True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
Mohan – good post.
The greatness achieved by rafi in hindi and ghantasala in telugu is unsurpassable
yes, the lata and ghantasala duet, the song was purely composed in the hindusthani raga, as can be seen from the commentary there
at 3:30 for lata mangeshkar in the first song and 4: 30 for ghantasala in the 2nd song, there is a high pitch note suddenly touched – a mind blowing composition by music director susarla dakshina murthy. The song was individually sung by both and mixed in the film as a duet (for the 2nd song in which lata’s rendition is simply pasted from her solo song of the same rendition) Lata did justice as best as could be possible for her in the telugu song.
This 2nd song, i suppose, is not available in youtube.
Your comment of maestro illayaraja, i will clarify a bit. A tamil producer asked illayaraja to ensure and guarantee that all the songs in the film he is going to compose (for that producer) would be definite hit, for which illayaraja replied – such a feat is possible only for ghantasala and none else. Illayaraja further stated that only ghantasala could give such a guarantee.
Anyhow, such genre of talent, both in hindi and telugu, will not be seen again.
The greatness achieved by rafi in hindi and ghantasala in telugu is unsurpassable.
2095 – Binu Nair ji,
Yes, I heard that one of the fans even fainted on hearing rafi’s demise. The industry was confused on thought that who could be replacement (as haldar ji says) – but there has been no replacement and will never be for the melodious singer. Kishore kumar was grief stricken, perhaps he was the only man who could understand the irreparable loss that had taken in the hindi film world.
In my knowledge, such great concern/another equal instance can be cited for the reputed music director T chalapati rao of the telugu field, who fainted at least 4 times on the day on which ghantasala passed away. The great cine poet of the telugu industry Acharya Aatreya made only one comment : There is no voice for my songs henceforth.
Haldar ji,
Mahendra kapoor voice was good in late 80’s as well. The title songs and the dohas in Mahabharat serial in early 90’s, were nice renderings, but somehow due to kishore’s fame in 70’s, mahendra could not come up despite having that sincere voice command. Mahendra is a nice singer compared to many of today’s singers. Kishore had a little punch over mahendra, perhaps that might be the reason why kishore was preferred over mahendra.
Great to see this discussion thread by the music lovers. I want to share with you this pathos song sung by Lata and Ghantasala for a telugu film Santhanam(1955). Second ‘charanam’ is the one to pay attention to. Very few singers can sing that frequency with ease.
Lata’s solo version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvl6i2uAuL0
Lata Ghantasala duet (most part by Ghantasala)
http://www.ghantasala.info/allsongs/index.html
song number 062/001.
Another fact about song ‘kuhu kuhu bole koyaliya’ – Lata requested Ghantasala to sing with her in Hindi, but Ghantasala refused out of respect for Rafi. Shows what respect they had for each other.
Ghantasala was no mere singer, he was a great music director too. He was the torch-bearer of telugu playback singing. Other telugu singers just followed his footsteps. The maestro Ilayaraja rightly said that if anyone can ensure that all songs in a film will be a hit, that is Ghantasala. It is a bit difficult for non-telugus to appreciate his greatness as this needs understanding of language and culture. All said, art is subjective, and there is no one best artisit. All the singers talked about here are great. They enriched our lives with their music. My salutations to all. May we see another genre of such talent again.
post 2092:
Dear anil ji:
Like you, I’d have taken spb for the “love in tokyo” song without batting an eyelid. As far as mk is concerned, I’m not sure what happened to him in the 80s (I didn’t follow that period closely). But I was really surprised that producers and md’s went for shabbir kumar and mohd aziz instead of rafi saab’s real chela. Mahendra Kapoor was a class singer, much better than any of the clones. But sometime in the 60s, his voice started changing. I never found the heavy bass in his voice attractive, though there are a lot of people who like that voice at high pitch. Among the singers with heavy bass, hemant’s voice stands out for me. I haven’t come across a single singer in hfm who maintains such sweetness at that level of bass. Kishore also had a very sweet bass, but as his voice became heavier (in the 80s), it lost some of its intrinsic sweetness. But sweetness is not what you look for in angry young men. So if you want to rely on bass for the angry young man, my choice would be kishore over mk.
THE DAY THAT SHOOK THE MUSIC WORLD…JULY 31…1980., 10.38 P.M. THE END CAME.
COMPOSERS WERE BITTERLY CRYING. SAID CHITRAGUPTA : Hum Anaath Ho Gaye Hai. Echoed Ravi Saab: Ab kis ke liye hum geet banayenge? Kishore Kumar – first to arrive at 7 a.m. was bitterly crying at Rafi Mansion. Actress Raakhee too reached well early being uncontrollable. Rafi Lover Santhosh Kore fainted near Rafi’s body. The crowd was stopped for some time atleast.
EARLIER IN THE DAY THE TITAN OF HINDI FILM MUSIC WAS WHEELED IN AT THE THIRD FLOOR CARDIAC UNIT OF BOMBAY HOSPITAL. IT’s MOHD RAFI, the Nurse had told the young Namita.
ONE COULD SEE RAFI SAAB COVERED WITH LOT OF WIRES SAID NAMITA a 11 year old girl who herself was to undergo a heart surgery on aug 1 morning and was being readied for the operation.
On the MORNING of her own operation, she looked out of the balcony window and saw lots of people standing below. “Mohd Rafi Has Gone” said the same Nurse to pre operative heart patient Namita .
SHE LIVED TO TELL THE STORY TO ME FEW MONTHS BACK. GOOD NEWS IS THAT SHE IS HALE AND HEARTY AND IS A MOHD RAFI LOVER.
MORE ANECDOTES FROM RAFI LOVERS AND FRIENDS – LATER.
MUSIC LOVERS HAVE NOT FULLY RECOVERED FROM THE SHOCK OF JULY 31 1980.
it was the day that SHOOK THE MUSIC WORLD.
Stop comparing Rafi Saab with regional singers.
Haldar sir,
I’d definitely go for SPB to sing ‘love in tokyo….’ if I don’t have Rafi sahab with me.
May I request you to analyse why Mahendra Kapoor completely lost out in the ’70s. With all those revenge-seeking angry men heroes around, his bassy voice would have been an asset, right?
August 1, 1980
The film industry is shut down, in tribute to a man on whose shoulders it rested for three decades. Laxmikant is in a state of shock, remarking, “For whom am I going to compose music?” Producers like Manmohan Desai and Nasir Husain are totally heartbroken. Ordinary fans like us go into mourning, lasting for a few months. I remember being sent to Bombay on a business trip during Navratri and spending most of my time walking aimlessly on the streets of Bandra. But the industry has to move on. It has to replace him on the scores of songs that he has already signed. The question on every producer and md’s lips is: “Who will take over from him?”
Hundreds of singers from all over the country — from Khilenmarg to Kanyakumari, from Chandigarh to Cochin, from Vadodara to Varanasi — either copy him or sing in his style. Who will make it? Well, it is natural to expect that his own shishya, the great Mahendra Kapoor, would be the ideal choice. He has the backing of the Chopra brothers and md’s like Ravi and Kalyanji-Anandji. But by now, MK’s voice has developed a deep bass and has lost a lot of its charm. Also, he is beginning to be viewed exclusively as Mr. Bharat Kumar’s voice.
Then there is Anwar, whose “kasme hum apne jaan ke” has fooled many a fan, but not me. Even in his prime, Mahendra Kapoor could not fool me. There are many singers who consider themselves to belong to his school of singing: Shailendra Singh, Udit Narayan and someone who is closer to home, a zabardast fan of his. Not only is he well-trained, he also has the backing of the two sisters.
Or is it going to be one of the two southern greats? Yesudas or SPB?
The answer comes as a shock to many of us. Two clones, both stage performers — one from Baroda and the other from Calcutta — make the initial breakthroughs. Another aspiring singer from Bihar/Nepal who sings in his style gets his first major break through Nasir Husain, who also introduces a new md duo whose family allegiance to the master is well known.
Kishore who was sharing the number 1 spot with him till July end, remains at no. 1 till he breathes his last. For the first time in his life, he does not face any real competition. Strange are the ways in which the industry operates!
Haldar ji,
Nice post.
“but those of us who follow hindi film music, know someone whose political skills are second to none. And even this person couldn’t touch Rafi saab”
Honestly, I could not catch the person you were referring to. Yes that is not so easy, because rafi saab was so talented that his position was a star, and even persons accomplished in political skills cannot touch such legends, rafi was like the ghantasala of the telugu, before whom too no amount politics or tricks worked.
Murthyji,
I think I clarified who criticise KJY and why… It’s not the big names like Dr. BMK; actually many of the biggies (of KCM) like KJY and acknowledges his greatness. The criticism comes from the lesser known and mostly ‘writing only’ (and not performing) musicians. As I have mentioned before, many of these critics don’t find fault with SPB. Their logic is rather twisted, in some ways it’s similar to the logic applied by our musician friends in the ‘other’ site.
If you want us to believe that some of the ‘learned’ (but unknown) musicians can be a better judge of singers than SPB, then it’s hard-sell. There are very few people who’ve been born with a better ‘musical ear’ than SPB. The way he interprets a song, ustaads and pandits can’t and all the training in the world won’t help someone to analyse songs and singers the way SPB (or Kishoreda for that matter) does.
FRIENDS / DOSTON : one POINT, IS THAT : LIKING MOHD RAFI IS NOT POTITICS AT ALL; BUT NOT liking him amounts to politics or POLITICKING – which has been going around and will go around.
as about SPB, I am AWARE THAT HIS DRAWING ROOM HAS A MAMMOTH PICTURE OF LEGEND MOHD RAFI SAAHEB.
ANOTHER LEGEND YESUDAS HAS RAFIS PICTURES IN VANTAGE POSITIONS AT HIS MANY HOUSES.
THIS IS JUST PURE LOVE AND AFFECTION FOR THE LEGEND OF LEGENDS MOHD RAFI SAAHEB.
post 2084:
Murthy ji,
Honestly, I don’t know much about SPB the politician. But there’s politics in every field and please don’t for a minute believe that there wasn’t politics in hindi film music. You may consider SPB to be a great politician, but those of us who follow hindi film music, know someone whose political skills are second to none. And even this person couldn’t touch Rafi saab.
Among the male playback singers in hindi film music, though, there was a lot of bonhomie. All of them — manna, talat, mukesh, hemant, rafi and kishore — were genuinely good souls and though they had their own personal likes and dislikes, none of them ever played politics to put another singer down. That is very unusual in such a competitive field.
Politics aside, let me ask you a question on a song picturised on Joy Mukherjee, the son of Shasadhar Mukherjee, the titan of Filmistan and a great fan and patron of Rafi saab. Incidentally, when Shahrukh Khan laughs at Shashadhar Mukherjee’s granddaughther when she hums a few lines in “My Name is Khan”, the latter turns and asks, “Tum Mohammed Rafi ho kya?” Another girl from the same clan, who is also a famous film star, is the daughter of someone who used to tour the world with Rafi saab and sing on stage with him. I don’t want to bore you with all these tidbits but when we have people like Pandit Bose and that journalist fraud spreading lies, it is our obligation to give some historical perspective from time to time.
The song I have in mind was delivered by a mimic in four different voices — rafi, hemant, talat and mukesh — at an RD concert in Dubai, most probably in the late 80s. He chose not to sing it in Kishore’s voice, perhaps because he didn’t want to incur Pancham’s wrath, who was on stage. If you were present, you would have jumped out of you seat in laughter, so authentic was the way he brought out the singers’ contrasting styles.
The song in question is “Le gayi dil gudiya Japan ki”, not a song that purists would appreciate, but nonetheless a major hit of those times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNxPGHJr9vk
Honestly, if you were in SJ’s shoes and if rafi saab was not around, whom would you call as a replacement? Maybe Kishore da but more likely … ?
Haldar ji
I agree fully with you excellent summing up on the greatness of each of the singers in your post2081.
I had tried to put in perspective the mutual admiration each singer had for others only to convey a message to our learned “ustads” and “pandits” that there no need to put down Rafi and other singers in order to show someone else as superior!!
I like listening to all the singers that I had mentioned in my post, but of course Rafi has that special place which no one can replace.
I would simply sum it up like this–there are few songs of each singer that I would keep listening now and then, but Rafi is permanent–I can go on listening to him for hours, days, years….that is the speciality of Rafi sahab.
I am sure this is the same with all Rafi lovers like me, you and many other crores and crores of people.
Haldar ji
Rafi was admired as the best by all hindi singers, even SPB and KJY have good praise for rafi. But SPB declares ghantasaala as also the best, in many of his speeches, of late this has increased in many tv programmes recently.
contd… haldar ji,
You will be surprised to note that SPB was so capable at politics that he was born as a hindi man, even rafi would have lost the battle, you can just imagine the facts.
Haldar ji,
“putting down manna, yesudas, spb and anyone else who dares to consider rafi the best. These so-called experts (pandit bose, ustad khan, …) know more about music than all these accomplished singers! What a joke!”
Both SPB and KJY have received criticism from accomplished classical musicians about their music knowledge and skills. ( No offense meant to the singers please). SPB was straightly criticised by none other than the greatest stalwart balamuralikrishna himself, and as Anil Cherian ji, puts it even KJY has received criticism from none other than classical musicians themselves. So I think your so called above point on musical knowledge vs. spb etc. needs a review. SPB himself claims he is not much trained in music ( I personally know this through a friend of mine, for musical technicalities, in many cases, he depends upon music directors and classical musicians) – Liking for rafi is somewhat diffferent from the musical knowledge and technical perfection – two diffferent corners altogether. And the singers you have mentioned, have praised rafi sahab as a singer (it is only a liking) but never ventured into any views on musical or technical attributes. KJY is a well trained musician, so I am surprised at Anil Cherian’s comments. Not only in hindi, KJY was not successful in telugu industry as well. This has nothing to do with his voice or musical knowledge. But when it comes to SPB, there are certainly many issues, which I really do not want to discuss and if discussed certainly there will be very unpleasant issues. SPB established himself as a singer on purely playing bitter politics and there are many many unpleasant facts on this and I do not want to discuss much on that.
HALDAR JI : RIGHTLY SAID.( POST 2081…)…
THERE IS NO COMPOSER DURING RAFI INNINGS WHO DID’nt GIVE SONGS TO RAFI SAAHEB. THIS IS THE true WORTH OF MOHD RAFI. EVEN his detractors (few) in the fifties had to take Rafi Saab.
I RECALL AN INCIDENT AT SHANMUKHANANDA IN MUMBAI . RAFI SAAHEB WAS IN THE MIDST OF A CONCERT. YESUDAS JI WALKED UP TO THE STAGE AND TOUCHED RAFI SAABS FEET AND SAID., “WHATEVER I HAVE ACHIEVED IS BY SINGING RAFI SONGS FROM MY CHILDHOOD”.
YESUDAS ADDED THAT HIS DAD HAD TRANLATED AND TUNED OH DUNIYA KE RAKHWALE IN TO MALAYALAM AND tutored YESUDAS on this song…..
LAST YEAR YESUDAS JI MET A RAFI LOVER IN AN AIRCRAFT IN CHENNAI. HE READILY SANG FEW LINES OF : “OH DUNIYA KE RAKHWALE FOR THIS RAFI FAN AND ALSO WROTE FEW LINES APPLAUDING THE RAFI FOUNDATION IN MUMBAI FOR BEING A GREAT RAFI LOVER’s CLUB….
AS I SAID, ONLY A good gardener, ( A maali) can value the fragrance of the ROSE FLOWER.
Dear Siva ji, Anil Cherian ji and Common man saab,
Several years back, I had posted this comment on another forum about the characteristics of Rafi’s voice:
Kishore’s vibrance and masti
Asha’s versatility and range
Lata’s technical perfection and melody
Manna’s ustadi
Mukesh’s pathos
Talat’s silky touch
Geeta’s sensuousness
Hemant’s sweetness
Rafi was all that rolled into one, and more. You can call me a Rafi fanatic (I proudly wear that on my chest) but I try not to lose sense of my objectivity. Each of his male peers held him in the highest esteem, be it mukesh, manna, talat or kishore. Find me another singer whose admirers include saigal, k. c. dey, talat, manna, mukesh, kishore, yesudas and spb. That is what some fans of other singers cannot tolerate; the operating word is “envy”. They cannot accept the fact that rafi is considered the best by so many singers. They come to this site to show the superiority of their idol, putting down manna, yesudas, spb and anyone else who dares to consider rafi the best. These so-called experts (pandit bose, ustad khan, …) know more about music than all these accomplished singers! What a joke!
Like the three of you, I love yesudas, though my exposure to him is much more limited. After rafi saab passed away, I was rooting for yesudas, but unfortunately he couldn’t establish himself in the rough and tumble of hindi playback singing. I personally feel that there were two music directors who could have extracted the best out of him; one was salil and the other was jaidev. But in the 80s, these two md’s didn’t have too many assignments. Ravindra Jain and (surprisingly) boppi da composed some good songs for him, but he didn’t have the backing of rd, lp or ka.
Yesudas has a very sweet and mellifluous voice. But, in my humble opinion, that is what went against him. More on the “sweetness” factor later…
Post – 2079
Thank you very much sir – you are correct.
Post 2078: Only Mature Persons will appreciate OTHERS ART of singing. Mohd Rafi, Ghantasala and many others belong to this NOBLE BREED. Hence their GREATNESS which we also term – DIVINITY.
Rafi lovers and ghantasala fans as well,
I have recd. a interesting piece of information today on both these stalwarts. It has been said that Mohd. rafi sahab had specifically heard the “siva sankari” of ghantasala and was short of words for appreciating on the wonder rendition. Similarly, in the year 1968 or so (roughly) rafi had met ghantasala at his house before singing telugu film songs – ghantasala held rafi sahab in high esteem. – that’s a great gesture.
Common_man
“if Ghantasala was born a Hindi man, he would not have reached the same undisputed dominance in HFM like he did in the Telegu music industry”.
One cannot draw straight conclusions like that unless it actually happened to decide that. That is only a imagination and not reality – lols. We cannot draw abstract conclusions. Might be it have been possible ? I think the undisputed dominance for a playback singer for close to 3 decades was only in the telugu industry in india & no other language (film industry) had that fortune. Sure from 1980-95 roughly, SPB too had dominated the telugu industry, KJY did dominate in malayalam industry, but no one had a undisputed reign/dominance of close to 30 years. This is what makes the difference. . I like the KJY’s voice of the 70’s and 80’s. Comparisons between artists is really a difficult job (strictly there should be no comparison) and if healthy comparison is encouraged (without any prejudiced views), as I mentioned earlier frankly, when all the skills (technical, music direction, expression, language command, tough genres expertise, classical expertise etc. etc.) put together, I find ghantasala to have an edge over other playback singers and remember this I believe if we put all the skills put together. If we count on individual points for every artist, every artist has his own skill in one or other area – for instance kishore kumar’s strength in yodelling genres, SPB in mimicry genres etc. etc. Overall if you see (i.e the majority qualities and traits of perfection from an artistic view) the above view holds correct by majority. And in my view, this point may be relatively agreed to a larger extent only if you possess at least 75 – 80% knowledge on the overall talents, contribution and skills of the concerned artists. Anything lesser than that gives a scope for arriving at only imaginable conclusions, which are open to challenge and dispute. The advantage for telugu people is that so many of them (you can see in this forum only) have a vast knowledge of rafi and his songs similar to ghantasala, this is what creates an edge regarding knowledge on both singers for such people. Hindi fans of rafi ji on the other hand (I can include you as well if you don’t mind – if you mind my excuses for the same) as you agreed, by listenting to some 50 or 100 songs can arrive at conclusions only to a certain appreciable level, rather than fully. Even the same is applicable in case of other artists as well. These are my general views and nothing much to take on this front.
Common man,
Another few songs of ghantasala, all these songs are composed in ragas which require only soft and velvet voice to be displayed, otherwise technical deficiency arises as per musicians.
http://www.chitramala.com/audio-songs/pop_new.php?sid=4936&wid=734
http://www.chitramala.com/audio-songs/pop_new.php?sid=4915&wid=732&mode=0&rand=0.3533787586929323
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiobIYE96Xw
Common man,
this is another song sung in late 60’s, Even in late 60’s see the ease and attraction/melody in his voice.
http://www.chitramala.com/audio-songs/pop_new.php?sid=5544&wid=804
By the way both the songs are music directed by ghantasala himslef.
Common man,
SPB having velvet voice – I will not agree, only rafi had that effect in 60’s , yesudas had a soft effect for some period in 80’s and afterwards his voice has undergone a change. Depending upon the songs and ragas which require deliverance of soft and velvet effects, ghantasala’s voice had that clear effect. See this song, how melodious and smooth it comes in his voice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_DwpLPQEYI
I agree with your view that ghantasala’s voice was different having its own advantages, it was melodious with velvet touch, sharp, deep and majestic.
common_man,
Here’s a song where Rafi sahab sounds exceedingly resounding:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgMi6QjLBuM
Here’s another one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8ojo8PW7sI
And another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PuGjQtcFBA
common_man and Siva sir.
Here’s a KJY song composed by Raja sir:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT2oG9flkbk
Kannanji an common_man,
I think I have to explain my comment on ‘yeh mera prem patra…’. I am pretty certain that KJY would have sung a hypothetical Malayalam version of the song well and it would probably be a hit. But that’s not the point I wanted to convey. What I wanted to say is that ‘all that Rafi sahab brought in in this particular song is hard to replicate’. The softness, the tenderness, the voice match to the character et al are not something that’s easy to match. KJY, with a slightly heavier natural voice tone wouldn’t be able to go as tender. My bet is that Jayachandran would do a marginally better job(than KJY) in a hypothetical Malayalam song composed in the ‘yeh mera prem patra..’ mould.
Here’s P Jayachandran in a soft romantic song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmGX7M-ROYg
“I do not agree with your statement. In hindi yesudas might not find the relevant effect as that was not his field, but if the same song is sung in malayalam, yesudas might have delivered it as a hit.”
I strongly agree with you. Yesudas had the voice of God and he was inimitable. I like the scene in Trishul where Shashi Kapoor (the jovial good guy) is singing with Hema Malini “Mohabbat Bade Kaam Ki Cheez Hai”. Amitabh is the bitter man all by himself who comes into the song to “confront’ the couple. Shashi backed by the thundering, coarse voice of a 1978 Kishore Kumar and Hema is backed by the full voice of Lata Mangeshkar. That’s quite a vocal prescence. Nevertheless, Yesudas’ voice is smooth and velvety yet has a powerful, resounding, clear tone that gives Amitabh a great, towering presence in this scene. I’ve seen songs where Rafi’s voice is sweet, smooth, velvety, and has power and presence because the voice is so full and has harmnonic resonance. However, I think Yesudas’ voice is inimitable in its own way. I love that duet with Lata in the beginning of the movie. It’s very loving and romantic yet has a divine depth in tonal quality. If someone told me that Yesudas had the best voice ever…I may not categorically agree but I would dare not object. His voice is indeed Godly and unassailable IMO. It’s a perfect voice.
“rafi admitted a ghantasala sang a telugu number better than him – obviously this might be suvarna sundari number – kuhu kuhu in hindi, yes, I agree with that the telugu version was certainly better than the hindi version. I think, to my knowledge, excepting ghantasala, no other singer can surpass rafi.”
I think I’ve made my views on Rafi & Ghantasala comparisons very clear beforehand. Believe it or not, I actually welcome the differing opinions and appreciate the variety of people participating. I don’t want to step on anyone’s toes so I’ll keep my comments refrained. All I will say is that Ghantasala fans keep sharing songs where they tout his “smooth, velvet” voice but like Anil I don’t hear that at all. Yesudas, Rafi, and SPB have what I consider velvet, smooth voices. Ghantasala’s voice is different and it no doubt has its advantages but I like the smooth velvety voice best. Hey, maybe something is indeed wrong with my ears if I see the velvet smooth texture in Rafi, Yesudas, SPB but not Ghantasala. Maybe.
hi bushan,
let’s go through your post…
“Anil cherian and common man
This is my first post here. If you have no objection, I would like to introduce myself as pure ghantasala fan, of course having immense regard for other singers as well including the great mohd rafi of hindi.”
Although I have no objection, even if I did, who cares? Differing views should always be welcome.
“I am really surprised and felt very happy to see that the great and incomparable ghantasala being discussed in this great rafi forum – so many posts are there and my full regards and appreciations whosever has participated and enjoyed the southern film music contribution. My full regards to them.”
Ok…
“I am sure 100% that you have not heard ghantasala properly.”
I have heard 50 of his songs that his fans have touted so much. I agree with all the praise they give for his skill & technical perfection. I’m not sure about the properties of his voice itself.
“It is immaterial in which industry an artist is placed.”
Doesn’t it depend on what art each industry emphasizes? Kishore Kumar was very successful in the Hindi Film Industry thanks to his voice, expression, and inimitable personality. Would he have had the same success in Telegu? Now if you mean that the Telegu industry is in no way lesser than HFM and in that way it doesn’t matter what industry…then I can live with that.
“The inborn gifted talent always remains same. I do not know whether any ghantasala fan has shared one divine secret in any of the forums. In one of his articles ghantasala himself says that in the year 1944, when he was without food, one night he slept in a mahakali temple praying that if by tomorrow, you do not show me the way for life, that would be the end of my life. The next day, ghantasala was met by the great lyricist samudrala raghavacharya of the telugu industry and he took him to a marriage function and introduced him to a producer there and got booked for a film swargaseema in 1944.”
OK…this is a nice tale and all but I don’t see any concrete facts about Ghantasala’s true voice…
“After that there was no looking back, the entire course of the music history of the telugu industry was changed for the next 30 years and which remained incomparable.”
This is very relevant within the confines of the Telegu Industry i.e. if we were comparing Ghantasala with another Telegu singer. However, when we start comparing him with HFM singers like Rafi, I’m not sure if the above line has the same relevance. I know his ardent fans disagree, but even if Ghantasala was born a Hindi man, he would not have reached the same undisputed dominance in HFM like he did in the Telegu music industry.
“Ghantasala mentioned that the divine mother has blessed me with what I am today. Common man, ghantasala was blessed with the divine grace of the divine mother which gave him that status. It was due to the divine grace that ghantasala achieved a status with which none can be compared. Now you can understand what the talent which is blessed by divine grace will be. Can it have any comparison ? Just know this secret and you will know the truth. I just tell this point to anybody who argues over ghantasala. He is always the greatest since he was blessed by the divine grace of the divine mother.”
This is biblical hyperbole rather than much concrete fact. Besides, Mohammed Rafi and KJ Yesudas were blessed with divine grace too. Yesudas had the voice of God – it was velvet smooth, sweet, yet resoundingly powerful at the same time. Mohammed Rafi was an angel as a singer in his voice and expression of emotions and as a great human being in real life.
While I appreciate your story about Ghantasala’s prayer, I don’t see much concrete facts.
2069 – Anil Cherian
“Rafisahab’s effort in ‘yeh mera prem patra….’ is virtually unmatched. Not even a Yesu das can really rival it.”
I do not agree with your statement. In hindi yesudas might not find the relevant effect as that was not his field, but if the same song is sung in malayalam, yesudas might have delivered it as a hit. Please do not compare his malayalam vs. hindi style as that cannot happen as he belonged to kerala.
Rafi fan – the ghantasala song was nice to hear – he has got a literally, I would say, magnificient command over notes, raga which he displayed in the song. A very melodious and sweet song, liked it very much. He sings even the toughest notes very easily. I tried to sing the raga in the song (i have got little music knowledge) but despite trying many times, I was not able to sing the raga (it is only small but very fast paced) which ghantasala sang with literal ease.
Siva – rafi admitted a ghantasala sang a telugu number better than him – obviously this might be suvarna sundari number – kuhu kuhu in hindi, yes, I agree with that the telugu version was certainly better than the hindi version. I think, to my knowledge, excepting ghantasala, no other singer can surpass rafi.
Rafi fan 1 ji,
There are several songs in which KJY has made good use of the softness in his voice. I really don’t want to compare him/ his songs head on with Rafi sahab; I have no intention to do it. If my posts conveyed a different message, I am at a fault. Therefore I can’t refer to any songs in the ‘yeh mera prem patra..’ mould. I also have to agree (very gladly) that Rafisahab’s effort in ‘yeh mera prem patra….’ is virtually unmatched. Not even a Yesu das can really rival it. As for the Ghantasalaji song you have linked, I don’t find the voice to be all that soft or sweet; certainly not in the Rafi class. As I mentioned several times before, I am not a fan of that type of voice.
Siva sir,
Your post makes nice reading. “Kanne kalaimane..” is a fab song; really miss Raja sir of the ’80s. Here’s a KJY song for you composed by the great MSV.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-g0ZwFUFzU&feature=related
Is the same tune used in Tamil anytime?
Common_man,
Here’s a KJY song(Malayalam) for you composed by the under rated Ravindra Jain. The note progression of the song can rival any Salil da or RDB composition for its complexity and unpredictability.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I698QybN7X4
Bhushan,
I am aware of the facts which you mentioned in your post. I think I too mentioned this fact somewhere in kishore forum earlier. A person who is blessed by divine grace is a saint.
regret typo in my earlier post: please read kjy and spb are great fans of Rafi sahab…sincere regrets for the error
Refer post 2062:
I really hate to go into comparisions of great singers like Rafi, Kishore , Yesudas etc…but since you had asked for one song of KJ Jesudas(Yesudas in HFM), please listen to this masterpiece in the original Tamil version of Sadma(Moondram Pirai–meaning teej ka chand). Incindentally this song was the last song the great Tamil lyricist Kannadasan who reportedly wrote this song from the hospital at US after listening to the tune in a cassette that was sent to him by the music maestro Illayaraja.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5RCNJ2LJDs
This lullaby shows the softness and melody of KJY’s voice. There are hundreds of other songs of him. Let us please, please not go into endless comparisions of the legends. I am , repeat, I am a great fan of Rafi sahab(in this forum 3 articles of mine have been published and hence please do not get me wrong and immediately pounce on me for writing about KJY!!)
I also like songs of Kishore, Mukesh, Talat, Manna da, Hemant da, Ghantasala,TM Sounderarajan, KJY, SPB ,PBS (last 5 from South) ….
Let us always remember to appreciate all good singers/music directors/lyricists instead of going into an endless war of words. The legends who are no more must be having a laugh at the foolishness of us…KJY &SPB were great fans of Rafi saheb and so was Kishore. Rafi sahab in turn used to say” you all listen to my songs but I listen to Manna da’s songs more”.
In this forum only someone had written Rafi sahab himself admitted (with his typical humility) that Ghantasala had sung the telugu version of a song better than him.
When all these legends had a healthy competition and admiration for each other, why should we go into such comparisons?
Enjoy the golden era of Hindi/Tamil/Telugu/Malayalam or whatever regional music that this great country has…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5RCNJ2LJDs
Anil cherian and common man
This is my first post here. If you have no objection, I would like to introduce myself as pure ghantasala fan, of course having immense regard for other singers as well including the great mohd rafi of hindi. I am really surprised and felt very happy to see that the great and incomparable ghantasala being discussed in this great rafi forum – so many posts are there and my full regards and appreciations whosever has participated and enjoyed the southern film music contribution. My full regards to them. I am sure 100% that you have not heard ghantasala properly. It is immaterial in which industry an artist is placed. The inborn gifted talent always remains same. I do not know whether any ghantasala fan has shared one divine secret in any of the forums. In one of his articles ghantasala himself says that in the year 1944, when he was without food, one night he slept in a mahakali temple praying that if by tomorrow, you do not show me the way for life, that would be the end of my life. The next day, ghantasala was met by the great lyricist samudrala raghavacharya of the telugu industry and he took him to a marriage function and introduced him to a producer there and got booked for a film swargaseema in 1944. After that there was no looking back, the entire course of the music history of the telugu industry was changed for the next 30 years and which remained incomparable. Ghantasala mentioned that the divine mother has blessed me with what I am today. Common man, ghantasala was blessed with the divine grace of the divine mother which gave him that status. It was due to the divine grace that ghantasala achieved a status with which none can be compared. Now you can understand what the talent which is blessed by divine grace will be. Can it have any comparison ? Just know this secret and you will know the truth. I just tell this point to anybody who argues over ghantasala. He is always the greatest since he was blessed by the divine grace of the divine mother.
Anil cherian ji,
Jayachandran clean voice is preferred by many malayalam singers than k j y. Even in the current generation sreekumar had achieved popularity. Rafi ji had a sweet voice and clear voice, a bit husky in some situations. In south, in 50’s and 60’s ghantasala was supreme and I think KJY did not match upto that status of ghantasala at any time. I have heard bhagavad gita of both ghantasala and kjy – ghantasala’s rendition stands supreme in all areas and KJY is not much appealing. Even SPB’s rendition of the same is not much appealing. The ghantasala bhagavad gita is played daily in tirumala temple. It is so famous. Have you heard the song krishna mukunda murari of ghantasala which is regularly played in guruvayur temple in kerala. It is very melodious and sweet song of ghantasala. You will really appreciate the sweetness of music when you hear the song. KJY’s voice was nice to hear in 70’s and 80’s, but afterwards his voice had undergone a change and was not appealing as much as before. Jayachandrans voice has been appealing to many malayalees.
Anil Cherian ji,
You had stated
“I like voices more that are generally sweet, polished and easy on ears. When these properties are combined with a resounding, manly character, (as is the case with Rafi sahab and Yesu Das sir) they are hard to beat.”
I too like the same voices but I would perfectly differ with you, like rafi fan, about rafi-yesudas. Yesudas really does not have that “madhurya” effect which rafi had. Moreover, Both were not contemporary singers and hence a comparison cannot be made between both. KJY was never popular in 50’s and 60’s and the era was ruled by only two singers in indian playback singing. One rafi in north and ghantasala in south. I know that you know this fact perfectly. SPB, kishore kumar and KJY belong to one era (most largely) and it is better to make comparisons between these singers (if any comparison has to be made) and these singers owe their obeisance to the foremost 2 foundational singers of indian playback singing and the era which they had created is unsurpassable, (in north and south) and which is called as golden era of playback singing. No era after 1960’s has been called as golden era of playback singing in any language, even the successive generation singers spb, kjy himself and others echo similar views now and then very frequently. SPB even regularly says that we are eating only whatever little has been left by rafi and ghantasala in their plates. This statement of SPB is enough to remove all mis conceptions and ignorant views of any fan who thinks otherwise.
Anil Cherian
I respect your views. I requested you to share one song of KJY which can be as appealing (or at least nearer) to rafi ji’s yeh prem patra. But sorry, You could not respond to my request. I will be fully convinced if you could provide a song of KJY which can be similarly appealing.
Next,
“I like voices more that are generally sweet, polished and easy on ears” When these properties are combined with a resounding, manly character, they are hard to beat”.
http://www.chitramala.com/audio-songs/pop_new.php?sid=6924&wid=974
That is nice. What do you say about the above song. The song was shared by vitthal ji. The ghantasala’s voice not only possesses all the qualities which you mentioned in full, but also excels in technical ability as well. The perfection is full. This is really hard to beat. The song is really “appealing” similar to rafi’s yeh prem patra. Whether the singer has sung one such type song is irrelevant, the thing to be noted is that he had such type of voice which can be displayed and changed at will, depending upon the type of song. That is what exactly my following paras explain. On similar ways, I requested for a KJY song, but unless you provide such “appealing” number, it is really hard to believe your words about rafi – yesudas comparison, though I still maintain that rafi’s voice is much more appealing than KJY. Or at least, I request for a song of KJY on similar lines of the ghantasala song above.
I was told that ghantasala was a major singer in changing the voice pitch technique (as stated by his fans here). So I believe that many of his songs you will find the above technique depending the requirement of the situation demanding for the songs. You will not find similar voice for all the songs, as the situation requires different types of voice emotions, of course, in all the songs the technical ability remains supreme. That is a special talent indeed, what do you say ?
And what I understand from one musician friend is that, different type of ragas require change of voice in different styles. Some type of ragas require soft voice, some type of ragas require hard voice and some type of ragas require coarse voice & some type booming voice, some resonating, some resounding, some pathetic display etc. etc. Not only the expressions, even the voice culture has to undergo the change. One of my ghantasala fan friends, who is a musician, argues that the singer has sung so many ragas, that many of the ragas require different type of voice skills and which he was adept in displaying (changing in voice technique). That is why, perhaps, anil I think you will not find the sweet and soft voice in all the songs. Why do not you hear the ragas sung by ghantasala, which requires only soft, sweet and velvet voice to be displayed, then what will be your view? As my musician friend says, if you go to the qualities of the raga, that becomes the perfect voice. Many singers maintain the same voice in all the ragas, going by the above description this is only a limited talent.
Mohammed Rafi Saab indeed possessed a very unique voice culture which in my very personal view is born once in a life-time which can never ever be matched or compared with any singer living or dead.
In addition he was a most confident person who indeed had great faith in himself, his adayegis were deadly, great respect for self & others at large and most importantly god fearing and respect for the poor & downtrodden which indded made him a complete human being par par excellance.
For me there an never ever be the like of Mohammed Rafi!!!
Common_man,
Here’s two extremely talented young Malayalam singers singing a few KJY songs (set to his amazing 2.5+ octave vocal range) live.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk4XOZUYO98
What do you think about their singing and voice?
BTW, you can find Mrs & Mr. Yesu das among the viewers as well some of the better known names in Malayalam film music industry.
Rafifan 1 ji,
I don’t really want to go into Yesu Das- Rafi voice comparison; will just say that for common people like ‘the common_man’ and myself the two voices have many things in common. The number of Rafi& Yesu Das fans (folks who are fans of both these singers) is a proof to the fact. I respect your views and let’s agree to disagree on this for now.
What I would rather discuss about is the male vocal types- since you mentioned about it. You were mentioning about two voice types that are most appealing; to me it is a little different. I am of the view that male voices can be good/ attractive in many ways.
Here are two voices with decidedly different properties:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AU7Ywuvn0Gk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-2Tnp9whDU
The boyish, light voice of the first singer is eqally appealing to me as the matured, resounding voice of the second one.
Speaking of HFM, there is Talat saab with a soft-n-light voice on one end of the horizon and there is Hemantda with that booming heavy voice at the other end. Both the voices have their own charm. For a voice, in HFM my first choice would be Rafi saab followed by Talat saab and Kishoreda. In the South, it is KJY followed by Jayachandran. The Ghantasala voice doesn’t appeal to me much though I admire him a lot as a singer and a musician. Among the old generation South movie singer, the one voice I like is that of PBS. Like the ‘common_man’ and as a common man, I like voices more that are generally sweet, polished and easy on ears. When these properties are combined with a resounding, manly character, (as is the case with Rafi sahab and Yesu Das sir) they are hard to beat.
Common man 2056
“doesn’t sound as natural as the more mundane (but tried and tested form) of the telegu composition”.
That is what I was saying. The hindi song, similar effects could have been poured like the everlasting melodious number yeh chaand sa roshan chehra, as the mood in the ek hasina ek musafir is also similar to the kashmir ki kali number, and both songs are composed by O P Nayyar. But rafi fails in the hasina number and does not contribute like the kashmir ki kali number. Since the tunes were resembling at many places, in telugu and hindi numbers, I compared both of them (true the situations were different, and vitthal ji stated that correctly) and for sure, the telugu song sounded more energetic and decent as compared to the hindi one. This was my view and hope you get it.
Regarding, K J yesudas and rafi, I firmly stand on my view, there is a vast difference between both the voices, K J Y is no where near rafi. I am not much aware of his contribution to malayalam music, and I understand that he is a famous singer there. But as far as HFM and rafi is concerned, I do not know how you arrived at the conclusion of the “common features” in both of them. Even basically, I do not find the dignified & sincere expressive voice factor in KJY’s voice, as it is present in the voice of rafi as well as ghantasala. In my experience, the latter two voices easily capture the attention of a listener, but KJY’s voice does not capture so easily the attention of a listener. Just analyse, when Mr Anil was mentioning about criticism by even classical musicians, I have my own question marks. No offence of course is meant, but any comparison with rafi will be a straight flat comparison and nothing else. I agree with the booming factor which you mentioned and which I too incidentally mentioned as strong and nothing beyond that. Even Mahendra kapoor and kishore kumar have strong voices. Currently even udit narayan has a strong and deep voice. That does not mean they are capable of catching everybody’s attention.
Vitthal ji,
Thanks for your views
Deewana hua badal gaana jo bhi sunega
woh rafi ka deewana zaroor ban jayega
Yes, sir, kashmir ki kali and rafi songs – peerless and incomparable.
Rafifan ji,
Yeh mera prem patra – mohd rafi from sangam is very good song, one of his mega hits.
I personally think that during the period tajmahal to kashmir ki kali, rafi ji’s voice had the exact attraction, particularly the period i believe from 1960-68, the voice had exact maturity with nice bass, capable of clearly mesmerising people. The effect of such voice of rafi can be clearly noted in this song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beqTRIpoos8
The 50’s songs you won’t find similar mesmerising effect to this extent. That is why many say each singer had his own period of strength. Ghantasala had that charm relatively more from 1953 to 1965/66 and to that era belonged the songs from suvarna sundari and other great gems of this legend. Rafi ji had maintained his voice in a healthy way relatively for a longer period.
rafi & yesudas do have some great, *common features* in their voices. of course, there are some differences in their voices too as you suggested with “yeh mera prem patra”. i really like the way yesudas combines a booming, resounding, and silky smooth all at once in his voice in the song with kishore & lata from trishul. not something i hear everyday.
“the telugu tune is better composed as well as better sung, even expression wise”
i agree that the composition is “better”. op’s composition is a bit unusual in the effects it wants from the singer’s voice. doesn’t sound as natural as the more mundane (but tried and tested form) of the telegu composition. given that the two compositions demand different vocal effects, it’s comparing apples and oranges to say that the telegu song is better sung. it’s not just the different genre but the different vocal effects that op’s composition demands. since all the singers did not sing a variety of similar songs, i just judge the singers with their very best singing / songs / compositions.
Anil Cherian, contd. to my previous post
Here is the link for the malayalam songs, just outline can be known as full link is not available. This was shared by one of the friends. May be you can throw more light on this.
http://www.malayalasangeetham.info/php/createSongIndex.php?txt=Ghantasala&stype=singers&submit=Find+Songs
Rafifan1 – 2051-53 posts
Thank you very much for your views.
A clear point – rafi ji is unsurpassable in hindi film world.
The song of rafi ek musafir ek hasina by rafi and o cheli kopama by ghantasala – the tune matches to the extent of 90%, with small dilutions. In hindi, it is romantic, sung by rafi keeping in mind the expressions/traits required for the actor and the scene and it was well sung by rafi as usual in line with his famous romantic songs. But this song has not become much popular ?
In telugu, the scene is pacifying the spouse i.e. romantic pacification of the spouse who is in angry mood, and ghantasala creates the perfect expression effect. Moreover, the telugu video quality is clear than the hindi video, giving the good bass effect, Neverthless, it is one of my favourite songs and a hit song of ghantasala.
Musically, the telugu music director has put up more attractive notes (where the version is different) and accordingly one may prefer the telugu number in terms of the attractive notes. The song is one of hits by ghantasala. Thanks for reminding the songs. I have not heard the manna dey version, neverthless I can imagine that manna cannot match either rafi or ghantasala.
The syamala mitra song from sagarika vs. aradhana (telugu) song of ghantasala, yes, this song was shared with Arghya ji, in kishore forum and he had expressed that ghantasala had a clear edge in all areas in the song as compared to bengali version. (Arghya ji was a better judge as compared to me for this song)
Rafi fan ji, Mohd rafi alone matches well for ghantasala’s level (in some genres where comparison can be made) and no other singer can be put up for comparison. This may appear to be a subjective view for fans of some singers, but this view is firmly held by stalwarts possessing knowledge of various playback singers.
Coming to your views on K J Yesudas, I am of the view that he is an accomplished singer in the south and specially his songs are more popular from the 70’s and 80’s from the malayalam field. Sure, in hindi no body can surpass rafi, and KJY has sung many songs in telugu as well, but as rafi cannot be surpassed in hindi, in the south, ghantasala can never be surpassed and it is difficult to even imagine for anybody to come even nearer.
You might have heard the name of C Narayana Reddy, the famous lyricist of the south, who was recently mentioning in a programme that he has never heard a great voice like that of ghantasala in playback singing. This is not for comparison but only would like to share that the importance what the genius singer enjoys even today, similar to the status of mohd rafi ji in hindi.
Anil cherian ji,
I am searching for the links of ghantasala songs sung in malayalam and would like to have your views, as and when they are posted.
vitthal ji and anil cherian
contd.. to my previous post
That was one of the similar gems of rafi and ghantasala.
Here is rafi’s version of yeh mera prem patra from sangam (I think you are well aware of the song) – Rafi sahab’s expressions are great – the smooth velvet soft and silky voice on which I had laid the thrust in my post 2051
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohEIWdIGXCo
Anil, any such type of song (even nearer) from yesudas, even from malayalam field.
Contd.. to previous post
Post for specially Vitthal ji and Anil Cherian
The following links have been shared by a friend (I do not know perhaps these have been discussed in these or other forums) But it interested me.
Ek Musafir Ek Hasina (by mohd rafi ji)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzzQSGMlZIw
Mostly soft natured and silky voice as I mentioned in my previous post.
Similar (mostly) song by ghantasala
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo55dh27aHY
Vitthal ji, In my honest view, the telugu tune is better composed as well as better sung, even expression wise. (perhaps due to different situations – the hindi one is romantic and telugu one is purana romantic). In telugu, the voice is more stronger and deep, a factor which I mentioned in my previous post. I liked it a lot. I have to agree with that and i was told that the telugu song was sung in 1966 wheas rafi sang it in 1962
I was told that the same song is sung in bengali as
shundori o amari – Manna Dey from Sri Krishna Prem. I tried for the link, but was unsuccessful.
Following song by one syamala mitra from bengali film sagarika
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fknHrM-kLhM&feature=youtube_gdata
Same song by ghantasala in telugu – he literallly sweeps as compared to bengali version which just pales before the telugu one in terms of even soft and velvet voice effects.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLt8TQppsw0
Anil, this was the base for my previous post.
Anil Cherian,
I do not subscribe to your views of Yesudas’s voice being like rafi’s. Rafi’s voice was more melodious than yesudas and with a silky effect. Yesudas simply does not have that effect in his voice. In my view His voice is strong capable of delivering songs with depth but frankly, for my own reasons, i do not find yesudas’s voice that much melodious and attractive as we find with rafi. In general, the most appreciated voices belong to 2 categories, one is the soft, silky, melodious, smooth with velvet effect to which category rafi belongs and the other is soft, stronger, deeper and sharper with velvet effect, melodious to which category ghantasala belongs and of course, a matter of preference which category of voice you prefer, but both categories have their own distinct advantages. I have seen many times your views for comparing yesudas with rafi, which I simply do not agree to. Just hear yesudas hindi songs and rafi hindi songs – there is a vast vast difference between both. Hence, any comparison between both will simply be futile exercise. In hindi film world yesudas just cannot be brought anywhere near rafi. And indeed i am surprised to note that classical musicians have criticised yesudas – is it so ? It will be worthwhile to note the points which have been raised by such critics.
Mr. Srini,
“We can pick a bunch of kishores song that would not sound as appealing if rendered by rafi or ghantasala” – is it so ? Are you sure ? I think you are trying to compare a river with 2 oceans.