Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?
This article is written by Mr.H.V.Guru Murthy.
A regular browser to web site mohdrafi.com, having gone through the letters of Rafi lovers would assume that R D Burman did not utilize Rafi properly, instead he preferred Kishore Kumar. Because of this reason, Rafi Fans are still upset with RDB even though he passed away a decade back.
Yes, it is true that RDB preferred KK over Rafi during early seventies. For that matter, which Music Director or Actor or Producer or Director will not have his preference. It was well known that Raj Kapoor always preferred Mukesh, Manoj Kumar preferred Mukesh or Mahendra Kapoor, B.R.Chopra films had Mahendra, MD Ravi also had plenty of songs with Mahendra so also O.P after he broke with Rafi. Similarly OP always had either Asha or Geetha Dutt and never Lata. Salil also used all other Singers. Director Subba Rao insisted on Mukesh for SAATHI even though the hero was Rajendra Kumar and MD Naushad, two Rafi Fans. Even Kalyanji Anandji had many films with Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and KK even though Rafi was instrumental in their raise through JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE, AAMNE SAAMNE, etc. LP, by all means Rafi Bhakts, used KK regularly in the early seventies even for Rafi heroes like Jeetendra, Dharmendra, etc. SJ also switched over to KK in movies like MAIN SUNDAR HOON, DIL DAULAT DUNIYA, KAL AAJ AUR KAL, etc. Of course, the music standard came down a notch or two in that period. But, well, it is their prerogative to have whomsoever they wanted though I am sure in heart of heart, why even openly, they would have admitted the superiority of Rafi over all other Singers. Similarly, RDB also used KK for almost all his movies in the early seventies as perhaps he had some special chemistry with him.
However, let us not forget that RDB used Rafi extensively during late sixties as his main playback singer right from the first movie. He gave hit music with Rafi in TEESRI MANZIL, NAQLI NAWAAB, CARAVAN, PYAAR KA MAUSAM, THE TRAIN, ABHILASHA, ADHIKAR, RATON KA RAAJA, etc. Later during late seventies he returned to Rafi and gave hits like SHAAN, HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, ABDULLAH, ZAMANE KO DIKHANA HAI, etc. In between, he had Rafi in CHANDI SONA qawali with Mannadey (Ek Shok Hasina Se), YADON KI BAARAT (Title song and who can forget the duet with Asha Chura Liya Hai Tumne), DIL KA BAADSHAH (this Raj Kumar starrer had all songs by Rafi), THE GREAT GAMBLER (Raftasa Mera Naam), SHEHZADA (Solo Tere Attaroo and duet with Lata Kaahe Ko Bulaya), etc.
If a person cannot appreciate the greatness of Rafi, then it can be safely concluded that the person does not have a sense of music. Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc. RD would have definitely known the great qualities of Rafi, the Singer. Just because he did not use Rafi extensively as one would expect, let us not degrade this MD who gave us some good songs in CHANDAN KA PALNA, PADOSAN, HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA, MERE JEEVAN SAATHI, AJNABEE, AMAR PREM, SANAM TERI KASAM, BHOOT BANGLA, BAHARON KE SAPNE (Rafi solo Zamane Ne Maare), PARICHAY, KINAARA, APNA DESH, ZAHREELA INSAAN, RAMPUR KA LAKSHAMAN (Pyaar Ka Samay with Lata, KK and Rafi), 1942 – A LOVE STORY, KATI PATANG to certain extent, etc. though he gave some very mediocre music in films like DEEWAR, SHOLAY, KITAAB, ZAKHMEE, RAFOO CHAKKAR, NAMKEEN, DHARAM KARAM and BIWI O BIWI (so un-RK film like), etc. so many forgettable movies as for as music was concerned.
The irony of RDB was either he gave good music or petered out to a very mediocre music in so many films. I read some where that Shashi Kapoor called RD as National Anthem Music Director. In those days, theatres used to play National Anthem at the end of the movie and the Hall doors used to be shut till the completion of the Anthem. As soon as the Anthem used to commence, our in-disciplined people used to rush to the Hall Door and wait for the door opening. Similarly, whenever RDB songs commenced in most of the movies, people used to rush to toilet.
Still, it is not fair that we use harsh and sometimes, un-parliamentary language against any body if they differ with our views. We cannot forget the contribution of all these MDs, Heroes, Singers, Directors, etc. in making the Indian Film Music so rich.
testing
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwrw4_taj-mahal-jo-waada-kiya_music
arghyaji was somewhat right in his statements.. The story of Tasveer teri dil me is correct, even i have read this in Raju Bharatn’s article..
Although I disagree with him on all the points, I can’t say he had put fake informations at least.. Yes, of course, the interpretation of history was different from his point of angle to ours..
Sandeepji.. Taseveer teri dilme incidence was true.. salil chowdhury was not happy.. why he was not that is upto dispute, of course..
Mr. nadkarni..
It is a very famous piece of history, and if you don;t know this it is your lack of homework not mine.. You may please visit salilda’s website http://www.salilda. com, then go to songs, then hindi songs where if you click you will find all the details.. Go to maya(1961), and you will find the story.. and yes, the story is not written by me!!! Still not conviced?? Contact me I will hand over the article by raju bharatan and salilda’s own interview published in The telegraph in 1993.. I am into journalism and know so many facts with back up but nobody insulted me like this!!
What is my fault, members? Only this, ki I love Kishore, Anil biswas and SD Burman also apart from rafisaab?? Did I use any bad comments about any great soul in this forum like so many others?? When someone claimed rafi could not adjust his voice to singers, I was the first person to raise my voice!!!! And you all ignored that, and started abusing me on certain points where I just mentioned facts, not even self-cooked stories??
Ok, fans, so be it.. I understand my fault and in the course of sharing my views if I have hurt anybody, I am sorry for that.. I love Rafisaab more than anybody else, but perhaps due to my profession, sometimes I don;t sound like a die-hard fan, that is my fault!!!But Mr. nadkarni, if you say, I cook up stories, you are most welcome to verify this with anyone else, but Salilda(not me, please don’t misinterpret), not happy with rafisaab’s rendering of “Taseveer teri Dil Me”( due to whatsoever reaon, i won’t go into that, there are logical members in this forum who know that), is a piece of history.. Not my self-cooked story.. I am, and for that matter, any of us, are too small people to cook up stories about such great souls!!!
Duniya ka sabse badiya logic:
Agar ‘X’ kehta hai ki Lata/Talat/Asha/Kishore kharab hai to woh Lata/Talat/Asha/Kishore ki galti hai..
Agar “X” kehta hai ki Rafi kharab hai to Y,Z, W koi bhi reason deke usko is tarah se mould kar do ki actually woh “X” ki hi galti hai.. hahahha
Mere kafi saare straight forward comments is forum se delete kar diya gaya.. sahi hai, kyun ki sab log ek jaise hi hai…. jinko dusron ko sanman dena nahi aata woh khud kya karenge??? enjoy… Is liye to rafi ke fans aaj Kishore ke fans se kam hai, 1 min, zyada behaz mat karo aur jaake popular communities mein search kar lo..
Rafi fans & admirers
Please remember the greatest Vijay Anand directorial beauty Teesree Manzil. Panchamda (RDB) had almost lost this film, but for the timely intervention & great assistance of Rafi Saab
Rafi Saab not only intervened but strongly recommended his all round efforts to see that the music of this film would be scored by none other than R D Burman
Friends this was the generosity & greatness of our beloved king of melody – Rafi Saab. What difference does it make if RD preferred KK
Dear Friends.Please Allow me to put some facts
1) We are not hating any body from golden era of hfm .
2) We also agree that in 1970’s Rafi saab was not in NO:1 postion in hfm and KK over took him in popularity.
3)We like KK songs(of any era) but not the likes of ‘ruk jana nahi’ or ‘yeh jawani ae deewani’ but the likes of ‘zindagi ka safar’ & ‘mera jeevan’
4)We firmly believe that at least some industry wallahs had biase against Rafi which includes some section of media too
5) We love those MDs who used Rafi in the best way a little more than other MDs.
6) We have the right to dislike those people who unreasonably said malicious things about the Farishta of singing Rafi saab
7) We values the opinion of the Great MDs(Present & Past),great Singers(Present & past)and musical critics about the uniqueness of Rafi saab than those ‘xyz’s commenting in this forum.
8) We don’t believe that Rafi saab was 100% perfect in singing,but we believe that he was near to the perfection.
9) We believe that Rafi saab was 100% perfect as a humen being and we adore him for that and we would liketo follow him in this regard.
Lastly, nadkarni.. It is for you..
Go through my posts properly, bloody before commenting them.. I said “Salilda thought rafi could have bettered” not me, bloody!! Who am I or for that matter you, to judge who could have bettered what?? I perosnally never took singing as profession, if you have, then also you can’t judge..you do not have the ability at all.. Why don;t you people read properly a post before reacting to it??
as far as the authenticity of that piece of history goes, i have given you two links, go through them, and if still not satisfied contact me, I will hand you over the excerpt of interview given by none other than Salilda himself in The Telegraph (I know you have never heard of this newspaper, it gets published from calcutta), 1993..
Deepali(post 1030)
Did I ever commented salil liked Kishore the most?? I have again gone through all my posts( considering to err is human) but did not find any such? Why did you think like this? Even I know Salilda’s favourite was mukeshji and I have the excerpt of that interview with me also..
Don’t misinterpret please..
Deepali and binuji..
I respect your statements and give you all support for it.. I never said Rafi could not modulate songs for heroes.. In my 8 years of film journalism, I have respected three musicians like god- Rafisaab, Kishoreda and S D Burman- due to different reasons.. So, sometimes, if you feel my observations not 100% inclined to rafi, you all people have all the right to protest..
But, Mr. Nadkarni sir, I think, you are short of homework here, not me..I don’t know how much you have studied film music or how much you have read about Salilda, if you have time, please visit his site http://www.salilda.com and I give you a link
http://www.salilda.com/filmsongs/hindi/maayaa.asp
For god’s sake, go through this link.. Also go through this:
http://specials.rediff.com/movies/2006/aug/23sld4.htm
I am too little a person to imagine cheap things about great souls like Mohammed Rafi saab or create any sort of controversy.. The reason of putting this Maya story by me was not an intentional one( I think as a short homework of yours, you have not read all my posts properly also), but a reaction to certain people who used some languages, which i thought was not decent, to some music directors whom i respect( above the rafi or non-rafi criteria)… Homework I do, and I have my backups with me(film journalism does not run with imagination)… Neither me nor you were there at the time of recprding of maya, right? What we know, what we discuss is all what we read.. I don;t know about you, I personally have read literature of Hindi songs more than many people in this forum..By putting such remarks, you are ridiculing yourself( as you did not know such a common piece of history of Maya which Deepali in her post also said she knows)…
Arghya says whatever he has studied, read and understood.. You can question me on my understanding, debate and argue with me like others here do for healthy discussions, but don’t use these bloody childish remarks at me, given any day I can screw you with my knowledge in music history(and yes, with backup-not cooking up stories!!!)
Post 1032 : very aptly said mr.nadkarni ji about the “lazy” bug who is a late entry in these pages.
the bug wants to defend anil biswas who said “rafi is no singer at all” to prove his favourite talat mehmood to be the best. this lazy bug invents theories like our raju bharatan about rafi saahebs limitations to create a controversey – like the quoted maya song. this bug wants me to apologise for what i had to say about anil biswas. this lazy bug must know that there are lacs of rafi lovers everywhere who has only “dislike for anil biswas” down saying his “infamous words”.
after saying all nonsense about rafi, anil b. never had the guts to owe his statements, back tracking it all the time. this breed of people are called “spineless” in my dictionary, which will never change – even if oxford changes the meaning in its forthcoming editions.
as haldar saaheb said before, i am cautiioning rafi lovers to be aware of such bugs – found mostly under train seats who attack unsuspecting people from the knees. no tik 20 or baygon or a goodnight spray to shoo them away works. mohd rafi lovers to take note.
binu nair
Mr. Bose,
Your point is well taken. Anil Biswas was a good music director – a pioneer in the field, for he gave the shape to the film songs in their present format. But as a human being he had several flaws. He was short tempered and impulsive as well as a person with no courage to stand up to his opinion.
The demeaning statement about Rafi sahib was not only mentioned by Raju Bharatan but it was covered in well-know Urdu film magazine “Shamaâ€. His short temper was also evident when he, according to Raju Bharatan, “once slapped the singer when he failed to turn up for a recordingâ€.
Do you know who that singer was? It was one of the most revered singers of the hfm.
We may have respect for his art but how can we have any respect for his personality?
I respect the contributions of all Music Directors and Singers to the Hindi Film Industry, but some facts cannot be ignored. Music Directors who used rafi extensively survived for decades like SJ, LP, KA, SDB, Naushad, OPN, MM, Roshan and even Chitragupt, Sonik Omi etc. but others who either ignored Rafiji totally or discontinued his songs fell by the way side.
When Rafiji became the number 1 Singer in the late fiftees, whoever used him survived. Whoever did not use Rafi like Anil Biswas, C Ramachandra could not make the same impact as the other MDs mentioned above. Of course, I am not casting aspersions on the capabilities of these GREAT MDs, but fact is a fact. By sixties, AB and CR were not a force to reckon with. Salil was never bracketed with the other top MDs. Similarly, OPN when he discrded Rafi and went to MK, though still his songs were good, he was not the same force as he was earlier. Even RDB had to come back to Rafi to regain his spot.
My argument is that whichever MD due to personal prejudices did not use Rafi, suffered. In fact even other MDs like LP, SJ, etc. used other Singers like Mannadey, Mukesh, etc. but they were never personally prejudiced. And all these MDs were not as magnanimous as OPN to admit that they made a mistake by ignoring Rafi.
Binu Nair,
regarding your message 1025, even if we assume that Anil Biswas is spineless (though all we have for proof are the press “quotes”, mainly by Raju Bharatan), what has that got to do with his credentials as far as music direction is concerned ?
My logic is that it does not reduce the beauty of his compositions. He may be a flawed human being, but that has no effect on his command over the musical idiom. Mixing these two is not the logical thing to do.
I always respect someone who fought in the indian freedom struggle, and biswas was an active participant in the freedom struggle. This suggests that he was not spineless.
Manishji:
Nice of you to respond to my mail.
I’ve very little to disagree with you (this time). I (like you) have nothing against the father for giving all the songs to KK which he did. After all, KK was like ‘his own boy’ and was singing (and selling) very well at that point of time. However I do hold a grudge against SDB for simply ignoring ‘The Mohammed Rafi’- not just the person but all that goes along with that name- that style, that feel, that versatility, that perfection. That he was simply going along with the tide (perpetuated by his son!) may sound good enough an explanation to many, but not to me. I’m sure he could have created another ‘Pyaasa’ or ‘Guide’ with the ‘baadshah’ at his side, instead he had to share the space with his son and LP and KA (and often sounding like one of them) during his later days.
Yeah, I also like listening to KK now and then, infact I’m listening to ‘pyar deewana hota hai….’ as I write this. By the way I can’t make out much from your comment that you like listening to ‘mere sapnon ki raani..’ by Rafisahab. Is it a typo or do you mean to say that you have Rafisahab’s version of ‘mere sapnon ki raani..’ with you?
Agree with all who declares that Rafisahab has no match when it comes to adapting the voice, mannerisms and styles of the actor for whom he lip-synched. KK was pretty good here but not exactly in the “Rafi class’. KK did a nice job on the ‘dada’ heroes of ’70s, actually he didn’t have to do much way of voice/ style modulation for them since his natural hard hitting style and rough(ing) voice took adequate care of things. When he sang for the ‘softies’ (like Rishi, as mentioned in a recent post) his voice didn’t take care of things but his fans did. Rafisahab on the other hand, did superbly on all types of them -soft chaps, ‘dada’ types, old ones, commedians, ‘jumping jacks’, brooders, et al.
My posts with video links aren’t finding their way here, otherwise I’d have loved to provide some links of both these fine play-backers.
Dear administratorji:
Could you please clarify why my posts with youtube links are getting ‘lost in transit’? My mail id is anilcherianca@yahoo.com if you prefer to mail me the reason.
If am not wrong Anil Biswas was at the top in 1940’s ,Naushad in 1950’s.SJ in 1960’s and LP in 1970’s(as I think)
Anil Biswas Ji used Mohd Rafi in 1958 when mohd Rafi was at the top and he was Talat Ji fan and Talat Ji himself a Mohd Rafi fan.If am not wrong Mohd Rafi liked Talat ji sad songs.why Anil Biswas Ji used Mohd Rafi more than KK if he liked KK more than Mohd Rafi
As said by Naushad a’ KK asked him that why you don’t give me songs” I hope you all know the answer what Naushand said offourse Naushad never said that KK is not a good singer..
I think all of you agree that Music born in 1940’s,was child in 1950’s ,was young in 1960’s ,was old in 1970’s and end in 1980’s but you don’t think that all because of Mohd Rafi……….
Please be honest with yourself and think that your are a human …..
i LOVE the mohammed rafi and rd burman songs! they’re my afves of the 70’s..
guys just how rd prefered kk, naushad prefered rafi.
Dear Arghyajee Namaskar & Good Evening
It was indeed a pleasure to read your comments especially your posts 1017 & 1018. Probably from your very childhood it seems that you were damn lazy in doing your home work properly. I very much doubt whether it was Salildas thoughts OR your own imaginative cheap thinking that the song titled Tasveer Teree Dil Mein could have been still bettered by Rafi. Who do you think would have sung this song better than Rafi. If you have the list with you please arrange to publish it only after doing your home work properly and without committing any mistakes. Ask Salilda as to why songs like Tothe Huwe Khabon ne hamko ye sikhaya hai were given to Rafi Saab when he had his own lot of singers who according to you would have sung this song much better. Have some sence before you comment since Salilda I assume properly knew which songs were meant for other singers and the best & the most difficult was always reserved for Rafi Saab
From your childish attitude & behaviour I am of the personal opinion that your comments definately lack the ability & quality required to judge a paricular song and either you have no work or you may be interested only in raising filthy controversies as a hobby of your time pass
Whom do you think from this lot promoted Rafi Saab, whether it was Hemanthda, Salilda, Anil Biswasda, Sachinda, Rahulda. The answer will be no one because they all had a common platform to promote more of their own singers and the answer of which probably you yourself may know better.
If this was the trend then why the hell did Kishoreda prefer Rafi Saab singing for him in various films & variuos songs. Do you know which were these songs sung by Rafi Saab for Kishoreda or you want me to tell you. Was it a mere joke from your angle or whether Kishoreda was unable to render those songs for which Rafi had to be summoned. Do you have any simple answer for this Arghyajee. The answer will be no since you are yourself very weak in your home work which i had said earlier
Please note very importantly Arghyajee that this site is purely meant & dedicated to the Greatest Ever Mohammed Rafi Saab and we all his fans & admirers over the years have in our adversity & great respect have held great patience & perseverance till now but if somebody of your calibre tries to take us for a ride we are not going to tolerate the same which please note very importantly.
May good sence prevail upon you arghyajee
Mr.Bose,
That S-J and OPN wave wasn’t alone for the Anil Biswas, every MD of that mold that is classy mold suffered due to the wave started by S-J, but being Rafi their side,music directors such as Roshan and Naushad and MM survived very well and carved a separate niche for themselves even in the rock ‘n’ roll era.
Please note that Roshan wasn’t a Rafi-lover too, but he immediately shifted to Rafi in 60’s to survive further,such was a Rafi’s dominance at the outset 0f 60’s, and why Roshan , every big and small MD shifted to Rafi in 60’s and those who didn’t, had to take a retirement. Even a Great composer like C.Ramchandra had to halt after such a lucrative career, obviously due to anti-Rafi bias, now what excuse would you give in cr’s case? Even Salil would have never survived too, had there not been a strong backing of Bimal Roy for him.
But that doesn’t mean Anil Biswas wasn’t great, yes he was a great MD, somone who could compose “Mohabbat tark ki maine(Doraha,Talat Sahab)” can never be a fake, but the fact is that his decline started with Rafi’s Reign. tell me, how many big banners backed him after Rafi Sahab became numero uno?.
post 1017 and 1018
Arghya sir
I totally disagree with ur views..
Infact Rafi sahab changed his voice to suit Dilip,Johnny walker,Mehmood and even for Dharam(where there was a slight nasal voice) etc…and that was perfect.. Nothing to talk about Shammi the yahoo star or even for his brother Shashi or nephew Rishi
I find kks songs all simillar and for Big B, the unfortunate Sudesh Bhosle was the best voice. Iam not saying that kk did not sing well but he was the voice of big B, Rk because of the populariy at that time…Kk did tried his best for Rk and Big B but failed miserably with others like Dharam.,Rishi,jeethu,mehmood, etc…
Another misconception which is the creation of Raju Bharatan about Maya song of Salil da..Infact it is wellknown that Lataji had already sung the bengali tune earlier and the Md was not fair for Rafi sahab who as usually smiles for sometimes even serious songs… perhaps the md was put off by this and then he regreted his actions..
Also Arghya sir for Salil da fav is Mukesh,Manna dey and Talat and not kk
Deepali
Post 1025
In this post I fully agree with you Binujee, mainly since no one has ever dared to take a gentleman of Rafi Saabs caliber for a ride and further no one should ever dare & try such gimmicks in future
If a musician of the caliber of Anil Biswas dares to say that Rafi is not a singer at all then in this context I would love & definitely add to say that Anil Biswasjee you are by no means were ever fit to be a music director in the first part, and further over all the years you were in the industry you have been a total waste and your contribution automatically counts a big Zero
Rafi was the best at “voice modulation”, adapting his voice to match/suit the actor (Rafi suited more actors than any other singer). No other singer could modulate his voice as effectively as Rafi. This was not only in terms of style, but mannerisms, voice similarity and so forth. Kishore only could modulate his voice effectively for a few actors.
About the other topics, not going to bother replying to them, as most have already been discussed and addressed previously on this and other threads, and a good number of the recent comments made are humbug.
I agree with Kapil, the RDB-Rafi chapter is definitely “golden”.
Reg. message 1019,
That was not the reason why Anil da went off into oblivion.
Firstly, Anil Biswas could not mould himself to compose the new wave of music that was brought in by S-J and also OPN. As a result, Biswas was on the way out by 1955-1956 itself.
Secondly, Biswas lost his brother and son in 1961. He was depressed for a long time after that and moved away from Bombay to New Delhi. He composed “choti choti batein” in 1965 and took an offer from AIR after that.
So, Biswas’ decline had nothing to do with not using Rafi. He was already on the way down by the time Rafi was becoming the number one singer (around 1956-1957). His decline was because he was unable to change his music with the times.
Your analogy is faulty. I guess, using your logic, one could say Naushad went into oblivion in the 1970’s because of his refusal to use Kishore. See where that takes you.
post 1021 arghya : I am referring to the views of naushad saaheb, his qualities as a great human being and one of the greatest composers hindi music has ever seen.
Naushad saaheb never said that Kishore Kumar is not a singer but anil biswas made the great deplorable, malicious comment that mohd rafi is “not a singer at all”.
Please do not complicate/confuse matters and try to understand what respect mohd rafi lovers have for mr.anil biswas – for his jaundiced views.
binu nair
a person must owe his words, if he had said it and if feels “very strongly” about it. then we call him a man, a real man.
Its reported that anil biswas said : rafi is not a singer at all. he was challenged, of course by countless music lovers and mohd rafi fans at many and all places wherever he went.
anil biswas ought to have : sticked to his above views that “rafi is no singer at all”. no he never did stand by his statement. he used to fumble, find escape routes and very often used to give vague justifications to the effect that he is not spared and will not be spared for his totally malicious viewpoints.
i for one would be happy if he struck to his views and never called anil biswas spineless. we will ever name him so – cause he ran away from his known positions, whenever he was asked/challenged – about his jaundiced views on mohd rafi saaheb.
we all know that c.ramchandra and salil da did not use mohd rafi much nor did r.d.burman. but, we respect them as gret composers. even s.d.burman who rarely used rafi services – in the last decade of his life. they were men of substance, views – all having their identity and greatness.
about salil, it would be interesting to say and note what salil da felt about mohd rafi. salil da used to say : mohd rafi would take away all the credit for the song. no one would mention salil – this was his grouse. (madhumati, maya, Kabuliwallah and others )
only pride was the factor herein , nothing else. we do not resent it for it is a human quality. we love salil da and his music. no issues – whatsoever.
anil biswas never had an identity as a man, only false pride. his love for talat mehmood – made him blind and single out mohd rafi – who replaced talat saaheb. now, anil biswas lovers lovers and his tails will say that mohd rafi lovers do not like talat saaheb.
wrong again. we love all singers,, musicians and creators of great art. we love kishore kumar, talat mehmood, manna dey and all of them – for the joy they gave us.( talat saaheb is my second favourite singer – matter-of-fact.)
one thing more, they all loved mohd rafi saaheb, the epitome of modesty and singing style and melody.
but, definitely, i have reservations on anis biswas ji – who said rafi is not a singer at all.
thank god, there is only one person in this world – who said so. and he disowned his views according to “situations” when confronted.
that’s why i call anil biswas ji – spineless.
binu nair. mumbai……..
Surajit,
Thank you for clearing my view. I did read Sanjeev’s article about his meeting Anil Biswas. It seems like all of this is a big misunderstanding instigated by Raju Bharatan. Also let me correct my misinterpretation of the senior poster from Hamaraforums: he only said that Anil Biswas didn’t think highly of Rafi and nothing more. Yes, you’re right, there’s no indication of spite from a variety of sources with the exception of Raju Bharatan whom as you rightly say is very unreliable. The simple truth is that Anil Biswas preferred other singers and used them. I’m 100% ok with that. In fact, I welcome the variety and am content as Rafi was loyally backed by dozens of other great MDs. With a clarification like this, there should be no trouble between Rafi fans & Anil Biswas. In fact, he looked like a very lovable fellow in the photo of him with Sanjeev & family. So glad he lived a long and successful life. There is absolutely no reason to take offense if someone else (Anil Biswas or anyone) has a personal preference that is different. You can’t entirely blame Rafi fans as I hold Raju Bharatan greatly responsible for misleading people. This guy is responsible for the exacerbating Rafi vs Kishore, Rafi & Tasveer Teri Dil Mein, Rafi & Dilip Kumar, recently Rafi & Pancham, more recently a tasteless “tribute” to the late Mahendra Kapoor, and many more. Yes, I’m very grateful for Anil Biswas’ contributions (even if I have yet to fully experience & appreciate) and have nothing but warm regard. Thanks again for the clarification! Very much appreciated.
– Manish
Hi Binu Nair,
regarding your messages 1015 and 1016,
That’s fine with me if you feel that way. Thankfully, majority of the musical fans do not think that way. They just enjoy the music without going into personal equations.
Dear all,
i fully disagree with this fact tht kk wud be able to adapt more to an actors voice this is completely untrue never ever by just hearing a kk song scud i guess who the actor was until n unless i have seen tht movie. kk had a pretty nice voice only till once he became a regular voice for big b he made his voice so hoarse tht he started sounding like big b for rajesh khanna or rishi kapoor for tht matter just listen to -‘kya mausam hain’ from ‘doosra aadmi’. infact i feel tht kk reached a point from whr he was unable to get back to his original voice ..!!
abt dev anand although kk has sung more than 50% of his songs give me rafi-dev combo any day infact for me the variety of songs that rafisaab sang for dev eclipses the variety he sang for the all the other actors combined from ‘o jiya ho’ to ‘saathi na koi manzil’ from ‘khoya khoya chand’ to ‘din dhal jaye’ from ‘sun le tu dil ki sada’ to ‘dil ka bhawar kare pukar’ and the list goes on; he also adapted to devs mannerisms better than kk, i feel tht the song ‘mana janaab ne pukara’ shud have been sung by rafisaab coz he was singing such songs for dev during tht period with elan.once dev left rafisaabs hand he lost out on the quality songs as well.there r hardly any memorable songs of dev in the 70-80s…!!
also i disagree with this fact tht just by listening to a song u can guess who the actor was until n unless u have seen tht movie u cant guess who the actor is for eg just by listening to the song ‘apni aankhon mein basakar koi iqraar
karu’ i cud never guess tht the actor was baldev khosla similarly just by listening to ‘aanewala pal jaane wala hain’ i wud never be able to make out tht it was picturised on amol palekar. whenever i listen to a song i first try to figure out who the singer is rather than guessing the name of the actor ….!!
lastly lets not fight over who was great and who was not as all the music personalities have their places etched in the history.
Binuji..
I never said Naushad commented” Kishore Kumar is not a singer at all”.. Go through my post again..I said Naushad never acclaimed Kishore as a high singer(mentioned in an article of Raju Bharatan)..So did O P Nayyar( comented in Vividh bharati).. My intention to say was personal remarks made by a great to a great does not make any one of them inferior.. That is what we fans should understand first.. Salil chowdhury recorded mere 20 songs with Rafi throughout his career, and in an interview in a bengali journal in 1989, he mentioned his unhappiness with Rafi regarding some songs which propeled him to unuse Rafi a bit, even though Rafi did good job in Madhumati and Maya..I hope that does not make any of Salilda or rafisaab less great??
What I appeal you all is to understand this..Not turning and twisting my earnest and practical remarks into emotional hegemonies!!
In Salil’s forte that is in fusion music and orchestration, i rate his peers Shankar-Jaikishan much ahead of him, and it’s very well evident that how well they used Rafi. RD was another great MD who did fusion music very well, his association with Kishore is a golden chapter of course but Rd’s association with Rafi too is an another golden chapter of HFM.
re p 1016
Salil was a good MD but not a phenomenal music personality like Rafi, so it hardly matters whether he used Rafi or not .. regarding Anil Biswas, yes he was one of the gurus of HFM beyond any doubt like Naushad, CR,SD etc, but because of his anti-Rafi bias he also had to go to an oblivion in 60’s like CR.
Dear Anilji..
As I am a fan of both rafi and Kishore, I can appreciate what Ravi said to be true.. As far as adapting a song for a particular actor is concerned, Kishore was the best.. There is no two thoughts about it.. at least, only for this point.. But, I also protested Ravi when he said rafi could not do that at all.. Rafi could do it, but Kishore took it to perfection!! You, with an open heart, should admit it! The way Kishore depicted Dev Anand’s mannerism or Amitabh’s charisma on screen was a learning to the industry! We should appreciate the good points of other singers too! And you said, 70s audience were forcefully loaded with kishore whereas they wanted to hear Rafi is not very analytical comment.. Kishore was really singing well that time, which we should admit.. Dada Burman also said somewhere in 1971, that now, he had got full faith on Kishore’s voice which he was lacking in the 60s..
If audience were forcefully loaded with Kishore, they would have taken it for 1year, 2 years but on the 3rd year, Kishore’s songs would have started flopping(see what is happening to Himesh nowadays)..But KK ruled from 1969 to 1987..Yes, he did get strong backing from good directors, maestros like SD Burman and Pancham, but also, he was singing well- we should respect that! And, public also loved him and love him till today.. His fan following(mass popularity) is much higher even today, although the mass is mostly non-musical(that ia a separate issue:)
Salil chowdhury was also not happy with Rafi’s singing..Especially in the duet “Taseveer Teri dil Me” where he thought rafi could have done better…He last recorded with Rafi in 1965 in “Chand Aur Sooraj” and then stopped recording.. Until 1980-the year Rafi died- Salil never went back to him, whereas he gave challenging assignments to Mukesh, Kishore and Manna dey.. now, I am awaiting when the members here would comment that “Even Salil did not know music” as he never promoted rafi!!!
That way, apart from Anil Biswas, we have got people like Salilda and R D Burman who did not understand music or “chamelion”, perhaps?
mr.argyaa and company to note :
jo aadmi kehta hai : “ke mohd rafi singer he nahi hai”, woh sangeetkar hi nahi, sahi insaan bhi nahin.”
i hope you know where my “ishara” lies.
binu nair, mumbai……
anil biswas had said : mohd rafi is no singer at all. this was reported widely and we detest this man until someone in his family come about and say that “anil biswas did’nt say it all”. its a media creation and this bury this controversey.
many rafi fans have confronted him and this spineless music composer used to eat his words. many rafi fans have cornered him for deriding mohd rafi and that includes : 1) mr.c.m.desai from mumbai , the renowed musicologist and record collector, 2 ) mr. shabbir bhai jetpurwale : record collector and rafi fan and many others.
==================================================
mr. argyaa : naushad saaheb never said kishore kumar is not a singer, mind this and do not vent your misinformation herein; it is unacceptable.
a complete musician ought to be a good person from the heart and mind. anil biswas fails this test even though he has made some good songs.
binu nair
personal comments of even an elite md isn’t something to always be taken to heart. you have to use discretion. if c ramachandra said lata was no better than a tape recorder then we realize how to interpret that. it’s also true that some words written in print can be taken out of context. you don’t know the mood or manner of utterance of the words. it’s also true that we are humans and momentarily we deviate from our usual self and say things that don’t really represent us. raju bharatan is likely to exploit all these factors and sensationalize. in fact, if i understand correctly, the piece by raju bharatan on anil biswas was written without anil biswas’ consent. anil biswas did not knowngly sit down for an interview on that occasion. raju bharatan showed up to his house uninvited in a private gathering of friends and heard these things as a bystander and made it public. that’s not exactly fair. i heard this description from an elderly poster at hamaraforums who claimed to have known anil biswas.
truth be told, i’m not even sure of exactly what anil biswas said nor do i care. i’ve heard several versions. i understand the feelings of other rafi fans. they are under the impression that anil biswas made spiteful, personal, and comments beyond the bounds of personal preference for music. even if anil biswas isn’t soley responsible and has been unfairly invaded of his private thoughts, regardless of the reason, the end result is that it was understandably hurtful to rafi fans. theres special weight of accountability on anil biswas because he is *actually* a person of significance (this applies to others alike).
mehdi hassan: he made comments *limited to his personal taste* for music and i can respect that. his comments are of little surprise given his style of singing.
op nayyar: he gave his explanation in “good spiritsâ€. he has always been very respectful of lata. as a side note, common sense indicates that he & lata never came together due to personal incompatability rather than music.
naushad: naushad may not have preferred kishore’s style but was he ever spiteful? no. rd burman may have preferred someone other than rafi but he was never spiteful (the raju bharatan article of last year was a joke) and that’s why there’s no reason to take offense from either md.
anil biswas supposedly went beyond. he didn’t just simply say he didn’t like rafi. his words were *presented* with connotations of spite (and this separates him from the above examples). this is not a completely rational subject but a topic dear to the hears of many rafi fans. besides, no one is perfect and that includes anil biswas. if he’s called on it, so be it. when anil biswas was asked to rate lata’s top 10 songs, all ten of his choices were his own. that’s fine (and sensible as he was an accomplished md) but it is also somewhat of an indication about his perspective for others.
Fine discussions all around, let me throw my 2 cents into it.
The part about why Rafisahab wasn’t the regular voice for Rajesh was well-explained by Manishji. The ‘wind of change’ was blowing pretty strong and Rafisahab (for once) felt its might. To add to it, the Bollywood was changing and someone as upright as Rafisahab would have found himself swimming against the tide.
Coming to the point about Anil Biswas’ comments on Rafisahab’s lack of variety, let me say, for all his musical wizardy Biswas suffered from some kind of bias (which finally proved to be his undoing). Otherwise this MD wouldn’t have been at Rafi sahab’s back every now and then, with some lousy comment or the other. How can any one in the right frame of mind say that Rafisahab couldn’t adapt to various actors? If anyone did this, it has to be Rafisahab. With all due respects to KK, I just don’t believe he made much effort to sound different for the different ‘superstars’ of the ’70s. Personally, the voice in ‘mere naina…’ and ‘o sathire…’ doesn’t sound different from each other while ‘kaun hai jo sapnon mein…’ sounds distinctly different from ‘pathar k sanam…’.
Speaking of singer-actor combos, I don’t suppose any singer can make or break an actor. He can at best be a major ingredient. We’ve had many fantastic combos of singers who actually sounded close to the actors – RK-Mukesh, Rajendra-Rafi and Amitabh-KK are good examples. Outside this, I don’t think a singer can propel someone to stardom and sustain him there. When SRK shot into superstardom, it was Kumar Sanu who did the chunk of playbacking for him, then it was Udit and now (I believe) it’s mostly Sonu. Now who among these shall be credited with the honours of making SRK a big star.
And I don’t think a singer’s fotunes (unlike an actor’s), rests (directly)on the love, film-watchers have for him. There are more factors at play. I don’t suppose people wanted to hear ony Kishoreda during the early ’70s; they heard him because that’s what they were getting to hear because that’s what the movie-producers ‘thought’ the people wanted to hear. And I don’t think ‘Amar prem’would have been less successful had Rafisahab sung ‘Chingarie…’. We (in Kerala) had a scenario where the much-loved Jayachandran went through a lean patch during the ’90s. Then he started recording from around 95-96, just like that. He didn’t change his singing style nor did he try to play around with his natural voice. It was that he was always loved by the people but these people were being denied of his songs because the movie-makers ‘thought’ that people wanted someone else.
Rather, I liked the comments of Mr. Manish kumar, who seem to be a more matured Rafi fan than Mr. binu nair..
This is for HV Gurumurthy ji..
Sir, when I commented that there is a problem with we Rafi fans regarding “hating” all those MDs, Actors, Singers responsible for not lifting Rafi, you, alongwith others protested me.. I gave a few internet links where in open forum people declare that Rafi fans are biased(which hurts me a lot), but nobody bothered to read it or just overlooked it..
Now,sir, go through the post 1003 by Mr. binu Nair..What hatred is spilling out for a MD who did not admit Rafi to be the best..? Did any Kishore fan condemn Naushad or lata fans condemn OP Nayyar?? Why are we like this? Now, you will say(and many others), that this is not true and all.. But the naked truth is this- post no. 1003- we disrespect all except Mphd Rafi.. We attend other singers’ function to show off, but internally, we don’t respect anyone.. If naushad said bad about Kishore, that was because Kishore was a bad singer.. But if Anil Biswas said bad about Rafi, that was because Anil biswas did not know music!!!! Come on friends, let us be more practical and show some maturity!!!
Yes, I agree with Surajit.. Binu Nair’s comments on Anil Biswas were overreaction.. I also don’ t think Anil Biswas to be the best, but i respect him or his feelings..
Binuji should apologize for his remarks.. These were harsh remarks and not dignified enough..
Well..well.. raviji!! Yes, I do remember you posting some hard statements about kishore in one of his communities as well, right(Qawali and kishore or something like that?)..One thing I like about you is you put things straight forward, like what you told here and you told in the previous forum also(there also, you created a lot of fuss, as far as I remember)..
But, let us be practical and not emotionally carried away and I found some points of yours here agreeable and some disagreeable.
Agreeable point is: yes, Rafi did bring some changes in his voice quality in the late 70s, that even Rafi fans know..And as you rightly put, that was the mood of the time, with “Enforced Masculinity”(according to you)..I support you on this..
Disagreeable point is: Like what Binuji said, Anil biswas is not a benchmark.. since, you used Anil Biswas’ name once only and that too to prove only one point, I can forgive you..But, I do not agree with you fully on the point tht rafi saab did not change his voice according to the actor..how can we forget Shammi Kapoor and his yahoo?? Also, remember, heroes in 60s(Rajendra Kumar, Joy mukherjee,Vishwajeet) did not have distinct style of acting like superstars of 70s(Rajesh Khanna,Amitabh Bachchan) for whom Rafisaab used to sing.. So, it was not possible for him also to enact a song according to the style of an actor..But, those who actually had a style(Shammi Kapoor, Dilip Kumar), for them Rafisaab did full justice!! sorry,Raviji, I differ with you on this point..
Lastly, did anyone mention particularly Kishore’s name when they said “other singers delivered hits with superstars only”?? I think you took that comment on wrong spirit. Even i am a Kishore fan and I also really think some of Kishore’s mindblowing numbers( u mentioned some, I willl add to that “Dil Kya Kare”,”Chalte Chalte Mere yeh geet”,”Pyaar manga hai tumhi se” etc. also) came without superstars..But I really don’ t think members here indirectly pointed to KK for that remark.. so, you have told the right thing, but out of context!!
So, thanks for your last post Ravi bhai..But i m sure you will keep on reading our remarks on that also;)..I m sure so many others will come..
@ Ravi ji:
Yes Rafi’s songs with Rajesh Khanna were all hits, but by that time Kishore Kumar had already established himself as Rajesh Khanna’s voice. So why would RD change.
In fact, the greatness of rafi saab was that he was so great LP gave HIM the title track of aan milo sajna. COULD ANY SINGER DO THAT WITH SHAMMI KAPOOR?
I think manna sang a couple of shammi but who remembers those? Udit ji’s favourite song is yeh reshmi zulfein, a rajesh-rafi song.
Rafi infact BECAME the voice of rishi kapoor deservingly so.
Hi Binu Nair,
Regarding your post 1003, I disagree with what you feel about Anil Biswas. I respect your feelings about Rafi, but I cannot understand why you and a few other fans here should disrespect somebody just because they do not consider Rafi as their favourite singer. Even the superb ghazal singer Mehdi Hassan said something similar about Rafi’s voice being too loud to his taste. Should we use that to declare Mehdi Hassan also as a fake singer ?
OPN said the same thing about Lata not being able to sing his songs and that’s why he used Asha and/or Geeta. Now I wonder how it would be if some Lata fans rip apart OPN because of that. Naushad said the same thing about Kishore Kumar, and yet I never used that as an excuse to disrespect Naushad.
Come to think of it, there is a double standard here. When Naushad says the same thing about Kishore, it is because Kishore is not good enough, and yet when Biswas or CR say something similar about Rafi, it is because they are not good MDs.
I can only think of two reasons why you do not like Anil Biswas:
1. Because he did not think very highly of Rafi.
2. Because you do not like his music.
If the reason is 1, then I must say that you take these things way too much to heart. Not everybody has the same views or tastes as you do. Every person is different. You should accept that and not bear any grudge towards those people who do not subscribe to your views. You must judge them by the merit of their work as commented upon by people from all categories – not just Rafi or Kishore fans. Fans of Lata or Talat or even Mukesh are extremely fond of Biswas’ music.
If the reason is 2, then I think you are really missing something. Anil Biswas was one of the most creative and stalwart music director in HFM. As great as Naushad was, he himself said many times (most notably in the “Sa Re Ga Ma” program that was aired in 2000 – with Sonu Nigam as the host – and where Biswas, Naushad, OPN, veteran singer Rajkumari were all guests of honour) that he learnt a lot from Anil Biswas.
Anil Biswas was the first MD to derive a structure for the hindi film song as we know it today. He was the first to introduce a musical refrain in the beginning of the song, followed by a mukhda, the antara or multiple antaras, and then ending the song with a similar refrain.
He was the first to introduce the concepts of melody and counter-melody to highlight dramatic aspects in a song. His compositions were superb blends of folk and classical music.
And please do not think that nobody remembers Anil Biswas’ music. Maybe you and many others on this forum do not know him because he doesn’t have too many songs with Rafi. But there are scores of knowledgeable music fans who swear by his music. Some of the most beautiful songs of Lata Mangeshkar and Talat are composed by Biswas.
If you cannot appreciate exquisite compositions such as:
“Dheere dheere aa re badal dheere” (Kismet, 1942, Arun Kumar/Ashok Kumar)
“Ae dil mujhe aisi jagah le chal” (Arzoo, 1950, Talat)
“Kahan tak uthaaye hum gham” (Arzoo, 1950, Lata)
“Seene mein sulagte hain armaan” (Taraana, 1951, Lata and Talat)
“Be-imaan tore nainwa” (Taraana, 1951, Lata)
“Ek main hoon ek meri” (Taraana, 1951, Talat)
“Nain mile nain hue baawre” (Taraana, 1951, Lata and Talat)
“O jaane waale rahi ek pal ruk jaana” (Rahi, 1953, Lata)
“Husn bhi hai udhaas” (Fareb, 1953, Kishore Kumar)
“Aa mohabbat ki basti” (Fareb, 1953, Kishore and Lata)
“Ritu aaye ritu jaaye sakhi ri” (Humdard, 1953, Lata and Manna Dey) – a beautiful ragamala exclusively rendered by both Manna and Lata
“Naa dir deem” (Pardesi, 1957, Lata)
and the list goes on, you are definitely missing something.
Anil Biswas still is one of the most revered and missed MD by a lot of HFM fans, especially those who love classy and complex tunes.
The same goes for C Ramachandra. Again, some of Lata’s best compositions come from the ouvre of CR.
When we talk about artists, we should judge them based on their art and not by how good or bad they were personally, or whether they had similar tastes as us.
980 anil cherian,
thanks my friend for the thumbs up. you say sdb could have done a balancing act for rafi & kishore. i’m content with sd burman giving kishore a lot of songs in the 70s. (1) the 70s was a golden opportunity for sd burman to be a little more fair to kishore. in the earlier decade he used a lot more rafi. it’s important to note that overall, at the end of his career, sd burman was fair to both rafi & kishore. 96 songs for rafi, 110+ songs for kishore? that’s 1:1 more or less. (2) there was no reason NOT to use a lot of kishore given the immense success of his songs in aradhana and that it was the kishore wave. (3) kishore was doing a great job in most of the songs he sang. we hardcore rafians will generally still prefer rafi but we have to give consideration to the other people who have different intrinsic tastes. as an example, once a month i always play “zindagi ek safar hai suhana” and “mere sapano ki rani” in my head in the velvet smooth, sweet, anglic, robust and loving voice of rafi but i respect the fact that other people swear by kishore’s rendition.
(4) sd burman was adding a variety of singing renditions to his career. this is why he is a favorite of both rafi & kishore fans alike! sometimes i hear my fellow rafians wish that rafi sang “badi sooni sooni hai”. i’m sure he would have done a great job but i also loved kishore’s rendition! can’t compare kishore’s rendition to how rafi would have approached it because in this particular case both were great in his own way. kishore’s voice is very poignant and soothing. there are moments in the song where he emotes choking sadness and every now and then it melts my heart. absolutely love it. if i’m in the mood for rafi i just switch to “din dhal jaye”. two great, different renditions. both sides (rafi fans & kk fans) are happy and no one is left empty handed. this wouldn’t be the case for kk fans if rafi sang both songs (whereas of course the rafi fans would be even more happy as rafi’s style hits their heart more). of course you may question occasional “misses” like “sala mai to sahab ban gaya” but even those songs have a niche every now and then. we humans are whimsicals. sometimes i’m in the mood for something boisterous rather than soothing. it doesn’t always make sense i know.
(5) i don’t know how little or how much sd burman relied upon rd burman’s collaboration during his last years when his health was checkered. rd burman liked rafi but he liked kishore even more and worked more often with the latter. finally, all these reasons are just possibilities. of course we don’t know what was actually in his mind. people are whimsical and nothing is black and white. finally anil, it’s always fun discussing music with you and it’s perfectly cool if you don’t agree with my opinions or we have different views. it’s all good.
as for rafi’s voice in the 70s: sure his “absolute peak” was 60-65 but overall his voice was at its peak until 1972. after that as you get closer to his untimely death you find inconsistency. i still have a lot of listening to do so i can’t give many examples. additionally, because mohammed rafi set the bar so high in his prime for voice quality, i have ridiculously high standards for him. what complicates matters is that rafi’s magic is multifaceted. it isn’t just the voice quality alone but also the expression of emotions that melt my heart. he expresses emotions in a song so well that upon listening i react and relate to his singing and realize that the same emotion is in me, my thoughts, life experiences etc. but i didn’t even realize because i did not have the majestic touch of mohammed rafi to bring it out like he does. i guess that’s not just the magic of mohammed rafi but on a general scale something the great man stood for: music. that’s why we love music. the exercise you proposed to me about rafi’s voice is very interesting and i will take up on it some day when i’m better able to. for now it’s very tough.
what makes it even tougher is that IMO rafi’s silken voice was more sensitive to the quality of recording. people say machines were better after 1970 but i’m not fully satisfied with their quality (i am however an audiophile). we’ve heard instances where hmv has done a poor job of storing recordings. dvd transfers or cds are not optimally mastered. someone like kishore is affected by these things to but his thundering voice beats the hell out of audio distortions. mp3 format while good still bottlenecks the quality of music we could enjoy from greats like rafi, kishore, lata, etc.
One last thing I forgot to mention. I can’t conclude that Rajesh Khanna had any direct negativity with Rafi. Again, sort of like RD Burman (but not exactly), it’s just that Rajesh Khanna loved Kishore Kumar very much (as he should have!). Rajesh Khanna rightfully attributed his success to Kishore Kumar so if he insisted on KK it makes sense. Especially in 1976 Mehbooba after the popularity of Sholay and the rise of violence and Amitabh Bachchan beginning to sideline him. He needed to take his safest bets and having Kishore by his side during those times made sense. It’s possible that in his youth and blinding success Rajesh Khanna could be a bit immature e.g. holding a party at the Taj Mahal to celebrate Dilip Kumar’s flop film in 1972 – but these are things to be forgiven overlooked as being young and foolish. I commend Rajesh Khanna’s rightful loyalty to Kishore. We’ve seen this with Rafi actors too and it’s beautiful.
At the same time, it is a testament to Mohammed Rafi’s awesomeness how he has 20+ songs with Rajesh Khanna (high percentage of them being extremely good – who but Rafi could have sang “Yeh Jo Chilman Hai” so *lovingly*?). Even an actor defined by an another singer during the peak of changing tastes (of the casual masses) against Rafi could not hold back from Rafi’s inevitable, golden touch.
1002 ravi,
this is a fascinating topic. kishore kumar set rajesh khanna apart from the other actors and was 99% responsible for rajesh khanna’s success. he defined the actor as “the first” superstar. was rajesh khanna really superior to dilip kumar or shammi kapoor? of course not. however, rafi had been the voice of everyone and everyone’s dad for a very long time. the masses don’t like to hear the same voice again and again. it’s human nature. at some point they want change. kishore kumar provided that change, that “new” golden voice, and that new style of singing. rajesh khanna got to be the new face of it all. rajesh khanna’s very mechanism of success & distinction *in the early 70s* was using a voice other than rafi! of course rafi couldn’t bring the same effect for rajesh *at that time*. you may acknowledge that a great fraction of rafi songs on rajesh khanna are evergreen to this day and popular. that’s because people today unlike those of the early 70s aren’t just coming off from a period of an ‘overwhelming rafi presence”. hope you understand my point.
as for zindagi ek safar hai suhana – you’re avoiding the obvious. it’s not remembered as a rafi song because he only sang a few lines! for the same reasons, very few people know that kishore sang a second version of that song in the movie. it’s not remembered because it’s only a few lines!
on the subject of anil biswas & rafi, i wouldn’t say that rafi was monotonous. in fact, his awesome versatility did quite the opposite and allowed him to keep up with changing trends for 4 different decades and dozens of genres and sub-genres within a single genre! it’s just that every song rafi sang had qualities unique and identical only to rafi. there are some things that he (or any other singer for tha matter) could not change in his songs no matter what (hence you’re able to tell who the singer is regardless of the variety!). it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that at some point people would want a brief change from those intrinsic qualities of a particular singer. anway, it’s always fun to hear differing opinions.
Post 1002 : Mr. Ravi. Many thanks for posting your last post and declaring it too.
I found your analysis al wrong, most of them. you have take only a few facts and twisted it square – to prove your viewpoint. a whole lot of music lovers and people in the know would disagree with you.
you have quoted anil biswas. he was a chameleon of a music composer without a strong back bone. he was challenged for his known views about rafi many a times and each time he used to back track and eat his words or blame the press for twisting his statements.
Once this composer said : rafi cannot sing my compositions. what compositions he made which naushad, s.j., sham sunder, firoz nizami, op nayyar and many distinguished composers did not make?
anil biswas is a fake composer, he is in music due to accident and now very aptly he is forgotten. please do not quote him in this forum.
by the way, for your info: biswas son ran to rafi saaheb for a song recording at the first available opportunity. more we want to hear nothing about parochial elements in this honourable forum.
thanks for posting your last post.
binu nair….mumbai…
To arghyaji, murthy ji and Mr. Unknown…
You all are forgetting one thing.. if rafi could give 100% hit with Rajesh Khanna,as you claim, why could not he become the voice of rajesh for that matter? Even after Aradhana, Rafi was given ample chance to be Rajesh Khanna’s voice in movies like Aan milo sajna, Sacha Jhutha, Hathi Mere sathi, The Train, Mehboob ki Mehendi, Humshakal etc. where both rafi and kishore sang for rajesh in different numbers!! Why rafi could not outclass kishore in those movies?? Why kishore’s numbers were more popular? “Zindagi Ek Safar” was sung both by rafi and kishore!! rafi had an excellent chance to outclass kishore with that song(it was 1971 and kishore wave was slowly picking up), but he failed and till today apart from die-hard rafi fans, all remember this as a kishore song!!!
So, the point which arghyaji and murthyji are discussing lead to an entirely different conclusion which you people don’t see!! IT IS THE CHANGE OF AUDIENCE TASTE!! Do you know Anil biswas had warned Rafi somewhere in 1966 saying his voice was slowly getting monotonous and he was singing in same style for all the heroes!! THAT IS THE POINT!!! With the advent of superstardom, it was necessary for singers to bring variety in their voice in terms of the actor on the screen!! Rafi with all his technicalities and classical training, could not do that!!
But, a great fighter as he always was, Rafi learnt his mistake and came back!! If you listen “kya hua tera wada”-his comeback song, you will find an ENFORCED MASCULINITY in the voice of Rafi much different from the slikiness which he used to bring in 60s and with this, now, from 1977 onwards, people again started loving him!! And from 77-80, he sang almost same as Kishore, and thanks to Kishore’s conflict with Congress and Indira gandhi that time, Rafi actually could record more than Kishore in 1980- the year he passed away!!!So, I should say, rafi could not read the market taste properly in early 70s, otherwise he got ample opportunities evven after Aradhana, to beat Kishore..
Lastly, meaning indirectly that Kishore could deliver hits only with superstars is a crap! Firstly, kishore used to make stars not the other way round.. Songs like “Yeh Jeevan hai”(Lata’s favourite), “Dil aesa kiine”(Filmfare award winning), “Teri duniya se hoke majboor chala”, “Mera jeevan kora kagaz”,” Samjhauta Ghamon se kar lo”,”Ruk jana nahi tu kahi haar ke” and so on were immensely hit in that period, which Kishore delivered without any superstar..
Rafisaab was the greatest of all, but to prove his gretness, we should not degrade others!! this is my last post in this forum,as a person, I am a fan of manna Dey-neither Rafi nor Kishore, as i think manna was the best singer of that time but could not get ample opportunities and got stereotyped..
Thanks All.
Post No. 999. I agree with Mr. Unknown. Rafi’s songs became hits whether the actor was a well known hero or an unknown actor, whether the movie was a hit or a flop, where as other Singer’s songs became hits only when the actor was a well known actor and when the movies became hits.
I also agree with Cherianji that during this period most of the hit duets were of Rafi like Haath Ki Safai, Abhimaan, Zanjeer, Chor Machaye Shor, Yadon Ki Baarat, etc.