True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
Kishore kumar used to do great mimics and people used to like them. I myself enjoyed kishore ji at a musical event in Abu dhabi many years back and had an opportunity to meet kishore dan and his whole family in a tent near to the stage at the gulf hotel n the beach.
but, here i find this kishorefan, doing his antics with nobody to cheer. he really has cut a very sorry figure. kishorefan must go back to the kishore kumar site and resurrect it other than throwing mud which alas falling on him.
Pls go to the hindu news paper link provided by haldar ji in post 3087.
i also wish that these few kk fans had some brains toooo to discuss and analyse good music. they are by their stupid antics, also demeaning kishore kumar.
sorrry, toda padh kar aur seek kar aaayiye than parroting oft reapeated lines. and telling you kishore fan that in the next 100 years there will not be any post up to the mark 3099 – of your favourite singer.
that’s the true fact………..
Hans babu
this was my honest opinion. I have been an avid listener of HFM for over 30 years. If he had a breathing issue, it is fine. But all factors need to be considered if someone stakes a claim to be the greatest and this is a flaw that cannot be overseen. Also, if he struggles to retain a high pitch or level of singing throughout a song that demands this, it is a limitation. The sweetness in his voice does not match Rafi’s by any yardstick. I don’t even know if he has the versatility of rafi to sing in his various genres of music or the ability to modulate his voice to fit various telugu actors perfectly over his period of dominance in telugu industry. He seems to be a sincere singer and is likeable too. But that’s where it stands for me.
hense hansji has proved the unmatched supremacy of rafi. We ahve inface not noticed mahadevika last post where she has proved with evidence that rafi ruled the 70’s as well, and his songs were more popular then also.
somebody has mentioned the lost of sheen in rafi voice, in early 70’s. i strongly object & tend to disagree here. i can quote several songs of rafi sahab of 70 till 81′ where i think rafi sahab sounded the best in his whole career. i’ll be mentioning all these songs if somebody asks for.
rafi was brilliant from start till end, his voice remained flawless throughout his career.
ganesh bhai kya keh rahe ho.
dheere-dheere bolo kahin ghantasalans na sun len, warna apki khair nahin. abhi toot padenge ‘kayi jism magar ik jaan wale’ bhai alag-alag namon se.
actually, it is good that gs sang only telugu version which had different lyrics. he would have found it very hard if he had to sing the hindi version, because swaminathan iyer rightly said that singing south songs is easier because of the absence of ‘h’ factor. he could not compete with rafi even in telugu version.
now see the following excerpts which were posted by ramakrishna at post no 662 and he was an admirer of ghantasala.
“probably you are not aware that while ghantasaala garu had developed respiratory problem, for a number of songs he was supported by ramakrishna garu, when ghantasaala garu sang one line the next line was sung by ramakrishna garu. the gap between ghantasaala garu & spb was filled by ramakrishna garu , whom time has shunted out from the field due to various politics.”
dear musharrafji,
i have read your fine posts, but these people, who are actually ‘laton ke bhoot’ dont take notice of gentlemanly posts.
the main reason i referred to mr. venkatadri’s posts was the fact that he is not at present active and he had very beautifully rattled all the gs fans when they started the topic for the first time. he was also like you a whole gentleman but he had also to resort to some hard words.
we should all contribute whatever we know now and we are doing nothing special if we can defend the great human being from these rogues. as a lot of rafians are active these days, this transfer of knowledge will enable other rafians to take on these intruders who sneak in like dacoits of ‘alibaba and 40 chor’ unannounced, when you, i or others who are debating may be busy somewhere else. i am working hard on this theory, because at present i have enough leisure.
and keep on posting. every rafian loves your write-ups.
Despite providing solid evidence by a national daily the hindu about ghantasala’s peerlessness and greatness, this hans is telling all lies by carrying out a foolish research, as he has been doing in the past few days. If he considers the hindu paper information to be verified, same information for rafi also is absolutely wrong (ref. of post haldar 3086)
P Haldar ji – 3086
That was a excellent article by “the Hindu” for mohd. rafi. Such evidences need to be put up and rafi fans like you are only capable for that. The unique greatness of mohd. rafi is clearly brought out there and is quite wonderful and marvellous. Rafi is the greatest ever among all the singers as mentioned in the article.
Not to compare, as Mr. Hans was mentioning about ghantasala and his songs and dominance , similar article appears for him too again by “the Hindu”
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/mp/2003/02/11/stories/2003021100450100.htm
which confirms to the facts presented by ghantasala fans.
Just heard the telugu version of “Chal ud ja re panchi”. Was a bit surprised…maybe my expectations were set based on the earlier reviews by some members of this forum. My 2 cents…the singer (Ghantasala) did start off quite well and ended it on a great note…no doubts here. But overall it was not as impactful as the Rafi version as the crux of the song was not as delivered to the same effect. He seems to be more comfortable in the lower notes, although he does manage to reach the highs albeit with evident effort and loss of tonal clarity. But the main thing that stuck me was the breath control…that seems to be his Archilles heel. Also, the sweetness in Rafi’voice was very evident as I heard this back to back. T.Sounderarajan (Tamil singer) is a lot more comfortable in the higher notes than Ghantasala.
In short, apart from the breath control issue, the difference was that Rafi could maintain the high level of singing from start to end more consistently.
Also heard the “Siva Shankari”..was not really impressed here. Sounded similar to Manna Dey’s ‘Jhanak Jhanak tori” -same raag?? but Manna’s was a lot more impressive…to me.
Binu nair , your people i.e rafi fans have no respect for your words
Well, see these rafi fans say do not talk about ghantasala here, what they are doing ? Doing research on ghantasala and his songs, what a scene ?
Hans , The next post by Mr. vasu clarifies the doubts of Mr. Venkatadri’s post that ghantasala never copied any hindi songs and was not interested in that and you have not quoted that.
And this post confirms, How mr. venkatadri could not stop his inner feelings towards ghantasala, though mentioning reluctantly.
b.venkatadri Says:
December 14th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
Friends,
As I always said, Ghantasala is another divine singer like Rafi Saab, but did not get his due in terms of publicity, etc. But, I also always said that Ghantasala is my second best singer out of all male and female singers, after Rafi Saab who is my Monarch of singing!
Now, even at the expense of sounding immodest, let me say that I heard and enjoyed almost all of Ghantasala’s songs since my childhood, even his innumerable Private songs and also his many rare and lesser-heard gems.
Of course, as far as Rafi Saab is concerned, I know, heard and enjoyed almost all his songs (even the rarest ones) that he sang until 1970. (Mind you, I have no time, nor interest in Film Music after 1970, be it Hindi or Telugu and for damn good reason!)
Now, coming to the point, many comparisons are taking place here, but in unscientific and somewhat irrational way! If some people pardon me, the comparisons here are akin to a blind man comparing two elephants and concluding profoundly that one of the elephants’ diameter is a couple of centimeters more than that of the other! Because the blind man could feel only the two trunks, thought that an elephant is nothing but a trunk and found one ‘elephant’ (actually only the trunk) has a higher diameter!
Much the same way, some people are making out as if “Siva Sankari Sivananda Lahari” is the song for which Ghantasala is a greater singer. The fact is that he has much better renditions such as “Madi Sarada Devi Mandirame”, “Pushpa Vilapam”, etc. to talk of.
Next, when one compares two singers, one takes into account all kinds of songs, classical, semi-classical, romantic, light, sombre, etc. Not just one genre of songs such as “Sivasankari”. It is a different point that even on that just one type of songs, Rafi Saab has many classics such as “Madhuban Me Radhika”, “Man Mora Bawra”, “Baat Chalt Nayi Chunari Rang Daali” and many more.
But, as someone too was mentioning earlier, Ghantasala scores much less compared to Rafi Saab in versatility, what with Rafi Saab’s classical, semi-classical, romantic, comedy, children’s, ghazals, patriotic, qawali, stylish/modern, melancholy, etc. Mind you, Ghantasala too is quite versatile in absolute terms, but not anywhere near the stupendous versatility of Rafi Saab. Besides, in the area of voice modulation and voice variation too, Rafi Saab is ahead of Ghantasala, who too incidentally is quite an expert in these.
Finally, in fairness to Ghantasala, I need to say one other thing. Ghantasala ws not as fortunate as Rafi Saab to have had such great Composers/MDs to sing for. Again, while Telugu MDs of those days were also great, their Hindi counterparts were much ahead of them in talent.
Next, for God’s sake, please do not ever mention Rafi Saab’s Telugu songs for comparison as he had sung them with great reluctance and that too during a period when his voice had already started to lose its sheen (around 1969/70).
Lastly, comparison of two greats such as Ghantasala and Rafi Saab has to be based on the sum-total of the career and all the songs of each of them. Not by highlighting a song or two in isolation.
Venkatadri
to rafi lovers
excerpts from post no 574 of mr. vekatadri
“Incidentally, just one small, but important, point. All the Telugu MDs including Ghantasala (Ghantasala is as much an MD as a singer!) used to closely follow all the old Hindi songs and used to copy them in their Films many a time. In this, Ghantasala was a forerunner.
It also so happens that 90% of such songs that he copied from HFM for his Films were by Rafi Saab.
Only some examples:
1.”Prema Kosame Wala Lo Padene Paapam Pasi Vadu” (patala Bhairavi) from Rafi Saab’s “Suno Suno Ae Duniya Walon Bapu Ki Yeh Amar Kahani” (Copied both the Mukhda and Antara)
2.”Samsaram Samsaram Prema Sudha Teeram” (samsaram–MDs:Ghantasala & Susarla) from Rafi Saab’s “Yeh Zindagi Ke Mele” from Film:Mela
3.”Jayammu Nischayammu Ra Bhayammu Ledu Ra” (Sabash Ramudu) from Rafi Saab’s “Kadam Badhaye Ja nazar”
There are many more of this nature from early 50’s right upto the early 70’s.
I will post a complete list (over 35 to 40 songs) later.
But, the point here is that it was Ghantasala who used to closely view Hindi Film Music and its MD’s/Singers. Rafi Saab was a great favorite of both Ghantasala and NTR. Rafi Saab and rest of the HFm hardly ever needed to be inspired by or copy from Ghantasala songs.
So, the above proves two points:
1. Ghantasala, though a very great singer, was just known to Telugu people like you and me. Even Tamil/Kannada/Malayalam folks do not know him.
2. Even your great favorite Ghantasala used to be inspired only by HFm and especially Rafi Saab.”
I guess this one person whoever he maybe acting as GS fan with whatever name he is assuming and playing with different names, he is one and the same, perhaps he may be suffering from multiple personality syndrome. Even I have strong sixth sense that this one person coming in different names, posing himself as GS fan. Look at the diction of words, writing style is almost similar to one another. The similarity should not be in such a proximity. Therefore it is futile to arguing with GS fans as they have been headstrong and not in a position to accept the truth. GS nasha is dancing on their heads. Leave them on their pathetic condition.
Dear friends,
I’m pleading everyone not to use foul language on this forum. I’m very disappointed that some people are using ethnic slurs — whatever you do, please do not target any singer because of his ethnicity, religion or caste. As I’ve said before, comments from a few people won’t affect Rafi’s fame or popularity. Read the following article from the Hindu:
http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article540193.ece
Kishore fans, I’ve attended several of your guru’s concerts. Perhaps you do not know that he was one of the biggest Rafi fans. During his leisure time, he used to listen to Rafi’s songs. Please try to show some respect to your guru’s guru.
Peace!
P. Haldar
We are just “hands to mouth” & fed up with both ghantasala & kishore kumar. we do not want to know about them. the only singer we want to read about here is the legendary rafi. the fans of both these singers are very humbly requested to leave us alone, plz,
regards,
——–
jugdesh
bhushan
you wrote:
“Will anybody believe the figures you have quoted i.e. 8 movies in first 11 years.”
do you not have any brains or are you purposely trying to divert the debate. read my first post in which i gave figures. there i had said that he sang 193 songs in 59 films in the first 11 years. 8 films were those which were not included in the website and were in the compilation. if you add these 8 films then it comes to 59 films in 11 years. dont try to fool others.
i have given the figures to counter your claim that he dominated for 3 decades. so it is your duty to substantiate your claim. no where in the site it is written that the list of songs is a fraction of the total no of songs gs sang.
the headnote claims that the errors and omission in the compilation of subbarayudu have been removed.
if you come tomorrow claiming that rafi sang only 500 songs then i would provide figures if i have to counter your claim. your fraudulent claims have been busted already.
after my post 3078 all of you three again appeared within 23 minutes. do you make contact before posting or you post from the same desk.
I think Challa subbrayudu’s research is done in mid 80’s & he just found whatever songs he could find. The website had listed only few songs that too upto 1960, and scores of hit films and songs are missing from that list and moreover that list does not cover any tamil, kannada or malayalam films in the site. Padyam is also taken as a song in telugu films and hundreds of padyams have been sung in telugu films. Only in one film sri krishna rayabharam some 135 padyams are there (this film is on G Site but covers only few padyams from that film), by the way hans ji you say information on ghantasala site is authentic then you should also agree that it says ghantasala was the greatest singer that ever was.
Dear Hans
When I asked you to do research in a way I suggested, why are you asking me to do research ? It is for you to find out the authenticity of my claim by doing research in the way I suggested. I had requested you to post such facts after you have conducted the research in a way I suggested. Will anybody believe the figures you have quoted i.e. 8 movies in first 11 years. can anybody believe that (when i asked you to do research you are putting the same to me). Just please have a statistics of films released in all the languages and check the titles who was the playback singer. You have seen the Hindu paper and how can a national daily carry such facts ? Anyhow, your post does not prove anything, as no body will believe that and you cannot even convince anybody on that.
bhushan
why dont you do that which you are suggesting to me and bring the whole facts and figures. this is a big lie that they are only sample songs. most of the songs of that period have been covered there.
you say the research is already done and established. so bring the results and prove me wrong instead of making false claims.
you may have read the head note of that page. the figures have been taken from Sree Challa Subbaraayudu’s compilation, “Ghantasaala Gaana Charitha”. the list includes movie nos as given in that book and only 26 nos are missing. out of these only 8 movies have not been listed upto the year 1955. 8 movies and 32 songs even if added to the first 11 years will not make
any difference to my theory that his domination did not start before 1956. the remaining 18 movies pertain to the period 1956 to 1960.
i agree that there may be more songs of ghantasala even after publishing of that book. but what difference does it make to the fact that gs fans have been spreading canards.
your posts have given me another idea which had not entered my mind when i was analysing the gs info. this whole list includes his filmy songs recorded in tamil, kannada and malyalam. so his songs of telugu are much less in number.
so next time come with figures.
Hans – incomplete research – rather only a sample research and only a rock from a mountain you have collected. Need to walk through the entire mountain to know about it in entirety.
Hans ji -3075
Website of ghantasala have put up a very few songs – there are many songs missing there in 40’s and 50’s & after 60’s many songs are there. The hindu paper information is correct – a live interview in 1971 in all india radio can be heard in the site – where ghantasala himself speaks – the actual number of songs recorded to have been sung by gs are at 14800 as claimed in many articles (all languages put together including padyams, private songs, slokas and classical concert songs etc. etc.) But the common belief is put at around 10,000 plus songs. Can you point out any singer who was leading in the south in 50’s and 60’s other than ghantasala ? Please do research on that.
I would request you to please have a discussion with the singers of yester years, p b srinivas, p suseela, s p bala, k j yesudas etc. to know the correct things, hans ji.
Even in hindi rafi claimed to have sung 28000 songs (wikipedia states that ) means on an average even 4 songs in a film should go to 7000 films in 36 years in hindi fillm industry – how far the logic can be correct – the wikipedia further states as per available records only 4500 songs were recorded by rafi.
Dear Hans
Those are only sample songs available from the GS website – Every week you can hear 2 songs in the website, which will not be found in the list displayed there . Please do research on how many films were released in Andhra Pradesh, Tamilnadu, Karnataka, and Malayalam (here very few songs) – in 50’s and 60 ‘s – check the titles in those films who was the singer -the research is already done and established – you need to do a proper research before arriving at false figures.
The most reliable evidence for you will be – you can get in touch with S P Balasubrahmanyam, playback singer who was a direct evidence to ghantasala’s supremacy and dominance – you can hear directly from his mouth, after doing this research and discussion with spb, you just put up a post of this kind – a sincere request.
now, we would look at the figures of ghantasala.
these figures i have taken from his own site. so the responsibility of their corretness does not lie with me. only the analysis made by me will be mine. the website of gs has given his songs upto 1960 due to copyright purposes. so i will analyse figures upto that period.
here goes the figures:
year films songs year films songs
1945 01 01 1946 01 01
1947 02 05 1948 03 05
1949 05 30 1950 06 22
1951 03 09 1952 05 26
1953 08 17 1954 12 32
1955 13 45 1956 17 85
1957 23 113 1958 20 77
1959 26 92 1960 25 107
gs fans say that gs dominated telugu play back singing for 3 decades until his death and their was no competition to him during this period and rafi had always competition. as per this theory gs should have dominated right from the start i.e. 1945.
now take a look at the figures. for 4 years gs was just about non-existent. he sang just 12 songs in 7 films during this period. from 1949 till 1955 he was struggling to gain domination. he sang 181 songs in 52 films during these 7 years. out of these also he sang at least (i am saying at least because his site does not give details of in how many was he md and i have got figures for that from imdb.com) 67 songs in 16 films in which he himself was md. so for the first 11 years he was never near dominance, what to talk of having no competitors.
so he can be said to have dominated from 1956 onwards. i have figures which can show that he did have competitors who sang a substantial no of songs during the period from 1956 to 1960. but they i will give if gs fans demand. so the question remains when his domination ended. for 1961 to 1974 i have relied on figures of imdb.com which is a reputed site for info on films, but their figures cannot be said as final. but they are at least enough to show a trend.
as per imdb.com no of films in which gs sang came down substantially from 1968 onwards. no of films he sang in from 1968 to 1974 is given in the following seqence:- 9;9;6;7;6;5;1.
if we derive the no of songs on the basis of the average of 4 songs per film, he sang 172 songs in this seven year period. which means an average of less than 25 songs per year and that cannot be taken as dominance. this shows that domination of gs ended at least from 1968 onwards. (here i may say that i am subject to correction because the figures are not taken from gs website).
so now it transpires that gs dominated telugu cinema at the most for 12 years (actual figures may curtail even this period). and exposes the extent to which the gs fans were spreading canards. they had referred to a ‘hindu’ newspaper article which also said the same things of 3 decades domination and also claimed gs sang more than 10000 songs. as per these figures gs sang 667 film songs in 16 years ( and this figure is faulty because every sanskrit slika sung by him in films has been taken as a separate song – at least they cannot be included in telugu songs). even if we double this figure for the remaining 14 years, he would have sung around 1350 songs.
to binuji and others demanding colosure of thread,
binuji has given fine views on the subject. and one thing which he has most importantly raised is that the other topics are suffering due to over-engagement in this thread. this point was also raised earlier in the thread. and this is a valid point.
but there is another side to it. this would appear to the onlookers a escapist approach. rafi detractors can only expose themselves and any amount of propaganda can not reduce the love and respect rafi commands in millions of his followers.
there has been one positive aspect of this debate that rafians have felt stung and united as never before in condemning the detractors. if anything our love for our idol has increased.
actually such threads bring out the best of the views of rafians. you will find that same trend in all controversial threads. everybody makes studies and research to reply them, which strenghthens the learning process. so this is another positive aspect of it.
and mahadevika and others are still discussing songs and qualities of rafi. they should not be deprived of their right to participate.
i hope binuji and others would understand this and take it positively.
reply to post no. 3071
I fully agree with Binu ji on this
In fact, I have stopped visiting this site, thanks to the crap and nonsense which some ‘ shameless’ jokers are posting here.
There are chaps who are ashamed of their own names and post nonsense on this site under pseudonames
As Binu said, is there a moderator for this site? is he trying to encourage such comments on this site so that more people visit the site?
if that is the case, he is totally mistaken. Ardent rafi fans, on whose strength the site would have survived this far, will just ignore the site.
We visit this site to read about Rafi Saab and NOT TO HEAR SOMEONE ELSE TRUMPETING KK OR GHANTASALA
We are not bothered about these two stalwarts. They are great in their own sense. Their fans can go any such site dedicated to them if they want to trumpet about their idols
how can a moderator of a site allow an individual operating under a false name to post a comment on a site? This is against the ethics of internet usage
Dear Moderator, this site is losing its sanctity thanks to such mischief mongers whom you are tolerating and promoting
Please do something to regulate such activities and mainain the dignity and sanctity of this great site which is dedicated to the greatest singer of all time in The Indian music industry.
Saifullah
Dubai
50,000 music and mohd rafi lovers read http://www.mohdrafi.com each month whereas not eve 5 posts can be seen on their favourite singers site.
we all understand the frustrations, anger, insecurity, direction less and confused reactions of these few, few kk and g.salans.
jealousy ka koyi dawa nahi banega………….jealous souls.
one of the foremost responsibility of the ‘moderator’ is to uphold, maintain the sanctity of mohdrafi.com site.
many of the over 50,000 readers are aghast and miffed that such parochial, sectarian and untrue accounts are being posted in the sacred mohd rafi site about the singing god rafi saheb.
we are missing / missed good articles by mohd rafi lovers and also losing some genuine mohd rafi lovers “who” are aghast by the flow of mud and muck in to this sacred site of mohd rafi lovers. sanctity of the site has been thrown to the winds many a times.
this is my view from the ground level dear moderator.
the purpose of the site is being misused by zealous and parochial fans of kishore kumar and ghantasala. the article : True voice – Mohd Rafi has served it’s purpose, lived its existence and now needs to be put on the archives.
the world is today celebrating the music of mohd rafi and his human qualities. only last weeek a member of parliament in the lok sabha strongly demanded that mohd rafi should be decorated with the bharat ratna award by the govt.
thousands and hundreds of mohd rafi musicals are happening every other day. there is no radio stations which does not have a mohd rafi song for more that 15 minutes duration or less.
the two selfish fans of kk or the three ghantasalans – cannot see the glory of mohd rafi and hence have jumped in to the “train of true voice” to belittle mohd rafi vis-a-vis their favourite singers and doing the comparison game – fruitlessly.
we mohd rafi lovers know clearly that ” a mole can never conquer a
mountain.”
therefore it’s over time that decency and decorum is restored in the thread and the site “most” urgently.
the rafi foundation
mumbai
exclusively mentioning the three links for rafi sahab admirers.
listen to these and enjoy rafi sahab
———————————–
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqLVIRXDMeY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXX69Qqcz74&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9CdaT8zBTc&feature=related
exclusively mentioning the three links for rafi sahab admirers.
listen to these and enjoy rafi sahab
It is an absurdity that 1969-1980 have its place to kishore kumar. This is in fact an embroidered story being blown out by kishore fans. Except for few decent songs by kumar, this epoch was also ruled by mohd. rafi. Here, i have gathered certain tracks which were not ordinary songs of rafi, but were tremendous triumphs. These rafi songs had been considerably more illustrious than the mediocre jingles of kishore. rafi in that last era of his life has yet again leaded with quality songs unsurpassed by any of his contemporaries. This should culminate the debate that this era did not belong to Rafi. Readers can themselves discern that these melodies of rafi sahab were enormously treasured and were immensely popular.
There are certainly much more illustrious songs of rafi worth mentioning here, but because of time restraints, i could only pick a few rafi gems out of plentiful, which might have taken the whole day to mention. Other fans are most welcome to add more. This is my modest & most heartfelt compliment to rafi sahab.
rafi was a virtuosity always, and will unceasingly be thought of the colossal & paramount playback singer of india.
1969- o nahe se farishte, tujh sey ye kesa naata.
1970. tum mujhe yun bhula na paaoge.
1970. gulabi ankhen, jo terii dekheen.
1970. khilona jaan kur too to mera dil tod jatey ho.
1970. merey mitwa, merey meet rey, aja tujh ko pukarey merey geet.
1970. nafrut ki duniya.
1971. Yeh jo chilman hey.
1971- jawan muabbat.
1972. tum jo mil gayey ho.
1972. Jab bhi yah dil udsa hota hai.
1973. aye jaane wafa.
1973. deewane heyn dewanon ko na ghar chahiyey.
1973. aj mausam buda bayeman he.
1973. yey maan meri jaan.
1973. teri bindya rey.
1973. subke rehtey lagta he jese koi nahee hey meraa.
1974. teri gulyon mey na rakhenge kaddam, ajj ke baad.
1974. wada, kurley sajna.
1974. tera piyaar khuda.
1974. o jhukki jhuki naino wali.
1974. bunda parvar main kahan.
1975. chadd gayee, chadd gayee.
1975. jhuka, jhuka key nazar.
1975. door reh kar na karo baat kareeb ajawo.
1975. zindagi, zindaa dilli ka naam hey.
1976. tumse door rehkey.
1976. sarey shehr me app sa koi naheen.
1976. terey ishk ka mujh pey, huwa yey asar hey.
1976. dekho barkha ney piyaar bursayya.
1976. petey petey kabhi kabhi yun jam budul jate hen.
1976. ghadi Milan ki aye.
1976. tumse door rehkey.
1977. o meri mehbooba.
1977. dilko laga key tujhey, kuch na millega.
1977. zindagi teri yadon mey khoyi, phir bhi khoyi nahin.
1977. o humdum jhoom ley zara.
1977. kahin ek masoom nazuk si ladki.
1977. dard mey doob gayee sham.
1977. aa lug jaa galey merey lehrake.
1978. pholon ki tarha who.
1978. hum bhi musafir tum bhi musafir.
1978. mujhe tadpati RAHI.
1979. GOVINDA AALA REY.
1979. PURDEY MEY KOI BHETA.
1979. DUNIYA MEY SADDA REHNEY KO.
1979. RAQQASA THA MERA NAAM.
1979. DAFLI WALEY DAFLI BAJJA.
1979. PIYAAR KI RAHONKA PIYARA SAFAR, PIYARA LAGEY.
1979. DOST BUN KEY HI REHNA.
1979. IK PATHAR DILKO MEY .
1979. DEKHA HEY TERI ANKHON MEY.
1980. TU IS TARAH SEY MERI ZINDAGI MEY SHAMIL HEY.
1980. MAINE POOCHA CHAN SE KE DIKHA HEY KAHEEN.
1980. DARDEY DIL DARDEY JIGAR, DILME BASAYA APNE.
1980. JADOO SA CHANEY LAGGA HEY.
1980. AYE YAAR TERI YAARI.
1980. IK RASTA DO RAHEE.
1980. KIA DEKHTE HO, SUURAT TUMHARI.
1980. YARON NE MUJHKO BULAYYA.
1980. JANEY WALONKO GHUM.
1980. MUJHE CHU RAHI HEYN.
1980. TUH IS TARAH SEY MERI ZINDAGI MEY SHAMMIL HEY.
I appreciate a lot the posts of Shri Hans Ji and Shri Musharraf ji for their scientific reasoning, who have lot of humility, perseverance and respect towards the other singers. Their posts weigh a lot in content as well as true facts. Such things are simply lacking in either in GS fans or KK fans which they need to cultivate such nice habits while visiting public forums.
Even I appreciate the posts of Roop Kumar Santoshi ji and Rajinder Kumar Tirwedi for their relentless efforts to throw away stubborn KK fans. They have fitting replies ” Eent se Eent baja dee”. Thank you for your efforts.
I also fully accept the advise of Binu Ji to take precautionary measure to keep alive the decorum of this site which is one of my interested sites, i visit this site number of times in a day.
A die hard Rafi fan
Zaheen Danish
Dear Mr. Hans. Post -3066.
Thank you very much for taking so much pains for discovering the historical facts underlying this debate. Great work indeed. I was about to mention you name of Mr.Khan who was repeatedly referred to by the Ghantasala fans and once I countered some of his arguments while remaining in a protracted period of arguments with Ghantasala fans quite a long time back.
Mr. Raj. Post-3064.
It is true that Rafians also visit sites of other singers too but they go on an individual basis and not forming groups that fans of Kishore Kumar and Ghantasala had been doing in Rafi’s site. That is because Rafian’s do not feel to form groups and vist other sites to establish the undisputed supremacy of Rafi in the area of play back singing. They know very well about the postion that Rafi enjoys and are quite happy about it.
But with all my respect to Kishorians and Ghantasalans I observe that they have formed alliances and unitedly making concerted efforts in Rafi’s site to prove their idols’ capability. It appears that they are very desperate as if the existence of their idols are at stake. They appear to believe that their idols’ positions is threatened by Rafi.
If that is the case I would humbly advise them not to be alarmed and not to panic unnecessarily. Both Kishore and Ghantasala are great legendary singers and have earned substantial popularity in their respective areas and it will remain as matters of record. They should therefore also remain happy with it. But if they try to give them the status above Rafi I would say they are mistaken because their attempts will remain only fuitle because, I have already said that supremacy of Mohammed Rafi as a play bavck is now a historical truth and no amout of posts can change it.
Regards.
a request to the Moderator:
since this thread has more mud and muck now by zealous kishore fans (one or two appearing in many names and typing from the same computer) and few utmost regional ghantasalan fans, the sanctity and standards of the mohd rafi site needs to be guarded and restored.
therefore its requested that any further repeat opinion/comments to be deleted, noted and remain unpublished.
requesting that – any further comments on this to be stopped and kept in the archives.
that mischief by trouble makers be curtailed/stopped and banned.
that the name, character, qualities of mohd rafi saaaheb be maintained by the ‘moderator’ and by all his followers and not allowed to be tarnished by a handful of liars.
parochial, mohd rafi haters and trouble makers to be noted and thrown out of this site and sanctity of the site maintained.
we request urgent responses on the above points please.
from the rafi foundation: mumbai.
dear rafi lovers,
as i promised i would give my views on both kk and gs. though kk/gs people are trying to divert the issue so that gs gets a reprieve, i will first write on gs. kk can wait, because much has already been said on kk in this as well as other threads by this site’s old stalwarts. but i will later provide my views on kk which will bust all kk theories.
i referred to the initial posts on gs. in the same posts, rafians would find that all the arguments in favour of gs which are currently being given were given. see one murthy’s post no. 455. this posts sets up the principal arguments. the 3 divine songs are given there. there is also mention of sanskrit shlokas.
later a new strategy was evolved regarding siva sankari song and it was declared the best song covering the most notes and octaves. there is an interesting story behind that.
see post 607. there comes one person by the name of khan and asks for link of some telugu song. this khan also posted in rafi-kishore thread in kk site. the name khan was purposely selected, so that it appears that some muslim is criticising rafi. then in the next post 608 pat comes the link from some gani, another muslim name. this khan asked for link at 7.09 pm and was given the link at 8.24 pm.
now comes the real surprise. this khan who had not heard of any song of gs till that time, sends in his post exactly after 26 hours and 30 minutes and declares that he has not heard any such song and there is no singer equal to gs. he reveals that he is a music expert of 35 years. he declares that nobody has reached that level of high pitch.
the most surprising revelation is that he after this short period declares that there is no bollywood song in this top range and it is very difficult to sing there. see a person listens to a song for the first time and within 15 or 16 hours (10 hours i have deducted for sleep and other daily chores) studied all the songs of bollywood recorded in about 80 years for this top range.
rafians should also read posts of a stalwart of this site vekatadri from andhra pradesh, written at that time. as this khan declared himself a rafi admirer, mr. venkatadri asked him for the list of rafi songs he had listened and also his credentials. khan did not reply to his queries. he later vanished after writing a few meaningless posts, but never replied mr. venkatadri’s queries.
this has been the background of all this and people have come with new names but have followed on these lines.
i will refer to some important posts of mr. venkatadri, who has been the best debator from rafi side in this gs issue in my further posts. i will also give stats which would bust the canard about gs dominance of telugu films for 3 decades.
the site is called,”rafians tribute to a true maesto muhammad rafi” & the thread is called “True Voice – Mohd Rafi”,
you are again uttering lies as before, abhishek/raj..?
mohd.Rafi is the greatest.
Zaheendanish, santoshi etc
I have told your rafifan1 had told a lie by calling rafi a musical incarnation. Now you are again telling greater lies by saying you rafi fans do not intrude into others site. Then what is the topic “an endless feud between fans of rafi and kishore” in kishore forum – Do you expect me to believe kishore fans are taking incarnations of rafi fans and arguing there (more than 2000 posts are there).
it took kk 22 years to make some mark in hfm. he had been singing since 1948, and got a breakthrough in 1969. it was because substandard songs stated emerging in the films and kk was the best suited singer cum clown to do the needful.
the ‘shorr’ fans have now started crying as they are short of logics. kk fans go get some lollipops and stand in the corner, & keep on humming ‘yudliyoooooo’, because that was what your so-called favorite singer could do. to these clowns yoodling seems to be the most difficult form of singing.
one can understand the level of liking for music by these jokers.
rafi is the “alpha and the omega” in singing, the pride of india’
Mr. Raj,
you seems to be a great fan of kishore kumar, so be it, we rafi fans do not have any objection for that. You all have rights to praise your liking singer, but do not say which is not correct about rafi sahab. Rafi is loved by all and especially this site is dedicated in his memory and we peaceful rafians used to discuss about him and feel happiness. When some intruder enters here and start writing illogical and malign his name, then do you think that we rafians keep aside ourselves and see this tamasha. No way, at any cost.
Kishore fans have their own KK site to praise him and write a lot about him, then why you intrude here, think a while. As long as rafians are concerned they are the most decent people and they do not intrude in other singers site. when someone comes from nowhere irkiing us then we will not leave him until he leaves this place.
Is that clear to you.
Tirwedi, zaheendanish
Your rafifan1 whoever he might be calls rafi an musical incarnation – such lies are told only by rafi fans and calls rafi’s era as incomparable – the rafi era lost its sheen after kishore started dominating. People got bored for rafi – that was main reason for kishore wave in hfm.
Rafi is the ultimate singer, india has ever produced, he is the pride of whole bharat.
right from tera khilona toota baalak, till shaam kiun udaas he aye doet, rafi simply rocks.
Rafi fans – check your people posting posts in different names – same points being put, same language being used – same abuses, perhaps they are not able to do research on this and concentrating on other posts.
abhishek, raj, kishorefan, shrivastav & rafifan1-same person, same agenda, same lies, different names
shorr’s & “sala’s”
—————-
breathless yudliyoooooooooo
Chichorey fans
what brings you here in rafi site, you are visiting rafi site more than your barren KK site, this alone shows the greatness of Rafi Sahab, you yourselves do not want to visit that barren and deserted site anymore. Your shouting, yelling and yodeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeling does not have any effect on rafians. go home boys take some rest, you all now run out of thoughts, get some energy from your same category brethern.
Tirwedi and his friends,
One could easily notice who is crying and out of frustration and anger raining abuses – No body need to tell that ha ha
salas are now breathless similar to their singer & also crying in the samemanner as their singer used to sing
raj, kishorefan, shrivastav & possibly rafifan1 are the same person, posting by different names. the way of writing & use of language & words are the same.
post 2958, in fact,sd burman was one of the greatest music director of golden period and he always complained to his noted colleagues about his son rahul for advising him ..as he was giving making substandard music at that time.rd burman was quite parallel to his father as far as melodious music is concerned..how can he quote rafisaab as just good singer…it was great rafisaab who made him hit in the film industry,,through his first..teesri manzil…later hum kissi se kum nahin.which brought him to national limelight(rafisaab bagged national award)proving rafisaab supremacy in the playback singing.secondly ashajee is ashajee due to only greats o.p.nayyar,ravi,shankerjaikishan,sd burman, khayyam n jaidevjee…r d burman gave her only cheap songs..good songs rendered by latajee.so s.d.burman was much greater than his son.. hence r.d.burman was just mediocre.
‘shorrs’ & ‘salas’ are unintentionally increasing the number of posts in this thread. they must copy paste, these in their ‘barren-site’ as well, in order to fill the empty stomach of their threads also.
one, shorr hi shorr,
other, breathless.