True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
I forgot to mention one compliment for sonu fans Mr. Neel and his friends 2641,42,44 etc
Their use of language and english exactly reflects and resemble their idol’s singing capabilities, True Rafi fans posts reflect rafi’s capabilities, Ghantasala fans posts reflect ghantasala’s capabilities and sonu fans posts are resembling sonu nigam’s singing capabilities. Keep it up sonu fans.
Dear rafi lovers
Please do not stop sonu fans from their desire to have their idol to be compared to rafi and ghantasala who were benchmarks in field of playback singing to successive singers and legends down the decades. It is a fact that comparison is made with great people and we should not discourage them from doing that. Sonu fans are just doing that – they are doing correct thing, they are comparing sonu with evergreen legends like rafi and ghantasala, What is wrong – one should find fault if sonu fans compare sonu with singers of his era in the 80’s when music died in hindi film industry as someone states here. sonu fans are getting satisfied by themselves by referring to the evergreen music of 50’s and 60’s of great legends and comparing sonu with them. It that is not the intention, they would never have compared sonu with yesteryear legends of music. They are indirectly supporting the benchmark legends, rafi and ghantasala by comparing sonu with them. Hope “elders” respect the views of “immature children gifted with basic sense” as pointed out in post 2647 of Dr. chandrasekhar.
Dear music lovers,
A simple point – rafi is being discussed after 31 years of his leaving the world and ghantasala – after 37 years of his leaving – sonu is not known to many people, even when he is active – is there any sense in comparing sonu nigam with the legends of music – a funny joke – remember – i repeat – “funny” “Joke” – means double fun
Abhishek ji and rafi fan ji
After a long time again. Good posts
the insecured thoughts of sonu fans became clearly visible. I was thinking all these days that they just used to compare sonu nigam with rafi as they knew that rafi was miles ahead/superior to sonu nigam, Now they realised the same is the case with ghantasala, otherwise they would not have brought out a comparison with the great ghantasala , whom these sonu fans never would have heard of in their life time. Anyhow, sonu has nothing to do with ghantasala as no link exists between both directly or indirectly, sonu fans needs to know this simple fact – of course, i understand their problem as Mr. Abhishek states sonu fans are children and yes, children do not know what they are talking and what they do due to their immatured capabilities of mental abilities. We elders need to adjust with children to keep them happy as we do in our routine life and understand them.
But one thing needs to be appreciated, sonu fans have surprisingly been gifted with a basic sense – if comparison has to be made, it can be made only with the legends like rafi and ghantasala – otherwise they would never have mentioned their names here for comparing sonu with them – this point we elders should certainly know from the children sonu fans.
Rafi fan 1 saab –
Good hitting sir, I did not want to respond to children (sonu fans) as they cannot understand what they talk and also are not interested in listening to the advise of elders – how the culture has changed – see, they are pointing fingers at elders when they need to show respect to them. It is just like the change in hindi music from 60’s to 80’s
Hindi music was young in 60’s and died in 80’s – this fact sonu fans also know.
I do not think sonu nigam has any role to play here – his position is clearly explained here – in terms of popularity and otherwise – the legends who have ruled industries in 50’s and 60’s continue to be popular and are highly placed even today. The following link confirms that :
http://www.whopopular.com/India/Musicians
Good time sonu fans
Dear Hans
I do not think kishore fans are commenting on sonu nigam vs rafi. This man Mr. neel appears to be another joker like swami earlier, please be careful.
Sonu fans need to clearly understand that hindi music was never the same after rafi left the world and to some extent kishore kumar next.
Sonu, hardly is a match for any of the singers of the 50’s and 60’s – it is futile effort by sonu fans to bring sonu into comparison with great legends of the 50’s and 60’s – when sonu was not even born on this earth – this fact needs to be noted by sonu fans and shed their ignorance pl.
And regarding some ignorant comments again in post 2644 same holds good – a child should not be compared to his father, this fact should be noted.
I feel sorry for sonu fans because I note that they are comparing sonu nigam to great legends who ruled the industries, when sonu was not even born on this earth – this simple point their minds are not able to understand.
sonu nigam has even produced much better songs than ghanta as md, he is also a much better singer than ghanta,
Ghanta sala best song “sala me to sahab bun gayya, atten shaun”.
Sonu best song, ‘indeed many’
now this is a really smart move of comparing sonu nigam with ghantasala. the kishore fans (disguised as ghantasala fans ) opened a second channel to attack rafi, when kishore could not stand before rafi on account of his stark inability to sing classical based songs, they brought in this ghantasala who is deemed to be classical based singer. he is also md specialising in directly copying bollywood tunes (which is regularly done by most regional mds ).
ab unhin ka joota unhi ke sar ki kahawat charitarth hui hai. ab ye sonu se compare karte rahenge.
many people have stived to achieve the status of sala, but the fact remains the fact that ghanta has been the best sala
dharam paji was once very annoyed with ghantasala as ghanta had stolen his paratha, dharmindra roared in his punjabi dialect, saley me tera khun pi jaonga’.
sonu is the bestt
post 2639-@abhishek
you have indeed been very well exposed as sala mian fan, disguised as rafi’s fan as somebody has rightly mentioned in the near past posts. no body can be jealous of an unknown singer who is only recognised by south people only. I had been going through the posts where they have been quoting only 2-3 songs of him, and most of the time only one that is siva sankari. i do not find any good reason to regard this particular song as ‘the best song’ that has ever been rendered. First of all it seems that ghanta has only sung these 3 songs, and if siva is considered his best song than one can very well imagine the status of the singer. siva is a song which can be rendered much better than ghanta’s, that is so obvious by listening to numerous singers at youtube. people have much better, more melodious and sureeli voice than g.sala.
He was indeed never more than an ordinary classical sort of stuff. But if you listen to Sonu nigam ji, he has got greatest skills and talant which sala could have only dreamed of, he died before sonuji as he could not compete with the greatest os greats sonu nigam.
Sonuji hit songs are numerous, his versatility, his pitch. Ghanata has never ever sung i highest notes but sonuji has sung the song ‘to baat paki’ in scales that were 3-4 notes higher than sala could ever reached. pitty on his fans who have selected for them a singer who is such an average singer. ask any youngster, he or she will know sonu nigam, but if you ask them that who is sala, they will only look at your face as if you have abused them, and they will be feeling to draw their 5 fingers on your face. No singer is never a singer and ghanta falls in this category.
2638 – Neel
Wikipedia is fully supported by evidences from articles from leading dailies – if the fans write all nonsense wikipedia does not accept that – I am sorry that you do not know this basic thing. Similar stuff is also written for rafi, kishore kumar etc. in wikipedias, supported by evidences. No sonu nigam pl. – he has to take numerous births to achieve the status of ghantasala. Why are you feeling jealous for famed legends ?
Sonu has not turned any industry nor has remarkable achievements – so he cannot be put up for discussion at all.
ghantasala is a flop singer, thats why his fans need to quote wikipedia to get him know. By the way the wikipedia stuff has been written by such fans where they have indeed showered their worthless and weightless praises on their not well-known singer at all, as after hearing lot of music of all varieties people still have no idea who the person by the name of ghanta is. Sou Nigam is the best and his highest note song is,’To Baat Pakki”, the link of this legendry singer is,’ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZCEbolGa2c‘
Dear Mr. Andrea Correa -2636
My friend, you are grossly mistaken. First of all you should have first hand information on a legend before making comments. You may please refer to following link to know about ghantasala first and then request you to quote your views.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghantasala_(singer)
Next, sonu nigam fans have joined very recently, it has been noticed – good to note that
Can any fan of sonu nigam ji provide the song of sonu ji, which they claim to be the greatest in notes, – they have made a specific mention of sonu ji for comparison with ghantasala, – I request sonu fans also to have information about ghantasala from the above link – What is sonu nigam and what is ghantasala will be known to them.
Sonu nigam, in my view, though an established singer, does not match upto mohd rafi in the hindi field and rafi stands as one of the best singers the hindi film industry has ever produced. I never mean any offence to sonu ji’s fans or sonu ji himself, but in my view, sonu ji is never a comparison to the legends – ghantasala and mohd rafi.
they (his masters voice) the drumbeaters with sore ear’s are bringing the works and lives of ghantasala and kishore kumar to base levels who ‘sadly’ cant’ stop these mischief makers who parade as their great fans.
if ghantasala and kishore kumar would have been around, they would have written a few lines to ‘stop’ the nonsense being written about the saint singer rafi – who is miles and miles ahead of these singers.
incidentally and otherwise history repeats itself. the famous journo raju bharatan
in the seventies, mischieviously to push ‘up’ the sales of the Illustrated weeekly of india had published a damaging story comparing kk and mr and had said that rafi’s singing days are over.
the debate continued for threee long months and ultimately kishore kumar wrote to the weeekly editor that he, KK himself is a ‘big’ fan of rafi saaaaheb and the debate stopped.
this debate by ghantasala and kk fans is ‘not’ however the last word – to raise the muck about their ghantasala or kishore kumar.
some of them forget the fact that rafi saaheb playbacked some 14 songs for kishore kumar in various movies for the screens.
let these corrupted souls with partly deaf ears – open their own sites for kk and g.sala and write their worthless stuff over there….. and seee how many come to read those torrid stuff on their average singers.
Post 2631… Nirupa ji…
contd….rightly said.
democracy has beeen misused in our country since we have many many ‘illiterates’ who does’nt even know what democracy is all about.
here too the illiterates like abishek and fellow travellers want to blow the trumpet of their singers and ‘foolish-ly’ wishes to say that their favourite singer is better than mohd rafi.
yaaaron, its the works that speaks about a person not the trumpeting. trumpeteers can get some ‘doles’ in a democracy and they are wished away….
the works and life of mohd rafi saaaheb will keeeep him ‘miles’ and ‘miles’ ahead of their works.
u rafi baiters are morons and uselesss people like the illiterates in a democracy. ur drum beating for your ‘besura’ singers must be synchronised with the songs of himesh reshamiya….
because your category of people ‘truly’ belong there.
Another Best from Rafi Sahab, just listen to the alteration in Rafi Sahab’s voice throughout this song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlSuGrYwRgE&feature=related
The depth of rafi’s voice is hard to fathom. He immerses in the? spirit of each song? as if it was the only song he had to sing and he sang countless songs in that manner. unbelievable consistancy
All fans of legendry Rafi Sahab, and others,
If you want to enjoy the charm of rafi sahab’s honey-dipped voice, just hear this great composition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo_3UMrhOow&feature=related
wah, rafi voice was nothing but pure melody and surrs at their zenith
Rafi Sahab insult by Ghanta fans are simply intolerable, if they wan’t to praise him, they should resort to some other forum, or make one. This is Rafi sahab forum exclusively and people like abhishek must leave this site, if for any reason, he better knows, does not have regards for the greatest playback singer of all-times, muhammad rafi sahab.
the respect has been earned by rafi sahab with his utmost dedication towards music and not merely by his fans trying to falselly “impose” other singers gretness on rafi sahab. People who understands music know what rafi sahab stature is in the music industry. He is the giant of singing skills, while others mentioned here and there are just dwarfs, in front of legendry rafiji.
sONU NIGAM IS A MUCH BETTER SINGER THAN SP BALA, YESUDAS, KISHORE KUMAR AND A SOUTH SINGER NAMED GHANTASALA.
tHEY HAVE NEVER SUNG IN A RANGE WHERE SONU HAS SUNG. SONU IS THE ULTIMATE SINGER MAN HAS EVER KNOWN.
Sonu Nigam is the best singer of all times. Better than kishore, mukesh, talat mehmood, lata, asha and ghantasala. If I have missed some names, please put all those here as well.’
I’ll give you the reasons, why.
1. THE MOST BEAUTIFUL VOICE.
2. the most versatile.
3. The most Charismatic.
4. Has sung all sorts of songs.
5. Master in classical singing.
6. The most charismatic.
7. Most charming.
8. has broken all barriers of highest notes in his song, ‘To baat Pakki’.
9. LATA HAS ADMITTED THAT HE IS THE BEST SINGER OF ALL-TIMES
TO Mr. Abhishek (post 2625)
I may have misunderstood you completely and may have misidentified some other posts with your’s. If i have hurt you, i apologize. Please forgive me!
To Mr. Moderator:
Thank you for taking the time to clean-up the posts and bring back the dignity to the site that it desrves.
To All Rafi Fans:
A stand well taken. We can not tolerate indecency to any singer.
friends, no doubt the offensive comments have now been removed, yet let it not be taken lightly. these sickly persons will try to appear every now and then in different avatars. alas, they do not know that their email ids can be tracked and they can be booked by the law enforcement agencies for creating public nuisance. let it be a warning to all such elements who use unparliamentary language on any public platform. as music lovers we may have small differences on a singer but it should not be used as a leverage to stoop so low as to use unparliamentary language on either the legendary singers or any of the other music lovers who post comments here.
I would like to convey my sincere thanks to the moderator of this site for removing some highly objectionable posts in this thread on my and some other music lovers’ request. Though it has resulted in some mismatch w.r.t the post nos. that I have referred in my post 2616, as with the removal of those abusive posts the post nos. have been adjusted/ changed, so the referred posts are now pertaining to some other posts that were not meant for removal, but that is a minor issue, I guess.
J.K. Bhagchandani
Mr. Irfan Beig
Some of my comments might have been misunderstood like rafians like you, and I can understand that, and Shri Rafi fan ji puts up in his latest post, I repeat the views stated therein. One needs to resort in a language which has been used by some people and I have just done not within the permitted levels of decency, hope you understand that, and I respect your advise.
Rafi fan 1 saab,
Great post Mr. Roy sir, as usual like your previous posts.
I note the posts of Mr. Swami have been removed by the Moderator, my thanks to the esteemed moderator for such move and thanks to all my fellow rafians and music lovers for ensuring to restore dignity of the site.
To Mirza Irfan Baig ji -2626
Respectable comments you have put up and largely show a lot of truth in them. As I have been a visitor to this site regularly for nearly past 5 years or so, I can state that this kind of environment (such nonsense posts of Mr swami etc.) is viewed for the first time in this site – This should be completely condemned – I mean to say honestly, very honestly that simple condemnation does not serve the purpose, rather it would be really great, if one is successful in ensuring that such nonsense posts by mr. Swami etc. are not posted hereafter, whether due to request to esteemed moderator or otherwise. I do not feel any offence, even as a rafi fan, one has to slap such comments (of mr. swami) to ensure dignity in the site.
You would kindly note that, for the past many years discussion on ghantasala and rafi was largely dignified, i repeat largely dignified and many elders, musicians, respectable people have visited this site and have written many beautiful posts – in fact this site itself is an encyclopaedia to know about music, I think no body can find better information on music other than here. So I think, selecting ghantasala fans exclusively for some nonsense comments by some nuts (like Mr. swami and true there may be some from other category too like him) is not correct & needs a a relook. It will also be noted that despite such filthy comments by mr. swami, no ghantasala fan has used any wrong language towards any singer, including rafi (does that not confirm the level of respect they maintain for rafi and the decency they have ?) I expect you might be knowing that many ghantasala fans in this site are exclusive rafi fans too, with some of them registered as members with rafi foundation in their respective states as well.
As you said, if any ghantasala fan would have reverted with the same language, how would the situation would have been? And I do not think they are incapable of doing that, but they never resorted to such thing, because they know how to maintain respect for rafi, as can be seen from numerous posts, But no ghantasala fans have behaved in a negative way with wrong language despite the highest deplorable comments by esteemed fake rafi fan like swami here. This needs to be noted and no negative reaction has been the case, this fact needs to be honestly respected.
And regarding your post to Abhishek ji, I do have reservations, sorry if it hurts you. Mr. Abhishek has responded only in response to the nonsense posts, without compromising the dignity beyond a certain level, you can note he has even posted in kishore forum and his posts confirm his level of decency (please do not take this as my support from abhishek , but I have put up what i have seen in this site for long)
Maha devika ji
I have enormous respect for your post, which you have put up after a long time, Young girl as you are, please do not feel hurt by some wrong comments, You need to live in a world like this – no other option. As you said it is one’s duty to spread love and warmth, speciallly when it comes to musical discussion. Keep it up.
A few appeals:
To Mr. Shankar Narain Swami/Narain Shankar (Posts 2617 & 2618 etc.)
Please stop being insulting to any singer. Each one of us has a favorite singer and if anyone insults him/her we get offended. Put yourself in the shoes of Ghantasala fans. The things you are saying is very hurtful. How would you feel if someone used this kind of language for our favorite singer Rafi Sahib? We will definitely be hurt and may retaliate irrationally. The outcome will not be pretty. So think about it. Do we really want someone to use this kind of language for Rafi Sahib? And if they do, wouldn’t it hurt all of us? In other words, by your posts you are inviting others to hurt our feelings. As a fellow Rafi fan I appeal to you to stop posting such comments.
To Ghantasala Fans (numerous posts)
Please stop inciting people like Narain Shankar/Shankar Narain Swami into a frenzied actions. This is a forum for Rafi fans. Your constant effort to show the superiority of Mr. Ghantasala over Rafi Sahib is deplorable. Don’t you guys have a site where you can go and shower all the praise on your favorite singer? Wikipedia – the free encyclopedia is one place that you can go and write all the high praises that you want for Mr. Ghantasala. But don’t come to this site quoting your own writing from Wikipedia to show how great your favorite singer is.
In my childhood roaming through the shortwave stations once in a while I will get Radio Peking. The instrumental music played from there sounded so good that I would pause at those stations. However, as soon as the singers (mostly women) started their part it sounded so offensive that I could not stand anymore and have to change the station. Were those singers bad? If you ask a Chinese person he will say that they were great. Indeed they may have been great. It was I who did not have a taste in the Chinese music. Similarly, I do not understand Telgu and I do not have a taste in Kernatic music. To me, like most fans of Bollywood music, the lyrics are more important than the music itself. This is a reason why I do not enjoy songs other than in Urdu, Hindi, English, Punjabi and Bengali – in that order. Mr Ghantasala must have been a great singer as his fans shower him with so much love and reverence. This does not mean that I have to like/love him too. I have seen several posts where Mr. Ghantasala’s fans have systematically degraded Rafi Sahib. This is hurtful too. To you, Rafi Sahib may be an ordinary singer – and that is fine with us. But do not post comments on this forum to show superiority of your favorite singer by degrading the singer we love and adore.
To Abhishek
Get a life. You masquerade on this site as a Rafi fan but your reason for living seems to be only to degrade Rafi Sahib on every opportunity you get. Your numerous posts on this site, thinly disguised as a Rafi fan, can fool some of the people some of the time but it cannot fool all the people all the time. To you sometimes Mr. Ghantasala is better than Rafi Sahib sometimes Kishore Da is better than him. Why must you come to this site to degrade the singer for whom this site is dedicated to? I have seen sites where Kishore Da is referred to as Pundit (Haldar Babu must chuckle on this one) with a caption under the picture of Kishore Da and Lataji reading, “Pundit ji giving ‘taleem’ to Lata Mangeshkar”. As a Lata fan I am offended. But the site is owned by a Kishore fan and he has all the rights to honor his favorite singer. May be you will be very happy to visit sites like that.
I would also request the moderator to kindly expunge the filthy language that has been used in this forum since that falls much below the minimum standards of decency.
One amazing thing has happened, and people might be unaware of that. The news is Sonu Nigam has reached the highest scale barrier in his song, where he has sung even much higher than respected ghantasala. The song is “toh baat pakki”.
I think this song of sonu nigam must be placed in guiness book of world recorld. Even he has surpassed lataji.
Sonu Nigam is indeed the best of singer that can sing in the highest notes/scales/pitch humanly possible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7LNTTUKYpM
My heart really weeps when people try to let down the legendry singer Muhammad Rafi Sahab, but also when as a reaction somebody abuses such sweet people who had spread so much love in this cruel world, and merely due to their presence that had been, that there is some peace here. We must compliment our favorite singers, but at the same time should not hurt other people’s feelings. Both Rafiji ang Ghantasala Guruji were matchless in their own ways. But i also strongly believe that these 2 giants were matcless and nobody else could compete with these singing sensations. I appeal all music lovers to spread language of love and never ever abuse one another. Our singing heroes had always been so gentlemen, sweet and loving and we must follow their path if we truly love them. Please, i beg stop this endless war, there are many who are spreading hatredship. We must strive to spraed love, peace and harmont to make the world a better place.
Listen to Rafiji at his brilliant best
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz14kc_2sMg
J K Bhagchandani ji,
I am with you fully. I too request the moderator to please remove the posts which uses derogatory language. A similar post in the sister kishore forum has been deleted by moderator upon request from the music lovers there. I am unable to understand why such posts are being allowed to be posted here without any reason.
It is my humble request to the moderator of this site that posts 2606, 2615, 2617 & 2618 be removed from the site. Such language can not be tolerated. Let the post no. appear with a message that the post has been removed. Hope my request is complied with.
J.K. Bhagchandani
Shame on you Shankar Narain Swami, for using such filthy language on a public forum.
Mr. Swami
Your barking does not serve any purpose. Nothing can change the facts about superiority of ghantasala and kishore in comparison to rafi. Just know this fact and try to close your chapter as you utterly failed to convince others about your barkings.
Abhishek ji, Dr. Chandrasekhar ji, J K Bhagchandani ji and others,
I really understand your frustrations, you are all nice music lovers and gentlemen – all of respectable ages and with positions in society.
I really feel sorry to note that this column, which once has been a place for “beautiful discussion” – that too on Lionic legends like rafi and ghantasala has become a mud slinging site now a days, thanks to entry of …….. like Mr. Swami Ji,
I remember one proverb –
“Dogs bark when elephants walk” – That’s all – the barking stops with barking only and cannot create any impact beyond “barking”
Perhaps this is the correct thing which can be mentioned here – When discussion on music and between two great legends is made, we are finding such barking from people like esteemed “Mr. Swami ji” here – Now based on “barking” – the blank in my above post can be easily filled.
Hope, esteemed music lovers like you, do not enter into unnecessary comments with such “barking …… as Mr. Swami ji here ” – again blank which can be filled.
Abhishek ji,
Please do not worry, you have talked in a correct way with Mr. Swami ji – as one needs to respond to other in his own language so that the waves are quite clear. rather I am interested in treating him if he comes to my place, so that he will be a better person hereafter. It will be nice if Mr. swami understands our good intentions and accepts our request. If he is unable to personally make a visit, even we can advise him on postal basis for treatment, if it is convenient for him. After all, we are well wishers, specially wishing that mentally confused patients like Mr. swami becomes well and behaves in the right way.
J K Bhagchandani ji,
Pl. do not misunderstand my previous post (hope you got it, what I meant) – we need to respond to some persons in their own language.
Dear J K Bhagchandani ji
My compliments for your post sir. I hope the moderator looks into the aspect and filters such posts – Mr. shankar Narain swami – He has names of revered lord – but surprisingly his brain is working in a reverse way. I think he has got some problem mentally, as he is not able to digest or rather understand facts and is gulfing out all his mental weaknesses and thoughts in this forum of rafi ji.
Shankar narain swami
Pl. don’t think that others cannot talk. Rather, respected music lovers like Bhagchandani ji have responded very softly in view of their gentle nature. If you are mistaken that whatever you say will be tolerated, you are grossly mistaken. I and others really sympathise with you for your mental condition – perhaps you would like to commit suicide if I now say that kishore kumar is better than rafi and he had overtaken rafi on ocassions – ha ha ha . Already you are 90% down by knowing that ghantasala has been stated as superior to rafi and now if you know about kishore kumar, remaining 10% battery power in you also will vanish – that should solve the problem for you.
cheers.
Its freedom of expression in great india, and i have got all the right to condemn a singer who is tried by his few fans to be made some sort of great singer, which i stronly believe, he is not.
A regional singer will remain a regional singer.
Fan following only in south.
Ghantasala praising himself in one of his own compositions.
hIS MOST MELODIOUS SONG GOES LIKE THIS,
Sala me to sahab bun gaya, ‘Atten Shun”
Why facts can not be engulfed by inferiority complexed fans of ghantasala?
Posts 2606 and 2607:
M/s Narain Shankar and Shankar Narain Swami ji,
Whoever are you, you can not be true music lovers. You seem to be mischief makers. This kind of comments are not welcome. Please learn to respect the legends. You may have your choices, but maintain a dignity in this forum.
I request the moderator of this site to switch back to earlier system of vetting/ moderating the comments before allowing them to appear. Such comments are condemnable.
-J.K. Bhagchandani
Ghantasala was just an OK singer, nothing more, noting less.
“Muhammad Rafi”-Global Singer.
Ghantasala-Regional Singer.
People have to accept this simple fact, if not, what can I say!
Some examples of voice/style adaptation for actors:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcKuZotSWes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS1AxURBqAE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlNr-duoX6g
About golden voice mukeshji——————————-
Raj Kapoor once tried to pressurize me into taking Mukesh instead of Rafi for songs of Do Ustaad. He tried to do it cleverly. He came to my office, listened to my tunes- dancing all the time while listening and then quietly he popped up the question, “Just tell how these tunes would sound in Mukesh’s voice?” Mincing no words, I said, “They would sound terrible.” Further, I just told Sheikh Mukhtar – who was the producer and Raj’s co-star in the film, “If Mukesh is going to sing these songs, just take your signing amount back.” Raj relented but then we never worked together again!
And plz rd what he said about MK (OP Nayyar was great but at the same time very blunt, i am sorry to say)
————————————————————————————–
What about Mahendra Kapoor?
“I used him as replacement for Rafi. I used to call him Çharan Das for he used to touch feet of practically any Tom, Dick and Harry. I found this extra- humility phony. He might have sung quite a few good songs for me but just listen to Do Ustaad title track to know how off-key he could be! Purposely I kept that Besuraa singing so that one day, I could show him how bad he could be!”
—————————————————————————————
Strange, that he never used Lataji for any of his compositions, he said the her voice was too thin and thready, not suitable for my kind of music
—————————————————————————————–
Now the eternal question. Why didn’t you ever use Lata’s voice in your music? Wasn’t she supposed to have come for the Aasman song that was finally sung by Raj Kumari? In Harish Bhimani’s book on Lata, she claims to have been held up by rain and being not able to come for the recording.
“It’s all humbug! I never ever summoned her for any of my songs. I needed a powerful, full throated, sensuous voice and she had this thin, thread-like voice, which was not at all suitable for my music. Another thing is about my inspiration coming from beauty. Lata with her plain, ordinary looks never could inspire me as a composer!
————————————————————————————
OPJi had issues with almost everybody,
but at the same time
OPN one of the greatest music director ever we got,opn was able to replace lata ji but not mohd rafi, in 1960’s they tried to replace mohd rafi with m kapoor and in 1970’s with Anwar but both singers are mohd rafi fan…………..