True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
dear all…….
have you heard the name of kumar sanu, the singer with the nasal touch??
this singer overshadowed kishore kumar during his lifetime. Kishore then wanted to go back to khandwa, his hometown and retire peacefull. the family did not agree to it. he was upset, he died a broken man.
this is a piece of history.
binu nair,
Singhji, Raghavaji:
Please excuse me for replying late to your posts, I was on a holiday away from the internet and ‘far from the madding crowd’.
Let me make things clear. I never said or meant that Ghantasalaji is not ‘good’ enough to be compared to Rafisahab (nor did the Telugu friends of mine). Rather he is not ‘similar’ enough. Indeed the Telugu great can be compared on several counts with the ‘baadshah’. For onething, they were contemprories, both ruled their respective film industry, both were technically very sound while retaining the freshness and flexiblity to render light songs very well. However the South Indian great is ‘different’ from the baadshah in many aspects. Take for instance their respective voices- there is very little in common between the two, Rafisahab’s is a rounded, polished, smooth voice while Ghantasalaji’s is more of an earthy, natural, even rustic kind of voice (which is closer to Mannada’s or Mukeshji’s from HFM). And coming to the style, Ghantasalaji is more open-throated who throws the voice more while Rafisahab sings with restraint (as if he’s singing to please himself), sugar-coating each word. (Off course there are quite a lot of songs where Rafisahab throws his voice around and ‘punches’ it).
In terms of voice and style (along with all-round brilliance) it is Yesudas sir who’s closest to Rafisahab. It is natural too, considering the fact that Yesudas sir is a huge Rafi-bhakt and grew up listening to and singing Rafi-hits.
Dear Binu Sir
At first I thought of ignoring Sh Bose.His inaugural post employed classical vocabulary but on close reading I found that there was no substance in his observations. I found chinks in his technical assertions.A strong response was called for lest the uninformed should be misled to believe that sh bose’s assertions were true and here was one man who spoke from the advantage of classical knowledge.Sh Bose’s one point agenda was to demolish rafi sahib.I don’t know of any one,classicist or otherwise,who has said a word of criticism about man tadpat or o dunya ke rakhwale.but sh bose was rushing in where previously angels had feared to tread.we responded.sh bose dodged some of our pointed queries,made some ridiculous assertions like kishore was the best singer in the golden era,that mukesh couldn’t be treated as a better singer than kishore,that lata and even asha were indisputably better singers than rafi,that rafi lata duets were deliberately designed to facilitate and favour rafi.he tacitly agreed that rafi sang the duets better but presentd an excuse. all this was done to push forward the claim of another singer.who can quarrel with a person’s own preference?let him listen to anyone he likes.the problem arises when someone insults other listeners by denigrating the singers they like.here the motivated attack was not on rafi sahib.it was on the tastes of those who love rafi.nothing can be derogated from rafi sahib’s supremacy.time has tested it and found it invulnerable.
So Binu sir inspite of sh haldar’s advice we haven’t left the field and shall continue to combat the false prophets.
Mr Bose, I would have had some respect for you if you said that you loved Kishore Kumar and hence you preferred his songs over any other singers. However you have lost all integrity by your baseless and foolish comments.
It seems you are living in space and are unaware of the facts of this world. It is so typical of illiterate and foolish people to come to a default position where they want others to come to an agreement that let me not have my way and so do you so Saigal and Lata are the greatest.
With all due respect to Saigal Saab whom we all respect, he should not be bought in this discussion as he is the father of playback singing. Rafi took over the baton after Saigal passed away and took singing to such great hieghts that even Saigal Saab would have agreed that the student has surpassed the teacher. Lata, has eaten the humble pie and acceppted no one was or is better than Rafi.
Mukesh and Manda da along with Talat and to some extent Hemant da were the only singers that made a worthwhile contribution in the golden era of music that Rafi dominated hands on and without any peers. All these great singers have accepted with dugnity that Rafi was way ahead of them and a singer of rare quality and class.
Kishore Kumar was not even thought much about as a singer and had to find an acting career as no one thought much about him as a singer till Pacham and other Babu Musha”s overdosed us with his songs in the 70’s. Similar to what Nadeem Sharavan did for Kumar Sanu.
No doubt Kishore sang well but so did Mukesh, Talat, Mana, Hemant, Yesudas, Shailendra Singh but comparing them with king Rafi is futile and silly.
I would suggest since you have lost all your interity, please leave this discussion or accept that you are wrong and in future dont insult our intelligence with this kind of nonsense waffle.
My regards to Binu Bhai, haldar, myk and other rafians who I am meeting after quite some time.
dear visitor – ji (s.bose)
haldar saaheb ne kaha to is manoos ko jawab mat dena for some very valid reasons , but the urge to counter this counterfeit music lover – just can’t go away.
saighal saaheb ne mohd rafi saaheb ko “aashirwaad” diya tha, ye jaan lo huzoor, aur yahan par tumhara agenda try nahi kijiye-ga. na-paas (fail) ho gaya hai aap aur aise hi hoga , baar baar .
you have said that husanlal bhagatram desisted from using mohd rafi . pehle apna ” home work ” karke yahaan par aao. I will list the many “gems” of mohd rafi with the first duo of h.f.m, (which you may not even know) husanlal & bhagatram – very soon to brush your knowledge of hindi film songs.
meanwhile, please listen to some of the gems of talat mahmud (pure gold), manna dey (rare semi – classical numbers) mukesh (heart drenching numbers), sudha malhotra (beauty with words) . if you have not listened to the gems of these singers, and have not appreciated them, i will strongly say that – u have missed some of the beauties from life. more, these songs will enhance your musical tastes – many miles away from the “hoarse” voices you have heard so far.
meantime continue listening k.l.saighal – for he is the fountainhead of playback singing in h.f.m.
i consider him the father and mother of hindi film music. besides, he had a heart of gold – like our own mohd rafi and mukesh.
binu nair…. rafi foundation, mumbai.
Poor Kishore Kumar
The biggest enemies of KK are the self proclaimed fans of KK that have brought unto them the blot of being a fan club of a singer that never got out of the shadows of truly great singers like Rafi.
Kishore Kumar who himself thought of him a student of singing where Rafi is the only undisputed Principal. The laughing matter is that they keep on crying and lamneting the fact that Kishore was no where in 40’s, 40’s and 60’s as a singer, the time when the golden history of HFM was written. The era that saw by far the best male singer in Rafi and the best female singer in Lata.
Even Saigal who forecasted that Rafi was make History would have confesed if he was alive that Saigal himself could not achieve what rafi could and the songs of Rafi are a testament.
Kishore or anyone is nothing, they are small fries, who had a degree of success and without RD Burman’s conutinuos charities, KK would end up selling shoes in Kandwa.
Even in 70’s when the Bengali Brigade was pushing KK in and Rafi out, Rafi still managed to have the last laugh although by that time he was already the Don Bradman of singing.
It need 2 ears to realise the immaculate and great voice of Rafi, superior in every category, far far superior to KK or anyone.
KK was a jack of all and master of none, something which Kk fans should digest by now and realise that they cant change facts and history where in its annals, Rafi stands alone as the finest, purest and undisputed king of singing.
So stop insulting KK by bringing him in these discussions.
is there anything remotely equivalent in any other singer’s repertoire to rafi sahib’s: phool sa chehra chand si rangat chaal sharaabi kya kahie?
or main nighaahen tere chehre se hataon kaise lut gaye hosh to phir hosh mein aaon kaise.can even lata sing the way rafi does tauba tauba tauba voh nasha hai ki bataon kaise?
and there are hundreds of incomparable masterpieces by rafi while other singers excluding lata,rest on just a piffling of good songs which their acolytes keep citing again and again.
Rafi the voice of lovers, gift of GOD. This type personality creats after many centuries. The voice of Rafi is the thought of true lovers. May GOD give him paradise and remain happy ever.
To sing a song in style of Rafi is very difficult and still no body created just like Mohammed Rafi.
Love to Rafi and Nothing without LOVE.
ref mail 1136,please be guided by mail 1126
I urge all knowledgeable Rafians on this forum not to pay attention to such people who are ignorant, blind, and have less knowledge. It would be better if we spent our time discussing other fruitful things vis a vis Rafi-saab. No one can be compared to Rafi, and we as his fans don’t need to prove anything to anyone, because we know he is the greatest of all time. It’s only fans of other singers (mostly Kishore fans), who always want to compare their idols to Rafi because of their jealousy, insecurities and so forth about Rafi being the greatest of all time, when they themselves clearly know that Rafi is the greatest of all time.
Mr. Haldar, Mr. XXX, Mr. Dhani Ram, Mr. Nair, and all other Rafians,
I was listening to this gem “Dil ka dard nirala” from Kaise Kahoon composed by Dada Burman. What an absolutely gorgeous song, with excellent orchestration and a wonderful melody. SD shows off his Mozart touch here, the violins are fantastic. This song is filmed on Biswajeet, and there is another song from the same film “Zindagi tu jhoom le zara”, where there is an excellent underlying guitar along with the main rhythm, something that became Pancham’s trademark. S-J also used the guitar as the rhythm accompaniment to good effect as well. The saxophone is excellent in that composition, most probably played by Manohari Singh.
What are your views on the above two songs ?
———————————–
The Saigal song “main kya jaanu” is what you would call “songs that Rafi could have sung in his sleep”. There is nothing remotely great about the song. I can’t believe this dude has listed such a song for comparison purposes. Atleast list better songs if you want to compare them to songs of Rafi. But then again, no one will be able to list songs by other artists similar to Rafi songs, because Rafi songs are in a league and class of their own, in terms of brilliance and skill.
Rafi has many songs like the Saigal song and others, and a countless number of tougher and better songs with rapid scale changes etc. On the other hand, take a song like “Likhar tera naam zamin par” from Laila Majnu, composed by Jaidev after MM passed away, no singer (including Saigal and Kishore) had the ability to sing such songs, and no singer has such songs in their repertoire. This song and many others by Rafi are like a benchmark, a litmus test for singers, to prove their worth. There are so many scale changes in that song, and very high notes as well, that it would have left any other singer scared and breathless. Jaidev, like S-J was known to have deep or heavy scales in his songs, the likes of which only Rafi and Lata could do full justice to.
LOL I’m laughing at some bias-minded dude comparing anyone and for that matter Kishore and Saigal to Rafi, two singers who were no where near Rafi. Every singer was no where near Rafi, as Rafi was far ahead of them all, its very very clear to see that, and its already been proven. Only ignorant and blind people will disagree, and not see this, and come up with such nonsense, illogical and silly statements, that don’t make sense at all.
I’m not sure if such people think that others on this forum are stupid, but I think they do think that, or they wouldn’t be making such hilarious comments. There are very knowledgeable people here who don’t have time for such crap, so this dude should take his nonsense elsewhere to other ignorant fools.
As Binu-ji mentioned, let’s continue enjoying the comedy from such people. It’s ok to have an opinion, but no one has the right to alter the truth or claim opinions as facts when they are totally wrong. Especially when someone makes a comment like “it is not easy as it appears to prove that rafi was a “better†singer than kishore” when it obviously is very easy, and has been done, and its a fact that Rafi was a countless number of times better than Kishore and any other singer. It’s a waste of time debating with someone who says such things, I hope you all see what I mean.
The truth is, Rafi is the greatest singer of all time, the first and last word in singing, and the benchmark, and nothing anyone says or does will change that.
this surajit bose poses to be lover of semi-classical songs, music and k.l. saighal and kishore kumar. but, kishore kumar and k.l.saighal both do not have many or any semi-classical songs to their names.
what to do ? pick holes in semi – classical songs of the king of melody and the singer of all seasons – the undoubtable mohammad rafi saaheb.
baat chalat naahi chunri & mana re tu kaahe na dheer dhare is an example where he wants to pin point errors but doomed to fail. but, try he will to accomplish his sinister mission.
like some of the elderly people (which i have witnessed in kerala) who enjoy a sumptuous, feast, eat atleast four varieties of payasam (sweet kheer) apart from having/enjoying the avial (assortment of vegetables cooked in coconut juice with a tinge of coconut oil – poured over it just when it is cooked), the three types of saalan (sambar, rasam, dal with pure ghee) and ten other assorted special vegetable makes along with papads, dahi, plantain chip wafers etc. etc. – and then sit one foot raised and say ” in one of the curries, the salt was more or the sugar in one of the kheers – was little more than expected “.
it’s onam time – the season of festivals and hence these delicacies come to my mind and the peoples behavious after a good feast .
coming back to surajit bose, i am remembered of the few old veterans who after enjoying a sumptious feast criticises the food just like this unwelcome visitor who wants to bring shortcomings in the rendition of mohd rafi songs – since his own h.m.v. has “no” songs worth mentioining in most of the music genres which the people listen, discuss and want to listen – again and again.
as i said earlier in a free discussion or a feast, one has to tolerate such senile men – such as the fault finders of the great feast and the self styled and deplorable commentators such as surabjit bose.
binu nair, rafi foundation, mumbai, binus2000@hotmail.com
Your post 1135 – bose bhai,
Bose bhai, your post 1135, I have heard the saigal number. pl. excuse me, as my friend Mr. MYK says, it is only a joke, if you state that saigal ji can be compared to rafi ji. saigal ji’s voice is nasal melody and not true melody. Rafi ji’s melody is the true melody and there is no dispute about it. Saigal cannot be compared to rafi ji as rafi ji is miles ahead of saigal ji. This holds true even in case with kishore ji also.
Singh bhai – post 1120 of yours
The professor number – aiye gulbadan – one of the evergreen true melody number of rafi ji – you have made me heard – hats off to you bhai – what a melodious song by rafi ji.
Other numbers posted by you of ghantasala (telugu number), kishore and k j yesudas – good numbers. But fine, the ghantasala number outshines the other ones, great melody similar to our rafi ji’s performance.
Dear rafi lovers especially my following friends,
posts – rafi lovers
1120 – singh ji
1101 – raghavan ji
1099 – anil ji
1100 – binu nair ji,
My Post -1098 , I am extremely grateful and thankful to all of you for responding to my post 1098. Thanks for your views.
Singh ji, Your post 1120 is quite enchanting. Rafi ji’s numbers deewana hua badal from kashmir ki kali and he gulbadan from professor are mind blowing. I was longing to hear this melodious number from professor, what a great song – really melodious. Thanks again for the great numbers of the amar gayak rafi ji.
The ghantasala ji’s number is equally mind blowing and melodious – great singing – In this number ghantasala outnumbers the other singers mainly kishore kumar and k j yesudas whose numbers you have posted. K j yesudas song is good, but i felt ghantasala to be miles ahead than yesudas. This has been my personal feeling.
Raghavan ji and singh ji – i could now realise the importance and meaning of your messages and i got reply to my post.
Binu nair ji – correct are your words , rafi ji is beyond comparison. After hearing raghavan and singh ji, i feel the same for ghantasala ji also ( though I prefer rafi ji’s voice the most)
Anil ji, – thanks for your response.
Bose ji, – What a great essays you are posting on kishore da. But sorry sir, hear the great numbers of rafi ji from post 1120 of singh ji, kishore is miles behind rafi. Even the southern great ghantasala is miles ahead of kishore ji. If you hear the professor number of rafi ji, he gulbadan, you will note what is melody of rafi ji vis – a – vis kishore da.
sanjay arora:
regd. post 1134, i guess you missed reading the entire post of mine at 1118. i have replied to your query there in the second half of the post.
surajit:
thanks for taking the trouble to actually listen to saigal and giving an honest opinion. regarding songs of saigal that involves scale changes, there are a few. some are not very obvious unless you are familiar with his tonal range and voice. however, here is one such song that is one of my favourites (unless you have heard it already and were not particularly impressed):
http://www.kundanlalsaigal.com/Audio/Zindagi_1940-KLSaigal-MainKyaJanunKyaJaduHai-KidarSharma_PankajMullick.mp3
watch for the amazing control with which he scales from madhyam to taar saptak, in a song that is swifter than madhya laya.
listen, specifically, to this section in the song:
… jab nain mile,
nainon ne kaha,
naino ne kaha
ab nain baseeeeeennge nainon mein …
as much as i am a fan of kishore, i enjoy most of rafi’s songs as well (particularly, from the ’50’s to mid-60’s).
enjoying songs of both kishore and rafi are not mutually exclusive events. here are some of my favourite rafi songs, in addition to those you have listed:
Aaj ki raat badi shokh badi natkhat hai (Nai Umar Ki Nai Fasal)
man re tu kahe na dhiir dhare (chitralekha)
Tum Ek Baar Mohabbat Ka Imtihaan To Lo (Babar)
Maayoos To Hoon Vaade Pe Tere (Barsaat Ki Raat)
tute hue khwaabon ne (madhumati) – one of the songs where rafi shows very good control at low pitch (mandra)
udhar tum haseen ho, idhar dil jawan hai (mr. and mrs. 55 – a duet)
hum bekhudi mein tum ko pukaare (kala pani)
apni to har aah ek toofan hai (kala bazaar)
my basic criticism of rafi stems from the fact that it is not easy as it appears to prove that rafi was a “better” singer than kishore. most people only make a superficial analysis of kishore’s songs given that most of his songs fall outside, what you would call, the conventional musical structure. if you peer deeper and actually care to listen to his singing, you will come to appreciate his superb voice control and depth.
further, there are songs where kishore did demonstrate an ability to produce fast paced taans. one such song is “Log kehte hain main sharaabi hoon”, where he pulls off a decent “quip” at ” … tune bhi shaayad yehi soch liya haaaaaaaaaaaaa”. if you think of it, this was in 1984 – 3 yrs before his death. at his peak, he could do much better, but this is just a hint to his potential as regards those kinds of songs.
REF MAIL 1119,YOU HAVE STILL NOT REPLIED TO MY QUESTION,
IT IS CONFIRMED THAT THERE IS NO REPLY
hi all : kishore kumar was a jolly good person, a nice singer and a very sensible person. i had the occassion to meet him and talk to him for exactly three minutes in abu dhabi minutes before a concert – and those few minutes are very cherishable for me. i heard him live only once and it was a great evening – by the seaside of a five star beach resort.
I have heard mohd rafi saaheb on three occassions, live. i have not spoken to him – but i was lucky in a way; i spotted the king looking very animatedly at us at the shanmukhananda hall minutes before lighting from his car , (we had reached very early for the show) and the melody king was keenly observing his fans.
these moments are unforgettable. but i am writing this to make a point that this intruder in the form of a music lover has galvanised mohd rafi lovers and his efforts to prop up kishore kumar (his favourite singer) has come a cropper.
more comments later and let’s enjoy his hilarious notes for the time being.
binu nair.
I just realized that I pasted the first part of my last reply twice. My apologies for doing so.
I would like to add a bit more to my reply on the following statement below:
“kishore’s best period was in the ’50’s and ’60’s but he was still very good in the 1970’s. in the ’50’s and ’60’s his voice was very supple and smooth, very flexible. in the 1970’s his voice became more “heavy†with more bass. it was suited for rdb’s songs.â€
LOL Kishore’s best period in the 50’s and 60’s ?. You must be out of your mind, which ofcourse you are but making such claims shows how pathetic your case is. I agree Kishore’s voice was better in the 50’s and 60’s, but still he was no where near Rafi in anything.
Also, Kishore’s best period in his career was in the 70’s, however even in his best period, more than half of his songs are trash and nothing great. Overall, he sang a higher percentage of quality songs in the 50’s and 60’s compared to the 70’s. After everything is said and done, his talent, repertoire and skills can never be compared to Rafi, Lata, Asha, Mukesh etc. because he falls below them in all those categories and more. These four singers and many others are much greater than Kishore.
I would like to add a bit more to my reply on the following statements below:
“kishore’s best period was in the ’50’s and ’60’s but he was still very good in the 1970’s. in the ’50’s and ’60’s his voice was very supple and smooth, very flexible. in the 1970’s his voice became more “heavy†with more bass. it was suited for rdb’s songs.â€
LOL Kishore’s best period in the 50’s and 60’s ?. You must be out of your mind, which ofcourse you are but making such claims shows how pathetic your case is. I agree Kishore’s voice was better in the 50’s and 60’s, but still he was no where near Rafi in anything.
Also, Kishore’s best period in his career was in the 70’s, however even in his best period, more than half of his songs are trash and nothing great. Overall, he sang a higher percentage of quality songs in the 50’s and 60’s compared to the 70’s. After everything is said and done, his talent, repertoire and skills can never be compared to Rafi, Lata, Asha, Mukesh etc. because he falls below them in all those categories and more. These four singers and many others are much greater than Kishore.
“sdb used rafi very sparingly until he composed for guru dutt in “pyaasa†(by then sdb was already famous, having composed for most of dev anand’s films and he used mainly kishore kumar and hemant kumar).â€
SDB also used Talat for Dev, so it was a mix of Talat-Hemant-Kishore for Dev early on before SD switched to Rafi for the evergreen actor, with Hemant and Manna coming in here and there. Rafi has by far sung the best songs for Dev Anand under SD and in general.
Manish mere dost,
Please, please tone down! I’m not telling you, I’m asking. The visitor never insulted you in any way. He is free to believe as he wants and so are you. Each to his own. I don’t want this thread getting closed as it is so **interesting**! What a great read! I got to listen to some great new songs that Surajit and Sudip posted (songs from Devar and Naya Andaaz were awesome! Thank you both).
I will contribute more tomorrow but for now, I leave you guys with a beautiful Rafi-Kishore duet from Waqt Ki Deewar! Please no comparisons (not even applicable in this song). Just listen to and enjoy the music! An excellent picturisation too by Sanjeev Kumar and Jeetendra!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1E9YKMGBhc
– Manish Kumar
Rafi does full justice to “Baat Chalat Nayi” and sings beautifully, either Bose can not, or does not want to see this, even though its fully apparent, and he does not want to admit this fact.
Considering Rafi was up against a specialist classical singer, and he himself wasn’t a specialist classical singer, Rafi did a fantastic job. Listen to the end when Rafi sings the taans and pulls at the end, something the specialist classical singer and any other specialist classical singer would not have been able to do. No wonder the doyen of classical music Pandit Gyan Prakash Ghosh rated Rafi as the best exponent of classical songs, and here this Bose dude is trying to say otherwise and teach us rubbish with his posts. Ofcourse no matter what Bose or anyone says, it won’t change the fact that Rafi is the best exponent of classical songs and the best singer of all time. We know what Bose is saying is rubbish, which is why I urge Rafi fans out there not to listen to his trash and just ignore it.
Ofcourse, we don’t need anyone or any music personality to say that Rafi was/is the greatest in singing, as well as in classical songs, and any other genre. Its very obvious by just listening to his songs, and listening to him sing that he was/is the greatest in general and in every genre. However most music personalities have mentioned that Rafi is the greatest of all time, and that says everything in itself.
This is the genius of Rafi, no matter if he sang a classical song, a ghazal, a bhajan, a qawwali etc. he would be better than specialists in those fields. Rafi was not a specialist in one field, but he was an all-rounder, and could be the best in any field/genre, and this is why he is the greatest singer of all time.
great music must have at least the following qualities in which rafi surpasses all other singers:
1.melody:lata is rafi’s equal
2.modulations of voice:rafi has no equal
3.diction:rafi has no equal in clarity of diction and effectiveness of articulation
4.range:lata equals rafi
5.feeling:rafi has absolutely no equal in conveying feelings appropriate to the song
talking about mukesh again:there is a tendency to underrate him.But he is absolutely in the top bracket for songs like the following and many many more:
1.bhooli hui yaado mujhe itna na satao.ab chain se rehane do meire paas na aao
2.mujhe tum se kucch bhi na chaahiye mujhe meire haal pe chhod do
3.saranga teri yaad mein
4.nain dwaar se man mein voh aa ke tan mein aag lagaaye
5.mujh ko is raat ki tanhai mein awaaz na do
6.voh subah kabhi to aaye gi
7.jhoomti chali hawaa yaad aa gayaa koi
8.teri dunya mein dil lagta naheen
9.aa laut ke aaja meire meet tujhe meire geet bulaate hain
10.mujhe raat din yeh khayal hai voh nazar se mujh ko giraa na de
Lastly it must be said to sh ghantsala’s credit that his shiv sankari has no equal in indian film music
Surajit Bose — you are the only one here who is illiterate and doesn’t know how to read and analyze. In fact, you are living your life in denial. It’s outright hilarious how you have presented alibis for Rafi’s superiority over both Lata & Kishore — the comment that Lata gets dominated only because her pitch is 2 notes lower than Rafi. Stop giving excuses, and just accept the facts that Rafi is the most complete playback singer.
What is crystal clear is that you are a person who is full of garbage & s***. You are biased and jaundiced, and that’s why you can’t accept the facts as they are. You will find excuses and alibis for everything, and its only because you are a jaundiced soul. Instead of spending any more time getting slapped around and humiliated by people here, you should spend yout time getting seen by a psychiatrist to get rid of your pathetic biases whatever they are based on (region, religion, caste, personal complexes).
This is just a trivial musical discussion, but if we extrapolate it out a macro level — it is the biased, unobjective people like Surajit Bose who are a source of all evil in the world today.
“you have lost any credibility you had right there. you don’t have to believe me. ask any of your classically educated friends to listen to this song and ask their opinion.”
Lost my credibilty ?. The only one who has lost all credibility at all is you writing such nonsense on this forum. For you, our comments seems like we have lost credibility, but in fact we all know that the only person writing nonsense on this forum is you. Btw, I did ask my classically educated friends about this song, who have more knowledge than you will ever have in classical music, and they have the same opinion as me. Btw, I never believed you earlier and I never will, because what you’re saying defies logic, and is nonsense, and people like that will never go far in any matter.
Let’s proceed on to the other nonsense (yet again) that you wrote:
“1. kishore was doing fine. only, he wasn’t the number 1 singer then. there were rafi, mukesh, manna dey, hemant kumar, talat mahmood etc. obviously, the number of songs are divided across all of them. also, rafi didn’t truly dominate the ’50’s. it wasn’t until 1957-1958 that rafi started emerging as the premier singer in hindi films.
one could also ask the question as to why rafi didn’t dominate the 1970’s also ?”
Kishore was definitely not doing fine, he was struggling as a singer. If he was doing fine, he would have never gone into acting. By your token, you hardly know anything about Kishore and yet make such large statements. Rafi also did dominate the fifties (besides dominating most other times as too), once Baiju Bawra hit big time, he rose to the top, and took out Talat as the top singer of the time. You clearly don’t know what you are talking about.
Rafi was the only singer who dominated for a long period of time. The reason why he didn’t dominate the 72-76 period is because he cut down on his singing, and for various other reasons as well, so Kishore got the chance to rise (bet you didn’t know that). From 77 onwards, Rafi returned to the top and gradually took out Kishore. If those circumstances had not happened, then Rafi would have finished off Kishore quick time, but Kishore was lucky he got a chance to reach the top.
“2. out of those md’s, only OPN needed rafi to stand tall. SJ rose to fame through the voice of mukesh (barsaat, awaara), naushad was already an established md by the time rafi became famous (and he used talat and mukesh mainly until “baiju bawraâ€). the story is well known that he once caught talat smoking in his presence and he was hurt enough to stop using him.”
Nope, again wrong, if you take the total count of SJ’s songs from 1950-1960, Rafi has sung more for them followed by Mukesh (did you know that ?), sorry but you need to do your homework before posting such rubbish. It was Rafi and Mukesh with whom S-J became a name, and then mostly Rafi after through which they became an even greater name.
Most MD’s needed Rafi everytime to succeed in their career, and that’s a fact. Don’t make the excuse that if Talat had no smoked, Naushad would have continued with him. It was a matter of time before he would have made the switch to Rafi.
“sdb used rafi very sparingly until he composed for guru dutt in “pyaasa†(by then sdb was already famous, having composed for most of dev anand’s films and he used mainly kishore kumar and hemant kumar).”
The SDB story is interesting, it seems he knew of Rafi’s talent, but didn’t really make use of it early on, which was his loss. As it is, Kishore was his “mansaputra”, but he ranked Rafi higher than the rest, so there’s your answer. One MD or a few MD’s not using Rafi that much early on doesn’t take away from Rafi’s greatness and the fact that he’s the best singer of all time. What about Kishore ?. Hardly any MD’s used him later on, except SDB. What do you have to say to that ?. Don’t give the excuse “busy with acting”, its useless and won’t get you anywhere. Kishore wasn’t even considered a fourth option in the 50’s and 60’s, and Kalyanji once said that Kishore couldn’t sing the types of songs that were being made during those times. So if composers didn’t pay attention to Kishore in these decades, it shows Kishore wasn’t that talented of a singer.
“mm didn’t stick to any one particular singer. in fact, even roshan, during his early years, used mukesh and kishore kumar more than rafi. it wasn’t until 1956 that roshan gravitated towards rafi.”
Roshan hardly used Kishore early on, it was a combination of Mukesh, Rafi and others. Kishore and Roshan only had 7 songs together (in their entire association) which all came early on, and you’re saying he used Kishore more than Rafi early on, when Rafi sang more for him than Kishore even in that early period ?. What planet are you from ?. This is what I mean by its a waste of time debating with a person like you who clearly doesn’t know what they are talking about. MM used Talat and Rafi early on.
“rdb used rafi in “teesri manzil†mainly because the hero was shammi kapoor. after that he used both until “kati patang†in 1970. after that, he mostly stuck with kishore.”
RDB not only used Rafi because Shammi was the hero, he used Rafi because he was the best, and also wanted to make a name for himself. RD used both until kati Patang ?. Let’s see, except for Abhilasha (one song), and Padosan (Kishore acted), and PKM (one song), its all Rafi until Kati Patang, so your observation is wrong. Also, RDB and Shakti Samantha wanted Rafi for Kati Patang as mentioned by Shakti, but Rafi was out of town so your observation is wrong again. RD also mostly never stuck with Kishore after. “Mostly” would imply that he hardly used Rafi after that which is not true. Do your research before you post comments.
“kishore’s best period was in the ’50’s and ’60’s but he was still very good in the 1970’s. in the ’50’s and ’60’s his voice was very supple and smooth, very flexible. in the 1970’s his voice became more “heavy†with more bass. it was suited for rdb’s songs.”
LOL Kishore’s best period in the 50’s and 60’s ?. You must be out of your mind, which ofcourse you are but making such claims shows how pathetic your case is. I agree Kishore’s voice was better in the 50’s and 60’s, but still he was no where near Rafi in anything.
Rafi was ofcourse used by most MD’s early on (used with others spread across, or mostly him) before most totally made the switch to him. After Baiju Bawra, he became the top singer, displaced Talat in a flash. Only SDB waited until 1957 to make the switch for reasons only known to him. If he didn’t, they wouldn’t have been able to do well against the competition.
You have completely lost any credibility you had (a long time ago), and now you’re continuing to hit your head against a brick wall. Why don’t you just quit while you’re at it and stop making a fool of yourself even more ?. It will save you more embarrasment in the future. Everything you say is being (rightfully) torn a part left and right, not only by me, but by others, because its all hogwash, and only your opinion, but you seem to want to continue to make a fool of yourself. Anyways, if you like making a fool of yourself, then please continue. Your posts are funnier than “comedy circus” that comes on satellite tv.
Mr. Bose, if KK was more talented and famous than Rafi Saheb, why he didn’t surpass in singing more songs than Rafi Saheb? Mohammed Rafi Saheb remained on the top till 31st of july, 1980. Leave Rafi Saheb, even Mukesh ji was better than KK.
Dear Mr. Bose, I would like to comment a few lines on your remarks on Rafi-Kishore issue. No matter how spontaneous and natural singer Kishor was or for that matter how trained and professional Rafi was, I would like to say that no othar singer could dominate the Bollywood Music World for long twenty years as Rafi did, no other singer could sing the varities of songs as rafi did, no other singer could sing songs parallel to songs like. ‘Tu ganga ke mauj’ or ” O duniyan ke rakhwale” or ” Ay mohabbat Zindabaad”. Rafi is the all time greatest Bollywood film singer.
Dear Mr. Bose, I have a few points. The reason you have put forward for Rafi’s superiority over Lata in the duets is that Lata’s pitch is two notes lower than Rafi. I disagree with that. It is the versatily of Rafi’s voice and his “Gayaki” that dominated his counterparts, whether male or female. High pitch might have contributed to Rafi’s advantage, but not as the single factor that you try to insist upon. Except Rafi, Lata dominated all her counterparts, whether male or female not because of her pitch, but due to the sweetness of her voice, her unique style of singing, her rich classical background etc.
Rafi was a versatile genius. He could sing any type of songs, classical, light, romantic, patriotic, sad. His voice could reach to peak of the Himalayas and could also come down as deep as the ocean in the next moment. You can not brand him in any particular type of singing. He could sing all type of songs. It may be there were purer classical songs than ” Man Tadapat Hari Darshan” or “O Duniyan ke rakhwale” rendered by other artists but the impact these two songs created in hearts of the people was far more than many classical songs sung by others. These two songs has become history.
Rafi can not be typed as a pure classical singer as Amir Khan, or classically inclined singers as Manabendra Muhkerjee or Manna Dey, nor he can be typed as a ghazal singer as Mehdi Hasan or Ghulam Ali. But he sang all type of songs. But whatever he sang with his tremendous delivery it became the best.
Surajit:
I have been listening to Saigal songs since morning.. Amazing voice control…I can well understand where Kishore got his inspiration from. I think Saigal and Noor Jehan’s influence on Indian film music is undeniable. However, you have been judging Saigal and Rafi on different scales. In one post you mentioned that Rafi had issues with fast switching western tunes and rythms. Can you tell me on which song Saigal was tested with a fast changing western tune? Forget western, I am yet to get one Saigal song which is faster then Madhya Laya. I am not challenging you because my knowledge is limited on Saigal, but I will be glad if you can point me to one.
By your own admission, Rafi never changed the fundamental structure of a song. I look at that positively, which means he dared to venture out of his comfort zone and stick to what has been sought by the music director. That’s why he was a favorite of music directors (To quote Naushad, “With him you will get what you want”). He could adapt to any genre and become a different singer. The Rafi of “Kabhi khud pe” is different from the Rafi of “Main jat yamla” which is again different from the Rafi of “Tumne mujhe dekha”..Rafi could have spent a lifetime singing only “Abhi na jao chodkar” or “Theheriye hosh mein aa loo” (soft, mid octave songs where he was unparalleled), but he did not.. With 1000 “Abhi na jao chodkars” we would not even have this debate..
I agree with your assertion that Rafi sticks to the basic structure of a classical raga. I observed it many times. Unlike Manna who plays more liberally with the taans and layas. This was evident in lot of songs including http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-89tuRr1mU (btw this is a pre-Padosan version of such a rivalry). But I never looked at that negatively. I thought there is a distinct influence of Abdul Wahid Khan in that. Rafi’s Alaap’s were always steady, deep and yet melodious. Major emphasis was on the purity of swars.
I think Manna’s style is more free flowing and maverick.. But I would not push over Rafi just on that. Unfortunately with Rafi, songs like “O duniya ke rakhwale” have always topped the charts.. I personally do not go by the popular acceptance of a song. Therefore my favorite Rafi (semi)classicals are:
Raha gardishon mein hardam (Do badan)
Kisiki yaad mein duniya (Jahan Ara)
Main nigahen tere chehre se (Aap ki parchhaiyyan)
Among the non-film ones my favorite is Dard-e minat kash. You can listen to this Ghalib ghazal here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c213rkrQfA&feature=related
In these songs, you may want to point out that Rafi did not alter the basic structure of the song (again a distinct influence of the Kirana gharana).. But who cares? If the swars are so pure, that’s 99% of the battle won..
Hi Bose,
do u know that there is 7 sur in Music but people said about Mohd Rafi in his voice there are 8 sur……..
My dear great friend Anil ji, 1099 post pl.
I admire your taste of music. I am a strict admirer of rafi ji as well as true music lover of all other greatest playback singers, namely, ghantasala, kishore kumar, mannadey, k j yesudas, spb to state mainly. All are great singers with rafi sahab enjoying the maximum popularity. I really want to congratulate you and admire your personal choice as you mentioned yesudas ji as another rafi sahab. It came as a surprise to me, because you have thrown your personal choice after so many days, though you were a regular columnist to this acclaimed rafi ji;s home page. But not only in this page and even in other sites also, i have seen that in maximum cases, with an exception to ghantasala none has been compared to rafi ji anywhere and at any point of time. Because it is a well known fact that none can be compared to rafi and nobody has to the courage also to really compare with rafi ji. Hence i was surprised to note your comment on jesudas ji with reference to the rafi title. To keep up your statement, It would be interesting, if you could kindly try to prove (i feel it cannot be proved) if jesudas ji stands on par with rafi ji, by posting some great songs of jesudas ji, – because, it makes sense to say that ghantasala fans have proved their statements and they are not baseless. So unless you prove, it will be difficult to accept your statements. You were mentioning about your telugu friends, It will be difficult for me to believe your statement, if it is true i can say it is similar to some hindi people here who are challenging rafi ji. Moreso, i too have many telugu friends who are also great rafi fans ( rafi fans are everywhere and are in maximum) and i have heard a lot from them that rafi ji is beyond comparison, similarly their idol ghantasala is also beyond comparison, and if any comparison can be made, it can be made only between these two greats and none else can ever in dream also dare to seek comparison with the great rafi. This you have seen in this site also in the past many pages.
I leave the above discussion for your sense and as i already mentioned in my previous posts continuously, i again state that I am an admirer of all great playback singers in the country.
And with the permission of the kind moderator here, i always strive and wish to share great music with all my dear true music lovers, whoever has sung it but it is only the music that is the aim. My wish is to keep all the music lovers happy and to make them enjoy the real taste of music always. Let us enjoy some great numbers by legends.
Rafi ji’s great numbers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beqTRIpoos8 (deewana hua badal)
The great rafi’s melodious number from professor – he gulbadan(1962)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMI1ZZUGWcc
Kishore kumar’s great duet (kora kagaz tha yeh man mera)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql1-jjEPErw
A ghantasala mind blowing extraordinary melody number (1962)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS6aNkl3BHs
(Mr. anil specially to post views after hearing the same)
A k j yesudas number
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IkPplnMHkE
Mr. Raghavan ji,
Your views on qawali number by rafi ji in telugu is indeed correct. The number by rafi ji is quite great. But you compare the same with ghantasala ji in his later stages which i feel is not fair. I request you to hear a great qawali number in telugu from film bandipotu (In 1963) by ghantasala ji, which ranks on par with rafi ji. (this para – i have got from a telugu friend)
Mr. suprajit bose ji,
I respect your views on kishore da. He too was an accomplished singer in his own style. As i said, i am a lover of all great playback singers in india. But i concur with the majority opinion that rafi ji is the personality which received maximum admiration.
sudip,
i am not sure if kishore (or rafi, for that matter) would have been able to replicate Parveen Sultana’s version of the song. it was very, very close to being a classical song. in fact, it can be considered as a very good bhairavi thumri.
parveen sultana had an excellent mandra (low) range. the pitch in which she sang would’ve been a trifle too low for rafi. kishore’s voice was more suited for that range.
also, the story goes that when kk knew that there was going to be a female version of the song, he wanted to get his version “out” before hers.
in any case, it’s interesting to discuss with other music fans like you who have valid inputs to make and who make rationale arguements.
myk said:
“baat chalat naii chunari rang daari†was sung in an excellent way by Rafi, your analyzing of the song is rubbish, Rafi never did what you mentioned, and he sang it in a beautiful way, which showed his great classical skills. ”
you have lost any credibility you had right there. you don’t have to believe me. ask any of your classically educated friends to listen to this song and ask their opinion.
Manish:
you said: “Lata is an absolutely great singer but she had many weaknesses too — just randomly thinking even in a simple song like the title song of Dil Tera Deewana, she is clearly struggling, while Rafi is dominating her as he did in almost all their duets. ”
i hope you know how to read before you post. because otherwise you wouldn’t miss this point i made – “it is surprising how many of you point to the duets or tandem songs of rafi and lata to compare the two. Lata’s pitch is about 2 notes lower than Rafi. Most duets and tandem songs are composed closer to Rafi’s natural pitch. ”
Sanjay:
1. kishore was doing fine. only, he wasn’t the number 1 singer then. there were rafi, mukesh, manna dey, hemant kumar, talat mahmood etc. obviously, the number of songs are divided across all of them. also, rafi didn’t truly dominate the ’50’s. it wasn’t until 1957-1958 that rafi started emerging as the premier singer in hindi films.
one could also ask the question as to why rafi didn’t dominate the 1970’s also ?
2. out of those md’s, only OPN needed rafi to stand tall. SJ rose to fame through the voice of mukesh (barsaat, awaara), naushad was already an established md by the time rafi became famous (and he used talat and mukesh mainly until “baiju bawra”). the story is well known that he once caught talat smoking in his presence and he was hurt enough to stop using him.
sdb used rafi very sparingly until he composed for guru dutt in “pyaasa” (by then sdb was already famous, having composed for most of dev anand’s films and he used mainly kishore kumar and hemant kumar).
mm didn’t stick to any one particular singer. in fact, even roshan, during his early years, used mukesh and kishore kumar more than rafi. it wasn’t until 1956 that roshan gravitated towards rafi.
rdb used rafi in “teesri manzil” mainly because the hero was shammi kapoor. after that he used both until “kati patang” in 1970. after that, he mostly stuck with kishore.
kishore’s best period was in the ’50’s and ’60’s but he was still very good in the 1970’s. in the ’50’s and ’60’s his voice was very supple and smooth, very flexible. in the 1970’s his voice became more “heavy” with more bass. it was suited for rdb’s songs.
Dear Sh Bose
ref:1103
1. in early 1950s Mohd Rafi delivered a death-blow to the kind of whining that used to pass for film music.saigal sahib was swept away in the rafi tide and has never been heard again since then.He belongs to an extinct species.
2. Sh haldar was downright honest and absolutely correct in tallking about mukesh.He said that sometimes mukesh gets besura.you ignored his sometimes.where is mukesh besura in the classical based : saranga teri yaad mein nain hue bechain.do you think kishore could have rendered it equally soulfully and soothingly? is there anything equally good in kishore oevre?
mujhko is raat ki tanhaai mein awaaz na do.all connoisseurs of music opine that mukesh version is much better than that of lata. where in your opinion does mukesh falter in this song?
all singers have their flaws.lata has them.you know that some mds in the beginning were not ready to give her a break because they thought she had a thin voice.she can’t sing a thumri or kajra like begum akhtar.if we find this thing missing in rafi and that in mukesh but find everything perfect in kishore,it doesn’t do.what was kishore’s output from 1950 to 1970 which you yourself acknowledge as the golden era of hindi film music.now if we leave our prejudices aside and look at it objectively,rafi dominated all the way,lata following at close heels and mukesh,talat,hemant and manna making impressive contributions.I have lived through that era and i know what rafi was in those days.kishore was not even considered a singer.Kishore came into limelight in 70s but you yourself know what happened to film music then and thereafter.
3. spend a day listening to a cd of 100 songs of mukesh and repeat it with kishore.the first will enchant you at the end of the day and the latter will give you a headache.if you think the other way round,we have simply irreconcilable tastes.
4.”it’s not that he is not equal to the task of rendering the taans. the fact is that it is clearly evident that rafi struggles to adhere to the structure of the raga or the “pakadâ€.
you concede that rafi can render taans but his pakad is weak.here is where personal judgement and bias enter.you cite manna dey.in rafi manna duet :tu hai meira prem devata,rafi in no way plays a second fiddle to manna.manna himself has acknowledged that rafi was ahead of him and so did his classically trained uncle kc dey.
5. “it is surprising how many of you point to the duets or tandem songs of rafi and lata to compare the two. Lata’s pitch is about 2 notes lower than Rafi. Most duets and tandem songs are composed closer to Rafi’s natural pitch. Lata had a great mandra (low) range which Rafi totally lacked.”
again to say that most duets are set to suit rafi’s voice is not to give rafi credit for singing them better than lata.your assertion contains a tacit acknowledgement that rafi sang the parallel songs and duets better than lata but you find an alibi for it. sir,you get offended by what we say in defence of rafi. but where rafi does better than lata,why have you to deflect it to some reason other than rafi’s virtuosity.that lata’s pitch is two notes lower than that of rafi is a news to us.lata begins moslty at a higher note than rafi.I cited:door basa lein dil ki jannat.where is rafi’ note higher.you say nothing to my charge that lata is quite often shrill.
6.”to me, the clearest distinction between the two is that rafi is a practiced singer, a rehearsed singer, while kishore is the more natural or gifted, spontaneous singer. and i am not expressing this view out of thin air.
your bias is quite apparent and palpable here.as a classicist,you should know the difference between a practiced singer,a rehearsed singer and the other one.practiced,rehearsed,spontaneous are all meaningless terms.do you think kishore sang anything without practice and rehearsal.was he given a song and told about the tune and in one minute he rendered it.Now what is it if not prejudice.the only thing is that rafi was better trained,better practiced ,more spontaneous and overall a much much better singer
7.you seem to give more importance to imrovisations and gimmicks.being classically trained for you alaap should have more value than yodelling.kishore yodels in a few songs and you think that it is a wonderful thing.if yodelling was so great it should have been in many many of his songs.it is only in a handful.on the other hand rafi sang divine alaap in about a hundred of his songs.it has no value for you.it is for this reason,if you forgive me ,that i believe that you employ your classical knowledge to advance your biases and prejudices which are not based on reason but instinct.
sour grapes surjit…..
for forty years or so mohd rafi gave a rich harvest of songs to music lovers and the hindi film industry. more that thirty years from the time he left, rafi’s songs “refuse” to lie low. they are evergreen and people flock to hear them live in many cities around the globe even from singers who are less than fifty per cent of what mohd rafi – could render/deliver.
but in a basket of fruits there can be a rotten apple. what we do with it? throw it out. surjit cannot stand the longevity of the songs rendered by mohd rafi as he is a kishore kumar fan. “its” a psychological condition for him to demean mohd rafi’s great contribution to indian music.
its a case of “sour grapes” and this attitude is bound to remain with him.
binu nair.,
Mr. Anil – your post 1099
With due respects to your post, i express my personal opinion (which has been based on my personal research) here.
The main article by swaminath iyer has included k j yesudas while writing about rafi ji’s greatness. Mr Arun’s question was why only ghantasala (who was much famous and great) is not mentioned when all the southern singers (including Bala murali krishna – the greatest classical exponent has been mentioned). I am sorry your answer shifts a bit from the track. I feel you will take my opinion here in a positive way.
Anil, I am a tamilian, living in Andhra Pradesh for the past 30 years. I am quite well versed with many tamil, telugu, malayalam as well as kannada songs. Each has his own personal choices. I have heard k j yesudas ji many times (including his many telugu as well as malayalam songs). He is also a great classical singer. But, without hurting your choice, I feel k j yesudas though great and classically trained, cannot be compared with ghantasala ji. His range lands along with the great BMK , Pbs etc. Not only K J Yesudas or any other southern singer, leave songs, none can sing any padyam or sanskrit slokam also anywhere even nearer to the extent of ghantasala ji. This has been uneqvivocally stated by k j yesudas himself and other southern singers namely p b srinivas, tms and the great spb. You hear Bhagavad gita by sri ghantasala, that alone is a testimony to your opinion. Such rendition does not exist anywhere. (Bhagavad gita has been sung by Bala murali krishna and spb also which is hardly 50% of ghantasala rendition.) I am sorry to hurt your choice but this is a fact. You hear the gita, you will know what ghantasala is. Moreover, I have read in many newspapers and many columns referring him as the Mohd. rafi of south for so many years. This is the first time i am listening this title to sri k j yesudas, by a k j yesudas fan (anil – you appear to be a malayali – hence i have respect for your personal choice. Hence no offences pl. to you) Pl read my post 1101 also. Mr. Anil, I have done a great research on all the playback singers, like swaminath iyer, and i personally feel, like many rafi fans here, that along with the greatest legend rafi, ghantasala leads the pack with other playback singers.
Anyhow, as i mentioned each has his own personal choices, but the majority opinion tilts towards my above view Mr. Anil.
O K let us talk about the legend of all times rafi ji. I have heard the great song of rafi ji singing live in the website – o duniya ke rakhwale. I am posting hereunder the same for the benefit of our dear music lovers. Pl. Enjoy rafi ji live singing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOTN6tVKLAM
Mr. Bose ji,
You appear to be a great fan of kishoreji who was an accomplished singer. While respecting your personal choices, I am sorry to state that rafi ji had an edge over kishore kumar. Kishore kumar ji rose to fame only after rafi ji had established the sound foundation for a great musical era in the bollywood filmdom which can be hardly replaced by anybody in the times to come. Simply to say, rafi is rafi and none can challenge or dispute that. You should take into account the originality aspect of greatest playback singers.
Rafi ji was the first person , i again repeat, the first major personality in Hindi playback singing who had established a sound foundation for the greatest playback singing. (period 1945 to 1980) Even saigal though former to rafi, did not have such great voice as rafi ji possessed. other singers in bollywood have simply no option but to follow him.
Same was the case with ghantasala in the south. He was the first personality to have established sound foundation for the southern music. He was responsible for the popularity of south indian music. Whole credit goes to him (Period 1944 to 1974)
These greatest legends popularity continues unabated till today i.e. even after their passing away in the 70’s. ( 3 decades have passed) This itself stands as a great testimony to these greatest legends. Mr. Anil to specifically note this fact.
Surajit:
“kishore is the more natural and gifted of the two. he is very open to changes in the song structure or tune. so much so that he incorporates them himself, impromptu”……..
Well…….Interesting….I cannot make a black and white judgment from this alone. Because, there are cases where Kishore sought changes because he could not render them. Take “Humen tumse pyar kitna” for example. Kishore himself suggested the simplified tune to RDB and the song went on to become a superhit (btw, I love the song)..Hats off to Kishore for being so innovative and understanding the pulse of the people. But does it necessarily elevate him as a singer? I doubt… On the contrary, it depreciates his singing prowess. Rafi, in his place might have reproduced the Parveen Sultana version which might or might not have gone on to become a hit..But he would be higher in my eyes as a singer..
It’s mind-boggling how anyone can put a singer like Saigal, and a singer like Kishore, or any singer at all, in the same breath as Rafi, it doesn’t make sense at all. Anyone who says such things hardly knows anything about music. It’s pointless to debate or even associate anyone in Rafi’s league or class, he was by far the greatest singer of all time and miles ahead of the rest.
Post 1103: Another rotten joke! KK is more gifted than Rafi Saheb. No one will believe you Mr. Bose. Better stay away.
nobody could have sung : “mana re tu kaahe na dheer dhare”,” Oh duniya ke rakhwale ” or Mana tadpat hari darshan ko and madhuban me radhika naache re – better than mohd rafi.
if this visitor is commenting on the minus points in the song then its done due to pure jealousy…… nothing more, nothing else.
poor guy , he is showing deficiencies in the songs which are crossing more than four decades of glory. we find such “illiterate critics” many a times and in a free world we have to live with people such as this “irritating bug”.
binu nair…. mumbai….
Dear Mr.Bose refer mail 1103,please stick to your words and refrain yourself from further writing ,but before that please answer two basic queations
1 ) where was kk from 1955 to 1972 ,he had already sung under likes of sajjad,roshan ( incidently the first duet of kk with the greatest rafi saab was in `malkin`).
2 ) why all the all time greatest mds like sj,opn,naushad,mm & even sdb & even rdb (required the greatest rafi saab for climbing the ladder),did not use kk when as per you during that best period of kk`s voice.
I had raised the same questions in my earlier mails also.
I am not so learned on music,but as a layman in the field of music ,please answer my two basic questions,otherwise you are also a nobody ( which is already confirmed ) in the field of music.
Hi all,
This Surajit guys is an imbecile & biased idiot with an inferior taste, and I implore you all to just ignore him. Only low-class people like him can think Saigal & Kishore to be singers on par with Rafi. And speaking about Lata, everybody MD worth their salt considered Rafi to be superior to Lata during the golden era of HFM. Lata is an absolutely great singer but she had many weaknesses too — just randomly thinking even in a simple song like the title song of Dil Tera Deewana, she is clearly struggling, while Rafi is dominating her as he did in almost all their duets. It doesn’t mean that Lata is not great — it just highlights the ultra-superior talent of Rafi who is/was the most complete singer to come out of Bollywood. Only mentally & musically challenged & biased imbeciles like Surajit don’t get that. Surajit has extremely low standards — just ignore him!
post 1103 : this person has come with “a one point agenda” and that’s run down mohd rafi – by every means.
he will quote k.l.saighal, mukesh, lata to serve his purpose. and he will add up to say kishore kumar was a natural singer, untrained etc… etc….
listen, rafi fans do not care about it. we love mohd rafi songs, we love songs of each and every singer (but we are choosy about it), and we do not need lessons in music from this writer for how much he may try, he will not sell his wares herein.
goodbye sir.
binu nair, mumbai
KK was definitely no genius in singing at all, I feel sorry for his fans who elevate him to a status that he doesn’t deserve at all. Mr. Haldar was right, ignore such people who post nonsense about ‘Saatwan Sur’. We are talking about a singer whom most around the world, past and present consider to be the greatest vocalist ever, which he was, and here comes a person trying to go against fact, and bring his status down to that of Kishore, as well as teach us classical music when there are so many here who have much more classical knowledge than him, how shameful.
I know many Kishore fans who are bias and blind, and Mr. Bose is one of them. It’s one thing to be subjective and opinionated, and its another to carry your opinions and views forward and alter the truth. Everyone has the right to an opinion, but no one has the right to alter the truth, which is exactly what mr. bose is doing, and he has not suceeded and never will, what a waste of time. Mr. Bose, you seem to be living in your own fantasy world, I feel sorry for you, may you find the right path one day and realize that there was no one close to Rafi and there never will be. He was and will remain the greatest singer of all time, whether you agree or not. Even your idol KK mentioned that and accepted that, yet you and his other fans are jealous and can’t seem to accept that, so you bring Rafi down, the only way you can let out fire, and let out your insecurities. As I said earlier, many KK fans are giving KK a bad name with such useless and nonsense posts.
Also, overall what Mr. Bose is saying makes no sense, and also the part about RD preferring Kishore. if RD fully preferred Kishore based on his supposed singing talents, how come he didn’t give him his qawwali’s, ghazals, or other classical songs ?. Those mostly went to Rafi and Bhupinder, and not Kishore. So much for Kishore’s singing talents in that aspect. ofcourse Kishore was hardly a great singer, he had severe limitations and drawbacks, something his fans (such as Mr. Bose) do not want to admit.
A person who boasts of classical knowledge, and goes around writing such nonsense, shows that they hardly have any knowledge at all. It’s all opinions, views, bias and nothing more. I feel sorry for such KK fans, the more they try and defend their case, the more their case drowns.
Mr. Bose your write-ups are not solid, full of lies, and only your views and not the truth, so for the sake of this forum, stop writing such trash. it would be better if you brought more sensible topics to the forum, something that doesn’t defy logic or go against fact.
it’s a waste of time for me and others to reply your posts which make absolutely no sense at all.
Mr. Bose,
Anyone who put Saigal in the same league as Rafi and who labels Rafi as an average classical singer or one who struggles in classical songs, is the one who doesn’t know anything about music or classical songs. Also, anyone who puts Kishore in the same league as Rafi also doesn’t know anything about music.
I will not reply to your points because they are all flawed. They may be true for you but its just your opinion. In those songs you mentioned, Rafi never struggled, I fail to see what you mean, it seems you have a huge bias against the greatest singer ever, which is why you are making such comments.
Rafi definitely had an excellent low range, listen to “Nav kalpana nav roop se” which is just one example of his excellent low range. ofcourse in the high range, no one could touch him.
“O duniya ke rakhwale” and “Man tadpat hari darshan” are definitely classical masterpieces, and two of the best songs ever, only a person who doesn’t know anything about classical music would say such a thing. Sorry to say “Radha cholechhe” is not better than ‘Man tadpat hari darshan”, that’s your opinion only talking and not the truth. “man tadpat hari darshan” beats out that Manna song by miles.
Listen to Rafi’s concert version of “O duniya ke rahwale” and look at his own input of “mehle udaas”, there is no singer dead or alive who could match that, not even yesudas, whom I consider the best classical singer after Rafi. So whatever you are saying is way off the mark and rubbish.
“baat chalat naii chunari rang daari” was sung in an excellent way by Rafi, your analyzing of the song is rubbish, Rafi never did what you mentioned, and he sang it in a beautiful way, which showed his great classical skills.
“kishore is the more natural and gifted of the two. he is very open to changes in the song structure or tune. so much so that he incorporates them himself, impromptu, in the midst of the final take. the spontaneity that lit his rendering cannot be acquired through technical mastery or through practice. it has to be a part of one’s inherent personality.”
To say Kishore is natural and gifted (and of the two) is like saying he was versatile which is totally wrong. Kishore was not gifted nor natural in singing, he had severe limitations which you fail to acknowledge but it doesn’t matter if you acknowledge this apect of Kishore or not, its still the truth. Rafi was the most gifted and most natural singer ever, and I don’t understand this trained theory of yours. Rafi wasn’t as trained as Manna or other singers, whatever he achieved was due to his brilliance and genius. Also, even if he did receive classical training, it was for the best, as to be an excellent singer, one has to have classical training, Lata, Asha all had training as well so what you’re saying is false. On the other hand, even if Kishore had training he would have remained the same, with severe limitations.
“it is well known that rafi is loathe to last minute changes in the tune or structure of a song. he likes to make sure that he is well practiced to his satisfaction before he goes for the final take. you could commend him for his professional attitude, but it does cost him the spontaneity.”
Wrong again, Rafi was very open to last minute changes in tune or structure of a song, or anything. He was very particular about rehearsals though because he was a perfectionist. Spontaneity was always there in Rafi’s case, whereas in Kishore’s case he wasn’t really a great singer for anything like Spontaneity to matter. You are right though, spontaneity can’t be learned through practice, it has to be natural, which Rafi had, and Kishore lacked.
RD preferred Kishore because he wanted to help out his friend who’s singing career was in the pits, which is why he preferred him. The interesting thing is that he always had to revert back to Rafi whenever his back was against a wall, and he needed Rafi throughout his career. It has nothing to do with Kishore’s singing, as Rafi was the greatest singer of all time and RD knew that as well.
You definitely don’t know what you’re talking about, you are truly bias, and your knowledge of music is poor. You only go by what you think is correct, sorry to say it is completely false and nonsense. Stop trying to disect things which don’t need disecting, you’re trying to prove something which cannot be proved, and instead making a joke of yourself.
Rafi will always be the greatest singer of all time, as well as the best classical singer, regardless of what you or anyone else says, as its already a proven fact. Putting Kishore and Saigal in Rafi’s league or above is a joke, only someone who has no knowledge of music or is bias would do that.
Also, anyone with any inch of musical knowledge and an unbiased view knows that Rafi has no peers, he was the greatest singer of all time, and the best classical singer.
Btw, read the above article again, swaminatha iyer says Rafi is in a different class and league all together compared to anyone else.
Dear Rafifan,
I don’t know why “man re tu kahe na dheer dhare” is classified as a bhajan. I think it would be more appropriate to classify it as a spiritual song. Once you hear the song, you immediately realise that no other singer could have the same impact as rafi saab.
I don’t know how the others feel, but I’ve felt that rafi’s voice incorporated two distinct styles of devotional singing: the bhakti style of the hindus and the sufi style of the muslims. Among the other singers, manna dey could also sing in both styles, but what amazes me is that rafi could beat everyone in bhajans. Part of the reason could be that he was a very spiritual reason. And if it were not for the fakir whom he used to follow as a little kid, we wouldn’t have had the phenomenon called “rafi”. That fakir was rafi’s earliest teacher.
I’d like to provide an excerpt from a recent interview with Khayyam:
—-
Khayyam recalled that, in the ’50s, when Rafi’s singing career was already ascending with people taken in by his mellifluous voice and unique singing style, the singer once called on him and made an unusual request.
‘He said that he had a desire to sing some bhajans – Hindu devotional songs,’ Khayyam said.
‘In fact, Rafi himself gave me some bhajan tunes and asked me to compose music taking those tunes as a base. That album containing these memorable bhajans was one of Rafi’s earliest non-film albums,’ said Khayyam.
—–
Now we know how “tere bhaose hey nandlala” and “paon padu tore shyam” were created. Rafi held a near-monopoly on “nandlal”. A favourite nandlal song of mine — can’t be called a bhajan — was composed by Pandit Ravi Shankar for “godaan” in raag kafi. Here is “holi khelat nandlal biraj mein” rendered in a very playful mood by the one and only —-:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4TtHWql3Uo
Bengali readers can relate this tune to the Nazrul geeti “brajo gopi khale hori”, which rafi saab sang a month or two before he passed away.
hi,
myk, binu nair, unknow, anil cherian etc.
i will refrain from furthur answering to your posts. anybody who says saigal cannot be placed alongside rafi , who says mukesh does go “besuraa” sometimes and then goes on to say that he is still better than kishore, who says rafi is the best classical singer (better than lata and asha) unfortunately knows nothing about saigal and his music, nor does he/they know anything about classical music. if your fixation with rafi prevents you from recognizing kk for the genius that he was, you are more to be pitied than anything else.
if rafi is your favourite singer, i will not argue because he is a great singer. if you say you love rafi’s voice more than any other singer’s voice, i will never say a word. this is because these are all personal choices not subject to criticism.
but, if you put forth a claim that “man tarpat hari darshan” and/or “o duniya ke rakhwaale” is the best classical song in hindi film music, then you are way off the mark. if your arguement is based on the claim that these songs evoke a strong emotional response from you, fair enough, i will not press the point further (for me, though, the expressions infused into this song are a little overwrought).
however, if your claim is that these songs are classical masterpieces, you cannot be more wrong. there are many instances in these songs where rafi’s rendition lacks technical rigour and is strained. And you don’t need the recommendations of naushad to disprove this point. any trained ear can catch the glitches.
if you want to listen to a better rendition of a song in the same raga (malkauns) as “man tarpat hari darshan”, listen to manna dey’s “Radha cholechhe”.
to see how badly rafi can do in the classical genre, listen to “baat chalat naii chunari rang daari” from Rani Roopmati here. rafi sings here with krishnarao chonkar.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoQJIy8o9Qc
it’s not that he is not equal to the task of rendering the taans. the fact is that it is clearly evident that rafi struggles to adhere to the structure of the raga or the “pakad”. when you talk about classical virtuosity in a filmi context, this is of paramount importance. when rafi tries to render a classical song, it’s as though he is “by-hearting” the structure and flow of the song. it’s not a spontaneous flow of a singer fluent in classical music. and i am not even talking about intricate taans of the ustaad/pandit variety.
just listen to the mangeshkar sisters in this “duet”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlP9akjezn0
lata, much to my surprise, takes shudh nishad in the avaroh of tilang (while asha doesn’t).
also, listen to lata’s rendition of “aaja bhanwar” from rani roopmati in raga brindavani sarang (starts at about 4:50) in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L5saeQyHdA
it is surprising how many of you point to the duets or tandem songs of rafi and lata to compare the two. Lata’s pitch is about 2 notes lower than Rafi. Most duets and tandem songs are composed closer to Rafi’s natural pitch. Lata had a great mandra (low) range which Rafi totally lacked.
also, you don’t have to listen to me. just read the article above written by swaminatha iyer. he himself says that lata’s talents are beyond anyone’s reach.
now you folks can continue your praise of rafi’s classical prowess. i will not jump in the midst anymore.
sudip,
that definitely is a very nice verse. in fact, i enjoy all the songs and verses of pyaasa. i always thought that sdb made the best use of rafi’s voice (songs from kala paani and kala bazaar come to mind).
considering that it is a verse and not a song, rafi rendered it very well, with good expression and punctuation. however, i thought his intonation (esp. when he begins a couplet like “tang aa chuke …” and “denge wohi …” etc.) near the lower notes betrayed a degree of discomfort.
however, it’s not something technically impossible for kishore to have rendered. my feeling is that it wouldn’t have sounded as sweet as rafi. but this is for reasons other than technical.
here are a few songs of kishore rendered with minimal music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM-cQB2SyFs&feature=related – see the sweet harkat that he pulls off near 1:40.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hMZpic8DTQ – again, not a technically easy song at all (you can try it for yourself)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUabntsHEc4 – another beautiful song with minimal music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIMVrHSW4so – another rendition with no music
to me, the clearest distinction between the two is that rafi is a practiced singer, a rehearsed singer, while kishore is the more natural or gifted, spontaneous singer. and i am not expressing this view out of thin air.
it is well known that rafi is loathe to last minute changes in the tune or structure of a song. he likes to make sure that he is well practiced to his satisfaction before he goes for the final take. you could commend him for his professional attitude, but it does cost him the spontaneity.
kishore is the more natural and gifted of the two. he is very open to changes in the song structure or tune. so much so that he incorporates them himself, impromptu, in the midst of the final take. the spontaneity that lit his rendering cannot be acquired through technical mastery or through practice. it has to be a part of one’s inherent personality.
it was mainly for this reason that rdb preferred kishore. rdb once remarked that you have to teach kishore just once and he would be on to it like a shot.
so, your preference for a singer comes mainly from what you are looking for.
Anil:
Your observation is correct-the song is indeed similar to “hum ko tumhari ishq”. I felt the same too.
The big difference here is COMPLETE LACK of any musical instrument..And the sudden switching to high pitch without any instrument is even more commendable.
Arun – your post 1098 clarification – quite simple.
You should have known by this time reply to your question, by reading many messages in the past few pages. Anyhow, as earlier pointed out my me and many southern fans of rafi ji here, rafi is rafi and ghantasala is ghantasala i.e. as rafi is unique to hindi, ghantasala is unique to telugu. Ghantasala is another rafi in indian playback singing. Truly, it is difficult to distinguish in clear terms who is great, because when you hear individually both, both appear greater in their own styles. That is why, i feel swaminatha iyer, the writer of the original article here, who had close association with almost all the southern singers, deliberately avoided ghantasala, because he knew this fact.
Rafi’ji’s edge highlighted here.
But one point i have observed rafi ji had maintained beauty in his voice for a longer time than ghantasala ji. Rafi’s voice had great beauty from early 50’s to mid 70’s, whereas in case of ghantasala ji, the voice lost its earlier greatness from 1968 onwards. From 1953 to 1966, ghantasala’s voice was at its peak and had a unique beauty similar to rafi ji. . If you hear ghantasala songs after 1966, (his health started deteriorating, and he passed away ultimately in 1974) it will not appear much great though they are beautiful by virtue of his classical edge and experience. So in this particular area, rafi ji has an edge in terms of longevity in relation to maintenance of his voice and number of songs and contribution.
Moreover, in one telugu film talla pellama, (1970) rafi ji had a great number nuvvu nenu which is a qawali number and rafi had performed it great (barring telugu language pronounciation). I am not able to upload the great telugu number of rafi ji here for the benefit of readers, as i was unable to locate the number on the website. If any telugu fan of rafi can upload the same, our other friends can enjoy the same.
This telugu number by rafi is certainly greater than ghantasala in 1970, by which time the great ghantasala’s earlier unique voice had already lost its earlier majestic sheen. I hope my telugu friends concur with my view.
Finally, all my friends and rafi ji lovers, – i wish you all of you a happy ganesh chaturthi festival today. May lord ganesha’s blessings be showered upon all human beings. May the entire human race live happily and peacefully.