True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
Dhaniramji (post 1973) One more song that I would like to add to list of Mukeshji is ‘Jot se jot jalaate raho’ from the 1964 film Sant Gyaneshwar.The melody queen was quite upset that her version did not reach the same popularity heights as Mukesh’s version.
She had the same problem when Talat’s ‘Jaye to jaye kahan’ from 1954’s taxi driver became a better hit then her version.
I stumbled upon this post on Slumdog Millionaire.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/derek-beres/the-spell-and-sell-of-the_b_169570.html
Derek Beres is an internationally renowned music critic. Read the first paragraph and note how international critics hold the greatest Indian singer.
thangal sahib
man mora bhawra is one of the best classically based songs ever sung for a hindi movie and it is impossible to imagine it in any voice other than rafi sahib’s.
no other singer could have sung it with such technical perfection.and then rafi’s divine voice.
the voice dips with man and then levels with fantastic undulation on bhawra.
after referential articulation of the phrase man mora bhawra,the tone becomes discernibly accusatory.
unlike his obtuse,vociferous and truculent drum-beaters,kishoreda knew his limitations very well and was graceful enough to acknowledge rafi sahib’s unparallelled virtuosity lipsynching the latter’s voice.
Paramjeet Post 1740:
saying sorry is a matter of good conduct. and, the sorry with magar and agar loses its charm.
it’s like saying, “mai girh to gaya magar mere pao uppar hai” ( I have fallen but my feet is in the air ).
binus
@Binuji: “and finally how about comparing guruji with kumar saanu who gave great competition to guruji in the eighties.”
I don’t agree with your this point. Can you state some songs of Kumar Sanu supporting your view. THough sanu bursted the hindi films with ashiqui (90), his first considerable hit song was the title song from Amitabh Bachans “jaadugar” which was released in 89. We all know that KKji passed away in 87. THere is surely no way Sanu gave competition to guruji if my facts are correct. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Personally, though I appreciated Kumar Sanu’s efforts, I did not like his voice. I mean I have not heard another singer who sounded so different in Recorded Studios and in “Live Concerts”. I thought and predicted that Udit Narayan will win the race in the long run and it did happen that way. Sanu fizzled out very soon as compared with Udit who was better at least upto 2005.
I strongly endorse your view about govt awards being almost zero for KKji. Of course its altogether different story that even KK influenced school of singers like sanu, abhijeet, et al, did not even a single national award for male category, whereas Rafiji gharana singers Udit got three and Sonu nigam got one. If one adds Yesudas and SPB in this category then the numbers go to a whopping 13, putting Rafi gharana total at 19 (rafijis 2 included), whereas KKjis camp remains consistent at 0 🙂
One for the Record….
Mohd Rafi is my favourite singer and and we definitely love the works of our timeless music legends. Guruji kishore kumar is no exception to the list.
we have a right to say great things about great songs sung by mohd rafi and other singers. why should a “select” bunch of people get rattled by it.
we have our musical choices and opinions and each one of us have the right to tell about our musical aspirations which soothes the soul in a big way. and in the process remember our music greats.
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to kishore kumar lovers:
inspite of provocations and bad and filthy language used by kishore kumar supporters and also pricking holes in the body work of legend mohd rafi , we have observed restraint.
I have never written personal things about kishore kumar so far which we are aware about such as : kishore kumars behaviour with madhubala and her rushing to aashiana to naushad saahebs house with imprintable complaints.
we have never discussed the tax problems he had and the many tiffs with the government.
further, the singer was busy in his career with as many as four marriages and there are juicy stories about them. that’s a personal matter and we will “not” stoop low and talk about them unlike – guruji fans.
no government award was ever given to guruji and we know the reason behind this and “never” use this to score a point .
and finally how about comparing guruji with kumar saanu who gave great competition to guruji in the eighties.
little more, let me tell everyone here in that the government is seriously thinking about “honouring” mohd rafi saaheb with the bharat ratna award – for his great contribution to music and for the examples he set in his personal life.
guruji lovers, jara hosh me aaiye aur bakhwas (irresponsible things na kahe)
binus…..
Today I would like to salute the very gifted, the very talented, and the very handsome Jaikishan Panchal who passed away at the age of just 39 years old on that sad September day in 1971. As P. Haldar so nicely put it, his death was the biggest blow to HFM (at the time), and the second biggest blow to HFM after the death of Rafi-saab. Imagine how many more years of brilliant music we would have received had Jai lived. Ofcourse, before he left, he showered us with so many beautiful songs and memories.
In my view, there was no better composer of romantic songs. Where others took labour in composing romantic gems, for Jai it came to him instantly, much like his legendary background scores, and songs in various other genres. Jai ofcourse had the perfect medium in the silken vocals of Rafi-saab to make his vision a reality. Both Jai and Shankar were brilliant composers in their own right, and its our good fortune both decided to team up, as they would have been successful even by themselves.
S-J were absolute “kings” in every respect, and will always be regarded as trend-setters, and are arguably two of the greatest composers (in the top most of all time), in the history of HFM.
Coming back to Jaikishan specifically, here are eleven Rafi songs for eleven years (1961-1971). For the moment I am listing just eleven. One can make many other lists with many other songs, of S-J and various other composers:
1961: Teri zulfon se judaai – Jab Pyar Kisi Se Hota Hai
1962: Aye gulbadan – Professor
1963: Yeh aansoo mere dil ki – Humrahi
1964: Yeh mera prem patra – Sangam
1965: Aye phoolon ki rani – Arzoo
1966: O mere shah-e-kuban – Love In Tokyo
1967: Surahi daar gardan koyal – Aman
1968: Dil ke jharokhe mein – Brahmachari
1969: Gar tum bhula na doge – Yakeen
1970: Mere mehboob tere dam se – Bhai Bhai
1971: Jab mohabbat jawan hoti – Jawan Mohabbat
anilji and sudipji
as usual you are right regarding mukesh.some people nonchalantly dismiss mukesh whose achievement from the maiden song dil jalta hai to the swan song kabhi kabhi is stupendous and only next to rafi and lata.
mukesh sang not only sad songs superbly,he partenered with lata and asha in many very melodious numbers.you already know them.i just point out a couple of less known but wonderful duets:
1. sapne mein aana chhed chhed jaana seekha kahaan se hai mere balam ne
mukesh sings some parts better than lata.
2. nee baliye rut hai bahaar ki.
a lovely song based on a folk tune
3. dil lootne wale jaadugar ab maine tumhe pehchana hai
4. hum bhi hain tum bhi ho dono hain aamne samne
5. mehtab tera chehra kis khab mein dekha tha
6. saath ho tum aur raat jawaan neend kise ab chain kahaan (with asha burman)
7 aa ab laut chalen
8 o meire sanam o meire sanam
a singer who excelled lata in at least three tandum songs can’t be simply dismmissed as besura:
1 aa lautke aaja mere meet
2. mujhko is raat ki tanhai mein awwaz na do
3. chandan sa badan
to both fans of rafi & kishore,what would have been the condition of the famous song manumora baawara ,if it be sung by kishore instead of rafi ? please comment..(filim ragini md op neyyer )
sudipji
you are absolutely right that i have headache listening to kishoreda.
some time in sixties,we heard the father sing: sun mere bandhu re sun mere mitwa
some time in seventies we heard the son b… : tum kya jaano mohabbat kya hai
which one do you think belongs to the realm of music?
the first song is a representative of the soothing melody of hfm.the second is symptomatic of a pathology that struck hfm in seventies from which hfm hasn’t recovered.rare exceptions are always there. yesudas sir’s thumri in swami of 70s aaye na balam kya karoon sajani is as good as anything of the 50’s and 60’s.
Binuji..sorry… Kuchh zyada bol diya hoga to..
Magar maine koi legends ko kharab nahi bola, jaise aapne aur sandeepji ne kayin baat kia hai…
Fir bhi..”Sorry”..
Dear Anil Sir, Haldar da, Manishji,XXX bhai,MYK sir and all Rafi lovers,
Please ignore the imposters they dont know what they are doing by damaging a legend like Kishoreda who swore by Saigal sab n Rafi sahab. Infact Binuji is on dot when he says that KK had two big portraits of the legends in his house.
Come on give us some gyaan on all the hits with the great Sandeep saabs interactions with our Guruji Rafi sahab..
Deepali and Kalyani
Thanks for the Maradaona video, unknownji. It seems we both share common passions- for the 2 Ms- Mohammed Rafisahab and Maradona.
These two have something in common (apart from the fact that both were abundantly blessed); their appeal is not diminishing even after so many years, actually it’s even on the increase now that people have realised that we will never see another Rafisahab or Maradona again (something they have probably not thought of when these two left their respective stages)
Manishji:
Enjoyed reading your interview simile. Nothing but the truth.
Prabhanjan:
I share your suspicion, not just about the names you’ve mentioned but several others as well. What I can’t understand is why all these folks have to be ‘neutral’ ‘analysts’ and not just KK fans (who may or may not acknowledge Rafisahab). To be a KK fan is a crime or what? Or that Rafi fans are all ‘biased’ musically ‘illiterates’ who could be scared away with big talks and jargons?
Agree with Sudipji on Mukeshji and his sad songs. To be ‘besura’ in a sad song often enriches the song. And this ‘besura’ factor makes Mukeshji inimitable also for one can’t be trained to be ‘besura’.
To think of it, among all the pioneer singers of the HFM, it’s Rafi sahab who should have been the most unsuitable one for the sad numbers (for his sweet, smooth, bubbly voice). Mukeshji’s voice is naturally somber and melancholic; Kishoreda’s assumes comparable properties in the low-mid ranges (especially as it got older and rougher). Even Mannada with his slightly grainy and mature voice held an edge over Rafisahab, theoritically. But how well did Rafisahab rendered all those unforgettable melancholic songs. As mentioned earlier by Dhaniram sir, his voice got drenched in agony, as if by Divine intervention.
Dear respected fellow Rafi admirers:
The “I love Rafi also” sect has done what they wanted to. Let’s please see thru their game and simply ignore them. It’s not that we can’t fight them off but that would be a total waste of our time (as well as that of the admin of the site).
Dear admin:
I personally wouldn’t like to see the rantings of folks who are here only to provoke. Please think about it.
Nadkarni sahab:
Pranams. You are truly a man blessed by the Almighty; otherwise one wouldn’t be able to bless people who have cursed him. May the Almighty give you a long and happy life.
Dear Moderator:
the guruji worshippers have lost their cool, their mental balance also along with it and now using unparlementary words when their game of “one upmanship ” about guruji has failed. please chain the “talibanis” herein – out to create trouble.
request moderator to note, delete and ban their entry to this site : most urgently… this is what many of rafi lovers wish…..
binu nair
paramjeet and his ilk : aap ke bakwaas yahan par chaape is liye mohdrafi.com ke moderator ko zara shaabaashi do.
aap logon ka gaa** kaa culture hum dekh liya. aur ketne peg lekar yeh gaa** ke baate sochte aur likh dete ho, yeh hamen maloom bhi hai. guruji ke lovers aakhir is gaa** ke culture par uthar aate hi hai yeh koi nayee baat nahin hai. ek aur baat guru-ji lovers ke aap ne demonstrate kar diya arre oh chu****.
aap punjab me jaaiye aur dekhiye hamare hero wahan kithne chaaye huwe hai. jhara kaan se suniye, janaab, aapke gaa** se nahin.
sab teekh ho jaayega.
all the best,
binu nair
Paramjeet,
You are accusing binu nair of using harsh language, what are you doing yourself by the way???
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Na to kabhi technical discussions me hissa lene ki tum G*** me dum rakhte ho, to itna chillate kyun ho?? Raat ko zyada le rahe ho kya aajkal? ya kerala gaye nahi bahut dino se?
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wo *** bhi mention kar dete, sharam aa gayi thi kya? … anyways, may god blesss you some dignity. take care
It is indeed nice to see so many KK fans interestingly putting forth their childish views in this beautiful site which is dedicated in the loving memory of the Greatest Ever Mohammed Rafi Saab. I welcome all of you with folded hands which is indeed the culture & the tradition of this Indian Culture.
How true the old proverb which rightly says birds of a feather always flock together. Surprisingly all the KK writers are entering this site as if — bin bulaya mehman na ghar ka na ghat ka.
I personaly feel that each one of the KK fans writing in this site might definately be having their own name & especially their identity which their dear parents might have christened in their early childhood, but in fact you all have shocked us beyond doubt & imagination by calling yourselves as KK fans as if Bachpan me maa aur baap ne naam nahee rakha tha. Indeed benam gadhe lagte ho
Kishore ne sach hee kaha tha pehle nale me jakar moo dhoke aao phir Rafi Saab ke bare mein baat karo — baat kya karo sare chuloo bhar panee mein doob maro. Kuch palle pada ya aur kuch samjhana ya samajna baaki hai
Sare ek namune raaste ke cartoons ho kam se kam auron kee nahin to khud kee thodi bahot izzat rakho. Agar khud kee izzat hai to rakhenge na.
Truely said — Jinhe naaz hai apne aap par aur is desh par woh kahan hai ?
@Sanjay Aroraji: Your quote “PLEASE HEAR THE HINDI SONGS OF GHANTASALA FROM PATAAL BHAIRAVI ( YOU WOULD NOT HAVE HEARD THE NAME AND PLEASE DO NOT GET CONFUSED WITH THE JEETENDRA HAVING DABBA MUSIC BY THE ALTIME GREATEST BAPPI LAHIRI )”.
Please don’t get carried away by false agony and scribble wrong facts. This Jeetendra movie was released a good almost 10 years after the demise of Ghantasaalaji and your remark is an insult to both Ghantasaalaji and Rafiji. Don’t undermine anybody’s legacy. Its just not fair.
Regarding similar titled movie, there is indeed one in hindi with music by Ghantasaalaji and sung by singers such as Talat Mehmood, Geeta Dutt, and Kamla Devi. Here is a link for that http://www.earthmusic.net/hindi-film-songs.php?movie=Patal+Bhairavi
@kishorefan: You said “Aap rafi lovers sochte hai ki, yeh site 1700 messages ki purti kar chuki hai. Magar inme 1200 messages ghantasala ke upar or 400 messages kishore ke upar hai.”, and also say later “I new entrant to this site.”
ROLFMAO!!!!!
You are a joker and self-fool. You take trouble to read all the 1700 messages ONLY to categorise them as 1200 for Ghantasala and 400 for KK. There is no doubt that you are just one of those Ashus or Arghyas or some other mad guy who comes here more to degrade Rafi with that “I also love Rafi” turncoat. This is really mean mentality. Come on, if you have such prejudice why even post here.
@Rafians: Is it just me or all who have noticed that when Ashu was around, there was no Arghya, and vice versa. When Arghya was there, this KKfan was not around, and so on. Go get a life, sorry, I mean go get a KK song 😀
DEAR KISHORE FAN, ONE MORE JOKER FROM THE LOT OF SATYANASH( KK KA SATYANASH KIYA),SURJIT BOSE , AGAIN COMING CRYING ON RAFI SAAB SITE ,PLEASE FOLLOW MR.BINU NAIR`S ADVICE AND PREACH THE GREATNESS TO ORKUT BABIES,WHY WASTING TIME UNNECESSARILY ON GHANTASALA & KK.PLEASE HEAR THE HINDI SONGS OF GHANTASALA FROM PATAAL BHAIRAVI ( YOU WOULD NOT HAVE HEARD THE NAME AND PLEASE DO NOT GET CONFUSED WITH THE JEETENDRA HAVING DABBA MUSIC BY THE ALTIME GREATEST BAPPI LAHIRI )
Dear Kishore Fans to all the previous posts pls….
We have nothing against Kishore da he is a legend but we definitely take offence if you accuse that this great website moderator doesnt publish urs or Satayansh’s views. What is Satayansh proving that ghantasala garu has sung which the song referred which no singer can sing. So be it. Likewise there are many Rafi sahab’s songs which no one can sing..
So why to take on a subjective issue.. Every immortal artistes like Rafi sahab,Mukeshji, Kishoreda, Talat sir,Hemanda,Geetaji and the living greats like Lataji, Ashaji n Mannada are legends in the singing field…
So if a Rafi fan says that his icon can sing bhajans,nazm,quawalis,patriotic,sad,romantic,classical,yoddeling( there are few of them),comedy,phiosophical,etc and dominated the industry for more than 2and a half decades. can this truth be changed?
Rafi lovers should not be provoked by biased and mind block write ups..
Salil da was never against Rafi sahab or Kishore da his fav was Mukeshji n Mannada. Simillarly Anilda was misquoted by RB when many songs of Sj were simillar he commented on the music trend in the 60s….and the poor guy was misquoted by the journo in the 60s. Even before he passed away he suggested to all viewers in the TVS Sare ga ma that why you are admiring Rafi or Kishore please listen to Talat who is my fav.
So dear Kishorefan come and let us analyse the greatness of Rafi sahab, his humility, his soft ,shy nature and the blockbuster melodies given by the greatest icon to cherish for more than a life time.
Infact if we come to your fav singer’s site we will reciprocate..
Remember life is short and we want to make it very sweet with king of Melody that is our Rafi saahab for us..
P.Narayanan
Bangalore
Dear Kishorefan, you may have heard the proverb ke ‘sach ki aawaz dheemi hoti hai aur jhoot cheekh cheekh ke khud ko sach batata hai’.IMHO it is the same here.BTW I hold KK in high regards (much higher then the sisters).I may have jumped into a controversial issue but some things need to be confronted.
Cheers.
Dear All,
My humble request to all of you who keep questioning Rafi Saab’s capabilities, is to understand one thing. This is a site which has been dedicated to Rafi Saab. Here, we Rafians pour out our emotions and feelings for the greatest ever male singer from India. His popularity needs no certificate from anyone. We never attempt to degrade or belittle his cotemporaries. That is not the aim of this site.
Concurrently, we expect others to follow some decorum and not drag us into unnecessary arguments about who is greater than the other. This fact has been decided by the millions of Rafi fans and millions of music lovers in India. No one needs to waste his time on whether Rafi Saab could have sung this song, or that song, so on and so forth.
As Rafians, we do not wish to waste our time arguing with anyone on such trifle matters. I dont think our moderator refuses to publish any comment becasue he is so scared of such comments or because we cannot respond to such comments.
Such comments dont deserve a reply and that is it, period !!!!!
Please do not attempt to spoil the sanctity and value of this site.
Please learn to respect others before you are respected.
Thanks
Saifullah
Dubai
Binu Nair ji, – pranams
I am a kishore lover, honestly speaking, I am a rafi lover too. I have many friends who really appreciate both and equal respect for both the legends and there are no issues. Moreso, I do not know why some people are cheaply fighting. Binu sir and moderator sir, I earnestly request you to give opportunity for all readers to participate in this forum. In fact, one Mr. satyansh, who incidentally runs his own site, and whose views, I personally appreciate, has claimed that when he had put a question that one rendition syamala dandakam by ghantasala ji, was far superior and difficult for any playback singer to render, such message was deliberately not posted here. Binu ji, why is it happening. if you do not allow such messages here, it is an indirect acceptance that there is no reply to such message or such message cannot be countered by any rafi fan. In one way it is presumed that defeat is accepted. I certainly do not want that to happen. My request is Let whatever messages may be posted, be posted here and we should leave the rest of things to our expert rafi fans to take over.
Hello to all,
I new entrant to this site. thiru rafi romba madhura gaatram. thiru ghantasala also romba madhura gaatram. Rafi no songs in tamil. Ghantasala romba songs in tamil. both great.
Rafi lovers,
My last message to my previous four immediate messages. Mr. Binu Nair and other rafi lovers claim that they can counter anybody with sufficient proof regarding greatness of rafi. Why, in such case, some messages by others, as somebody claims here, deliberately not posted here. It was well known that rafi lovers has no answers to those messages and they are deliberately not being posted in this site. Only those messages in which rafi lovers could answer are being posted here and challenging messages, the moderator is deliberately hiding them, since there will be no answers. I do not know whether my messages will be posted or not, but at least the moderator know that when he is deliberately removing messages, he is indirectly accepting that, in that particular messages, rafi fan cannot reply, or rafi can be easily defeated in that particular message. For instance, satyansh ji, & singh ji, had made a claim about the rendition syamala dandakam by ghantasala ji – saying no body can render it and such song is a distant dream for even rafi himself. This messages were not posted or belatedly posted, since the moderator was aware that rafi lovers are no match for such messages. A deliberate attempt is being made to see that one sided prejudiced campaign is being propogated in this forum. As satyansh ji has in his site opened a topic called false propoganda in rafi site by pointing fingers at other singers and this site of satyansh ji is going to assume importance shortly. If my messages are posted, I will be surprised to see if any rafi lover has any counter.
Mr. Unknow
Aur ek surprising baat kehna chahata hoon. Aap rafi lovers sochte hai ki, yeh site 1700 messages ki purti kar chuki hai. Magar inme 1200 messages ghantasala ke upar or 400 messages kishore ke upar hai. Bache message 100 rafi ji ke upar. Ab batao kaun popular hai or kiska nam bada hai.
Binu Nair and rafi ji lovers,
Sir, you are right. Temporarily withdrawal will happen for resurfacing again in a new style. This has happened many times earlier.
contd… to previous post
and even from 1969 onwards kishore too overtook rafi and jitna jhagada rafi fans kare, yeh bath to sacchai hai. Sabko maloom hain ki, rafi ne resign karne ka decisions liya tha, 1969 ke bad, Yeh baat koye rafi fan nahi bolta hai jab yeh baat pakki thi. Kya koyi bina classical training ke music compose kar sakta hai. Kishore ji ne woh kiya tha. Kafi hai unki tarif karne ki. Kya bolenge rafi fan log iske utter mein.
1706 – Mr. Unknow
you asked why kk is not being compared with ghantasala. As I understand from Mr. Satyansh and others in this site, ghantasala was altogether in a different superior league and no body was match for him. As I was given to understand, since many rafians claim rafi to be number one, only rafi and ghantasala comparison was made. Many ghantasala fans believe ghantasala to be the greatest, and since rafi was more famous, he alone was capable of being the comparison factor for him. Barring rafi, none can be compared with ghantasala. That stands fact. And even with rafi, many have pointed out that (Including musicians here) ghantasala has edge over rafi.
Binu..
“remote violinist”(meri english waise kamzor hai) koi gaali nahi hai.. Is se kahin zyada gandi zubaan aapne anil biswas, kishore kumar ke baare mein use kar chuke hai( yaad dilaun?).. To krupaya, aap kuchh mat bole…
Aur rahi sawal izzat ki, kya guru murthy sir rafifan nahi hai??? Yeh sawal aaj main sabhi se poochhta hoon… Kya kabhi kisi ne guru murthy saab ki insult kari hai yahan pe? koi bhi “kishore fan” ya main? Sochke dekhiyega.. Guru murthy ji ne kayin baar yahan pe kaha hai ke “rafisaab best the”.. kya main, arghya, satyansh ya surjait ne kabhi react kiya? Ek “decency” hoti hai bolne ki.. Jo ki kuchh members mein nahi hai.. Main unke naam leke point out karke chillata hoon unpe.. Aur yeh sirf unke bhasha aur niyat ke liye.. Main Binu, Haldar jaise logon pe react karta hoon, kyunki, yeh log “politically corrupt” hai… Na ki manish kumar ji ya anil cherian saab ke upar… Jo log honestly rafisaab ke fans hai…
Aur binubhai.. Tum ko to classical music ki abcd nahi aati hai.. Na to kabhi technical discussions me hissa lene ki tum G*** me dum rakhte ho, to itna chillate kyun ho?? Raat ko zyada le rahe ho kya aajkal? ya kerala gaye nahi bahut dino se?
Bilkul raifsaab best singer hai.. kyunki-
1. Unke fans dusre singers ko “rickshawwala voice”, “besoora”, “insaan kehne me sharam aati hai”, “chameleon” yeh sab bol sakte hai.. Baki singers ke fan yeh sab shabd bardaasht nahi kar sakte hai, aur aese ghatiya alfaas sunne se pehle discussions chhod dena pasand karte hai.. To discussions me kaun reh jaate hai?? Off course, Rafi saab ke fans!!! To jeeta kaun? Off course, Rafisaab ke fans!!! To best kaun? Rafisaab!!!! Binu… Tu to is zindagi mein nahi sudhar sakta…
2. Sandeep Nadkarni saab.. Aap buzurg hai aur aap yeh chahte hai ki arghya karke koi ek aadmi jo aapko “not so good” words bola tha woh aap se maafi maange.. Aapne yeh bhi admit kia ke aapne “rafisaab ke prati prem” ke wajah se kuchh galat shabdon ka bhi istemaal kiya dusron ke baare me.. Jahan tak meri logic kaam karta hai, arghya ji ne aapko isi liye hi criticise kiya tha ke aap dusre legends ko ganda bol rahe the.. Aur dusre legends ko ganda bolnewalon ko sirf arghyaji nahi sabhiko protest karna chahiye… Bhale hi woh aadmi rafifan ho, ya musician ho ya achha insaan hi kyun naho.. arghyaji, agar aap pad rahe ho, to aap ko maafi mangne ko koi zaroorat mujhe nazar nahi aati…. Aur abhi sandeep ji soft soft baatein karke sympathy gain karne me joote hue hai, to unko votes aese hi mil jayenge:).. Sahayta ki kya zaroorat hai…
Sandeepji, mujhe aapse ya aapki khayalat se koi bhi problem nahi.. Problem mujhe aur aur kuchh members ko( jinko aap “Guruji bhakt” bolte hai, pata nahi kyun, magar sab unme guruji bhakt nahi hai) aap ki use kari hui bhasha pe thi.. Jo ki mujhe lagta hai sahi hai.. Kishore kumar ko “besoora” prove karna ya salilda ko chhota karne se to Rafisaab bade nahi ho jaate na? Aap ko humlog yehi samjha rahe the… Ek senior artist hone ke naate aap ko yeh samajhna chahiye tha…
In the battle beetween man and beast, there are always chances of beasts to win because they can do so many “cheap” things which men can not..
Binu.. enjoy your winning party.. If you wish, i can sponsor your champagne for tonight..
Mr. Sandeep Nadkarni ji,
I have been moved by your earlier post. Anyhow, I appreciate that you have with you the support of music which is form of the great lord itself and as such, it is truth that god is with you and you are not alone. Next, all rafi lovers are with you. All the best sir.
By the way, as you are a fine musician, for my interest, may I request you your opinion on the southern great legend, ghantasala ji, whom You might have heard in this forum.
Paramjeet ji,
Satyansh bhai sachmuch mein true music lover hai. yeh maine unke website mein unke bahut sunder articles dekhe. Unhone bahut he depth me alag singers ke bare me open opinion diya hai. Thoda unki website ke baare me bata doon. Rafi fans ko yeh manna hi padega.
Apnee sahi baat kahi hai. Jara Satyansh ji ka website bhi padiye. Unhone bahut he sacchaiyan likhi hai. Kishore fans or ghantasala fans jab rafi ki tarif karthe hai, woh baat rafi fans bhool jate hai, jab woh log unke singers ka speciality batate hai to rafi fans nai sunthe hai – kya ye true music nature hai. Satyansh ji ne apne website mein do ghantasala gaane ke bare me charcha kee or unhone kaha ki koi bhi vaisa nahi gaa sakta. yeh sach hai, maine bhi woh gaane sune the. Bahut difficult gane he woh or well trained classical singers bhi nagi gaa sakte hai woh gane. Satyansh ji ne complaint kiya ke unka yeh message edhar deliberately post nahi kiya gaya kyonki rafi fans sach nahi maanna chahate hai. Saccha message, rafi fans dusro ka specialities acknowledge bhi nai karna chahate hai. Agar rafi fans sache musician hai, kyon na woh dusre singers ke site may jake unki specialities ko mane. Jaise satyansh ji ne kaha tha, classical or devotional film songs me ghantasala jaise kohi nahi gaa sakta. Rafi or manna dey bhi unse bahut kam hai. Kyon nahi mante rafi fans yeh baat jab ye sacchi baat hai. Entertaining songs mein kishore ji se bhi mukabala thik nahi. Kyon nahi mante rafi fans yeh baat. Sahin yehi hoga ki rafi fans mane ya na mane sacchai to sacchai hi hai. Accha yehi hoga ki ghantasala or kishore fans nikal jaye edhar se nahin to, jaise paramjeet ji kehate hai, truthful persons when they say truth, have to face the brunt, though truth remains truth.
Aur ek baath, sargam magazine kya khali rafi ji ka tarif kartha hai yaah har great singer ke baare me articles carry karta hai, pata nahi. Binu nair ne kaha tha ki woh har great singer ko respect karte hain esliye mujhe yeh doubt aaya hai. secularity factor ke upar issue hai edhar.
DISINTEGRATING : THE group known as UAR with Rafi Syndrome…………
the forum United Against Rafi -” Rafi Syndrome ” is disintegrating. one of their spokesperson in post 1708 politely ask guruji kishore kumar lovers to quit this site. he says : “behtar isi me hai ke aap sabhi log yahan se nikhal jaaye”.
the group is cornered now and the need of the hour is to beat a hasty and quick retreat and may be to re-group later.
they (guruji lovers) wished to change our musical tastes; they tried pricking holes in mohd rafi saahebs singing; they found faults in a song composed by salil choudhury – when there was none; they tried to say that their guruji would have sung or could sing all sorts of songs : patriotic, religious, ghazals, qawalis etc but was not considered (why); they want rafi lovers to forget the golden era songs from the fifties to seventies when classics were composed when guruji was not much heard or seen – they said, we are old types thinking “individuals” to remember the golden era classics thereby belittling the great men of music and their works and many other lies – for just one reason : they can never stand the popularity of golden era songs in which mohd rafi was the male “golden voice of the nation”
we telling them that kishore da too worshipped mohd rafi and had his picture alongwith the great K.L.Saighal – did’nt have much effect on them.
a guruji lover also insulted musician mr.sandeep nadkarni (refer post no 1702) by calling him “a remote Violinist” cause he worked with mohd rafi and said few words from his heart about the real situation prevailing in the industry in this site.
these uninvited visitors do not like facts to be mentioned and behave like the talibanis who will “never” allow free thoughts, cultures and arts to flourish.
the United against Rafi – ” Rafi Syndrome” men who barged in are also worried about the popularity of this article and the responses.
their views are suitably corner-ed and the best way is to beat a hasty retreat and not expose the – music limitations of guruji – any further, they have now decided.
in fact, they asked for these and got back in appropriate and huge measure. mohd rafi lovers will take care of such elements, in future too – its my assurance.
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Mr.Sandeep Nadkarni : I salute you for your role in Indian Music and would love to interact with you and meet you at the earliest.
wishing you peace and happiness from my heart.
binu nair
Hi fans,
there many who never saw Pele playing football but they say Pela is better than Maradona ,and today there are many who never saw maradona playing but they say Messi is better than maradona,I hope you all understant what I mean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hHhaHSaTlQ&feature=related
Manoj Kumar received the Kishore Kumar Award For Year 2008…
http://www.yoodleeyoo.com/trivia/manoj-kumar-received-the-kishore-kumar-award-for-year-2008.html
I hope Year 2009 will go to Raj Kapoor , 2010 to Shammi Kapoor 2011 to Naushand,
strange are the ways of the world.
s n tripathi gave a much better music in rani roopmati than rd in aradhana and yet who who knows tripathi while rd is a current rage.
arghyaji…
achha hua aap yahan se chale gaye.. main to kehta hoon ki surajit aur satyansh ko bhi yahan se nikal jana chahiye… aap logon ne rafisaab ke baare me jo bhi kuchh achha kaha woh nazarandaaz kar diya gaya hai is forum me aur khaali kuchh “not so good” comments ko hi controversy create karke propaganda kiya gaya hai( arghyaji aapne khud ek comment me likha tha ki rafisaab qawwali aur devotional songs me best the- mujhe samajh me nahi aata is baat ko project karke aapki taarif kabhi nahi kiya gaya jab ki aap ne salilda ka ek incident bataya-aap ne kuchh comments bhi nahi kia sirf incident hi bataya,main jaanta hoon kyunki maine aap ke saare coments pade hai- to us baat ko leke halla kiya gaya)…
Behtar isi me hai aap sabhi log yahan se nikal jayein.. Kyunki aap log personally hurt ho rahe hai, aur yeh log maza le rahe hai is baat se ki aur controversy create ho raha hai aur is blog mein 1700 posts bhi ho gaye hai…
Fayda dono taraf se inhika hai… Aap log apne apne analysis koi aur website me project kare to usme sabhi sangeet premiyon ka fayda hoga..kyunki main itna samjhta hoon ke aaplog sangeet ke achhe jaankar hai.. Satyanshjee, aap aur likhenge to log aapko “kishore fan” bolke gaali dena shuru karenge, jab ki main khud jaanta hoon aap kishore se zyada manna de ko like karte hai…Jo bhi aadmi kishore ko achha bolega use to gaali khana hi hai rafi fans se… Yeh baat aaj se nahi 1970 se chali aa rahi hai…
I would never call Kishore Kumar a “zero” singer.
But there is a rightful place for everyone in history. Kishore’s rightful place is that of the “greatest entertainer” or the “most entertaining singer”. I know Dhani Ram has headache with Kishore songs and he might differ. I am just talking of the majority view.
The place for the “greatest male singer” belongs to the one and only Rafi Saab.
dear Raj Ji,
I am a KK fan as mohd Rafi I never said that KK is not good singer what I mean that 90% at KK said they said that Mohd Rafi is the best from more than 1200 posts,I don’t want to speak about ghantasala and I never said anything about ghantasala because I don’t know who is ghantasala ?
KK was great if we agree or not but when we speak about Mohd Rafi he is and will be number one and before one it is Zero and after one it is two.
why you don’t want to compare KK with mukesh or ghantasala or Manna dey?why all of us want to compare singers with Mohd Rafi?!!!
you can read my all post I never wrote anything bad on KK or any other singer,for me the singer number one is Mohd Rafi 2,Lata Ji,3,Asha Ji 4,m Kapoor ji,5 Manna Day ji,6,KK ……….
Post 1690 Arghyaji
How can you judge the popularity of a singer by a flop TV show and the babes of Orkut. Infact the so called entertainment editors of so called popular channels are ingorant of the melodies of 50s n 60s.
You will be shocked to note that the dynamic duo of Shankar Jaikishen is unknown to these youngsters. For them retro music starts with panchamda and ends with him..
So kindly do not pass on judgements in a hurried way.
Iam a travelling Marketing Consultant and have interacted with many music lovers across small towns n even villages in our great country who have access to the good old Vividh Bharati/national DD and majority love Rafi sahab and Lataji followed by other legends. This research is the work for the past 25 years..
Do you know when outlook magazine voted the best music legend the 71% respondent voted A.R.Rehman and Lataji came 2nd?. So by ur analysis Rehman is famous than Lataji..
Bye bye bhai saab if you want to give biased comments and welcome if you are a true music and Rafi lover
if we copmare two legends of the same field, it should be with the same
capabilities.we have so many songs of rafi saab to compete with any
legend of indian music industry.can kishore kumar sing “oh duniya ke
rakwale” better than rafi saab?rafi saab could have sung “mera jeevan
kora kagaz” better than kishore kumar.why laxmi kant pyarelal did not
try with kishore kumar for the qawali song “parda hai parda” in amar akbar
antoney?is there any patriotic song,qawali,melody,bajan,duet,sad,classical,
semi classical of kishore kumar better than rafi saab?then why these
people try to project somebody who is zero as far as versatile is concerned
as number one singer?
post 1702 — great sandeepjee indeep beautiful thoughts of your daily routine. Kehte hain jiske khoon mein rafi saab base hai us insaan ki kya kehna.
Dekho arghyajee aapne jise kosa wohee rafi bhakt aapko duwa de raha hai.
Isse badkar dil aapko kaha milega
Arghyajee considering Mr Sandeep Nadkarnis beatiful little thoughts & the views expressed by him you indeed owe an apology to him which i feel is my very personal opinion.
Thanks both Sandeepjee & Arghyajee.
Post 1690 – Dear Arghyajee
I Mr Sandeep Nadkarni definitely agree that I have on a couple of occasions been very harsh in my comments which I probably feel might be exclusively on account of my deep love & respect for Rafi Saab.
Presently I am staying in a very small & remote village situated near the banks of Puttur, which is situated in the holy Vithal District in the Mangalore City. I am 76 years old and also share my birthday with Rafi Saab as I was born on 24/12/1932
Yes I do agree with Argyajee that I am not only a remote violinist but a very simple human being presently residing in the midst of the beautiful nature.
My dear wife has suddenly died a couple of years ago and my 2 sons have sacrificed their lives while on duty with the services.
Presently I lead a very alone life but definitely not lonely as I have with me the golden memories of the Greatest Ever – Mohammed Rafi Saab to cherish
1) Akela hoon main is duniya mein koyee sathi hai who mera saaya
Just opposite my small & sweet dwelling there is a beautiful temple of Lord Krishna and in the wee hours of the morning my ears hear Rafi Saab humming:
2) Radhike tune bansaree bajayee – bansaree bajaye kya mere man bhayee
After completing my usual morning session I go for a brisk walk and rest near a farm to hear the soothing melody:
3) Neel gagan par udte badal – dhoop mein jalta khet hamara kar de tu saaya
Small children playing in the farm seeing their grandfather come running to me and pushing my thoughts:
4) Nanhe munhe bache tere muthee main kya hain
In the hours of the evening I play on my remote violin a couple of songs:
5) Huwee sham unka khayalaagaya
6) Ek haseen sham ko dil mear kho gaya
7) Subha na aayee sham na aayee
Ultimately the beautiful night arrives and I hear Saab humming:
8) Raat ke humsafar thak kar ghar ko chale
And slowly puts me to sleep by slowly whispering
9) Main gaoon tum so jawo such sapno mein kho jawo
Argyajee you have also said in one of your comments that my soul will not rest in peace to which Rafi Saab has truly said – Is duniya se kuch lejane se kuch dekar jana hi accha hai!!!
Argyajee hum aapse bilkool kafa nahin hai – May the Almighty usher on you his choicest blessings
Argyajee Kabhee Wakt nikalkar mere garib kutiya mein aajao – hum aapko hamare is remote violin ke sur se kishoreda ke behtareen geet sunayenge magar sath mein Rafi Saab bhi honge
1696 – unknow ji,
Very good, 90% are mohd.rafi fans in kishore site. When you people ask why KK lovers are coming here, then why so many rafi lovers are in KK’s site. If you call KK site is famous because of 90% mohd rafi fans, Mohd rafi site also due to messages from many KK fans and also many ghantasala fans, Not only rafi fans. pl. remember.