Did R.D.Burman really preferred KK over Rafi?
This article is written by Mr.H.V.Guru Murthy.
A regular browser to web site mohdrafi.com, having gone through the letters of Rafi lovers would assume that R D Burman did not utilize Rafi properly, instead he preferred Kishore Kumar. Because of this reason, Rafi Fans are still upset with RDB even though he passed away a decade back.
Yes, it is true that RDB preferred KK over Rafi during early seventies. For that matter, which Music Director or Actor or Producer or Director will not have his preference. It was well known that Raj Kapoor always preferred Mukesh, Manoj Kumar preferred Mukesh or Mahendra Kapoor, B.R.Chopra films had Mahendra, MD Ravi also had plenty of songs with Mahendra so also O.P after he broke with Rafi. Similarly OP always had either Asha or Geetha Dutt and never Lata. Salil also used all other Singers. Director Subba Rao insisted on Mukesh for SAATHI even though the hero was Rajendra Kumar and MD Naushad, two Rafi Fans. Even Kalyanji Anandji had many films with Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and KK even though Rafi was instrumental in their raise through JAB JAB PHOOL KHILE, AAMNE SAAMNE, etc. LP, by all means Rafi Bhakts, used KK regularly in the early seventies even for Rafi heroes like Jeetendra, Dharmendra, etc. SJ also switched over to KK in movies like MAIN SUNDAR HOON, DIL DAULAT DUNIYA, KAL AAJ AUR KAL, etc. Of course, the music standard came down a notch or two in that period. But, well, it is their prerogative to have whomsoever they wanted though I am sure in heart of heart, why even openly, they would have admitted the superiority of Rafi over all other Singers. Similarly, RDB also used KK for almost all his movies in the early seventies as perhaps he had some special chemistry with him.
However, let us not forget that RDB used Rafi extensively during late sixties as his main playback singer right from the first movie. He gave hit music with Rafi in TEESRI MANZIL, NAQLI NAWAAB, CARAVAN, PYAAR KA MAUSAM, THE TRAIN, ABHILASHA, ADHIKAR, RATON KA RAAJA, etc. Later during late seventies he returned to Rafi and gave hits like SHAAN, HUM KISISE KUM NAHIN, ABDULLAH, ZAMANE KO DIKHANA HAI, etc. In between, he had Rafi in CHANDI SONA qawali with Mannadey (Ek Shok Hasina Se), YADON KI BAARAT (Title song and who can forget the duet with Asha Chura Liya Hai Tumne), DIL KA BAADSHAH (this Raj Kumar starrer had all songs by Rafi), THE GREAT GAMBLER (Raftasa Mera Naam), SHEHZADA (Solo Tere Attaroo and duet with Lata Kaahe Ko Bulaya), etc.
If a person cannot appreciate the greatness of Rafi, then it can be safely concluded that the person does not have a sense of music. Of course, RDB was a good MD though not a great MD like Naushad, Madan Mohan, OP Nayyar, SDB, etc. RD would have definitely known the great qualities of Rafi, the Singer. Just because he did not use Rafi extensively as one would expect, let us not degrade this MD who gave us some good songs in CHANDAN KA PALNA, PADOSAN, HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA, MERE JEEVAN SAATHI, AJNABEE, AMAR PREM, SANAM TERI KASAM, BHOOT BANGLA, BAHARON KE SAPNE (Rafi solo Zamane Ne Maare), PARICHAY, KINAARA, APNA DESH, ZAHREELA INSAAN, RAMPUR KA LAKSHAMAN (Pyaar Ka Samay with Lata, KK and Rafi), 1942 – A LOVE STORY, KATI PATANG to certain extent, etc. though he gave some very mediocre music in films like DEEWAR, SHOLAY, KITAAB, ZAKHMEE, RAFOO CHAKKAR, NAMKEEN, DHARAM KARAM and BIWI O BIWI (so un-RK film like), etc. so many forgettable movies as for as music was concerned.
The irony of RDB was either he gave good music or petered out to a very mediocre music in so many films. I read some where that Shashi Kapoor called RD as National Anthem Music Director. In those days, theatres used to play National Anthem at the end of the movie and the Hall doors used to be shut till the completion of the Anthem. As soon as the Anthem used to commence, our in-disciplined people used to rush to the Hall Door and wait for the door opening. Similarly, whenever RDB songs commenced in most of the movies, people used to rush to toilet.
Still, it is not fair that we use harsh and sometimes, un-parliamentary language against any body if they differ with our views. We cannot forget the contribution of all these MDs, Heroes, Singers, Directors, etc. in making the Indian Film Music so rich.
Post 1243 – V Kumar ji,
P suseela is great so is M S Subbulakshmi – as you put it. MS Subbulakshmi is purely classical & she has excelled in classical music field, so in my opinion it is not correct to compare her with lata mangeshkar. P suseela is fine, but again in my view, in speciality of voice, lata has slight edge against p suseela, who incidentally too is great.
Post 1246 – Ghosh ji,
Binu Nair ji is correct in 1248 with reference to modulation factor. In my honest view, Rafi had clear edge in modulation over kishore. Kishore is great & his talent was a different talent in a single way, which was liked by some composers and in those ranges kishore was nice to hear. But at the end with regard to overall talent & versatality / attraction factor in voice melody etc. it was rafi who had a clear edge over kishore. Versatality wise rafi was certainly great as compared to kishore. In kishore’s ranges he was nice. In my pure honest view, rafi ji scored over all other singers in terms of modulation, talent, versatality & melody factors and so was lata mangeshkar in the female category. In my view/knowledge, in some ranges & genres in comparison to the great rafi in terms of modulation, talent, versatality/melody factors, only the southern filmy singer, Shri Ghantasala was great & unique , barring Shri Ghantasala, all others fall short near the unique rafi’s talent.
Post 1246: Mr. Ghosh, dimaag ka ilaaz karwa lo, warna yeh KK ka virus hai na, aapko le doobega. Yaar, thoda soch kar likha karo.
1246 : Kuntal ghoh saaheb :
do (2) mistakes hai aap ke view me. the first one is present day composers are searching for good and sound lyricists – who can pen some soul stirring and simple lyrics and not any hoarse sound for the moment. please read the interview of maestro a.r. rehman inthe internet or screen mag in this regard.
second. since kis. kumar could not modulate his voice, he was the imposed voice of certain composers from the far eastern region for some heroes only.
all the mainstream heroes used mohd rafi’s modulated voice. and, three generations of the kapoors used mohd rafi – for various moods and times.
please do check your facts before spilling your personal and subjective beliefs.
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai……
kuntal ghosh ji post 1246
a person aspiring for an IIT seat has to settle for a seat in an engineering college if he/she is not up to the mark. similar is the case with kk clones as cloning rafisaab’s voice is not easy and they have opted to take the easy way out !!!
a pure and simple obs is the no of clones kk has after his death and no of clones rafi had after his death……that gives us an idea who is eternal…….even today music directors search for someone who can sing like kk—-the voice of indian HERO
Kumar ji : If an opinion is based on the popularity, reach, recall value of songs, longevity – the lata mangeshkar scores hands down.
if any other singer is so good, then we would have discussed her, not lata didi.
i agree, views will differ, music sense too. we all have our favourite singers/music/songs.
lets enjoy these good music so that the heart will sing.
binu nair, mumbai – Rafi Foundation…..
after the death of rafi saab, there was an interview of yesudasji in
a malayalam weekly called “malayala nadu”.in the interview yesudas
was telling about rafi saab.according to him,rafi saab was a wonderful
personality who was away from bad habits.the young generation
should follow him.he also told in a function (i think it was the function
of filmfare awards) he sung the song of rafi saab from the film “jeene
ki raah” infront of rafi saab.he started the song after garlending
rafi saab.(in his words i garlended rafi saab,my manasik guru before
starting the song)also once he took the songs of “tansen” to rafi saab
and after hearing the songs rafi saab appreciated him.
people have little knowledge are spreading unnecessary things.if they
want to compare rafi saab with kishoreji,they caanot say kk is having
any song better than rafi saab instead they will seek the help of
other singers.this is because of the lack of good songs of kk.when kk
want to perform an open air programme in cochin,he sought the
help of yesudas but at the same time rafi saab performed live
programmes even in the samll towns of kerala such as talassery.
now a musical programme is running in a malayalam channel
“kairali tv” about rafi saab since first week of february.it
is interesting rafi saab is number one in some parts of kerala such
as calicut and other northern kerala.once malayalam cine actor
jagadish told rafi saab is having die hard fans in calicut than in
lucknow.that is without singing a single song in malayalm and in the
state from which a singer like yesudas is hailing.
i heard so many people in kerala become rafi fans after hearing the
song “oh duniyaa ke rakwale” from his live programme of ‘royal
albert hall,london”.the way in which he sung the song,the appluse
from the audiance and in the last part of the song ho…the end is
just like an end of a heavy rain with thunderstorm.no other singer
male or female can perform in such a way.
recently i have seen the video of song”sarjo tera jukraye” comedian
johnny walker in the screen with the voice of rafi saab.how matching the voice?it is unbelievable.i have laughed and cried at the same time.
i laughed after seeing the actions of johnny walker and cried a singer
in all the ways – the ever smiling face – the handsome nature – the
perfect gentleman – the versatality – the singer of singers – the
kindness to everybody – cause of livelyhood for millions – why such
a great humanbeing did not get what he deserves.that is the cause
of tears in my eyes.
Binu Nair ji,
Views differ, I respect your views, But in my honest opinion, p suseela from films and m s subbulakshmi , classical range are ahead of lata mangeshkar, of course, I may sound subjective, but this is my honest view. Not to say anything against lata , she is great but the southern counterparts are not inferior though.
one for Meenu ji : post 1236 :
three cheers for meenuji for steadfasted-ly holding on to lata didi and proclaming that lata didi is the best. i agree with her for the female lead singer category. there can be no two opinions, lata ji is the best female singer ever born.
keep it up meenu ji but tell me are you meena mangeshkar writing in as meenu.
binu nair/mumbai/ binus2000@hotmail.com
Correct observation, Gurumurthy sir (post# 1239). Rafisahab’s voice remained strong and steady at all the octaves and moreover it became even better as he stretched it.
dear rafians,
one of the rafians in this devine site stated that after basic
needs of humanbeing food,clothing and shelter rafi saab’s
song is a must.he also said if somebody’s favourite died,
the sorrow will be maximum for four or five years but the death
of rafi saab is still creating some sort of sadness in the hearts
of millions across the world.whoever got whatever award,is
anybody in the world from any field of performance is having
such a wonderful place in the hearts of their fans?other artists
who even cannot imagine about that.that is why rafians are
of the openion that rafi saab should not be compared with
anybody since he is above on everybody.
Friends,
Let us not degrade any Singer. All the yesteryear Singers like Rafi, Mannadey, Talat, Mukesh, Hemant, Kishore, Mahendra, Lata, Asha, Geetha, Suman, etc. have given us wonderful moments and we are greatful to all of them. If impassionately seen, talent-wise, Rafi, Lata, Manna and Asha score over others. Others had certain limitations especially while singing classical or qawali.
Manna unfortunately did not have a voice to suit heroes except perhaps Raj Kapoor. Asha was very good but she could not put feelings into songs like Rafi or Lata or Manna. Lata was perhaps the best of the lot but her voice became shrill whenver she sang at higher pitches. As for as Rafi is concerned, he was the best as he could sing any song with ease whether qawali or classical, at lower pitch or higher pitch, he had a steady voice.
Post 1236: Rafi Saheb was much more talented than Lata. She cannot sing songs from Baiju Bawra sung by Rafi Saheb, nor she can sing Zindabad Ae Mohabbat Zindabad from Moghul e Azam. She is not 100%, while Rafi Saheb can sing any song.
1236,,,sory,,but its u whos churning,,award story and whos winner n whose loser,,for us there is no point of churning,,we already have got our share of butter as Rafi shab,,,,thats sweetest than anything else,,,,,its like the butter of vrindavan to lord krishna its taste can`t be comprehended with the materialistic intellect,,,who keep on roaming on stats having crab mentality,,,Rafi sahab didn`t like logic, he was such a pure heart,,,so why he`s great can`t be explaind,,as rafi lovers don`t blv in tark-e -mohabbat that why we like Rafi,,,,yet rafi sahab has so many quality that,,even if a bit of which would be enough for any singing comparision,and on word from any of Rafi song would be more than enough to prove his singing suprimacy over others,,,but we r not sick to remain involved in sich discussion,,,we know our angel thats enough for us no need to explain,,,,,but there is a saying in hindi,,,,,bahins ke aage bin nahi bajana chahiye……
There is no point churning history. Look at the present. LATA is winner !
World know she is the only ‘Bharat Ratna’. It is hardly matters how many duets she sang with Rafi. It only matters that MDs were not happy working with other female singers (It was sheer compromise using other female singers ) .
Today she reached and made her place in millions of hearts that nobody can ever reach near her.
dear friends
words of rd burman:
“Mere pita ji (S.D.Burman) Rafi sahab ko bahot pasand kartay thay. Unhon ne ‘Pyasa’, ‘Kala Bazar’, ‘Guide’ aor ‘Ishq Par Zor Nahin’ aor baqi films main un ki awaz ka behtareen istemal (use) kiya tha.
Main pita ji ke saath kaam karta tha to Rafi sahab se milne ka maoqa milta rehta tha. ‘Chhote Nawab’ main mujhe azadana taor par music dene ka maoqa mila to main ne pehla geet Rafi sahab ki awaz main hi record karwaya. Jab main kamyaab hua to zamana badal chuka tha aor waqt ke lehaaz se doosre gayekon ko lena padta tha is liye main Rafi sahab ki awaz se zyada fayda na utha saka. Is ka mujhe hamesha afsos rehe ga.
Rafi sahab bade masoom thay. Saadgi un main koot koot kar bhari hui thi. Un main bachon jaisi inkaar wali baat bhi thi. Bade bholpan (childish) se inkaar ka lafz apne honton se nikaaltay – abhi haal hi main inteqaal se qabal (just before death) meri ek nai film main un ki awaz meri awaz k saath record ki gayi. Us geet ke bol thay ‘yamma yamma’, jab main ne kaha (dartay dartay) ‘Rafi sahab is geet main mai bhi apni awaz aap ki awaz se milaoon ga’ to kehne lagay ‘aray nahin, main kaisay gaa sakoon ga’. Yeh un ki aadat thi although unho ne woh geet gay. Jab bhi geet ki recording hoti woh bhindi bazar se halwa latay aor hum log ek saath baith kar khatay thay.
Woh halwa woh pyar ab ek yaad ban kar reh gayi. Woh halwa ab kadwa karaila ban kar reh gaya hai – kya kiya jay??? “
mr.mohammad waqas : there is no place for religion in music and please shut up with your communal woes and views. (1233)
please also find some other space to write your poisonous views. there is dis-harmony in your mind-set. please try to harmonise it and exit fast
binu nair, mumbai….
According to me ,R.D Burman did not preferred Mohammad Rafi because Mohammad Rafi was a Muslim and R.D Burman was Hindu.Due to which Burman’s mind was racial.
Dearest KK fans,
hit songs not mean that he or she is great singer as we all know that all songs sang by Mr Bachchan are super hit but that not make him a great singer……….as we all know that songs become hit in bollywood not only because of the singer only but in the case of Mohd Rafi some thing else because if you count Mohd Rafi songs to unknown actors or music directors or B grade films or C grade films are hit….
If you agree or not I think SJ was the best music director ever born in bollywood but you KK fans say that RD is the best!!!!!!!!why?Maybe I agree if you say that SD or Naushand or Madan Mohan are better.
KK had many great songs as we all know that
there are many KK fans they say about mohd Rafi songs that is KK singing but there is no mohd Rafi say that
post 1229 – gurumurthy ji,
In fact, the major songs which were hits of KK – the list goes in numerous numbers.
Maana Janaab Ne Pukara Nahin from Paying Guest
Hum Hain Rahi Pyar Ke from Nau Do Gyarah
Ai Meri Topi Palat Ke Aa from Funtoosh
Ek Ladki Bheegi Bhaagi Si
Haal Kaisa Hai Janaab Ka from Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi
Chhod Do Aanchal from Paying Guest
Ankhon Mein Kya Ji from Nau Do Gyarah
Paanch Rupaiya Baara Aana from Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi
Chhedo Na Meri Zulfein from Ganga Ki Lahren
Arre Yaar Meri Tum Bhi Ho Gajab from Teen Deviyan
Eena Meena Deeka from Aasha
Nakhrewaali from New Delhi by Shankar Jaikishan
C.A.T. Cat Maane Billi and Hum To Mohabbat Karega from Dilli Ka Thug
Zaroorat Hai Zaroorat Hai from Manmauji
Gaata Rahe Mera Dil from Guide
Yeh Dil Na Hota Bechara from Jewel Thief
Mere Saamne Wali Khidki Mein and Kehna Hai from padosan
Mere Sapno Ki Rani and Roop Tera Mastana
Phoolon Ke Rang Se and Shokhiyon Mein Ghola Jaaye from Prem Pujari
Aaj Madhosh Hua Jaaye Re
Khilte Hain Gul Yahan and O Meri Sharmilee from Sharmeelee
Meet na mila from Abhimaan
Pyaar Ke Is Khel Mein from Jugnu.
O Maajhi Re from Khushboo, Yeh Shaam Mastaani and Yeh Jo Mohabbat Hai from Kati Patang
Kuchh To Log Kahenge from Amar Prem
Raat Kali Ek Khwab Mein Aayi from Buddha Mil Gaya
Musafir Hoon Yaaron from Parichay
Diye Jalte Hain from Namak Haraam
Meri Bheegi Bheegi Si from Anamika
Zindagi Ke Safar Mein from Aap Ki Kasam
Agar Tum Na Hote, Humein Tum Se Pyaar Kitna from Kudrat
Mere Naina Saawan Bhadon from Mehbooba
Chingari Koi Bhadke (Amar Prem)
Jab Bhi Koi Kangana from Shaukeen
The above songs range from 1954 – 1986. All of them were hits and popular numbers of KK.
Post 1224 and 1225
Very nice, including repeats it comes to 26,000 What a interpretation
I am also a singer. I too have sung rafi and kishore songs in my home , each song many a time, the total might have gone even to 50,000 or more. There should be some sincerity while quoting facts. Anyhow, thanks for the humour.
I am totally surprised by the KK Fans because whenever they talk about KK, they quote some crap songs of 70s like “Dream Girl”, “Haal Kya Hai”, etc. In fact, percentage-wise (good songs to total songs sung), KK has sung more wonderful songs before Aradhana than afterwards. In fact, if I have to defend KK, I would quote songs from movies like, Door Gagan Ki Chaon Me, Nau Do Gyarah, Paying Guest, Teen Deviyan, Jhumroo, Kahmoshi, Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi, Rangoli, Funtoosh, etc. After Aradhana also, I do not know why people do not quote songs from Safar, Mere Jeevan Saathi, etc. but examples are given of crap songs.
gurumurthy ji (Post 1221)…..
greetings to all mohd rafi fans and lovers. if the music is good the heart “will” sing.
May i point out that the total tally of our great singer kishore kumar is : 1600 songs approx.
More, kishore never could read the notations of a song. he has also acted in 95 films and gave music for some very great songs.
he passed away on oct.13 , 1987. the day was ashok kumar’s birthday.
binu nair……rafi foundation. mumbai….
A Raj,
When do ever repeat pyaasa and baiju bawra repeatedly?
what about:
dil ek mandir
hum dono
tere ghar ke saamne
bambai ka babu
guide
kashmir ki kali
pyar ka mausam
chitralekha
dosti
an evening in paris
teesri manzil
mehboob ki mehndi
laila majnu
hum kisi se kum nahin
aradhana itself
chaudvin ka chand
dharamveer
naseeb
abdullah- best song went to rafi
abhilasha
mere sanam
phir wohi dil laaya hoon
aap to aise na the
dostana
the train
the burning train
list goes on and on
obviously you don’t want to listen to these soundtracks and prove yourself wrong.
and kishore being king from 1969.. yes he was but only upto mid 70’s.. he wasnt as powerful once rajesh khanna’s hair thinned,skinned thickened and started to look molten and stale.. and unfortunately amitabh had the reputation of having mostly crap songs, with a few exceptions.
dear narayan sahab,
ha ha ha . finally you have found out that i am ramakrishna the same person who used to write articles & comments. thank you sir.
as regards the songs kk was lagging our guruji both quantity as well as popularity wise. i came to know through my friends & news papers that in the concerts where both rafi sahab & kishore were there the audience had a huge round of applause while rafi sahab at the mike. there were tremendous clapping & once more noice. its all because rafi sahab used to steal the hearts of people of all ages, be it a teen age, damsel or a senior citizen.
what a magical power he had ! ! !
Dear Ramakrishna saab post Sabnavees.. You are on dot whne you say that the total songs sung by Rafi sahab including repeats in different programs etc can total more than 26000 as claimed.
Dear Guruji, I read in the magazine that after Rafi KK comes distant behind with 3300 songs.
As for quality and quantity it is always Rafi sahab followed by other male playback..
gurumurthy avarey,
namaskara. chennagidderaa?
i agree with you. but i count the total songs basing on rafi sahab’s total renditions at all concerts throughout the globe & his original recordings in the studios. he has given innumerable programmes both commercial as well as charity including the programmes for the jawaans at the boarder.
in this way if he would have sung each song 10 times on an average leaving behind those not so familiar once then the total touches the figure of 28,000.
Janab Guru Murthy Saheb, Adab Araz hai,
You are right. With referance to Mr. Saleem-ul-haq’s book on biography with complete songs list on Rafi sahab, total songs are 4941. These includes filmy, non-filmy, gazals, private and other languages. The number of solo songs is 2109. Murthy saheb, I really admire you for your love and repect towards our legend.
With regards to all rafi lovers.
Long live rafi sahab,
Dr. Khaja Aliuddin
Gurumurthyji, your analysis and compilation of the number of songs seem to be correct. I do have a book which lists all the songs of Rafi Sahab for Hindi movies and that list is about 4976 songs. Besides these, Rafi Sahab sang in various other languages for films and they could add up to about a 100 songs. His non-film songs too could be around another 100 or 200 songs at the most. The debate had erupted with the Guinness book of records having accepted lataji’s claim to have recorded 25,000 songs and rafi sahab had known that he had indeed recorded more than what lataji had done and hence he had sent his claim of ‘over 25,000’ songs which the guinness book of records also mentioned as “the claim”. later, in their next editions, the publishers had removed the claims of both lataji and rafi sahab.
The actual number of songs sung by Rafi is around 4900, Lata about 4000, Kishore slightly less than 4000 and Asha more than 7000. The claims of both Rafi and Lata that they sang more than 28000 songs is questionable. Not sure on what basis they arrived at the figure. Rafiji sang from 1944 to 1980, i.e. 36 years. If he had sung 28000 songs, it works out to 778 songs per year, i.e. more than two songs every day, which is highly improbable, as we have to take out Sundays, the number of days Rafi went on foreign tours which exceeds 30, each of more than 30 days. Also the number of songs he sang during the 1972 to 76 period was quite less. Add to this, the number of days he would have not gone for recording due to illness, etc. Rafi reortedly did not record any songs for eight months during early seventies. In fact, people who have worked out song by song have arrived at the above figures of around 4900 songs of Rafi including film songs in all languages and non-filmy albums.
@Raj: A Step-by-step reply.
“You quote some singers names spb etc. who have praised rafi.”
I have serious doubts if you even know as to who SPB, P.B. Srinivos, S.Janki, P. Susheela, K.J. Yesudas,or Ghantasala are? Have you heard their songs and know their debt, range, etc. Even Chitra, have you heard her? In terms of achievement each of them is second to none.
Ghantasaala and Rafi were working parallely at the same time in hindi and telugu (south) respectively. Their admiration for each other is well known, and there is no need to repeat that again. SPB, KJY, SJ, and PS have sung thousands of songs together, and have never had a single ego clash till date. Ask KJY about SPB and vice versa.
On 8 Feb, 2009 I had met SPB on the annual fans meet. There is no limit to which he praises Rafiji and he does the same about Ghantasaala too.
“Can you prove that spb etc. whether have said that other singers are not fit to stand before rafi.”
Have you ever heard legends making as silly remarks as that :D. Get a life.
“For instance, many ghantasala fans claim ghantasala to be greater than rafi.”
Now tell me did Ghantasaala claim that or his fans 😀
“Did spb ever said that ghantasala is inferior to rafi – could you prove.”
Plz read those posts again and show as in the first place where that author (sabneevas) claimed this. In your dreams? 😀
“Or p susheela or p b srinivas as you quoted did ever quote this.”
An interesting anecdote. There are quite few songs whose lyrics were written by PBS, and were sung by SPB.
“Simply praising rafi does not mean that other singers are not great.”
Nobody said that. WHy are you putting words in others mouth.
“I understand from other true voice forum in one of the posts that rafi himself had praised ghantasala and quoted him as incomparable (than rafi himself).”
Yes, Rafiji would have certainly praised and each of the greats that I have listed (and mentioned by you too) have that quality in them. Let me tell you another fact. In a film which was unfortunately not released by Rajshri films, there was music by Ravindra Jain and sung by KJY. The song begins like this “Sadaj ne paya yeh varadan”, and the movie was named and based on “Tansen”. After 48 retakes over 2 days, the song was okayed and it was a marvelous song. Its available on entelokam.com. When RJ played it to Rafiji, Rafiji simply said “Yeh gaana Rafi nahi gaa sakta”. Needless to say, it was not a semi-classical song, but a classical song. However, Anil Cherian will best tell you what KJY thinks about Rafiji.
“S Janaki from the south has praised kishore kumar as well equally. ”
As you don’t know who SJ is, plz stop passing their quotes. Plz, stop 😀
Finally, i have just one thing to add. Plz put together all the the quotes about KK by SPB, KJY, Ghantasaala, PBS, SJ, PS, and Chitra. I will give you one choclate per quote. You won’t get more than 10. Now, you collect their quotes for Rafiji, and give me just one chocolate per ten quotes. THis will be a huge loss for you 😀
Regarding kishore fan’s post no.1217:
“However, the number is irrelevant, it is the quality that matters than quantity”
Definitely, but your statement is all the more irrelevant because Rafi had both highest quality and highest quantity.
Dearest kishorefan,I agree that there is no record that Mohd Rafi sang more than 28000 songs but there is record thand Mohd rafi sang more than any other male singer or I can say more than KK….
jest give me 10 super hit films name which was hit as music by KK?
Take SD Buram ,RD Burman,Rajesh Khanna and Mr Bachachan out from KK.
Q1.who is SD Burman?
Ans:he was one of the top music director in 1950’s and 1960’s.
Q2;who is Rd Burman?
Ans;The son of great music director and husband of great singer(Asha Ji)
Q3:who is Rajesh Khanna?
Ans:the super star .
Q4;who is Mr Bachchan?
Ans:The super star of Bollywood till date,
who know about music they said that music born on late 1940’s was child in 1950’s,was young in 1960’s,was old in 1970’s and died in 1980.(it is not said by me)do you know WHY?please think you will get the answer all because of mohd rafi,
Mohd Rafi like Sun,As sun is so important for human life but we can’t go close to the sun and it is the same how the singer is great but he can’t come close to Mohd Rafi
Narayan ji – post no. 1216
A Raj seems to be correct. Let us analyse in practical way. As per my view some 5000 films have been released in hindi till today. Even if you take rafi ji singing for at least 3000 films (only for example) and 4 songs on an average per film, it cannot cross 12,000, – leave 28,000 number. Fine, this should be the case with lata mangeshkar also – 40,000 number seems to be beyond imagination and exagerration. Let us think practically. However, the number is irrelevant, it is the quality that matters than quantity.
Dear Raj,
Adaab Rafi !
First I thought of nt replying but wanted to correct you regarding the Bharat Ratna for Rafi sahab.
Are you aware that Rafi sahab was given the govt coveted order of PADNASHREE in the mid 60s for his contribution and after that naturally the order of award increases from Padmabhusahn,Padmavibhushan and finally Bharat Ratna.
Lataji pt her foot down and she was awarded Padmavibhushan later ( She refuded Padmashree) and during the NDA govt the Bharat Ratna.
Rafi sahab never canvassed for any awards and he considered his huge legoin of music lovers as the award. So if some section of Raf fans are campaigning for the Ratna it is only to correct the historic blunder committed by the Govt as stated above.
Regarding the number of songs it is a fact that Rafi sahab’s songs are more that the sumtotal of All Male playback singers viz Kishoreda’s + Mukeshji+ Manna da’s+ Talat saab’s+ Mahendra kapoor’s + Hemanda’s.
So whether Lataji claims she has sung 40000 or just 12000 is irrelevant..
A. Raj seems to be one of those jealous Kishore fans living in a dream world, and not accepting reality. The question is why make Kishore bigger than he really is ?. Why glorify him to such an extent, something he does not deserve ?. Well that’s what such people do in these cases, when one is oblivious to the truth, one walks into other paths.
The comments of my fellow Rafians have already stated and exposed the myths of the comments made by A. Raj that I do not need to say any more. As it is, the truth is the truth, Kishore is no where close to Rafi-saab in any aspect of singing, any knowledgeable music individual will tell you the same thing, and any knowledgeable music individual will also never put Kishore or any singer close to Rafi. Rafi’s career is like the shining sun whereas Kishore only received recognition in singing later on, and that too not to the level, standards and extent of Rafi. Unmatched brilliance, consistency and quality singing in various genres and so much more for more than three decades is the amazing Rafi, a feat no singer can equal. Why compare a candle (Kishore) to the sun (Rafi) ?. One cannot compare them anyways, because they are so far a part. Ofcourse such Kishore fans do not understand the obvious, I feel sorry for them, and hope that they see the light one day.
Ofcourse Kishore lovers quote myths, untrue stories, lies, rumours etc. to try and spread their propoganda, there is ample proof everywhere, not only on this forum but elsewhere. However it definitely doesn’t work and will never work. Rafi fans always say the truth, and report facts, true stories, reality etc. as can be seen here and elsewhere as well. As for Rafi fans falling on Kishore supporters, add that to the other lines of comedy written by Kishore fans.
Mr. XXX, great to see you back !.
Abhi Na Jaaooo chod kar ke dil abhi bhara nahin… this is the best ever romantic song made in the last 50 years according to dev anand saaheb.
manmohan singh , p.m. uttered the words : “mai zindagi ka saath nibhata chala gaya” when releasing dev saahebs book in new delhi . he said this is the song based on the philosophy of life.
all these were aired on national tv. this is for the info of kishore kumar fans who are deaf to good songs and music. no kishore kumar songs were mentioned by the great actor who often used kk voices for easy songs. most of them eaasyyy hummable numbers which even a child can render on a stage.
for hard and difficult numbers, dev saaheb always relied on mohd rafi. this is true with sdb too.
kk lovers please open your ears and minds and enjoy some beautiful numbers from mohd rafi.
both the above mentioned songs were taken in our concert of 4th april at dinanath . every time there was shouts of once more and once more.
please bring some melody in to ears and try to give a rest to the hoarse, non-melodious voice – for a change.
binus….. the rafi foundation, mumbai
Raj Saab,
Refer your post no. 1205 & 1206. I have seen a TV interview of SP Balasubramanyam few months back where he clearly admitted that he was a fan of Ghantasala before he entered the film industry, but after entering the film industry he came to know the real worth of Rafi and became his Fan.
During his program at Chowdiah Memorial Hall, Bangalore last year, where I was present, Mannadey while praising Music Director Madan Mohan admitted that the Gazals of Madan Mohan sung by Rafi and Lata are all great and how so ever he tried he could not sing like them.
The way Sonu Nigam goes on praising Rafi in each of his program is very well known.
Jatin – Lalit during last year “Voice of India” competition openly said that there cannot be another Rafi Saab.
Any further proof needed? Pl understand that undue praise of KK is unnecessarily degrading and brininging out the weekness of KK, who otherwise was a Genius. It is some thing like RDB fully depending on KK during the phase of 72 to 76 giving him even classical, qawali, etc. and exposing his limitations.
I know a lot of people who love other singers more but acknowledges that Rafisahab is the ultimate. My young friend Prabhanjan (who writes here sometimes) is a die-hard SPB fan, but he says ‘this Rafi is unreal’. I know a lady (musically very accomplished) who swears by Hemantda but who has no issues in acknowledging that ‘Rafisahab is the greatest one ever’. Our respected Dhaniram sir is a confessed Mukeshji-bhakt. But ask him who’s the best and he’d tell everyone that ‘Rafisahab is untouchable’. My elder brother belongs to the same band. We have a well-known singer in South named Unni Menon who is actually a crowned “Yesudas clone”. When asked to name (his) greatest singer, his reply was Rafisahab. And I know several folks (musical ones and not-so-musical ones) who adore Kishoreda for variety of reasons (that thundering voice, for instance) but who have absolutely no doubt as to who the greatest was.
But.. I am yet to come across some one who says his favourite is Rafisahab but the greatest is X, Y or Z.
1187 – 1202, So much has been said on the debate needlesly raked up by KK fans that I do not need to go any further, The comments by ‘xxx’ (post 1204) were great LOL.
Post 1199 Gurumurthy saab NOt only myself but I guess most of you have must have even heard the MK version of ‘Man re’ and that too is also not a part of what Rafisaab conveyed through his renderation.
Post 1282 Sabnavees saab, do you really beleive that it could have been that tough for Rafisaab to render ‘Jahan hai qadam tere’ I don’t think so and many will agree with me that Lata’ji’s voice seemed frail where Rafisaab bettered her in this duet, Listen to Lata when she sings Toofan uthayegi duniya magar Ruk Na sakenga dil ka safar, The Ruk na sakenga second time seemstough for her voice.
I wonder what KK’s fans have to say of the fact that KK had to wait for RDB to arrive on the scene.Was not 60’s considered the Golden Era of HFM. 20 years is a long time considering that KK sang his first song for Shikari in 1946.If RDB was the only genius to have understod KK’s potential (I am not mentioning SDB here as he gave all the class songs to Rafisaab and others ‘ GUIDE,TERE GHARKE SAAMNE,PYAASA,kAGAZ KE PHOOL,BAAT EK RAAT KI,BAMBAI KA BABU and even Talat mehmood for Taxi driver and Bandini wheras all chalta purza kind of songs mostly of Devanand productions to KK-This shows how much he trusted KK as a singer, To explain a tune to Mannadey and tell him to pass on the same to Rafisaab,ask manna dey and he will shows how SDB measured KK as a singer ) Coming back to what I was saying If RDB was the only genius to have understod KK’s potential then pray tell me what were Naushad,SJ,Madan Mohan,Roshan,Ravi,OPN,Usha Khanna,LP,KA?? Could not they compose one song to proove KK’s potential or did they think that KK didn’t have that potential.
Recalling the hilarious post in which the KKfan has mentioned of KK’s electrifying taans, I wonder why didn’t SDB use KK for ‘Kya se Kya ho gaya – Guide’.It was a Navketan production too, Isn’t it? And Devanand was a big fan of KK, It is his own personal opinion and we don’t have any problem with that but you know what when he was asked which is his favorite song he mentioned ‘Dil ka bhawar kare pukar’ by KK.Hahahaha
Dear Moderator: Please spare us from this re-cycled kishore kumar lover now called as a. raj.
he is a zealous persons as he cannot stand the popularity and standing of king of melody and timeless songs of mohd rafi.
please banish such sick persons from this beautiful site.
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai….
Mr.Raj:
We have had enough of you (and your ilk). Please spare us your KK praise. We know what KK is and how he compares to the other greats of the golden period of HFM. We don’t require a Raj to tell us about him. If you want to write something good/new about Rafisahab, please do; this site is meant for that. Otherwise go elsewhere, propogate your thesis and glorify your ‘Guruji’.
I don’t know who is ghantasala!!!!!!!!!but i want you KK fans please stop to compare Mohd Rafi with KK because KK is not in Mohd Rafi class that not say by me it said by SJ and many more who know about the music more than me and you.
why you don’t want to compare kk with ghantasala or mukesh or Mannay dey,
some of you Kk fan said that KK with Asha ji better than Mohd rafi with Lata ji!!!!!!!!!some of you said that Mohd rafi was workless in 1970’s and I hope that you know that Mohd rafi sang for more than 170 films in 1970’s but still he was workless!!!!!!!!!!??????actor like Dilip Kumar and Dev Anand they switch to KK but they lost there place without mohd rafi..RD Burman back to Mohd Rafi because KK was not able to gave him hit songs as Mohd rafi did..
Please compare SD Burman of 1950’s and 1960’s to SD Burman of 1970’s..
Please compare RD Burman of 1960’s and late 1970’s and RD of 1970 to 1976…
I think there is no music director in Bollywood who said that if KK not the singer I will not give the music but Madan mohan said that if Mohd Rafi will not sing I will not give music for this films(I hope you KK fans know that) shammi kapoor never went to KK but for Rejesh Khanna Mohd rafi sang many super hit songs…Naushand only used KK once and that was a mistake because he never used him again same as shammi Kapoor…..
Raj Kapoor used Mukesh ji but in his all films which he made there was one Mohd Rafi song and he said about mohd rafi the king without crown……
As Mannay Dey said once Naushand Ji asked him that people asking me who is the better singer Mohd rafi or Mannay Dey as Mannay dey said without thinking as said to Naushand say Mohd rafi because he is the best also he said mohd rafi is from 1 to 10
I don’t know why you KK fans like SD burman and RD burman as I know that the best music director was SJ if we put from 1 to 10 as music director I don’t think there will be RD name yes I agree that there will be SD Burman but SD Burman of 1960’s not 1970’s….
If we speak about the best music director in 1940’s I think he was Anil Biswas but he lost his place in 1950’s to not using Mohd rafi,In 1950’s was Naushand Ali was at the top as music director,1960’s was SJ and 1970′ was LP and all of them are mohd Rafi fans…..I agree also there was many other great music director…..
I don’t think any top music director said about KK as OP Nayar said about mohd rafi( if there was no mohd rafi there was no OP nayar).I don’t think that any top actor said about KK as Shammi Kapoor said about mohd rafi
PLEASE KK FANS stop to compare because all cards in our hand,jest to to KK site and write about his greatness….
KK was a great man who got four wife’s,KK was great never sang for Free,KK was great he changed his name and became a Muslim for a girl.
KK was a comedian and I think you KK fans are Joking
please KK fans be honest
Mykji, Guru Murthy sir:
Let me try and list 20 of my fav LP-Rafi songs (not in any particular order)
Jaanewalon zaraa
Roshan tumhi se duniya
Mera to jo bhi qadam hai
Bahosh-o-hawas
Ye jo chilman hai
Pathar ke sanam
Hui shaam unka khayal
Nafrat ki duniya
Khilona
Mere dost kissa
Aaj mausam
Mujhe mat roko
Dard-e-dil
Rahi manwa
Nazar na lag jaaye
Chahoonga mei tujhe
Ek banjara gaye
ek na ek din yeh kahani
Khush rahe tu sadaa
Pooche jo koyi mujhse.
contd…
Our messages are very brief – in such small messages only we are able to convey the essence of our intentions. For one message of kishore lover – 10 rafi lovers have to write to reply in that too lengthy messages. What a effort by rafi fans being undertaken to prove something ?
Dear Rafi lovers, (specially Mr. MYK ji)
Rafi fans are simply falling upon kishore supporters. You quote that rafi lovers quote facts while kishore lovers quote myths. Please go to encyclopaedia on rafi ji and see the report, his 28,000 songs claim has no evidence. it is a exagerrated claim by his fans. The available evidences shows that rafi sang only 4516 hindi film songs, 112 non hindi film songs & 328 private songs from 1945 – 1980 – What is this. Well, is this a fact or myth. Kishore’s songs have never been exagerrated.
The encyclopaedia further states about side lining of rafi’s career and rise of kishore as a popular playback singer.
Well, sabnavees ji,
You quote some singers names spb etc. who have praised rafi. Can you prove that spb etc. whether have said that other singers are not fit to stand before rafi. For instance, many ghantasala fans claim ghantasala to be greater than rafi. Did spb ever said that ghantasala is inferior to rafi – could you prove. Or p susheela or p b srinivas as you quoted did ever quote this. Simply praising rafi does not mean that other singers are not great. I understand from other true voice forum in one of the posts that rafi himself had praised ghantasala and quoted him as incomparable (than rafi himself). S Janaki from the south has praised kishore kumar as well equally. Lata has stated kishore to be great. Lata herself stands exalted with reference to comparison with rafi – she holds bharat ratna award for her contribution. Rafi fans started efforts for begging bharat ratna for rafi – that is the status now for once so called great rafi.
As Mr. kishore fan says (I am with him), rafi might have been popular in 50’s and 60’s – agreed ( we do not escape from facts), but in 70’s kishore dethroned rafi and enveloped his career as playback singer (the fact which rafi lovers quote as myth and do not want to accept at all) Rafi was not the numeroone from 70-80.
Well, with due regards to Kishore da for his great comedy, i believe his fans are far ahead of him in comic department, the posts by Kishore da’s fans in this forum only(forget about other forums) are enough to prove it. I second mr.myk, Kishore da fans, please spare us the comedy.
Those who are aware of full repertoire of both the singers, would never say that Kishore was ahead. Anyways, comparisons apart, i keep Rafi Sahab in top most priority, followed by the other greats: Talat Sahab, Kishore da, Manna da, Hemant Da, Mukesh Ji.
Mr.Myk, Mr.Cherian, Mr.Rafifan … Nice posts by all of you!!
Post 1192 Guruji Adaab Rafi !
Your question to Raj was right and these things ( Rajs provocation ) come like sores in the otherwise fruitful discussion of Rafi saab’s immortal long career of music which can never die….
He is forever in the hearts of true music lovers as long as the Sun,Stars,Moon and the good earth is with us…
Let us all Rafi Bakts like a true follower of our legend who is known for humbleness, gentleness and simplicity.. ingnore and forgive these imaginary few people who do not know Rafi. Iam sure they would not have heard most of the Classics of the evergreen 50s n 60s…..
ref post 1187
mr raj,
i think you are not aware of the song ‘ ham hain raahi pyarke hase kuchna boliye, jo bhi pyar se mila hum useeke holiye’ . this from Nau do gyarah the picture with dev anand & his wife kalpana kartick as the hero heroins. Kishore kumar is there from those days. he has not come during 70s just because of aradhana or rajesh khanna.
both kishore ji & rafi sahab are there since 50s. its the music directors requirements, tempo of the song & the availability of the singer the songs are recorded. you will aprreciate for 11 numbers of songs rafi sahab was playback for kishore ji, where kishore ji him self is a playback singer of repute. during that time kishore ji was very much available & also shooting for those movies.
we have to discuss the issue with rationality & not with any emotion.
under salil choudhury sahab’s direction kishore had to break his head to practise the song ‘ gujar jaye din’ from ‘ annadaata’ umpteen number of times due to the complex chord pattern. this complexity in chord pattern you can find in the antara of the song. i being a harmonica & key board player have found out. similarly rafi sahab had a tough time in maya where he was struggling to get ‘ jahan hain kadam tere’ under the same music director.that does not mean some one is good & the other not. let us not be emotional.accept the reality.
rafi sahab had sung a number of songs on charity while there is no word charity in the dictionary of kishore ji.
rafi sahab refused royalty & lata demanded it.
kishore ji used to keep the people in humour at the recordings. this was told by lata mangeshkar in shradhanjali . in the same way when rafi sahab used to enter for recording there is immence happiness in the vicinity as if a saint has stepped in.
its not only the singing but also the other extra human qualities which people posses & we adore them.
see the crowd when rafi sahab left. thousands & thousands in the heavy down pour. who was rafi sahab to them ? ? ? just a singer is it not ?
even now also why the teen agers are singing rafi sahab’s numbers in the competitions? is it not for melody, diction, clarity & range ?
as far as these four important factors for singing are concerned the only name arises from the lips of the celebrated playback singers s.p.balasubramanyam, p.susheela, suneeta, s.janaki, p.b.srinivas, sonu nigam & the famous music directors ilaya raaja & keeravani is mohammed rafi sahab.
look mr raj how much you compare how much you critisize a diamond will remain as a diamond only.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tV9IgUsFBU