Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?
This article is written by Mr.H.V.Guru Murthy.
A regular browser to web site mohdrafi.com, having gone through the letters of Rafi lovers would assume that R D Burman did not utilize Rafi properly, instead he preferred Kishore Kumar. Because of this reason, Rafi Fans are still upset with RDB even though he passed away a decade back.
Yes, it is true that RDB preferred KK over Rafi during early seventies. For that matter, which Music Director or Actor or Producer or Director will not have his preference. It was well known that Raj Kapoor always preferred Mukesh, Manoj Kumar preferred Mukesh or Mahendra Kapoor, B.R.Chopra films had Mahendra, MD Ravi also had plenty of songs with Mahendra so also O.P after he broke with Rafi. Similarly OP always had either Asha or Geetha Dutt and never Lata. Salil also used all other Singers. Director Subba Rao insisted on Mukesh for SAATHI even though the hero was Rajendra Kumar and MD Naushad, two Rafi Fans. Even Kalyanji Anandji had many films with Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and KK even though Rafi was instrumental in their raise through JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE, AAMNE SAAMNE, etc. LP, by all means Rafi Bhakts, used KK regularly in the early seventies even for Rafi heroes like Jeetendra, Dharmendra, etc. SJ also switched over to KK in movies like MAIN SUNDAR HOON, DIL DAULAT DUNIYA, KAL AAJ AUR KAL, etc. Of course, the music standard came down a notch or two in that period. But, well, it is their prerogative to have whomsoever they wanted though I am sure in heart of heart, why even openly, they would have admitted the superiority of Rafi over all other Singers. Similarly, RDB also used KK for almost all his movies in the early seventies as perhaps he had some special chemistry with him.
However, let us not forget that RDB used Rafi extensively during late sixties as his main playback singer right from the first movie. He gave hit music with Rafi in TEESRI MANZIL, NAQLI NAWAAB, CARAVAN, PYAAR KA MAUSAM, THE TRAIN, ABHILASHA, ADHIKAR, RATON KA RAAJA, etc. Later during late seventies he returned to Rafi and gave hits like SHAAN, HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, ABDULLAH, ZAMANE KO DIKHANA HAI, etc. In between, he had Rafi in CHANDI SONA qawali with Mannadey (Ek Shok Hasina Se), YADON KI BAARAT (Title song and who can forget the duet with Asha Chura Liya Hai Tumne), DIL KA BAADSHAH (this Raj Kumar starrer had all songs by Rafi), THE GREAT GAMBLER (Raftasa Mera Naam), SHEHZADA (Solo Tere Attaroo and duet with Lata Kaahe Ko Bulaya), etc.
If a person cannot appreciate the greatness of Rafi, then it can be safely concluded that the person does not have a sense of music. Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc. RD would have definitely known the great qualities of Rafi, the Singer. Just because he did not use Rafi extensively as one would expect, let us not degrade this MD who gave us some good songs in CHANDAN KA PALNA, PADOSAN, HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA, MERE JEEVAN SAATHI, AJNABEE, AMAR PREM, SANAM TERI KASAM, BHOOT BANGLA, BAHARON KE SAPNE (Rafi solo Zamane Ne Maare), PARICHAY, KINAARA, APNA DESH, ZAHREELA INSAAN, RAMPUR KA LAKSHAMAN (Pyaar Ka Samay with Lata, KK and Rafi), 1942 – A LOVE STORY, KATI PATANG to certain extent, etc. though he gave some very mediocre music in films like DEEWAR, SHOLAY, KITAAB, ZAKHMEE, RAFOO CHAKKAR, NAMKEEN, DHARAM KARAM and BIWI O BIWI (so un-RK film like), etc. so many forgettable movies as for as music was concerned.
The irony of RDB was either he gave good music or petered out to a very mediocre music in so many films. I read some where that Shashi Kapoor called RD as National Anthem Music Director. In those days, theatres used to play National Anthem at the end of the movie and the Hall doors used to be shut till the completion of the Anthem. As soon as the Anthem used to commence, our in-disciplined people used to rush to the Hall Door and wait for the door opening. Similarly, whenever RDB songs commenced in most of the movies, people used to rush to toilet.
Still, it is not fair that we use harsh and sometimes, un-parliamentary language against any body if they differ with our views. We cannot forget the contribution of all these MDs, Heroes, Singers, Directors, etc. in making the Indian Film Music so rich.
well, said Unknown,,,,,1297,1298,,,,but I want to raise a point ,,that there is someone who made even Mohmmad rafiji,,,,I think its God himself,,,,,,Divine saraswati maa made rafi sahab with special care of her,,gifting with divinity of God`s truthfull voice…..
Dear Mr/Ms Unknown,
When I heard the news about Rafisaab’s passing away (on the radio), I said with tears in my eyes “this is it, there will not be another Rafisaab”. I was six years old when I went to watch “Madhumati” with my parents. First time I heard Tute hue khwabo ne…, I was very impressed. Till today I feel the impact which will never go away. At that age, I did not even know who was singing or where the sound was coming from. I learned later on that Rafisaab had a smile on his face while singing this song in recording studio (I think this was one of the best songs of Salilda). Mr. Binu Nair, If you know about this please share with us.
NO ONE SAY THAT rd bURMAN MADE BY kk BUT rd bURMAN MADE kk BUT ABOUT mOHD rAFI NO ONE SAID THAT HE MADE mOHD rAFI ,iF YOU WANT TO SAY THAT nAUSHAND mADE m rAFI THE ANSWER IS THAT nAUSHAND SAID m rAFI IS 50% OF HIS MUSIC AND op nAYAR SAID iF THERE WAS NO M RAFI there be no opn
I dont know about music but i dont think there be singer after Mohd Rafi as said by many who know about music
Ahsa ji made by o p nayar and kk made by rd burman but op nayar and rd burman they made by m rafi
Raj,,,kishore fans don`t say such nice words about Kishore only because kishore don`t have either personality or musical excillence equivalent To rafi ji!!!everyone knows it,,,for u all Kisore is a comedian,,,and a film singer,,
but for us Rafi ji,,,,,is example of kindness and modesty in practice,,,such a simple n sweet person hardly get birth on this materialistic world,,and singing of Rafiji is beyond ur film cut throat business,,,he has exceded the level of entertainment and has reach very highly admirable position both by his life n singing,,and his voice has the fabric of divinity and his singing is multidimensional like sky!!!
Many times it appeared on this site or that of kishore`s,,that Kishore somewhat adored Rafiji,,for Rafiji`s persona n singing greatness,,,,learn atleast something from guru,,,,,be a good student,,not a parrot who repeats but don`t understand,,guru`s lecture!!!!
Mr Raj ji,with all respect,thanx for adressing me but,,,,,,,,u caught my words but theme is missing,,,,,u missed the word,my,that means a personal approch of looking at thing,Rafi sahab is My God,,,,,,n Nair sir,whom I revere as my God`s massenger,n I futher told listening rafi song is my ibadat,,,,,u should have also read what Nair sir replied me then,,how egoless he is,,,he couldn`t understand my word as he really feels that his work is nothing front of rafi sahab`s mighty personality,,,,,but see u urself inderectly stating urself as ur guru`s msnger,,difference is clear with presence of ego on either side,,u all,,,keep on placing ur words on general platform like a forcefull attempt to let everyone follow urs egoistic words,,its egositic as many kishore fans only try prove many singers r better than Rafi sahab, ,,,that what u all think of Kishore kum,u wanna everyone to feel the same,,,if its not ego then whyso???,,,,,I never want u to feel same for rafi sahab,,,,`coz I know hardly few can understand person like Rafi sahab,,,but u all,,,,try to force ur taste or ego over everyone,,,from where did u get the idea of 1 or 2,,,,,why u all r so firmly affixed with number games,its among fickle rats who keep on racing among themselves to be sometimes at 1st sometimes 2nd,,but Fine art of human is beyond these rat race,especially when rafi sab with his voie n personality reaches the level of divinty,,such talks become meaningless that who is best in bollywood,the most lovable Place that Rafi sahab have with Indian music,,,can never be replaced,,n also can`t be expressed,,,,,
kishore fans,,use words like jai guru,,sorry,,mahaguru,,(even here,,guru is personal but mahaguru is meant to all,,,how can u all proclaim something as universal)guru is someone from whom we learn something,,,,,,,,,,life story of Kishore kum,,like his seriousness towrds work n life,,his multi marriage story,,,his bad terms with almost everyone including amitabh bachhan,,hrisi da ,later rd burman,mithun chakra burty,,,etc,,,expect few like Rafi sahab, and his ultra materialistic approch towrds something called divine gift as music,,,is not hidden from everyone,,if these r the stuffs u wanna learn in these life,,,,,,may ur Guru help u in this endevour of urs,,,,,,,
P.s,,,,the word kishore fan or u,that I used is not meant to mr raj or every fan of kishore kum in particular,but to few who know the art of critisizing others esp Rafi sahab,,,I replied it to raj ji as he came here as representative but not a bit its personal remarks………….
Jawaid Naseem Sahab, bohat khoob. Aapka kalam waakai mein lajawab hai. I particularly liked the two ‘sher’ on Rafi Sahab given at the end of your post no. 1292. What a great poetry to describe a legend.
Rafi had universal appeal. He was used by all the composers, big or small alike. Kishore Kumar for most part was second and third choice during the fifties and the sixties, the golden period of the Hindi Film Music. I would rate Manna Dey right after Rafi as far as singing is concerned. No doubt KK was vey famous in the early 70’s, but that does not make him a better singer than Rafi or Manna Dey. There was a time (1-2 years) when Ataullha Khan was the most sought after ghazal singer. But that did not make him better than Ghulam Ali, Mehndi Hassan or Jagjit Singh. No doubt Kishore has sung some absolute gems, but then so have Mukesh, Manna Dey and Mahender Kapoor. Their best work is equally good.
It is futile to even think of comparing any singer with Mohammad Rafi. There was nothing that he could not sing. Kishore Kumar has sung mostly limited range songs that did not require any extra effort on the part of the singer. He had a good throw in his voice that suited some songs very well. I think he was phenomenal in some songs from the fifties and the sixties, but in no way close to Rafi.
thanks for your words,I am not a poet but these are the feelings of mine that converts into some ’sher’.
mere jazbon ki zabaan jab samajh na paey koi
ek na ek sher ki soorat mein woh dhal jaate hain
aur
mere jazbon ki sadaaqat ka imtehaan na le
hum hain insaan nahi mausam jo badal jaate hain
rafi saheb ke liye mere jazbe hi meri unse muhabbat aur sadaaqat ka bayaan hain, apne tamaam rafians ki nazar rafi saheb ki shan mein arz karta hoon
uska kirdaar hai shaffaaf aaine ki tarah,
jo bhi dekhe ga usay khud mein sanwar jaega…
uska chehra bhi dil aawez hai sooraj ki tarah,
jis taraf dekhle woh noor bikher jaega
jawaid naseem
jawaid77in@yahoo.com
Post 1281 :
mr. Shukla :U have a great skills in twisting facts of music history to arrive at illogical conclusions .
this is bound to happen when there is a dearth of quality material to write about – about ur favourite singer.
u also do not have decency. u come to a mohd rafi lovers site and write that ki-shor was good in few songs so he is better or on the same level of ki-shor.
ur ears drums are suited to hear yoodling sounds and hoarse voice that carry questionable ” melody “. do u know that when your favourite singer failed to record some songs due to the “competency factor”, the melody king mohd rafi was summoned to deliver the songs – which he did in a flash – and left the recording studios pleasing everyone. please do read the history of recording of the rafi number in prakash mehra’s movie : ” muquaddar ka sikander “.
ur comments shows ur taste and preferences which are similar to those who sits in the first rows in a film show.
finallly u are a great “nuisance value” on this site and very soon u would “expose” kishore kumar truly and fully – in these pages and vanish away just like some of your predecessors have done in the past.
binu nair….mumbai.
Savita garcia ji,
Very well said. In your words, rafi is god and binu nair ji is his messenger. Great, but only one messenger. For kishore, there are many messengers. We can also say as kishore lovers – Jai mahaguru kishore bhagwan ki jai, but we do not say that.
Because – try to note first when , where and to whom the term bhagawan is used.
no need to compare rafi to kishore. just yodelling is not singing it is covering the entire range with clarity and ease which only rafi had done i am also a fan of kishore but to compare rafi to kishore is a complete nonsence no doubt kishore was a good singer (to a certain range of songs) not a full range of song music directors first choice would be rafi & only rafi for such songs. what happened to that song in Hathi mere saathi “nafrat ki duniyaa ko chood kar” when kishore couldnt sing that because of range he himself suggested this song only rafi could sing —- Rafi was a light house daily thousands of waves crash to meet their anjaam
Dear KK fans
I don’t like to answer because already you know the answer jest I want ask you if you got the answer.Shammi Kapoor never used KK but Rajesh Khanna used Mohd Rafi for more than 20 songs and all songs super hit?yes Shammi Ji used KK once but afther 1980.Naushed only used KK once and RD Burman used Mohd Rafi more than any other singer from 1977 to 1980 een more than KK?
we Mohd Rafi fan never say that Mohd Rafi is the best singer because no need to say that people like Mannay Day said that Mohd Rafi is from 1 to 10.
Anil Biswas not like MOhd Rafi but you KK fans forget that Anil Ji like Talat Ji and Talat Ji himself Mohd Rafi fan and he said about Mohd Rafi voice that Mohd Rafi voice is gift of God but Mohd Rafi made it gift to God
reply to post no. 1281 and kishore fan
First of all, Shukla de, please keep criticising, because it is the criticism that people like you( who have a biased view, biased thinking, biased life,), raise, that keeps this site so enthralling
You may not have anything else to do in life, but we Rafi lovers welcome your criticism as the moderator of this site needs all these arguments to keep the site ‘interesting’
I hope you have the sense to see the sarcasm in my statements.
And Kishore fan — are you so ashamed of your name which your parents bestowed on you that you cant name yourself on this site !!!
That throws a lot of light on your perverted character
Please take these statements as a personal compliment from me, Saifullah. I am proud of my name, and proud of being a Rafian.
And please dont waste your time replying to me, as you are not going to elicit any replies from me,
Both of you are not worth any more replies
Please go and take a walk, my dear friends
Thanks and take care of your perverted minds, for they will be of use to you in some other forum of life, not here !!!!!!
Saifullah
Dubai
When rafi saab was in peak no singer had been called for
since rafi saab was not suitable for that song.when kk was
in peak(is it so?)rafi saab was called for singing high pitch
songs.for example “nafrat ki duniya ko chodke” from film
Haathi mere saathi.even rd burman was not sure about
kk’s ability to sing songs for “hum kisee se kum nahin” so
was lp for “amar akbar antoney”.rafi saab worked under all
the mds during his period.
it is madness to compare rafi saab with kk.kk can reach only
up to 25% of rafi saab.if kk is good for everything why rafi
saab’s voice had been used for kk especially “man mora
bhavraa”.i heard kk singing rafi saab song “man re tu kaah na.”
the difference is the difference between honey and water.
as one rafian told if hear five songs of kk continously,we wii
get head-ache.
Post 1281: Joke of the month July – Kishore had more range/notes than Rafi Saheb.
Even a child will not agree.
spelling mistake,,,,,I absentmindly wrote,,,,,,hell,,,,,instead of hail,,,,,plz read that as hail,,,,,sory,,,its hail
I meant to say,Shukla de n other critics to keep on living in well,as u have got so much adamant not to understand us,or the ocean of rafiji`s personality or divinity of his singing,,,,,and r here to critisize us,,,,,ur condemning words never going to change our Love to Rafi ji,,,,n it appears u come to rafi site with cotton in ear n dust in ur eye,,as u can`t understand Rafi as well,,,,so y not u enjoy ur life,,,,,atleast be something productive with ur choice other than critisizing others,,,,,,so hail ur choice,,,,,,,n also hail ur own understanding,,,,,but world is something more than that,,,know it for sure,,,,,Rafi lovers also don`t live with just playback business of filmindustry,or cheap entertainment,as our Rafi sahab never given importance materialistic apporch of doing such business,,,,for him singing was divotion,he never admited his singing ability as his own anyday,,everytime,,,(anyone can check record),if anyone praised rafiji,,he told, “its God`s work not mine,,,”,but what about others,,everyone spend whole life praising themselves and also demand uncountable money for the art that God has given us as a blessing or gift,,,,,Rafi sahab used to say,,”my fee is My listeners happiness and their contentment”,,,,,,,,,,,,,so,we Rafi lovers,,, with the help of this kindest personality`s dedication and divotion ,,we are rather advancing with the rising wave of Mohd Rafi`s divine voice,,,,to reach the divinity itself,,,,,,as Rafiji told in one of his song that came after his death,,,,,,,,””ksi aasman pe to sahil milega ,main laane wahi aasman jaa raha hoon””””,,,,,,,,,,,,amin!
kishore fan and shukla ji,
you keep using phrases like “kishore outshined rafi” or “kishore is the best in yodelling” and “kishore is the greatest” . It would be nice if you used actually analyse it with “musical terms” rather than with mere “superlative and comparative terms”. Thank you.
And please explain in detail the rafi vs kishore yodelling bit rather than just “rafis yodelling is nowhere in front of kishore”
Mr de post 1281.No matter if u address TofiqueJi,H.p ji,Or Nairji,,,,but whatever u write here is adressed to all who either admire or adore Rafiji,,,,
Ur brother kishore fan,,,used a word,,,finished off,,and u r using,,,words like outshined singer and disgusting word like “”nothing”” for rafiji,,,,,u fanatics are just insulting Greatest mohd rafi sahab,,in a site thats reffered as a shrine to rafi lovers….
If u think Kishore da is outstanding than be nice with ur thoughts even more as true faith in anyone whosoever leads to one goal of divinity,
but its a evil dare by u to say,,””””rafi is nothing before kishore`s””””….
Common sir,,if rafi would be nothing before ur kishore in yodelling(that u think is a certificate of singing) and in many other songs that u mentioned,,,,then tell us what r we all doing here,,just to talk on nothingness of Someone whom we concder voice of God,,,
if u think u r ryt then be in hell with ur mentioned song n keep on yodeling like a mad whole life,,a parrot also say ram ram whole day,,,divine person Like kabir,Rahim,Chaitanyadeva,Ramakrishna,Meera etc, also says ram rama sometimes,,,,but elongession and shrillness of Parrots utterence don`t make parrot a better singer or person ,,as there is nothing left for us to explain persons like u that what infact a real art is……and word like great that u all use is saracastic remarks n nothing else as ur only intention is to comparitivly proving Rafi outshined by kishore…..
U misinterpreted mr nair`s words,,its the legacy of rafi lovers to love all as rafiji was embodiment of modesty and kindness so we respect all,,,including kishore kum,,,,,but,,but comparitive degrating statement is never meant by anyone`s paraise,,,,,!
Mr. toufique – 1259
I have heard those songs where rafi is yodelling. But that one or two notes yodelling by rafi is nothing before kishore’s long notes yodelling. Moreso, as I said kishore’s yodelling is better than rafi. Rafi is a great singer but I do not think kishore is a inferior singer. Had be been inferior he would not have outshined rafi in latter years. Salamat rahe dostana hamara or yaddon ki barat, kishore outshines rafi. Even in 60’s i.m.o, jewel thief etc. songs kishore is attractive.
H.P. – 1275
Shanker-jai kishan downfall was not due to kishore, but due to differences between both of them (shanker & jai kishan) Moreover, shankar jai kishan combination was not of much importance in 70’s for kishore kumar, most of the other composers of the era tilted towards kishore, it is well known.
Kishore fan, thanks for your write up.
Mr. Binu Nair – As you say, kishore sang some very good songs, it is true. That is what I was saying, in his songs, he outshines other hindi singers.
mohd rafi rules :
===========
on his punyathithi on July 31st, rafi fans would come from far and wide : from many parts of the country – to pay homage to the saintly singer at Juhu mosque in mumbai with flowers.
all over the world music loving people will hold concerts and listen to rafi songs – live and otherwise.
in mumbai alone there are 22 large scale music events taking place during the week.
the rafi foundation has sent a petition to the central govt to honour mohd rafi with the bharat ratna award. the bandra s.v.road rafi chowk would also be shaped up this year.
binu nair
Ref. post 1256
Dear Mr. Shukla,
For your info. yodeling is introduced by Rafi Sahab & not by Kishorda. Here, I just cut & paste the lines of Wikipedia for your ready reference. Better you go through complete article.
“In Bollywood, yodeling is generally associated with Kishore Kumar but Rafi introduced yodeling in Indian film as playback singing.Rafi yodeled in some of old songs, such as “Hello sweety seventeen” (duet with Asha Bhosle), “O Chale ho kaha”, “Dilke Aine main”, and “Unse Rippy Tippy Ho gayee” (duet with Geeta Dutt).”
Kindly listen Rafi sahab yoodled songs and see how he poured “MELODY” even in yodeling.
Imtiyaz A. Sharif
it is easy to make yodelling and even a small child can do it.
but it is difficult to sing a high pitch song.in the film amar akbar
antoney in the song “pardha hei pardha”,kk is singing “akbar
teraa naam nahee hai” for amitabh bachan.kk’s sound is
only in the film not in the recorded version.we can see kk is
just crying in the high pitch.it is easy to do yoodling but only
for trained and god gifted great singers like rafi saab can
sing high pitch songs.
ref post 1270, kishore fan,
i am not indirectly agreing but directly agreing that kishore kumar has broken all the rules of music by producing rattling noice by yodelling.
there is ‘ hell ‘ & ‘ heaven ‘ difference between ‘ noice ‘ & ‘ music ‘.he knew there are lot many people who prefer ‘ rattling noice ‘ more than melodious music.
he adopted this style as similar to that of our politicians mending themselves at the time of elections. they beg & latter they rule, since they know we are all ‘ fanatics ‘. we have no sence of reasoning, understanding. we are obstinate.
therefore wise people always say ‘ bhains ke samne been bajanese koi phayda nahin hai ‘ & and they also say ‘ gadha kya jane adrak ka swad ‘
Post 1269 and 1270: Nothing special in yodelling. Sudesh Bhosle is better in yodelling than Kishore Kumar. So, nothing great. You have nothing to write in KK’s site.
Kishorefan,
Shankar-Jaikishan was music director for zindagi ek safar (not RDB). This song had more shor bakor than real melody. You did not notice the downfall of the greatest shankar-jaikishan during this time. If they (it was jaikishan) thaught yodelling as great asset why did they wait 10+ years after Jhoomru? R D Burman (along with Mehmood) made irretional choice and they really paid price. The greatest solos and duet composed by kalyanji anandji were by rafisaab. The same music directors created bakwas like khaike paan banaras wala. Popularity of this song was purely due to biased radio publicity with the help of biased people like AMIN SAYANI. If you did not compare rafisaab with kishore, i would not bring up these issues. When you think yodelling as sophisticated singing asset, it says something about you musical test. Like I mentioned earlier, a friend of mine (happen to be very strong fan of rafisaab) could sing these songs you are thinking about including chala jaataa hoo from merejivan saathi without any difficulty (effortlessly). Vinod rathod, copy cat of kk, mentiond in shekhar suman show that he is rafisaab’s fan. Don’t ask why he is not singing in rafisaab’s style.
There is no comparison of rafisaab.
post 1254,,,Mr nair,,Thanx a lot for addressing me while using such nice words for the massiha of love,Md rafi,,,although,I don`t think suggestion is a nice word, I would like to request u or rather moderator to have a special section on tributing Rafi ji,as we know so little about this saintly man with divine voice,,a section,where all those who have special memories related to rafiji will come and share,especially his associates,like one of them Nadkarni ji,,whose experience for rafiji I luckily could read but many who don`t follow this site regularly can not,,n very few read biography,,,,little sharing of experience by those who met rafiji,,,and also events and words of the legends who have worked with him,, worth a priceless gift to fans to know their Angel,,,,,as meaningless discussions like thats going on with Kishore fans these days dilutes the effect of adoration that a rafi bhakts proudly cherish for rafiji…
lets stress a bit on 70s,,,I feel quite uncomfortable with such debate as from my childhood I`m witnessing this kind of stupid discussion as in my city kolkata film Music used to be taken very seriously of Kishore rafi era,,,,,yet,,something very irrelevent that I read in post of Kishorefan 1269,kishorefan stating Movie andaz n Rajesh khanna,,,,,I couldnot stop my self replying,,Kishorefanji,,words that u used,such as finshed off for rafi ji,,, like of such words can be heard unfotunately, every corner of street of my native land by the person who has no understanding of Hindi music,,but there r more who really Love music,,,, adore Mohd rafiji,once I show live performance of Mohd rafi in kolkata(in 70s),and crowd were shouting a loud for md rafi ji to sing mere sapno ki rani,,as everyone had daubt that rafi could have sung that song better than Kishore kumar,but he rather sang live “gulabi aankhe of Rajesh khanna movie”” people of Kolkata gone mad that day,n,,I`m eyewitness of Bengals bengalis love for rafi even in 70s thats apparently missing from late 80s to till date,,,all over India there r so many tribute to rafi sahab on his coming Punya titthi,hardly any there in eye of those who concider them ultra mordern,,,,,,but its really misunderstanding,,rafiji also possessed most mordern and western voice,,uncountable r the songs where Rafi exprimented with western tune succesfully including these so called yodelling,his variety is dream for other singers,,why r so conflict today,I don`t know what happened in between after both legends gave mortal pause to their voice,,,,, if u count Andaz,,,the song Zindagi ek safar,,was not rendered by Rafiji,,,even by just one line he created a magical aura thats immposible for any other singer,,,,and the same movie,,,Rafi sammikapoor Duo gave,,one song thats called,,””re mamma re ” its all time hit song for kids,,,what a masterpiece singing,,,,,,and one more song,,of the movie is ,,a most melodious duet by rafiji,,,all credit goes to rafi ji for the song,,,Dil usey do jaan usey do,,,as rafi ji gives such a melodious start to this number that it was sure to be all time hit,,,,,,,,,,,i think today people listen more to dil use do than to zindagi ek safar even kishore favoured music channel,,,,
And Don`t forget that u r making fun of urself by excluding Rafi`s name from rajesh khanna success,,,,could Kahnna could be what he was without his songs like,Akele hain chale aao,,ye raat hai pyasi pyasi,,gunguna rahe bhawre,,,,yun hi tum mujhse baat kadti ho,,,,dil ne dilko pukara,,,,Gulabi aankhe,,,,etc,,,
is there any kishore and khanna song,,that is greater hit than Rafi`s rendered for the same,,,Ye reshmi julfe,,ye sarbati aankhey!!!!
Murthy Saab..It is a fact – there are few singer like Mhd.Rafi Saheb. He was an extremely humble & soft person. A delight to listen to day & night. I remember having seen a show in Toronto – not long ago – late Singer Mahendra Kapoor Saheb spoke so fondly of Rafi Saab. He always had respect for the singer like a son for a father. It was a delight to see singers of that era, sp. humans like Mahendra Saheb who even after making his own place in the music Industry never left an opertunity to praise his guru…long live both their devine voices…Mashaallah
Dear Kishorefan
KK did not invent yodelling. Listen to original cowboys. During 70’s the quality of singing and music fell and kept falling as KK progressed further. I have mentioned before that my college time friend used to yodel as good as original joomru. He was not a kishore fan. listen to western yodelling and also atrtists like Roy Orbison. They are 100 times better than you know who…..I have nothing against KK. I am rafisaab’s fan from my very early age.
Sabnavees saab – post 1261
You say yodelling cannot be reproduced on musical instruments. Then you indirectly accept that kishore’s talent extended to a version which composers could not show even on musical instruments. Is that not great.
Shukla de saab,
Chodo saab, jab aadmi log nahi sunte hai to, jane do. Many excuses prop up (yodelling cannot be music) if you say that something which was done by kishore, is not possible for rafi (like yodelling in your post). In fact, i infer from your post that you meant that rafi too was capable of yodelling, but not that sophisticated & attractive as kishore. Pancham da knew the talent of kishore and accordingly, he was successful in projecting kishore as a successful singer successfully in a successful way. The song zindagi ek safar hai suhana on rajesh khanna and hemamalini, finished off the shammi kapoor/rafi combination/era and established rajeshkhanna/kishore kumar combination/era.
Only as pure kishore lover, I do not know whether ghantasala did yodelling, as I have not heard him doing that but i do not think, it is difficult for him, given his great specialised talent.
Leave yodellling aspect, what people have to say about 70’s ?
Two comments I replied a couple of days back It was written by someone named Anil,,,I out of irritation called such a post as spam(that may be wrong on my part but whats the meaning of writing something truly out of context in years old article that too meant to prove Rafi sahab a downhill singer).Strange,,, even this person with different name Shukla de,,,appear to have written almost same stuffs of stating rafi sahab a easy singer with the word great as preffix!Strange,,first this kind of persons say they feel rafi great,,and a moment later try to state that his greatness is nothing in front of kishore kumar,,,and if this kinda person fail to prove supremacy of Kumar over here,,states the name of other legendry singers,,from all over the world,,,,including lataji and sister,Ghantashalaji,,etc,,,,they r not concerned of anyone of them other than their envy mind but have only one objective in their mind to create hate for Rafi if for this intention they for may use one or two nice flowery words rafi sahab as well, but sick intention can be felt by reading their complete write up!Never ever Try to compare Rafi sahab with anyone!!!
P.s http://www.mohdrafi.com/meri-awaaz-suno/rafis-lean-phase-beginning-and-end.html?cp=7 ,Mr de,,,, ,,enough ! and more than enough has been done to create rumour of lean phase of Rafi Sahab in 70s era till today,that even Kishore Kumar deny,,,,the rumour had been so much that today on youtube we see many of melodies that been sung by Rafi sahab is commented by not all but many kishore fans saying as what a voice kishore kumar has,they even don`t know the voice of Kishore kumar n comments on Rafi sahab feeling its Kishore da! ,,,,,,,,U kishore fans,,or rather Fanatics,,, r trying ur best to defame Kishore kumar by showing such a poor display of ur inspiration from the Legend,,but know it for sure,,Kishore kumar(da) hold a very special and lovable place with Rafi fans or rather rafi lovers,,as Kishore kumar respected and loved rafi sahab so much,,,,Language of Love is not meant to sick of jealusy….persons like u can`t understand even a bit that how much we admire Kishore kumar and how much kishore kumar adored rafi sahab!!!!
I have a personal feeling that Kishore could not raise his voice high like Rafi, Manna or Mahendra did. Like, Mukesh, Hemant, Talat, KK was not comfortable while singing at very high pitch. And the genius that he was, he commenced yodelling at high pitches and perfected the art. Of course, Rafi also has done this yodelling in so many songs but unlike KK, he never had to depend on yodelling to show his prowess.
Shukla de ji,
Thanks for your post appreciating the great rafiji (and shri ghantasala too) Yodelling, in my view, is not recognised as pure music. It is only a humorous gimmick for attraction for some and nothing else. Coming back to your question; the genres, styles and repertoires (including yodelling) which rafiji rendered have not been rendered by kishore ( or other singers in hindi) so in my view, kishore cannot be placed even nearer to the unique rafiji. In my view, the same rule applies for kishore in comparison with shri ghantasala, in toto. Both rafi and shri ghantasala are miles ahead of kishore as singers. Summing up, rafiji continues to stand as the shining jewel & benchmark in hindi playback singing.
Shukla de, – 1256
I think you have got sufficient replies from music lovers here, and by this time you might have understood what music is from these music lovers. Yodelling is not a part of true music, and great playback singers practised true music. Kishore is good in certain way, but still when overall talents are taken into account in comparison with rafi & ghantasala – it will be like comparing an ant hill with two mighty mountains.
I used to hear good songs of Kishore Kumar like “Hawaon se lik dum
hawon ke naam”,”chotee see yeh duniyaa”,”mrea jeevan kora kagaz”
etc.but whenever i start hear his yodlee songs,i used to switch of the
system.i regret to say it is horrible to hear such type of his songs.
music means not “yodleeing”. as binuji said it can do by anybody.
Post 1256 >>> U Mis-informed kishore fan:
in the late fifties, there is a yodelling song sung by rafi-asha in which mohd rafi yoodles. thereafter, kishore took over what mohd rafi and op nayyar discarded and adopted as his signature singing.
there is nothing great about yodeling sir. any c grade comedian actor will do this yodelling – even in his sleep.
i have never seen kishore whistling in his stage programmes or reading about it. listen to the rafi number : mai jaat yamla pagla diwana in which the whistling part is done by rafi himself.
pyarelal ji told us recently: mohd rafi was “so” good at this that he would wait eagerly for the whistling moment to come………………..
be it a madhuban me radhika, or a yahoooooo or tum mujhe yoon bhula na paaoge and many other gems, only mohd rafi could out-do mohd rafi, no one else.
ur sinister and frog mentality will never make u enjoy mohd rafi gems i believe – unlike millions of other music lovers. good bye for good, for now.
binu nair
Shukla de : Kishore da can also never be overestimated. he was overlooked by all leading composers for two decades and half and he had to rely on various trades – due to this.
kishore da sang some very good songs. every one will agree . pls do not compare him with rafi saaheb any time. pls compare him with kumar sanu, anwar or some b grade singers of the tinseltown.
ref post 1256,
mr shukla de, your post was all about yodelling, yodelling , yodelling & nothing else. does music consists of yodelling only my friend ? what is this yodelling ? is it so great ? its against all the norms of music. by yodelling you are making fun of the ‘ notes ‘. now do you understand what i mean by ‘ notes ‘ ? you can not reproduce this yodelling in any musical instrument. because its the destructive & devastative form of a musical note. do you say its a huge credit ? does the world of music ends with yodelling only ?
if so, here is my answer. yeh jo yodelling, phodelling aap keh rahe ho, ye sab rafi sahab ka bayein haath ka khe hai’. yuo listen to only one song of rafi sahab that is a feroz khan starrer a black & white movie. he teases mumtaz by running & following in his car. the yodelling he created its beyond the reach of your favourite playback singer my friend. you find out the name of the picture & song. i wont tell you now. in case you fail, then tell me. i will help you out.
coming next did you listen to the song ‘ yaar chulbula hai, haseen dilruba hai’ of shammi kapoor. listen to that yodel when rafi sahab gives the yodel at the word ‘ hai ‘ of ‘ chulbula hai ‘ at some places.
yodelling is the western style & remember for a person like rafi sahab having learnt indian classical music yodelling is just a fun & dust of the foot.
long ago I used to come to this site and read and write the articles/letters here….but soon i saw that people are fighting like street dogs here on Rafi sahab and kishor kumar issue.
Today i saw one Shukla de is urguing Rafi Sahab/ghantsala can not do yodelling like kishor…so he was superb.
Dear Shukla, i know some great singers and their names are lata mangeshkar.asha bhosle, mukesh, manna dey, talat mahmood, jagjit singh, pankaj udas, kavita krishnamurty, alka yagnik, mehandi hasan, ghulam ali etc.
I never heard them doing yodelling. Have you heard ?
Perhaps they do not know how to do yodelling or perhaps they can not yodel.
So do you think all they are below kishor kumar ?
post 1256:
Here are a few songs where Rafi is yodeling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVYBa4S4yVA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH0xbgeJ4ts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No2HARfB2ZI
(i guess there is another punjabi song)
And hear these, all of them are better than kishore (there are many more who are better than kishore):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDDEk2AMJAI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doUNMfLEI70&feature=PlayList&p=6DD90B1F851C665B&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=29
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9oxbyLlAYI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whIj6mrUGzQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WijPiUhIzJU
and do u want to learn yodelling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6s6NM5sYQs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfdfTsdg1Iw
Reply to Post no. 1256
Kishore did not invent yoodeling. There are so many copy cat artists can render yoodeling very well. My college time friend could yoodel as good as original. I have heard him. Every person has a talent. You haven’t heard americal cow boy’s original yoodeling. If you love listening yoodeling so much, listen to cow boy yoodeling. Please don’t bring this excuse again.
Post 1256: Nothing is great in Kishore’s so called yodelling. Kumar Shanu, Abhijeet, Amit Kumar, and others can also do it. That’s not music!
Mr. Kumar & Rafi fan
Kishore kumar cannot be underestimated. He too has special talents. It is no doubt that rafi was one of the great singers . And ghantasala, (a new find in this site) has also been very great (indeed a dream for me by surprise), & I agree that in technical ability & classical fimly renditions he is ahead of rafi and kishore. no doubt both rafi and ghantasala are great, but I do not think rafi , ghantasala despite his greatness, can surpass kishore in yodelling effects & renditions, Can the great rafi or the great ghantasala, whom you call as the greatest playback singers ever born, pour similar effects to kishore in the song jindagi ek safar hai suhana and the yodelling effects. Kishore is kishore in yodelling styles and I do not think he can be surpassed by anybody in that field. I am yet to see & hear such great & sophisticated yodelling renditions of kishore in the so called great voices of rafi & ghantasala before calling them as the greatest playback singers and sidelining kishore.
Sir Binu Nair,,,Thanx for such a nice tribute to our beloved rafi sahab,,,dispute is never going to be stopped,,,,,ya its true that righteous and honest person always excells but there r uncountables of those who r infected with crab mentallity,out of there jelousy they behave like frustrated n can supass any limit to let these finnest of human being to let down,,,,,so is with our Rafi sahab,,who only learnt to give,,never ever expected anything from anyone not even fame or appricaition but just love from listeners but there r so many to let him down…….
post:1236,,
Meenu ji,,we never want rafi sahab to be king of rats,,,,,,hence we admit supremecy of every singer,,,and more than admiting we really love them,,,,and Lataji is no exception,,,I personally feel Rafi sahab duets sound best with lataji,,and lata ji`s solo`s are also excellently outstanding,,,but,,,it wouldnot be fair to place lataji on same frame of rafi sahab,as what rafi sahab really was can`t be expressed in words,n fabric of his personality was beyond our narrow understandings,his voice was such a versatile with countless variety or texture,perfect n divine that could suit every situation n context of playback or any kind or singing,,,,,
P.s,,
Let Lata ji be number1 let ,manna de,Mukeshji,ghantashala ji,kishore kumaretc, be no 1 as well,,but Rafi sahab can not be rated with number as he is beyond these numbers both by singing n personality!!!!
Mohd rafi is not just entertainment,,he is rather a personality made of commitment to work,divotion,brotherhood,honesty,modesty and purity!
priya sanyal ji :re :Post 1251…. india has produced some very great saints. our people historically love great musicians and great saints.
mohd rafi saaheb lived his life like a saint – at all times. he was a great giver and always used to tell his family members to be givers at all times. this was recently stated to me by mr.pervez ahmed saaheb, the youngest son-in-law in the family.
mohd rafi saaheb survived in the crass film industry like the ever fresh – lotus flower . he respected all religions. he has sung the maximum bhajans – private as well as filmi. he was a great patriot who travelled to war zones and sung for the jawans and raised their morale with his unique voice.
jawaharlal nehru decorated him with an award in 1948 itself and he was a a distinguished guest at the p.m. house. any award would have been his but he never seeked one for himself unlike some of his contemporaries.
he gave up royalties for his songs which helped music companies and the producers. he paid studio rents from his own pockets and helped fellow artistes monetarily – when they were without work.
for many composers, rafi sang for a rupee (which he got in a sealed envelope) so that these composers could get more work.
mohd rafi studied only up to the fourth standard its said. but in due course, he had obtained greater and grander degrees of life.
i am a namazi and i do not need big money or wealth he reportedly told his friend ahmed bhai of calicut.
by his simple life and the intense love for his profession – be rose to become not only the greatest singer but also one among top 100 indians ever born.
mohd rafi is a singing sensation no doubt. he is also a role model for national integration and national unity.
no one can ever dispute this and the only tragedy is that god himself produces such extraordinay simple men in too meagre numbers.
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai
Rafi fan ji – 1250 and Shri Binu Nair ji – 1245
Rafi fan ji, agree with your views on M S Subbulakshmi as a great classical exponent. Regarding P suseela, i can say that she has got a thicker voice than lata and P suseela can take higher pitches better than lata, whose voice becomes thinner in the high pitches. P Suseela is also versatile and great similar to lata and she is fondly called as the lata mangeshkar of the south. Both have good melodious voices. These are my views.
Binu Nair ji, agree with your views on favorite singers and music, indeed true. Popularity and fame wise lata scores, no doubt about it sir.
Lata stands lata only, but P Suseela too is great and her contribution has been immense in the southern films.
Rafi fan ji – 1250, fully agree with your views on the greats rafi and ghantasala & their very divine voices. No dispute on that. I myself well acquainted with both the talents can say that these two can never be surpassed by anybody in their respective fields and such singers will never be born again in playback singing. Of course, there may arise a very little scope for our views to be interpreted as subjective, so we should rely upon views of qualified greats.
I want to share a piece of genuine information, in this regard, with all music lovers here.
Just around 2 weeks back in a leading telugu newspaper, there was a 3 page long interview with s p balasubrahmanyam. In one of the questions the journalist says to spb :
Spb sir, when compared with the great ghantasala……. spb immediately stopped the journalist in between without allowing him to complete the question and replied : please do not try to compare a drop of ocean (me) with the gigantic ocean itself (ghantasala). He further says that, It was my greatest fortune of previous birth that god has given an opportunity for an association with that mahanubhava (gigantic experienced & talented personality). That was the reply from spb. (The word mahanubhava is generally used for almighty in telugu language)
And with regard to the great rafi, spb’s views are well known, he calls one of his child by the name rafi and spb has immense & greatest regard for rafi. In fact I have personally read spb saying that a dream remains unfulfilled for him – that is – to sing a number with the great mohd. rafi and he says that it is most unfortunate that this dream will never be fulfilled. To part satisfy his unfulfilled dream, he calls his child by name rafi and gets satisfied and feels like an association with the great rafi himself. That is the immense regard and gratitude which spb has for the great rafi ji whose voice the encyclopaedia quotes as god’s own voice.
And Rafi fan ji, i want to add one more word to your post, the male singers rafi and ghantasala easily score by wider margins over all the female singers as well in their respective fields. This I wanted to put an addition to your view.
Thanks for your post rafi fan ji, it was a very nice reading.
Thanks to Shri Binu nair ji sir too for his supporting views.
reply to post 1246.
Mr Ghosh, only people who are worth remembering will be remembered after death and only people worth emulating will have people to clone them.
I hope you got the message into your thick skull .
And dont come to this site to spread your KK message. This site is not meant for you, pls do it somewhere else.
Saifullah
Dubai
Why Mr Binu Nair is never wrong???What he says many defends,,some praise him openly like Mr Jawed Nasim,or Mis Savita Garcia,,,,,Well,,,,Its really hard to take name of all whos dedicated for this purpose of loving Md rafi but all of them are blessed for understanding such a simple n modest person of our age,thats rafi but ecpecially Mr Nair,,,,u r great for spreading fragrance of Mohd rafi`s love all over.Divinity amongst Art world has become rarest or hardest search as they r all infected by germs of selfishness…Thanx God for making Md rafi with such a special care by providing extra talent and purity of ur modest nature …
Its useless to compare Md rafi with others,,,,,talking about other singer after Rafi is simply drinking water in pond made of mirage,that is to say impossible,,,,,,,,because,all the discussion remains “””before”’ Rafi,,,all who come to this site for discussion have something in common that they don`t love Rafi,,,,,,,so without love they can never reach the voice made of Love,,,,May God grant them insight no matter if they are simple listener like we all or a celebrity(ref 1242)….