True Voice – Mohd Rafi
The following article was brought to my notice when Sharad posted it on MAS. The article has been trimmed down a bit keeping afloat Rafi details. However, anyone interested can go visit the source at http://tfmpage.com/forum/4980.6302.04.57.19.html
I am Swaminatha Iyer and I am 78 years old. I hail from Tiruchi and I am a part of music associations in Tiruchi, M’as as well as in West Bengal and Maharashtra.
I think it is wrong to condemn music or artists on either side of Vindhyas. Our Indian music is one of the few which has not been cleaned off by the western music though there has always been a influence. It speaks a lot of the richness of our music. Sometime back director of MTV had said that MTV westernized the music wherever it went but in India , MTV had to be Indianized for it to be accepted. A lot of this credit goes to the Indian film music.
I have been fortunate to have close personal association with Rafi, Sirkali, TMS, Dr. BMK, Kishore, SPB & KJY, PS, Mannadey and the one and only Lata Mangeshkar.
Comparisons are bound to come, but almost every artist or I have met considers Lata to be beyond comparison. Her talents are beyond anyone’s reach. Even Sirkazi used to talk of her singing like a die-hard fan as do countless others.
Now coming to the Rafi-SPB discussion. It might be difficult to convince an South Indian to believe Rafi is the better and at the same time Rafi crowd will never believe any other male singer comes anywhere nearer. There is one more mobile crowd, which is well conversant with Hindi and some south Indian language. Majority of them tilt to either Rafi or Kishore.
During one of my stays in M’as I had stayed with SPB. While talking of true voices he said, I don’t feel like half a singer when listening to Rafi. True voice is not a tech term but many in circle use it. Perfect example would be lata, but to understand consider our own PS who within her range is superb. People who do not have such true voices can never do justice to original. They generally underplay many parts of the song or fake it with bass/superficial singing. True voices make people like Sirkazi, Nusrat Fateh Ali khan, Lata… Inimitable. However since Sirkazi and Nusrat did not have the filmy voices their “real” following is limited to their local arena.
In addition to the true voice if the singer has a very good voice then in “most” cases he/she can better songs of others. It is this combination which makes Rafi stand out among the other male singers. There are many here who seem to have mistaken notions on a good bass and also on high pitch.
Bryan Adams does not require a monster bass in “Summer of 69” to sound real manly. It is the punch which gives that feel and that is decided only by the comfort level in most ranges (that is by what your throat can support). This you CAN never disguise with bass. Since people have talked about lack of manly voice viz. a viz. Rafi it was necessary to bring this point out. I have had the fortune of listening to most singers in studio and some times without a mike, practicing with MD’s.When Lata or Rafi do, the level is so high that people hesitate to even hum. It felt silly to sing in their presence (and it feels silly when someone says his voice isn’t manly).
In RD’s tribute when SPB sang “Aaja Aaja mein hoon” or “Chaand mera dil” it sounded only sweet and lacked punch if you compare with Rafi’s original.
Yesu once told me God has been partial to Rafi. He said “god gift term anavasyamaa romba common aa ippo use aardu”.. but idu Rafi kee thaan 100% porundu”. This person could sing “as intricately as a lady without sounding thin”, “cover any mood”, “versatility odey perfect example Rafi”. Yesu said most important is the comfort level over ranges which makes you feel God has been partial to Rafi. (But Of course in Rafi’s early career (1950’s) the voice was relatively feeble).
To people exposed to Rafi’s talent, these or any amount of praise can only seem less. I just wish he was alive and you people could get a live chance to hear him. Probably you can get hold of the DD album for the Geet Gaata Chal series where the first four episodes were dedicated to Rafi. Rafi is on camera singing “O Duniya Ke Rakwaaley” and many other songs. If you see and hear the last part you will realize why SPB said “impossible”. I think particularly those people who have talked about scales w.r.t Rafi should see this album. Its a known fact in industry that Rafi ruled high pitch and there is no male singer better in switching notes so easily. There are artists who can go beyond but then they sound strained or they don’t have pleasant voices when they venture into those territories.
Many singers of today are his compulsive followers. But they end up inheriting only part of his quality. Md. Aziz ended up with a sad voice. Mahendra Kapoor with a thick nasal voice. Anwar with a nasal voice. Sonu Nigam with a feminine voice. Rafi neither had a soft voice nor a heavy (bass) voice he had a good voice. Importantly did not strain at high notes, and voice if at all only became better at higher notes. If you see him singing it will remind you of Janaki. However diff the song is or the note is he will be smiling and singing. It is unthinkable that he cannot sing something.
There seems to be lot of talk about “Shankara Bharanamo” song. SPB has sung many a great numbers and things being said about this song in this forum are rather amusing, particularly b’cos 3 out of 4 people who can be called as singers will be able sing it and at least one out of 10 will sing it with the same effect. There are lot of other songs of SPB where this great singer has played with songs in total control. You will find most south Indian singers who have had a good exposure say that it is beneficial to learn Hindustani as it gives better breath control and improves expression.
Rafi was not only able to glide over a song, the important thing was that he could express each word/sound when singing. It is one thing to hold your breath, start and reach a crescendo (high note), as like in “Shankara”, “Anbey (Yennai kaan villaye)” it is different ballgame if you have to do it from low notes or suddenly switch notes. With practice the former can be done, latter requires a special gift. Rafi had a natural ability to do the latter. In “Tum joh mil gaye ho” there is such a transition in the “karwaan mil gaya” part. I have never seen anyone do justice to most of his songs in my life time. In “parda hai parda” quawaali the similar part is “kar doon to, Akbar mera naam”. In fact most of his songs will have these specialty as it was his natural ability to sing freely in a wide range at the same time giving that extra expression.
Whereas SPB takes us to heavens with “Idu oru pon maali”,”Ilaya nila” “bisiladarenu”(kannada), when he sings Rafi’s song it lacks the punch or expression, though it has the bass. But at least most agree that SPB does some justice to original, whereas most others murder the original.
One trivial point I would like to add is that singing in Hindi is harder. There are more “JHA”,”CHA”,”HA”,”THA”, “KHA”,”JA”,”FA”. These take away the breath faster. The more expressive you are the more air you are using up. Just singing from Nabhi will not help, your throat also needs to do a lot, for singing in Hindi, Bengali etc. SPB makes you fall in love with his south Indian songs but same cannot be said about his Hindi songs. If you just glide through words having these sounds, you will never be expressive. Doing this as well as reaching high notes is not easy. Rafi had this gift and that’s why it is difficult to imagine anyone else in his shoes. Song “Chalkaaye jaam” has so much expression that it is unthinkable how anyone can sing it. When Rafi switches to a high note with “Mitwaa” in the song “Chaahunga mein tughey” you cannot replicate it with bass. Most others will sound as if they are shouting in such cases. That man’s throat had the ability to freely sing at such levels.
Versatility is not just the ability to sing in various styles, more important is how good you are singing in those styles. You have lot of Ghazal singers today but when Rafi sings a Ghazal you will sit up and take notice. You don’t have to be part of the Ghazal listeners crowd. This is one important aspect. Whatever style you sing you should be able to pull the common man to listen and not just a particular crowd. Pick “parda hai parda” or any qawalli and it will stand tall among other qawalli’s.
Variety is amazing :
songs of Guru Dutt’s Khagaz key phool or songs like abhi naa jao chod key, Aaja teri yaad aayi, Aaj kal mein dhal gaya, Aaj kal terey merey pyaar, Aasmaan sey aaya farishta, Dil ney pyaar kiya hai, Deewana mujh saa nahi, Din dhal jaaye, Duniya paagal hai, Jaane walon jara, Dil joh na kaha saka, Dil key jharokon mein, Dil kaa bhavar, Chalkey teri aakkhon sey, Kar chaley hum fida, khilona jaan kar tum, Woh jab yaad aay, Woh hain jara khafa, Vaadian mera daaman, Pathar key sanam, Chaand mera dil, Main zindagi kaa saath, Mainey poocha chaand sey, sun sun jaalima, Koi jab raah na paay, hum to chaley pardes, badan pey sitaarey, laal chadi maidaan, Tum jo mil gaye, O meri shaahey, Sau baar janam lengey, Tum mujhey yoon bhula, Tumney mujhey dekha, Terey merey sapney, Tumny pukaara hum chaley aay
Name a situation/mood and Rafi’s song will be there on the top.
Swami
http://my.opera.com/rafisaab/blog/2007/11/03/interview-of-op-nayyar-by-d-mandar-for-cinema-sangeet
The link will take you to Mr.OP Nayyar complete interview.
You,ll enjoy it and reveals lot about him
Dr Chandershekarji, Musharafji, Light Music Loverji, Abhishekji!
I am so happy to see your comments which are very impartial, unbiased, logical, knowledgable, and i must say simply great comments. These are the comments from learned people like you all are, that this forum is attracting so many people and i do not find so many comments in any other forum.
I also believe that Ghantasala guruji and rafi sahab were both unique in their respective fields. They both have earned great respect for themselves and hindustani music, which make them legends. Who else is so much famous than both of these greats.
I am a bit busy, otherwise i wanted to discuss with examples in some detail one thing that people who have sung the original song will always stand out. I mean the initial song, whoever has sung it, for instance, if KL Sehgal has sung a song, and after so many years, with the help of latest music technology, any body makes the same song with new instruments, clearer vocal quality, put some computer gimmics, so that the vocalist sound much sweeter (Like these days so many besurre singer use these things to sound in surr), will that make KL Sehgal a lesser singer or the new singer a better one. I don’ know whether i am able to convey, what i really mean here.
For instance if a song is being sung in a particular raga, and later on replaced with a different one, which sounds better, would this take the credit from the original music composer, and singer, i think..no, never.
@Anil Cherianji!
I have again heard the song you have mentioned, although i , in my previous post has given the link in the songs being sung by rafiji in classical/semiclassical mood, there is a comment from somebody by the name, anestheziologist? who quotes,
——————————————————————————————-
OP Nayyar said in an interview:
Q. You Used Manna Dey with Rafi for Tu Hai Mera Prem Devta.
“Well, Rafi was far too superior to Manna Dey there!? Manna Dey would take around four- five takes to get it right.”
—————————————————————————————
that was the legendry singer muhammad rafi, who overshadowed a classically famous singer Mannaday only through his charming voice.
Good to see some posts (2595, 2597) speaking sense. There is no point in trying to search for resemblance where there is little.
Good observations, Musharaffji. In fact, I have been trying here (rather unsuccessfully) to highlight these points. Other than the fact that the two singers dominated their respective industries and were very tuneful, there aren’t many common features when we speak about Rafi sahab and Ghantasalaji. As someone was mentioning here, we can find more common attributes between Ghantasalaji and Manna Da or between Rafi sahab and SPB sir.
Ghantasalaji is your ideal Carnatic classical singer who knew how to sing a film song well. His basic style, his voice, his approach to singing, it’s all typically Carnatic classical vocalist’s. Rafi sahab, on the other hand, is your ideal play back singer who knew how to handle a filmy semi-classical song well. Even when he attempts a relatively complex raaga- based composition, it doesn’t sound ‘ustadish’ and that’s the major reason why his semi-classical songs became the musical landmarks they did. As Maha Devikaji was pointing out, Rafi Sahab could do certain things with a semi-classical song, his better-trained compatriots couldn’t.
Here’s one of my favorite all male duets
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0y61M6nOe0
One doesn’t have to be a musical maestro to identify who is more ‘grammatically’ better in the song. But can we imagine someone else creating the ‘magic’ that Rafi sahab has done with his part?
Musharaff ji,
Thanks a lot for your post. I firmly respect your views and points mentioned there in. No issues, as I read your nice posts earlier and they contain a lot of truth and genuineness in them. Actually, our core of “arguments” are aimed at ignorant people who write all nonsense – the more they write or become more aggressive, the more our arguments also assume strength for such people – i repeat – only for such ignorant people and has nothing to do with the accomplished legends or for other true music lovers.
True music lovers like you and many others, including me, are on the same level and we never have any issues. Summing up the essence of your beautiful post read with the post rafi fan1 here in post 2588, I reproduce the beautiful quotation from the post, hereunder. Hope you enjoy it.
“Rafi sahab represents the state of a cloudless sky on a full moon night when there is a soft breeze & Ghantasaala garu represents the state of a cloudless sky on a new moon night with billions & billions of twinkling stars smiling at us.
both these states are mindblowing.”
Regards Musharaff ji.
Dear Abhishekji,
I have gone through your posts and certainlyread with interest your views centering around Rafi/Ghantasala dichotomy. I personally took part in the same debate months back. However,I feel that an objective decision regarding a qualitative judgement will be difficult to arrive at because firstly, they were representing two different cultures and having their respective workplaces in geographically separate areas. And secondly they belonged to different classes of singing background and possessed remarkably different style of singing.
Rafi was out and out a playback singer. He dominated the the highest and the most competitive playback forum of India, i.e, Bollywood for long twenty years during the fifties and the sixties. He was not a classical singer. But he had the requisite amount of classical training that enabled him to sing all types of film songs without branding him in any particular singing genre, thereby completely fulfilling the demands of the Music Directors of Bollywood. When it came to performance of pure classical numbers the MDs utilized the voice of classical singers such as Aamir Khan (Baiju bawra), Ustaad Bade Ghulam Ali(Mughal-e-Azam). Rafi’s versatility in playback singing was simply outstanding. His magical voice mesmerized millions of listeners. Starting from the common man of the street ending to the affluent or from the completely illiterate to the educated, his songs touched the hearts of the people of almost every sphere of the society. His innumerable number of songs became super-hits and became legends that took his career to heights that is unparalleled and unprecedented in the history of Indian playback music. His fame and popularity in playback singing crossed the national borders and went into the international arena that no playback singer till now has been able to attain notwithstanding the fact that he had the advantage of singing in the national language.
Ghantasala, on the other hand was a great musical personality. He had multiple musical talents and singing ability. Apart from being a music director who dominated the Telegu film industry as a playback singer for long thirty years till his death that no playback singer ever did, he was also an accomplished classical singer. His singing versatility extended to the rendition of “Bhagwat Shloka” and “Padyams” as well. Ghantasala had the image of an “Ustaad” a “pandit”, an institution himself who paved the platform for students aspiring to learn classical music. Also, no playback singer could match his classical ability that influenced his renditions in the film songs as well.
So if we compare these two musical luminaries we find them having different characteristics and a direct comparison is also all the more difficult since they never sang on the same platform.
However, from the relative performance and achievement they both had, we can generally say that from the point of view of the number of singing areas each covered Ghantasala(Classical,Playback, Padyam,Bhagwat Geeta shloka, etc) was more versatile than Rafi but from the point of view of pure playback singing Rafi had the edge.
Regards.
Ahmed kutty ji,
I do not know why you are thinking in wrong terms that rafi sahab is being criticized. No body criticised rafi, – discussions on songs does not amount to criticism if viewed from a positive angle. I hope such mis-conception is cleared.
people have stood against prophets even, if ever god comes on earth, there will lot many people who will surely deny him as well, this is only about a hindi singer, rafi. why won’t he be opposed. after so many’biggest lies’ by ghantasala fans, no body is able to provide an evidence, a link to this hypothetical narration, that rafi ahd ever praised ghantasala, and ever said that he could not sing like ghantasala. they will never provide the proof, because they are just liers. rafi was never impressed by ghantasala singing, because there has never been anything special about his singing, neither was he versatile, nor was he such a great classical singer. the problem is that the people of this land even in this century of science and technology, they keep in worshiping idols. they have made a god out of an ordinary person by the name of ghantasala.
whatever lies they utter, and they will surely not, it is quite evident that rafi will ever be considered the best singer of hindi music and the other singers just follows him and ghantasala like singers even are not in the picture anywhere. ghantasala ki kia aukaat he. let them keep trying these futile attempts to glorify their sala sahab and we will keep enjoing the most melodious, most versatile, most high-pitched singer rafi. Not ghantasala but muhammad rafi is unanimously declared to be the singer of the millinium. They just compare their most pathetic singer ever known with the hindustani legend just to give him some cheap popularity. Todays generation knows spbala and yesudas but they if asked always say, by the way, who is this person ghantasala?
we tell them, he is probably some regional singer of southern india.
but on the contrary, everybody knows the famous global singer rafi. Just by shouting loud does not make anybody singer, one should sing in high notes maintaining the melody and sweetness as so obvious in rafi songs.
poor ghantasala fans have nothing to offer. rafi is the greatest hindustani singer ever.
dear abhishekji,
i was a die hard fan of yesudasji when from my childhood.up to
my 13 years i did not have a chance to hear rafi saab’s songs.
once i could hear his song from a theatre nearby my place.the
song was “pyaar kiya jaathaa hei” with shatrugnan sinha and lataji.
the sound of rafi saab attracted me too much.from there i am a
ardent fan of rafi saab.even some time i am forgetting my daughter
whom i like too much for the cause of rafi saab.that is the magic of
rafi saab.
in 1980 april i could get the address of rafi saab through one of
my cousins who was working in mumbai.i wrote a letter to
rafi saab asking for his letter and photograph.i did not have any
hope to get a letter since i was from a very remote village
even there was no road facility or electricity in our village.how
can i hope that a singer like rafi saab will send a reply to me?
but within one week i got the letter and photograph and still
i am keeping it as a precious gift from him and to show my
gratitude i put his name for my son “mohammed rafi”.
during these years i have come through so many rafians.
compared to some rafians i think i am nothing since they
have no other subject other than rafi saab.as written by one
rafian in this divine site,after the basic needs of human being
rafi saab’s songs is a must. i think i am one of the luckiest
to get his autigraphed photograph from him and becoming
a “mohammed rafi fan” without which the day to day tensions
will not minimise.
few more interesting thing about rafi saab in kerala.there is
a calender called “mathrubhoomi” in kerala.in that 31st july
we can see “the death anniversary of mohammed rafi”.it did
not mention even hindi singer mohamed rafi.
we had great actors like sathyan,prem nazir and jayan who
are no more.prem nazir acted in more than 600 films as
hero and his name appeared in the ‘guinnes books of world
records’.even his death anniverasary or the other two heros’
name did not mention in the calender.the veteran actor cum
politician from tamilnadu m.g.r is a malayalee.even his death
anniversary is not there in that calender.
rafi saab died 30 years back.still his music cd’s are in
big demand.once i had been to an internet cafe to copy some
of the rafi saab’s songs to my mobile handset in my native
place.before me there was a guy who happeneds to be a
truck driver.malayalam songs were copying for him and he
was telling to the boy who is doing the copying “if you have
rafi songs that also a must” i looked at him.he was a poor as
well as uneducated guy.that is the magic of rafi saab.
people who are criticizing rafi saab should see even poor
people are at their best for rafi saab.a porter in alappuzha
is conducting rafi night every 31st july.he even built a
concrete bus shed in the name of “mohammed rafi saab”.
any person in any form of public life can dream like this
to get the affection and love?the poor man who is borrowing
money to conduct rafi night only once had seen rafi saab
while performing a live programme in cochin from far away.
he could not utter a word with rafi saab. even from where he
got the inspiration to do the things for rafi saab which is
beyond his capability?
Ahmed kutty ji
The link appears to be problematic. It is not opening even in my super fast computer. Try this link
http://www.gurgaonlife.com/editorial/funds-raised-in-aid-of-handicapped-kids-tributes-to-legendary-playback-singer-ghantasala-in-us-cities.html
Dear Ahamed kutty ji,
You claim rafi ji is remembered at many places whereas ghantasala is remembered only in andhra.
Here is the news link, which states 2010 ghantasala aradhanostavalu celebrated in United states of America – this is in year 2010 – after 37 years of his demise – tributes to legendary playback singer ghantasala.
http://www.gurgaonlife.com/…/funds-raised-in-aid-of-handicapped-kids-tributes-to -legendary-playback-singer-ghantasala-in-us-cities.html – Cached
If the link does not open, I request you to please copy the same in URL above and it will open.
Now please comment dear kutty ji.
Abhishek ji, – 2584
You have posted some old posts and in those posts I liked the following para extremely well and which is hundred and to say thousand percent true. That is why even binu nair ji agreed wholeheartedly (one can see from his post) to the posts specified there.
“i can say that Rafi sahab represents the state of a cloudless sky on a full moon night when there is a soft breeze & Ghantasaala garu represents the state of a cloudless sky on a new moon night with billions & billions of twinkling stars smiling at us.
both these states are mindblowing.”
Mr. Ramakrishna, the author of above quotation has quoted it with absolute brilliance – hats off to this man.
I am from kerala and it is a fact there are so many keralites
are die hard fans of rafi saab who born and brought up
thousands of miles away.it was easy to come to know
about rafi saab and his songs.as lataji told rafi saab can
make people to say wah – wah when they hear his songs
even if they do not know hindi or urdu.people of kerala
started to hear raif saab in early 1958.the famous rafi
bakth mohamed parvezji from cochin was telling that
there was rafi saab’s stage show for the marriage of his
parents in 1958 in cochin.
in my childhood the only way to hear the songs of rafi saab
was vivdha bharathi or radio cylon.the attraction of rafi saab’s
songs as well as personality is extra ordinary.i came to
know about gantasalji only after start visiting this divine site
eventhough he was near to us.so it is the greatness of rafi
saab which nobody can dream of it.there was a programme
about rafi saab in a malayalam channel (kairali channel) for
one year and so many musicians and other personalities attened
and put hteir comment about rafi saab.can we think
a programme about gantasalaji other than andhra pradesh
by a regional channel.that is the greatness of rafi saab.
after the death of rafi saab, there was musical competetion
every 31st july in calicut.can we dream such a thing about
gantasalaji in any part of india other than his state?
i have great respect about gantasalji,yesudasji spb ji etc.
but if we see the over all qualities of rafi saab nobody is
there to come near to him.
Nirval desai – 2578 contd… some other very interesting posts.
murthy Says:
November 2nd, 2007 at 8:03 pm
Hello all favourite rafian friends specially binu nair ji of rafi foundation along with all other fans and music analysts and lovers
I was really astonished to see this ghantsala and rafi comparison in the past 5 to 6 pages viz., many people quoting different versions and some balanced individuals quoting both of them as equal legends (including myself). To know the reality, out of curiosity and enthusiasm, i adopted a different technique, altogether different and generally beyond comprehension of human minds which I am describing here. My request is that kindly do not misunderstand and ridicule me since I have tried a new technique which if all of you read will appear quite interesting.
I have approached a reputed astrologer with the horoscopes of both rafi sahab and ghantasala ji (based on their date of birth i.e 24th Dec. 1924 & 4th Dec. 1922 – derived from google. com and their related websites) for analysing their talents. I am summarising hereunder the conclusions of the astrologer.
a. Both the horoscopes have influence of beneficial planet jupiter and mercury prominent in relation to the 2nd house (ruling voice) thus establishing melodious voices for both.
b. Rafi sahab has a mahapurusha yoga with reference to 2nd house making him famous globally even in western countries, whereas ghantasala ji has a rajayoga involving the 2nd house (ruling voice) making him famous and expert in music at the regional level.
c. The planet associated with music namely venus is strongly associated with 2nd house in case of ghantasala, whereas in case of rafi sahab sun assumes prominence. This indicates, the classical depth and training in music is rigorous and exemplary in case of ghantasala than rafi sahab.
d. Both the horoscopes have the 8th house and planet of longevity damaged thus giving rise to short life (53 for ghantasala ji and 56 for rafi sahab)
Just see this post of a hindusthani musician
khan Says:
December 8th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
Gani sahab, alekum salam,
Thank you very much for the link and song. I am a hindusthani musician with a small experience of only 35 plus years. I have seen many concerts of many hindusthani musicians and rafi sahab is one of my favourite hindusthani singer.
Ref. your post 608 , I have carefully heard the shiva shankari song here by ghantasala thrice and his voice range. I am not able to stop acknowledging the wonderful presentation by this south indian legend. With my experience, I can say that the song is based on the darbari kannad rag, and during my life time I have not heard anybody rendering the rag in such perfection as ghantasala sahab did. Not even rafi sahab could render in such perfection as ghantasala sahab did (for instance o duniya ke rakhwale from baiju bawra film in the rag). In this song, ghantasala has touched the top ni note in the top range (no bollywood song or rafi sahab song has been composed in that top range and it is very difficult to sing there) and in the same way the lowest dha note in the lower range with ease and comfort and shifting notes with complete clarity which is possible only for a singer (like ghantasala sahab) with complete command over a rag.
The speciality of the legend in this song is without sacrificing his carnatic style he has created a hindusthani sensation thus mixing the blend of both styles and which is possible only for a gifted and creative singer. I feel in my humble experience even the great rafi sahab has not reached that level in singing telugu songs because he sounds only hindusthani but could not sound the carnatic style. (I have heard rafi sahab’s telugu songs)
Mr. gani, the voice, highpitch, clarity and command over rag are in complete harmony and perfection by ghantasala and full 100 marks to him. I have never heard such song in my life and perhaps bollywood or rafi sahab has no such type of song to their credit. This point will be completely agreed by hindi fans of rafi sahab also after they hear this shiva shankari song by ghantasala in post 608 (live song please)
I request, binu nair ji and other hindi friends, to be secular and without prejudice kindly listen to the song in post 608 and I fully guarantee that you might not have heard such song in your lifetime. I being a musician, am forced to acknowledge this, despite being a great rafi fan, because as a musician I have to do justice to the correct musician. Pl. don’t mistake me, but in this particular song, I have to give credit to ghantasala sahab ( you too have to give after you hear him)
Gani sahab, the great rafi sahab is popular for singing romantic numbers also with perfection. Could you kindly provide some songs of now great ghantasala sahab (in my opinion) which has a romantic effect akin to rafi sahab. I hope he certainly has because ghantasala sahab talent i have seen in his shiva shankari number. My full congratulations also to the music composer of that song.
I think the actor there is n t rama rao and he has also done a superb action. Congratulations to him also.
Finally binu nair ji (your post pl. 609), I am an elderly man with 55 plus years. I feel that you will change your opinion of the word second as stated in your message after you hear shiva shankari song in post 608, my request is whatever your opinion may be, please hear once the song here (you wil hear again once you hear it specially the last 1 minute in the song) and post your views with open and pure conscience. I am also a great rafi fan and man with hindusthani knowledge pl. you may kindly note.
Other telugu writers specially ramakrishna and murthy sahab, I fully concur with your views and specially want to thank you for having introduced such great legend.
2579 – anil cherian ji,
I appreciate the facts in your post. In fact, to speak the truth, I am not a expert musician like you. I just mentioned 14 notes for o duniya ke rakhwale based on one Mr. Khan’s (a hinduthani musician with 35 years experience) post in this forum earlier and in kishore forum, wherein he mentioned that rafi’s above song is composed only in 2 octaves i.e. 14 notes whereas ghantasala’s songs are composed in much higher notes than rafi’s songs.
Nirval desai – 2578 – So now you are at point, copying some good old posts. Why not refer other posts ? I am giving such posts here, including the post of dear Binu nair ji – leader of rafi foundation.
vasu Says:
August 27th, 2007 at 10:44 am
Friends,
The topic has become quite interesting one. I am a telugu person & I wish to give my personal and humble views on this discussion on Ghantasala Vs. Rafi, both acclaimed to be great singers. I am well trained in classical carnatic music and equally conversant with hindi songs also since I have studied in Kendriya Vidyalaya from Hyderabad and with all humility I feel that I am eligible to comment since I feel I possess some knowledge with regard to music as well as both languages. I have done sufficient research on both singers by comparing their number of many type of songs and I personally feel that at least in a narrow & thin range Ghantasala scores over rafi. I will substantiate this with the following examples. I feel friends can give patient reading to these points.
1. Question of versatility & talent: Ghantasala was not only a singer in telugu language but he also sang tamil and kannada songs with excellent command, clarity and melody in those languages. Even in a telugu film panduranga mahatyam, compositions were in Hindi and Marathi, which ghantasala rendered with perfection. On the other hand, you yourself will agree that Rafi could not do proper justice to telugu songs. Hear Ghantasala singing Bhagavad Gita in sanskrit and you feel as if Lord Krishna is talking. Such was his talent in singing in different languages. Besides he was a leading Music Director as stated by some of our friends.
2.Being a musician, I have observed Ghantasala singing some famous ragas such as Sankarabharanam, bilahari etc. carnatic ragas, and siva sankari and some Bhakta jayadeva songs in hindusthani styles which are quite exemplary and beautiful. His talent (perhaps due to his majestic voice) perhaps rendered beauty to those ragas. Even accomplised carnatic classical singers could not do justice to the ragas which appear quite attractive when ghantasala sings. Hear ghantasala singing Manikya Veena in Mahakavi Kalidasu at a high pitch and compare rafi with him. You will yourself decide. I have carefully heard rafi ji singing Madhuban me radhika nache re. Compare the same with Nee Madhu Murali song from Bhakta Jayadeva of Ghantasala which is more majestic when you concentrate on the raga and music.
3. As our friends abserved, Hear Hayi hayiga amani from telugu suvarna sundari sung by ghantasala and the same song sung by rafi and lata in hindi suvarna sundari. The sung was first sung by ghantasala and subsequently sung by rafi. It was told that Music Director Adi Narayana Rao stated that rafi himself claimed that despite numerous practice, he is not able to sing and do justice akin to ghantasala and requested adi narayana rao to twist the versions in the song in a more comfortable way and this was done. You can compare both of these songs and you will yourself decide.Not an exaggeration but a fact. Similarly Rafi ji first sang chal ud jaa re panchi in film bhabhi, the same was sung by ghantasala subsequently as paya ninche o chiluka in telugu film kuladaivam which I say is more melodious and in high pitch and beautiful. Rafi ji himself commemorated ghantasala on this. This was reported in Eenadu telugu newspaper one day.
4. Ghantasala was adept in singing slokas and padyams ( a unique versions in dramatic style) where he is incomparable especially when singing in special ragas such as sankarabharanam, bilahari etc. The ragas appear so beautiful when heard in his voice. Perhaps instruments may also not render beauty to such ragas.
5. Last but not the least is the bhava factor i.e. feeling one should get when one hears a song. Hear ghantasala’s devotional songs; it appears as if a great devotee himself is singing; hear his tragedy and emotional songs; it appears a person in great tragedy is himself singing; hear his comedy songs and it can be clearly made out that a comedian is singing and so on. Hear his song siva sankari and note the talent and devotion. This is in hindustani style and note the speed and high pitch in the song. That is all.
As some our friends stated, it is beautiful, I repeat the same words of my friends here:
People are able to compare rafi ji with kishore kumar etc. But it is not an exaggeration to say that no body can compare anybody with Ghantasala even till today. Such is his majestic voice. As stated by P B Srinivas, leading singer of south that Ghantasala’s voice is Kanchu Kantha, meaning the impregnable voice. The famous hindusthani singer raghunath panigrahi has sung with ghantasala in the telugu fim jayabheri in song Madi Sarada Devi and you can yourself decided the strength in the voice of ghantasala and his concentration and doing justice to the kalyani Raga.
I am an equal admirant of rafi ji, whose songs give immense pleasure when heard, no doubt about it but i again feel that rafi ji can do full justice in medium and slow ranges but in high pitches and in bhava factor he falls back behind ghantasala.
Any how both are great singers and enjoy both voices at all times
These are my humble views. Readers can listen to above songs which are freely available these days in internet and give their views pl. Hope it is an intersting discussion.
RAMAKRISHNA Says:
September 2nd, 2007 at 11:00 pm
ref post- 482, binu jee
i have not taken this issue personal. i request you pls dont take that way.
your post – 473 you have mentioned Rafi Sahab excells in all languages. he has rendered marvellous in hindi while his mother tongue is panjabi. i agree with you my dear friend binu jee. i love you for this view of yours as I am an ardent pujari of Rafi Sahab since my very childhood.
but in your way of comparison i found that you are putting your opinion that apple excells orange.
i can say that Rafi sahab represents the state of a cloudless sky on a full moon night when there is a soft breeze & Ghantasaala garu represents the state of a cloudless sky on a new moon night with billions & billions of twinkling stars smiling at us.
both these states are mindblowing.
binus2000 Says:
September 4th, 2007 at 10:16 am
Dear Vasu ji and Ramkrishna ji:
I agree with your points and look forward to listening the
great songs of ghantasala master in the days to come. Our country
has produced the greatest talents and we are fortunate to have
born in this great era.
binu nair.
post 2582 Maha Devikaji. please do not even think of leaving this forum just because a few do not subscribe to your views. you can read the other articles on this great websites and please do continue to post your valuable comments. on my part, i too have not been sending any comments, until this one, for nearly an year now on this thread as the same rhetoric is being dished out in different fashion and in different names.
A S MURTY
SECRETARY
RAFI FOUNDATION,
HYDERABAD
To my very sweet friend @Narain!
By your recent comments, you have infact conquered my heart and many other Muhammad Rafi Sahab’s fans. I really really loved your comments, otherwise i previously just wanted to leave this forum forever. People may not like his name as mentioned by one of the friend in recent comment, but there is no second-view about Rafi’s singing abilities.
May such impartiality come in other music lovers. Everything looks yellow to a jaundiced eye, that is all i want to say.
Regarding the notes Rafiji attained in O, Duniya Ke Rakhwale, Aye Muhabbat Zindabaad, and other high-piched songs, it is a fact known to so many specialists that he had attained those heights which no one ever did and what was humanly possible. Rafi Sahib was, is and always be the greatest singer of Hindustan, if somebody objects, i don’t care from now onwards.
Maha
This is to dear Abhishek…
Iam a common man listening to music since ages and find that Rafi Sahab is the most melodious and versatile playback singer in HFM….
I have heard Ghantasala garu many times being a pucca south indian and find him the best in Telugu film songs you may call it TFM..
Why compare and waste time on high or low octaves.. Both have sung the best songs in their respective fields..
If Mahadevika and other music lovers like Rafi Sahab then so be it.. why are you bringing the subject of Ghantasala garu and comparing like 2 legends..
In this forum dedicated to Rafi sahab please discuss about his greatness without comparing with others.. period..
In a site dedicated to Ghantasala garu please discuss about his greatness.. thats all
Kindly do not try to directly or indirectly hurt Rafi devotees..
Jai Rafi sahab
Narayan
Lata, ghantasla, kishore kumar, sp bala subramunium, yesudas,mannaday, mahindra kapoor, hemant kumar and many more, are all greater singers than one singer, rafi.
You know why, because his name sounds so different from all the others. People might understand what i want to say and is not able to say exacly in real words. This is what i believe, otherwise i do not find anything wrong in rafi singing ability, his class, his stature.
i knew that south indian songs loving people will always lose against the greatest and most melodious hindi songs much better in technical aspects than telugu songs. Most of their songs are infact stolen tunes from hindi songs.
spbala subramunium, yesudasji and ghanta sala, or south indian singers much greater than these 3 mentioned singers will never be able to match the technical brilliance of hindi(hindustani) songs and singers, nobody can ever produce songs against the 3 songs i gave as a challenge to south-indian music fans.
They are indeed plating gimmics. One say that a south-singer sung in 18,19 notes while a hindi singer sung in 14 notes. The other backs him up to wrongly’accuse’ their singers some renowned singers.
We hindi people only know spbala, yesudas, because they have sung some great songs in their pathetic voices. These songs only are remembered or acknowledged by few as their melody was outstanding, and the hardwork of hindi music directors, otherwise very very few people have only heard of somebody by the name of ghantasala. He was so “patriotic” that he never have sung even a single song in hindi language, what a pitty.
Then they quote another great hindi song of mughaleazam, i am not mentioning the name of the singer purposely as these people are jealous of that greatest singer of hindustan due to some cultural, ethnic, and relegious reasons. these people do not like his name even. about the song ‘zindabaad, aye muhabbat zinda baad”, they give comments as the hindi music lovers are some fools. they say that although the song sounds like in high pitch but actually it is not. what rubbish. they give so tecnical expertees on hindi songs as they are some gods of classical music.
In their comments, it is so obvious that how much they hate hindi music, its music directors and its singers. Pitty on them, how can they be called hindustani, they are spreading their poison here and nobody is willing to stop them. their comments are rediculous, the least to say.
They must remain in their, “inferiority-complexes’, by keeping narration of false-facts. Like i said before, the experts are also south-experts, so obviously they will try their best to glorify their singers against the true giants of hindi music.
i only prey to god that he give them some indepth, knowledge and regard for hindi music which is indeed a real hindustani music.
they are advised to create their own website and buzz off from this great site. their false allegations must not find their places here. if they really think that they are right then they must stop praising their singers and bring along some of their songs against mine, sung by pure hindi singers.
Abhishekji,
I listened 2 many versions of the ‘duniya ke rakhwale’ song available- the original sound track and the live concerts. You are right, the sound track version covers 14 notes. The lowest is middle ‘sa’ (absolute note, not with respect to the scale) and the highest is top ‘ni’. The song taps the higher octave strength of Rafi sahab but not the lower one. I don’t think you will have any issue in admitting that Rafi sahab, at that point of time, could go down by another 3 full notes. So, again we reach the 17 note range. Ghantasalaji, I suppose, could go a little further deep than he did in ‘siva sankari’ song which makes his range something like 18-19 notes. So it’s only a matter of 1-2 full notes and not the 3 octave Vs 2 octaves you were trying to state.
I wasn’t trying to compare singers in ‘Kuhu kuhu’ song. What I wanted to say is that Rafi sahab would have sung a hypothetical ‘siva sankari’ song in Hindi- in his own manner- As he interpreted darbari in ‘duniya ke rakhwale’ or maulkans in ‘man tarpat’. Some Ustads may not have liked it much but the commoners would have lapped it up -as they did the above-mentioned songs and many others like ‘madhuban mein radhika’, ‘kuhu kuhu’ (Yes, it is much loved even in Kerala) etc. And what is this about ‘even’ Manna Dey? Manna Dey is a terrific singer and can be compared favorably with Ghantasalaji as a classical singer and definitely better in terms of voice and filmy emotive singing.
I FULLY AGREE AND DO SECOND ONE OF THE COMMENT AS IT IS BASED ON FACTS;
“b.venkatadri Says:
August 25th, 2007 at 11:15 am
Friends,
I am just seeing this Rafi vs. Ghantasala discussion. Let me give my take on the subject.
I am a Telugu peson, who is past 50, who was born and brought up on Ghantasala’s telugu songs along with Rafi Saab’s Hindi songs!
All I can say is this. Ghantasala is a very great singer. Like Rafi Saab, he too has excellent voice range and is equally comfortable at extreme low and extreme high pitches. Under some of the greatest MDs of Telugu, he had rendered hundreds of excellent, ever-lasting songs. What is more, he himself was one of the leading MDs of Telugu too!
But, on balance, Rafi Saab is at least 2 to 3 notches higher than Ghantasala as a singer. Ghantasala is versatile, but not as versatile as Rafi Saab. In voice modulation and bringing in ‘vocal gimmicks’ (also commonly known as Rafi Saab’s Harkatein/Adaayen), Rafi Saab clearly scores over Ghantasala!
Bringing into this topic Rafi Saab’s Telugu songs is irrelevant, because my above comparision is based on Rafi Saab’s Hindi songs with Ghantasala’s Telugu songs. I belive Rafi Saab’s Telugu songs, that way, are no great shakes! Even Rafi Saab had sung his less than 10 Telugu songs quite reluctantly and because of utmost pressure from NTR and his brother-in-law, who was the producer of Bhale Tammudu (1969).
Incidentally, someone earlier was saying that Rafi Saab had sung Telugu songs only after Ghantasala expired. It is not true. Rafi Saab had sung his first Telugu songs for Bhale Tammudu (1969), even as Gahntasala was alive!”
In sum, Ghantasala is very great, but Rafi Saab is even greater!
challenge no:3
———————————————————————–
singer: ustad bade ghulam ali khan
song : aye naa baalum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huhf7xBCIU4&feature=related
Challenge No:2 for Ghantasala Fans.
You wrongly accuse your guruji of some master of classical singing.
So here is my challenge No 2.
Plz bring a pure classical song as this greatest song of hindi film:
Plz don’t lose heart if you lose.
—————————————————————————-
Singer Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan
song:Prem Jogan Ban Ke
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm-2sW-bRFM
Himesh Rishamya is a better music director and singer than yesudas, spbalasubramunium, ghantasala and all other mentioned and not-mentioned south (so called) greats.
All hindi songs are better in technical brilliance, melody, variety than the south- songs.
The south-music fans are suffering from inferiority complex.
That is the reason, they are narrating some stories about the greatness of their south music and singers against hindi music. these are not facts but fictions. the examples the have been quoting comes from south singers, south music directors and south-experts. If i am a south indian residence, obviously i will say that south music is better. people know those tactics, all rubbish and baseless.
The fact remains that Hindu music, its musicians, and singers are far better than southern counterparts.
From now onward i’ll be linking hindustani songs one by one and these dreamers must put their songs, whatever singer they like, as a competition, and let the listeners decide as who wins, i can also write such baseless things all day long. the history the use to mention is written by their own highly biased historians, and the facts they quote have been delivered by their own experts.
O.K they must maintain descency now and answer my challenge (i too have strong objection to the dirty comments by mr narain shankar and some others, the comments serve no purpose except to defame true lovers of hindi-music.
I am new to this form, so here is my first challenge:
—————————————————————————————–
1.Singer: Kishore Kumar, Song: Mere Naina Sawan Bhado,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6KsYP-6Ml0
Abhishek ji and Anil cherian ji,
Southern film music was fortunate enough – after the golden/unique era of ghantasala, they had another set of entertaining musicians in the form of spb, k j yesudas, jayachandran etc. “to meet the modern film industry requirements” in their respective languages, with spb having more contribution. Hindi film music, probably i think, only kumar sanu and sonu nigam were the prolific singers, but the golden era of hindi film has not been achieved again.
anil cherian ji,
I think after the era of ghantasala, the era of k j yesudas had technical brilliance in the south film music than others. In hindi, no much importance has been laid on such technical brilliance after rafi had passed away. Whatever little technical brilliance the hindi film industry had, I think saigal, rafi likes could do some type of justice as compared to other hindi singers.
Anil cherian ji,
I am with you for your post 2569
for 2570, I was told o duniya ke rakhwale is in 14 notes and not 15 notes. I think you will be better person for me to clarify on this. Coming to imagination – kuhu kuhu – lata was really better than rafi, it is a fact. And in telugu ghantasala was clearly ahead of rafi. Not imaginations, since they are realities and proved.
Abhishekji,
Low ‘dha’ to high ‘ni’ is only 16 notes, not 17. Rafi sahab’s ‘duniya ke rakhwale’ in its original form covers 15 notes -‘dha’ to ‘dha’. Rafi sahab used to scale it lower in his concerts and add an extra ‘rakhwale’ which makes the span of 16 notes- same as ‘siva sankari’. ‘Man tarpat’ covers 15 notes as well. So what’s the big deal (speaking of vocal range) about ‘siva sankari’?
Speaking about ‘imagination’, is ‘kuhu kuhu’ an imagination? I’m sure you would have high lighted ‘hayi hayiga’ as another un-replicable song if ‘kuhu kuhu’ never happened.
A request to the administrator
———————————–
Can we have some mechanism here that ensures that posts crossing the limit of basic human decency don’t find a place here?
Anil cherian ji,
I am aware the lowest note is da in lower octave and the highest is ni in higher octave in siva sankari – 17 notes – composition is in three octave, but rafi’s songs i referred are only in two octaves, but sadly some people take rafi’s songs to be in higher pitch.
“However he would have interpreted such songs (if offered to him) in his own way and it would have appealed to a lot of people.”
This is only an imagination, the issue which I have dealt in my previous post.
Maha devika ji,
I respect your views, you are certainly different from others, that is why I felt happy to have musical discussion with you. There appears to be some interpretative confusion here. let me clear that.
few points ms. devika ji,
You said,
“Ustads say rafiji and ghantasala both could sing nicely, equally in highest notes”.
“I also believe that Muhammad Rafi could sing in as high notes as possible humanly”
These are just imaginations. See, there is a lot of difference between the words “could sing” as against “really had sung”
The “really had sung” part is supported in the form of evidences in forms of songs whereas “could sing ” are only imaginations (such statements even by ustads also cannot be proved unless songs are produced in reality). That is where ghantasala fans catch, no rafi fan could produce songs of rafi as was requested by ghantasala fans in terms of high notes which ghantasala has sung. It is a different matter for statements “rafi would also have sung” or the “hindi music directors did not compose such numbers” – all these are just imaginations and not realities. Unless it is proved, it cannot be believed. When facts are talked it shoud be supported by evidences.
Ms devika ji, not only you, there were other musicians with experience over 30 years in hindusthani music in this forum as well as in other forum who had discussed high notes of rafi, but never declared him the greatest. Rafi’s high pitch songs (believed to be the highest pitch sung by rafi) zindabad zindabad and o duniya ke rakhwale etc. – were discussed thread bare in terms of notes in which the songs were composed and it was concluded that those songs are composed only in 2 octave ranges (rafi fans poorly believe that they are very high pitch songs, in reality – they are not according to musicians). Even manna dey could have easily sung those numbers if we go by the “could sing” definition. I hope you get my point.
Abhishekji,
Neither ‘siva sankari’ nor ‘syamala dandakam’ span 21 notes. The former spans about 16-17 notes; I can tell you the highest and the lowest notes if you want me to. The latter covers even lesser, probably 13-14 notes. Rafi sahab wouldn’t be able to replicate all that Ghantasalaji did; but not because of the vocal range issue rather because of the technical complexity. However he would have interpreted such songs (if offered to him) in his own way and it would have appealed to a lot of people.
One person, so many attributes,
Bessurra singer, Patha huwa dhool, non-singer, bathroom singer, pathetic singer, crow-singer, frog-singer, nauseating-singer, crying singer, can’t sing high notes, low notes or even middle notes, flat-singer, dwarf-singer, ughh singer etc etc, guess who, poor student of singing a singer by the name of Ghantasala.
Another one,
God of hindustani mucic, awaz ka farishta, the most talented, most versatile, most amazing, most prolific singer, institute of singing, university of play-back singing, most melodious, most sweet voiced, honey-dipped voice, heavenly voice, divine voice, singer with the most high pitch singing, lajawab singer, velvety voice, unparalleled skills and versatility, all music professional’s most favorite singer, most versatile singer, most complete singer, singer with most recvorded songs till his death, most expressive singer, true maestro of hindi music, most humble person, singer who couls sing any song, master of classical and semi classical songs, and praises go on and on, gues who, the legendry muhammad rafi.
now its very obvious that Rafi was the beszt ang ghantasala is the worst.
History and facts prove that Muhammad Rafi is the best singer of hindustan, and people still are asking the question,
‘by the way, who is ghantasala?’
Maha devika ji,
I was quite clear in my post for not letting to develop any mis-understanding between us. I am not a qualified musician, but was only putting some points made out by qualified musicians in these forums. Just that. I had made it abundantly clear that rafi was the best in hindi playback singing and not in indian playback singing. Why ghantasala, even I had mentioned that KJ Yesudas has a superior range to rafi ? So, there is no partiality from my side. Hope the issue is clear now.
It is really difficult to say who was great : Arjuna or Karna in the mahabharata, as points can be proved for stating one as greater than the other, and many discussions can be found on these two characters in the mahabharatha, saying that one is greater than the other for various reasons. Same thing the analysis can be made here also and no misunderstanding should crop up.
2561 – sippy
OK you say In 1982 – s p bala (you do not know his name also properly and start writing on him) was never famous, you call him as famous- which musicians jury – if it really happened, it must have been some gathering of “nuts like you” to decide on who was the great singer. It is as if great musicians and musical juries of india has no other work except to find out who was the greatest singer. Why are you crying ? No fan of any other singer is crying, for your information, I am not a ghantasala fan, be clear, just only a music lover, you should know that. Only some “nut rafi fans” are crying here like crows, specially like you and your friend, by knowing that some facts unknown to you are coming out and which you are not interested to hear. You do not know how to write proper english and to pronounce musical terminologies in their way, you are trying to comment on octaves and notes, this clearly confirms your ignorance. Just do not try to bluff dear and have your work pl.
2561 – sippy
In 1982 – s p bala (you do not know his name also properly and start writing on him) was never famous, you call him as famous- which musicians jury – if it really happened, it must have been some gathering of “nuts like you” to decide on who was the great singer. It is as if great musicians and musical juries of india has no other work except to find out who was the greatest singer. Why are you crying ? No fan of any other singer is crying, for your information, I am not a ghantasala fan, be clear, just only a music lover, you should know that. Only some “nut rafi fans” are crying here like crows, specially like you and your friend, by knowing that some facts unknown to you are coming out and which you are not interested to hear. You do not know how to write proper english and to pronounce musical terminologies in their way, you are trying to comment on octaves and notes, this clearly confirms your ignorance. Just do not try to bluff dear and have your work pl.
My Dear Abhishekji and very respectful light music loverji!
First of all i shall very sincerely thank all those sweet comments that include yours and others that were so appreciative of some of my feelings which i have so far shared in this great forum. What can a young girl like me, say anything infront of learned people like you and so many others in this form. I am also very much irritated by some very nasty comments, which in my opinion happened as one of the singer of people’s choice had been undermined to raise the status of the other. This must not happen.Everybody’s liking and must be appreciated but we must keep our dislikings to ourselves rather than emphasizing more on what we do not like. When we hit a singer of other’s choice, than its very obvious that in shere retaliation, the opponent will try to hit back with or without supporting arguments, or i would say many comments which are far from the truth. I also want to clarify one thing that i said about me was that i am a singer of teen age and like to sing and is learning classical singing, i wana add here that i have been singing and learning classical since i was 6-7 years of age and it has been a few years now since i am into this great field. Somebody has called me a musician which i am not. Yes i said that by now i can judge that which singer sings better. I was also surprised after hearing so many songs of great names, that even at times, i feel few of those even lost tones or notes even after the final recorded sound.This is my feelings and i might be wrong.
I want to very humbly accept one thing that as an artist i am also extremely sensitive girl. The fact is, after hearing the songs of almost all the top names(and also of singers not very renowned) of both the south as well as hindi music, i finally put my finger on one name which i considered to have qualified to be by most favorite singer, as i already mentioned that i know both the languages very well. The singer is the one and only Muhammad Rafi. I have all the great praises and admiration for the singing sensation Ghantasala Guruji, who has sung so many beautiful songs as greatest gifts for his fans all over the world and people who even could not understand the south-language.But my personal favorite has always been none other than rafiji. It was not that i just happened to like his voice. He had been the singer who has always surprised me with his tremendous versatility. Ever since i have been hearing his songs, i have found a better song one after another. In my initial days i would believe after hearing a good song so wonderfully rendered by rafiji, i would decide that yes this is the best song of his, but whenevr i use to listen to his new song i waould be amased that i was wrong,, another song would catch my attention. One after another i heard yet another version of his singing. much has been said and written about his singing and i may not be able to add something new. But really, i have greatest admiration for his singing abilities always. One of his song which i was listening to, yesternight and i was amased that rafi sahab was singing in so low notes that indeed he sung the whole song whispering. i tried to sing it and found out that it happened to be such a difficult song. One can not maintain the breath control, the melody while singing that kind of song and just look at rafi sahab, not only was he singing with utmost ease, but also was he maintaining the melody, surr, taal, ley from the start till the very end. I have never heard such a song from the vocals of any other singer. People say that mannaday was a great classical singer, fully agreed. But the sweeteness of rafi sahab voice, just amazing. It is true that he would always sing a song to greater heights ever imagined by the music director himself.
I also want to mention here that being so sensitive a girl, i must admit that i was very much disturbed by a few comments in which the narrator tried to undermine the capability of rafiji by saying that he could not attain such higher pitches which ghantasala would attain. As i was upset, as i was not convinced i consulted my guru and ustad and many others, who said that the allegations were just baseless, and rafiji and ghantasala both could sing nicely, equally in highest notes. Inface the plus-point(according to most of them) about Rafi was that his voice would sound even more sweeter, the higher he would go in notes in any song. His another amazing ability was that he would go from lower to highest notes with such a smoothness that the listener were surprised to find him in those high octaves and at the other instance, he would very smoothly and effortlessly came back to the lower notes.muhammad rafi was the singer who was known for his highest pitch singing all over the world, how can i singer whose fame is considered one fact, is so wrongly been denied by the commentators.I also believe that Muhammad Rafi could sing in as high notes as possible humanly.(If some people believe that another singer could have sung better than rafiji, than i can not do anything about that person(as i can not convince everybody, and i do not intend to).
Whatever anybody say, but to me Muhammad Rafi was the best singer of hindustan, and will always remian so. And i’ll repeat that it is not that one fine morning i believed in that, i have listened to his songs very deeply and judged his singing and found him to be the most prolific singer of Hindi Cinema.He is a gift of God to the people who love music, all over the world. I have even heard a japanese singer singing one of muhammad rafi’s classical ghazals.
To conclude my comment i will like to add a last word, that i am a very sensitive girl and if my emotions are again and again targetted by some people narrating some wrong facts against my most favorite singer, than i will have no choice than to leave this forum. Nobody else will thereafter suffer except me, having lost that great forum through which i am able to share few of my innocent comments.
All of you, take a good care of you, your friends, your relatives and your dear ones and spread love and happiness, not hatred as there are so many evils and hardships in this cruel world and God only like those who makes other people pleased and joyfull, signing off, its one of the greatest Muhammad Rafiji admirer, maha.
Ghantasala fans. You know that there is a singer. A legend of hindi cinema of 40’s and thereafter she went to pakistan, the singer which Lata considered her teacher in singing. She was Madam Noor Jahan. She would go to much more higher pitces with ease than any body even Ghantasala could ever think of. Merely praises by his fans, and some so called popular music deirectors of south(Yes south only), will always praise the singer of their region and language. They have just made a person some god which he has never been. If this is the criteria than Rahat Fateh Ali Khan of Pakistan usually sing very easily in 4,5 octaves, he even went to 6 octaves on several times. Even Sonu Nigam has recently sung a song in which he reached notes as high as 30.
You know that a jury of classical singers of Hindi and south gathered in Bombay in 1982 to establish as who is the greatest singer of hindustan and they included songs sung by many renowned singers, including Kishore Kumar, Ghantasala, Yesudas, SP Bala, Muhammad Rafi, Mannadayand many more. After hearing the songs in various modes, types, ragas, they unanimously concluded that Rafi was the most obvious winner in all types of songs. He hit the most high notes reaching 35 notes (7 Octaves).
I know that the ghanta fans are not going to admit this historical fact, and they will keep on making their singers, of south region sound taller than the hindi singers. I have asked so many music listeners at random, and i was astronished to know that even people hearing all types of music could not recognize any singer by the name of ghantasala. Most people asked me who is this new sala?
Actually south songs loving people think that ghantasala was some famous or so called good singer. I have heard the song Siva Sankari, what is the graeat deal about it. There is nothing special in that song as someone has already rightly said so. Any normal singer can sing it in a better way, and even in more higher notes than ghantasala. Both sp and yesudas has clearly mentioned on so many times that muhammad rafi sahab was the most versatile, most complete, most talented singer. They considered him their guru, not ghantasala. Why these people are beating the wrong bush. I am a persian and i can narrate so many different singers of the language who are far better than any south singer, may he be ghantasala, sp bala or yesudas or any body but i must say that no singer can match muhammad rafi sahab. He was a class of his own. somebody has mentioned 3 songs sung by different hindi singers and have asked ghantasala fans to bring his songs as good as these. Nobody has replied to that post. Thay only keep on telling lot of lies. Merely saying something without any proof is just futile effforts.
They will never succeed in the people believes that Rafi will always defeat their ununown singer in all types of songs, may it be high notes or low notes. They are just speculating and let them do this all the times. The fact will always remain a fact, and that is Muhammad Rafi songs are much higher in pitch, notes and octaves than ghantasala.Rafi was morew famous for his high pithed songs, while ghanta was never known for this. He would compose songs for himself according to his comfort leven and except some vibration, his voice had nothing special in it. In some songs he is trying to immitate mukesh, while in most the great mannaday, which he really could not. History says Muhammad Rafi is far better as a singer than ghanta in all aspects of singing. Let such people keep on crying for their singer, nobody will ever belief them.
Muhammad Rafi is the best singer of hindustan, and nobody can deny this fact. Now ghantasala fans , start weeping again as your singer has always been in his songs. He sing like a crow.
Mahadevika ji,
Your approach, posts and analysis are wonderful – much similar to many of the other classical musicians who have posted earlier in this forum as well as in kishore kumar forum. Kindly keep it up and pl. continue to enlighten music lovers with such beautiful posts. and as a friendly advise, please be careful of not getting into/of dealing with “intruders” as there might be trouble in dealing with such “nuts” and we music lovers would not like to see a music lover and musician like you convincing/getting in arguments with such “nuts” (for instance post 2555 – 56 here)
Abhishek ji and Mahadevika ji – for both
Mr. Roy here. Just wanted to share a truth with both of you. As I told in one of my previous posts, I came to know of ghantasala only in 2003 – how this happened, i wanted to share as this event had a link to mohd rafi ji. Requested wife to just find out from a telugu neighbour who ghantasala was, as I was told highly about ghantasala by my office colleague. On that day, while talking to a neighbour, a telugu family, she asked, who is ghantasala ? can you imagine what was the reply ? I was surprised to hear that. The neighbour lady replied only in one line – The mohammad rafi of the south is known as ghantasala. This should not be interpreted as superiority of rafi and likewise, it clearly means that as was rafi for hindi, so was ghantasala for the south. Why this importance ? Because, the 50’s and 60’s period in hindi and southern film playback singing rose to impeccable peaks never seen before and the without any doubt the most significant figures were rafi in hindi and ghantasala in the south during those times and who were responsible for such achievement. As rafi was responsible for rise of hindi playback singing to “golden heights” so was ghantasala responsible single handedly (as maha devika ji states) who made the southern film industry rise to such “golden heights” never seen before. K J yesudas ji, great musician of modern times, acknowledges this fact in one of his speeches, where in he categorically mentions that southern music achieved its golden recognition only due to ghantasala. One can clearly know that playback singing in hindi and south were never the same before or after (the period of 50’s and 60’s) – Such peak has never been achieved again.
Coming back and Going by above, One can just feel, how immense respect the telugu people have for mohd rafi ji (along with ghantasala -) and how rafi ji is admired by all people.
Post 2555-56 Mr. Swami , whatever name you may use.
You seem to be a “sick nut mentally’, I do not find any better word for you. You have criticised kishore kumar, mahendra kapoor, mukesh like anything, Please remember kishore kumar is remembered as a prolific singer of hindi films in 70’s and 80’s and his achievements speak of that. Just go and check up once with one good specialist – you need treatment in a good mental clinic.
Maha devika ji,
Forgot one point to put – lest some misunderstanding might arise. I was just mentioning the voice range factor and I believe that you, as a musician, would fully understand this and there is no intention to show any finger at any artist. Hope you understand this as a musician. I have clearly noted your post 2533, wherein fact, you state
Mahadevika ji, – 2533
“coming to ghantasala, he was a great musician, a well trained singer in classical music, had a sweet voice with lot of range. He used his immense talent as a great music director and extraordinary singing capability to sing the most beautiful songs in soth film and music industry. he sanf various versions of singing in his carreer and single handedly, rose the south-music to heights never seen before. He was inface the most prolific singer of telugu songs.”
I have great appreciations for you analysis maha devika ji.
Maha devika ji,
Rafi was indeed the best in hindi film playback singing – his touching of high notes was indeed far superior than any other playback singer in hindi . But many have opined ((specially musicians) that the high pitch songs of rafi extend only to two octaves i.e the song starts in second octave then goes to high pitch, which is actually not difficult to make it a high pich number – you as a musician can put this in a better way. The real point of challenge many musicians have put in this forum as well as other forum is that rafi really has not sung any composition in the 3 octave range i.e close to 21 notes in a song continuously – which in fact proves the low, medium and high pitch strength and a voice range for a singer – Going by the post of classical musicians rafi’s voice range extended at the maximum of 14-17 notes and his songs have been composed only in this range keeping the comfort of his voice in mind – the fact is all other singers had a range of even lower than 14-17 notes range and naturally rafi was superior in this range factor as compared to all other hindi singers as no other hindi singer had even that range of rafi. However, if comparison is made with other playback legends, ghantasala was clearly superior to rafi in terms of strength and voice, higher as well as lower notes (as you had already mentioned low notes) as his clear range was 3 octaves – 21 notes – his songs siva sankari, syamala dandakam etc. are clear examples of that, which rafi would never have able to attempt due to the sheer range factor of his voice. None can find any of rafi’s songs in a range of successive 21 notes – continuous 3 octave composition. Pl. do not treat this as comparison, but one need not feel disturbed or jealous about voice of ghantasala or his range, as he was gifted by god with such range and beauty in his voice. I think, only K J Yesudas has such range in the current trend of musicians – KJY’s range also appears to be superior to rafi.
Narain shankar and shankar narain swami – same post in two different names
Continue with the nonsense, if you say nothing will happen – ghantasala was clearly superior to rafi on technical as well as other terms – nothing is going to change this fact. Rafi cannot be made more greater and ghantasala lesser in any way – That has already happened and engolfed in history. None can change that. Your blah blah efforts are a sheer waste Mr. fake music intruder.
Yes, its right. just over-praising ghanta by anybody doesnot make him some great singer. Hearing sala i only can say,’ugghhhh’. One fact can never be engulfed by Ghanta Sala fans that Muhammad Rafi was a far superior singer than ghanta sala in all aspects of singing, the singer of their liking is just too small for the giant of playback singin, the one, the only, the legendry, the institute of singing, Muhammad Rafi Sahab, yes i second the above mentioned comment, That Rafi sahab was much greater a singer. Its not that people start comparing a paanwala, a chooran seller, a bathroom singer with the highest stature of Muhammad radi, that is not possible, it shows the low mentality of those people and rafi fans would always reject that rediculous comparisons ever, may it with ghanta or some sala, any body by tha name of kishore, the joker, not singer, the immitator mahindra, the besurra mukesh. Only Talat Mehmood was good.
One fact can never be engulfed by Ghanta Sala fans that Muhammad Rafi was a far superior singer than ghanta sala in all aspects of singing, the singer of their liking is just too small for the giant of playback singin, the one, the only, the legendry, the institute of singing, Muhammad Rafi Sahab, yes i second the above mentioned comment, That Rafi sahab was much greater a singer. Its not that people start comparing a paanwala, a chooran seller, a bathroom singer with the highest stature of Muhammad radi, that is not possible, it shows the low mentality of those people and rafi fans would always reject that rediculous comparisons ever, may it with ghanta or some sala, any body by tha name of kishore, the joker, not singer, the immitator mahindra, the besurra mukesh. Only Talat Mehmood was good.
Dear Music Loverji!
You have a sweet name indeed.
Please, don’t worry, ghantasala was also good at “low-notes”, ‘got it?’
My next comments will be detailed, as i am preparing for a weekend night music concert.
After convincing you that he was too good at low notes, I’ll now convince you that Muhammaf Rafi Guruji was equally tremendous in high-notes as well, and there has never been a singer like him.
His opponents admit it or not (due to reseons, i do understand).
I’ll always say, as i believe, and that is , Rafi was the best Hindustani-playback singers of all-times.
Dear Nikitaji,
It is so nice of you say so many appreciative things about the singer we all adore. It means a lot, coming as it is from a talented artiste.
I am a big admirer of the Hindustani music, although more inclined to light/ filmy semi-classical songs than the actual classical music. I am from the South and therefore very much exposed to the great musicians of the South as well as of the North. Sir Rafi is indeed very special to me and I have been listening to him even before I learned the Hindi language. Please keep on writing here. If you don’t mind, may I request you to post your version of ‘bhor bhaye panghat’ and ‘raina beeti jaaye’ in the net. Thank you.
Dear Maha Devikaji,
Thank you for the detailed reply. I went through all the videos that you linked and would like to thank you for taking the pains. In fact some of those songs aren’t very well known (to me at least). The 1946 song- which this site plays sometimes- is a revelation. How well Rafi sung it at a young age and how good he was at the low notes. Looking forward to your further posts.
I read it somewhere, want to share with people as well.
Mohammad Rafi The Man who never died..His parents gave him the name Mohammad Rafi. Dear friends names do reflect on your personality..
MOHAMMAD:
Mohammad is an Arabic word which came from the root word H-M-D. Hamd means the expression someone gives without even thinking, like Oh wow!, that is so beautiful!, or I am speechless! The person who has been extremely praised calls Mohammad..
RAFI:
Rafi is also an Arabic word which means holding high. We know that he was the man with great character and he held that greatness until he died. He is the one who has been praised a lot..He was one simple soul who was much above the factional and communal politics. By conferring Bharat Ratna on Mohammad Rafi posthumously, right signals will be sent to all the right-thinking people of this country.
Bharat Ratn is being given to the personalities related to the field of art and culture (music, literature etc.). It is being given posthumously also. The precedent to bestow this coveted award posthumously and to the people belonging to the field of Art & culture is already there. ..He was the biggest ambassador of this country in the field of Art & Culture (music), who has been adjudged as singer of the millennium. His contribution in spreading Indian music to outside world is phenomenal. Since this wonderful artist and a great human being (fakir/saint by nature) got (and is still getting) love from people of all the religions/faiths/practices/castes/creed/ gender and nationalities, it is earnestly felt that giving this long-awaited recognition to Rafi Saab will serve as a great binding force for the distanced communities.
This one-man music institution has given bread and butter to thousands of people. Today, twenty-nine years after his death, he is still a one-man Gharana. .He was a Muslim by birth. He regarded all the religions to be one, which he even asserted in many of his songs. In his songs, he sang everyone-Lord Ram, Lord Vishnu, Lord Krishn, Lord Shiv, Guru Nanak, Yeshu, Islamic devotions, Saint Kabir etc.. Despite being Muslim, counting of the Devotional songs/Bhajans and Patriotic songs rendered by him are far more than those by any other playback singer in the Indian Film Industry. He has worked for uniting the whole of India into a single entity by way of his songs sung in almost all the Indian languages, for people of all the faiths, castes, creeds etc. .A person of his caliber, contributions and qualities is the most deserving one.
Honouring Mohammad Rafi is honouring the humanity itself. In fact, the title Bharat Ratna would feel honoured to be bestowed upon to this truly great son of the soil. .Amongst the nominations for this prestigious Highest Civillian Award, his is the only nomination from the field of Art & Culture.
Talat Mahmood, Mukesh, Hemant Kumar and Manna Dey had been impelled — gradually by the turn of circumstances — to concede that Rafi’s was the universal voice that the industry recognised as the one with the spot box-office pullFrom Dilip Kumar to Dev Anand, from Rajendra Kumar to Shammi Kapoor, from Jeetendra to Dharmendra, from Sunil Dutt to Joy Mukerji, Rafi had been the cult voice. As Shanker-Jaikishan, then Laxmikant-Pyarelal and Kalyanji-Anandji, dominated the turnstiles, there could be no doubt about Rafi’s being number one. .Indeed Rafi had grown so bold by 1969 that he had fought, by then, a running royalty battle with Diva Lata Mangeshkar — before the Aradhana body-blow came to be delivered. Lata, recognising Rafi’s peer No 1 position by 1962-1963, had wanted this singer to back her in demanding a half-share from the 5 percent song royalty that the film’s producer conceded to select composers
Lata’s contention was that, once Rafi joined her in the battle, there was no way producers and music directors could deny this singing duo, reigning supreme by then, one-half share in that 5 percent song royalty to the composer. But Rafi — by this point charging the same Rs 5,000 for a song as Lata — took a diametrically opposite view