebc-9a15259839a5/Zindagi-Bhar-Gham-Judai-Ka-Mujhe
please share your views on this song, this song is based on a raag “malkauns” and i think there is a influence of greatest “malkauns” number “man tarpat” in this song, what do you say?. how would you compare these two songs?
Mr.XXX and dear Rafi-lovers:
Here’s my listing:
1. Naushad: He and Rafisahab were made for each other.
2. SJ: Their variety with Rafisahab was amazing and I believe they’re the ones who brought out the best (on a consistent basis) from Rafisahab.
3.MM: He may be swapped with SJ as my #2. What haunting melodies he’s created for the baadshah. I’d add ‘aap ke pehloo mein…’ and ‘kehna ek deewana…’ to the songs mentioned by Mr.XXX.
4. LP: Could be a surprising choice as #4. But having grown up listening to the duo, I have a soft-corner for them and I really admire them for standing up for Rafisahab when the going wasn’t easy for him.
5. Ravi: What can one say about the creator of ‘chaudvin ka chand…’, ‘mili khaak mein…’ and ‘tujko pukare mera pyaar…’.
6. OPN: He really made a ball with Rafisahab.
7. Roshan: Created aesthetically brilliant songs with Rafisahab, ‘zindagi bhar nahin….’ and ‘jo wada kiya…’ alone will make the duo incomparable.
8. SDB: Had some great songs with Rafisahab, but I can’t forgive him for offering too little for the baadshah when he was up against it.
9. Ushakhanna: Superb songs and great belief in the baadshah even when he was down.
10. KA: Who can forget ‘akele hain…’ and ‘aaja tujko…’
mr.myk, mr.anil cherian, mr.haldar and dear all rafi fans, please share with us your list of top 10 composers for rafi sahab, it would be great if you will post specific reasons along with the list…
here is mine::
1.naushad- truly great composer and “mousiki ka ustaad”, naushad is top in my list, his contribution to rafi’s career is great, i believe that in pre-baiju bawra era, talat got all the kheer, his association with anil biswas ans c ramchndra was great, but with baiju bawra naushad sahab introduced something different, he mixed the class and mass very effectively, imo he made the classy genre more prominent, thus helped rafi sahab a lot, as rafi ji was technically much more perfect than “talat”. although i still can’t decide that which voice had more velvet touch, but rafi sahab’s voice was more stable, with great range, harkat and by all other technical aspects he was superior to talat. but it doesn’t mean that naushad-rafi were not good before baiju bawra, they were equally good in dillagi(1949) with two great solos “tere kooche mein” and “is dunia mein aey dil walo” deedar(1951) and dulari(1949). but they revolutionized hfm with baiju baawra.
2.Sachin Dev burman- sachin da comes 2nd to my list, initially sachin da didn’t used rafi much but whatever they did from 1957-65 was sheer magic, also this period had 3 of the best albums by sacihn da,(pyaasa,guide,msta) all having rafi as a male dominating singer, and who can forget “dekhi zamane ki yaari” from kkp(1959), “khoya khoya chand” from kala baazar (1960) and “tu kahan ye bata ” from tere ghar ke saamne(1963). so it can be safely concluded that dada’s best came through rafi sahab.
there is an interesting trivia regarding one of the dada-rafi ji gem, as told by pancham in one of his interview- once baba said to me that “pancham, go to shailendra’s house and ask him about lyrics, don’t come back to home without lyrics” pancham reached shailendra’s house and asked about lyrics, shailendra took pancham along with him for a long walk, few hours have passed, pancham again asked, shailendra replied “write now i can’t, there has to be some mood to write off lyrics” pancham said “baba said that don’t come back without lyrics” than shailendra said “ok,play this matchbox, let me think something” and while pancham playing matchbox shailendra came out with following words,while looking at sky::
khoya khoya chand
khula aasman
aakhon mein sari raat jayegi
tumko bhi kaise neend aayegi
3.Madan mohan- madan mohan was one of the finest we have ever had, he is known more for lata but his association with rafi was great as well, leave his 50s and 60s with rafi, see what he did with rafi in 70s, songs like “tum jo mil gaye ho”, “barbad-e-mohabbat”.. were landmark songs, also mm was instrumental in bringing rafi back into playback arena with laia majnu(1976). apart from this there are various gazals like “rang aur noor ki” “tujhe kya sunau dilruba” “teri aakhon ke siva” “tumhari zulf ke saaye mein” etc etc..
4.shankar-jaikishan – undoubtedly the finest composer duo we have ever had, they rocked the nation with rafi through their western numbers, variety of s-j’s music was amazing from “radhike tune” to “ehasan tera hoga” TO “ye aasu mere dil ki” to “jan pehchan ho” and so forth, s-j occasionally used rafi in early 50s but from dev’s “love marriage(1959)” rafi became regular in s-j camp and rest is a history.
5.ravi-he formed great patnership with rafi sahab, rafi ji won his first filmfare award under the music direction of ravi, song was “chaudhavi ka chand”.. in one of his interview with ameen sayani in “sangeet ke sitaron ki mehfil” ravi recalled that initially he was not happy with his composition of this song, later he composed a new tune and requested guru dutt to conduct a recording sessions with rafi sahab, however they didn’t get the dates of rafi sahab, than guru assured him that tune is great, and same tune is released with movie, became great hit. rafi sahab also won his first national award under ravi’s baton, later in 70s ravi switched to kishore but his association with rafi sahab in 60s is enough for me to rank him in the top 10 of rafi’s composers.
6.roshan- although singer neutral composer but came out with many gems for rafi sahab, “mann re tu kahe na dheer dhare” is history in itself, apart fom this there are various quawallis, romantic songs,sad songs. i love rafi-roshan patnership from “barsaat ki raat” to “anokhi raat” .. “mile na phool to kaato se dosti karli” was last gem came out from this patnership.
7.o p nayyar- very strict and disciplined but a true person, he had such a big heart that in any of his interview you will find him applauding his contemporaries be it c ramchandra, sd burman, s-j ,anil biswas or roshan. he showed his high regards for every great composer. no need to write that how much magical his association with rafi.
8. laxmikant-pyarelal- another very talented music directors, they came up with huge amount of gems with rafi ji, they came up with landmark songs in each decade but i particularly like their association with rafi ji in 60s, “chaunga main tujhe” is still very much famous, once c ramchandra played this song for the “fauji bhai log” in his jaimala gold program, such was the impact of this song.
9.rahul dev burman – although he is known more for the kishore but his association with rafi was great too, apart from quawallis and rock ‘n’ rolls this combo came up with beautiful folk based songs as well. like “ni sultana re”
“kahe ko bulaya” , “goria kahan tera des re” etc… apart from his own songs pancham also asisted his dad for many rafi’s numbers, he also played instruments for l-p in early 60s.
10. now here is some dilemma for me, as there are so many contenders for this slot, let me equally divide this slot among chitragupt,kalyan ji bhai-anand ji bhai, usha khanna, sonik-omi, chitragupt, n dutta, s n tripathi ….
Ref: 901 of Murthy ji – Some corrections
Dear All,
I saw this program not today, but somewhere in last week or so. This program was on the life of Sri Sri Sri Ravishankar ji. While giving commentary, the lady compere said that his all time favourite song (not one of his fav1) is “Chahunga main tujhe saanjh savere”
Regards to all
Shirish Kulkarni
ref post 901:
mr. murty, what a great song! here’s rafi saab singing it live during the Filmfare awards ceremony with young laxmi & pyare conducting the orchestra:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5SPaSUpPr_8&feature=related
see how effortlessly the farishta’s voice reaches the skies (at 1:30). and here’s another young duo conducting “govinda ala re”:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CH0y7-2rUco&feature=related
And finally we have the greatest duo of all time, messrs shankar & jaikishan conducting “hum kale hai to kya hua dilwale hai”:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gm3nNncRVS4&feature=related
jai is in a dancing mood, but the real interesting part is where mehmood is forcing rafi saab to dance. Enjoy!
today i was informed by our close friend shirish kulkarni that while channel-surfing this morning, he came across sri sri sri (of the art of living fame) who informed that one of his favourite songs is from the film “dosti” – chahunga mein tujhe saanj savere, phir bhi kabhi ab naam ko tere. rafi sahab truly has pervaded all sections of our society.