Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?
This article is written by Mr.H.V.Guru Murthy.
A regular browser to web site mohdrafi.com, having gone through the letters of Rafi lovers would assume that R D Burman did not utilize Rafi properly, instead he preferred Kishore Kumar. Because of this reason, Rafi Fans are still upset with RDB even though he passed away a decade back.
Yes, it is true that RDB preferred KK over Rafi during early seventies. For that matter, which Music Director or Actor or Producer or Director will not have his preference. It was well known that Raj Kapoor always preferred Mukesh, Manoj Kumar preferred Mukesh or Mahendra Kapoor, B.R.Chopra films had Mahendra, MD Ravi also had plenty of songs with Mahendra so also O.P after he broke with Rafi. Similarly OP always had either Asha or Geetha Dutt and never Lata. Salil also used all other Singers. Director Subba Rao insisted on Mukesh for SAATHI even though the hero was Rajendra Kumar and MD Naushad, two Rafi Fans. Even Kalyanji Anandji had many films with Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and KK even though Rafi was instrumental in their raise through JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE, AAMNE SAAMNE, etc. LP, by all means Rafi Bhakts, used KK regularly in the early seventies even for Rafi heroes like Jeetendra, Dharmendra, etc. SJ also switched over to KK in movies like MAIN SUNDAR HOON, DIL DAULAT DUNIYA, KAL AAJ AUR KAL, etc. Of course, the music standard came down a notch or two in that period. But, well, it is their prerogative to have whomsoever they wanted though I am sure in heart of heart, why even openly, they would have admitted the superiority of Rafi over all other Singers. Similarly, RDB also used KK for almost all his movies in the early seventies as perhaps he had some special chemistry with him.
However, let us not forget that RDB used Rafi extensively during late sixties as his main playback singer right from the first movie. He gave hit music with Rafi in TEESRI MANZIL, NAQLI NAWAAB, CARAVAN, PYAAR KA MAUSAM, THE TRAIN, ABHILASHA, ADHIKAR, RATON KA RAAJA, etc. Later during late seventies he returned to Rafi and gave hits like SHAAN, HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, ABDULLAH, ZAMANE KO DIKHANA HAI, etc. In between, he had Rafi in CHANDI SONA qawali with Mannadey (Ek Shok Hasina Se), YADON KI BAARAT (Title song and who can forget the duet with Asha Chura Liya Hai Tumne), DIL KA BAADSHAH (this Raj Kumar starrer had all songs by Rafi), THE GREAT GAMBLER (Raftasa Mera Naam), SHEHZADA (Solo Tere Attaroo and duet with Lata Kaahe Ko Bulaya), etc.
If a person cannot appreciate the greatness of Rafi, then it can be safely concluded that the person does not have a sense of music. Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc. RD would have definitely known the great qualities of Rafi, the Singer. Just because he did not use Rafi extensively as one would expect, let us not degrade this MD who gave us some good songs in CHANDAN KA PALNA, PADOSAN, HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA, MERE JEEVAN SAATHI, AJNABEE, AMAR PREM, SANAM TERI KASAM, BHOOT BANGLA, BAHARON KE SAPNE (Rafi solo Zamane Ne Maare), PARICHAY, KINAARA, APNA DESH, ZAHREELA INSAAN, RAMPUR KA LAKSHAMAN (Pyaar Ka Samay with Lata, KK and Rafi), 1942 – A LOVE STORY, KATI PATANG to certain extent, etc. though he gave some very mediocre music in films like DEEWAR, SHOLAY, KITAAB, ZAKHMEE, RAFOO CHAKKAR, NAMKEEN, DHARAM KARAM and BIWI O BIWI (so un-RK film like), etc. so many forgettable movies as for as music was concerned.
The irony of RDB was either he gave good music or petered out to a very mediocre music in so many films. I read some where that Shashi Kapoor called RD as National Anthem Music Director. In those days, theatres used to play National Anthem at the end of the movie and the Hall doors used to be shut till the completion of the Anthem. As soon as the Anthem used to commence, our in-disciplined people used to rush to the Hall Door and wait for the door opening. Similarly, whenever RDB songs commenced in most of the movies, people used to rush to toilet.
Still, it is not fair that we use harsh and sometimes, un-parliamentary language against any body if they differ with our views. We cannot forget the contribution of all these MDs, Heroes, Singers, Directors, etc. in making the Indian Film Music so rich.
Posts 847 & 848 by Mr Hans and Mr Haldar. Both are very well written. I salute you both for your in depth understanding and commitment.
I request all our contributors not to brand any community biased or vindictive. The priority in the style of singing varies from region to region. No one can deny that Bngali MD’s did contribute a great deal. Great MDS like SDB, SJ & MM could blend easily, but likes of Mr Anil Biswas could not hence resorted to criticizing Rafi saheb. After all where is the comparison ? It is something like Chetan Sharma criticizing Javed Miandad’s batting skills. OPN was another extreme who stuck to Punjabi style and whatever 5-6 years period that he was at his peak (1962-1968) he etched his name in millions of music lovers minds and hearts.
haldar ji, i am fully agree with you, burman sahab and rafi sahab always shared the healthy relationships, in fact after the death of senior burman rafi sahab went to ameen sayani’s recording studio and recorded there few mins of “shradhaanjali” to burman da besides the fact that he was highly radio and camera shy person.. ameen sayani told in one of his program that rafi sahab recorded that “shradhanjali” alone in a room as he was highly shy person … such was the realationship that senior burman and rafi sahab shared..
ref post 847:
mr. hans,
this year marks the golden anniversary of one of the most memorable songs of hfm: “hum bekhudi mein tumko pukare chale gaye”. Before I get to a discussion with you on sd, let me post the bengali version of the song in tribute to the maestro:
Ghum bhulechhi nijhum e nishithe jege thaki
Aar amari moto jage neere duti pakhi
Music director & artiste : SDB
Lyrics : Meera Dev Burman
Raga : Chhayanat
Taal : Kaharwa (8-matra)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FJ0WNiYZ21s
mr. hans, you wrote:
“but, the real big culprits are the burmans. it was they who while utilising rafi for their own selfish ends, were nursing a grudge against him in their heart and always plotting to hurt him. it was sdb who made a conscious effort to set kishore as the voice of dev anand. it should be remembered that that era belonged to the trio of dev, raj and dilip. rafi was out of raj fold and sdb could not get much of the films where dilip worked. so it was really a seriously damaging attempt to hurt rafi. the effort was continued in earnest by the son as well.”
in a previous post, you wrote:
“so rdb has inherited selfishness, treachery, ungratefulness, meanness all from his father and there is no need to bring in asha or lata, though they might also have contributed.”
So you blame rd’s presumed anti-rafi bias on the genes he inherited from his dad? And you have the gall to tell me that I’m trying to impose my knowledge on others! You use some of the harshest terms on an md who gave some of filmdom’s best songs to rafi. I guess in your reckoning, ka, usha khanna and others are much better than sd for rafi because they gave him more songs. You should also rank lp and ka higher than naushad then!
Please do some serious research on sd for the 1947-56 period. sd used a host of male singers in that period, including talat, hemant, kishore and manna. Should talat’s and kishore’s fans call him treacherous for switching to rafi almost exclusively during the 1957-64 period? In fact, kishore was singing for him since the early 50s; he must have felt bad when sd sidelined him during that period. SD had several hits with kishore for dev in the 50s before rafi took over.
I will agree with you on one point, though, that loyalty was not one of sd’s strengths. He had this knack of switching from one singer to another; his admirers call it his ability to switch with the times while his critics blame it on his tendency to blow with the wind. But keep this in mind: there was tremendous pressure from dev on sd to use kishore. Dev has himself stated that in several interviews. But despite that, in film after film, sd composed major hits for dev using rafi.
That sd admired rafi’s supreme singing prowess has been so well documented that there is no need for me to repeat that. Each of them took the other to heights that other mortals will fear to tread. If you have to rank rafi’s top 10 songs, it will be hard to even restrict the number of sd’s tunes to five, such was the quality of music they produced together. But, by your analysis, sd scored only 96 songs and if some band baja-walla scores 250 songs, he has to be better than sd!
Did you know how much the man you call treacherous, mean, seflish, etc. used to earn during his last few years? A mere Rs. 75,000 per film. Did you ever hear him complain about the fact that he didn’t get the Filmfare award for Guide? During the 1965-75 period, he was in extremely poor health and rd did a lot of his recordings. Read yogesh’s latest interview and you’ll find who recorded “badi sooni sooni re”. With roshan and jai gone, and with naushad and op losing their touch, he did what was best for him to stay in competition. Yes, he could have used rafi more during that period, but he didn’t have the same kind of loyalty that naushad and op had.
mr.hans, since you are so good at stats and analysis, try this experiment and report the results. How did ka use rafi vis-a-vis kishore during the 1972-76 period after rafi produced those memorable songs for them in geet?
I’m sure that you also follow the posts about actors and producers who wanted kishore or some other singer to sing for them? If you don’t, here are some of the names that come up all the time: dev anand (the No. 1 ingrate), b. r. chopra, yash chopra and rajesh khanna. Why don’t you start a tirade against them instead of spewing your venom against a departed soul? After all, these people are all alive! And their hometowns are closer to yours than mine.
In closing, let me quote on what mr. raju korti, a film journalist who knows much more about md’s and singers than you or I do, had commented in an earlier post:
“a lot has been written about rdb-rafi relationships in the threads on this site. but i am afraid most are speculative, hearsay and concocted… to explain the chord between the two would need reams of paper, but i will cut the long story short.
at the outset, i must make it clear that it is a complete myth that rdb had no regards for rafi. yes, both dada and rdb were musically inclined towards kishore. dada for one never hid the fact that he regarded kishore as his ‘manasputra’. but he always acknowledged rafi as a genius without peer. he once told me that he composed great tunes for kishore and he sang them well too, but rafi was up, up there where no one could touch him. he would even chide kishore saying he could never become a rafi. “howsoever i liked kishore, rafi always took my breath away with his phenomenal range and exceptional brilliance,†he conceded. saying thus, he even proceeded to hum the rafi classic from benazir “dil mein ek jaane tamanna ne jagah paayi haiâ€. and when he hummed a few lines, it became crystal clear how rafi gave the words a majestic expression. for me, it was a heady experience and dada was unabashed when he gushed how his tooti-footi hindi could be grasped with such amazing ease by the maestro.”
Ref. post 758 of Mr. Haldar
Mr. Haldar had in his post no 854 to Guru Murthy had commented about me that i am a tweaker of facts, though nothing was said to prove the assertion. neither has he now given any facts to prove me wrong. on the other hand he has gone on to tweak my post to his advantage.
I have never said that their was no mutual interaction or respect between punjabis and bengalis. i had only stated that there were two distinct groups. i know that there has been close associations between them. i would have provided more examples if that would have served any purpose and for the same reason i am not contesting the list of associations given by Mr. Haldar, which contains flaws. this is falsehood no. 1 which has been wrongly imparted to me on the basis of my post.
the second falsehood is the existence of any fight between rafi and bengali mds which has been imagined by Mr. Haldar to have been hinted in my post. i never said that there was any fight between them. in fact, if there had been a fight then there would have been no case for neglect or avoidance. this case has arisen because rafi didnt hurt the bengali mds and still they ignored him and sdb and rdb did that particularly in a bad way after using him for their own ends. i would not include hemant because he did not do it deliberately and he also never said anything against him. he was an excellant singer and everybody overestimates his own talent as compared to others. i named him because he was also part of the general trend.
here i would like to tell that before reading this thread i had not seen this trend in the same light as i see now. i thought as many people think that sdb was a rafi man. but when i saw the stats posted by Mr. Venkatadri in post no 127, i was surprised that sdb had recorded only 96 songs with rafi. it was at this point that i decided to do some research work, which i undertook just to know the factual position and what i saw shocked me. I saw three clear phases which i have pointed out.
so, hemant i have altogether pronounced not guilty, though he is a part of the general trend. anil biswas used rafi for just a few songs, so he can not be caught on moral grounds, though it was unwise to say what he said about rafi. salil is a culprit for me because he used rafi for his own ends and then tried to defame him for the sake of lata. but, the real big culprits are the burmans. it was they who while utilising rafi for their own selfish ends, were nursing a grudge against him in their heart and always plotting to hurt him. it was sdb who made a conscious effort to set kishore as the voice of dev anand. it should be remembered that that era belonged to the trio of dev, raj and dilip. rafi was out of raj fold and sdb could not get much of the films where dilip worked. so it was really a seriously damaging attempt to hurt rafi. the effort was continued in earnest by the son as well.
another accusation which you have tried to paste on me is that i am trying to create a division between the two communities. i deny that. i am of the opinion that the long indian tradition of sweeping the ills under the carpet, should be changed. this has resulted in rotting of our society. as i have said i frankly discuss these matters with my bengali friends and they respect my frankness. i am from haryana and if anybody refers to any shortcomings of haryanvis i would take it objectively and try to make an honest analysis and not react the way you did while trying to defend the indefensible. this only confirms your parochial thinking. i still love the quality music of all bengali mds mentioned by me and i have the ability to criticise as well as appreciate.
so far as raju bharatan’s credibility is concerned you seem to be confused yourself. you say on the one hand that his credibility has hit an all time low, yet you believe his words when you tell us that there was a fight between khaiyyam and rafi in earthy punjabi words, relying on him. so far as i am concerned, i have followed raju’s writings ever since my college days because we shared two common interests cricket and hfm. and as he was criticising my idols gavaskar and rafi i followed his writings closely. i have also read his biography of lata mangeshkar. i have found that he loves to talk about himself and he uses the facts for his purposes but he is not a basic lier. and can also appreciate the true qualities. he is a fan of lata, but he has roundly criticied her. at one place in that book he says that lata had seven solos in ‘dulari’ but the single solo by rafi ‘suhani raat dhal chuki’ eclipsed all her solos. so he has the guts to appreciate and also tell the truth. so far as the recent revelation of his about rdb’s interview, i think he has taken that interview and rdb had said what he had told us. i also think that his objective was perhaps not to belittle rafi, but to tell the truth about rdb. but i see that people instead of criticising rdb who used those words, have fallen upon one who is bringing them forth.
you are also doing the same thing to me. instead of acknowledging the deeds of the burmans you are accusing me, who is only bringing them forth.
so far as ‘poochho na kaise’ controversy is concerned, somebody has referred to that in this thread. it was said that rafi continually broke down while recording this song, that is how manna dey got the song and he referred to some interview of manna dey in that context. i am not the perpetrator of this. so accuse him it you want.
you have also said “Please note that there are serious rafians who visit this site; if you want to spread your lies among gullible orkut babes, please go elsewhere”
i will not use any harsh words for calling me a lier or a tweaker of facts, because i believe that a person resorts to such gimmicks when he is frustrated in finding worthwhile arguments. but, i would say that this statement is in itself indicative of the false sense of superiority in yourself, though you have involved the members of two sites in your own thinking.
i had seen your earlier posts in which you had tried to project rdb as some kind of demi-god of hfm. but i had avoided commenting on that, but your branding me as a lier and yourself as a serious rafian has given me the right to analyse your statements. which i would do in another post.
hello mr.myk,
in my opinion-lp topped the last few years of golden era among their contemporaries, i am agree with you here, not only with rafi sahab, their association with lata from 1963-69 was fruitful as well, how about the songs like “neend kabhi rehti thi” these type of songs simply blows away their contemporaries, however i also love k-a’s work from 60s(specially wit rafi ji and mukesh ji) .. i believe rd was weakest in 60s when compared to his contemporaries, songs like “tumne mujhe dekha ” were nice but what would left if we take out rafi’s divine voice from it? even in the 70s l-p came out with many gems(primarily with rafi sahab) but their overall class was missing, arrangements were repetitive(mainly in late 70s) what would you say here?, but it doesn’t matter much as they ruled over their contemporaries in golden era.. 70s was musically great era but not golden era..
mr.myk, no doubt jaikishan was stunning with his melodies, if i am not wrong he composed most of the gems of rafi sahab, by the way any clue regarding who among the duo composed “aawaz deke humein tum bulao”?? its a stunning melody!
I live in Central Africa, today evening I watched Sa Re Ga Ma Pa 2009 on Zee TV, Asha Bhosle was invited and she said while recording Aaja Aaja Main Hoon Pyar Tera (Teesri Manzil), she was getting trouble singing Aa Aa Aajaaaa…, she was able to record this song practising after 3 days, the song was okayed after 3 days and R.D. Burman presented her a note of Rs. 100/- as a gift. Now where is this Raju Bharatan saying Rafi Saheb was not able to sing this song!?
melodiousrafi@ymail.com
Mr. XXX,
I haven’t come across any recent posts from you, where have you been ?.
I wanted to comment again on a topic which we discussed recently, about which association, Rafi with LP, KA or RD was the best in the 60’s and 70’s.
I would say L-P tops both the 60’s and 70’s with Rafi, they gave him outstanding songs on a consistent basis just like another great duo S-J. I just listened to “Janewaalo ka gham” from Kali Ghata (1980) composed by L-P, sung by Rafi and this song is a masterpiece, a very unusual tune but very haunting. It is songs like these and others which make the Rafi-LP association stand out among the crowd.
How about comparing Laxmi with his idol Jaikishan ?. Both were melody-oriented composers, both could create sweet, haunting, long lasting melodies, both were complete composers in their own right, both were very versatile, and most importantly, both had a fondness for the Badshah Rafi-saab. When L-P broke on to the scene, it seemed like Laxmi was trying to impress his idol with his creations and he did a fantastic job at that.
There was a time in fiftees, sixties and seventies when we had great Singers like Hemant, Talat, Mukesh, Mahendra, Mannadey and above all Rafi who competed fircely but in a healthy manner and in turn we got memorable songs. But after Rafiji passed away, I wonder why Music Directors did not make use of Mahendra and Mannadey, who were active Singers. Only KK of the old brigade was singing. But the Mds were so confused that without good lyrics, good picturisation and above all Singers, their music also suffered. Even KK’s good songs can be numbered in eightees. No doubt the music standard reached abysmal levels after eightees. In ninetees, Lataji who had considerably reduced her assignments by then, whenever she sang a song in any of the films, there was a whiff of fresh air and one always felt as if they have been transported back to those good old days. The picturisation also played a great part. Earlier we had Directors like Raj Kapoor, Vijay Anand, Guru Dutt, Ramanand Sagar, etc. who concentrated on facial expressions during song picturisation. Full antara some times used to be picturised in one shot giving full scope for the actors involved and there used to be many close up shots. But now, the songs are superfast picturisation, the camera just rolls on, no close ups but only long shots, no facial expressions, no good lyrics. No wonder todays songs remain popular for an year or so unlike the old generation songs which people including youngsters hum even today. Songs like “Zindagi Khab Hai” (Jaagte Raho), title song of Mere Mehaboob, etc. were picturised in one location throughout the song, but now a days if one line of an antara is in Switzerland, the other line is in Canada and the camera moves so fast that if one sees couple of such songs, he is sure to get eye pain.
DHANIRAM JI,HARVINDER, ANMOL, HALDAR AND RAFI LOVERS:
SINCE WE ARE ISSUING THE 2ND ISSUE OF SARGAM ON JULY 31, WE ARE PUTTING IN A QUIZ CONSISTING OF 20 QUESTIONS.
10 WILL BE ON RAFI SAAHEB AND 10 WILL BE ON MUSIC, hfm (golden era).
Can fellow rafi lovers send me 20 questions for the Sargam issue by july 15th? at my e.mail adress……
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai… 9833 250 701, binus2000@hotmail.com
dhani ram/harvinder and the rafi lovers of the world………….
we may disagree about rd burman only for one reason: he promoted kishore kumar big time at the cost of mohd rafi. heroes like sanjeev, jeetendra, dharmendra who regularly lip-synched rafi vocals was replaced by kk under r.d.burman.
rafi who sang all the songs of khilona so well in the seventies was made to feel that his singing days are over by a “section” of the music composers led by rdb and songs meant for him eluded him.
if sdb was alive and active, he would have corrected rdb and reversed the trend to some extent. but, do not forget that the producers and the distributors have a big say in a song making. some of the actors too ditched rafi saaheb but dharmendra was always on rafi side. some of the singers of the day and music companies who stood by rafi all along with the producers too deserted rafi.
rdb by not using rafi vocal during his “peak period” isolated music lovers first and failed to give “variety” in his music . this led to his films flopping “enmasse” and people going lavishly to the resting rooms whenever his songs came to the screens. it was now the turn of r.d. to lose his moorings and self confidence.
rdb realized his follies but a little too late.
binu nair, mumbai.
Harvinderji,thanks for endorsing my view.In the midst of cacophany,quite often the value of true music is drowned.we celebrate someone like rdb but may not even know some of the best.How many have heard the name of Sudhir Phadke.In terms of quantity his contribution to Hindi film music is negligible but his just one song is worth all the compositions of rdb.And most of us may not even know which song it is!
i FULLY AGREE WITH POST 836 OF mR dHANI rAM. TALKING SO MUCH OF AN MD WHO WAS JUST ABOVE AVERAGE -AT BEST, IS HURLING INSULT ON GREATS.
SOMETIME AGO MR HALDAR HAD FEARED THAT NUMBER OF POSTS WOULD REACH 500, NOW I AM SURE IT WILL TOUCH FOUR FIGURES, BY THE WAY THINGS ARE GOING.
Post 835…..Gurumurthy.. ji…
yes. u are on the dot. three cheers to manmohan desai and nazir hussein (producer) who backed rafi saaheb to the brink during the mad music days of the seventies.
binu nair, mumbai
Well Dhaniramji,
RDB was a talented Music Director, no doubt about, it but was highly inconsistent and perhaps lost out due to his overdependence on KK for songs not suitable for KK and ignoring Rafi during a critical phase of his career by making other Singers to sing songs but which were most suitable for Rafi.
why give so much importance to just one md and keep him in spotlight when scores of others were better than him.Music is an art and is rooted in aesthetics.It has nothing to do with stats.Stats kill the spirit of music.this thread is not discussing music at all.it is a clear deflection from music.rd doesn’t deserve the attention being given to him here.95% of his compositions were just trash.
Post 832. Apart from MMD, Nasir Hussain was another Producer who stood by Rafi throughout including in the mid seventies. Remember Yadon Ki Baraat, Hum Kisise Kum Nahin and Zamane Ko Dikhana Hai. Like-wise, the only two Music Directors who were all for Rafi were Madan Mohan and Usha Khanna, even in the seventies. Unfortunately, Naushad did not have much movies in the seventies and other regular Rafi Bhakts like Chitragupta, N.Dutta, Ravi (except BR Films where he had to use Mahendra), Dattaram, SJ, Sonik Omi were out of the picture. Apart from SDB, RDB, KA (except few Rafi-Lata duets and of course, Bairaag for Dilip Kumar), even LP went KK way.
Haldar sir:
Thanks a lot for the links. Enjoyed listening to them… Can I ask for some more?
Guru Murthy – never heard of him, never heard of a musician by that name Murthy or a sound architect…so who is he? Another fan who hears mono music in cheap boom box stereos or someone who has never even heard what a Haas effect or Flackerhusen is in sound technology.
Churchill once said “market forces announces the real winner, others can bask in dark glory by few”…
We all know whose songs are held as immortal and which singer still has the highest charbusters per Indian records.
It is OK having personal preference, nothing wrong – but talking like a stupid does not help
post 828…. when we talk of manmohan desai what else one can do? only salute the genious film maker.
there are real stories of how mm.d in the recording rooms signalling rafi to slaughter his competitors in the recording rooms and rafi simply laughing, holding his both ears and saying – no….. no….from the distance.
mm desai is the biggest producer who stood by rafi ji at all times. the biggest showman after raj kapoor saaheb.
binu nair…
post 828 : xxx….
in the seventies , only two composers are there in my list who brought back rafi saaheb back into the limelight: they are usha khanna and madan mohan.
usha with hawas and mm with laila majnu.
as for quality mm never compromised with anyone and he is truly the unsung hero of hfm.
and when we talk of madan mohan we remember some songs of film parwana in which he took the voices of the king and kk. it was the second movie of navin nischal after the hit saawan bhaadon and amitabh was the villain of the movie – and still struggling.
as for lp, they selected songs on singers merit and in personal discussions with pyarelal ji, this was made clear. and in the seventies they always took rafi saaheb often with small and big hits until akbar anthony happened.before that even manoj kumar stepped in and selected the maestro for the shirdi sai baba songs.
binu nair….
mr.myk,
you are right regarding “badi door se aaye hain” but there are two versions of this song, i downloaded this album from here::
http://www.mp3hungama.com/music/index.php?action=album&id=2374
mr.myk, could you provide me the links for those two duets or could you mail me those songs at xxx031@gmail.com , as i don’t know much about k-a’s lesser known albums.
by the way, there is a song by rd “chhe khus nazare”, another gem with rafi ji, what is your take on this song, use of violins are tremendous what do you say? orchestration is beautiful, its a song on crescendo so rafi was quite obvious choice, rafi sahab brings great melody even to this kind of song,so what’s your take?..
Mr. XXX,
I agree, RR’s composition is better than RD’s composition, because of the quality of singing and orchestration.
“Tere jaisa kaun hai” is a heavenly song and a beautiful masterpiece, one of Rafi-saab’s true romantic classics. The santoor, saxophone and violins combined with the melody and Rafi’s voice is excellent. This song would feature very high in my all-time list of Rafi saab’s best romantic songs. The lyrics by Anand Bakshi are fantastic as well.
“Tu jo nahin koi mera” is a nice soulful melody with Rafi taking the song to great heights. Indeed there is a nice fusion of the piano and tabla in this composition. This song is one of the countless Rafi gems from the late 70’s. When Rafi sings “tu jo nahin koi mera, mera koi nahin, koi nahin” there is so much soul and depth.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think “jo dilon ke naate hai” are lines from the song “Badi door se aayen hai”, which is a great composition, Mukesh only has a few lines here, it is Rafi’s song all the way. Rafi used to start his 70’s concerts with this song.
K-A also made great Rafi-Asha duets, what are your views on these two songs ?
Rehne Do – Rakhwala
Pyar Se Dilbar De – KKAK
mr.binu,
that is what make difference of quality from 60s to 70s, many substandard songs were made in 70s by sidelining rafi. however i think it was mm who never cared for trends, l-p also compromised with quality, what is your take on l-p switching over to kk even in manmohan desai films?? it was only mm who used all the singers(kk,rafi,manna,bhupinder) quite nicely and his quality was just amazing even in 70s, his songs with lata, rafi and manna in 70s are superior to all.
mr.myk,
yes there may be coincidence, but the rr song sounds much better than rd, level of composition is same, only there is a difference of ornamentation through ace singers and nice orchestration. what do you think?
regarding k-a:”tere jaisa kaun hai” is a fantastic melody, its from a late 60s where k-a were at their best, “tu jo nahi koi” is also a nice one, by the way what are your views on these songs??, i think there is a fine fusion in the second song, piano and tabla together, both of the songs are ka-rafi gems.
i think background song from samjhauta is that kk solo “samjhauta gamo se”. rafi sahab’s “koi nahi hai mera” is also a nice one, how about other two songs from the same movie? “jo dilo ke naate hain” by rafi ji and mukesh-rafi duet “badi door se “…
Mr. XXX,
“Kahun kya tumse” is a nice song and it reminds me of “Ek main hoon, Ek tu” by Kishore-Asha from Darling Darling composed by Pancham. Is this the song you were referring to ?. Both songs were released around the same time in 1976. I think you could call this a coincidence as I doubt both RD and RR would copy eachother.
K-A’s combo with Rafi is consistent and spread over a long period of time, from 1958 until 1980. Rafi was always a factor in K-A’s success. I agree that “O saathi re” by Kishore is over-rated, I personally prefer the Asha version, she sang it much better. Rafi stole the show from KK with “Zindagi to bewafa hai” which was the climax of the film.
What are your views on these KA/Rafi songs:
Tere Jaisa Kaun Hai (Tamanna) – this is one of my absolute favourite romantic songs, just look at the singing, melody and music, a masterpiece.
Tu Jo Nahin Koi Mera (Darinda) – a late 70’s piano-based gem by KA/Rafi.
Sab Ke Rehte Lagta Hai Jaise (Samjhauta) – I think this is a background song, very well sung.
Jinki Kismat Mein (Raja Saab) – the sad version of “Raju ka tha ek khwab”, awesome song, excellent use of the saxophone.
xxx and myk : k & a made two lovely songs : in maryada and choti bahu but in the seventies they latched on to kk and gave some unique hits.
but it was l & P who reversed the trends and never did forget the king and rafi was back to his numero uno position in 1978.
but, one point herein during the seventies, mukesh got some great hits in kabhie kabhie under khayyam saaheb. but, i truly believe that few songs rightly belonged to rafi saaheb . then it would have been like or near to guide.
any other composer of the day would have gone for rafi, i will bet this. what’s your opinion on this…..????
binu nair…. mumbai rafi foundation……
mr.cherian,
you are absolutely right when you said that rafi sahab always came up with something fresh throughout his career, he created his own style with every composer whom he worked with and rajesh roshan was no exception.
by the way, please download few rd-rafi unpopular gems(including “jab ek qaza” and “mohabbat mein aji kya”) from here, all recorded between 1976-80::
http://www.4shared.com/dir/7672212/e35b6788/sharing.html
Re. Post 812: Very well said Mr. Binu Nair ji.
mr.myk,
the “chhoti bahu” song by k-a is nice one but my fav is “mohabbat ke suhane din”, its an outstanding one, beautiful use of violins, santoor and sitar. and obviously great singing by rafi sahab. i also listened to the song kisi aasman pe to and its a great too.. now regarding your kk list under k-a, i think “o sathi re” is an overrated number, rest of the songs are good, i personally like “zindagi ka safar” & “pal pal dil ke pas”, you are right, they made the good use of kishore.
by the way there is a rafi-lata duet from “ginny and jhonny”, kahun kya tumse apni daastan, music by rajesh roshan, its a nice song, please share your views on this song, there is a nice Arabic touch in this song. by the way, do this song reminds you any of the rd number?? particularly that “ooooo”…
There is one more gem of lata rafi under rr,whicj=h had not been quoted .It
is from the film `yehi hai zindagi`,the song `hum mil gaye `an absolute gem
post 818: haldar saaheb :
yes . many ipta people went to jail before independence and after and we are very proud for it. salil was a revolutionary and also hot headed. I met salilda at his house during the 75-76 period which was opp. jaslok hospital but did not have the contents to talk to him.
the other leftists who went to prison were : balraj sahni, majrooh sultanpuri (post freedom) and few others. they were card holding communists and committed to the masses. we are all proud of their commitments.
Shailendra a confirmed leftist used to work at the parel railway workshop and refused to write songs for raj kapoor . but later relented when he need money post marriage.
about salil saaheb one of my favourite m.d. i will write to you privately halder ji along with few other points.
please do write frequently , we love to read your posts. best wishes.,
binu nair, mumbai.///////////
ref post 794:
mr. cherian, glad to know that you liked the kabuliwala song. From the Hindu Kush mountains, let’s travel hundreds of miles southeast to the streets of kolkata, where a group of migrant labourers have assembled at the end of a hard day’s toil. Here’s rafi saab singing “ajab tori duniya” in bhojpuri style:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=X17guHxKl5I
This song is from bimal roy’s “do bigha zameen”, which was based on salil da’s story. Shailendra, his comrade from ipta and lyricist of this song, would remain salil da’s lifelong associate. If you want to hear another song with its authentic ethnic flavour, you can try rafi-balbir’s bhangra song from “jaagte raho”. Whether it’s afghani, punjabi, bhojpuri, assamese, konkani or malayali, salil da would always remain true to the cultural roots of that place. That was his hallmark.
if you want to hear a couple of more rare gems of salil-rafi, here’s a rafi-manna duet from “us ne kaha tha” (yeh dosti on a ghoda gaadi):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5Q16Pf-Fhro
And here’s a rare beauty from “maya”, where rafi saab modulates his voice to make it softer and sweeter than the ice cream dev anand is selling:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rKkfvrinNL0
ref post 787:
binuji, I haven’t heard the story before. But salil was part of the ipta brigade, which included, among others, stalwarts like balraj sahni, sambhu mitra, k. a. abbas, sahir, utpal dutt, majrooh, shailendra, kaifi azmi and habib tanveer. These were left-leaning intellectuals and some of them may have spent time in jail.
I fully agree with Narayananji. KA could have given much more memorable songs if only they had chosen Rafi more. The films still remembered of KA are Jab Jab Phool Khile, Aamne Saamne, Hasina Maan Jayegi, Upkar, Purab Pachim, Safar, Raja Babu, Vishwas, Muqadar Ka Sikander, Jee Chahta Hai, Kab Kyoon Aur Kahan, Himalay Ki God Me and most of these movies had Rafi as the main Singer. KA preferred Mukesh in the sixties and KK in the seventies and Mahendra for Manoj Kumar movies. But it should be admitted that they came out with Rafi – Lata gems very frequently even in the seventies like Haath Ki Safai (Wada Karle), Zanjeer (Deewane Hain), Adalat (Tumse Door Rahke), Katputli (Ek Baat Poochun), Sacha Jhoota (Yun Hi Tum), etc. and Rafi solos like Yeh Raat Hai Pyaasi Pyaasi from Choti Bahu. Songs from Don, Lawaris, etc. had hit songs but these cannot be classified as memorable or classics.
Actually the KA-KK association is well-known, they had a personal relationship aside from their professional relationship. What I meant though was that on this site, we have probably mostly discussed K-A’s association with Rafi and Mukesh and not much about their association with Kishore.
Mr. XXX,
The Rafi and Mukesh association with K-A is well known, but how about Kishore. Kishore also had great songs with this duo. We talked about how Kishore was lucky to have RD from 1970-75, and then RR from 1975-1980. However I also feel K-A added nicely to his repertoire of good songs throughout the decade, and he was lucky to have them there as well.
RDB may have had more hits for Kishore, but the impact of each Kishore hit for K-A made up for that. RR may have brought out Kishore’s voice in a unique way, but K-A also managed to bring something unique out of Kishore as well.
Even though RDB is KK’s best known composer, I don’t think he brought out Kishore’s voice the best. Composers like SD, RR, K-A managed to bring out KK’s voice better.
Here are some of the best of KA-KK:
Jeevan Se Bhari – Safar
Zindagi Ka Safar – Safar
Jo Tum Hasoge – Kathputli
Sama Ha Suhana Suhana – Ghar Ghar Ki Kahani
Pal Pal Dil Ke Paas – Blackmail
O Saathi Re – MKS
Aankhon Aankhon Mein – Mahal
Mera Jeevan Kora Kagaz – Kora Kagaz
Main Pyaasa Tum Sawan – Farar
I consider Kishore to be third in line when it comes to best songs from a male singer under K-A, after Rafi and Mukesh.
What do you say ?
the income tax people also told your hero : Jeevan se na haar jeene waalo and sent him to ………………. after putting a hefty fine on him. (post 802)….
binu nair,
Mr. XXX,
I am sorry, I don’t know a whole lot about Punyavaan, he was indeed Dattaram’s guru. There was another great dholak player in the S-J team by the name of Abdul Karim.
About RD-Rafi, LP-Rafi, and KA-Rafi in the 60’s, I like all the combo’s, they all had a certain freshness and charm to them. LP-Rafi and KA-Rafi came out winners in the 60’s, compared to the RD-Rafi combo, because of more films, but even then the RD-Rafi combo was excellent. In the 70’s, I feel all of them were great too, they all gave Rafi-saab fabulous songs. LP always had Rafi first and gave him all their winners. Even if Kishore was RD’s favourite, he still gave his best to Rafi in the 70’s. Coming to KA, they did move towards Kishore but their best in this decade also went to Rafi. I love the Rafi output more than any other singer output when it comes to these composers. I also feel their very best was reserved for Rafi.
There is a Rafi song from the film Kashish (1980) composed by K-A, “Kisi aasmaan pe to sahil milega”, written by Gulzar. This one gem in my view surprasses all Gulzar-RD-Kishore songs, it is a real beauty. Have you heard it ?. I have this song on CD, if you or anyone would like it, please tell me and I will email it to you.
We recently talked about who out of RD, L-P and K-A created the best Rafi songs in the 70’s. How about two K-A compositions by Rafi, among his best songs of the 70’s decade. One is “Mohabbat ke suhane din” from Maryada, this is a knockout sentimental gem. The other is “Yeh raat hai pyaasi pyaasi” from Chhoti Bahu, romance at its best.
post 802… have u lost your way/// u can write your rubbish in the kishore kumar site urgently – for its visited very rarely and those who visit – most are parrots; singing one liners which is devoid of any melody.
That area is deserted hence please visit it soon for it requires any input. do not bother of the quality, just publish…..
binu nair, mumbai
Mr.Myk:
Listened to the RR-Rafi combos recommended by you except ‘Dil Ki Kali Yuhin Sada…’, ‘Tumse Nahin Pehchan…’ and ‘Naraazgi Yeh Aap Ki…’. It seems they aren’t available in the youtube.
The 3 duets are outstanding – ‘Bahon mein there…’ (Rafisahab sounds good and strong in this one), ‘teri palkon mein…’ (nice song made even sweeter by some exceptional singing, esp. by Rafisahab) and ‘kya mausam….’ (good song and fine singing by all the three). And what can I say about ‘Mujhe choo rahi hain…’, what a marvelous song and what great singing!
‘aag hain…’ is on okay song so is ‘yaar tere…’. ‘Logon ka dil…’ is a nice peppy number reminiscent of some of the Rafi-OPN hits.
In all the songs Rafisahab sounds very good (though he was 53-54 at that time) and he is back with his trademark modulations and innovations and I believe the credit must go to RR for extracting the best out of the ‘baadshah’.
Mr.XXX:
The Jay-Vijay song is a beauty, wonderfully sung by Lataji and especially Rafisahab. He never ceases to amaze us, right? Just when we feel that we’ve heard it all, he comes up with something new, something fresh…
Could you list out some more Rafi songs from the late ’70s (apart from the biggies like AAA, HKKN, Sargam, Asha, Naseeb, Dharamveer and Abdullah). I can’t find ‘mohabbat mein aji kya’ and ‘jab ek kaza se gujaro’ in youtube. Could you provide/inform links?
Sorry to interrupt in the enlightening thread of MDs with Rafi sahab. But somewhere I feel KA also did not use Rafi sahab as much as SJ and LP. They were more prone towards Mahendra Kapoor who is the disciple of our Badshah and Mukesh.
No doubt they gave exceptional songs to Rafi sahab in solos n duets like JJPK, Geeth,Lalkaar,HMJ,Adalat,Bluff Master,HKS,Heera, etc but somhow they preferred MK and Anwar for KK-Male singer duet unlike LP. Vicotria203, hera pheri n Qurbani
Do not know the reason
mr.myk,
how would you compare rafi-ka, rafi-rd and rafi-lp combo in 60s, which combo do you like most? i rate lp-rafi combo higher than their contemporaries, but not in 70s, the magic of “chaunga main tujhe” “pathhar ke sanam” or “neend kabhi rehti thi aakhon mein(by lata)” is completely missing in 70s. so pls also wirte that where do you find these 3 partnerships in 70s? …..
now regarding s-j—-could you please add something about punyavaan(rhythm player of barsaat(1949) by s-j) before dattaram became their main assistant and rhythm player, punyavaan used to play the rhythms for s-j? how long did he worked with s-j? dattaram consider punyavan his dholak guru::
here is the song from awara where dattaram first time played dholak for s-j as punyavan failed to reach at time::
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CuPYXqfFMzg
Mr. XXX,
Thanks for your reply. You are completely right when you say KA were very melodious. Their tunes were “very sweet”, it was amazing how they came out with such excellent melodies, and yet they didn’t get the same recognition as S-J or L-P.
I think K-A had their own unique style when it came to the western genre, different from RD and RR. This style can be seen in many of their 60’s songs, the rhythm, the orchestration, and the overall feel, and this carried forward into the 70’s and 80’s. From the days of “Haseena Maan Jaayegi” and “Aamne Samne” to “Dharmatma”, “Qurbani” and “Bombay 405 Miles” and many other soundtracks, K-A brought out great music in this genre. Their rhythm man Babla (who was their younger brother) was as good in rhythm for KA as Maruti Keer was for Pancham and Dattaram for SJ. He could play around with rhythm in many ways which is why you will find that KA’s rhythm had its own unique touch. Songs such as the beautiful Lata-Rafi duets “Tumse Door Rehke” (Adalat) and “Wada karle saajna” (HKS), and Lata’s “Dil to hai dil” (MKS) are so different in treatment from Pancham or RR western-type songs, as well as from western-type songs by other composers. They could use western instruments as good as indian instruments, with great ease and finesse. Their violins also had a unique touch, many a times one can tell a K-A song just from the violins.
Another aspect is that K-A made the “funk” type of music popular, which was a mix of soul, pop, r&b etc. and this type of music in HFM was brought to the forefront by this duo.
Posts 802, 803:
Your views are not solicited here. And please keep away from judging views/reviews of anyone especially well-respected and well-informed people like Murthy sir. This simply is none of your affairs.
Rafi would have taken “Mere naina sawan bhadon” to heights that Kishore would not be able to reach. The Lata alaap is a masterstroke, it is the humming by Kishore that is childish. Kishore could not sing a real classical song so RD had to modify it. Kishore’s version can be considered a modified version of a classical song, its by no means a true classical song in any way. It is the Lata version that is brilliant and a masterpiece. Kishore and alaaps in the same sentence is a joke, I wonder where people get such nonsense ideas from. Its like saying Kumar Sanu is the best classical singer.
The song “Kahan tak se man ko” from BBM has been mentioned several times here. It is a good song, but very easy to sing, any singer would have sung this song with great ease. The only good part about this song is that Kishore has sung it in a soft manner, and not loud and irritating like many of his other songs.
Nothing will prove that Kishore could match up to Rafi in any way, because he simply could not. It’s a joke and a waste of time to compare Kishore or any singer to Rafi, as Rafi is miles ahead of the rest.
mr.myk,
k-a were talented mds, i love their most of the songs from 60s, their association with mukesh was fruitful and ofcourse with rafi ji as well, although they were never the trendsetters or never revolutionized hfm with their music, but still their 60s was very melodious, few songs with kk from 70s “safar”, “blackmail” “kora kagaz” were nice also … rafi sahab also sung great numbers from “geet” “jjpk” “hasina maan jayegi” “chhoti bahu” etc..
regarding their use of western music, they were not much innovative as rdb,rr. they were good in this field but i firmly believe their strength was melodious music like “chand si mehbooba”, “akele hain chale aao” “chale the sath milke” “chandan sa badan” etc … however let me admit that “pls correct me if i am wrong as i don’t know much about their music”
Mr. Murthy….You are good reviewer but not a great reviewer….A lot of information regarding movies whose MD was RD….the GREAT…and definitely one of the Greatest…..gave music for….I understand you like his music but would like to travel the oft treaded path of listening to conventional music…anything new and you simply categorize it as “Not up to the mark” and so on and so forth (anyways who cares for what you think…at least I dont)…c’mon dont be judgemental…..know your limits and try not to measure the capability and class of these music directors…..try to hear more music given by loRD and then discuss about it….happy listening chao
i prefer mere naina by kishore. it has more depth. as far as mising allaps are considered lata’a begining alaap ouns childish and harsh. kishore has rightly replaced it with simple humming.kishore was md also. It helped him. rai would not have been able to get the depth acquired by ishoe in this ong. also listen kishore’s divine and very oft renditon f “kab tak andhere mnko chalenge”. it is wrong to juge light singer on range or alaps. ihs hume tumse pyar sounds very effective pecisely beacuse of no laps and hence soft oice makes impression. whereever eeded kishoe as come with lectrifyig alaps for example ” aankhome humne apke apne sajaye hai” by khayyam. kishore has electrifying allap missed by lata.
also ten kishoe’s on compositiions. l re brilliant. jeevanse na haar jeenewale was repeatedly played during kargil war. It is sung very softly.
mai hu um zum umro is western but not at alll noisy.
Mr. XXX,
We talked about Pancham and RR in the western-type music genre, how about Kalyanji Anandji who had their own unique style when it came to western type music as well. They had their own rhythm ace in Babla who was as good as Pancham’s Maruti Keer or SJ’s Dattaram. They were also excellent when it came to fusion music, combining the elements of the east and west.
K-A are a very under-rated duo, just like RR is an under-rated composer, and the brothers gave us many of HFM’s finest songs. They made excellent use of a variety of singers, and Rafi-saab has sung many of his career-finest songs with this duo.
What are your views on K-A ?