True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
Listen and yourself imagine the legendry singer”class”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIJz36sdOV4&feature=related
My most favorite song of ghanta and the best song ever sung by sala in 1967 when he suddenly got extreme fame, praising himself is,
“sala me to sahab bun gaya, atten shun”‘
What a phenominal classical song ever rendered by ghanta, wow, amazing, mind blowing, marvelous, superb.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOSigv2emvE
Music lovers,
I was just going throught the long discussions between ghantasala and rafi – going by the wikipedia-encyclopaedia, ghantasala is definitely the greatest in the telugu film industry unparalleled – but since he does not seem to have sung any hindi song – so difficult to strictly compare this southern legend to the hindi singers, hence i feel, it would not be fair to compare both rafi and ghantasala. It might be correct to listen the true greats individually from their respective industries and by which one can enjoy their contribution. I think except very few common tunes, that too in their languages, like the kuhu kuhu (this one i appreciate ghantasala’s original version as better than rafi) both were evergreen legends in their respective fields – so comparison would hence not be fair in my view between both of them.
Coming to kishore and rafi, that is a long drawn battle, as it was only kishore who became popular similar to rafi, but i feel in terms of versatality and voice attraction, rafi has a greater say. True, even mukesh, talat mehmood, manna dey, hemant kumar, mahendra kapoor all too had some significant contribution to the industry, but rafi was the lead pack among all.
2540 – light music lover ji
I appreciate your post.
Yes, Manna dey, though talented, could not get such “huge success & recognition” which rafi, kishore & ghantasala got (in their industries). Perhaps manna’s voice ability was considered to be few notches before the “bass factor” of kishore and the ‘sweetness and strength factor’ which rafi and ghantasala had in their voices. And may be as you said ‘ the film industry works in its own way’ – true. You will note that in the ‘padosan’ film ek chatur naar song by kishore and manna – it is said that manna refused to sing the song only on the fact that he has to lose to kishore which, it was told, that manna did not like as he felt he was more classically talented than kishore, but somehow mehmood convinced manna diplomatically stating that, even he (mehmood) is losing in the role (despite his main character in the film) and for his role in the film, & manna is the only singer who can do justice to the song in such a way as was fit for the losing character. Thus, manna got convinced and sang the song. Nevertheless, manna got recognised by govt. – he is recipient of padmabhushan.
Maha devika ji,
Great post. I believe you too are like me, (& certainly ahead as a musician) and good points you have put up. It is correct that people who possess good knowledge of both hindi and telugu, they have immense appreciations for rafi, kishore and ghantasala on equal terms. That was the greatness of those unique singers.
Kishore Kumar, Mannaday and Mukesh has sung many beautiful songs. Ghantasala fans to bring on song each which can beat the following two songs of my favorite singers:
1. Kishore Kumar-Mere Mehboob Qayamat Hogi : http://www.youtube.com/watch?
2. Mannaday: Aaja Sanam Madhur Chandni- v=iBFLBbVU8Ak.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEt3_K9nu2s
3. Mukesh:Yeh Mera Deewanapan Hai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBhrZ5QlZZ8
Light music loverji!
Thanks for liking my singing and for your blessings and well wishes.
I think you are one of the great admirers of Hindustani music. And i think, like me and millions of Rafiji lovers, you also admire this legend of ours.
I’ll very kindly and humbly request all people on this fourm not to under-rate our most beloved singer, through unreaosonable comments which are so far from truth.
Rafiji greteness is unparalleled, un ambigious, his status stands tallest among all playback singers, He’s like a sun from which people get light.
Rafiji! “tussi great ho”
Muhammad Rafi Sahab is one of the greatest gifts of god for the people of hindustan and people knowing Urdu language all over the world. He is always so amazing and Lajawab.
Just listen to the alaap beutifully rendered by Rafi and Lata, complimenting each other
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLr9NN1NL-E&feature=related
Dear light music lover!
I am so pleased to have read some very good remarks about my comments on Muhammad Rafiji.
Believe me i being not so old, as far as my age is concerned, was slightly nervous indeed. It was because; I was worried that may be my sincerest comments might offend somebody.
Like i feel that the unmatched status of Muhammad Rafi Sahab may not be accepted by people who are either envious of his unparalleled singing capability, or whose singers of their likings were not capable enough, or are biased towards him due to the “the reason” i don’t want to mention here as it would be highly inappropriate (Sorry for me to be so fortright).
Now, coming to your query sir!
In point of fact, I am too young to say something about the singing capabilities of Rafiji, as much has been said by music geniuses about his vast proficiencies in the field of music.
Whatever, I have gathered on music during the meager time i have in music or whatever I have I learned in classical singing, I think that people must realize that the Muhammad Rafi Sahab was indeed the most versatile playback singer in Hindustani music. There is no second opinion about the fact that he could sing with utmost ease with immense beauty whatever song he was asked to deliver, and these also included classical as well. But even in classical music Rafiji introduced his own style, which sounded so very gorgeous. He sang the classical hindi song “Madhuban Me Radhika Nache Re” with utmost “Classical Perfection” putting all the ingredients required. No classical singer has ever pointed a finger on his songs ever; rather the Ustads always had the greatest regards and praises on the classical aspects as well. I have never heard any Rafiji songs in which even for a moment he ever went out of notes, even singers as great as Mukesh had such fame, which is on record by music directors.
Do you know that in the song ‘Chalkaye Jam”, Rafiji has molded the word “Jam” each time he uttered in a completely different way. This was only one example of the “Rafi-Magic” the music lovers always speak of, whenever they refer to the Legendry Singer.
Rafiji has sung so many different classical and semi classical songs in various movies with absolute precision. His mystic in this arena of music was once yet again flawless.
The most beautiful song Rafi has sung, in my opinion and my absolute favorite is based on Raag Durbari. This song is well known all over the world as the “Sartaaj Song, which is O-Duniya Ke Rakhwale”. This song is in my opinion the best song rendered superbly by the genius of play-back singing.
Now, one thing more, few people also wrongly think that Rafi had no formal training in singing. On the contrary, Rafi learned classical singing from classical greats Ustaad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan and Ustaad Amir Khan. He also used to do lot of practice and Riaz to further refine his god-gifted voice. He always used to stress upon the importance of classical music in playback singing.
People must also realizes that Muhammad Rafiji was a play-back singer and he only sung classical songs according to the requirements of the music directors, who would use these songs in classical-based movies or according to the situations in the movies.
I’ll be providing some links here where Rafi has sung beautiful classical and semi classical numbers. You judge yourself how “perfect” Rafiji has sung all this songs. Even Mannaday had all the praises and admitted that in one of the duets, he sung along with Rafi, despite his so many rehearsals to competet with “the giant”, he and the music director had unanimously concluded that Rafi Sahab outclassed hi in that particular song.(I am providing the link below, I’ll also try to find out the link for you where Mannaday had accepted that Rafi sang that song better than him, although Rafi sang it for the hero, while mannaday was singing for the ustad-Link No:12).
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03P-4eNIyuA.
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yiG24KHpRA&feature=related.
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyrdzQ8C9lw&feature=related.
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89YoO0ht0y4&feature=related.
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejt-0jMN7mM&feature=fvwrel.
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI6tV7H54l0&feature=related.
7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhP1o6JMRsk&feature=related.
8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyLdgQinxpY.
9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU95UkXAG0E.
10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os3F5J0g8aE.
11. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYrZ2bWRDuM&feature=related.
12. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP-k7QlB1jQ.
The list of classical songs by rafi sahib is vast.
Infact I sing Rafi Sahab Songs often to perfect my singing abilities.
Respected Dear Light Music Loverji! I’ll give some detailed comments on the same subject soon.
Rafiji is the best Indian playback singer ever; he leads all the other singers.
I once again am not shy to admit once again, “I Love You Rafi Sahab”.
Dear Nikitaji,
I saw the linked clip and a few other videos of you singing. You do sing beautifully. Please keep up the good work; God bless.
Dear Maha Devikaji,
Nice reading your observations. As a student of Hindustani classical music, can you please describe here how good Rafi was technically. We know about Rafi’s versatility, voice quality and his ability to adapt to different actors. But we don’t know how good a singer he was in the Hindustani classical music context.
Dear Rafifan1ji,
Okay, let’s call truce and agree to disagree where we do. It was nice to debate with you. Your favorite singers are my favorites too, Ghantasala included. My issue is with the group I mentioned above- those trying to show that Sir Ghantasala has bettered everything that every singer before or after him has ever done and Rafi got lucky that he sang in a language known by more people. You are definitely not one of them.
I am linking a song by a singer we both like; he should have been singing more of them but then the film industry works in its own way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zciOVqRsqxk
i am a trained singer, i also love Muhammad Rafi Sahab songs.
No other singer can sing like him.
He is the best singer in the world.
Please check out my songs at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO7Us8ejxVk
@Mr. Narain. Thanks for seconding me. i must admit that the voice of Muhammad Rafi Sahab always mesmerizes me, whenever i hear his songs, and i must also admit that i have really ‘fallen in love’ with tha magical voice of his. the melody that would be rendered by him is just out of this world, as some angel from heavens is singing.
No disregards for any other singer in the deepest cores of my heart, but i have realized that there is something really extraordinary in his voice. Just listen to his early songs, the depth of voice, narainji! you have rightfully added another good word, which i have so far only heard of my kind of pretty girls only, and the word is charming. Wow what a correct word for Rafi Sahab’s voice, his voice was indeed “the most charming’. Infact, for the last couple of years i have been listening to Rafi songs mostly. the vast versions of rafi songs available on internet is amazing. i am very happy to be in the era of internet where i have also heard some songs of the legendry singer for the first time, and indeed very beautiful songs. Rafi had the quality of making even an ordinary, a simple song, with not much in tune or lyrics sound so sweet. He will always put something extra in each of the songs, sung by him. i newer had known that what a beautiful collection of ghazals does rafiji possesed, amazing. The way rafi sahab sing a ghazal, giving each word, the rafi-magic ( This word used by some of my friend in this forum is also the best word, i think which separates rafi from his comtemporaries).
listening deeply to rafi sahab, i always realize that he had the most beutiful voice ever, for a singer. i am indeed always short of words to express my feelings and deepest regards for him. His shinning face, his smiles, wow, i am infact very jealous from his wife, to have such a sweet personality, such a loving human being with such a divine voice with her. i must say at the end, “I Love You so much Rafiji!”.
post 235…
Mahadevikaji… your analysis is well modulated and perfect.. My views are the same as yours…
Rafi Sahab’s voice has that charm,melody,sweetness,melancholy,versatality,timbre,tone and a superb playback voice which can identfiy Dilipkumar, Johnny walker or Shammikapoor..
keep it up
Narayan
Baar baar Rafi Fan Club
Bangalore
Kinchun das’s post here.
Light music lover ji, just refer to post of One Mr. Kinchun das here, how many lies he utters only god can know. His impatience due to jealousy is clearly known, as a result of which he is speaking such things.
He says – ghantasala was the only music director in that era (I do not know why he is making ghantasala so popular)
Kuhu Kuhu is first sung by rafi (the original is sung by ghantasala and rafi sang it subsequently by hearing the telugu original)
Next, except one or two fans of ghantasala here, I do not see any ghantasala fan discussing here on ghantasala, I only observe many rafi fans discussing on ghantasala here, (even by way of wrong posts – the ghantasala nama smarana is continuing) – do not know why they are increasing the importance of ghantasala so much. The only way to stop this nama smarana of ghantasala is to immediately stop such nama smarana by rafi fans (as I do not find any ghantasala fans here) , otherwise so called rafi fans need to take credit for highlighting the nama smarana/importance of ghantasala here.
contd… light music lover ji
Next, memorials, yes – rafi is vastly popular than all other singers, the reason is well known, due to his great status in the hindi field, which is obviously the national language, I have never seen any telugu denying rafi as a great singer in hindi – never, – i do not know what you wanted to convey by highlighting rafi ji’s rememberances, which no telugu or ghantasala fan has ever denied. No body disputed rafi’s greatness (including ghantasala fans), but few of rafi fans have abused great artists, this one should know – I am not clear what you wanted to convey on this. And for your information this discussion on rafi and ghantasala in this forum is not happening for the past few days (as you highlight some where) – this is for the past many years – just see from post 456 in this thread and you will note how some great music lovers have visited this site and “largely” made a sensible and beautiful discussion on music with their vast respects for rafi and ghantasala. Only last few posts have created an environment in this site by some false music lovers, an undesirable environment which this site never had.
Dear light music lover
To your question regarding my belongingness i would like to clarify that My Name is Mr. Roy and for your information I am from bengal and not from Andhra pradesh. My favourite singers include manna dey, hemant kumar, mohd rafi and kishore kumar. I am employed in Andhra in a reputed company for the past 15 years and during this period (in 2003 after 30 years of his demise) ) I came to know of ghantasala and heard his many songs, including the bhagavad geetha (which is highly popular in andhra) -Before that ghantasala was never known to me and based upon my experience, i place ghantasala as one among the best of the playback singers the country has ever known in terms of talent and skills (popularity is a different factor). I have already told you, that I have heard all the south indian singers, but no south indian singer could sing the “padyam” in telugu films as great as ghantasala. There are some more unique features like that which all together made ghantasala a unique talent and as the most sought after singer and dominating in his era. This is clarification for your query on my domiciile.
Next, I never compared rafi or ghantasala – I was just highlighting their popularity (as compared to all other singers) after their demise of a period more than 30 years – you are wrongly pointing out again at spb, kjy and others bringing them into comparison, who are alive today and are no where contemporary to rafi or ghantasala – this point I again wished to highlight.
Next, to my knowledge spb dominated telugu industry only for 13 years (from 1980 shankarabharanam film onwards – 93 upto roja film) when A R Rehman started breaking the domination. So your statement on spb ruling 35 years is incorrect. There have been many other singers along with spb in 90’s and there was no monopoly. Even the same with KJY too, many keralites regard jayachandran too as the best singer along with KJY, and absolute monopoly could not be found. That was not the case with ghantasala (for whatever reasons it may be)
OK, whatever may be be it NTR, ANR and co. or others, it is a fact that there was no competition for ghantasala (for whatever reasons one may state) and this has to be accepted – the status never changes.
Regarding the article on this true voice, you may have read the post of one Mr. Viswanathan (who had written only one post) and who is believed to have known Mr. Iyer, the author of this article and that clarifies a lot on Mr. Iyer’s intention on the article.
As you claim, sorry to say, there is absolutely no comparison between SPB and rafi , not at all because in my experience rafi is unique than spb and moreover, i again repeat, spb is not a cotemporary to rafi and no comparison can exist between them. I have never seen a comparison between spb and ghantasala, as spb himself strongly denies for comparing him with legends, rafi and ghantasala. and I do not know why the esteemed author wanted to compare spb and rafi – this post is clarified by Mr. viswanathan in his post that there are many tamilians who believe spb is greater than rafi and in that regard this article was written in a tamil forum, which is reproduced here and is just one of the similar tamil articles doing round the way in those forums highlighting spb as great, jayachandran as great etc.etc.
i have been following the long discussion that has been going on for quite some time on this great forum and have indeed read almost all the comments being forwarded by various aspects of life.
i was indeed very much pleased to have found that there are people even in the younger generation who still has got so much taste for the music, not only that but the liking for the old music has been so astronishing.
People have even quoted few great legends of the past.
i am very proud of the fact that i am a hindustani girl,although i am in my teens, yet i have greatest linings for the old songs from 1940-1980.
My mother’s tongue is Teluguwhile my father, being from allahabad, speak a very good urdu(or hindi). we usually speak telugu in our home.
i have also got the great quality to judge the songs i hear, not merely by the lyrics and melody but even deeper and meager aspect of the songs. i also sing and have won almost all the inter-region competiotions. I am also learning classical from a renound ustad, very famous in the region to which i belong.
The comments on this form have been very knowledgable, while some were rather merely entertaining while few were rediculous, ugly and lacked substance.During the discussion on this forum, initially a comparison was made between hindi singer kishore kumar and muhammad rafi, then all of a sudden, the arguments swiftly drifted towards two giants of hindustani cinema , the ghantasala guru and Muhammad Rafi Sahab.
i will try to give my own humble opinion here tryinf my best to remain neutal as i have been a greatest fan of all the 3 singers mentioned above, as i have been hearing all the good-music, may it be south or hindi. i always appreciated good music without any bias towards the two different languages, as both the languages are my own hindustani languages and my parental languages.
First of all i will like to comment on kishore kumar. he had a beautiful voice, quite different from all the other singers. As far as i know he has been singing from the late 40’s, probably from 1948(please forgive me and correct me, if i am wrong). As far as my understanding is concerned, Kishore was initially not very interested in music or one can say he was not fully concentrating on singing as he was also intested in acting.
That had been the main reason that he could not make a mark for himself in music initially, although his elder brother ashok kumar was an famous and established actor and a producer himself, hence it was not difficult for him to get good songs.
kishore only became popular in mid-70’s when the music trend changed,swaying away from melody to more western and hip hop songs. kISHORE BEING A JOLLY PERSON would easily sing such kinds of songs. he later on improved on his voice and sung beutiful sad and emotional songs and ghazals. that was the era of amitabh bhachan who had extraordinary heavy voice. since he was the no:1 actor, kishore who also had heavy voice, got the oppurtunity to sing for him and became very popular himself. Although he had no formal training in music especially classical, yet his god gifted voice had likings for so many fans of him.
Now coming to ghantasala, he was a great musician, a well trained singer in classical music, had a sweet voice with lot of range. He used his immense talent as a great music director and extraordinary singing capability to sing the most beautiful songs in soth film and music industry. he sanf various versions of singing in his carreer and single handedly, rose the south-music to heights never seen before. He was inface the most prolific singer of telugu songs.
Lastly coming to Muhammad rafi, i very frankly would admit that he was the most versatile singer among the above 3 singers mentioned above. I do not in my farthest imagination agree to some friends who compare him with kishore kumar. Although, i too like kishore kumar songs very musch, but technically he was not a match for the talents of ghantasala or rafi.
people who think that he was ever better than rafi, lives in a fool’s-paradise. with all due respect, such friends do not know anything about singing, they only hear the sounds just superficially. If they again hear the songs sung by both Kishore and Rafi or the Duets in greater depth and absolute non-partialty or not being bias towards any one, they will themselves realize that infact Rafi had always been more melodious and charming and technically perfect in all those songs. Kishore only different voice, got him such a liking amonst his fans. Although, i may sound odd but i must say here that technically, kishore kumar was a much better singer than Mukesh Chandur Mathur. At the same time i also admit that he has even sung somne of the songs better than The Legendry Lata Mangasker, like his song from kati patang where the same song has been sung my lata and kishore in the movie and kishore got more admiration. or the song merey naina sawan bhado, although a semi classical song, kishore has subdued lata in that song with his beautiful voice and hard work.
Comparing ghantasala with rafi is not also O.K.BECAUSE BOTH WERE SINGERS OF DIFFERENT languages.both were legends in their own field. despite my greatest regard for ghantasala guruji, i feel that the voice of rafi sahab was more sweeter and more melodious.The SAME TUNE of the songs which have been sung by both in their repective languages of singing, are equally best in their own versions. Ghantasala fans think that he has sung it better while rafi fans think that rafi has sung it great. the great admiration for both the singers by their respective fans can not think the singer of their liking to be less than the other.
rafi has fully fulfilled all the “lawazmat” in the song chull ud ja re panchi, had he been instructed by his music director he could have sung that song in the highest pitch or notes possible by a human voice, as singing in highest notes was one of the reason for which he got such an appreciation. at the same time, i like kuhu kuhu version in telugu more.
one more thing, i think that rafi or lata had never said that ghantasala guruji is a better singer. they might have said out of respect that ghantasala is a great singer. if somebody claim otherwise, he or she should provide a link as a proof, which i still think does not exist.
in order to conclude, i shall like to very humbly say that Rafiji was much greater singer than kishore kumar ganguly, and comparing both of these is just rediculous and false belief. Ghantasala Guru was the best telugu singer, while Muhammad Rafi was the best Hindi singer of all times. Rafi’s only edge over Ghantasala guruji was his immense voice modulation, which would always give the impression on the big-screen that the hero himself was singing, his sweeteness of voice and melody, and the specially god-gifted famous,”the Rafi Magic” which made him such a vastly admired singer in whole hindustan.
Lastly, Ghantasla Guru Sahabji has really sung the song Siva Sankari beautifully, and really his voice resembles the greatest hindi classical play back singer, as mentioned rightly in some previous post of a friend.
I my remarks, i have only mentioned what i felt, people has all the right to believe in contrary, and i did not intend to hurt any body’s feelings. These were only my most-sincere comments.
Abhishek,
You don’t want to argue? Then what were you doing here all the while? Singing praises of Rafi? Or finding new dimensions to Rafian singing?
If you want to keep on speaking ‘truth’ and propagating it, please carry on; but please spare us. Why don’t you place the link of the Ghantasala site (for those who may care) here and leave us all in peace. I would also request yourself and your esteemed State-mates to leave the sites meant for/ dedicated to other singers as well (the Jayachandran site for instance). Many of the South film music fans are getting sick of the 10 letter word. These acts would also leave you with more time to spread the ‘truth’ about the singer with ‘the most majestic voice’ ever in his own site. Thank you.
Dear Rafifan1ji,
I don’t know if you have noticed the title of this article or read the contents fully. The respected author (who I understand is no more) basically tries to show us how and why Rafi is a great singer. He also tries to free certain SPB fans from their mis-notion that their idol is greater than Rafi. If you notice, the only singer he pits Rafi against happens to be SPB- again chiefly because he was addressing his article to South film music followers and especially SPB fans. Another reason why he wanted to pit these two singers against each other might be because SPB is the closest if we search around for the ‘singing allrounder’.
Nowhere does the author compares Rafi with any other South Indian singer. He mentions some other names; he also writes about KJY’s opinion on Rafi. He doesn’t write that any of those singers were inferior to Rafi.
Now just look at what happened to the thread. Some zealots from Andhra Pradesh joins in un-invited announcing themselves as Rafi-fans but with the sole agenda of teaching the world that their ‘garu’ is the best singer that ever was- far better than Rafi, far better than Dr. BMK, KJY or anyone ever sang ‘bhooth or bhavishya’. Among the many funny arguments, the best one I’ve come across is that ‘the- author- knew- Ghantasala- is- better- so- no- mention-of -his- name’ one (this is when the author never tries to compare the South singers who have been mentioned- except SPB- with Rafi at all). So, to cut a long story short, began the Rafi V Ghantasala thread.
Now, if you want me to focus only on Rafi V Ghantasala, let me tell you that that is not what the author himself didn’t intend to do with his article. Again we are debating music here and there is more to music than history (50-60s’, ‘dominating’, ‘keeping at bay’ etc). I don’t think a well-informed music follower will want to compare Rafi with Ghantasala simply because they were not similar type of singers at all; it’s like comparing a grammarian with a romantic in literature. A better comparison would be Rafi- SPB (as the author does) or Ghantasala- Manna Dey. If you have a different opinion, please let me know where Rafi and Ghantasala converge as singers (except ’50-60s’, ‘dominating’, ‘3 decades’ and the like). If I compared Ghantasala with Rafi in my previous post, it’s only to highlight the differences than the similarities.
Since you (like every Ghantasala fan in this thread) highlighted the 30+ years’ domination and the allied stuff, let me add something what I’ve posted previously. Apart from the historical/mythological thing, there was another factor that helped Ghantasala’s cause. His heroes (NTR, ANR &Co) survived for long as ‘evergreen’ heroes and the movie buffs naturally expected them to have the Ghantasala voice when they sang. There are other factors too. The Telugu film industry catered to the State of Andhra Pradesh alone and the Ghantasala voice is easily identified by the typical Telugite as his own. I don’t know if you are from that part of the country; if not I would request you to speak to a few from those parts, notice their voice and tell me what you think. Please compare the scenario with Hindi film industry and HFM which is followed by people from Kashmir to Kerala. A voice to be hugely accepted in HFM had to have characteristics that makes is universally likable. Rafi, Lata and to a lesser extent Kishore have/had it in their voices. Again, if you look at the SFM, the male singers do dominate over a pretty long period; KJY has been the no1 in Malayalam for the last 40+ years; similar is the case with SPB in the other 3 languages for about 35 years.
Ghantasala didn’t sing very many songs in Malyalam, may be 10 at the most and no-one knows about them. In Tamil he may have been prolific especially in the pre-TMS era. The fact that this singer sang in non-Telugu languages doesn’t mean much nor does the fact that no foreign singer sang in Telugu during his reign. We have similar situation in recent period too. KJY sang in all the South Indian languages while SPB& Co never sang many in Malyalam.
You also highlighted the Ghantasala memorials in Andhra Pradesh. What do you have to say about the Rafi-centric activities (which could even out-number the Ghantasala ones) in the same State and the hard-core Rafi fans from the State. If Ghantasala were so great and so versatile why do the Telugu people (some of them in the least) want another singing icon for themselves?
Light music lover
I am replying since you have addressed the post to me (belatedly for reasons unknown) – Please remember sir, I have utmost respect for you, I am least interested in arguing as I am not a person who is interested in proving points by arguing with all nonsense and false points. Your post does not support published articles in newspapers on ghantasala, even it does not support the write up in encyclopaedia – We speak facts based on published articles and after hearing songs with our ears (not by listening to analysis of others please) , and we do not post based on imagination, so my request is to kindly and humbly note that we are totally incapable of defending ourselves against posts which do not contain truth in them, as we know only to speak truth and are incapable of arguing against false arguments. So my request is kindly leave us dear light music lover ji and please forgive us with large heart if we have hurt you in any manner.
Dear Rafifan 1
You have put up a beautiful post.
But, again I too request sincerely, such a great music lover like you, to please ensure that arguments do not take ugly turn (from others), – as I know music lovers and true rafi fans like you cannot be undecent – My apprehension is great posts like one posted by true music lovers are like “sun” before some “dim fading lights” which are trying to point finger at the “sun” – they are not at all being properly understood by people who are incapable of understanding them – so putting the truthful facts and evidences serve no purpose, so my request is to kindly put an end to the argument sir.
One more point missed light music lover ji,
One could never find any TMS or other tamil or kannada or malayalam singers songs in telugu films as long as ghantasala lived, but you can find numerous songs of ghantasala in tamil, kannada as well as malayalam (in 50’s) – This point can be added/read somewhere in between in the above post at relevant place.
Dear light music lover,
There might be better and greater singers than rafi ji and ghantasala ji, but unless they are visible, rafi and ghantasala continue to be greater. I have heard TMS, KJY, MBK, SPB and others. How much TMS is remembered today similar to rafi ji or ghantasala ? TMS is fondly called as tamil ghantasala in tamilnadu. KJY and SPB cannot be discussed here at all as they are current singers, very much alive, but rafi and ghantasala are artists who have passed 30 years back. How can one compare artists who passed away 30 years back with artists living in the current era ? There should be some logic in comparing singers too. 50’s & 60’s as was rafi so was ghantasala in the south – the discussion is only rafi vs ghantasala – not on KJY or SPB – It does not matter whether spb or kjy or others are greater than rafi or ghantasala and their discussion is totally irrelevant as they were never contemporary singers to either rafi or ghantasala. Let us see how many singers enjoy a vast popularity and rememberance after decades of their passing away. They can be just counted on fingers. Rafi, ghantasala belong to such category and naturally there is scope for arising for a comparison between them. It is a different subject who surpasses another or who is great, but discussion on them after a period of 3 decades of their demise itself confirms how unique and special they were, certainly you, me and others cannot measure the greatness of them.
“A singer with all the capabilities that Ghantasala possessed would have to be content with a few classical/ devotional songs” – Disagreed as facts speak totally otherwise.
Do you think telugu film industry had only classical and devotional songs and survived only on them ? Were there no romantic films or any other features there ? Is it possible even in imagination. Please think sir, before making such comments. I hope you know that ghantasala ruled 30 years (until his death – a achievement which no other singer had) without competition in that field – was the lead playback singer (not classical musician) I think you should first know about telugu industry.
We rafi fans do definitely believe that rafi was the best, but kishore fans have their say too, this must be remembered and I have seen many kishore fans not accepting rafi as the best (see now nobody should start criticising kishore fans) but I do not think there was any opposition for ghantasala (he was never surpassed or faced any competition as long as he was there) in telugu and he is remembered as amara gayaka with numerous programmes being conducted on his birthdays and anniversaries every year (as newspaper reports confirm) – I have not seen TMS or yester year artists currently enjoying such popularity (even on their date of birthday) – whatever it may be the popularity is currently evident (if you read the latest newspapers – and I am not just bluffing) So in a nutshell, rafi and ghantasala were definitely unique among the playback singers ever produced by the indian film industry, they were foundational greats for indian playback singing and to whom all the subsequent great singers have looked unto.
Muhammad Rafi is the extraordinarily talented singer with lot of expressions.
Better singers than ghantasala are available in south, but no one better than Rafi has ever been there.
Post 2467- Abhishek,
“remember, dear light music lover, rafi fans and kishore fans are not fools like you to arrive at some immature conclusions. the conclusions are based upon hearing number of songs presented here in this forum and in kishore forum. it is just not like your analysis who just want to prove a point by catching some senseless points.”
The problem with these so-called fans is that they heard only Ghantasala and not the other Classical greats in the South- those who sang in films and those who didn’t. Had they listened to TMR or TMS or Dr.BMK as often, they would have realised that there is nothing too extra-ordinary or special about Ghantasala’s singing or his voice. In all probability they had a taste of the typical South classical singing for the first time via Ghantasala and they are not able to come out of their honeymoon.
“exactly, voice similar to ghantasala is a rare gift which cannot be found. that is where you are. that is what you have agreed to in an indirect way and indirectly confirming that voice similar to rafi is more found. – great analysis.”
Please don’t try to kid me into believing that there are no Ghantasala clones in Andhra Pradesh. There would be a few and they would have no takers when it comes to play back singing. It is not that the Ghantasala voice is so heavenly that humans can’t copy it; rather it is that that voice is simply un-cool for current generation. A singer with all the capabilities that Ghantasala possessed would have to be content with a few classical/ devotional songs here and there whether they are in the Telugu film industry or elsewhere. The Rafi school of singing is alive not because it is easy to be there, rather it is because that style is ever cool and that voice just refuse to die away.
“did his strengths requirement lasted for 30 years keeping all other singers at bay ?”
Yes it did. The change that swept HFM in the early 50s had to wait for another 20-25 years to take place in the SFM. When historical/devotional films ruled in Hindi, Saigal & co had their merry days. With the advent of younger, handsomer heroes and with the change to more contemporary and peppy subjects, they had to make way for the filmier voices and suppler singing styles. However the Telugu film industry had to wait another 2 decades for a similar change. BTW, ‘keeping everyone at bay for 30 years’ is not Ghantasala’s exclusive domain. KJY and SPB have done that in a more competitive era.
I WANT TO MENTION A FEW POINTS HERE,
1. HINDI MUSIC IS FAR MORE DIVERSE THAN SOUTH MUSIC. HINDI MUSIC IS NOT BASED ON PURE CLASSICAL AND SEMI CLASSICAL SONGS AS MOST OF THE SOUTH MUSIC IS. THATS WHY SOUTH MUSIC HAS NOT MADE SUCH AN IMPACT ON COMMON MAN. THERE ARE ONLY A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE THAT LIKE SOUTH MUSIC.
SOUTH MUSIC DIRECTORS MOSTLY STEAL TUNES FROM HINDI FIM MUSIC, THIS IS EVIDENT FROM THE SONG CHUL UD JA RE PUNCHI AND KUHU KUHU VERSIONS IN TELUGU.
GHANTASALA BEING A MUSIC DIRECTOR, MADE HIS INFLUENCE ONLY BY NOT ALLOWING OTHER SINGERS TO SING, THIS MONOPLY HE CARRIED ON FOR ALMOST 30 YEARS. AFTER HIM OTHER SINGERS WERE ABLE TO SING.
GHANTASLALA BEING THE ONLY MUSIC DIRECTOR, IN THAT ERA WOULD TAKE A POPULAR MUSIC COMPOSITION FROM HINDI CINEMA AND BASED ON THAT PARTICULAR SONG, HE WOULD MAKE A SONG ON THAT RAGA, AND THEREAFTER SING IT HIMSELF. POPULAR EXAMPLES ARE CHUL UD JA RE PANCHI AND KUHU KUHU SOUTH-VERSIONS.
THE SONG OF GHANTASLA WHICH HAS BEEN PRAISED BY A FEW SOUTH-MUSIC LOVERS, SIVA SANKARA HAS NOTHING SPECIAL IN IT. MANNADAY COULD HAVE SUNG THAT PARTICULAR SONG MUCH BETTER. EVEN, MANNADAY HAD SHOWN SUCH A GREAT INFLUENCE ON GHANTASALA, THAT THIS IS SO OBVIOUS IN SIVA SANKARA SONG WHERE IT SOUNDS AS IF MANNADAY IS SINGING, BECAUSE GHANTASALA HAS PERFECTLY COPIED HIS VOICE.
THERE ARE MANY CLASSICAL SINGERS WHO CAN SING CLASSICAL SONGS BETTER THAN GHANTASALA.
GHANTASALA FANS ARE CHELLENGED TO ATLEAST NAME ONE GHAZAL SUNG BY GHANTASALA THAT IS AS BEAUTIFULLY SUNG AS ANY OF THE GHAZALS SUNG BY THE GREAT MUKESH OR TALAT MEHMOOD.
HAS HE EVER SUNG A SONG SUNG AS BEAUTIFULLY AS KISHORE KUMAR, PLEASE BRING A GHAZAL AS BEAUTIFULLY SUNG AS GHUNGROO KI TARAH, BAJTA HI RAHA HUN ME. OK AS YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO FIND ONE, LET OTHER SOUTH-SINGERS BE INCLUDED FOR YOUR HELP.
TELLING FALSE IS SO EASY. GHANTASALA NEVER HAS GONE TO 21 OR 23 NOTES WHILE MUHAMMAD RAFI WOULD MOSTLY GO TO NOTES 30-35.
GHANTASALA WHILE SINGING WOULD SOUND AS HE IS CRYING, HE LACKED THE SMOOTHNESS OF VOICE. MOSTLY HE SUNG BE SURA.
GHANTASALA HAS NO HAVE THE WORTH OF BEING COMPARED TO A NEWER SINGER, MUSIC COMPOSER LIKE ANU MALIK, WHAT TO TALK OF LEGENDS OF HINDI FILM AND MUSIC INDUSTRY.
NEXT TIME BHUSHAN SHOULD BRING ALONG SONGS(WHICH WOULD OBVIOUSLY BE A COPY-CAT OF SOME HINDI SONG AS SOUTH-MD’S ARE VERY GOOD IN STEALING HINDI-SONGS MELODIES) SUNG BY THE SO CALLED POPULAR SOUTH SINGERS AND THEN I WILL BRING HINDI-SONGS, AND HINDI SONGS WILL WIN FOR SURE AS ORIGINAL IS ORIGINAL.
ANU MALIK, AR REHMAN, AND HIMESH RISHAMYA ARE FAR BETTER SINGER THAN ALL THE SINGERS YOU HAVE MENTIONED INCLUDING GHANTASALA.
NO BODY SHOULD GET OFFENDED BY THE FACTS I HAVE JUST MENTIONED AS FACTS REMAIN FACTS, AND TRUTH IS BITTER.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yqhowV-Fhw&feature=related
Just hear the ragas, uttered by Rafi Sahab, also hear the bhajan.
http://www.Duniya Na Bhaye Mohe ab to bulale
Ghantasala is a good telugu singer. Only? SP Balasubramunium is a better singer than Ghantasala.
Muhammad Rafi is far ahead of Ghantasala in singing quality, surr, taan, ley, alaap, melody, expression, voice modulation, range, smoothness and softness. If ghantasala do riyaaz for a million years even, he could not be a better singer than Kishore Kumar. As a musician, I think Himesh Rishamya is a better , while classically, Mannaday was a much better singer.Rafi is Best
Dear gentlemen kishore fans,
if you are a sincere kishore fan you have to do a lot in the
kishore kumar site as the activities in the site is very limited.
there is a write up about kk “woh meri taraf yun chale aa rahe”
published on 19.12.2010 and only one comment had appeared
during a period of four and half months!
I believe the only activity is going on that site is the comparison
between rafi saab and gantasalaji – even kk is out in whose name
the site is supposed to be.
Dr. Chandrasekhar and Mr. Bhushan
I am really thankful to both of you, very much, for maintaining the decency and decorum. Hats off to both of you sir’s.
2517 – sardeep kumar kohli
Our great appreciations to your post sardeep kumar kohli ji, – we come across such “rare true rafi fans” and please believe our comments are only aimed at “fake false rafi fans claiming to be supporting rafi” and this thing is known to all true rafi fans as mentioned above. What you have said is absolutely correct and hope things continue in a better way.
Meanwhile, I request the moderator to kindly ensure that undecent comments are removed as they are not fit to find a place in a site of the great singer rafi ji – this has a scope for giving a wrong impression in relation to the site itself.
Chandrasekhar and Bhushan, Yes, take Abhishek advice and just fuck-off from this site as you people sound like gays and also take the ass of Gandusala(Ghantasala)
Dr. Chandrasekar! First of all thanks for your nice comments and your opology. You must have a big heart and sincere soul to say sorry. Believe me after reading your comments, i now have the greatest regards and respect for you. People like you are rapidly decreasing from this cruel world. Believe me i am so pleased that i have prayed to the God that may be some day, i might be able to meet you and kiss the hands of such a great personality. You must also be a good doctor because you are so pious by heart. Please do not stop your comments as they are a source of such a vaste knowledge on indian music and playback singing. i will also request every body in this forum to just appreciate the singers who have been entertaining us for so long rather than comparing them. All of those legends were equally good in their respective fields and would not like us to fight over trivial issues. Also shall we respect each other likings and should not impose such on each-other. Listen to the songs of those two giants and cherish their memories as they are no more with us. Love to Muhammad Rafi and Ghantasala and all other greats, the precious stones of hindi film and music industry.
Abhishek,
Out of respect for you, I too stop my posts. Truth has been revealed now and fake posts exposed.
Dear Sardeep kumar kohli – 2510
If my comments have really hurt you, I am sorry, that was never my intention and if you go through my previous posts, you will know how well we have carried our discussions.
Next, I think you will appreciate that even other people are like you, if your idol is shown at length – you feel. I think you will agree same feeling will be felt by fans of other great singers (who have really incomparable genius achievements in indian playback singing), when you people behave in a similar way, The problem actually started from these kind of people only – showing others at a lower level than rafi always and as a consequence of which the result was this. Unless rafi fans felt the heat, they could not realise that fans of other singers too felt the same thing earlier. What do you say for this ? One rule for you and one rule for others. I hope such kind of mentality is put right in the proper direction. See, kishore kumar fans had never problem with ghantasala fans, despite numerous posts on ghantasala there – even there was lot of problem with rafi fans only there too, why rafi fans are always encountering such things ? Just honestly analyse dear friend and nothing more I wish to state in this regard, as i know you are intelligent enought to understand what we wanted to convey.
Dear Friend Abhishek
I take your advise, as the truth has been exposed to music lovers now, so nothing is left to tell.
Dr. Chandrasekhar and mr. Bhushan
My request is kindly do not take forward the arguments, as your messages are not being understood by people who cannot understand, So no point in discussing. Kindly put an end to this, You both alone are capable of that, as others are not so.
Muhammad Rafi was a muslim, i think that is the reason you have spoiled this website with your poisonous views. you are such a narrow minded and biased person. Ghantasala would only sing in -1 to +1 octaves, he was just an ordinary singer , not very well-known, not recognised anywhere except south, had no voice perfect for singing, a rubbish, ruthless, tasteless, melodiousless, surrless, taanless, worthless, mindless singer that has spoiled the music industry with his filthy songs.
Rafi was far far ahead from Ghantasala in surr, taal, ley, melody, range, versatility. octaves, shifting notes, voice modulations, rythm, expression and most of all had honey-dipped melodious voice while Ghantasala voice was like a donkey singing.
One thing more, I accept your challenge, i also will consult delhi police as i have the fear that you might kill me by inviting me, i’ll soon be sending my address at your e-mail after having security arrangements for me as i am not a common-person like you are, i am quite famous, i’ll also request you to invite some hindi musicians as well, not all south mds, otherwise i can inndividually able to shutt all the people of your calliber in any debate any-time, any where.
You losers can only like a rubbish singer like Ghantasala. No body listening to hindi music knows him, only pathetic people like you are trying to glorify a worst singer. He is not even the dust of Rafi’s feet. In order to compete Rafi, he has to Riaz for a thousand years and to be born for so many times again and again. I liked somebody’s comment,” Muhammad Rafi is the institute of singing and a university of playback and classical singing of which Ghantasala a poor failing student.
@bhushan miryala! I fully agree with sardeep kumar comments. Please avoid disgracing our favorite singer Mohammed Rafi, who was without any doubt the best singer in the history of music. He was NO: 1, other singers counting starts from No 2. onwards.
1. Muhammad Rafi.
2. Lata Mangeshkar.
3. Surraya.
4. Suman Kulyanpur.
5. Noor Jehan.
6. Talat Mehmood.
7. Kishore Kumar.
8. Sonu Nigam.
9. SP Blasubramunium.
10. Ghantasala(may be as i have not heard his songs)
@bhushan, dr. chandrashekar. I am writing in this forum for the first time. i am really amased that you have just multiplied with zero, the great efforts that has been put into the hindi music by all the singers and music directors. You have disgraced all those people who had given away their whole lives in entertaining us for so many years. Your comments clearly shows that you want to impose your ideas over the people without having much substance in your allegations. If you like some singers or musicians of your own choce, does it mean that you people start insulting the great legends which we people respect and admire so much. If you relly want to praise your singers or whoever, there are separate forums dedicated for that purpose or if there are none, try to make your own for the singers of your likings, rather than coming to this decent forum and passing derrogatory statements against the legendry singer muhammad rafi sahab, which all people knowing music not only respect but has great regards for him as a human being. My heart is bleeding and my eyes are full of tears, after hearing the recent comments by respected bhushanji. Is it right to hurt the sentiments of the fans of Rafi sahab all over the world, only to glorify the singer or musicians of your likings. Please, i advice you to have a bigger heart and acknowledge others ideas and likings as well. There is no second opinon that hindi music directors have produced such beautiful melodies and various singers have beautified the great lyrics with their beautiful voices. We Rafi fans also has great admiration for south people and south singers. Even after reading such flase allegations of people like these, we still believe and will always believe that Muhammed Rafi Sahab was the best hindi play-back singer (I am short of vocabulary in order to praise the legendry singer). we do not think that your singher is any aspect better than the institute of hindi singing, Muhammad Rafi. If you don’t like him, (which a true unbiased music lover can not), than narrate your false comments on Ghantasla site or make one for him. Do not, plz heart our sentiments, because there are people who respect Rafa Sahab much more than any body else. Kindly try to limit your liking to yourself.
@Bhushan! First of all let me mention in a few words about my impression about you having read your comments.
I think you are a mere cheap, illeterate, un-educated person who has no regard for the legendry singer Muhammad Rafi. You have just shown your lowest mentallity. i also don’t want to fell with a conversation with such an unethical person like you are. You have not only disgraced the greatest singer that india has ever produced, but you also have used some dirty-filthy language against hindi music. I suppose you are some telugu person and has got loads of bias towards Hindi music, hindi speaking people and most of all, hindi music. You being partial are praising south music that it is more difficult, you even do not have any knowledge of octaves.You have uttered some filthy comments that Rafi would sing in octaves 2 at the most and Ghantasala to 21. What about that in your comment, there are 90 octaves in music and Muhammad Rafi would easily sing in Octave 100 while Ghantasala (Gandusala-in hindi), would only reach (minus) -3. Just by writing just rubbish things like you have done and poisoning this great site with your so bias comments would it ever mean that the people who know music would accept your rubbish talks.
Now, if you have guts read the following comments, with clear mind, not to be biased towards a muslim singer, open your eyes as well as your heart and forget narrow-mindedness:L
1. Hindi based music is far more richer, far more melodious, far more better than the south music.
2. Muhammad Rafi, is the best play-back singer india has ever pproduced.
3. Ghantasala can not match Rafi in singing as he had a rough, flat voice.
4. Not many people has heard of Ghantasala. Many people have asked in this forum that who was ghantasala.
5. The singers you admire because all of them are south singers.
6. South movies, one can not watch with family and children, and their songs as as nude as their actresses are.
7. Nowhere has Rafi praised Ghantasla as he never heard of this name ever in his life.
8. There are far better classical singers in hindi music then ghantasala and the other named you have mentioned.
9 Somebody has rightly mentioned somewhere that “it is better to commit suicide than listening to ghantasla.he was the most pathetic singer that has invaded planet earth.
10. Muhammad Rafi, is far better and accomplished singer than ghantasala and all the other south singers.
11. Hindi music, musicians, songs, singers are all far better than south counterparts.
12. All of the singers and others including you are mere shame.
13. Ghantasala is the most besurra singer of his kind. A “patha huwa dhol”
I know my comments might not get a place in this forum as i have exposed a person like you to the people.
Gulshan kumar ji, – you are correct.
“Comparing Rafi and Ghantasala is not fair. Both were legends in their own fields, A singer has not born of Rafi Shab’s caliber in Hindi Music while same is the case with Ghantasala in telugu”
But would like to differ in other points – My honest opinion is as was rafi for hindi playback singing, so was ghantasala for telugu in equal terms and sure as you said classically better than rafi, as his training was sophisticated and which skill he could fully utilise in his career as playback singer. This is what I feel and would like to disagree that rafi alone was versatile and best, as for ghantasala too even a telugu music lover like me thinks so.
Bhushan ji,
Immense respects for you sir, I can understand your patience, as some wrong posts in your name has been posted in this forum as well as other sister forum, which are strongly condemned.
I hope you continue to enlighten with some great musical inputs (as you did earlier) and kindly do not enter into dialogues with persons who does not even know about abcd in music.
Comparing Rafi and Ghantasala is not fair. Both were legends in their own fields, A singer has not born of Rafi Shab’s caliber in Hindi Music while same is the case with Ghantasala in telugu. Rafi mother tongue was not telugu. While Ghantasala could not probably speek hindi. If you compare Muhammad Rafi enflish songs with Madonna, it does not make sense, as engish was not his domain. Similarly, its unfair to compare poor Ghantasala Guruji with Muhammad Rafi. Similar to the above debate, people who are fond of Kishore Kumar voice has stated that Kishore sang better the songs which were sung by Rafi Sahab as well. Actually, this is subjective, since Kishore fans think that their singer is better than all the others while Ghantasala fans will never ever accept their defeat in the hands of Legendry singer Rafi Sahab. People who like Hemant Kumar or Mahindra Kapoor will say that they are indeed the best. Hence the debate will always go on and on. Similarly few Ghantasala fans have commented on a few hindi songs of Rafiji, which were also sung by Ghantasala in telugu and they trying to elaborate that ghantasala versions are better. The thing is whoever sung the original one is always the best. People may in future better the particular song by, for example using latest technologies, music and voice modulations, but the original remains always original and copy can never be better than the original one. If Rafi Sahab has sung the song originally by the words, Chal Ur Ja Re Panchi which is later on also sung in telugu version, the fact will remain that the original will always make the mark as the first impression is the ever-lasting impression. Their are classical singers who sings classical extremely well but it does not mean that he can sing a qaqli equally well. The best singer must have a nice voice, which should be sweet, melodious, has a wide range, can express the wordings, must be versatile, have classical training, do lot of riaz, can sing all types and versions of singing with equal beuty and ease. There had been many singers which were good in one aspect of singing while others were good in others. e.g. Talat Mehmmod voice suites soft and sad songs and ghazals, similarly Mukesh would sing straight-forward songs with great melody very well due to his golden voice, mannaday was good for classical, while Ghantaslaji was nice in classically rendered song. But i find only one singer who had all the qualities mentioned above and many more, and that was without any doubt, the legendry singer, the institute of singing, the greatest hindi singer ever lived, the most melodious, the most versatile, no most sureela, the classically trained, the all-rounder, and he is none other than Muhammad Rafi Sahab. He is loved by everybody for his devotion, dedication and his sincerity. He was the greatest singer ever lived, from whome all other singers would always take inspiration, who was a bench-mark in singing and whose singing has been a litmus -test for the singing ability of any other singer. He was the undisputed king of playback singing, the legend, the greatest among the greats, The one-The Only, The undisputed, singer of the millenium, Muhammad Rafi.
2493 – Dr. Chandrasekhar ji, – good post, I was just out of station so could not post for few days. I strongly condemn, as a musician and music lover, some wrong posts, which are not appreciated by any true music lovere.
No answer has been received for your post by Mr. Narain shankar or shankar narain swami, whoever may be (if he is genuine), as there is a great risk in answering that post.
2491 – Mr. Narain shankar or shankar narain swami – as the case may be, — An open challenge to you
Could you kindly confirm your identity, – I am a trained carnatic classical musician (with more than 15 years of experience) from Hyderabad, Govt. College of Music having done diploma course and have performed in all india radio, Hyderabad for past so many years. If you are interested, i shall arrange a meeting with ‘a’ grade artists (both carnatic and hindusthani – I expect you know what is such grade for such musicians) on 28th Aug, 2011, at hyderabad (venue will be intimated later) i also expect to have a meeting with M Balamuralikrishna, the great carnatic doyen of southern music, and if it is convenient to you, I shall also arrange a meeting with him, if it is possible for you.
You had hinted something about southern classical singing – I will make you listen from the very mouth of none other than M Balamuralikrishna, that one who can sing southern classical music can sing any other music in world (this statement he has made many number of times earlier) and not vice-versa i.e. if you sing any other music form, it is not so easy to do justice to southern classical singing.
Pl. give me your address and phone number with your identity and I shall, after I receive the confirmation regarding the above meeting, shall send a personal invitation for you to attend the meeting and have your enlightened views on music. You claim to have 50 years of experience in music, it will be a great fortune for us to have such musician amongst us and hear some words which would be enlightening and also to know your views about ghantasala and rafi there in indian playback singing. If necessary, I shall make a special mention in the invitation that you are going to grace the ocassion and provide some valuable inputs on chakravaka and kannada ragas, which you said cannot be experimented with.
Regarding ghantasala and rafi, – we as musicians and music lovers are admirers of both, and have never posted any comments which were in any way showed any non-respect to these legends. It is you and few others who have used such words against “personalities” regarded as institution of music.
The following para is only for “you and your false friends here” and I feel disturbed to write this here as a “musician” but forced to respond to your post here.
Next, coming to playback singing, as i had mentioned earlier, regarding rafi’s voice range, you can refer my earlier posts – telugu film classical songs are relatively far tougher in terms of notes, compositions, octaves, range etc. and ghantasala’s songs are even tougher than rafi’s songs – rafi’s songs are only in the range of 2 and half octaves (even high pitch songs i.e extending only to 14-17 notes) whereas ghantasala songs easily extend to 17-21 notes, his range is more powerful than rafi (who did not have a voice range of ghantasala and yesudas as well in the south and also of balamuralikrishna) There is absolutely no comparison between rafi and ghantasala in classical singing, the former just met the basic requirement of classical singing in hindi film world and nothing beyond that – this is my honest opinion. Southern film singers were “specialists par excellence” with ghantasala being the foremost in his overall achievements as a playback legend, even other singers Mahalingam, K J Yesudas, Sirkazhi govindarajan, T M sounderrajan, K Jayachandran, Balamuralikrishna (in playback singing ) in the south are far ahead of mohd rafi ji in terms of classical songs in playback singing (leave ghantasala) – Rafi’s classical songs just fade before all these great singers in the south (not only ghantasala for your information) – Please do remember that rafi was a intelligent man to have said – I cannot sing like ghantasala ((pl. do not twist this again), With due exception to rafi’s songs in medium octave and to some extent in some higher notes, in my experience, I have never seen an experienced classical musician appreciating mohd rafi ji – (his medium range songs are definitely more appreciated than his many of other songs)
As Dr. Chandrasekhar ji states, you can please visit website of ghantasala to find the live audio recording there by none other than M. Balamuralikrishna (regarded as the greatest southern classical doyen) talking on ghantasala and his skills – Can you show me some audio or video link of any reputed hindusthani musician (not playback singer) speaking about rafi or any other hindi playback singer ? Let us talk facts shankar ji and not imaginations — we speak facts, there is no necessity to tell lies or create some false posts in this public forum – we do not have such business (as some recent posts indicate here) please remember,
My request is do not kindly get excited and please take our post in right spirit and hope intelligent sense draws upon by “so called music lovers of rafi songs” in analysing the above points,
I conclude that I shall reply to you Mr. shankar, only on the matter regarding your availability at hyderabad for the above event in Aug, 2011 and will not have any musical discussion with you, as your post does not mention about music, which I have learnt as a carnatic musician and specially who is not able to say a basic thing about chakravaka and kannada ragas (the response by you to my query on them is somewhat different – you were mentioning ghantasala and a musician rendering them – i have never raised an issue regarding ghantasala rendering them – I had just asked about the ragas as a musician, but failed to understand how you could mean that I was speaking for ghantasala rendering them – which I did not)
Regards,
Bhushan Miryala
Just listen to this yet another Ghazal of Rafi Sahab, what a rendition. Its true he was the greatest singer of India. Just listen to the words’Tauba Tauba”. His voice was so expressive. The way he uttered the words in his songs were amazing. If any body can sing classical well, how can that singer bring the melody and softness of Rafi Sahab God-gifted divine voice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOMBfEueaUw&feature=related
Suman Kulyanji was a better singer than Lata Mangeshkar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a3dDI2Hc1E&feature=fvsr
listen to this to find out, how great was Rafi Sahab. mannaday said that rafi sahab’s throw of words and modulations were not seen in any other singer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hBFK5P3J4Y&feature=related
listen to this great classical song by the legendary singer, mannada favorite most song
Rafi sahab would make any other singer sound so ordinary, This was Rafi, just listen to this song and judge it yourself what i mean to say, rafi has even subdued lata here
TERE BIN SOONE NAYAN HAMARE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6HLpvhXQqM