True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
Dear fans of legends
Please stop arguing as that will not lead to anywhere. Please close this issue here, I hope this should be last post in this regard. I support bhushan’s latest post – it will only expose people who use wrong and abusive remarks and create a wrong impression about them.
already happened in sister kishore site and other outside sites, people just hate these kind of nonsense comments by these biased rafi fans. They have themselves exposed them
I agree with rafi fan ji, this blog needs to be closed as unnecessary arguments are continuing. Rafi was a great and good man, I never expected some of his followers to behave with abusive mouths. You can shout at fans but not the artist – it is basic common sense.
Dear Moderator,
It is better to close this thread as only unnecessary bickerings appear to continue.
I agree with bhushan, the kind of language and posts, when seen by any outsider clearly exposes the so called biased rafi fans and brings bad image to them and it has already happened.
Dear Hans, zaneendanish and others
Anybody who visits this site will just know of the language and attitude and mentality of rafi fans like you and it is rafi fans like you who will be exposed at all times and tend to lose, (you all are already exposed) we shall stand only as decent people – understood. lols.
G. Sala fans, you can not prove supremacy of your idol over Rafi in hundred years. Rafi is always great and popular, nobody denies that. Even many great commentators have exposed you clearly G. Sala being a local singer and Rafi Sahab a national singer known all over the world. your comments are baseless and biased. The hardcore rafi fans will start ” YALGAR ” on G. sala fans at any time, if you do not shut your filthy mouths and keep commenting about our Great Rafi Sahab. Because there is a saying in hindi, ” LATON KE BHOOT BATON SE NAHIN MANTE”.
abhishek – 2685
“Oh, rafi ji,
Even on your anniversary day, these people are fighting here instead of discussing regarding you.”
what a hypocritical lamentation. you cant fool us by your drama. rafi fans are fighting for the honour of their idol rafi, which some frustrated fraudulent fools are trying to lessen. for rafi fans every day is 24th dec and 31st july.
“I do not know why these so called disguised rafi fans continue to dig up the same thing again and again i.e foolish arguments, when there were no such discussions in the recent past.”
what is so called disguised rafi fans. have you gone bankrupt on words. why rafi fans will disguise for defending him. or you are just using it because we used this for you. this is again bankruptcy of ideas. so you will decide when and what rafians should write. sometimes foolish arguments are preferable when the persons you are dealing with are fools.
“that no amount of comment can increase or decrease rafi and ghantasala or their achievements in any way”
that is true and should be understood by you that no amount of comment by people like you can decrease the achievements of rafi. neither can you increase the status of ghantasala from a regional monopoliser. rafians have become rafians after appreciating thousands of gems of rafi and you cant change them by your lies and canards.
“One should have unbaised views and be bold to accept that the song was a very great composition and ghantasala was just marvellous than both rafi and lata.”
I dont know about the telugu version but the hindi ‘suvarna sundari’ was a super-flop film and the song is remembered due to rafi and lata. but, there are thousands of other gems of these two singers which are much better than ‘kuhu kuhu’. for ghantasala may be these three songs which you repeatedly refer to are the question of life and death.
“This is truth and any amount of shouting cannot change this, even if you do not like it, the truth cannot be changed.”
your shouting cannot change the truth that rafi is a global singer and ghantasala can at best be termed as equal to rafi even in telugu land i.e. andhra pradesh. in all other places in india rafi is far ahead of him.
“Please do not feel jealous of this fact.”
in fact you are jealous of the fact that rafi is even more popular and widely known and respected than ghantasala even in andhra.
Bhushan and others (ghantasala fans)
Rafi site or rafi fans, we do not need your arguments comments neither laurels to rafi from your filthy mouths. Rafi is beyond and above all this.
we (rafi fans) are sure not in need of your certificate to rafi and his singing. keep your comments in your pocket and get lost from this site. if any one of you fans try to comment in foolish and rubbish way, the great abusive efforts will be in full force about your idol. This is a mild warning to you all.
One small addition “we never enter into any other blog of rafi as here i.e. except as admirers of rafi” and given the nature of this blog/thread, our arguments are constructive and reasonable.
Zaheendanish
We understand what you say. We never enter into any other blog of rafi. This blog is rafi vs southern singers/industry going by this thread. So you have no business for abuses, only constructive and full proof arguments should be done (not fool’s arguments please)
Correct abhishek, we should mention names instead of numbers as some overlapping. My posts/abhishek’s were addressed to Zaheendanish – 2780
Post numbers are overlapping due to posts appearing later – Dr. ji post is 2775 instead of 2774 and Zaheendanish post is 2780 instead of 2777 – this needs to be accordingly adjusted when reading is done.
Zaheendanish
There are many oceans not one ocean – this needs no clarification
Zaheendanish ji
Going by the perfect visible evidence in post 2774 of Dr. Chandrasekhar, G too was melody king & supreme like rafi.
2777
There is no option other than for abuses, because you knew the truth what is correct from post 2774 of dr. ji
2777
You & others are very well listening and reading & enjoying everything, otherwise how will you respond ? BTW I am not ghantasala fan – you are again wrong.
Dear Dr. Chandrashekharji, Anil Cherianji & Maha Devikaji,
Thank you very much for your kind compliments.
Maha devikaji, I want to thank you for presenting to us a precious gem of the immortal Rafi Saab, “Main jab gaoon geet purana” through your post 2762, which otherwise would have remained undiscovered to me. See the versatility of Rafi saab. At that tender age his approach to this semi-classical song was unique although he did not belong to the group of typical classical singers.
As regards your question as to why the MDs took so much time in recognizing Mohd. Rafi, Anil Cherianji has very nicely thrown some light on the issue. Going along the same lines I would say that as per my little knowledge goes, the 1940s, for the most part was dominated by the legendary K.L.Saigal. Although not as versatile as Rafi Saab, Saigalji nevertheless possessed extraordinary sweetness in his voice that kept people spellbound. He had profound influence on the other singers too, such as Atma and Mukesh and many others who use to copy Saigal. When I heard Mukesh’s “Dil jalta hai to jalne do” I mistook that for Saigal. It took time for Mukesh to come out of the influence of Saigal to develop his own style. The versatility of Mohammed rafi came to lime light when Rafi saab’s duet with Noorjahan, “Yahan badla wafa ka” became a super hit and then the MDs started to utilize Rafi and in 1952, “Baiju Bawra” came with unprecedented success. Since then Rafi never looked back. The rest is history.
Regards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcXFPDHBoLI
Are these not the low notes in the songs beautifully rendered by rafi sahab. If this is not a perfect example of low notes, than what could else be, I am speechless after hearing this breathtaking and killing gem of rafi sahab greatest singing prowess, his utmost versatility and above all sweeteness and melody at its zenith.
Can any body bring such type of song of their favorite singer. They never can, as Rafi is always the best, the greatest playback singer india has ever seen, rather world has ever has.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIJz36sdOV4
Ghantasala was in a small pond (in a region), but whereas Rafi was in ocean (worldwide) . Ghatasala gave voice more or less to only two southern actors namely ANR and NTR. What about Rafi the colossus of playback singing and king of melody given his his to top most actors until he dies. You bunch of so called ghantasala fans why did you come here to this site, get lost to your idol site and spread your useless talk/comments there. because there is no one to listen your bla bla bla……..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyYSK3BIOA8
link to post 2777
the song of rafi as a cxhallenge, in the previous post.
Can Any body bring atleast one song of their favorite singer which can be put against this great song duet of rafi sahab. people have talked too much of versatility of their singer, open challengs, bring such song of your so-called legend.
i am certain that nobody will dare to bring such a song, if they fail, than they should accept the defeat and say that rafi sahab is indeed the best singer of india of all times.
i am sure nobody will accept this challenge, this will prove that rafi fans were always right.
Mr. Hans – Now please do not say that “The hindu” is not a newspaper and is a big lie. – Refer post 2774 of Dr. Chandrasekhar.
Hans – At least be truthful to your conscience, I repeat, Many people like you who have little or no knowledge about artists start commenting on him i.e. a big fun.
Hans ji,
“even the fiercest of enemies of rafi would not say that ” Then what is this please – from the no. 1 daily of India.
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/mp/2003/02/11/stories/2003021100450100.htm
And I do not know who Mr. Viswanathan or Mr. swaminathan is – for your information hans ji. I am myself a carnatic classical musician and can better judge who was what. – Cheers do not get excited.
Hans
I have nothing against you or anybody. Well, you do not believe viswanathan, fine then swaminathan might be alive, because viswanathan says he is no more. Why dont you contradict this point of Mr. viswanathan dear hans ji? When he says something about ghantasala you do not believe, but believe the facts which are comfortable for you. good keep it up.
bhushan – 2683
you wrote:
“but who continues to shine in the hearts of scores of music lovers even after 3 decades.”
and ghantasala shines in the hearts of millions. this line shows your true identity. even the fiercest of enemies of rafi would not say that and you claim to be a true music lover.
you have rightly tried to show rafifan 1 as favouring rafi. because he will then support you in return. that is a true nexus.
many of your lies have been exposed by vishesh kumar rathore in post 2679. now i will expose other lies you have been spreading and have again reiterated in this post.
“Readers can also refer one post of Mr. Viswanathan, a close friend of Mr. Swaminathan iyer,”
anybody can claim himself a friend of anybody on internet (as mr. swaminathan is not alive to either confirm or rebut that).
“he clarifies why Mr. Swaminathan, despite his huge respect of ghantasala in this article, purposefully avoided ghantasala in this article, (when he mentions all other southern singers)”
what mr. swaminathan meant can only be inerpreted from his writing and you cannot spoon-feed us through what this viswanathan believed. the article of mr. swaminathan was written in response to a thread about SPB and there was a fight between SPB and KJY fans and there was also mention of rafi.
you have tried to spread the canard that he mentioned all southern singers. actually he discussed only SPB and to some extent KJY. you say viswanathan says ghantasala was a favourite of mr. swaminathan. that is also a big lie. in the start of his article he mentions the singers with which he had close contact and ghantasala is not one of them.
otherwise also mr. swaminathan has categorically placed rafi above all the male singers in the industry and he has not mentioned the word hindi film industry.
stop spreading lies, because you cannot win an argument on the base of lies.
Maha Devikaji,
Speaking about bass, the Rafi voice, at its prime, holds its own when pitted against other male voices in HFM when it comes to heaviness and punch and scores over them when it comes to sweetness.
Please listen to this (edited version of the) song from Andaz:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN-BM5O08xo&feature=related
If anything, Rafi sahab’s voice is even punchier than the intrinsically heavy voice of Kishoreda.
Same is the case with the following song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBDQ-BaUQ7Q
Here’s Rafi sahab with Manna da (another one with a solidly heavy voice)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsXl5eCgp_U
Finally, Rafi sahab with Mahendraji (a voice as heavy as any in HFM):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFuo1wrfOOI
As you have rightly observed, only people with vested interest can find the Rafi voice lacking in bass.
Bhushan,
My point was only that with the advent of new heroes and new trends, SPB might well have created a niche for himself even with Ghantasalaji around by the mid-late ’70s. This should not be inferred as SPB being ‘better’ than Ghantasalaji. It’s simply that SPB’s filmier (or let’s say non-classical) voice and style was better suited for the changing times. It’s a little like Talat/Rafi taking over from the legends of the 30s/40s in HFM.
By the way, I don’t fully subscribe to the view that SPB was an also-ran till “Shankarabharanam’ happened. I know for certain that he was the undisputed leader in Tamil from around 75/76 (as MGR/Sivaji/Gemini era was dawning and Kamal/Rajini era was emerging). I also know that SPB sang extensively for people like Sobhan Babu and Krishna right from the early ’70s. Perhaps Prabhanjan (if he still around somewhere) can throw more light.
In This song Rafiji voice beautifully articulating the extreme PATHOS, BLEAKNESS, DESPAIR, ANGUISH, and SUFFERINGs the character of the film is going through, one of the best examples of the depth of his voice’s expressive clout.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wqUzFwGg6g&feature=autoplay&list=ULri0Pziyug0E&index=301&playnext=1
another early 1950 song of rafi sahab.
rafiji voice has an adequate bass, in contrary to some clowns propagating wrong impression about him.
Rafi Sahab voice, Melody at its extreme heights, sweeteness at its zenith, surr at its pinnacle, honey-dipped, mesmerizing, enchanting voive,enthralling, Beguiling voice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8fsB4SKs2M&feature=BFa&list=ULri0Pziyug0E&index=314
Shri Anil Charianji! I have been going through all the posts, I am very pleased to know that we have such brilliant commentators like you & Mr Musharaf Ji or for instance Dr. Chandrasekharji.
The assesement you have made is quite appealing, in my opinion this could be the best reply to my question. I am a relatively new student of singing and is in my teens, but the most experienced and impartial comments provided by my honorable elders is a source of pleasant learning and indeed an insparation to me to try to write as good as my respected commentators like you. I also feel more and more pride as a rafi sahab lover, and the feelings that how fortunate are we to have legendry rafi sahab, who has sung countless numbers for us in every possible mood and genre of hindi music. the non-filmi ghazals sung by mohd. rafi sahab are so soothing for the ears. i wish if i could ever have listened to him live by sitting beside that greatest and most noble singer of india.
songs like,’too hi woh haseen he, haye”. the way rafiji used to utter the word “haye” is just killing taking ones breath away. then ‘mey kahin kavi na bun jawoon” what gr8 renditions by the legendry singer. as far as low notes singing is concerned, rafiji had full command in thatalso, listen to the initial, or beginning of the song, “yeh mehlon , ye tajon, ye takhton ki duniya”. the initial low notes singing is just”flawless”. This is a mere propaganda by his haters, or by people who dont know nooothing about the smaller details of singing. rafiji has been flawless in every aspect of singing.
just listen to ‘gulon ke rang, sitaron ki roshni dey dou” , then “kesse kategi zindagi, tere bagher”. Can anybody have sweeter voice than rafi, indeed not, as mentioned by somebody, somewhere the “heer” of mera naam joker, and “bapu ki ye amar kahani”. you start listen to him for days and days and you will never get bored anytime. If your mode is asking for ghazal, you have it in rafiji voice, if you wana listen to sad songs, the pathos which rafiji is able to generate is just, ‘wow’. shadi songs, geet, ghazal, thumri, bhajan, naat, classical, semi classical, you always have so many numbers by rafi sahab in each of these genres.
I there any singer wh is so much praised evry day, every night, indeed not. The rafi-magic mesmerizes every body, including his friends and foes.
Rafiji, i love you and your voice, and one day in swarg, i’ll be asking you with utmost politeness to sing for me, and i am sure you’ll sing each and evry of your countless song for me. rafiji is the best, “Baqi sub mayya hey”
Dear Maha Devikaji,
Thanks for the links. How good and clear Rafi sahab sounded in the low notes! May be we should ask The Rafi-critics (who try to hit at his relatively fewer attempts at low-notes) to listen to these songs.
I am unable to answer your question. But there are plenty of seasoned music lovers here who could do it. What I can do is some guess-work. Perhaps the the MDs were not entirely impressed with the ‘different’ (from Saigal, Mallick, Atma &Co) voice. Another reason could be that in that era of predominantly low-pitched singing, there were people who were better (though Rafi sahab was pretty good at low-notes) at it. I am listening to ‘preetam aan milo’ as I am writing this. C.H.Atma is in top form in those ultra-bass notes.
Thanks once again for the songs; please keep on sharing those rare ones.
Has anybody heard heer in a more sweet voice than muhammad rafiji in sadke heer tere.
also hear this plz
, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UTgLNOt0TM&feature=BFa&list=ULri0Pziyug0E&index=328
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwe91fljfPw&feature=BFa&list=ULri0Pziyug0E&index=325
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuxXT3uINvs&feature=BFa&list=ULri0Pziyug0E&index=323
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Luvnw5EnX9Y&feature=BFa&list=ULri0Pziyug0E&index=315
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzIUDGIMjOk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
One of another initials, just enjoy the charming voice of rafi sahab.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU95UkXAG0E
Just listen to one of the earliest song of rafi sahab. even at a tender age, his voice is so pure and rich,.
i haerd this song for the first time and thoroghly enjoyed the charm and majic of young rafi sahab.
I cant understand why it took m.d’s a few years to recognise that sweet voice, anybody who can through light on this, i shall be highly appreciative of this. I just love his songs so much.
Woh bharat desh hai mera – unparalleled in the voice of rafi – thanks for the full song.
Abhishek
Happy independence day – Woh bharat desh hai mera – an unparalleled song bringing out the unparalleled culture and greatness of India – in the voice of rafi ji – very beautiful song –
Happy independence day to all.
One of my favourites of rafi woh bharat desh hai mera – in the nice voice of rafi ji – let people enjoy with heart
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0kPkqkrHPk&feature=related
Anil cherian
“one can only make wild guesses as to what would have happened in Telugu film music if he were still alive, let us say in 1976/77.”
It was a vaccum in telugu film industry from 74-80. to a bit ramakrishna was active as SPB was not considered effective though he joined the field in 1967 deliberately striving for success. SPB and others were not accepted in telugu music in that period. SPB got break only in 1980 from sankarabharanam film by fluke, after a great effort, and his songs were criticised in that film by none less than BMK, the classical doyen – After that SPB had rendered all crap songs in hundreds for which he was fit. SPB stated many times (even today he states in his paaduta teeyaga programmes), – I used to get fever whenever I used to get a call for recording a song for some side heroes in 60’s and the music directors were s rajeswara rao and pendyala whose compositions ghantasala only did excel – the greatest music directors of 50’s and 60’s telugu music. So your analysis does not appear to be correct as facts are different. Of course, this is not for supporting ghantasala, agreed change is inevitable for everybody and everything over a period of time. If ghantasala would have been alive today, he would have been like p suseela now and same would have happened with rafi too.
Dear Musharaff ji,
I have lot of appreciations for your below line in your post. Keep it up. Hope ignorant people know this.
“At the end I would like to say again that let us give the the due appreciation to any singer on the basis of historical facts.”
Since there is some talk about the Ghantasala voice of late, I thought I would add my 2 cents. His voice is what I call a ‘vidhwan’ (or bhagvatar) voice, very appealing to Carnatic classical music ( and may be Hindustani classical music) lovers but too matured, too dull and may be too nasal for others. Most of the play back singers of the South possessed this broad type of voice uptill the advent of KJY and SPB and indeed they were all very accomplished classical singers. TRM, TMS, Sirkazhi, A M Raja and Udyabhanu are some of the names that I can think on top of my head. P B S had a slightly differently textured voice from this pack- more youthful and less nasal. When Yesu Das and later Jayachandran entered the scene the old pack to make way for them in Malayalam. Ditto with Tamil and Kannada when SPB made his entry over there. Ghantasalaji left this world when this wind of change was blowing in South film music; one can only make wild guesses as to what would have happened in Telugu film music if he were still alive, let us say in 1976/77.
I don’t think these voices (of Ghantasalaji and co) can be faced-off with any voice in HFM. Mannada’s voice , though classically trained, retained some of its smoothness and youthfulness. Mukeshji’s voice, though nasal, could be more emotive and polished. Hemantda’s was much heavier and richer, so was Kishoreda’s. Talat saab’s was silkier and much easier-on-ear and Rafi sahab’s voice was off course an anti-thesis of the “Vidhwan” voice.
Musharraf saab (post 2754):
Superb post, as usual. As you have rightly pointed out, both these singers are legends and have been blessed by the Almighty abundantly, though in a slightly different manner. With Rafi sahab, it was the honey-dipped, emotive, velvet voice and the ability to interpret almost any type of song like a specialist of that particular genre; while with Ghantasalaji it was the mastery over classical and classically-oriented songs and a voice well-suited for such songs.
However like several other Rafians, I have a problem with many (not all) Ghantasala-fans here. The problem starts when they try to show that their favorite is the better of the two (on account of his greater classical grasp). Anyway, they don’t seem to have much success although many of our friends in the KK site have, apparently, become very silent about their own favorite and very noicy about the South legend (for reasons we all know).
By the way, I don’t consider Ghantasalaji to be un-paralleled when it comes to classical singing in South movies. Yesu Das sir enjoys an iconic status in this field and his voice (to me as well as a lot of non-Telugu listeners) is much more pleasant and easy-on-ear than Ghantasalaji’s. If you want, I can link some of his film classical songs in this thread or else you may search the youtube for Yesu Das classical songs. I also think that Manna Da’s film classical prowess is comparable to Ghantasalaji’s.
Dear friends,
The Rafi-Ghantasala debate seems to continue endlessly. However, I do not agree with the nature of arguments that are put forwarded here. Musical analysis or theories can not be established by stories but by stating hard facts. Firstly I would request Bhushanji and Abhishekji to go through my posts 2595 and 2700 again wherein I have tried to make an analysis and a qualitative judgement between these two great singers. What I believe in is that “Facts are stronger than fictions”.
Rafi’s undisputed supremacy and greatness in the area of playback singing in the whole of India has already been established by the unprecedented fame,recognition and popularity that Rafi had received both during his lifetime and continuing even after thirty one years after his death. His legendary songs are still equally popular in the present as they were in the past. This is now a history and an established truth that no amount of story or fiction can undo. And Rafi earned this position in the highest and the most competitive national forum of Indian playback forum, i.e. Bollywood amid tough competition. It was not granted to him through Grace or charity. He was the legend of the of the legends in the domain of playback singing.
However in our admiration of Rafi we do not hesitate to recognize the outstanding performance of Ghantasala in the Telegu music world. His mastery in classical renditions was indeed matchless and he dominated the telegu playback world for long thirty years that was indeed remarkable. We too have great respect for this great legendary singer who earned considerable fame and recognition in the regional forum. As I have already stated that in classical renditions he was simply unparallelled.
However success in playback singing does not depend upon classical mastery. There are other factors too.Rafi’s God gifted voice coupled with his versatility to sing all types filmy songs soon took him to the peak of his playback singing career where no other playback singer could reach. So it is no wonder that he is regarded as the greatest playback singer of all times.
My above stipulations are not based on any story but on hard facts.
Now referring to the story of Bhushanji I would say that such stories can hardly be taken as a yardstick for any qualitative judgement.
Now for argument purpose, let us assume that Rafi took some tips from Ghantasala to sing Telegu songs. What is so unnatural about it it? Any one singer can take guidance from another singer if he wants to sing in a language that is not his mother tongue. And please note Rafi was a highly humble man and was not miser in praising a fellow singer. That does not in any way make him less that the person whom he praises.
At the end I would like to say again that let us give the the due appreciation to any singer on the basis of historical facts. Both Rafi and Ghantasala were great musical luminaries each excelling in their individual domains. There should not be any attitude to undermine any one of them.
Regards.
Posts 2731, 2732,2733.Binu Nair, Zaheendanish, andrea correa sahabs.
I am so glad to have commentators like you people, who very politely, humbleness and gentleness have rightfully conveyed the feelings of rafi sahab fans, that keeps on being hurt by ghantasalans.
Truely said that the must leave at once. we are very much bothered by their continual poking of their noses in this site dedicated to the legendry rafi sahab. rightly said in one of the posts above that they praises rafi sahab at times but uses words like rafi was “almost” as good as ghantasala. This word almot clearly shows that as our legend is just near to theirs. i have heard ghantasala, i don’t understand telugu, but after this discussion i have wasted a lot of time hearing him, but believe me, i was not impressed at all. the voice has never been anything near melody. It sounds as if someone after lot of crying, sings a song, the nasal tone, the vibration of the voice is there. mukesh and talat mehmood’s voice also had a mild touch of such tones also but their voices were very rich and pure, but ghantasala voice lacks that silkiness and smoothness and melody which has been the hallmark of rafi sahab. Ghantasala voice was rough and had lot of vibration which may suite classical singing but obviously not play back singing. In nut shell, it seems to be a deteriorated voice. May be in telugu such type of songs and such type of voice is liked. in hindi, the voice of hemant kumar or a mixture of him and mannadey might make the voice of ghantasala. As far as classical singing is concerned, there are far better classical singers who sing more”classically’ and with highest notes than ghantasala. Do they think that he could have matched Ustad bare ghulam ali khan and ustad nazakat ali khan, and for instance udtad amir khan, never.
Now i have heard one of ghantasala song, the link provided by a true ghantasalan in disguise of rafi sahab fan, mr abhishek, a classical song of gs. I was surprised that the so called greatest singer of theis was short of breath on so many times during the entire song. in order to confirm this, i listened to his so many songs where i noticed the same short coming, that his breath is very short, but he conceals it very intelligently and fault is obvious on carefully listening. Now the false allegation about rafi sahab complimenting ghantasala on chal ud ja re panchi, telugu version. they will never provide the link or the proof. as such does not
Rafi was a global singer not northern singer, but ghantasala was regional singer, though, a southern singer. Rafi sahab is the love of millions throughout the world, not only india, but ghantasala is known by telugu people only.
it is the business of the newspaper to create false stories and create scandels in order to sell their newspapers. hence this is no proof. rafi sahab is indeed the ‘alpha and the omega”, “the first and last word in music”. no body can reach his glory and greatness and others are in inferiority-complex making them sad, depressed and mentally abnormal. now dr sahab has done the same thing, initially praised rafi sahab a little and then showering too much praise on ghantasala, the agenda of his and others is so obvious. they can not by any mean can prove the superiority of their singer over the benchmark of singing, the legend amongst legends, muhammad rafi sahab, the one and the only.
2731 Binu Nair ji,
At least, i have never expected such post from the leader of rafi foundation and a rafi fan like you. Only one line clarification, as a carnatic classical expert can render any form of music in the world with ease, similarly a musician like ghantasala who had great command over sanskrit (his bhagavad geetha is extremely popular), the divine language, can render any language with ease. Sanskrit is king of languages.