Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?
This article is written by Mr.H.V.Guru Murthy.
A regular browser to web site mohdrafi.com, having gone through the letters of Rafi lovers would assume that R D Burman did not utilize Rafi properly, instead he preferred Kishore Kumar. Because of this reason, Rafi Fans are still upset with RDB even though he passed away a decade back.
Yes, it is true that RDB preferred KK over Rafi during early seventies. For that matter, which Music Director or Actor or Producer or Director will not have his preference. It was well known that Raj Kapoor always preferred Mukesh, Manoj Kumar preferred Mukesh or Mahendra Kapoor, B.R.Chopra films had Mahendra, MD Ravi also had plenty of songs with Mahendra so also O.P after he broke with Rafi. Similarly OP always had either Asha or Geetha Dutt and never Lata. Salil also used all other Singers. Director Subba Rao insisted on Mukesh for SAATHI even though the hero was Rajendra Kumar and MD Naushad, two Rafi Fans. Even Kalyanji Anandji had many films with Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and KK even though Rafi was instrumental in their raise through JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE, AAMNE SAAMNE, etc. LP, by all means Rafi Bhakts, used KK regularly in the early seventies even for Rafi heroes like Jeetendra, Dharmendra, etc. SJ also switched over to KK in movies like MAIN SUNDAR HOON, DIL DAULAT DUNIYA, KAL AAJ AUR KAL, etc. Of course, the music standard came down a notch or two in that period. But, well, it is their prerogative to have whomsoever they wanted though I am sure in heart of heart, why even openly, they would have admitted the superiority of Rafi over all other Singers. Similarly, RDB also used KK for almost all his movies in the early seventies as perhaps he had some special chemistry with him.
However, let us not forget that RDB used Rafi extensively during late sixties as his main playback singer right from the first movie. He gave hit music with Rafi in TEESRI MANZIL, NAQLI NAWAAB, CARAVAN, PYAAR KA MAUSAM, THE TRAIN, ABHILASHA, ADHIKAR, RATON KA RAAJA, etc. Later during late seventies he returned to Rafi and gave hits like SHAAN, HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, ABDULLAH, ZAMANE KO DIKHANA HAI, etc. In between, he had Rafi in CHANDI SONA qawali with Mannadey (Ek Shok Hasina Se), YADON KI BAARAT (Title song and who can forget the duet with Asha Chura Liya Hai Tumne), DIL KA BAADSHAH (this Raj Kumar starrer had all songs by Rafi), THE GREAT GAMBLER (Raftasa Mera Naam), SHEHZADA (Solo Tere Attaroo and duet with Lata Kaahe Ko Bulaya), etc.
If a person cannot appreciate the greatness of Rafi, then it can be safely concluded that the person does not have a sense of music. Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc. RD would have definitely known the great qualities of Rafi, the Singer. Just because he did not use Rafi extensively as one would expect, let us not degrade this MD who gave us some good songs in CHANDAN KA PALNA, PADOSAN, HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA, MERE JEEVAN SAATHI, AJNABEE, AMAR PREM, SANAM TERI KASAM, BHOOT BANGLA, BAHARON KE SAPNE (Rafi solo Zamane Ne Maare), PARICHAY, KINAARA, APNA DESH, ZAHREELA INSAAN, RAMPUR KA LAKSHAMAN (Pyaar Ka Samay with Lata, KK and Rafi), 1942 – A LOVE STORY, KATI PATANG to certain extent, etc. though he gave some very mediocre music in films like DEEWAR, SHOLAY, KITAAB, ZAKHMEE, RAFOO CHAKKAR, NAMKEEN, DHARAM KARAM and BIWI O BIWI (so un-RK film like), etc. so many forgettable movies as for as music was concerned.
The irony of RDB was either he gave good music or petered out to a very mediocre music in so many films. I read some where that Shashi Kapoor called RD as National Anthem Music Director. In those days, theatres used to play National Anthem at the end of the movie and the Hall doors used to be shut till the completion of the Anthem. As soon as the Anthem used to commence, our in-disciplined people used to rush to the Hall Door and wait for the door opening. Similarly, whenever RDB songs commenced in most of the movies, people used to rush to toilet.
Still, it is not fair that we use harsh and sometimes, un-parliamentary language against any body if they differ with our views. We cannot forget the contribution of all these MDs, Heroes, Singers, Directors, etc. in making the Indian Film Music so rich.
post 747…..
re : guide, vijay anand was a great supporter of rafi and he must have been the deciding factor along with dev anand. also rafi was in great form and sdb would always go by the market forces. this is proved by the fact that the first two songs of aradhana was recorded for rajesh khanna in the vocals of rafi saaheb. here, the distributors too had a say, it’s being said.
binu nair. mumbai.
ref. post 747
gurumuthy ji has written like a true sdb fan. though he is a stalwart of this site and i am new, i have also done some research work which has not been wholly perused by him.
i may first tell here that i am also a true fan of sdb, but only his music and not as a person. I have all his gems in my regular playlist which also contains good songs standing in the name of rdb though i consider that he had a lot of sdb help in many of those. similarly i listen to kishore’s top songs regularly as also every good song by any singer or md whether they have come up with a few or plenty.
i do not have anything against bengalis also and i have said i have a few good bengali friends. i have a deep respect for hrishikesh mukherjee, bimal roy and satyajit ray’s films as also have favourite bengali actors/actresses. so nobody should think that i am anti-bengali. what i dont like is the tendency of bengalis (of course not every bengali) to hurt others’ feelings to promote some bengali.
but, i must also tell that i am first and foremost a fan of rafi both as a singer and as a human being. and i really feel hurt when such a nice person is roughly used by anybody, of course without any reason, because he never gave any reason to anybody to have a grudge.
though my post has been written in a specific context, i would try to reply to the points raised by guru murthy ji, conceding that he has every right to have his own opinion.
1. & 2. these i take up together because they are inter-related. the statement made in point 1 cannot be corroborated or proved whether dev insisted on kk or whether sdb told kk is just conjecture for me, so the facts should be allowed to prove themselves. to the question asking reason for sdb using rafi and not kk, i would say that i have already given all the reasons which came to my mind in my earlier post (743). the major reason was that there was friction between kishore and sdb. i would like to ask a counter question – why did dev anand not insist on the use of kk in ‘tere ghar ke samne’ ‘kala bazar’ ‘kala pani’. i would also like to ask guru murthy ji why kk was shut out from sdb recording room between 1958 and 1964 except the films where he was a singing star.
i do not subscribe to the view that kk was dev ananad’s voice. you must have heard of films like ‘asli naqli’ ‘hum dono’ ‘jab pyar kisi se hota hai’ ‘duniya’ ‘maya’ ‘sharabi’ ‘jali note’ ‘c.i.d.’ ‘love marriage’ all dev anand films where rafi was dev’s voice. rafi was used as dev’s voice even by c. ramachandra in ‘amar deep’ and ‘insaniyat’. kk was used by sdb alone on dev and dev’s songs by rafi are remembered till now not those by kk. even sdb used hemant on dev in ‘jaal’ ‘munimji’ and ‘house no. 44’
3. ‘pyaasa’ and ‘kagaz ke phool’ were in the mid period as classified by me. but talaash came in 1969 which is covered in the last segment. i havent said anywhere that rafi was not used in the first or the last period. i would have given the figures of the last segment as 13 out of 26 films, i would have been happy if you had made it 26 by providing facts. one or two i may have missed though the chance is very remote because for the later period stats are more readily available. i know there were two duets in ‘talaash’ by rafi with lata namely ‘palkon ke peechhe se'(a true gem) and ‘aj to junli ratma’ but they are part of the 13. others are 5 duets with lata (one each in ‘jewel thief’, ‘ishq par zor nahin’ ‘aradhana’ ‘abhiman’ and ‘anurag’), one duet with asha in ‘aradhana’, one with manna dey in ‘prem pujari’ and one with kishore in ‘chupke chupke’. the three solos are ‘mehbooba teri tasveer’ from ‘ishq par zor nahin’, ‘mera man tera pyasa’ from ‘gambler’ and ‘ae mere man main hun magan’ from ‘us paar’. i would be grateful if anybody would add to that any song missing.
4. this is just a vague statement and no sound argument. if that is taken then we would have to conclude that sdb was in fit health only from 1957 to 1965, because he did not use him much prior to 1957. can you give me the reasons. also from 1969 till 1974 he was regularly doing 3 films a year except in 1973 when he did four and that is the average output of his whole career. that much i know that he suffered a stroke in 1975 and his films after that can be said to have been handled by others and the stats tell that rdb was not allowed to handle at least ‘deewangee’ released in 1976 which was given to ravindra jain after sdb had recorded one song. and if rdb was handling everything why they were continuing in two separate names. i would say that rdb was carrying the psyche of his father when he used kk and not the other way round.
5. i dont know which mid period you are talking about. is it as given by me or your own. i would take it as mine only because you have not specified your own. i have already referred to the duets in ‘nau do gyarah’ in my previous post jewel thief is not in the mid period. kk was never used in the mid period from 1958 to 1964 except for his own films.
6. there is nothing in this point. because i have made it very clear in my post that rafi was not used much in pre 1957 period. he was sdb’s main singer only upto ‘guide’. even in ‘teen devian’ he gave 4 songs to kishore and only two solos to rafi (which we remember till today) which kishore could not have sung. and mind you he had still to use rafi for his son rdb in ‘teesri manzil’ and after its success and establishing of rdb he almost totally discarded rafi.
7. does not need a reply.
i do not agree that truth lies somewhere in between, because, you havent enlightened me enough to change my opinion that sdb gave a rough treatment to rafi. i also do not agree that sdb chose the best suited singer. you have to support your argument with facts. otherwise this would mean that rafi was a suitable singer only from 1957 to 1965 and before 1957 and after 1965 he was not a suitable singer.
ref mail 743,Rafi saab was not a favourite with Bengali MD`s is a known fact,Raju Bharatan in one of his articles with Salil Chaudhary,Salil Ch,kept on insisting that Rafi Saab gave not less than 35 takes for `Toote huye Khawabon Ne`.Similarly Anil Biswaas used to say that he did not like Rafi Saab because he had a Punjabi ascent.If you go thru RDB`s remarks in the so called interview with Raju Bharatan the same thing is brought that Rafi Saab was on home turf with OPN.Rafi Saab was on a home turf with not only OPN but also with all time greats MadanMohan Ji,Roshan ji,SJ,Husnlal Bhagratram,Naushad,Ravi,Chitrgupt and all other MD`s of 50,60& and with lp.rr,usha khanna,ravindra jain and others,because of Rafi Saab`s singing capacity and abilities.
With RDB the matter was diffrent as kk was on a Bengali turf,and where two bengalis meet that is the end of the world for them,they will ignore the others.
That has already been observed by Mr.Hans.
Lata sang for SDB after almost five years & almost 17 movies ,some of these are Insaan Jaag Utha,Kagaz Ke Phool,Lajwanti,Sujata,Manzil,
Kala Bazaar,where Dada gave great music.and had no lata song
Tere was no SDB release in 1961.
From 1963 till Guide ,Rafi Saab was the dominant male singer in Meri Surat teri Aankhen,Tere Ghar Ke Saamne,Kaise Kahoon,Benazir,Ziddi.
Again in 1966,there was no SDB release.
The two flop films of 1965 are Bhoot Bangla and Teesra Kaun.
If you study the filmography of RDB,barring HKKN,(1977),his music is on downslide barring a few exceptions here & there,majority of his movies post 1976,i.e. after Dada`s death in Oct.1975 had trash music.
As far as Hemant Kumar is concerned ,majority of songs were sung by him ,barring exceptionS like Miss Mary (1957),Paayal (1957) & Do Dil (1964)
where Rafi Saab was the main playback singer.
Mr.Hans however you have made an observation which cannot be ignored as it is supported by facts.
Post 743. Figures of Rafi and KK songs for SDB under different periods some how prove the points raised by Mr. Hans. But some facts cannot be ignored.
1. SDB insisted on Rafi for the three solos in Guide much gainst the wishes of the hero Dev Anand and also openly told KK that he could not have done justice to these three songs.
2. What was the reason that SDB did not use KK and only used Rafi in all the solos of Tere Ghar Ke Saamne, Kala Bazaar, Kala Pani, etc. though the hero was KK’s Dev Anand.
3. Let us also not forget that SDB used only Rafi for films like Talaash, Pyaasa, Kagaz Ke Phool, etc. having Rafi heroes during the mid period.
4. Of course, during the later periods, SDB deviated and used KK for Rafi heroes in movies like Naya Zamana, Sagina, etc., whether it was due to SDB’s ill health when RDB called the shots in SDB movies.
5. In all other movies in the mid period, SDB used both Rafi and KK for DA (Guide, Jewel Thief, Teen Deviyan, Nau Do Gyarah two duets “Aaja Panchi” and “Kali Ke Roopame”), etc.
6. In the earlier period, SDB used almost all Singers like Hemant, Talat, KK and Rafi but after Pyaasa, Rafi was his main Singer.
7. Of course, Hemant as a MD did not use Rafi much (except perhaps Do Dil)but had KK and Mannadey in few of his movies. Similarly KK as MD did not use Rafi and for that matter any other Singer, but that is understandable as no MD will give chance to other Singers when he himslef is a leading Singer.
Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between as for as SDB and Rafi are concerened. The important fact is that SDB never compromised when it came to his songs as he chose the best suited Singer but some how RDB failed to note this and lost out in the end.
post 741 & sanjay ji……..
myk. yes . i look forward to meet rajesh roshan very soon and would report back the finer points. sure.
pls send me some of the details you would wish to know. i will surely gather it.
sanjay ji……. do you know mr.narayan ji of bangalore…… pls. confirm. i am also happy to know that many rafi fans like you wish to know various facts and phases of rafi’s life and whatever “new” things i get, yours truly will post them – time to time.
this reminds me of what pyarelal saaheb told us about the song : waada tera waada a hit from kk……
kk was very very reluctant to sing this song and was saying : give this to rafi saaheb. l and p said no and kk sang and the song became a big hit.
and during the seventies an arab family in dubai would sit listening to binaca geet mala on wednesdays at 8.00 p.m. like innumerable music lovers the world over. at the end of the programme the patriarch of the family would come in and ask : how many songs of rafi was played today………….
many youngsters like us were usually “disappointed” with the non-inclusion of rafi songs.
the binaca geet mala was popular but rafi lovers wanted rafi songs and many of them wrote to them about non-inclusion of rafi songs – post 1970 . they would say the songs were selected on popularity basis. but my poser is how flop songs of flop movies made it to the binaca charts? and what happened to the binaca tooth paste and to the binaca geet mala?.
binu nair , mumbai……..
Post 743.
A different (and rather bold) analysis. Personally I too think in similar ways when it comes to RDB and Rafi (sans the ‘Bengali’ element). Having recently listened to many (if not most) of the compositions that RDB gave to Rafisahab in the ’70s it’s become obvious (for me) how RDB utilised (or rather exploited) the ‘baadshah’. He gave Rafisaab some ‘made for classes only’ songs and ‘not-from-the top shelf’ songs. If he returned (with designed -to-be-popular songs) to Rafisahab post HKKN, it’s only bcoz Rafisahab was saleable and those quawwalies and soft romantic pieces demanded a Rafi (and KK couldn’t possibly sing for all the male actors in a film).
I can’t comment abt. SDB’s treatment of Rafisahab, but statistics supports the theory of cold-shoulders when got-what-wanted.
post 743
I fully agree with the statistics of Hans who has courageously brought the facts of Burmanda totally ignoring Rafi after1966. This was also mentioned by a big and popular orchestra troupe of Mumbai whenever a tribute is paid to Rafi. Iam sure there are many Sr.Burman da fans out there but it is surprising that even in films like Jewel Thief,Gambler and many other films which are non-devanand like sharmilee,jugnu Rafi sahab was ignored.
This may not be deliberate but Burmanda went by the popularity of singers. This situation worsened with his son R.D.Burman.
But many Rafi sahab faithfuls like MM,LP,Shanker, stuck to the legend.
Hans has brought the statisitcs but it is hardfacts very difficult to digest for Burman fans….
Ofcourse Rafi sahab had a great success story with both the father n son duo and there are many music lovers who consider their combination at paar with say Naushad sahab or Nayyar sahab.
Kalyani and Deepali
i am new to this site, but i am an ardent fan of rafi. i have been reading the posts in this thread. the topic is good but most of the people have connected rdb’s action in ignoring rafi with lata and asha. somebody had said that he preferred kk because both are bengali. that is also true but prehaps not the whole truth as per my thinking. most people also appear to have accepted that sd burman was pro rafi or rafi was his favourite or that he at least gave him the best tunes or that he has a special knack of selecting the best singer for each tune. to me all these are fallacies and i will support my argument with facts. we know that rafi was not a favourite with bengali mds be it salil, hemant or anil biswas. but i have made some research which will show sdb also in a poor light in this aspect. so here are the figures of sdb films with reference to rafi. the stats are based on the data given in the website earthmusic.net and i know that these are not final figures, but i hope they show the trends correctly.
– out of 33 films upto 1956 rafi got a meagre 7 (2 solos) songs
– out of 30 films from 1957 to 1965 rafi got 73 (45 solos) songs
– out of 26 films from 1966 onwards rafi got only 13 (3 solos) songs
now, here are the figures for kishore
– upto 1956 kishore got 21 (11 solos) songs
– from 1957 to 1965 he got 35 (15 solos) songs
– from 1966 onwards he got 60 (29 solos) songs
sdb scored for 4 films in 1957 and in two of them paying guest and nau do gyarah (both dev anand films) it was kk who was used by sdb except one duet ‘aaja panchhi akela hai’ in ndg featuring rafi and asha. sdb also gave one solo in ‘miss india’ to rafi. the 4th film was ‘pyaasa’ which was the one which was perhaps released first in that year. there is no need to see the reasons for the use of rafi for that as guru dutt had fixed him as the main male voice in ‘baaz’ ‘aar paar’ ‘mr and mrs 55’ ‘c.i.d.’, the films which were either directed or produced by him. so sdb cannot be given the credit for bringing in rafi as his main singer.
the other factors which contributed to rafi being continued as the main singer were the fact that sdb was having strained professional relations with lata, who had already started to show her teeth to the mds, and also some friction with kishore who was at the height of his acting career, because he acted in no less than 25 films during the four years of 1955 to 1958. this friction was so serious that sdb did not use kk as singer after ‘nau do gyarah’ until 1965 except for ‘chalti ka naam gadi’, ‘bewaqoof’, ‘apna hath jagannath’ and ‘naughty boy’ in which kishore was in the dual role of actor and singer. similarly, after a recording row with lata in the film ‘sitaron se aage’ sdb totally shut out her for more than 5 years. as everybody knows rafi and lata were the two golden voices of the golden period, so how could sdb make do without both of them if he was to compete with other mds who were using both of them regularly. another reason was that since pyaasa sdb was being acclaimed for the first time as a great md. earlier he had been just above average.
and what he did when he had got what he wanted. immediately after the phenomenal success of ‘guide’ and he being acclaimed as one of the greats and also after using rafi in 1966 in ‘teesri manzil’ for establishing his son, he immediately relegated rafi to the position of spare tyre and gave kk the main role. it was the modesty of rafi that he still continued to sing for both father and son. similarly he put asha, who had been faithful to him even in the face of antagonising lata, in the position of spare tyre once he made up with lata, in the name of ostensibly launching his son rdb in ‘chhote nawab’
so rdb has inherited selfishness, treachery, ungratefulness, meanness all from his father and there is no need to bring in asha or lata, though they might also have contributed.
so why was there a bengali conspiracy against rafi. to me there are two reasons. one is the long standing (in those times) rivalry between punjabi and bengali camps in bollywood and the other is that bengalis in gerneral cannot digest that there can be a greater non-bengali in any field. this i know by personal experience because i have many good bengali friends. so how there could be a singer better than their hemant or kishore. they also had nostalgic memories of the great singers like pankaj mallick and kc dey.
is this also a coincidence that in every controversy relating to rafi there is a bengali involved, be it ‘maya’ of salil ‘poochho na kaise’ (sdb and manna dey) or the ‘teesri manzil’ of rdb. they havent left any stone unturned.
it was for the purpose of remaining one up in the propaganda field that sdb opened a separate shop for rdb in the age of joint venture mdship. the stats also support the idea. sdb scored 7 films in 1960 and 3 in 1962 but none in 1961, why. because he was busy in launching his son through ‘chhote nawab’ you should remember that rdb had all along been assisting sdb in his films. after the commercial failure of that film kept rdb on the ground he continued in that role till 1965, the year in which he again scored two flop films in his name. Again, sdb took a break and first convinced nasir hussain to go with the name of rdb assuring that he will devote his whole attention to that film and then did not do any of his own film during that period. rdb’s status as md will always be under a cloud for this very reason that his father got him established by giving him his own tunes, musicians and expert advice. rdb failed miserably when he was left on his own.
this post has already got very long. i will continue on other points later.
ref mail 738,739,740,thanks a lot binuji & mohanflora sahab,for your comments on and your sharing information on rafi saab`s songs from 70-80s.
I am always of the opinion that by stregntening the weak you are not going to weaken the stronger,and everbody knew who was the stronger ( in his field)
Once again thanks a lot for your observations/comments.
Binu-ji,
Can you please elaborate more on Rajesh Roshan and Rafi-saab, I am very interested in knowing more inside information about their association. I would like to meet this great composer in the future.
Cheers
Sanjay arora ji…
yes.the media hype was for kk during the phase and binaca geet maala focussing on kk songs and discarding rafi songs. most of rdb songs were there and amin sayani was firmly in the kk camp by then.
when i asked amin sayani about this over lunch in dubai few years back amin bhai simply skipped the issue saying the KK wave was very strong. his favourite singer also happens to be kishore kumar. this is amin bhais personal choice .
but, did personal choices and other factors come in the way of rafi songs being played in binaca geet mala is the thought that bothers me.
binu nair
after more than 20 years of continuous singing the king needed a rest and this also coincided with aradhana’s success and KK coming in to form after a long struggle.
rafi seriously thought of retiring to london but naushad ali and close friends stopped the melody king from effecting it.
these friends arranged a doordarshan shoot of rafi with naushad ali where live songs like madhuban mein radhika and bhagwan, oh duniya ke rakhwale and others were recorded. the first take went for a six and the second take was “immaculate”.
many rafi lovers have this recordings with them and after this film “hawas” happened and teri galiyon mein became a hit, winning a award. this king was on the comeback trail and the rest is “music history”.
yes, main jat yamla also was a big hit and i was lucky to hear the king singing it at shanmukhananda hall months before the song actually became a hit.
seeing the kings singing mood, rafi fans that day was sure of one thing and that was that the king was on comeback trail after a short recess.
binu nair, mumbai….
An extract from Hamaraforums discussion by Princeali!
Here are the number of Rafi songs ‘released’ from the year 1975 onwards. The Source is Geet Kosh and (as you mentioned) Surjit Singh:
Rafi (1975-1980)
1975: 68
1976: 67
1977: 101
1978: 91
1979: 84
1980: 265
The figures for 1980 also include Rafi songs released in the years after 1980 which were recorded before July 31st 1980. As per these figures, once Rafi’s total jumps in 1977, it stays consistent for about two years before jumping in a huge way in the last year of his life. The songs released in 1980 could have been recorded prior to that year (i.e 1979) and the same can be said about previous years before that. Now let us compare these stats with the years 1970-1974:
Rafi (1970-1974)
1970: 131
1971: 131
1972: 95
1973: 80
1974: 83
Now here is something interesting. Now let me post the Kishore stats for comparison purposes:
Kishore (1970-1980)
1970: 47
1971: 102
1972: 137
1973: 146
1974: 137
1975: 106
1976: 103
1977: 147
1978: 122
1979: 77
1980: 126
Now take a look at the stats when comparing Rafi and Kishore in terms of Total Output. Even after Aradhana (I always maintain this film didn’t do anything to Rafi, but only raised Kishore’s popularity), Rafi still had more released songs than Kishore in 1970 and 1971. Come 1972, Kishore’s total is more and he maintains this until 1979 where Rafi regains numero uno in Total output (ofcourse by 77 he was already commercially back on top with Kishore). The rest of the stats show that Kishore’s output year by year isn’t that much over Rafi’s ouput. The only years where Rafi seems to have a lean period where the output decreased a little is 1976. So according to stats this dispels the notion that Rafi was gone and he made a comeback, since he was always there.
Now for the ‘hits’ angle, for the years 1970-1980, and based on the BGM charts, Rafi had hits every year from 1970-1980. 1970 and 1971 had major Rafi hits but surprisingly in 1971 he seemed to have very little presence on the BGM charts which is quite surprising, maybe some manipulation took place. Let’s list some 1971 films, Caravan, Mela, The Train, Pyar Ki Kahani, Gambler, Aap Aaye Bahar Ayee, Maryada, Rakhwala, Andaz, Mehboob Ki Mendhi, Mera Gaon Mera Desh etc. I don’t think anyone would argue that the Rafi songs from these films weren’t hits.
From 72-76 he had hits on the charts but the representation was not as much as 70 and 71 (even if the 1971 BGM list has very little Rafi, we can assume many of his hits were played on the radio that year). Songs that may have been hits may not have made it to the charts, but it doesn’t mean they weren’t hit songs.
Then from 77-82 Rafi’s hits keep increasing, and particularly the years 1979-1982, according to the BGM trends it was a Rafi ‘mini-wave’ where Rafi was everywhere and very little of other singers around. So Kishore who found himself on the rise from 1971 and a few years after found himself facing the same situation from 79-82. Ofcourse Rafi ruled supreme for two plus decades where no other singer touched him so what happened in the years 1970-1980 don’t really matter when talking about Rafi’s greatness, but it still is interesting to discuss it.
Brinkster used to have a list of BGM songs from 1970-1980, including extra songs that weren’t in the Top 30 or so but nonetheless hits. They took out those stats from the net so they can’t be posted here.
I could easily post a BGM chart of the top hits of the year from 1970-1980, but that would not give the complete picture of Rafi’s hits in particular years. Even if we do get charts that look complete, they may not be. We would have to have a really good source to list most of the hit songs of each particular year. I will look into this and try and find somewhat complete charts.
For example in the year 1976, Rafi had hits in Nagin, Charas, Jaaneman, Mausam, Bairaag, Laila Majnu etc. but the lists don’t show all the songs from those films, so in other words they are incomplete. Also, if certain songs don’t make it to a partcular list (like the ones on Google), it does not mean they weren’t hits.
ref: post 733,734,735 and 736,thanks a lot for responding to my mail ,
howeveron going thru the films released from 1971-1974 and beyond that the badshah was again in top form,my observations are,
in 1971 rafi saab had good number of hit songs in films like,Aap aaye bahar aayee,Andaaz,Banphool,Bikhre moti,Caravan,Chahat,Choti Bahu,Ek Paheli,
Gambler,Haathi Mere Saathi,Jaane Anjaane,Jawan Mohabbat,Lal Patthar
Maryada,Mehbbob ki Mehndi,Mela,Mera Gaon Mera Desh,Seema,Umeed,Yaar Mera ,these movies had top stars like Dharmendra,Rajesh Khanna,Rajendra Kumar,Feroz Khan and Jeetendra,and all mds from LP,SJ,KA,RDB
In 1972 Rafi Saab had hit songs in films like Aan Baan,Anuraag,Dastaan,Gora Aur Kala,Jeet,Kaanch aur Heera,Lalkar,Mom ki Gudiya,Parchaiyan,Piya Ka Ghar,Roop Tera Mastana,Shararat,Tangewala,these movies again had stars like Dharmendra,Rajendra Kumar,Vinod Khanna.
In 1973 Rafi saab had hit songs in films like Abhimaan,Dharma,Ek Naari Do Roop,Hanste Zakham,Heera,Hindustaan Ki Kasam,Loafer,Naina,Samjhauta,
Suraj Aur Chanda,Yadon Ki Baraat,these movies again stars like Dharmendra,
Shashi Kapoor,Sunil Dutt,and an upcoming Amitabh Bachchan
In 1974 Rafi Saab had hit songs in Benaam,Chor MachayeShor,Dost,Gaal
Gulabi Nain Sharabi,Geeta Mera Naam,Hawas,Haath Ki Safai,Humshakal,
Majboor,Kunwara Baap and these films had stars like Dharmendra,Shashi Kapoor,Vinod Khanna,Rajesh Khanna
Based on the above I am of the opinion that there never was a roughpatch .if at all is because of the reluctance on part of Rafi Saab as Mr.Binu Nair has told us thru his mail on the subject issue.
The same can be attributed because of media also,as Mr.Bharatan was repeatedly wrinting on this issue.however Mr.Bharatan wrote a monthly article in filmfare subsequently in eighties about Rafi Saab`s association with MDs.
However Mr.Nair I fully agree with you that the Hawas song was the Turning point but I may also point that it was Dharamji`s Pratiggya number`Main Jat Yamla Pagla Deewana`under LP,that Rafi Saab was in Top Form and the rest as you have written ,THE BADSHAH LEAVES THE WORLD AS HE SHOULD HAVE LEFT.
Thank you Binu sir for the informations. This is what I meant when speaking about the bad times. It was not that Rafisahab was without work or something… just that he wasn’t the same (in terms of popularity and commercial success) as in the previous couple of decades when he was singing for every actor (heroes or not), every MD (atleast most of them), every style..
Yes, one can’t expect gratefulness in this slippery and muddy industry called film industry. But it didn’t really matter (for Rafi sahab) at the end of the day.. he tided over this phase and remained where he belonged till his last…
re : post 732 ; yes there was a drought of rafi songs post 1972. one may call it a bad phase or any thing and a section of the media including raju bharatans played a role in snubbing rafi saaheb.
i remember , a discussion in the illustrated weekly went on for three months and rafi saaheb himself thought his singing days are over but naushad saaheb and rafi saahebs close friends – rubbished these thoughts away from rafi’s mind.
I say there was a drought of rafi songs as we rafi fans waited for “just one” song to emerge and we used to lap it up. slowly, rafi fans brought back rafi saaheb in various ways and it was during these years that rafi took to the stage giving great performances at many many centres.
the period also saw the decline of r.d.burman and rise of l and p.
after teri galiyon me na rakhenge getting an award (from hawas – md. usha khanna) rafi’s confidence and form was back .
the rest is histor y. the king regains his rightful throne and then leave this world : his head held high.
as a rafi lover said : a king is always a king.
Binu Nair. mumbai.
Kya hua tera waada was given to rafi saaheb on the insistence of mrs.nasir hussain and post recording r.d.b. was not too happy with the recording a music bluff informs. bt the song created waves nd history. similarly, darde dil went to rafi saaheb, l and p vetoed the producers call and this song also became a milestone.
similarly prasdad productions wanted the song :hum tum, yug yug se ye geet… to be in rafis voice but l and p vetoed and the song became masterpieces.
this has been shared by veteran composers including pyarelal saaheb . no i am not in the habit of carrying cameras, recorders to any meet and hence pls do not ask for proof.
binu nair. mumbai.
Post 732 : yes. post 1972, for a few years rafi saaheb was ignored by the film industry and all of a sudden people were at a loss to understand the “real” reason. and even today we are debating it and occassionally scared of entering in to a controversey with the powers that be and there hangers-on.
yes. there was a rajesh khanna wave and kishore kumar reaped the harvest. but, after the wave subsided – what happened . rafi saaheb was let down by the same producers/actors who basked in the glory of the “rafi era” and ran laughing to the bank everytime a rafi song brought in great returns.
but few producers stood rock firm for rafi saaheb and i will name them.
Manmohan desai, nasir hussain, nadiadwalas and few more.
composers who stood by rafi and got great hits and boosted the morale of rafi saaheb were : l and p, rajesh roshan, usha khanna and some of the small time composers like ganesh, shamji ganshamji, roshan lal and many others for whom rafi saaheb sang their songs for a “single rupee”.
don’t also forget that we are living in a world where “greatfullness” is fast receding as a human trait for the lure of the lucre.
binu nair….rafi foundation… mumbai.
Sanjayji, I know that this is a particularly sensitive issue for all the Rafians (myself included). But I personally would like to face things as it is. I may be wrong too in assuming that Rafisahab did go thru a rough patch (let me describe it that way), for I wasn’t there to watch and feel it, my assumption is based on what I’ve read and heard (which includes the baadshah’a own statements and his admission to Naushad saab that he wasn’t feeling like going on..).
As you know things are mostly relative… one can argue that Rafisahab never really had a bad phase since he always had some good songs and he sang them only as he could. We all know that there wasn’t really anyone who could challenge him in terms of sheer singing capabilities, as well.
But there are other ways of looking at it .. Personally I don’t wish to debate it here.. And I wouldn’t like to comment on Lataji’s stature vis-a-vis Alka Yagnik’s too..
re mail 730,mr.cherian ,please advise me when there was a lean phase,if a singer is not singing more songs in a particular year,does it amount to being in a lean phase,going by your observation,can we say lata ji is in a constant lean phase since late eighties,as alka yagnik has sung more hits and number of songs than lataji,can the same yardstick be applied,reasons can be there for lataji not singing.
Mr. Myk.
I’ve listened to all the songs you referred except the “Kudrat” one, I can’t find it in either youtube or Hummaa…
I’d classify these songs into two broad categories #1 is the intricate ones, with their subtle throws and flow.. like ‘tumhe dekha hai…..’ (which is a nice song, wonderfully sung by Rafisahab, almost a throw back on his ’60s songs and the voice). These types of songs, historically, have always been acclaimed by musically inclined people.. but more often than not (especially in the ’70s) given a miss by the common movie-watchers unless there were other compelling reasons (commercially succesful film, picturised on a big stars, the sheer brilliance of song picturisation etc.). ‘tu hai mere prem devtaa…’ or ‘poocho na kaise…’ were exceptions,rather than the rule (only my personal view). Qualitatively too I don’t suppose any of these songs compared favorably with their ’50s and ’60s counterparts -like ‘madhuban mei raadhika….’ or ‘humko tumhari ishk ne…’ (I believe this particular song is in the same genre)-
The #2 category would include ‘hain agar dushman….’ and ‘pal do pal ka…’. Infact these are the kinds of songs that rafisahab missed during much of his lean phase; qualitatively good but not too intricate or subtle and as a result loved and heralded by the average movie-watcher. If these types of songs turned out to bigger hits than an artistically better ‘pyar hai ek nishan…’ there’s no surprise, they were meant (or destined) to be so…
I suppose things are becoming clearer to me… RDB never really wanted to give the #2 types of songs (meant to be crowd-pullers) to Rafisahab unless there were other reasons.. he called upon the ‘baadshah’ to render those songs (generally speaking) which only he could do (well) and which were meant to be appreciated by the class (RDB cared for them too, it seems) rather than the mass.
Post 723. “Nava Kalpana” from Mrig Trichna was a beautiful and melodious classical song sung by Rafiji. The lyrics are bit Sanskritised but Rafiji’s pronounciation is pucca. No other Singer could have done justice to this song. This song was picturised on Hema malini’s dance and Hema has admitted that she really enjoyed doing this dance number.
In my previous post, I meant that Pancham was going through a low period in the late 80’s. I forgot to menion the “late 80’s” part.
Mr. XXX,
I think the Nasir Husain banner was the most important banner for Pancham. After all, it was after Teesri Manzil that Pancham gained recognition, and it was with that album and HKKN that he revolutionized music. Pancham was going through a low period at that time, and the two previous NS films, Manzil Manzil and Zabardast had both flopped too. It was the Nasir Husain banner that could have marked his comeback with Qayamat Se Qayamat Tak. Instead Pancham was dropped from this banner, the banner that he gave his best music to. It didn’t matter that the Sippy’s or the Chopra’s or any other banner left him, the big one and most important one was the NS banner. Had Pancham been taken for QSTK, I’m sure he would have felt rejuvenated and come back strongly. Rafi and Pancham were pillars of the NH banner.
What do you think about this ?.
RDB was never close even to LP, leave SJ, MM, Ravi, Naushad, and others…
Re. Post 715: All fake stories. Is there any audio proof? I am sure the answer is “No”. I have seen a picture where RDB cry when Rafi Saheb expired! Can anyone ask Asha Bhosle about this story? I am sure she’ll also say NO!!!
Mr.Rafian
Thanks so much for the links. I’ve listened to most of them… enjoyed them. Could you come up with your favourite songs between ’76-’80?
Yeah.. ‘humein tumse pyar…’ was nicely sung by KK. I also like KK very much in ‘pal pal dil ke paas….’, ‘o sathire…’, ‘yeh jeevan hai…’ and many others. Actually KK’s voice had many shades (though not as much as Rafisahab’s) and it sounded good in ‘Kishorean’ songs and under MDs who knew how to get the best out of him.
Mr.Myk
I’m in the preocessing of hearing those songs, will be back with my views.
All
‘Mere naina…’ by KK isn’t aesthetically anywhere near Lataji’s version.. but see the kind of popularity it has… this is where KK’s scored… he made songs hummable and singable with his less-than-perfect rendition and a voice that is more earthy than divine.
Mr. XXX,
I agree, I think “Is mod se jaate hain” and “Tere bina zindagi se koi” were better compositions than “Nagma Hamara”, however as you said, rendition wise, “Nagma Hamara” is better than all the duets in Aandhi. “Tum aa gaye ho” is good, but there are better duets by Pancham in this category. For me Aandhi is all about Lata. Kishore sounded completely flat in the first two duets, Pancham should have taken Rafi for them and left “Tum aa gaye ho” to KK. Instead, Rafi is used for the mediocre “Salaam kijiye” which he managed to turn into a good song just because he sang it. “Beete na beetayi raina” did win the National Award, I think both this song and the Bulandi gem are winners for Pancham, as you said its hard to choose which song is better. I also agree that Pancham chose singers other than Rafi based on his personal relationships with them. Bhupinder was definitely a good singer, in fact I don’t mind if Pancham used him in some of his classical scores, because he was classicaly trained and a good ghazal singer, but the use of KK was silly, and a joke, if Rafi was not used then Manna/Bhupinder would have been my next preference, but using KK is going overboard. No matter how much he tried, he didn’t have the voice and skills to sing classical-based/flavoured songs.
Listen to the Lata version of “Mere naina sawan bhadon” and notice the haunting alaap as well as the great tabla rhythm, all missing in the KK version. I really wish Rafi sang the male version, we would have seen the alaaps as well as the great tabla use, and he would have taken this song to great heights. However its alright, because songs like “Pyar hai ik nishan qadmon ka”, “Tumhein dekha hai maine”, “Wadiyan mera daman” and other songs (in general and also in the classical genre) are all amongst the career-best of Pancham. Pancham referred to “Tumhein dekha hai maine” as his ‘prized composition’.
There are two excellent songs from Mrig Trishna in the 70’s composed by Shambu Sen, “Sun man ke meet” (Lata), and “Nav kalpana nav roop se” (Rafi). How would you rate these two songs ?. Shambu Sen’s brother Dilip, and Dilip’s son Sameer, formed the Dilip Sen-Sameer Sen duo.
Mr.myk,
bhupi was good and well trained classical singer, madan ji also used him very effectively,i think the only problem with his voice was lack of melody. he did quite a well job with rd’s tunes, but yes singer like rafi ji would have turned those compositions to pure gold as we all know that how much melodious this person was, as nayyar sahab rightly said that “singer to bahut aaye magar rafi ki awaaz mein jo khanak thi wo kisi mein nahi thi”.i think pancham’s selection of singers was highly influenced by the personal relationships he shared, bhupi was his ace guitarist and good friend and kishore too was his great friend so that might have been the possible reason.
i think aandhi songs composition wise better than the bundalbaaz duet, kk did great job in “tum aa gaye ho”, but he was not at all comfortable with “is mod se jate hain”, what do you think?? no “harkats” no “aalaps” nothing, only flat singing(comparatively) with a heavy voice(which killing the melody of the song) .. and “tere bina zindagi se” is all about lata ji…
regarding that bundalbaaz song it reminds me of the two songs, roshan ji’s “rahe na rahe hum” and dada burman’s “din dhal jaaye(bcoz of similar thaat)”. as we all know that pancham was big fan of this song “din dhal jaaye” and he many times get inspired by this song, another example is “abke na sawan barse(kinara 1977)” .. rendition wise this song was superior to the aandhi songs but this duet went unnoticed as movie bombed at the box office.
similarly that bulandi song is rendition wise and overall better than the “beeti na bitayi” and its tough for me to tell which composition was better. “beeti na bitayi” was national award winnig song but bulandi song again went unnoticed.
Dear Rafising,
Are you into some mischief and creating unnecessary controversies?
Infact you have not heard the fabulous 50s and the swinging 60s of Rafi saab’s lilting evergreen melodies to mention that the legend doesn’t have variety.Please come out of the symbolic frogs’s well and listen to atleast 200 hits of the greatest singer Rafi saab.
As for RDB he is several notches below his masters Shanker Jaikishen who were the greatest MDs in all aspects.
I fullu endorse Sanjay’s views
Sanjay Aroraji,
I disagree with you. I do not even remember 5 songs (and not ten) of the 139 films you have named. After seeing the names of these 139 movies, I have to change my opinion further about RDB. I always considered him a good MD (Though not great MD) but now I have to revise my opinuion. A hall mark of any good MD is that he should be fairly consistent. In the case of MM, Naushad, SDB and OPN, we can safely say that their bad or rather not so good songs can be numbered on fingers in their career. But in the case of RDB, if the number of films are so much that most people do not remember the songs, that means he was very very inconsistent and can never be bracketed with other great MDs. Even he was talented, we should say that he wasted his talent.
Sanjay ji:
You have a company in me, if you rate RDB well below the 50s/60s greats, below Khayyam, Jaidev, Ravi and LP. Off course there are several yard sticks and parameters in assessing a performer. Haldar Sir has opined at the start of this thread that one has to be judged on the basis of their best out-puts and one can’t really disagree with as knowledgable a person as him. Personally, I also assess performers (not just artists) in that manner, for intance I rate Mcenroe and Becker ahead of Borg and Lendl respectively, simply because at their best these two were just too brilliant for their more consistent rivals.
Coming to RDB, he did compose genuine, beautiful, brilliant and different tunes.. but these were intervened by really mediocre scores and blatantly copied tunes. Agree with many that others also lifted tunes but none did it as blatantly and as frequently and I don’t suppose any other well known MDs composed as much trash. He needed more ‘chingaries…’ and ‘musafir hun yaroons..’ to off-set all those xerox copies and craps to be a termed a real great (that’s speaking for myself).
ref mail 715,what you are referring as your interview is nothing but a photocopy of raju bharatn`s interview (hope you are not raju bharatan writing mails under the pseudoname).
RDB the most versatile composer,the biggest joke of the century.if you have
heard rdb music even casually,it is the same rythym ,the same expressionless male voice in 80 % of composition ,even a person who casually and rarely listens to hindi film music can make out this is a rdb composition.i am giving a list of his hindi film`s ,please advise me where is the versatility.
1 BADA KABUTAR
2 CHHALIA
3 DO PHOOL
4 DOUBLE CROSS
5 HEERA PANNA
6 HIFAZAT
7 JAISE KO TAISA
8 JOSHILA
9 MR.ROMEO
10 NAFRAT
11 5 DUSHMAN
12 RAJA RANI
13 RICKSHWALA
14 SHAREEF BADMASH
15 DIL DIWANA
16 DOOSRI SITA
17 GOONJ
18 IMAAN
19 ISHK ISHK ISHK
20 MADHOSH
21 MANORANJAN
22 SHAITAAN
23 TRIMURTI
24 ZAHREELA INSAAN
25 DEEWAR
26 KALA SONA
27 DHARAM KARAM
28 RAAJA
29 WARRANT
30 BALIKA BADHU
31 KHALIFA
32 MAHA CHOR
33 CHALA MURARAI HERO BAN NE
34 CHALTA PURZA
35 CHANDI SONA
36 CHOR HO TO AISA
37 HEERA LAL PANNA LAL
38 NAYA DAUR
39 BHALA MANUSH
40 SALAAM MEMSAAB
41 AANCHAL
42 BULUNDI
43 ALIBABA AUR CHAILIS CHOR
44 DHAN DAULAT
45 GUNEHGAAR
46 QATIL KAUN
47 PHIR WOHI RAAT
48 TAKKAR
49 BIWI O BIWI
50 DAULAT
51 DHUAN
52 GEHRA ZAKHAM
53 GHUNGROO KI AWAAZ
54 JAIL YATRA
55 KACHCHE HEERE
56 MANGALSUTRA
57 RAKSHA
58 SATTE PE SATTA
59 AAMNE SAAMNE
60 ADHURA AADMI
61 ASHAANTI
62 BEMISAAL
63 DARD KA RISHTA
64 GANGA MERI MAA
65 SWAMI DADA
66 YEH TO KAMAL HO GAYA
67 AAN AUR SHAAN
68 BINDIYA CHAMKEGI
69 BOXER
70 FARISHTA
71 KAUN KAISE
72 MAHAAN
73 MAIN AWARA HOON
74 MAZDOOR
75 PUKAR
76 RANG BIRANGI
77 ROMANCE
78 SHUBHKAAMNA
79 ANAND AUR ANAND
80 ANDHAR BAHAR
81 AWAAZ
82 BHEEMA
83 DUNIYA
84 HUM DONO
85 HUM HAIN LAJAWAB
86 JAGIR
87 JHUTA SACH
88 KARISHMA
89 YEH DESH
90 ZAMEEN AASMAAN
91 AAR PAAR
92 ALAG ALAG
93 AWARA BAAP
94 BOND 303
95 EK SE BHALE DO
96 HUM NAUJAWAN
97 LAVA
98 RAHI BADAL GAYE
99 RAM TERE KITNE NAAM
100 OONCHE LOG
101 SHIVA KA INSAAF
102 ANOKHA RISHTA
103 JEEVA
104 PALEY KHAN
105 SHATRU
106 ZINDAGANI
107 APNE APNE
108 BELAGAAM
109 DACAIT
110 HIFAZAT
111 INAAM DUS HAZAAR
112 ITIHAAS
113 MARDON WALI BAAT
114 AAG SE KHELENGE
115 DOST
116 BAHURANI
117 JOSHILAY
118 JURRAT
119 CHOR PE MOR
120 DUSHMAN
121 JEENO DO
122 KHARIDAAR
123 ZALZALA
124 GUNEHGAAR KAUN
125 INDRAJEET
126 JHOOTI SHAAN
127 DROHI
128 JAI SHIV SHANKAR
129 JANAM SE PEHLE
130 KHULE AAM
131 SARPHIRA
132 SIYASAT
133 GARDISH
134 GURUDEV
135 TUM KARO VAADA
136 PROFESSOR KI PADOSAN
137 GHATAK
138 YAAR MERI ZINDAGI
139 ANYAAY HI ANYAAY
yOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REMEMBER NOT MORE THAN 10 SONGS FROM THE ABOVE 139 FILMS.
THE MOST VERSATILE COMPOSER WAS SHANKAR JAIKISHAN ( NO PERSONNAL OPINION ),THE MELODY,THE ORCHESTRA WITHOUT ANY STEREO IMPACT,THE WAY THEY RECORDED THE SONGS OF `JIS DESH MEIN GANGA BEHTI HAIN`,SPECIALLY `AA AB LAUT CHALE`LISTEN TO IT ON YOUR HEADPHONE .
SJ NEVER COMPROMISED ON QUALITY,NO SINGER PREFRENCE,ALTHOUGH RAFI SAAB WAS THEIR FAVOURITE,THEY NEVER IMPOSED SINGER.HEAR THE VERSATILITY OF SHANKAR JAIKISHAN IN
1) BARSAAT ( ALL TYPE OF SONGS)
2 ) PROFESSOR
3 ) GUMNAAM
4) POONAM
5 ) HALAKU ( LISTEN TO RAFI SAAB DUET -AAJA KE INTEZAAR)
6 ) AMRAPALI (HAUNTING SONGS BY LATA -TUMHE YAAD KARTE /TADAP YE DIN RAAT KI )
7 ) CHOTI SEE MULAQAT ( TITLE SONG AND THE RAFI SAAB SUMAN DUET-TUJHE DEKHA TUJHE CHAHA )
8 ) SUARJ ( PURE CLASSICALDUET BY RAFI SAAB /ASHA)
9 ) SASURAAL
10 ) HAMRAAHI
11 ) SEEMA
12 ) AURAT
13 ) KATHPUTLI
14 ) LOVE IN TOKYO
THE LIST IS ENDLESS AND THE HIT LIST IS MORE THAN THE FLOP LIST OF RDB
Mr. XXX,
I fully agree with you, Pancham’s best classical compositions went to Lata. The only aspect where Asha scored over Lata in the classical department was qawwali’s, where her and Rafi shone. I also agree, Pancham’s career best compositions came from Rafi, so many would feature among Pancham’s all-time best. I don’t know how Pancham being so talented and so knowledgeable, gave his other classical compositions to Bhupinder or Kishore. Even in Mehbooba, Manna was given a solo, and no Rafi in this film. Why did he shy away from the best male classical singer, the singer that Pandit Gyan Prakash Ghosh, (the doyen of classical music), considered to be the greatest male singer in classical music, the singer that most MD’s, singers, lyricists etc. all hailed as the first and last word in singing, as well as the singer who his father (SDB) had even said was miles ahead of the rest.
The scores of Aandhi, Mehbooba, Kinara etc. were all made for Rafi, only to be salvaged by the vocals of Lata, who sang her solos and duets beautifully, and in her duets outshone her male counterparts completely in all the songs where there was no Rafi. Had Rafi been there, we would have heard a classical treat just like in “Nagma Hamara” and in countless other classical songs they have sung together. For example, Aandhi is a big disappointment from the male perpsective, Pancham had a beautiful chance to employ Rafi here, and he missed it big time. Lata glides through the songs, she is wonderful and sweet to the ears, whereas Kishore is shrill and struggling. As you mentioned Dada’s choice of singers was superb, something Pancham should have picked up, but didn’t. For a person who had so much classical knowledge, you would expect him to make the best decisions when it came to choosing the right singer. He could have maximized the beauty of his other classical compositions by taking Rafi-saab, but he chose not to, and in the end, he lost out and no one else. I think Pancham realized this later on, and when he was all set and ready for a second innings with Rafi in the 80’s, maybe then he was going to give him more classical-based songs. However, thank goodness he gave Rafi-saab the qawwali’s, and other classical songs, it would have been sad had they been sung by others. This is not to say Pancham didn’t make good use of Rafi in his classical-based or raaga-based songs, he did, but he could have even more.
The orchestration in those three songs you mentioned shows SDB’s genius. Dada Burman was a master MD who could bring out the best emotion in such limited use of instruments, something which was a hallmark of Madan Mohan as well. They could use so few instruments, and express each one in such a unique way, that the message they were trying to get across would be conveyed with so much depth and feeling. SDB showed that you don’t need a large orchestra to construct a good song. You could also write so much things about each of those six songs that you mentioned, such is the quality of them all. All the songs are masterpiece creations and all milestones in itself.
Now comparing father and son when it comes to orchestration is interesting. I think they both were different and unique and excellent in their own respective ways. I agree when you say Dada’s orchestration complemented the song, it was like an ornament to the melody. Dada always believed that the music should never overpower the vocals. His music was the perfect blend of softness, sweetness and melody all packaged into one. On the other hand, Pancham was more on the opposite side, he threw more to the wind, experimented more with orchestration, he always tried new sounds. I think both were excellent in choosing the right instruments for a song, and both were very creative as well. This is not to say Dada did not experiment with his music, he definitely did as well. The best of both the Burmans came through Rafi, and this is a fact. Take out Rafi from both of their repertoires and you will find it dull. Also, take out Rafi from most MD’s repertoires, and it will be dull too.
Mr. XXX, please compare the three duets of Aandhi, “Is mod se jaate hain”, “Tere bina zindagi se koi” and “Tum aa gaye ho” to one duet from Budalbaaz “Nagma Hamara” and tell me which song you think is the best taking all factors into consideration, from both the male and female side (i.e singing, melody, composition etc.). Also, how would you compare Lata-Bhupinder’s “Beete na beetayi raina” from Parichay to Rafi-Asha’s “Hum jab ek saath hai” from Bulandi ?. Also, why do you think Pancham chose Bhupinder and KK (besides being his favourite) for his other classical songs ?.
Post 715 rafisings – RDB greatest ever – this statement baffles me. Of all the md’s rdb starting his career in 1966 finds it hard to teach rafi saheb who was already singning proffesionaly since 1944 and an icon by the time rdb started on his own. if he had not died before lata, he would probably have dared to say something similar.
it is with great pain i give my views on this article which has gone on too long and is an insult to real great mds.
RD Burman the most versatile composer ever
He scored for 331 films in 32 years. How does his Kishore Kumar son-tal-ly compare with Asha Bhosle’s? Where Kishore sang 558 songs for him (227 solo, 245 duests), Asha rendered 840 of his compositions (406 solo, 338 duets).
He married Asha 14 years after he wed Rita Patel. His 14th death anniversary it is tomorrow and I have him, speaking here, in June of 1991, R D Burman was a trendsetter without peer by then, so I asked if he still rated Chhote Nawab (1961) , his first, as his best.
“I do, if only because Lata Mangeshkar wasn’t any longer singing for Dada Burman when Mehmood asked me to compose Chhote Nawab. Those days you were ‘made’ if you got Lataji to render your maiden song. So I told Dada pointblank I was ringing Lataji.
Actually Lataji too – I found out later – wanted to get back to Dada! So she readily agreed to sing Ghar aa jaa for me.
“Did you, initially, set Ghar aa jaa as Raag Bhimpalasi in the Kaafi thhaat? Or was it in that thhaat from the word go – to unfold as Raag Maalgunji? â€
Memories
“Who but you could pose such a query? All I know is I slipped into the Kaafij thhaat while composing Ghar aa jaa, so call it Maalgunji, if you like. In the face of having scored a thousand-and-one songs since, Ghar aa jaa remains my best. The memory of the legendary Lataji agreeing to sing so readily for a fresher like me makes Ghar aa jaa unique.â€
“There were those three Lata- Rafi Chhote Nawab duets – Aaj huaa meraa dil matwaala, Matwalee aankhon waale and Jeene waale muskuraa ke jee. Today you openly say you never cared for Rafi. But, at the 1966 Chhote Nawab stage, you must’ve felt grateful to have our No. 1 male singer as your playback?â€
“No doubt Rafi was No. 1 then,†conceded Pancham. “But I’d rehearsed Rafi so often for Dada that I could go along with him so far, no further. It was so tough to get Rafi to amend something you’d already taught him!â€
“Take my breakthrough Asha Rafi Teesri Manzil duet – Aa jaa aa jaa,†recalled Pancham. “Rafi wasn’t able to grasp the nuances of Aa jaa aa jaa at all!
How Rafi struggled as Asha so exemplarily stretched the crucial Aaha-ha aa jaa aaha-ha aa jaa notes. Give me Kishore any time – he would’ve latched on to it in a trice!â€
Difficult Task
“Easy to say that 25 years after it happened,†I noted. “Didn’t it all happen because you never were patient with Rafi – like O P Nayyar was with Asha – to be able to draw the most resonant results from the man who sang Tum ne mujhe dekhaa for you in the same Teesri Manzil! ?â€
“Only I know how I got Rafi to do Tum ne mujhe dekhaa! †insisted Pancham. “With OP, remember, Rafi was on his home Punjabi ground. I don’t agree I was more patient with Kishore, not so patient I was with Rafi, he slipped into the same vocal error – time and again.
Kishore – you had to teach him but once, he was onto it like a shot. See the feel Kishore brought to Chingaree koii bhadke. But that’s straight Bhairavi even for Kishore.â€
“Straight Bhairavi or not, see how Kishore makes it sound as if he’s singing Chingare for you, and you alone, in Amar Prem.â€
Mr.myk,
rafi-pancham classical combo was great, infact whenever pancham composed his raaga based quawwallis he took the services of rafi sahab, their very first quawwalli “koi aane ko hai” to last one “yar mil gaya to” and in between all those quawwallis were nice, and some of them were amongst the hfm’s best quawwalis like “hai agar dushamn” “kya takalluf hai walla” & “pal do pal ka sath hamara” ….
however his masterpiece classical compositions went to lata(nam gum jayega(duet),raina beeti jaye) … but there is no doubt in my mind that his career best compositions came through rafi ji {vaadiya mera daman, tumhe dekha hai gulsita mein,pyar hai ek nishaan} .. but from the period of 1970-75 he served his kheer to kishore. but still his best trendy solo from this period(gulabi aakhen) and best trendy duet(chura liya hai tumne jo dil ko) came through rafi.
pancham recorded 122 songs with rafi and let me admit that 10-12 out of them are really mediocre ones as pancham was always in the habit of churning out mediocre stuff side by side, but iam sure that at least 110 out of them were good to ears and majority of them were great like “vaadiya mera daman” “deewana mujsa nahi” “pyar hai ek nishan” “zamane ne maare ” and those legendary rock ‘n’ rolls and quawwalis.
sdb was superb in the selection of singers, he did 96 songs(lesser than rd) with rafi ji, now just consider these 6 out of those 96 and tell me what do you think, did any md-singer pair surpassed them other than naushad-rafi??…
1.jinhe naaz hai hind par
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pOGczQ1VEKw
2.ye mehlo ye takhto ye taazo ki dunia
http://youtube.com/watch?v=0yhdnIEQAgc
3.dekhi zamane ki yaari
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WnyknG0GEBM
4.din dhal jaaye
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xJuK5K0zCa0
5.kya se kya ho gaya
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tMMHDuaJls4
6.tere mere sapne
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LGSzOK_am6E
Mr.myk, what is your take on the orchestration by dada in first three songs, how would you compare his orchestration with that of pancham? i think dada’s orchestration was minimal but meaningful and always complimanting the melody of the song.
Ref. Post 707:
Mr. Haldar, I do agree with you, I think Pancham made the wrong choice in giving many of his classical numbers to KK. It’s sad that he had to compromise on the quality by taking his favourite.
Most classical songs by Pancham are excellent because of Lata, even in the duets, its Lata who steals the show over KK or Bhupinder. Had Rafi or Manna been called to render such songs, Pancham could have had similar results from the male side. I don’t think Dada Burman would have approved of Pancham taking KK for such songs. Pancham was a learned composer in his own right, and its shocking that he made such bad decisions when being so learned. The songs of Aandhi, Kinara, Mehbooba, Parichay etc. were all made for Rafi, and would have been much better had Rafi sang them. However Pancham and Rafi also have their share of classical-based/flavoured gems which make Pancham’s repertoire rich. Had Dada Burman composed for such themes, he would have surely taken Rafi for the majority of the male songs or maybe all the male songs, and maybe Manna for others.
Mr. Haldar, besides KK being his favourite, what were other reasons Pancham made such nonsense decisions ?. Why did he shy away from Rafi when it came to such a theme ?. Why did he have to resort to Bhupinder (besides KK) when Rafi could have done wonders to those compositions ?.
Btw, the version of “mere naina sawan bhadon” I was referring to was by Lata. I don’t consider the KK version to be anything remotely related to classical music, whereas the Lata version can be defined as a classical song.
Rafi was a one road singer no variety.
Yes indeed “Mere Naina Savan Bhadon” sung by KK is expectionly well but not effortless like in the case of Lata. The song over exposes KK’s trembling at high scale, which sometimes pinches our ears. There is a similar song “O Majhi Re” where again KK’s high scale operation is exposed. Instead I appreciate LP’s use of KK for the classical number from “Anurodh”; “Aap Ke Anurodh Mein”. KK is brillant here, since LP don’t over expose him to higher scale like Pancham.
Regarding Manna dey I don’t think Pancham used him effectively; instead he has used Bhupindar for a few classical based songs. Examples “Biti Na Bitai Renaa”; “Naam Gum Jayega”; “Huzoor Es Kadar Bhi Na”; etc. Bhupindar sang these songs quiet well. But with use of Manna Dey / Rafi these songs could have been superior.
Possibly may be Pancham tried to use KK as per Rafi’s capability, but not much success.
‘Mere naina ‘ is a wonderfull wonderful Composition from RDB.No doubt about that.If you listen to the Lata version you can understand the beauty of it.’Humey tumse pyar’ from Kudrat is alsoexcellent song where K.K has sung with a soft voice and So it became a gem of a song(When ever K.K sung with a soft voice I like him.What about you friends?)
DEAR SHRI. HALDARJI,
I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU. THE “MERE NAINA SAWAN BHADON” OF KK IS A OVERHYPED SONG, WHICH SHOULD HAVE BEEN SUNG BY RAFIJI.
A poll to select your favourite mohd rafi website
http://www.twiigs.com/poll/Entertainment/Music/12264
ref post 706:
myk, you may not agree with me, but pancham didn’t reserve his best classical songs for rafi. Whenever he could, he gave his classical compositions to Kishore and Manna. Some of kishore’s were good while others were over-hyped, like “mere nain sawan bhadon”, towards which I have a total aversion; it sounds like a caricature. Contrast that with the classically untrained op, who even made rafi sing a classical song for a bangali chhokra:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mk0130bbX-s&feature=related
Since asha is the flavour of the day (she must be very pleased that so many rafians are talking about her), here’s a beautiful op composition from the same film:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GKFalJWnqh4&feature=related
Both these songs are celebrating their golden anniversary this year.
In my opinion, the two sisters sang the best classical compositions by pancham. Here’s an old bengali song by asha di; tell me what you think of the song and the orchestration:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=iLLW7gYEm1o
Mr. XXX, Mr. Anil Cherain, Mr. Sanjay Arora,
What is your take on Pancham’s classical-based/flavoured output with Rafi ?. Pancham missed chances to work with Rafi on various classical-based albums such as Mehbooba, Aandhi, Amar Prem, Kinara, Parichay and so forth. However he did use him in other classical-based/flavoured songs. My question is, how would you rate the following classical-based/flavoured songs (which I will list below) ?. Do they belong to the category of Pancham’s best songs in this genre ?. I was just listening to Lata’s “Mere naina sawan bhadon”, what a masterpiece this is from Pancham. Pancham’s classical songs sound unique because he would use the guitar as an accompaniment to the main (tabla) rhythm, which was excellent. For example, listen to “Is mod se jaate hain” or “Do nainon mein aansoo bhare hain”, and “mere naina sawan bhadon” (as I mentioned above), and you will know what I mean.
Here is the list of songs, please comment on each song:
Nagma Hamara – Bundalbaaz (Lata/Rafi)
Hum Jab Ek Saath Hai – Bulandi (Asha/Rafi)
Pyar Hai Ik Nishan Qadmon Ka – Mukti (Rafi)
Jab Ek Kaza Se Guzro To – Devta (Rafi)
Tumhein Dekha Hai Maine – Chandan Ka Palna (Rafi)
Dukh Sukh Ki Har Ik Mala – Kudrat (Rafi)
Hai Agar Dushman – HKKN – (Asha/Rafi)
Pal Do Pal Ka Saath Hamara – TBT (Asha/Rafi)
Dear ANil
See the link for the songs
http://www.4shared.com/dir/7249098/c3e36f37/sharing.html
Zindagi zinda dili ka is available at Youtube.
Mr. Anil Cherian,
You have brought up a good point. It is true that many masterpiece songs or great songs are not popular simply because the compositions may not be very hummable or the tune is complex, compared to other songs. I think had Rafi-saab sang those three songs, they definitely would have been amazing classics, however as far as them being popular, I am sure they definitely would have been (i.e well known), due to the Rafi magic. As far as being popular with the public from a hummable point of view, it depends. Rafi-saab brought melody to every complex tune, that was his genius, but as is the case with many songs sung by many singers, those melodious tunes may not be easy to hum/sing.
For example, take Lata’s “Jane kya baat hai” from Sunny composed by Pancham. It is an awesome song, but not as popular as other Lata/RD songs, because even though Lata has brought melody to the composition, the tune is complex and not easy to hum/sing.
Re. 695: Rafi Saheb’s version of “Dukh Sukh Ki Har Ek Mala…” from “Kudrat” is outstanding. Only Rafi Saheb could do justice to this song. Anybody need this song in Rafi Saheb’s magical voice, can mail me.
melodiousrafi@gmail.com
Some songs that others and I have listed as solos are technically duets. For example, “Tum jo mil gaye ho”, “Likhar tera naam zamin par” both have Lata in them, and “Kya hua tera vaada” has Sushma Shrestha in it. However these songs can also be classified as Rafi solos since he has sung most of each of these songs.
Mr.Myk:
It feels nice to see that many of my favs find their place in yours too. Actually ‘tum jo mil gaye ho…’ would also have been in my listing, but I thought it wouldn’t qualify to be termed a solo.
Thanks a lot for the analysis on the three songs. I also think all these would have been aesthetically more brilliant in Rafisahab’s vocals. However would they have been as popular? I mean wouldn’t Rafisahab’s near-perfect rendition make them un-singable/un-hummable for common folks?
Mr.Rafian:
I heard many of the songs, could you provide links for ‘hazeen dilruba’, ‘zindagi ab to’, ‘mein vohi vohi baat’, ‘aisa na hoke’, ‘doston mei koi’ and ‘zindagi zinda dili’?
All the songs (I’ve so far listened to) are quite good. Some are real crackers (like ‘tum jo mil gaye ho’, ‘ek na ek’, ‘aaj mausam’, ‘teri galiyon;, etc.). However I did observe certain negative features (relative to ’50s and ’60s). The first factor is the song quality. Although these songs are quite good, none of them (except tum jo mil gaye ho..) is exactly a ‘jaanewalo zara..’ or ‘tere mere sapnon…’ or ‘ o mere shah-e-quba..’ or ‘rang aur noor ke…’. For another thing, many of these songs were from the small/medium banner films picturised on less-than-top actors. As a result they didn’t turn out to be as popular as they deserved to be and it also practically cut-off Rafi sahab’s extra-ordinary voice adaptability/ modulation skill . Thirdly, these songs never really explored Rafi sahab’s prowess in the lower notes (the way ‘mere mehboob..’, ‘meri awaz suno..’ or ‘rim jim ke geet..’ did). He was made to sound a bit monotonous in many of them. Lastly something I wouldn’t really want to admit , it’s the fact that Rafi sahab’s voice quality did appear to have come down a notch (compared to his mid-late ’60s voice) in some of these songs. I was listening to some of his late ’60s songs in between these songs (nazar na lag jaaye…, tum bin jaaun kahan…). It appeared as if something was a bit lacking , though I can’t really explain what it is. What I can say is that that magical voice was straining an extra yard (and therefore sacrificing a bit of its core-sweetness and even the heaviness) in some of the songs, perhaps Rafisahab was going thru a phase of indecisiveness (as propogated by Raju Bharatan in one of his articles).