True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
Dear Binu nair
I was referring only to comments of anil biswas and others and not kishore kumar’s comments on rafi – I hope you understand. Not only this, you know that manna dey had himself made a comment that i can sing any song, not only rafi. So please advise your friends to stop using wrong and derogatory language against legends (whom they do not know also) and ask them to respect great people.
Zaheendanish
One need not be a fan of ghantasala to be a musical lover. I am a true musical lover who enjoy true music let it be rafi, kishore or ghantasala or anybody else. You need not write lies here, you have admitted you do not know anything about ghantasala (which I mentioned many times) and still you have written all nonsense on the great legend of legends. And your friend hans writing all lies – as somebody said you will certainly face hell for your sins.
Dear Shri J K Bhagchandani and Binu nair
Kishore kumar could not be sidelined even in 77-80, despite the political issues he was involved in, which was the main reason for rafi to render songs, . When other man is facing trouble, it is not great to grab the opportunity and say I have again come back. Regarding anil biswas comments that rafi was not a singer at all, or others mentioning rafi as ok singer, needs to be taken seriously by rafi fans like you, not kishore fans like us as we know that and nothing new. Whoever says rafi is not great, you people have been gifted with a tongue to shout abuses at them, what one can say. No kishore fan can forget the nasty comments many rafi fans have made against kishore kumar long back in this forum, now same language is being used against the great ghantasala of the south. This mr. hans who should be called as bhains has made all nonsense comments, his parents are very unfortunate for having given birth to a mad man.
J K Bhagchandani and Binu nair
Kishore kumar could not be sidelined even in 77-80, despite the political issues he was involved in, which was the main reason for rafi to render songs, . When other man is facing trouble, it is not great to grab the opportunity and say I have again come back. Regarding anil biswas comments that rafi was not a singer at all, or others mentioning rafi as ok singer, needs to be taken seriously by rafi fans like you, not kishore fans like us as we know that and nothing new. Whoever says rafi is not great, you people have been gifted with a tongue to shout abuses at them, what one can say. No kishore fan can forget the nasty comments many rafi fans have made against kishore kumar long back in this forum, now same language is being used against the great ghantasala of the south. This mr. hans who should be called as bhains has made all nonsense comments, his parents are very unfortunate for having given birth to a mad man.
Thanks mr raj for agreeing to the truth and fact that – kishore kumar is a great fan of mohd rafi saaheb as millions of indians and others in the world do. now only tell us raj due to scarcity of names and fans who can write, are u the kishore fan toooooo. two in one i presume….
Abhishek
you are such a wily and cunning person whose similarity is exactly can be given to lizard which changes its colors according to the environment. you talk always about ghantasala and now you are denying that you are not ghantasala fan. what type of person are you? show yourself what are you. people like you should not venture to discuss about the legend like Mohd. Rafi. your knowledge is zero when it compare to rafi sahab. there are so many senior rafians are here who can give you fitting replies to your illogical remarks and shut your mouth with their reasonable and logical comments. you better decide now with whom you are. Do not be ” be pende ka lota”. You are simply pathetic and untrustworthy even to call as ghantasala fan. pity on you.
J K Bhagchandani ji and others
Mr. Binu nair has agreed to what I have said, I think that is enough for you. And regarding your statement who said the same – can you and your friends tell about the nonsense comments of some foolish rafi fans on ghantasala. Where is rafi who rehearsed kuhu kuhu some 30 times then also he failed, and where is ghantasala who rendered toughest songs like siva sankari etc. in only one take ? is there any comparison. Regarding salils comment etc. it is agreed by binu nair himself you can check.
this kishore kumar ka idiot fan named kishorefan does’nt know history of playback singing nor certain facts about kishore kumar nor the songs of the golden era .
Kishore da himself had in a letter to filmfare magazine wrote: I respect mohd rafi saab as as a great singer.” I am a fan of mohd rafi.” said the great singer.
Ill informed idiots – you all.
we will surely re-produce the letter written by kishore kumar ji in response to anil biswas’s cowardly and mischievious comment in an article piloted by raju bharatan to increase the sale of the magazine.
dogs do bark friends and we cant stop them – its not our job . so let them bark the wrong tree and be happy as usual and get their sleep (s).
this kishore kumar ka idiot fan named kishorefan does’nt know history of playback singing nor certain facts about kishore kumar nor the songs of the golden era .
Kishore da himself had in a letter to filmfare magazine wrote: I respect mohd rafi saab as as a great singer.” I am a fan of mohd rafi.” said the great singer.
Ill informed idiots – you all.
we will surely re-produce the letter written by kishore kumar ji in response to anil biswas’s cowardly and mischievious comment in an article piloted by raju bharatan to increase the sale of the magazine.
dogs do bark friends and we cant stop them – its not our job . so let them bark the wrong tree and be happy as usual and get their sleep (s).
So these morons who call themselves Kishore fans are back. They are back with their beaten wicked ways of anti-Rafi rhetoric. Look at the way how they have arrived in unison proving yet again of their evil designs, envious mind-set.
Raj,
Please tell me when, where and to whom Salil Chowdhary said that Rafi was not a singer at all. Please produce a single evidence of R.D Burman saying that Rafi was an OK singer. You are only exposing yourself and your paralyzed thought process. Salil Chawdhary may not be very fond of Rafi. He had different choice of singers for his different songs and accordingly he used variety of singers (Rafi included) but to say what you are attributing to Salilda is a lousy imagination of a moron like you. And by the way Mr. Raj, apart from Salil Chawdhary and Pancham there have been many other music directors also. They are Naushad, Madan Mohan, Roshan, S.D. Burman, Laxmi Kant Pyarelal, O.P. Nayyar, Shankar Jaikishan…etc. (the list is very long).. and I hope you know what these music directors thought of Rafi saab. If you do not know then please go and brush up you knowledge before opening your mouth. And if you are knowledgeable about that and choose to ignore that, then your is a typical case of selective amnesia, a common psychratic disorder found in many Kishore fans.
Kishorefan,
You said ‘kishore is certainly ahead of rafi, as bollywood would remember him as a man who dethroned rafi which he never gained again.’ Stop making these non-sensical sweeping statements which you can not prove. Kishore could sustain his dominance only for 5-6 years. Rafi ruled for nearly 20 years. Between 1977 and 1980 Rafi had regained his momentum. In 1980 he had the maximum number of hit songs. If you choose to ignore all that then you too fall in the same category as Raj as far as defective thought process is concerned.
Sandeep Srivastav:
The only reason Ghatansala finds mention in many posts is because of Ghatansala fans only. They only initiate discussions on this topis. As far as we are concerned, we are quite happy to discuss, celebrate, applaud, revere our Rafi saab.
-J.K. Bhagchandani
it is a fact that because of rafi saab mds like laxmi kant
pyarelal and other music directors came up.even in the
initial stage of rdb’s carrier,rafi saab helped him a lot.
at the same time it is true that during 1970s and 1980s
panchamda depend on kishoreji and the result was his
exit from the industry.also it is pitty to note kishore fans
are projecting him as number one singer who could not
bagg even a single national award.we have seen amithabji
sung for himself in the peak time of kishoreji and i think he
could have sung ‘oh kaike paan bana raswalaa” instead
of sung by kk.this is not the case of rafi saab.nobody is
dare to sing himself even dilip kumar or johnny walker.
after the sad demise of rafi saab kk got enough time to
prove himself a better singer than rafi saab atleast to
try a song like the great rafi saab number “pardha hei
pardha”.after the era of kk, we have seen singers like
udith narain,kumar saanu and sonu nigham came into
picture and with the help of new mds they could bring
back the golden era of hfm to some extent.the most
painful thing is a md like rdb was nothing at the time of
his last breath.this is because of only one reason – he
tried to vanish rafi saab by depending more on kk.
this post is addressed to raj
your posts are nothing but foolish and stupid remarks on the legend called mohd. Rafi, if you want to know about the greatness of Rafi, listen the songs of trio – Rafi-Naushad-Shakeel, you have to shut your dirty, filthy and unholy mouth forever. This site moderator is very generous to allow your filthy posts, you are so pathetic and miser lower than animal category. Who is Ghantasala we dont want to know, what all we want to know is that Rafi is the greatest singer for many years to come.
Salil chowdary the great music director of hindi film industry mentioned rafi was not a singer at all – CR and Pancham mentioned rafi as just an OK singer. These rafi fans are greater than salil and CR and pancham. Rafi and lata rated ghantasala greater than both of them. These rafi fans are greater than & far ahead of rafi and lata.
Same sort of foolish language was used for kishore fans when they proved kishore to be clearly superior to rafi, hence it is not a surprise to find such language to be used against the unique legend ghantasala, rafi fans have been gifted with use of such filthy language by birth, – do not know what their parents have taught them from childhood.
Before pointing a finger at kishore fans, know what you are doing here rafi fans. You have been continuously discussing about ghantasala like anything, because you know he is miles ahead of rafi as a singer and musician, so are resorting to foolish language, like you did earlier with kishore fans. You all are going to be in hell one day for such sins.
The so called foolish rafi fans unable to prove rafi’s superiority in any way before ghantasala’s superiority evidences produced by ghantasala fans are resorting to all ill conceived language, and it appears they know only such language to talk – this does not befit humans, i think they understand better. Even animals do not use such language.
Musharaff ji
I hope and know that you are not going to support any wrong language being resorted to by some foolish people in the guise of rafi fans. Your last para regarding sharing views with rafi lovers (genuine rafi music lovers are different sir) may lead to sharing views with ignorant people, so I request you to please take care my friend – a friendly advise. Mr. binu nair too has joined this list – it is a really big surprise, I do not know.
Musharaff ji,
Your post has come as a surprise which appears to be totally opposite to your earlier “honest and great posts” which I really appreciated as a genuine music lover. We have discussed lot about ghantasala earlier and hope there is not a strain in our relationship and decent discussions in future – I clarified i am not a ghantasala fan – hope you understand. You agree with me that no undecent language should be used against a legend, which is being resorted to by some foolish claiming rafi fans.
Next, kishore fans, welcome, but request is be gentle and do not give a spade to spade as you will be dealing with some dangerous people – take care.
2816 – Binu nair
We will decide based on how much k j yesudas will be remembered and discussed after 30 years of his death ? You will then know about your rubbish question.
Good kishore fan and raj ji,
These rafi fans have made ghantasala more famous than ghantasala fans by creating a record posts of around 2800 posts here (with more than 2000 posts only on ghantasala, which clearly highlights his unique greatness)
Certainly rafi was in a different league as compared to ghantasala i.e. a leauge which was quite inferior to ghantasala’s superior league.
Kishore is certainly ahead of rafi, as bollywood would remember him as a man who dethroned rafi which he never gained again.
Just learn how decent discussion is carried on from kishore forum, here all filthy mouths are pouring venom. Raj, you are correct, ghantasala is far ahead of rafi and kishore too.
or even kishore
No amount of argument can prove rafi to be any way superior or even nearer to ghantasala.
Kishore fans have stopped long back on discussion on ghantasala, which was a very decent discussion, here it is going on for years together no end and rafi fans point a finger at kishore fans.
Rafi fans were criticising kishore fans for discussing about ghantasala in kishore forum, what rafi fans are doing here ? They are discussing more about ghantasala than kishore fans in kishore forum. In this col. more than 2000 posts are on ghantasala where as in kishore forum it is only limited.
ghantasala, the biggest disappointment, the worst that has ever happened.
rafi sahab is miles ahead in each and every genre of music than him, even in classical singing. The colors he adds to the classical songs are unmatched by any-other singer living or dead, he is the ultimate genius, ghantasalans let you people burn yourself with jealousy, that you have and inferiority complex from the magical singing genius, rafi sahab.
I was thinking why these ghantasalans are over exaggerating so much about their “unknown” singer, then i got the joke. Look at the south-films, full of exaggeration. their most favorite actor rajni-kanth, he acts as he is some sort of indian superman. Alone he kills hundreds of people bare handed, if not thousands. look at the other heroes, doing super-natural things, in particular, the action heroes. Hence these south fans like hyperbole, and augmentations. They are doing the same with the poor-chap, by the name “g.sala,, giru”. But the most sad part of the story is he has thoroughly been defamed, a lot.
Out of these mere 3 songs, he has sung (because his fans are talking about them), i know that 2 of them are tunes stolen from hindi films music. as we all know that nothing can ever be better than the original. How can a thief can be better than the person whom he has theft, common sense. the greatest of ghantasalan song has nothing special in it, its a mediocre song. a young singer ‘pavan’, you can hear the song on youtube, has sung it much better way, his voice is more melodious, sweer, and surreli than ghantasala, (not like a man singing after lot of crying-the voice of g.sala). the changes which pavan has made in the song, takes it to such heights, never done before, you surely will forget the original. Moreover, yesudas voice is more sweeter and balanced than this unknown singer of telugu. nor siva sankari is a high pitched sound-its the same over exaggeration, which has been the hall-mark of ghantasalans. talking about classical songs, can they dare compare g.sala with singing sensations and fathers of classical-singing in india ‘ustad-bare ghulam ali khan, and ustaad abdul waheed’, nay, not in their wild dreams, and infact rafi sahab was the brilliant student of this great. once ustad barre ghulam ali khan said that thanks god, rafi chose for him play-back singing, had he chosen clssical singing as a profession he would have take over us and would have been much more famous than us. RAFI SAHAB is the “first and last word in singing”. He is the ultimate, most loved singer of india and the “legend of legends”.
Same list of people they tring there best to say mohd rafi is not the best but I like to adk them,do they think mohd rafi 2nd on there list? If not so compare your singer with who is 2nd on there list because for us mohd rafi is number one before one it is zero afet one it is two and that is there choice to go for zero or two.few days ago we lost great actor Shammi ji who was biggest fan of mohd rafi just I like ask if there any singer got a fan like mohd rafi got? Shammi ji with mohd rafi the magic they create in bollywood again I like to ask any one done the same magic in the world?not only we mohd rafi fans say shammi ji films got best songs to compare others actors…………
Somebody somewhere has rightly mentioned on you-tube that if lata is the nightingale of india, ghantasala is the “thirsty – crow” of telugu. Thirsty for fame, he is not being quenched with despite all the efforts of “salans”.
He is the “frog of the well”, his fans trying to bring him out of their but all their efforts are futile, as he slips back and is dropped again to his original place, where he actually belong to. Let him make noises from their”quacker, quacker, quacker!!!”
He is a regional malice, stuff, freak and things like that.
Rafi sahab is the benchmark, let this not-known singer be compared to him, as they feel so proud comparing him to the brightest star on music horizon, rafi sahab.
Dear Hansji,
You have very nicely elaborated the style and approach to the song Rafi made “Dil jo na kah saka” that has been quoted by Binuji. Actually Binuji’s contention that Ghantasala would not be able to sing 20% of this song is not without logic.There is a general misconception(or may be a strategy) among the Ghantasala fans who largely believe that with his classical edge Ghantasala would have sung all the songs of Rafi. But the basic point that they miss is that with his strong and coarse voice that was perfectly suited for rendition of pure classical songs Ghantasala would not have been able to generate that softness of the song “Abhi na jao chod kar”, or “Aise to na dekho”, that emotion of the song”Mere mehboob tujhe” or that boldness of the song”Kar chale hum fida jan tan sathiyon” that Rafi had created with his God gifted magical voice that was suited for all types of film songs. Many have attempted to sing the songs of Rafi including our distinguished Sonu Nigham, but was far from reaching Rafi’s standard. The fact is, to sing a Rafi’s number is one thing, but to sing it in equal standard of Rafi is completely another thing that no singer has been able to achieve. I have argued on these lines with the ghantasala’s fans in another site to remove their misconception.
I have also mentioned in my last post that success of playback singing does not depend entirely upon classical expertize. Rafi might not have been classically that versatile as Ghantasala was but had sufficient classical training to attempt songs like” Madhuban mey radhida” “nache man mora magan”, “Man tadpat har darshan” all of which became block busters.
Being unable to defeat Rafi on the basis of a comparison of mind blowing songs, the Ghantasalans have resorted to another tactics to demean Rafi by putting forward their so called “Three octave theory”. This is their attempt to divert the issue in an illogical way. Music lovers judge songs on the basis of their quality and not by inquiring in what octaves the singer has sung. I am confident that notwithstanding in how many octaves ghantasala has sung his songs, his songs could not match Rafi’s songs from any perspective of comparison.
My object to mention these points is to share my views with my fellow Rafi Lovers and to be prepared to counter any move from Ghantasala quarters logically and effectively.
Regards.
dear binuji,
i think yesudasji is more popular with melodious voice than
gantasalaji.kjy bagged 7 national awards including one for
a telugu movie and he is also so popular among telugu
speaking people. his sound has been recorded for almost
all of the indian languages.
Binuji,
Ghantasala is world famous in Andhra Pradesh, and now among the KK fans.
Who is more popular and well known???? dr K J Yesudas or Ghantasala.
pls tell me this and i will post more on this….
thanks
What a joke! a regional singer is competing with the national singer. And what are these dumb fools of G. Sala defending with mindless and baseless arguments. By now they might have clearly understood that Rafians will not keep quite if they go on malign the reputation of Rafi Sahab, we will strike back with strong force from all corners. They first enter this site in guise of rafi fans then slowly they started to show their original nature. Because of you, hello G. Sala fans, your idol had been getting abuses ever since you all exposed here. You do not have guts to face rafians. Now it is better for you all to take shelter in your G. Sala site and do something constructive work to develop it for G. Sala fans. You lost this battle, if ever you come back here this thread will become the “BATTLEFIELD” all rafians will strike you back with whatever resources they had in their minds.
I really appreciate the devout rafians for taking care of all these stubborn ghantasalans. they do not dare to come here now. If ever they come here they will get the fitting replies by rafians. This site belongs to Rafi Sahab and rafians have all the right to praise and talk about him. You do not have any right to proclaim the greatness of your singer here. For that you have your own site, you better do it theire. By the way how could you compare a regional singer to a national singer!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is it not a joke???????????
I have been saying from day 1 that Abhishek, Bhushan & Rafifan1 are ghantasalans, The addition of dr chandrashekar is a bit of surprise for me, may be he had disguised himself well. Now one all of them are “stripped”, we must be aware of them, because if one closely follow their comments, while praising rafi, they at the same time very intelligently, tries to defame him, like in one of the above post, abhishek all of a sudden said, ‘who says rafi had a feminine voice, his voice was manly'(words to that effect). Now, you see, nobody said such type of nonsense, but he himself tried to conveyed a wrong message to the people. All rafi admirers firmly believe that rafi has the most melodious, most sweet, most surreli awaz a man can ever have.
One other thing, poor ghantasala needed such type of fans who with all their efforts can not be able to bring the “frog out of the well”
abhishek – 2717
“You do not have proper knowledge of telugu or padyams,”
why you do not enlighten us about the padyams. what are they. that can be done. though you cant teach us telugu through this site. you are not telling what are padyams because you very well know that then all your claims regarding ghantasala will be proved false.
“why do you want to propogate false facts, specially in areas which you have no knowledge ?”
on what ground you are making that statement. is it your divine right to claim that without proving that others are giving false facts. in fact, it is you who are doing that and are stung that i am exposing you.
“Padyams are really difficult to sing, even classical experts fail there, that is true and many classical experts therefore, did not attempt them in telugu playback singing.”
under your divine sanction you are again reiterating totally false facts. in old times the principal source of entertainment was dramas enacted in villages, towns and cities. there were also religious songs sung in local gatherings in addition to the local songs sung in marriages and other entertainment parties. they were created by poets and sung by local artists and even common people with ease. such verses were there in every language and dilect. in your effort of imposing greatness on ghantasala you are making false claims that they were difficult to sing.
your saying that classical experts failed in singing padyams therefore they did not try to sing them in telugu playback singing defeats you on two counts. first it contradicts your claim that ghantasala did not have competition, second if this rule is applied to ghantasala then it can be said that he did not try hindi singing because he could not sing or found it difficult to sing hindi songs. even otherwise your claim is untenable because rarely any classical experts tried their hands in playback singing because they thought it too low for classical experts.
but you divine ghantasalans have the divine right of getting defeated and yet emerging victorious.
ghantasala simply utilised these old verses and their tunes, with slight modifications, to his advantage and you ghantasalans are trying to thrust greatness on him on this count.
“Well, no body stops you from writing anything, you are free to write even false and wrong things,”
till now it has been shown that this statement fits you ghantasalans and we rafians have accepted your divine right.
“but be true to your conscience at least as what you say is true or not.”
why you are talking again and again about conscience. is your conscience troubling you for taking cudgels against the greatest singer of all times. i am at least going with my conscience.
I clearly understood now what is the motive of the G. sala fans, they want to spread the greatness of G. Sala through Rafi site which they can not do it in their home site (G. Sala site) as it is dead like kishore site. They are just like “dar ke bhikari”, take whatever you want. “Yeh Rafi ka dar hai, yahan se koi bhi khaali haat nahin jata”. Even in his life of Rafi sahab he never left giving anybody asking for help. Now you all G. sala fans need “alms of reputation” for your idol through rafi site. take it and get lost. Never to come back here.
chandrasekhar – 2751
what was there in binu ji’s post that you are so upset. has he committed a sin, unless you think taking the name of ghantasala as sacrilege.
you wrote:
“as a carnatic classical expert can render any form of music in the world with ease, similarly a musician like ghantasala who had great command over sanskrit (his bhagavad geetha is extremely popular), the divine language, can render any language with ease. Sanskrit is king of languages.”
you have stated two propositions and both are lies. one lie cannot prove another. neither is it true that a carnatic expert can render any form of music. your panchayat members have already accepted that telugu padyams are very difficult to be rendered by even classical experts. so when these experts cannot even render their own language well how can they dream of rendering in world languages.
the second statement that ghantasala had great command over sanskrit is also a white lie. he just sang selected shlokas of bhagwadgeeta and sang them really badly. in sanskrit, and particularly in geeta pronunciation is the main thing and ghantasala made a joke of singing shlokas. ask any sanskrit expert and he would confirm the same.
and even if he sang them well that does not qualify him for making a super singer of all the languages. if that is accepted then any person who is a master of singing sanskrit shlokas is to be anyday taken a much better singer than all the singers who have lived till date. so singers like rafi were toiling so hard in vain, they should have simply learned and sang some sanskrit shlokas to be called great.
you divine ghantasalan panchayat people are still divine after making such foolish comments. and you day in and day out are busy in making such senseless comments, yet you continue to label the comments of rafians as foolish. really you have divine sanction.
one more thing. when some time ago some rafian argued that rafi who sang so beautifully every song given to him would have sung songs covering 3 or more octaves, you people continued shouting that ‘would have done’ does not count and what counts is ‘what was done’. now you come with an argument that ghantasala ‘would have’ sung every song in the world with ease because he had mastery over sanskrit.
still i bow to you divine people, because you have every right to say something and then contradict that yourself. this right you have got right from the heavens.
binu ji – 2731
what a selection of a song. ‘dil jo na kah saka’ created waves when it hit the market. rafi was a master in bringing out music from a word itself. see how he sings ‘hum’ at the start of ‘hum bekhudi men tumko’ and ‘dil’ at the start of this song ‘dil jo na kah saka’. he brings out different effects from the other dil which he utters when he sings ‘wohi raj-e dil’.
roshan also used the special effects of bringing out echo effect – in this film – when the camera covers pradeep in a long shot, not only in this song but also in the other song ‘ mohabbat se dekha khafa ho gaye hain’
musharraf ji
rightly said rafifan 1 has exposed himself as a ghantasalan. his misdemeanours have forced a gentle person like you to criticise him.
posts 2795 – 2800
the whole of the ghantasalan panchayat (now rafifan 1 has officially joined them so panchayat is complete with abhishek, bhushan, chandrasekhar and vishal as the other 4) has lined up to demand closure of the thread.
first they started demeaning rafi and used abusive language and now when they seem to be cornered by somewhat concerted effort by some rafi fans they seek a respectable exit.
this thread is not the property of ghantasalans. this thread is a long standing thread where people discuss rafi and his songs. it is people like you who disturb the peace of the website.
you yourself has admitted that the ghantasal site does not permit anything to be written against him. it is your good luck that the moderator here is no dictator like the moderator of that site. now you want to control this site also. you will seek to close the thread where ghantasala is criticised, though it is you who started all this.
vishal -2691
you wrote:
“Both were equally well matched in almost all areas of singing with an exception of 2-3 genres like classical, padyams, sanskrit slokas, where ghantasala was superior (due to his rigorous practise of the genres mixed with specialised classical skills) , though rafi too had attempted the genres in his own style and range.”
you also wrote:
“The kind of arguments which some rafi fans are making does not make any sense”
you accuse rafi fans of making arguments without sense. you mean to say including telugu padyams and sanskrit slokas in the list of genres of playback singing is a sensible argument. you all ghantasalans are divine people and anything said by you is sensible.
how did you match rafi and ghantasala in the other genres. just through 3 songs. and how do you say that rafi attempted the genres of padyams and shlokas in his own style. can you give some examples. or just making wild statements is enough, because everything you ghantasalans say is divine and fact.
and only if you say ghantasala is better than rafi that fact stands proved beyond doubt.
dr.chandrasekhar – 2775
two conclusions can be drawn from your post. either you are totally dumb that you do not understand my post or you are trying to act too smart.
i believe you are acting too smart. this has been the hallmark of all your and your associates’ propaganda against rafi. to catch some out of context quote and say irrelevant things so that the debate gets diverted.
in the statement you quote, i had opposed bhushan’s blatantly degrading statement that rafi enjoyed support of only scores of people. all you ghantasalan pachayat people (now you are five) have claimed that you are balanced people but none of the other 4 have criticised bhushan for making that claim. and when i protested against that you all have come in support of the culprit.
now tell me where in the hindu article it is said that rafi enjoys the support of just scores of fans. that article would have been relevant only if that was written in the article. in fact, there is not a word about rafi in that article.
stop acting smart and show some facts if you have.
abhishek – 2776
so you are some kind of god who knows what runs in the conscience of people. stop these tricks and grow up. dont care about my knowledge of the artists. i know enough about rafi to argue about him and i dont feel a need to know all about ghantasala. if my comments appear to be fun to you then you should enjoy instead of telling me that.
vishal – 2777
you jumped into supporting chandrasekhar without knowing facts. as i said it is the hallmark of ghantasalan panchayat to make such statements you expect from me.
one thing i would like to say though. the hindu is a good newspaper but not the no. 1 daily of india. and also the article was published just in the regional section of that newspaper ‘metro plus hyderabad’. even otherwise publishing of any praise by some local correspondent does not sanctify anything and what is said by him does not become fact.
Kutty ji
That who popular is a bogus site, many people like you are being carried away. One vote gives money to that operator who is making money by fooling all innocent people like you, whoever knows this fact will stop voting there (for any artist)
Dear Ahmed Kutty Saab,
Very well said. In the horizon of playback singing Mohammed Rafi shall always remain the brightest star for all times to come.
And Rafifanji, post 2786, it is high time that you take off the mask of Rafifan 1 and change it into Ghantasala 1 to be honest.
regards
Bhushan, Abhishek, Vishal and Chandrasekhar
you all ” ek hi thaili ke chatte batte ho” you are all in disguise, whom you are bluffing, and creating here problem without reason, your posts are the clear evidence that you people have ill-will about Rafi Sahab and always showing the prejudice. your idol is great to you not to us. Whatever you want to spread the comments and baseless arguments do it your idol site.
The final decision is ‘ RAFI SAHAB IS THE GREATEST OF ALL SINGERS IN THE WORLD”. there ends the matter, go back to you home. Game over.
bhushan – 2773 & 2774
Oh! you do not have anything against me or anybody, but, everything you say is against rafi, which is not acceptable to us.
dont make claims on the basis of your wild imaginations. i have not read the post of any viswanathan nor do i know whether there is such a person present or not. his emergence may be part of your procedure to create evidence and then allude to that to prove your point. so there is no question of my believing the info provided by that viswanathan.
the article of mr. swaminathan was first posted in 2001 and posted in this website in 2002. he was as per his own words 78 years old in 2001. if he is not appearing even after so much controversy over his article – which has been the longest standing article and is regularly discussed – it can easily be presumed that he must be no more.
“for your information hans ji. I am myself a carnatic classical musician and can better judge who was what.”
you must have heard the hindi saying ‘apne munh miyan mithoo banna’. your self praise just made me remember that and indulge in a hearty laugh.
dear vishalji,
is there any activity is going on there in kishore kumarji’s
site?
as per the information available there the last article
about him appeared on 19.12.2010!
sir,you can see what is going on in this site.the subjects
about rafi saab is endless compared to any other singer
in india.
there are lot of differences between rafi saab and other
singers.the special place rafi saab is getting in the hearts
of rafi fans all over the world nobody can even dream of
it.that is why in “the most loved people – musician’s”
category rafi saab got 1,22,000 votes compared to the
nearest singer kk got less than 17,000 votes.