True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
Bhushan:
i admire u the salan fan for your ‘thick skin’
educate yourself with this:
when s.p.b went to laxmikant pyarelal for the first time for songs in Maine Pyar Kiya, the great spb did’nt sing ghantasala song.
he sang : Jaane waaalo zara, mudh ke dekh mujhe….. from dosti.
spb has so many times on record spoke about the greatness of rafi saaheb. and he also has a big picture of mohd rafi in his sitting rooooom.
not of gantasala.
jhara suniye ye geeet aur apna kaaaan teeeek kijiye.
Mubarak musharaff sahab – have a good festival day.
Sandeep, 3143 sir, nothing new as it is a known thing. Almost every programme, spb says no singer in past, present and future can match ghantasala. Rafi fans know this very clearly, they argue only for purpose of arguing. Hans ji himself knows his posts are wrong.
Dear Musharaff ji and all dear friends,
Eid mubarak to one and all. May the spirit of Rafi-ism (love for all) spread all over.
-J.K. Bhagchandani
HAPPY EID MUBARAK TO ALL MY MUSLIMS BROTHERS & SISTERS
hans.3139.
————-
Hansji! you have forgotten to mention my name, i am also a gr8 admirer of your valued annotations.
Hans and others – specially for you, listen what spb says
http://www.hindu.com/2011/02/19/stories/2011021963610500.htm
Musharaff ji – Festive greetings
Hans, just read this, you will know the answer to your research.
http://www.hindu.com/2011/04/15/stories/2011041554220500.htm
Dear Friends,
Happy Eid Greetings to you all.
Regards
Musharraf
HANS :
some of them have left already………
the salans and shors who dream about sitting in a mercedes car but coming from the ghoda gaaadi culture.
point 2
this point has been replied to by many of my fellow rafians admirably. so actually this point does not stand. i would though like to add my comments.
the kk/gs fans have said things like why rafians are not taking the word of such mds and are rafians greater than these mds and why gs was not commented upon like that. it was also said “the ok singer title was given by reputed hindi music directors to rafi”
i would say that the moment any md says that about rafi he loses the title of reputed. the reply to why these mds said that is the same jealousy which is guiding these kk/gs fans to criticise rafi. they were jealous of his success. rafi was world famous so every jealous person targetted him. ghantasala was not even known to people then who will mention him. another reason we dont know about criticism about gs and know about rafi is the fact the south cinema did not get the same attention in media which bollywood got. so to seek similarities between the two is another example of the jealousy of these kk/gs fans.
what are the facts. c. ramachandra never said anything against rafi. but the reason he did not use rafi more in the early part of his career was lata, who was his beloved who later ditched him. lata was jealous of rafi, because she knew from day one that he is better singer than her. all other mds are from the same state and i dont want to rake up the issue on these lines.
anil biswas used rafi in beqasoor in 1950 and if he did not think rafi any singer he should not have used him again. but from 1956 to 1958 he used rafi in all of his 5 films. to say in hindi – isko thook kar chaatna kehte hain. thook kar chaatne ke baad rafi bhi biswas ko na bacha sake kyonki tab tak chidiya biswas ke sangeet ka khet chug kar ud kar door ja chuki thi. aur shayad usko theek jawab mil gaya apne shabdon ka. the fact is that if you tell 100 people that anil biswas said rafi was no singer, they would ask a counter question – who is this anil biswas. everybody knows rafi but those who know biswas can be counted on fingertips.
salil never said anything against rafi’s singing abilities. the only thing against him vis-a-vis rafi is the recording room incident in film maya. what happened there was leaked by lata through her once blue-eyed boy raju bharatan, who was used for all her rumours against rafi. bharatan fell from her favour because he later started talking about c. ramachandra and lata relations. salil’s fault was that in the studio he took lata’s side and outside he did not contradict the rumour spread by lata.
about rdb the least said is better. he used rafi for best of his hits and still always bode ill for him. when he told bharatan about ‘aaja aaja main hoon pyar tera’ rendition by rafi, he broke all rules of ethics – work ethics as well as human nature ethics. he said this in 1991 when rafi had already passed away 11 years before. if he was so sure of kk rendering that song easily, why he did not insist on kk. if nasir was adamant on rafi, he should have left the film. even if we take that he was in no position to do that as he was not established, even then the question remains why he chose to use rafi even after he got established after teesri manzil. this is a case of the height of KAMINAPAN. but what one can expect from the son of another selfish guy who washed his hands off rafi after gaining fame.
contd..
now it is the turn of kk. kk fans have forwarded basically 3 points in their recent posts. i will take them pointwise.
1. rafi is a trained singer and kk is untrained.
2. some mds have commented adversly on mds.
3. the rise of kk since 1969
1. this is a big canard. first read excerpts from my post no 75 in the thread – rafi versus kishore the rivalry that never was’:
“kk was not a trained singer is the biggest canard spread by kk apologists who try to show him superior to rafi and this has been believed by rafi fans. kk received more training than rafi. i have the song of kk ‘koi hamdam na raha’ ( this is not gala-fadu, so you may not like it ) which was introduced by the great ashok kumar and he told a story that ‘kishore ka gala bachpan men chhil gaya tha aur bahut kharab ho gaya jo lagatar riyaz karne se kafi samay baad theek hua’. i have also watched an interview of anoop kumar on dd long time back, where he said that ashok kumar tried to teach music to anoop and kk both and employed many teachers and was very strict in this regard. kk received training but not the fruit of it because he was never sincere in anything. you may have heard the saying ‘kitna hi kumkum se poojo kaajal sindur nahin hote’. while rafi learned too much from too little training, kk could not. rafi has the magnanimity to acknowledge the persons from whom he learned, but kk never acknowledged his gurus.”
as per my assessment rafi was totally untrained when he came to bombay. i have listened to his interview, where he says that they resided in a village in pakistan. to a specific question whether he had some training of music before coming to sing he replied in the negative and said that he went to school for just one or two classes. this canard about rafi was spread by kk himself. he used to say ‘arey rafi sahab to mahaan hain, wo to trained they main to aise hi ga deta hoon’. kk rafi ki tareef to karte the par uska dil kala tha. lata aur kk neeche hi neeche rafi ke bare men anaap shanaap baten failate they.
i have also seen the last interview of kk given to lata. there also he says he does not know about sa re ga ma pa etc. would one believe that after about 40 years in film music a person would not know about these basic things. and especially that person who was music direstor himself. he has even sung 3 songs (which come to my mind) in which sargam is mentioned in parichay, chupke chupke and abhinetri.
contd..
i am thankful to zaheendanishji, musharrafji, triwediji and others who have appreciated my posts. in fact i am only doing my bit as all of you are doing, for the sake of our beloved rafiji. i have a penchant for research and also have time at present. so nothing special.
ultimately the opponents will bite the dust by efferts of all of us.
Dear Bhagchandaniji, post-3128.
Thank you very much for providing the links to the great gem of the song “Aye husna zara jaag”. You are absolutely right. The overwhelming influence of the song “mere mehboob tujhe” has, so to say, prevented songs like “Aye husna zara” and “Tumse izhar hal kar baithe” from getting prominence.
Hansji, without referring to any of your particular post I would simply say you have elevated the discussions to highly academic and research level.
Please keep it up.
Regards.
vivek -2873
you wrote:
“Regarding ghantasala, there should not be any discussion as he was the greatest singer & legend of telugu industry and has no connection with hindi industry, and i do not agree with mr. hans for what he has stated in one of his posts on ghantasala, which are not at all correct. Well, that is a different topic and I do not want to talk on that.”
who started the discussion on gs. gs fans or rafi fans. you should have said what wrong i have written about gs. you are making allegations without taking responsobility or giving any evidence of that. if your did not want to talk about that why did you mention this at all.
you are also behaving like kk or gs fans. are you another incarnation of the type we are seeing here in abundance. if not, then state your position and give reasons. otherwise nobody cares for you.
sandeep aur pata nahin kya kya naam walo,
apne munh miyan mitthoo banna bhi ek baat hoti hai. par kuchh log paise lekar doosron ki tareef karte hain unhen bhaand ya bhade ka tattoo bola jata hai.
kk ki kasmen khane wale ab gs par mar mite hain ek lollypop ke badle men. tangewale bhaiyo apko mercedez ki lift mubarak. hum to bhaiyya maruti men hi maje se kaat lenge.
there is a guy in mumbai ‘who’ goes around and says his musical show is the most Premium product like the mercedes car. actually, it turned out to be a “soap bubble” of sorts. we had a great laugh at his cost.
sandeepshrivastav is of the same creeed. riding on an ‘imaginary’ mercedes. another illusion and one more joke – from the salans.
Dear die hard rafi fans
Comparison between rafi and ghantasala is just like comparing a maruthi car and mercedes benz – the former vehicle is most preferred and popular among larger sections of people, whereas the latter vehicle is the most brilliant among all the vehicles, though not popular and not preferred by many people as they cannot afford it. Rafi fans should know this.
Dear Hans Ji, {post 3125}
What an allegory. A fine piece of symbolism in which the apparent meaning of the characters and events is used to symbolize a deeper moral or spiritual meaning.
I like very much to address you from now on Professor or Doctor due to your immeasurable, unfathomable knowledge about music and owning a free style of research on subjects like Ghantasala, Rafi or even Kishore, you are one of the prides of Rafians.
Just accept my hearty greetings for all your efforts in upholding the honour and respect of rafians.
here is one short story for rafians
in the good old days when hunting was a hobby and a profession but not a crime, there lived a person who made a name for himself by hunting tigers. he was named ‘tees maar khan’ because it was believed he had already killed 30 tigers during his career.
there was also a shepherd in a village and was the ring leader of all shepherds of the village, grazing cattles being also a rollicking profession in those times. one day he decided to get better of the above referred hunter and declared in the village that he would give evidence of his bravery in front of the village people. when people gathered he put some gud (jaggery) on the floor and after waiting for some time for flies to settle on it, he came down heavily on them with his chappal. when the dead flies were counted, they totalled a whopping 50 corpses. so he and his cronies declared him to be ‘pachas maar khan’. they claimed that he has eclipsed the record of ‘tees maar khan’ by 20.
do i need to say that the story applies perfectly in the present situation, where the cronies of fly killers are trying to belittle the name and fame of the tiger hunter.
the third one is mr. cherian’s a very honest and fine assessment of ghantasala’s voice. i need not put any comments of mine on that.
post 826 – anil cherian
“Let me add something about Ghantasalaji’s voice… it’s the kind of voice which appealed to the South Indian MDs as well as listeners in the 50s and 60s, infact almost all the leading singers in the South had this kind of voice… (eg. TMS, PBS)… it’s a kind of natural, full-throated, almost rustic kind of voice sans the smooth polish and resonance associated with Rafi sahab and Yesudas sir…”
contd..
the second one is from post 662 of mr. ramakrishna
“in telugu the comedy songs were rendered by p.b.srinivas & madhavapeddy, where as in hindi rafi sahab rendered romantic, pathetic, comedy, ghazalas & naats.”
rafians will note how hollow is the claim of ghantasala’s versatility being more than rafi. rafi even left kk far behind in this genre in which he specialised. i know gs fans would come with more lame excuses.
i had posted three old excerpts, two from mr. ramakrishna and one form mr. cherian. but that post is still shown as under moderation. as i had posted them for some purpose, i am posting them with my comments.
the first one is post 629 of mr. ramakrishna
“as all of us know melody means rafi sahab and rafi sahab means melody.
in one of the recent programmes ‘ jhummandi naadam ‘ in telugu, the playback singer mrs p.susheela garu was praised much by the compere for her melodious voice but she declined it and gave all credits to rafi sahab as the ‘ master of melody”
what is striking in this is the fact that p.susheela has sung a number of duets with ghantasala, but she names rafi as master of melody.
Musharraf saab (Post 3119):
What a gem of a song you have mentioned (Ae husn zara jag tujhe ishq jagae… from ‘Mere Mehboob’). The song starts with playing of piano instrument, and then enters Rafi saab’s magical voice.. it appears as if emitting from the piano.. in full sync with the instrument…
I have always always felt that this song has remained bit underrated, perhaps bit lost out in luster of title song ‘Mere Mehboob tujhe meri mohabbat ki kasam…’ I would like all Rafi fans to revisit this brilliant song at the following link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk-7d9M9uLk
J.K. Bhagchandani
True voice…. will go in to the Book of records. so many comments. One day it will go to the limca book of records ….
now, i will request all rafians to post the beautiful soulful songs of rafi saaaheb naming the composers/lyricists and giving more details.
the shor fan must be given some strong dosages – its felt.
Today is 27th of ramdan the day we lost mohd rafi
There is yet another song that I would like to share with the music lovers. This is from the film “Mere Mehboob”. The song is “Aye husn zara jaag, mujhe ishq jagaye”. Seldom have I crossed a more romantic song than this. However owing to the limitations in my IT knowledge I can not provide the links to this song. Probably Maha Devikaji or Anil Cherianji would be kind enough to provide the link in any subsequent post.
Regards
binuji
i will be doing that upto best of my ability. we dont even ask kk or gs fans to show us songs equal to ‘mujhe le chalo’ type of high quality rafi songs because they were incapable of singing at that level.
maha devika
also listen to songs of film tulsidas of 1954 which include
1. mujhe apni sharan men lelo ram
2. rahun kaise main tumko nihare bina
3. he mahadev meri laaj rahe
4. jehi sumirat sidhi hoi
there are more songs also and all are top class. music is by the great rafian chitragupta. the last one is a bunch of chaupais from ramcharitmanas. nobody has sung them so beautifully. not even mukesh, who is known for his excellant singing of chaupais.
there is one song from film chambal ki rani (1979) – a qwwali with lata – which will show the strength and originality of rafi’s voice even at that stage. the mukhda is ‘meri barbadi par mera ishq hi badnam hua’. music was given by naushad.
i hope you have listened to the song ‘maike se aaja biwi ri, tere pyar men ho gayi tb’ from film ‘devar bhabhi’, which i had referred in reply to abhishek. in this rafi has modulated his voice in a unique way.
the bandits “who” are indeed tresspassing the mohd rafi . com m u s t write 2 thousands of radio stations as to “why” they are playing mohd rafi sahib’s songs once every 12 mnts or more.
and, to many concert organisers as to “why” they are organising maximum mohd rafi shows in innumerable cities 12 months a year.
and, to the music lovers – why they attend mohd rafi concerts and allow organisers to put ” house full ” boards at the start of the concerts.
mohd rafi . com is a very small site for these “jealous” people.
today morning : it’s 6.16 am just heard mohd rafi’s Insaaaf ka mandir Hai, bhagwan ka ghar hai the perenial dev bhak ti song of naushad which inspired op nayyar and sahir to make a beauty for naya daur : ” aana hai to aa raaha mein, Kuch pher nahi hai – bhagwan ke ghar andher hai der nahi hai ” sung by the bharat ka ratna rafi sahib.
these are anna hazare times and i also heard many patriotic numbers of rafi, mukesh, lata and mahendra kapoor. not any one of the other singer/singers.
jalenge na. jaroor jalenge. poor chap”s. Kaan bandh karna padega ya radio ko bandh karna hoga. what a sticky situation for these jalta huwa fan who uses many names – to make register herein.
more of it later.
meantime the group of mohd rafi sahib fans led by hans, zaheendaish, ahmed bhai , maha devika and many of our friends to continue posting the “gems” of our bharat ka ratna.
we are loving it …………………………
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Dear Dr. Chandrashekharji- post-3101.
Songs are judged on the basis of their respective qualities and not on the basis of someone’s comment. And there is no authenticity that Rafi admitted that Telegu version “Payaniniche o chiluka” has been better rendered than Hindi “Chal ud ja re panchchi”. In this respect I would request you to please refer to my post-2700 wherein I have already stated my views on these two songs that on a comparative basis the Hindi version was better than the Telegu counterpart.
However, I would now endeavor to elaborate my views strictly in musical terms.
Firstly one has to understand the voice structures of Rafi and Ghantasala and their relative impact on the renditions. Rafi’s voice was steady and melodious by which he could attempt any filmy song irrespective of their nature. And he could effortlessly shift from low to high pitch and vice versa and still maintain the steadiness of the voice. Plus his voice could be soft in soft numbers such as “Abhi na jao chhod kar” or “Ayse to na dekho” and radiate steel boldness and determination in high pitch songs such as “Duniyan ke rakhwale” or “Zindabad Zindabad”.
Ghantasala’s voice on the other hand was strong and vibratory. This vibratory aspect although played a dominant role for Ghantasala for renditions of “Taans” in the classical numbers such as “Sivashinkari” or “Rasik Raja” for which he was remarkable, it was nevertheless a hindrance for him for displaying the necessary boldness and determination in rendering high pitch songs.
So if we now look into the beginning of the songs we find more strength, steadiness and determination with which Rafi starts with “Chal ud ja re panchchi” than the telegu counterpart of “Payaniniche o chiluka” rendered by Ghantasala. The same happens in the end when both of the songs ends in high pitch although the distinction was less visible here in absence of words.
Now coming to the antaras Rafi became more melodious and could generate more emotions and sweetness than Ghantasala when he sang “Bhool ja apni mast hawa” or “Rote hai woh pank pakheru” compared to the telegu lines.
Ghantasala nevertheless attempted the song well and although the songs were based on the same tunes, both Rafi and Ghantasala rendered the song in their individual styles which made both the songs unique.
However there is a generalized theory true for all singers that no one sings bad than the other. All singers sing to their best capability and strength. But what makes the difference among them is their individual voice structures that ultimately plays the decisive role.
Regards.
i did not have that much knowledge about other singers
(other than yesudasji) now from the discussions and
various comments i understood : why mannada told
rafi saab is having the positions 1 to 10
:why yesudasji told it is difficult to have a singer like
rafi saab again.
:why lataji told singer like rafi saab will not take birth
again and again
:why kk told if he can sing one or two ways rafi saab
can sing 100 ways
:why mahindra kapoorji told it was his happiest day
in his life the day he could meet rafi saab first
time.
really rafi saab is the “sun” and others are simply stars only.
This G.sala fans and KK fans are suffering from dementia and amnesia both diseases, they have to seek MD doctor immediately. ” Rog badhne se phle apni dawa karlo taaki tum ko argument karne ki mohlat mil jaaye”
sharm karo ……..sharm karo……
i am very pleased as well as highly surprised that i heard this greatest song of rafi sahab in low notes, for the first time.
Thanks bino nairji to share this soothing & sweet song with all of us. it seemed that i am flowing in smooth waves of an ocean, at the shore of a heavenly island, just amazing experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9zcA8Rrb3k
yes.. hans ji. same here. heard 2 times today song : mujhe le chalo…. one on vividh bharati early morning at 7 am. and then on U tube.
this is called a composition with the trademark of madan mohan sahib.
lage raho aur inko (salans and KK shorians) Ko – mohd rafi sahib ke ache gaane ke saaath saath ache se analysis bhi bataao – tha ki yeh logon ko raat ko “neendh” na aaa sakhe.
“Jalne waaalon” ke liye Koi bhi dawa nai banega isliye.
binuji
i have listened to this song many times and everytime i have to stop all work even eating or taking tea when i listen it.
old excerpts
629 – ramakrishna
“as all of us know melody means rafi sahab and rafi sahab means melody.
in one of the recent programmes ‘ jhummandi naadam ‘ in telugu, the playback singer mrs p.susheela garu was praised much by the compere for her melodious voice but she declined it and gave all credits to rafi sahab as the ‘ master of melody”
662 – ramakrishna
“in telugu the comedy songs were rendered by p.b.srinivas & madhavapeddy, where as in hindi rafi sahab rendered romantic, pathetic, comedy, ghazalas & naats.”
826 – anil cherian
“Let me add something about Ghantasalaji’s voice… it’s the kind of voice which appealed to the South Indian MDs as well as listeners in the 50s and 60s, infact almost all the leading singers in the South had this kind of voice… (eg. TMS, PBS)… it’s a kind of natural, full-throated, almost rustic kind of voice sans the smooth polish and resonance associated with Rafi sahab and Yesudas sir…”
I HAVE JUST HEARD THE TELUGU VERSION OF ‘CHAL UD JA REY PANCHI’ Payaniche O Chilaka, AND HERE IS WHAT I NOTICE.
LISTENING TO THE START, ONE FEELS THAT IF GHANTASALA IS GOING TO TAKE THIS SONG TO NEW HEIGHTS, BUT SUDDENLY HE LOSES CONTROL OVER THE SONGS. IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SONG WHERE RAFI HAS SUNG THE SONG STARTING FROM LOW NOTES TO HIGHEST NOTES, HE HAS MAINTAINS THE CONTINUITY IN SHIFTING THE NOTES, WHAT I MEAN TO SAY THAT THE CHANGE IS GRADUAL, AND IN THE HIGHEST NOTES OF THE SONG, THROUGHOUT THE SONG RAFI HAS ALSO MAINTAINED THE SWEETNESS OF VOICE. NOW COMING TO TELUGU SINGER, I DO NOT KNOW WHY THE SINGER HAS LOST CONTROL OVER THE SONG. EXCEPT THE START AS WELL AS THE END, WHICH IS FINE, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SONG, GHANTASALA WAS NOT ABLE TO SING THE HIGH NOTES AS HIGH AS RAFI SAHAB HAS DONE IN THE ORIGINAL SONG. GHANTASALA VOICE SEEMS WAVERING, AT ONE POINT IT IS HIGH, SUDDENLY HE SHIFT TO LOW NOTES AND AGAIN GOES TO SOME MIDDLE NOTES. THE CONTROL OF THE VOICE BY TELUGU SINGER IS OBVIOUSLY LOST THROUGHOUT THE MIDDLE OF THE NOTES. ALL READERS MUST KNOW THAT THIS ARE MY IMPARTIAL & UNBIASED COMMENTS.
TO CONCLUDE, I WOULD SAY THAT THE HINDI VERSION SUNG BY MOHD. RAFI IS FAR BETTER THAN THE TELUGU VERSION SUNG BY GHANTASALA, & THOSE TALKING IN CONTRARY TO THAT ARE, I AM AFRAID NOT SINCERE IN THEIR WORDS.
pls. listen to the composition of madan mohan from sharabi….. :Mujhe le chalooo…..by mohd rafi.
another platinum from bharat ka ratna.
‘O DUNIYA KE RAKHWALE’ SUNG BY MOHD.RAFI IS THE ULTIMATE SINGING CLASSIC BOTH IN MELODY, RENDITION AS WELL AS COMPOSITION. NO MUSIC DIRECTOR HAS EVER PRODUCED A SONG AS EXCELLENT AND HEART-TOUCHING AS THIS ONE. IT IS INDEED THE MOST DIFFICULT SONG TO BE SUNG CORRECTLY, INDEED. RAFI SAHAB HAS SUNG THIS SONG TO EXTREME DEDICATION, DEVOTION & HAS IN FACT PUT HI HEART & SOUL IN RENDERING THE SONG. HIS VOICE MAINTAINS ITS SWEETNESS AND MELODY THROUGHOUT THE SONG.
IT IS SAID THAT HAD HE ONLY SUNG THIS ONE SONG, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN REMEMBERED BY MILLIONS FOR EVER. BUT THE BEAUTY IS THAT HE HAS NUMEROUS BEAUTIFUL SONGS TO HIS CREDIT.
NO BODY CAN DREAM OF THE ZENITH OF POPULARITY RAFI, ENJOYS & HE LIVES IN THE HEART OF HIS FANS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.
RAFI IS THE INSTITUTE OF SINGING & THE GREATEST SINGER THAT EVER WAS& WILL BE THE MIGHTIEST SINGER IN THE HORIZON OF HINDI MUSIC.
JUST LISTEN TO HIS NUMEROUS GHAZALS. THESE HAVE AN EVERLASTING EFFECT, WHENEVER YOU HEAR THE GHAZALAS.
EVEN HE HAS SUNG THESE BETTER THAN THE PROFESSIONAL GHAZAL SINGER. THESE DAYS I ENJOY HEARING THESE GEMS OF RAFI ALWAYS BEFORE GOING TO MY BED. THEY ARE SO SOOTHING.
HE WAS A GENIUS. WHEN YOU HEAR HIM IN A FEW OF HIS INTERVIEWS, ONE GET SURPRISED THAT THIS IS THE SAME PERSON WHO SINGS SUCH AN ENORMOUS VARIETIES OF SONGS. HE IS SUCH A SOFT SPOKEN, SHY AND HUMBLE PERSON BUT HIS SONGS LEAVES SUCH A POWERFUL IMPACT.
RAFI SAHAB YOU JUST MESMERIZES, HATS OFF TO YOU, WE ALL LOVE YOU FROM THE DEPTHS & DEEPEST CORES OF OUR HEARTS.
rafi has sung chul ud ja rey panchi with lot of expressions & pathos, ghantasala has sung the telugu version as if a patient suffering from some terminal disease is trying to sing. he has no breth, is struglling, & in most of the times it feels that his voice is out-of-his control, there is lot of swaying here & there especially in high notes where tonal clarity is absent, altogether
kishorefan – 3091
rafi fans are the chelas of rafi, who himself believed in doing his job perfectly. so his chelas are not doing anything different.
same with you kk fans. kk also shunned hard work. wo bhi munh utha ke studio pahunch jate the aur kuchh bhi anap shnap munh se nikal dete the, jiska parinam ye hua ki koi unke gane yaad nahin rakhta. to bhaiya tum apne guru se alag kaise ho sakte ho. maine kabhi bhi aise umeed nahin ki.
chandrasekhar
you are doing good yeoman service by promptly supporting anything said by gs fans without verifying and everytime you are proved wrong.
kabhi apni akal se bhi kaam lo. until then i would request you to remove dr. from your name, because that tarnishes the name of doctors.
rafi never said ghantasala sang the song better than him. in fact nobody can even come halfway near rafi in such songs where a singer is to convey deep emotions. stop repeating the lies.
bhushan
lies, lies and more lies. will you continue the trend till eternity. kabhi sharm ko bhi apna kaam karne ka mauka do.
you wrote:
“Hans , The next post by Mr. vasu clarifies the doubts of Mr. Venkatadri’s post that ghantasala never copied any hindi songs and was not interested in that and you have not quoted that.”
you alleged that i did not quote vasu’s post. you neither did quote it nor give its number. but still continue lengthening the list of your shameless lies. you say that vasu clarifies that ghantasala never copied hindi songs and that is the opposite of essence of that post. in fact that post confirms that he copied. but ghantasala is also unabashedly not taking the responsibility of his actions. vasu’s post has in fact shown ghantasala in a very poor light as a human being.
here goes the excerpts of vasu’s post, which would expose your lies.
“Sri Venkatadri ji, a small correction pl. which i wanted to share with you. My father had met ghantasala in 1972 and spoke to him for 8 hours at Hyderabad. Ghantasala garu stated that when producers ask him to follow a hindi tune he used to follow it and he himself never had any interest towards any hindi tune. I hence feel your interpretation of copying/following to 90% seems incorrect. After all, A music director has also to keep the producers interest in mind.”
candle light can never by superior to that of sun, and rafi is the son of the sky of playback singing and all the other versions as well. inferiority complex might harm the health of ‘shorrs’ & ‘salas’.
and to us your good – health is more important. so stop uttering lies after lies, you people are well exposed, now. have some dignity & honor, anyways.
dr. chandrasekhar!
with all due respect, i hope you are not suffering from “Alzheimer’s disease’.
rafi version is far more superior than the telugu version, a fact agreed by most of the music fans, except ghantasalas.
and for you telling lies look a bit awkward because medical profession is considered to be the most noble. rafi or even lata have never talked high of, and have never praised ghantasala ever. next time bring along the authenticated proof.
may be to encourage a inferior singer, that actually ghantasala was, they might said that, but still i can not believe this, as there is no proof. why should greatest singer praisea singer who is not talented & has breath-contol problems.
do not talk in thin air.
Dr. Chandrasekhar post 3101.
dr sahab must concentrate on his profession of treating his patients. music is not his ‘cup of tea’. his music sense is also very ordinary indeed.
he is actually saying that candle light is brighter than the son’s.
its always a great joke when people say any other singer in india can sing better than rafi.
he is awarded the crown of being the ‘singer of the millinium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsn8Sl9v1hI
link to the song rendered by mr pavan, clearly surpassing the original in all aspects
a great joke by dr chandrasekar. If it is so then he must also admit that mr pavan has sung siva sankari much better than ghantasala’s original, and i also feel pavan voice has more strenth, variationas and above all the difficult modulations he has introduced the song is awsome. he has not been breathless like gs is in siva sankari.
mannaday version from which the tune is being theft is also much better than the copy ‘siva sankari’
mohd.rafi has never said that the version chal ud ja re panchi was better sung by ghantasala. this is a mere lie, repetedly blown out by fans of gs in order to puposely glorify their favorite. actually, the song speaks for itself, if any neutral person hear both the versions, he will very clearly observe that rafi version is far better than ghantasala’s. rafi sounds more sweeter , moreover, the range, the change of notes, the breath control all were superior in hindi (original version). gs voice is vibrating, & he struggles in that “stolen” song from hfm, as he used to most of the time. they can never provide the link where rafi said that.
it is like 9-11 was an inside job planned and executed by CiA, & BUSH, BUT AFTER REPEATED PROPOGANDA ON MEDIA, THEY WERE ABLE TO CONVINCE MASSES WITH THAT ‘SHEER’ LIE THAT THE ATTACKS WERE BEING CARRIED OUT BY TALIBANS.
I WANT TO HEAR RAFI SAHAB SAID SOMETHING ABOUT GHANTASALA. THAT EVEN ONCE. LIES ARE LIES. RAFI WILL ALWAYS BE BETTER THAN GHANTASALA WHATEVER PROPAGANDA, THESE ‘SALANS’ SPREAD.
And regarding Hans ji’s post on ramakrishna garu (post reproduced by one gentleman ramakrishna), it is true that ramkrishna did sing a line with ghantasala and they are only 2 or 3 songs only (and probably If I remember it is only one song in film dorababu in telugu in 1974) and ramakrishna did sing some songs from 1972 to 1980 in telugu films and was a bit dominant from 1974 to 1980 i.e. filling of gap between ghantasala and spb, as ghantasala passed away in 1974 and spb gained popularity only in 1980. That was the intent of that post Mr. Hans, hope you are clear and do not twist facts and draw wrong conclusions. And even in period 72-74, ramakrishna songs were not found effective and were sung when ghantasala was in poor health. After the songs were recorded the producer took the songs to ghantasala (when he recovered a bit)requesting him to sing those songs, but ghantasala politely refused and okayed songs of ramakrishna in that period – 1972-74. There was a chance for ghantasala to sing those songs for himself which he did not.
I do not have any problem with ganesh’s post , probably they are his views and everybody can have their views. But rafi himself had stated chal ud ja re panchi was better sung by ghantasala than his version & Probably only rafi could know why he mentioned that statement. Ghantasala’s range, voice clarity, melody, depth and strength, high pitch was unquestionable in octaves as well as breath control – this is view of musicians & not of ghantasala fans, I have nothing more to add on that front. Perfection in music and singing was a synonym for ghantasala.
Hans, since you were mentioning about Mr. Venkatadri, Mr. Bhushan has put a post of that gentleman and I hope which clears the doubts of Mr. Ganesh as well.