True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
I would like to add:
If there is one person that Rafi should only be and can only be compared to, it is Rafi himself. The best and most sensible comparison is Rafi vs Rafi.
Rafi-saab had so many different dimensions to his singing, that one can compare these different dimensions to one another.
xxx sir,akash sir and singh sir and janab unknow sahib
i agree with you.there is no discernible feebleness in rafi’s early voice nor anything lacking in the quality of voice.But just as lata emerged in the shadow of noor jahan,rafi couldn’t make a full display of his vocal prowess when saigal and a little later talat were the singing stars.in chalti ka na gaari,an early fifties movie there is a revealing dialogue:agar madhur geet sunana ho to talat ko suno,sur mein sunana ho to manna de ko suno,etc.rafi was not mentioned.it took rafi some time to come into his own.it was not the voice but the confidence that was lacking,not perhaps in his own self but in the mds who were to utilise his voice.similar problem seems to have arisen in 70s.with mds preferring kishore all the way,rafi must have gone through a crisis.in his duets sung with kishore rafi seems to be playing a second fiddle only.the compositions were such that rafi couldn’t make a full display of his vocals.he was made to adjust to kishore because he could do that and kishore was not asked to adjust to rafi because kishore didn’t have the capability to meet rafi in his full range.among the male singers,only manna da had this capability and manna da has very generously acknowledged rafi’s superiority.just listen to old haqeeqat quartet ho ke majhboor mujhe usne bulaya hoga.rafi leads in the song with voices of talat,manna and bhupendra following him.there is only one duet sung by rafi and mahendra kapoor–ik chand asman mein hai ik meire pass hai.see how badly mahendra trails rafi.
akash and singh sirs,
i quote below para four from the article heading these comments:
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
So you see comparison has already been set up.i substantially agree with akashji’s line of argument.in the seventies,kishore was preferred to rafi by most of the mds for most of the films and his songs won filmfare awards year after year.obviously when rafi was still there and he was sidelined,the mds must have considered kishore comparatively better.now what the factors were has been debated threadbare on this forum and elsewhere and further debate will be only a rehash of old arguments.nevertheless,akash’s postulation is incontestable.since singh sahib makes more or less the same point,i concede it.
as i have said above the writer of the headpiece himself has set up a debate by calling lata to be the best of all,i just want to say that some rafi fans may not agree.i have the utmost regard for both lata and asha as singers par excellence possessing sweetest of voices that females of human species can have,i still believe that rafi has an edge.this edge is discernible in duets and parallel(tandem) songs.xxx says that in slow paced songs they perform equally well while rafi is better in fast paced high pitched songs.i beg to differ.rafi seems to me to put in more in his slow paced duets with lata.just for an example:listen to: teri dunya se door chale ho ke majboor zara yad rakhna. look at the pathos with which rafi articulates zara yad rakhna.similarly,door basa lein dil ki jannat.lata has some problem at bass level.i would like to be proved wrong.
with deference to akashji and all others,i am not suggesting a debate as such,probably a discussion of the comparative merits of the two greatest singers will help us refine our understanding of music further.we have perhaps developed a distate for the word debate after all the acrimony generated by kishore rafi controversy.if we can keep acrimony at bay and discuss lata rafi we will surely stand to benefit.
as for ghantasala,so many participants have said such good things about him that i hesitate to make any adverse comments.i have heard about a thousand songs of ghantasalaji after he was introduced in the debate and haven’t felt as enthusiastic about him as some of his admirers would like to persuade me to be.the only reason must be my complete ignorance of telugu.all the same,despite my complete incomprehension of malayalam i love to here jesudas.in telugu also even when not following a word i love to listen to p sushila,sometimes even more than lata.ghantasala’s shivshankari is technicaly excellent but that is all that i can say.i don’t find ghantasala’s voice that melodious,certainly nowhere in comparison with rafi.he has a sharp,throaty,rasping voice.may be that kind of voice suits the genius of telugu language.so my observations shouldn’t be taken to detract in any manner from as reputed a composer and singer as ghantasalaji.rafi himself held him in high respect.
unknowji, you are say you not hearing name of the bhimsen joshi shri.i am suggest you are improve your knowledge of music just as well that of english.you are then will be know the bhimsen joshi shri and also how great he am.he has singed an duet with manna days,you must have hearded mile sur meira tumhara.bhimsen opens it and lata closes it and anybody who has any ear for music will tell you that panditjis rendering is far superiour to lataji’s.it is not that pandit bhimsen joshiji is unknown,only you is unknow.
comparisons should be made in quantity, quality, vocal range, voice modulation, singing style – is it run of the mill variety and monotonous or both, longevity, voice character to suit many actors, the purity of the voice and the personality of the voice beholder, vocal reach to different generations of music lovers and music makers, etc. al………………
who scores ??? hands down ???,,,, your guessssss issss gooood as mine..
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai, binus2000@hotmail.com
Haldar-ji,
You mentioned recently that you heard (from sources) that L-P were going to give the songs of Bobby to Rafi-saab if SS had failed the screen test.
Well Amit Kumar mentioned in his latest Filmfare interview that L-P approached him for Bobby first but he (Amit) was scared to sing the songs.
Personally, I feel Amit Kumar doesn’t have a whole lot of talent, and I’m surprised L-P approached him in the first place. AK is known today only because of his father. You’ll be surprised how many KK fans think he’s a great singer, and that the industry “supposedly” ignored him. Talk about musical tastes.
SP Balasuramaniam’s latest take on Rafisaab- an extract from
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/n/i/top_stories/2771/
But he seemed more excited about his favourite singer, Mohammed Rafi. And sounded more sweeter when he paid tribute to Rafi with ‘Mere mehboob tujhe…’. “There won’t be any voice like that. I don’t know how I fell in love with his voice. My daughter has twins. Though the boy is named Anirudh, I call him Rafi…’’
I would like to add a bit to my last post in the line:
“Just compare their singing and repertoires and you will get your answer.”
It should read as:
“Just compare their singing, repertoires, voice, range, skills etc. and you will get your answer.”
Dhaniram-ji
There can be no comparison between Rafi and any playback singer, as Rafi is ahead of everyone and beyond comparison.
Just sample the various genres he has sung in, from one extreme there is the types of songs he sang for Shammi Kapoor along with western rock, pop, jazz etc., and at the other there is classical, bhajans and qawwali’s, with everything in between (i.e various other genres). Forget about India, is there any singer in this world who has accomplished that ?. Add to that his tonal quality, mammoth range, and ability to modulate so effectively for various actors. All that and more make him the greatest singer of all time. Moreover, Rafi is the benchmark in singing, most singers in India and abroad are compared to him, and most in the field of music consider him the greatest.
So having said that, Rafi is beyond comparison, there is no need to compare him to anyone, or mention linguistic differences, mainstream differences et all because Rafi is simply beyond all that. To compare anyone to Rafi is treading unnecessary water, and simply a waste of time (in my view). It’s not fair to put any singer up against a giant like Rafi, or to compare Rafi to anyone, because there is a vast and clear difference between ‘Saatwan Sur’ and the rest.
Akash-ji, can you please tell me how Kishore extended the base set by Rafi and suceeded Rafi ?. Kishore did not even accomplish half of what Rafi did, so how can you make such a statement ?. Just compare their singing and repertoires and you will get your answer. Kishore became popular for a while, and many associate that with matching Rafi and his high standards which is nonsense (in my view). Ofcourse even popularity wise, Rafi has no match.
Singh-ji, great to see you back on this forum contributing your interesting and knowledgeable views, please do continue.
XXX-ji, I woudn’t term Rafi’s voice as “feeble” early on, but maybe as “raw” in a good way. It definitely was as melodious as ever though.
Mr. Dhaniram – 1390
Fine, You say rafi and lata comparison alone is debatable. But how can that be – is it not male/female factor. Both are two different corners again. Males – rafi is great and females – lata is great – male and female voices also comparison is not possible.
OK agreed – ghantasala – rafi comparison should not have been made on linguistic and stream differences/ factors – I too agree with you (but I indeed felt happy on hearing Mr. Ghantasala’s great voice and his presentation/great skills – Personally i should thank ghantasala fans for this) But at least on technical basis, such comparison can be considered as both were great playback singers and the common field here being playback singing.
Anyhow my question is different – kishore and rafi comparison is indeed acceptable, as both belonged to the same field and same environment with almost common music directors – obviously when many say that rafi is the greatest ; naturally, the term greatest is derived only from comparison with other playback singers, preferably kishore who certainly successfully succeeded rafi ji even when rafi ji was there in the field. Personally, in my opinion the base established by the great rafi for hindi playback singing has been extended by kishore kumar and as such both are fine.
Dhaniram ji,
Rafi and lata are great singers. But I feel comparison cannot be made between both as it is a comparison between male and female again though linguistic factor is same. In males rafi is best and females lata is best in hindi. Male and female voices again if put up for comparison – I doubt how to compare. Only the technical presentation has to be compared.
P. Haldar Ji, Dhani Ram Ji, myk ji & Anil Cherian Ji:
The writer of this “True Voice” section has written that :”But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble”
how much do you all agree with this statement? imo, Rafi’s voice in early 50s was very melodious and as good as of Talat’s or Lata’s. from 1950-57 rafi,lata and talat had no peers in singing, these 3 singers had sung best of the best songs of 50’s, then from 1957 onwards, when rafi became regular in OP’s, sj’s and dada’s camp he overtook every one. what say?
Anilji and XXX
we have had a lot of futile debate on this site warding off attacks from kishoreans and ghantasalians.ghantasalaji was deliberately pitchforked into the debate to deflect heat from kishore.because of linguistic difference and stream difference,rafi ghantasala comparison makes no sense.it have been only some participants bullying tactics that have kept the totally unwarranted comparison between rafi and kishore alive for so long.otherwise it obvious to every discerning man that kishore stand absolutely nowhere.Aradhna was kishore’s flagship movie just as Humraj was mahendra kapoor’s and imo kapoor comes out much better performer than kishore.
i am all in favour of a debate on lata rafi.both have been well matched,with almost equal output of the highest quality in all genres of singing.i believe that rafi had an edge over lata.i know that it is debatable and it is the only debatable topic.a debate on this topic will enhance our understanding of hindi film music in particular and music in general.
xxx,
here’s an excerpt from one of the interviews that op gave to a film magazine:
Who are the composers he himself admires? OP refuses to answer this question unless I tell him what I think of him! That done, he mentions the greats from New Theatres – Timir Baran, RC Boral, Anil Biswas, Kamal Das Gupta, Kanan Devi and Saigal. He also lists Master Ghulam Haider and Khemchand Prakash, and among his contemporaries and juniors, likes the Burmans, Shanker-Jaikishan, C Ramachandra, Roshan and now Jatin-Lalit.
Mr.Haldar, Thanks for correcting me, since i haven’t heard much of Mullick so never knew this, although i have a good collection of saigal with me, anways, thanks for that anecdote as well.
Regarding OP’s infuences: I think his earlier music(Before aar paar) had the high influence of CR and ab(OP himself said this in some radio interview that he was a BIG “shehdai” of cr and ab), and why OP, Roshan and Madan Mohan also had their(CR & AB) infulences. Since MM assisted CR in his earlier days, so there was CR’s infuence in MM’ s music too. Later all of them created their own style, Roshan was first to did it, and later in 60s when he associated with Rafi sahab, together they gave many of the best solos and duets of that decade
1.Mann re tu kahe na dheer dhare
2.Sapne jhade phool se
3.Jo vaada kiya wo nibhana padega(with Lata)
4.aapne yaad dilaya to mujhe yaad aaya(with Lata)– sublimity at its best
Unknow ji –
Continuation to my previous message – A detailed article was written on pt. bhimsen joshi in the Eenadu telugu newspaper on the occasion of his being selected for bharat ratna award. I had read it. It is hearterning to say that pandit bhimsen joshi had a lot of struggles in his life – despite such odd things and difficult struggles he rose to an enviable hindusthani classical exponent. If you read about his struggles, it will be difficult to digest. Really, we have to know there are many great people who underwent many difficult struggles to achieve a unique position in life. Do you know Ghantasala too did not even have food to eat and fast on some days when he was in his teenage
Many of us generally debate a lot on the successes of these greats, but there is other part of life as well – from what circumstances they have risen to such enviable levels etc. What do you say Mr. Unknow ji.
Singh ji – 1383-85
I am aware jhanda ooncha rahe hamara is a film in Hindi. But I did not hear any songs from this film. Perhaps anybody could provide link to the songs. I am unable to find them in website. Great to note that rafi saab has sung also under the music direction of Sri Ghantasala. Regarding your mention of ghantasala songs in Hindi – jhanda ooncha rahe hamara, I am not aware but the others are sanskrit slokas – wherein ghantasala was adept – no doubt about it, that is why sri ghantasala was used in Hindi in one of his most admired specialised area – the sanskrit slokas. The suvarna sundari sloka is the original telugu suvarna sundari one.
Unknow ji – post 1382
Pandit Bhimsen joshi is a exemplified hindusthani classical musician. He is one of the renowned classical vocalists in the hindusthani classical tradition. He has to his contribution many performances in hindusthani classical music for more than 60 long years and is a musical genius in the hindusthani classical field – more or less similar to the great balamuralikrishna in the south – the carnatic classical legend. Of course, balamuralikrishna is yet to be conferred bharat ratna (he has got all other awards) –
But over the years I have seen, the south greats are ignored compared to north greats in terms of awards and recognition – politics (Last year p suseela got padmabhushan directly – she did not even have padmasri earlier for her musical contribution of more than 50 years as playback singer) Lata and rafi were duly recognised in 60’s with padmasri – similar were ghantasala and suseela in the south in 50-60’s – but only ghantasala got due recognition i.e. the padmasri in 60’s (when padmavibhushan, the highest civilian award was recommended for him – again politics) and suseela, nothing – she only got last year. Even Balamuralikrishna, as I was stating got delayed awards – perhaps/maybe he could be in the line for the next bharat ratna (as pandit bhimsen joshi has now got it) _ of course again subject to so called ………politics.
Contd:
Rafi ji has sung following songs in Jhanda ooncha rahe hamara film in hindi under the music direction of Sri Ghantasala
1. parvat dera pyaar bhara
2. bhudha ki pukaar sun
Another song jhanda ooncha rahe hamara in the film is sung by ghantasala himself.
The above rafi sahab songs also I have not heard – Hope any rafi fan could enlighten on this.
Another point:
Khandaan film (actor sunil dutt) – Yada Yada hi darmasya – Bhagavad geeta sloka by ghantasala in Hindi.
Rafi Lovers
Indeed it is a great pleasure to back after a long time. This site is the only site with the maximum number of messages on the great rafi sahab and it is indeed pleasurable to see the going continuing. It is surprising to note when i glean through previous messages, many songs which have been posted in youtube are being automatically deleted : the reasons are not known : in fact they are directly deleted from youtube site itself, thereby rendering inactive the songs posted in this site. New comers to this site, and viewing past messages may not have access to such songs in such cases and this is really unfortunate.
Contributions from many of our friends MYK, Venkatadri, and others are really missing in this site for time being. Really vast informative messages have been posted from such rafi ji fans.
A research point specially for ghantasala fans (and interested rafi fans too)
Many a times people were asking whether ghantasala had sung in hindi – Here is the information collected from a hamara forum website of ghantasala on this issue.
Ghantasala was the music director for four hindi films:
1. PAATAAL BHAIRAVI (1952)
2. JHANDAA OONCHAA RAHE HAMAARAA (1964)
3. PAANDAV BANVAAS (1973)
4. LUV KUSH (1974) ( The telugu version is simply great – ran for 365 days – ghantasala had innumerable incomparable songs and padyams – In hindi there are no male songs or padyams – only female songs of telugu singers are there – the film is dubbed in hindi – reason not known why male songs in hindi have not been kept in the film)
Ghantasala sang following 3 songs in hindi films:
1. LAKSHMEEM KSHEER SAMUDRARAAJ TANYAAM SHRI RANG (SUWARNA SUNDARI) (1958) (MD–ADI NAARAAYAN RAO)
2. JHANDAA OONCHAA (JHANDAA OONCHAA RAHE HAMAARAA) (1964) (MD–GHANTASALA+GANDHARVA)
3. NAMOH BRAHAMANYA DEVAAYE (PAANDAV BANVAAS) (1973) (MD–GHANTASALA+RAAGHAVULU)
the 1 & 3 are sanskrit slokas – the 2nd one is a hindi filmy song (Of course I have not heard this).
Can any rafi fan throw some light on these hindi numbers by ghantasala. (only for information pl.)
I want to know about Pandit bhimsen joshi who is he and what he did for Indians.
can any one help me to get more about him I think he should be great.
About Bharat Ranta I think this award is not Made for Gandhi, Mohd Rafi and Sachin because these people are not great only for Indians but for all over the world
dear xxx,
sometime back you had said that the inspiration for op’s clip-clop ghoda-gaadi beat was naushad. That’s not quite true. Here’s where op got his inspiration from:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMJgwG8UBCU
The audio quality of this clip is rather poor, but you’ll get the idea. The actor you see in this clip was one of the most famous singing actors of his time; not only that, he was also a great composer. He was a very close friend and mentor of Saigal saab. He was idolised by a very well-known playback singer, who used to be a colleague of rafi saab’s.
Both Naushad and OP had a lot of admiration for the musical giants of New Theatres, which included Pankaj Mallick, R. C. Boral, Timir Baran and K. C. Dey. It’s sad but it’s true that Naushad alone knew more about these personalities than the present generation of Bengalis combined. you must have read the “smart” comments of a person from outer space who thinks Kishore is better than Rafi in classical songs (since then, I’ve started taking anti-depressant pills).
I want to share an interesting anecdote about Naushad with you. Once Jaganmoy Mitra, a famous singer from Bengal who was known as Jagmohan in Bombay circles, had gone to visit Naushad. Do you know who Naushad inquired about? Kamal Dasgupta. Now, you may not know who he is but he was a famous composer of his time; he was married to the famous Nazrul geeti singer Feroza Begum. Twenty two years ago, I had the privilege of hearing her sing Talat’s famous Bengali hit “duti paakhi duti teere maajhe nodi boi dheere” composed by her husband. Kamal Dasgupta’s brother is the sarodiya Pt. Buddhadeb Dasgupta.
Now that’s Naushad for you.
Dhaniram sir and XXXji:
When I listen to Rafi-Lata duets I go into a trance, who sings better doesn’t come into picture at all. Personally speaking, if I were asked to define ‘perfection’, I would cite Rafi-Lata duets as an example.
By the way, isn’t it amazing how beautifully Rafisahab’s voice gels with all his co-singers.., Lataji, Ashaji, Geetaji and even the younger singers like Sulakshana Pandit and Anuradha Paudwal, not to mention male singers like Talat saab, Mannada, Mukeshji and off course Kishoreda.
Ref to p 1372:
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if someone wants to know why rafi is simply the best,let him listen to: yaad mein teri jaag jaag ke hum,raat bhar karwatein badalte hain.decide for yourself who sings this songs better,lata or rafi.
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I love this song very much, beautiful composition by Naushad Sahab, But in my humble opinion, Lata here is as good as Rafi. It’s a sad song and a gazal type song and i think Rafi and Lata were equally good in this genre.
However, in the duets like “Dil tera deewana hai sanam” or “Chadti jawani meri chal mastani” i find Rafi better. imo, in slow “thehrav” type of songs, both of them were equally good, but in fast rhythmic music(i.e. quawallis, rock n rolls,rhythmic songs, fun songs etc etc) Rafi sahab was better.Naushad Sahab used to give slow, soothing, melancholic divine music, so i enjoy both Rafi Sahab and Lata ji equally under Naushad’s baton.
Baiju Bawra is a perfect example of naushad’s great use of Rafi and Lata.
rafi songs were best and popular ones from the album but lata songs(specially 2 lata solos: Bachpan ki mohabbat, mohe bhool gaye) and rafi-Lata duets were equally good.
A great site for all rafi sahab lovers, I am a newcomer to this site of my favourite rafi ji. This site is unique in itself as it provides great information to the great legend rafi sahab – the bollywood melody playback legend.
Mr. Anil,
Yes, rafi ji was a gem to the Bollywood playback world of singing. There cannot be another rafi in bollywood and there cannot be also such tremendous influence in the days to come. Kishore kumar lovers cannot place kishore ji on par with rafi, it is simply not possible. Rafi ji is certainly superior to kishore.
Swamy ji,
Good messages from you. I fully agree with you, only the difference is people born below the vindhyas, as the orginal article writer (swaminathan iyer) says, are less famous, let how much talented and gifted they be. You are correct – Unique and divine -there cannot be (& will not be ) another ghantasala. Had he been born above the vindhyas, his fame would have tripled.
Bose ji and khan ji,
You have done excellent analysis of songs of all great singers : I was fascinated by your analysis – specially your analysis of ghantasala numbers.
Dhaniram sir:
I can’t find the Rafi-Lata duet you’ve mentioned. Instead I’m posting links to a few other gems from this great duo:
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=dmddEDxEeqE
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs5ZMJRo8aY
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=82randxc1sw
http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=9jFmYT8PtOs
Vintage stuff, all. Hope everyone like these.
vivekji
we bow to panditji.he has deservedly won the award.his contribution to hindustani classical music is tremendous.therefore we welcome this decision of the government.
but we are sad that the government has not yet rectified its blunder in not awarding bharat ratan to rafi sahib.this lapse on the part of the government takes much of the sheen off the award.
Binu sahab,
Pandit bhimsen joshi has been selected for Bharat ratna this year. Hindusthani music gets due recognition.
no doubt rafi is best.as far notes are concern after listning “o duniya ke rakhwale” “dono ne kya tha pyar mager” “gam uthane ke liye jiye jaunga” “patther ke sanam” and so many others u can eassily say no one is near to rafi.and as a versitile singer i dont have to talk about any song of him just listen his any of 10 sang and u will eassily know his capibility,some time i listen in duets that even lata mangesker was not eassily singing compear to rafi.it is said by mannadey that we singer fight always for 2 possition because 1 one is always helded by rafi ji.such duets whear rafi and kisore was singing u can just find out what is diffrence even kisore had a more strenth voice but rafi was not only melodious but also strenth as well trumendious classical ground.no doubt he is best forever.
DIL KA SUNA SAAJ TARANA DHOONDHEGA
MUJHKO MERE BAD ZAMANA DHOONDHEGA’
RAFI SAHEB is non compareable singer, his voice quality is unique ,nobody can copy nither sonu nigam nor any. he is exceptional singer,he is only one singer who can sing each & every type of song(like classical, semi classical, mini classical,light ,rock , bhangra, nath, bhazan, gazal e.t.c),he is only singer who can hit the film through his singing…..hathi mere sathi….is best example for it….., if any person praise of rafi saheb singing he can’t be success because he has no sufficient word for it, if some body raise his fingure against the rafi sahb singing or compare to any singer like sonu nigam is equal to rafi..he is complete mad person, because he is BADSHAH OF SINGING,EMPEROR OF SINGING,SANGIT SAMRAT,
REGARDS (TABREJ RAFI)
if someone wants to know why rafi is simply the best,let him listen to: yaad mein teri jaag jaag ke hum,raat bhar karwatein badalte hain.decide for yourself who sings this songs better,lata or rafi.
meanwhile,for those who question rafi’s credentials in songs based on classical ragas,kailash kher has something to say.His five favourite singers are (in the order given here ) : lata,rafi,kumar gandharv,amir khan and nusrat fateh ali.there is no mention of kishore.moreover,look at the company here.all others except lata are classical singers.lata and rafi are at the top.in my long innings as a lover of music,whenever some musical celebrity has talked about his preferences,rafi has topped the chart with an exception here and there.and the exception also emanates from western style rock or rap.
the other day someone who knows classical music like his right hand was saying that knowing his capabilities,music directors always added classical touches (harkatein ) to the songs to be sung by rafi.they hardly ever did that in kishore’s case.
Hi friends:
Found this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usi6sJrGszE
Rafisahab does a good job at this semi-classical score and watch out for that monster ‘na’ at 0.10-0.12. May be some people would think twice before writing stuffs like “Rafisahab couldn’t sing semi-classsicals” and “Rafisahab wasn’t good at low octave” here again.
anilji
there are many many gems of rafi sahib which gen x will never hear.decades ago i used to hear a pure gem– a duet by rafi and lata– which hasn’t been heard again. i can bet that some rafi fans have also not heard it.the song is :
bheegi palkein utha meiri jaan gham na kar/ din jadai ke yeh bhi nikal jaayen ge
hear it if it is available on internet and let us know your views.
Chanced upon this gem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk7zr9tvA9E.
What amazing control at those super-high notes (sung in true voice). It’s shouting? Someone must be kidding!
Another superb song from the master:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jmC8oNdhFM
What pathos in the voice; can this song be bettered in any way?
And another beauty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CziUr3aVRh0
The voice is romantic (and a trifle naughty) here.
Great musicians such as Mahendra kapoor,talat mehmood,yesudas are
treating rafi saab as their “guru” and we people who are zero as far as
the music and knowledge in the history of hindi film world are “struggling”
to project some singers as number one.it is shame for a singer to hesitate
to sing some songs since he did not have the ability to sing and want to
project as number one singer.a singer singing 2 types of songs is far behind
than a singer who is singing 7 types of songs.that means if rafi saab is number
one kishore kumar is no.7
there is an interesting thing happened.lataji,mannadey,asha bonsley,talat
mehmood,kishore kumar and hemalatha sung songs in malayalam language
and except kishore kumar all songs of the remaining singers become superhits.
I think nobody knows kishore kumar sung a song in malayalam language.
the film name is “ayodhya” and the hero was prem nazir.
Sudipji:
Yes, Rafisahab is superb in ‘dheere chal zaraa..’ it’s a throw back on his ’60s songs under MM, SDB, Khayyam et al. So is the song ‘kahin ek masoom….’. Who composed ‘Hum paanch’ songs, by the way? LP?
Binu sir:
I believe the MD is Usha Khannaji.. the film also contains that beautiful Yesudas song- ‘Madhuban khushboo…’ (picturised, interestingly, on Rajendra Kumar)
‘woh kya hai…’ is a personal favourite and here’s the link (not too good in terms of visual and audio quality):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ4q0pcKqyU
The song is pretty much LP-ish (though composed by SDB).
Incidently ‘Anurag’ was remade in Malayalam and here’s the link to the song picturised in similar situations:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCyFKwLg7kw.
Nice pyrotechnics (with ‘swaras’) by the one and only Salilda and good show by our own Rafi (KJY) and Asha (S Janaki).
Mr. unknow – 1360
Your name is confusing – you do not know anything. I will tell you where kishore was from 48-70 , very much in bollywood. Only his good time had come from 70 as per his kundli, like rafi had his good time as per his kundli earlier. It is afterall the kundli factor, which decided the individuals destiny, not the talent and effort. You will also become famous if you have good time as per you kundli. ok
unknow if you are reading this, please say rafi saaheb sang……………. and not “singed”. i will appreciate. and i commend you for being a very very big fans of mohd rafi saaheb.
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post 1362 : anil ji, i heard the songs. they are good. by the way who is the composer for the song “kaise jeet lete hai log dil kisi ka” and also the lyricists.
actor vinod mehra used rafi’s voice maximum for his songs and the duo has many many hits to their credits. the s.d.b. song a duet : “Woh kya hai, ek mandir hai, is one of them.”
binu nair
Anil:
Months before his death he sang this which to me, was close to his very best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsZ6MZFMCGc
Mr.Kapil ji…..Post 1358…. Indian playback singers like talat mahmud, hemant da, manna dey, saighal saaheb all gave us musical varieties apart from rafi and talat – who lead from the front with their massive talents and huge playback efforts which can be counted by sheer magical numbers.
I personally love some of kishore Kumar numbers, only some and they are very well sung. Kishore being a man of many occupations, skills and moods could never do full justice to many songs. one could easily notice the hoarse voice sans emotions in these songs. and when we talk of moods, focus, god given talents, voice modulation, throw of words in to the microphone, no one could possibly beat mohd rafi in the art of playback singing. lata only can come very close to mohd rafi saaheb.
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai
Hi Friends:
Here is a late ’70s song which was pretty un-late ’70s like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aue81PqKveE
Rafisahab sounds close to his best (IMO) even at 53-54.
Here’s another one (again from the late ’70s) where he sounds youthful (for the young hero):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH22kI_SgHk
And here’s a ‘prophecy’ from the ‘farishta’:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C84t4PYNb0Q
Sorry for mistake Mohd Rafi singed 360 plus songs in 1960 and KK singed from 1948 to 1969 only 378 songs,also from 1970 to 1980 Mohd rafi singed more than KK that is history,Mohd Rafi only singed 8 months in 1980 and in 1980 he singed more songs than any other singer also that is history.
KK and Mohd rafi start singing same time KK singed 2000 plus and Mohd Rafi 4000 Plus,Mohd Rafi singed for none flims but KK never singed in Hindi for none films
KK singed from 1948 t0 1969 around 378 songs and Mohd Rafi singed only in year 1960 around 260 songs plus,as KK fans that KK was at the TOP in 1970 jest I want to ask KK fans where was KK from 1948 to 1970 22 years.your answre is he was busy,!!!!!!!!!????!!!!!!!!!!!
Mohd Rafi was indeed the True voice and the only complete singer of our HFM…
Mohd Rafi followed by Talat Mehmood, Lata, Hemant Kumar were closest to divinity—Mukesh wasn’t that much melodious but could emote extremely well, Manna was was excellent too —– Kishore Kumar was great while rendering his kind of songs(fun loving, comic) else he comes far way behind when compared to above ones —- Kishore’s absence from great tunes of 50s and 60s itself shows void in his singing.
God made one Sun and One Mohd rafi
post 1354/1355
Well said Binu Nair…. Atleast the infidels like the hmv fan should not come to this site and spoil our party of Rafi gharana…
All veterans Haldarda,MYK sir XXX sir, Anil sir, Sanjay Arora sab, Manish sir should further enlighten us on the magic of the emperor of playback singing Rafi sahab who is the only true voice….
post1353 : the whole world knows about the “godly” voice of mohd rafi and his contributions to the hindi film music and to the society.
a few disgruntled men can never change history and let this message go very clearly and strongly to those who are trying to plant their own mischievious theories in this article titled ” true voice “.
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai
since kishore kumar is being brought in , music lovers ought to know some recording room facts. before a kishore kumar recording there used to be lot of laughter in the recording room with kishore ji playing his various fun acts. then his secretary used to arrive and tea also would come. if the sec. finishes his tea then its understood that the producer has paid the full fees of the singer. if the sec. finishes, half a cup then it meant that only half the payment has come. kishore would rarely sing if the tea in the cup was full.
for mohd rafi saaheb there was no question of tea pranks. his tea (full of aroma) would come from his house in a flask. rafi would first on entry tip the liftman then greet the musicians with folded hands and then go to his room for the song rehearsals.
op nayyar was a strict disciplinarian. he would lock the doors at 9.00 a.m. on a recording day. no late coming. the musicians had to be paid their fees immediately after the recording. before a recording he would actually check if the producer has brought the cash for payments to his musicians.
to day, nothing such things happen . a singer can sing in mumbai few words, he can courier it to chennai to the composer and the composer will do the cut and paste job and present the song. he charges the sky for this cut and paste job.
all of you will agree with me – that the song has lost it’s soul and thus its shelf life.
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai… binus2000@hotmail.com
ref to p 1346:
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rafi’s voice is god given says kaushik bhai, it had the correct range, scales and modulation which no singer had. with rafi we had very little to do unlike other singers including lata bai, asha bai. minoo karthik seconds this opinion .
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I am delighted to know this … Hats off to ace sound recordist Kaushik for his honest comments…
I don’t think that even in the dream some one will compare Mohd Rafi with any singer. The only think you can dream it that your singing with Mohd rafi not better singer than him…
Dear SANJAY ARORA Please don’t ask him to answer because they have no answer,I will answer you,
Q1 ) WHERE WAS KK FROM 1950-1972?
Ans:KK was busy as actor?
Q ) IF HE WAS SUCH A COMPLETE SINGER WHY NONE OF THE GREATEST MDS FELT LIKE GIVING HIM SOME SONGS ( ALTHOUGH HE HAD RECORDED SONGS WITH THE MDS WHERE HE WAS THE HERO IN THE FILMS )
Ans:Naushand was not great as Anil Biswas,Anil Biswas don’t Like Mohd Rafi but Mohd Rafi singed for him around 12 songs but KK singed only for two films 6 songs!!!!!
KK made Mr Bachchan superstar and Rajesh Khanna like KK more than Mohd rafi!!!!!!
Dear SANJAY ARORA please don’t ask KK fans to answer jest pray for them to be honest music lover………….
Hi Friends:
Here’s one (out of many) song where Rafisahab simply glides thru registers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99gkV3-GWiY
Here’s one where he depicts the feeling ‘unrequited love’ brilliantly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy6DuXfZ1s0
What a ‘kuch aur baat….’ at 3.56.
And a personal favourite of yours truly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUv-mel33d4